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Difference between revisions of "Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub"

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(Single signon)
(After that)
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[[Image:wikitravel-openid-login-soon.png]]
 
[[Image:wikitravel-openid-login-soon.png]]
 +
 +
I appreciate your detailed illustration. BTW I tried again and still had a problem:
 +
# Logged out from all language versions as well as shared:.
 +
# Logged in to shared: with the conventional method.
 +
# Went to [[:shared:Special:OpenIDConvert]], entered ja:User:Episteme and got successful conversion. Then I logged out.
 +
# Went to [[:shared:Special:OpenIDLogin]] and entered ja:User:Episteme. After entering my password I got "Your nickname is already in use" again.
 +
# Next time I tried to log in with OpenID, I got "Verification error".
 +
--[[User:Episteme|Episteme]] 13:39, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
  
 
==Categories==
 
==Categories==

Revision as of 17:43, 22 July 2006


The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'. Also, if you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the Mediawiki software, please post that on the Bug reports page instead.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

Archives

How to edit categories

Hi there,

I am new to Wikitravel Shared and tried it out by uploading a pic. It shows a location in Germany, but there is no category for Germany in Europe, not to talk of subcategories for the country. Is there a way I can change this? Best wishes Felix - 16/May/2006 20:08 GMT

Sorry, I had overseen that there is a Central Europe category. Only saw Greece under G (categories should be less confusing I think...). Still the question remains. Can I create categories and subcategories? Felix - 16/May/2006 20:14 GMT
And here I am again. Have found out how to edit and create subcategories. Have messed around with Europe a bit and Category:Ireland now has to be deleted (sorry for that), as I have included Western Europe (which includes the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain9 in the catefory list. I think I will make it to edit the Mediterranean countries tommorrow. So please delete that Ireland. Thanks! - Felix - 17/May/2006 20:11 GMT
Category deleted. Riggwelter 12:15, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

VFD

We need a vfd process. Image:Krakau01.jpg was copied from Wikipedia commons where it is erroneously tagged with a PD license. We've also had problems with the user who uploaded to WP Commons.

So now what? -- Cjensen 21:44, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

I tried to use a vfd template, but that didn't work either. Sapphire 22:01, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
Any templates use in /en (or any other language) will have to be created/copied in /shared to be used here. (I've copied the English Template:vfd, though it still needs an infrastructure to go behind it.)
As for process, I think images that are straightforward copyvios should be damn-near-speedy deleted (both here and over in the language sites). Unlike your typical article deletion where Opinions May Vary, an image that matches an image on a web site without a compatible license declaration is an open-and-shut case. It might be a good idea to require that the person tagging the image for deletion not be the one to carry that out, as a second-set-of-eyes precaution, but we don't need a bunch of people saying "Yup, that's a copyvio" over the course of several days before we can be sure we want to delete it. (And in a worst-case scenario where an image was wrongfully speedy-deleted because the submitter had actually dual-licensed it or whatever, it's easy to get the file back.) Handling copyvios quickly would also help point out to repeat copyright violators that what they're doing is unproductive, because they'd be more likely to notice the image disappearing if it happens promptly. To say nothing of better-securing Wikitravel's legal status. - TVerBeek 11:24, 21 May 2006 (EDT)
I'd appreciate very much getting a discussion going on this. We may need a somewhat different policy about VFDs. I'm going to move this discussion to Wikitravel_Shared:Deletion policy. Thank. - Sapphire 02:28, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Questions, questions

  1. Interwiki links to Wikipedia aren't working. Design or oversight?
  2. It looks like Wikipedia has a cool feature where SVG is directly rendered as an image without needing to upload the PNG file separately. Can that be rolled in here?
  3. If the abovementioned cool feature is a Mediawiki extension can something be done so that depending on which language the file is accessed from, labels specific to that language is shown... A wild thought - I don't know if I am making sense.
  4. Why do we have a misleading warning on top of this page sending people away when clearly this is the page where all the discussion is happening? — Ravikiran 11:25, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

Answer to no 4) Discussions from may 2006 and onwards moved here. The warning has been adjusted accordingly. Riggwelter 05:03, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

Geographical Hierarchy

So the Main Page now says "Images on Wikitravel shared are sorted mostly by country". On the other hand, keeping Wikitravel's Geographical hierarchy (which, by the way, is adopted differently between language versions) has also been proposed here on Shared. I was unaware that maybe a different hierarchy is being used here until I had isin'ed a couple of dozen categories using the same hierarchy as English Wikitravel. Which structure are we using then? I'd be happy with the "by country" model because of the language versions issue, but the "by continent region" model could be fine too. Rmx 22:39, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Technical and language policy changes

There's a proposal that's been made to move more of the discussions about things that affect all Wikitravellers to shared:. The idea is to make shared: more of a center of conversation for Wikitravel, and put en: on a more equal footing with other language versions.

Technical issues (bug reports, feature requests, announcements) and language coordination (language expeditions, go-between reports) would move from en: to shared:. Policy and guidelines that only affected en: would, of course, stay on that wiki.

The proposal is on en:Wikitravel talk:Technical infrastructure policy and en:Wikitravel talk:Language version policy. It'd be especially great to get feedback from people who use shared: a lot. --Evan 13:17, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

I'm a bit sceptical of the move, because too few people use Shared. If the point is to include people in discussion I think EN makes the most sense because there are more users on EN and as language versions are a spin off of EN people will naturally gravitate toward EN. I understand Hans' proposal, but it will actually be counter productive. No one in the EN community is so anti- other persepectives that we would automatically dismiss any view points DE, PL, PT, ES, FR, NL, IT, SV, and JA users provide on an EN policy technical infrastructure page. -- Sapphire 11:04, 7 July 2006 (EDT)
I think it is an excellent way to make people use and develop Shared. Riggwelter 19:07, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

"Commons:"

For most of the Wikitravel language versions, the Interwiki prefix [[Commons:Something]] is a synonym for [[Shared:Something]], so that Wikimedia people can feel at home pointing to the Wikitravel "commons".

I've just changed the interwiki prefix on shared so that here [[Commons:Something]] goes to Wikimedia Commons. I figure that that's the most reasonable place to point to with that prefix; it seems kind of useful.

Should we do that on every Wikitravel version, or is it OK to do it only here? --Evan 21:25, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

I suggest it's done on all versions. Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Navigation box

It would be helpful if the navigation bar on the right had a direct link to the Travellers' pub. I do not think we will use the Today's Log feature that much here, so it could be replaced by the pub link. Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Toolbox

Every version on WT should have an upload link to Shared, like "Upload file to Wikitravel Shared". That way, it would be easier for the average user to put their files on Shared. Riggwelter 12:05, 17 July 2006 (EDT)

Single signon

I've finally got code working on shared: so that you can log in to the site with an account from one of the other language versions. Because this is still a very new feature, you can only log into shared: with an account from another language version. You can't log into sv: with an account from de:, or log into pt: with an account from shared: (yet).

It's based on OpenID, a cool technology for logging into different servers. Here's how it works.

If you don't already have a shared: account

  1. Go to Special:OpenIDLogin on shared:.
  2. Enter your User page URL on your preferred Wikitravel language version into the "OpenID" area. For example, "http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan" or "http://wikitravel.org/de/Benutzer:Evan". Except use your user page, not mine.
  3. Hit the Verify button. It should take you to your preferred language version, where you may have to log in. It will also ask you if you want to share private data with the shared: wiki; make your own decision. There's not much advantage to this right now, and I will probably make it automatic for logging in between Wikitravel wikis, but it's on now so people get how it works. You only have to do it once, though.
  4. Back at shared:, it will try to create a new user name for you. If your username at your "preferred" wiki is available, you get that. Otherwise, you get a choice between a couple of made-up names, or you can choose one yourself.

If you already have a shared: account

  1. Log in to your shared: account.
  2. Go to Special:OpenIDConvert on shared: .
  3. Enter your User page URL on your preferred Wikitravel language version into the "OpenID" area. For example, "http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Evan" or "http://wikitravel.org/de/Benutzer:Evan". Except use your user page, not mine. Hit OK to save it.
  4. Go to Special:Userlogout on shared: to log out of Wikitravel Shared.
  5. Go to Special:OpenIDLogin on shared: .
  6. Enter your User: page URL again (from your preferred wiki, not the one from shared:), and hit Verify.
  7. You may have to log in, and you may also get asked if you want to share your private data with shared:. Make the decision as you wish.
  8. Back at shared, you'll be logged in.

After that

After that, you should be able to do whatever you want on the site, just like a regular logged-in user. When you come back later, you can go to Special:OpenIDLogin to log in again. In the not-too-distant future, when you come to shared: and you're logged in to your "home" wiki, you'll get automatically logged in here.

I'm going to try to add some documentation on this situation, but please let me know how it goes if you try this. See en:Wikitravel talk:Single sign-on for my rollout plan for this tool. --Evan 22:42, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

I tried the above procedure and had a problem.
I already have an account on all language versions plus shared:.
  1. I explicitly logged out from all language versions.
  2. I went to shared:Special:OpenIDConvert and entered http://wikitravel.org/en/User:Episteme.
  3. Now OpenID login seems to be working fine between shared: and en:.
  4. I went to shared:Special:OpenIDConvert again and entered http://wikitravel.org/pl/User:Episteme to add another language version (which was probably a wrong idea).
  5. Since then, I can't log in at shared:Special:OpenIDLogin either with en: URL or pl: URL. After entering my password I am told "Your preferred nickname (Episteme) is already in use by another user."
  6. I can still log in with the conventional method, though.
Now I have some questions:
  • Could you please reset my OpenID registration?
  • How to register with multiple language versions?
  • Does OpenID login have to be done in shared:? Each language version also has Special:OpenIDLogin page.
  • How about logout? Does it have to be done separately?
  • Could you make it clear that Special:Userlogout and Special:OpenIDLogin in the above procedure are done in shared: or in a language version?
  • It could be tough to enter a URL containing the localized namespace for "User:". Does the unlocalized "User:" namespace still work here too?
  • The whole mechanism seems to be somewhat obscure. How does it work internally?
--Episteme 07:33, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
Oh, no! I'm so sorry that your first experience was a poor one. Maj and I call this the "Episteme feature" because you log in to so many different language versions.
These instructions were unclear. I was really lazy and didn't explicitly say how things work. I'll try to lay it out here, but please read the en:Wikitravel talk:Single sign-on page for how I'm rolling out this feature. Since user accounts are very important, I've tried to be very careful in making them work correctly, but I want to take it slow so that we can make sure it works OK.
In the future (over the next few weeks), you will be able to log into any Wikitravel language version with an ID from any other Wikitravel language version. It will be great. My personal plan is to convert all my accounts on all the language versions to be OpenID accounts that use my shared: identity (http://wikitravel.org/shared/User:Evan). That way, when I get up in the morning, I can log into shared: (with my password) and go to all the other language versions without having to log in again.
I've also talked to admins with Wikimedia, Wikia, and Wikihow, and they all want to implement this feature, so you can log into almost any other wiki with your Wikitravel login (and vice versa).
However, Today, you can only log in to shared: with an ID from another language version. You can't log into sv: with a user ID from nl:, or log in to fr: with a user id from shared:. I drew this diagram to show how it works; an arrow means that a user from one wiki can log into another:

Wikitravel-openid-login.png

Why did I do it with these arbitrary restrictions? Because it's a test. I think this feature works OK, but I'm trying to take it slow so that if anything comes up wrong, there's limited damage. And I think logging in to shared: from another version is the main "interwiki login" that most Wikitravellers need to do (for uploading files).
So, with my apologies again, here are my responses to your questions:
  1. You triggered a bug when you put the pl: URL in. It's a stupid mistake on my part (there was a space at the end of the URL!), and I'm going to fix it. In the mean time, your account has been reset. Let me know if there are any problems.
  2. For each external account that you use, there is one local account that matches it. You can't log into the same local account with more than one different external account.
  3. Each language version has a Special:OpenIDLogin page, but you can't login to anything but shared:. Soon, you will be able to; this is just part of the slow testing phase.
  4. Logout works the same as usual.
  5. I'll change that right after I finish this response.
  6. I think that "User:" will always work, but please try it. Let me also note an experimental feature: you can use an interwiki link for the login ID, too. So "en:User:Evan" should work, or "ja:利用者:Episteme".
  7. The internals are pretty complicated! First, let me ask that you look at the README, which has a lot of details on the internals. Next, I'll write about the whole thing on Wikitravel Shared:OpenID, with some details.
I appreciate that you tried this, and I hope you'll try it again soon. --Evan 12:22, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
Oh, also: here's a diagram of the next step in this testing. I know, it looks pretty complicated, but all it means is that anyone from any of the Wikitravel versions can log into any of the other versions. --Evan 13:03, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Wikitravel-openid-login-soon.png

I appreciate your detailed illustration. BTW I tried again and still had a problem:

  1. Logged out from all language versions as well as shared:.
  2. Logged in to shared: with the conventional method.
  3. Went to shared:Special:OpenIDConvert, entered ja:User:Episteme and got successful conversion. Then I logged out.
  4. Went to shared:Special:OpenIDLogin and entered ja:User:Episteme. After entering my password I got "Your nickname is already in use" again.
  5. Next time I tried to log in with OpenID, I got "Verification error".

--Episteme 13:39, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Categories

I have, in order to bring some order (!) to our specific Wikitravel Shared meta pages, created three categories:

One funny thing is that the last category, Templates, also lists some images uploaded onto Shared. I do not know why, but suspects some sort of RDF clash. IF it cannot be solved, we have to ditch the categories in this case and come up with some solution - the only way we can keep track of Wikitravel Shared meta pages would then be Wikitravel Shared:Namespace index. Riggwelter 07:26, 22 July 2006 (EDT)

Go-between reports -> Liaison reports

I have prepared the new version of go-between reports, as discussed on en:. The new page is called Wikitravel Shared:Liaison reports and is an image of the corresponding go-between page on en:. Please use the template provided, this makes it way easier for the rest of us to comment on each other's progress. Riggwelter 07:26, 22 July 2006 (EDT)