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The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
 
The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
  
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
  
{{disclaimerbox|If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to that article.
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You can find Archived discussions here: '''[[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives|Travellers´pub Archives]]'''.
  
If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/ Mediawiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
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{{disclaimerbox|*If you have a question or suggestion about a ''particular'' article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to ''that'' article.
  
If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.
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*If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [https://mediawiki.org/ MediaWiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
  
}}
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*If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.}}
 
 
<big>'''Please sweep the pub'''</big>
 
 
 
Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it will get too noisy and hard to read. If you see an old conversation (i.e. '''three months''' after the last comment in that discussion) that could or should be moved to a [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|talk page]], please do so, and note there that it has been swept in from the pub.
 
 
 
* A question regarding a destination article should be swept to the article discussion page
 
* A discussion regarding a policy or the subject of an expedition can be swept to the policy or expedition discussion page
 
* A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question.
 
* A pointer to a discussion going on elsewhere, such as a notice of a star nomination or or a request to comment on another talk page, can be removed when it is two months old.  Any discussion that occurred in the pub can be swept to to where the main discussion took place.
 
 
 
Any discussions that do not fall into any of these categories, and are not of any special importance for posterity, should be archived to '''[[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives]]''' and removed from here. If you are not sure where to put a discussion, let it be—better to spend your efforts on those that you do know where to place.
 
 
 
{{WikitravelDoc|collaboration}}
 
  
 
[[ca:Wikitravel:Bar dels viatgers]]
 
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[[fr:Wikitravel:Café des Voyageurs]]
 
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[[he:ויקיטיול:דלפק ייעוץ]]
 
[[he:ויקיטיול:דלפק ייעוץ]]
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[[hu:Wikitravel:Kocsmafal]]
 
[[it:Wikitravel:Bar dei viaggiatori]]
 
[[it:Wikitravel:Bar dei viaggiatori]]
 
[[ja:Wikitravel:旅人の居酒屋]]
 
[[ja:Wikitravel:旅人の居酒屋]]
[[ko:Wikitravel:Travellers' pub]]
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[[ko:Wikitravel:사랑방]]
 
[[nl:Wikitravel:Reizigerscafé]]
 
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[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
----
 
 
 
 
== Templated See and Do listings ==
 
 
Hi there. I'm only a new 'WikiTraveler', but am a seasoned Wiki-editor with many years experience. I am hoping to make some big contributions to this site, but something has been bugging me lately. I find that the See and Do listings on some articles can get very messy and disorganised. I think if we were to organise this information into a template/table, this would be much better for viewers to decipher information from, and also improve the quality of our articles.
 
 
This has been proposed many years ago at [[Wikitravel_talk:Attraction_listings]], but with little discussion or progress. It seems many other language WikiTravels do it. [http://wikitravel.org/ja/%E3%83%AB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%91%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3#.E8.A6.B3.E3.82.8B See here] for a Japanese example. I understand we use WikiCode tags, and it could take a long time to convert ''every'' article to a template format. One option is to keep the WikiCode we use, but change how the system organises the info within the tags; from a jumbled text wall, to an organised table format. This would allow for a total revamp across the board, yet with minimal effort.
 
 
Any other thoughts, ideas or comments? Thanks, [[User:JamesA|JamesA]] 08:56, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: One of the reasons the wikicode tags were used was to add the "edit" links to make it easier for non-technical contributors to add and edit listings.  As far as I'm aware there would be no way to achieve similar functionality using templates. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 10:30, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: Maybe this is just me... I feel like the Japanese presentation is a bit over the top, but I'd be quite happy just to add a bit more formatting to the current presentation. Just a bit of italics here and there, that kind of stuff. Most English-language print guidebooks do this, and I think it aids readability and makes it easy to spot when a listing is missing a piece of info. --[[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 14:18, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
 
:::Our listings already use bold and italics.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 18:50, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
 
::::We do have a great system for adding listings. This system can easily be kept. What would be changed is where that information goes. There has to be a page somewhere (probably a MediaWiki: page) that organises the listing into the format it currently is, with the bold font, italics, etc. From a glance at this page, it seems [[User:IBobi]] handles the wiki's technical stuff, so maybe he would know how to change it.
 
::::The Japanese format does take it a step overboard with all the colours and pictures. We could always have a much more toned down version. I just feel the way it is now is really messy. Look at the opening times on the [[Dhaka#Buildings|first listing here]]; it's all over the place. A possibility could be just to add more bold/italics/underlines, or even put some information on separate lines or dot points. Does anyone want to have a go at fixing it up? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 04:28, 12 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: Yes, I know they already use some bold and italics... I was saying I think they could use a little more. --[[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 10:15, 18 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::Well, to be honest, I wouldn't know how to change them.  But a good start would be creating a mockup.  [[Wikitravel talk:Listings]] would be a good place to discuss the mockup once you create one.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 19:26, 18 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::I certainly wouldn't want to see the listings become as colorful and complex as the ones on the Japanese site and I like the tag system we have now, but I think some minor tweaking couldn't hurt - putting the opening hours and the price info in italics, to further distinguish them from the description of the place, would really tidy up the presentation (whether this can actually be done I don't know, but I'm just throwing that out there). I really wouldn't want to see any more bolded text in the listings - as of now only the '''name''' of the place is bolded, and I like that because it highlights it and makes it easier on the eye when you're scanning an article looking for a specific listing. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:31, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::We could make the phone number blink!  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Moving the hours to a separate line could be really useful. I think we could make them more readable:
 
 
Current version:
 
* <see name="International Spy Museum" alt="" address="800 F St NW" directions="" phone="+1 202 393-7798" url="http://spymuseum.org/index.php" hours="9AM-5PM or 9AM-6PM daily, last admission one hour before close" price="Adults: $20, seniors: $15, children (5-11): $15, 4 &amp; under: Free" lat="" long="" email="" fax="">D.C.'s newest hot attraction's principal claim to fame among locals is the extraordinarily long line that usually winds out the doors (not to mention the high price tag). Its popularity, while a bit disproportionate given all the other great free museums in town, is not unwarranted—its exhibits are interesting to anyone even marginally interested in espionage and Cold War history, and it also has a great exhibit tailored specifically to kids.</see>
 
 
Another idea:
 
*'''International Spy Museum''', 800 F St NW, ☎ +1 202 393-7798, [http://spymuseum.org/index.php 1].
 
:''9AM-5PM or 9AM-6PM daily, last admission one hour before close.''
 
:D.C.'s newest hot attraction's principal claim to fame among locals is the extraordinarily long line that usually winds out the doors (not to mention the high price tag). Its popularity, while a bit disproportionate given all the other great free museums in town, is not unwarranted—its exhibits are interesting to anyone even marginally interested in espionage and Cold War history, and it also has a great exhibit tailored specifically to kids.
 
:'''Price''': Adults: $20, seniors: $15, children (5-11): $15, 4 & under: Free.
 
 
Good idea to take a fresh look at this. We'll have to wait until we have functional tech support, or the ability to do our own tech support, before we can implement this, but it's good to figure out what we want in the meantime.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:55, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:That's great, Peter! The separate lines makes it much easier to read the information, instead of it being a jumbled mess. Most travel guides do organise the info how we do it now, (all in one long spiel, rather than spaced out) but that's just because they need to fit all the info into a specific number of pages. We have much more room than books, so it makes sense that we make use of it and make the info easier to read for viewers. I'll do some perusing and see if I can find out how to edit the backend stuff. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 07:05, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Excellent suggestion! [[User:Atsirlin|Atsirlin]] 07:15, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::If anyone wants to have a go searching for how to modify the backend code that configures the layout, [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Allmessages&ot=html here] may be a good start. That's a list of all the technical MediaWiki pages that can be tweaked. Some pages have the prefix "listing", which might be somehow relevant. But don't take my word for it; the page we need might not be there. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 09:02, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Keep in mind that, despite the prevalence of mobile options in the modern era, making guides that can be easily and cheaply printed out is still one of our [[Wikitravel:Goals and non-goals|explicit goals]].  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:17, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: It is entirely possible to change the format for a printed guide, much like we do now for URL formatting.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 20:27, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::Is that feature custom to Wikitravel, or a feature of MediaWiki?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::: The alternate formatting for printable version is a MediaWiki feature.  All it does is use a different (css) stylesheet for formatting.  I'm pretty sure MediaWiki allows more of these stylesheets to be configured as preferences too.  So in my understanding you could easily have a different style for printing than you have for online display, so we shouldn't let the printing bit constrain our thinking too much. After all, our online display currently has no URLs, so is inherently unsuited for printing. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 19:29, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::::There's been a week of inactivity, so is everyone content with just implementing Peter's version for the time being? There's no colour or pictures, simply a few extra lines and spaces, and it should be possible to keep the Printable version as-is. After implementation, we can re-discuss if there's any issues. I did a little search around to find the code we need to edit, but it's very complicated. It looks like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) Ajax] and CSS were used, which is only editable by site admins/IB. The Listing Editor's code is [http://files.wikitravel.org/mw/skins/common/ListingEditor.js here]. The formatting of the listing is [http://files.wikitravel.org/mw/skins/common/listing.css here]. Original discussion [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Popup_editing_for_listings_tags here]. While we're at it, we should add the 'email' option to the editor, which has been long missing. I guess we should file a tech-request then? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 23:21, 29 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::::Given the complexity of the change and the expansiveness of its effect, I'd prefer to see more discussion before we go making major changes.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 30 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
I would also like to see some more discussion on this before making a change. Listings have a variety of completeness and length of information, so depending on what is there, the above proposal could easily produce a very lopsided-looking listing like this:
 
*'''International Butt Museum''', 800 F St NW, ☎ +1 202 393-7798, [email protected], [http://buttmuseum.org/index.php 1].
 
:''9AM-5PM.''
 
:Super awesome museum about butts. Great for people who have butts or would like to find out more about butts.
 
:'''Price''': Free.
 
 
[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 15:16, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Is there a code that we could use that would only implement the multiple-line layout when a certain character/word count is reached? Sounds complicated to implement, though. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 05:42, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::That would result in an ugly (I think) situation with listings appearing in a random combination of the two formats. I think we would have to either go whole-hog, as ja: has done, or just leave it alone.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 12:53, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==www.airport-china.com==
 
 
A lot of links to this site have been posted in articles about various Chinese cities. I doubt this is an official airport site, but I'm not completely certain. If it's not, all such links should be deleted. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 22:02, 25 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:At the bottom of the page of http://www.airport-china.com are various advertising links to hotel booking sites and tour guides, there is also a statement of "Power by Lutu ltd.", whose own website states that:
 
 
:''Lutu Inc. is the one of the domestic company in China, which fully committed in the business of China Hotel Online Booking Service.''
 
 
:These links coupled with the .com rather than .cn top level domain suggest a commercial, rather than government, site.
 
:The Civil Aviation Authority of China has a website at http://www.caac.gov.cn/.[[User:Travelpleb|Travelpleb]] 10:57, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Deletion of user and talk pages ==
 
 
Every time I'm monitoring the Recent Changes, I notice new users creating accounts then pasting some huge advertising spiel on their user/user talk pages. I understand advertising is completely disallowed, but are these pages meant to be outright deleted? If so, it may help if we had a template for 'Speedy deletions'. All the pages with the template would be put into a category where admins would just delete them without discussion, as they are blatant breaches of guidelines. [[Template:Vfd]] seems to only cover deletions that require discussion and consensus. I'll go ahead and create the template in the few days, if there are no objections, but wanted to also notify admins of the idea.
 
 
On an unrelated sidenote, I think the pub is definitely in need of a sweep of items that are at least 3 months old. Any objections to that? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup>
 
 
:I've created [[Template:Delete]] and [[:Category:Speedy deletion candidates]]. Please add it to your watchlist/userspace, admins, so you can keep an eye on it. :) <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 08:11, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: I don't think a separate template is needed as the VFD tag should be sufficient, and if a speedy deletion is warranted the nomination can state as much.  However, for spambot-created pages no nomination is needed unless the page is overlooked - per [[Wikitravel:Deletion policy#Speedy deletion]] obvious candidates don't require a nomination as it adds extra overhead for nominating and archiving discussion (''"New pages that are plainly spam and that qualify for speedy deletion will be deleted as soon as they are noticed by an administrator, and therefore do not need to be listed on the votes for deletion page. If such a page remains for more than 24 hours, add it to the nominations page as a way to ensure that it isn't overlooked."''). -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:15, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Yes, such user pages should be deleted, and I delete them whenever I see them. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 18:20, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
The pub definitely needs more brooms! Please don't simply sweep everything into an archive, though. Discussions should be swept to the most relevant talk page, per the little sweeping guide at the top of this page.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 12:55, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I didn't think it was necessary to list advertisement articles on the VfD page because, as Ryan said, it would involve extra nomination processes and archiving when discussion shouldn't be required. I considered letting an admin know on their talk page, but quite a few new pages popped up. Also, I'll sweep some old dust out of the pub later when I get a chance :) <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 03:45, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Introducing the Wikitravel API ==
 
 
Hey there. Just wanted to mention that I've gone and created an [http://wiki-sherpa.appspot.com/api API for Wikitravel], for people who want to use Wikitravel data in other projects. It renders pages as hierarchical JSON objects, with wikimarkup rendered into simple HTML, and includes lists of subpages, geocoding of listings with addresses, etc. There's also a search API and the ability to search for pages and listings near a particular latitude and longitude. Please note, however, that it's very much a beta release; any feedback, suggestions, or bug reports would be most welcome! [[User:Rezendi|Rezendi]] 12:48, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Mediawiki upgrade scheduled for 06-June-2012 ==
 
 
Site will be READ-ONLY for up to 2 days while the upgrade is occurring.
 
 
If there are edits you'd like to make, please do so asap.
 
 
When the new site comes online, it will be on new hardware as well. Bug reporting is available here:
 
 
http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS
 
 
If for any reason you need to contact me, I can be reached on my Talk page or my email address paul.obrien at internetbrands.com. Thanks!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:07, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Delayed until 06-June-2012--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:11, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Upgrade complete. Please report issues at http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:02, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Eratic readings since crash at 5. Juni 2012 in German Wikitravel ==
 
 
Seit dem 7. Juni 2012 werden auf der Deutschen Seite von Wikitravel Informationen zu Sehenswürdigkeiten, Gastronomie und Unterkünften nur noch zum Teil angezeigt. Auch die Darstellung am Beginn eines Artikels hat sich zum Nachteil verändert. Die Hauptseite hat einen aktuellen Stand vom 22. Juni 2011, also fast ein Jahr alt. Auch die Artikelinformationen sind veraltet. Interessierte neue Autoren springen sehr schnell ab und gehen zu [http://www.wikivoyage.org/de/Hauptseite Wikivoyage] über. Dort werden sie herzlichst begrüßt und aufgenommen. Bei Wikitravel werden sie von einen nicht mehr aktiven Administrator gefrustet, der ihre Beiträge ohne Begründung löscht, anstatt ihnen Hilfe anzubieten.
 
 
Man bekommt den Eindruck Wikitravel ist gestorben und wird nicht mehr gepflegt. Es ist seit Januar 2012 kein aktiver Administrator mehr tätig. Die Wahl für neue Administratoren ist mangels Interesse gescheitert. Wie soll es weitergehen?
 
 
Please answer at the German Travellers' pub-Site. -- Knut [[Special:Contributions/84.58.160.100|84.58.160.100]] 04:32, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Upgrade to 1.17 complete ==
 
 
Hi all,
 
 
As you can see, we have completed the initial stage of the upgrade of the MediWiki software to v1.17, the most current version available when the upgrade began in November. 
 
 
This has been an enormously complex endeavor, due to the huge size of the Wikitravel database and high level of visitor activity, as well as Wikitravel’s highly customized MediWiki version, consisting of a great many plugins.
 
 
The next phase is now in progress: bug reports and fixes. Inevitably in an upgrade of this size and complexity there will be bugs. They’ll be addressed as they are reported; the process started this morning.
 
 
Once we are convinced the new site is stable and fully functional, we’ll be able to tackle feature requests and bugs that were reported previously but that we could not address before the completion of the upgrade, and new feature requests that are just now available with this version of the software, such as InstantCommons. And now that the upgrade past 1.15 has been completed, future upgrades to 1.19 and beyond can and will be done in a far more efficient and timely manner.
 
 
Wikitravel is now running on a completely new hardware platform. When the cacheing process is complete, we expect significant increases in performance and stability compared to the previous version of the site. We also have a larger and more experienced technical team to address the needs of the site.
 
 
What this amounts to is a Wikitravel that is dramatically improved from a technical standpoint than it has been for the last few years. Coupled with the renewed community engagement between members and Wikitravel’s steward, Internet Brands, we have a recipe for longterm success with the technical aspects of the site, the ability of administrators to patrol edits, bug reporting and resolution, ease of contribution by writers, and above all usability for travelers around the globe.
 
 
Wikitravel would not be possible without the dedicated community of administrators and writers whose content and curation have made it the preeminent travel destination anywhere. We are very happy to have completed this hardware and software upgrade, and look forward to continuing to evolve the site, in partnership with this community, in the years to come.
 
 
We appreciate your patience and support during these last few months, as we have renewed our efforts to improve the site and energize the Wikitravel community. And we thank you for all you have done, both before and during Internet Brands’ stewardship. With nearly 2 million edits to almost 80,000 pages; over 70,000 registered users; and 7 million monthly visitors, there has never been a travel resource like Wiktravel. It is massive. It is unique. And it’s getting better by the day.
 
 
--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 21:36, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I sincerely hope at least the bugs that affect security will be fixed within a few hours. If you don't have a safe new version of the software, isn't it better to prevent editing until you do? Yes, performance is a huge issue, but the inability to block spammers is untenable. If I can suggest something for the next upgrade: You need software that recognizes obvious spam, because depending on volunteers to manually delete spam and block spammers is not likely to withstand the efforts of more and more spambots. Thanks, and sorry if I sound peeved, but spammers have been operated unblocked for several days now. All the best, [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:29, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Hi Ikan, I am told the first round of bug fixes will be deployed in the next 24 hours. We've been working on site stability over the days since the update, and I am working hard to ensure that spam remediation -- including blocking users -- is prioritized.  We know the manual removal of new spam accounts is arduous in the wake of this upgrade, and it is much, much appreciated by everyone. If I hear anything sooner, I will update here. Thank you,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:09, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Does anyone else have an opinion on locking edits until the user blocking feature can be restored?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:06, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::: I think we've been able to keep up with the spambots thus far, but it should definitely be a priority to get user blocking working again before the end of the day - at present we would have limited ability to deal with high-volume vandals, for example, and it's inevitable that they'll show before long. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 15:48, 11 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: Any update on bug fixes?  It's been five days since the upgrade went live, so any info on when (for example) user blocking will again be working would be very useful. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 12:10, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::When the far more serious issues such as those above have been dealt with it would be good to see a longer edit summary window return, that new short one is quite frustrating. cheers -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 13:14, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::I think that is user-selectable, Felix?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:26, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::*Hi iBobi, I cannot find any setting in the user prefs, is it somewhere else? -- cheers [[User:Felix505|felix]] 22:38, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::First set of bug fixes are coming tomorrow a.m. (June 14), and will include blocking. Thanks for your patience and greater efforts at patrolling edits necessitated by this week-long tool outage!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:26, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::Lots of fake Ikan Kekek usernames just created: [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Log/newusers]. Time to prevent all edits by new users, or just shut down Wikitravel, period, right now. We won't like the results of allowing unblockable spammers and vandals to continue to run rampant, and we can wait till tomorrow (or whenever your bug fixes are actually operational) to start editing again. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 20:50, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::*If this sort of thing is going to continue unabated then lock down editing access completely until proper administrative functionality is restored. The world will not stop turning if editing functions are missing for a while, it might irritate or alienate a few new or casual editors who might run up against an editing block, but that is better than having the whole thing turned into a time consuming spam riddled and vandalised mess.--[[User:Felix505|felix]] 22:38, 13 June 2012 (EDT)
 
en: has been unbelievably slow the last couple of days, far more than other language versions.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 11:02, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:<strike>I agree that IB should lock editing on :en, except perhaps for admins, until blocking functionality is restored.  That this hasn't been fixed yet is troubling, and it cannot wait.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:15, 14 June 2012 (EDT)</strike>  Looks like blocking functionality is back, although I haven't tested other language versions. Loading the block page is slow as a Ghanaian cook, though.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:44, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::Over on pt:, I'm starting to think that the spam blacklist isn't doing its job-- I put some domains in the list the other day, and I see today that they are still being allowed to be posted. Has anyone checked this here on en:? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 11:22, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:::Blocking has started working on pt: too. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 12:30, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::It works on ru:, but many other things still do not-((( [[User:Atsirlin|Atsirlin]] 15:33, 14 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
===Patrolling problems===
 
I still am not able to mark many articles as patrolled. This is a problem that seems to randomly apply to some articles and not others, but it's been consistently a problem with perhaps 1/2 of unpatrolled articles at any given time since the update. What happens is that the articles show up in the "Recent changes" list as needing patrolling, but when I open them, there is no button to patrol them. That's not because anyone else has patrolled them: When I refresh the list, they still show up as unpatrolled. And if I edit them, the resulting version also shows up as unpatrolled in the "Recent changes" list but generally still does not have a patrol button when I open it. I am using Firefox 13.0.1 in a Windows XP environment, if that matters. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 18:25, 24 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Same thing here. I believe the "Mark as patrolled" button doesn't appear when there is more than one edit to the article. Opera 12 on XP. [[User:Jjtk|Jjtk]] 04:21, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::At least for administrators (but I thought for all registered users?), it should, and used to before the upgrade. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 04:40, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::It did, it broke after the upgrade. [[User:Jjtk|Jjtk]] 04:53, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::I haven't had any problem patrolling edits.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 11:42, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::: Using "enhanced recent changes" from the preferences (which consolidates edits to the same article) I'm also unable to mark multiple edits as patrolled, although they can be patrolled singly. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 11:49, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::I've been using those enhanced changes. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 17:51, 25 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
This is [[:wts:Tech:Grouped edits not patrollable|now fixed]], so we can get back to the beat.  I have noticed that, on occasion, the marked as patrolled link is hiding at the bottom right of the page (as with new pages).  I don't know why, but it shouldn't be a big deal, if people know about it.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:55, 6 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Breadcrumb Navigation not working on fr: ==
 
Hi, thanks for the upgrade. However the breadcrumb navigation on fr: seems broken. It works on en: and nl: and I don't see any modification in [[Template:IsPartOf]]. Any idea? joelf
 
: It seems fixed now. Thanks IB people! Joelf
 
 
== OpenID not working==
 
Also, login on en: using OpenID from fr: and URL ''fr:user:joelf'' doesn't seem to work either. Thanks for your help. joelf
 
 
:Take a look at [[:wts:Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:44, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== cannot reach Shared ==
 
 
Shared seems to be completely down or something. I cannot reach it at all... [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 10:23, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:And now I get this message when I try to reach an image page on Shared:
 
::''A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:''
 
::''(SQL query hidden)''
 
::''from within function "LocalFile::upgradeRow". Database returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; try restarting transaction (wikitraveldb1-new)".''
 
:[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 10:40, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::No problems here.  Maybe it's fixed?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:16, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Now I can get to the Shared main page, after a considerable wait, but I still can't reach the page I want to change: [[http://wikitravel.org/en/File:Cambodia_Rail_Northern.png]]. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 13:50, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Amtrak logo for routeboxes - fair use? ==
 
 
I would like to integrate American rail travel into our routebox navigation, but first I need to come up with some 100x25 route icons to use. Obviously I could come up with some generic train symbol to use, but ideal would be to use Amtrak's wave symbol on the left with the route name on the right. The Amtrak logo is trademarked, and I do not know if this would constitute fair use, or if not, whether it would be desirable enough to attempt to get permission to create such derivative icons. Does anyone have an informed opinion on this? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 10:29, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I definitely think it would be permitted under Fair Use, per [[:wikipedia:File:Amtrak_Logo.svg|usage at Wikipedia]]. The problem is, though, that we [[:wts:How_to_upload_files#Specify_licensing.21|don't allow]] copyrighted images under Fair Use ;) I agree, though, that it would be a shame not to use it—maybe we could come up with some other justification?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:37, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Hmmm.. Do you have any ideas on that? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 11:20, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::None at present ;) In the meantime, how does this look? [[File:AMTRAK Vermonter icon.png|right]]
 
 
:::--[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:30, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::Looks good enough for now. Can you toss me an .svg file so I can change the text for other lines? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 12:00, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::[[:wts:File:Amtrak icons.svg|Voila]]  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 12:27, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:We would need to modify policy in order to make use of the copyrighted logo.  One option might be to use Amtrak's old logo ([[:wikipedia:File:AmtrakLogo.png]]), which I would argue is uncopyrightable.  Other than that, just stick with the wordmark in appropriate colors, as Peter did.  On another note, how do we work train routes with routeboxes?  Do we link all destinations, or only those at which the train actually stops?  (Tangentially, I would suggest creating a combined icon for routes with a lot of overlap like Empire Service/Maple Leaf.)  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:56, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
OK, thanks. I took what you did and made a mock-up icon for each train line they have. I just updated the same .svg you uploaded. Please have a look and tell me what you think! [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 22:49, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:LtPowers, that's a good idea about making combined icons for routes with overlap-- can you suggest exactly which ones might need that?
 
:We should only link the destinations at which it stops-- it does no good for a traveller to know that some train passes through without stopping where they are. We have already implemented the main train lines pretty well for our Japan articles. You might want to have a look. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 22:55, 19 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::It wouldn't do me much good to look at Japan because I'm not familiar with the geography of the area.  =)  I also don't know exactly which routes overlap; I know that Empire Service and Maple Leaf are the same except for Maple Leaf going to Toronto, but beyond that I'm clueless.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:09, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:::By the way, I re-exported your Northeast Express icon from the SVG to fix some font sizing issues, but I'm having trouble forcing the thumbnails to regenerate.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:24, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::In the northeast corridor, it would probably be useful to have combined icons for Vermonter/Acela/Northeast Regional. The Vermonter and Northeast Regional share all the same stops (I believe) from D.C. through NYC before splitting. The Acela follows the same route as the Northeast Regional (and hence the Vermonter through NYC), but makes fewer stops.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:27, 20 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
I don't understand why we would see using the Amtrak logo as ideal.  Surely that sends us down a slope of wanting to use each railway system logo around the world.  There are literally hundreds of these, and some are going to want to enforce their trademarks.  Stick to generic, I say.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 00:52, 22 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Problems with the search/go function ==
 
 
There seems to be something wrong with the search function. No matter what I type in there the search result is always the same:
 
 
"No such special page
 
You have requested an invalid special page.
 
A list of valid special pages can be found at Special pages.
 
Return to Main Page."
 
 
Has it something to do with the software update?
 
 
[[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 05:18, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:Ypsilon, you beat me on time ;-) I have the same problem and can't search for articles. [[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 05:27, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I just had that problem while looking for UNESCO World Heritage Sites. Of course, when I clicked the list of Special pages, it wasn't there, yet I found it by going to an off-site web search. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:39, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::I emailed [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] and started a bug report at [[Shared:Tech:Search/Go not working on en:]]. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 10:24, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::Go was working fine (that is, if you typed an article name exactly) until recently; I suspect they broke it when they were trying to fix Search.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 10:25, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::This is too important a problem to let readers sit in the dark about, so I have updated the SiteNotice to direct people to... Google.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 12:39, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::Nice move. I can't believe they won't even respond for something so important. Oh, wait.. yes, I can. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 12:48, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::::I've reported this to our tech team. Please keep in mind that we are on the US West Coast and will generally be able to respond to issues according to that time zone difference; it's just morning here. Thank you,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:22, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::::: Now it's working again. Thanks! [[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 07:18, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Let's be clear. ''Go'' is working, but ''Search'' is still not working properly. Currently it does perform a search, but it spews forth every resulting page in its entirety in raw text form. Try searching for "New York" and see what I mean. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 10:12, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:What's the desired result for a search?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:43, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::It should return a list of results with only a 2-3 line excerpt of the article content (not including wiki markup) from the beginning of each result's article.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 13:52, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::My understanding is that this is the way MW 1.17 handles search results; it is fundamentally different from the old 1.11 version.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:44, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::OK, so we have altered the way search displays so that it is a small 2-3 line digest of each result; the raw code as part of the results is a different matter, and we're looking into it.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:12, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::FYI once we change this for all users, you can still go to your settings and go to the default setting if you want to see the full article in your search results.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:32, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::Can anyone verify that wiki markup ("raw text") was not displaying in the search results of the old version before the upgrade? Apparently the appearance of this markup is a bug with the MW software that they are aware of http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension_talk:SphinxSearch/Archive/2012#Search_Results_without_Wikicode.2FWiki_markup --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:34, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::I may be mistaken about the part about not showing raw text. Another thing though, I do think that the search used to default to content pages only, not everything all mixed with talk pages, user pages, etc. Please compare with the search on pt:, where everything seems to be working as it did before. I cannot really imagine a situation in which a user would find it useful for the entire article to appear on the results page in one giant block like that. It's ugly and often requires one to scroll quite a bit between result listings.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 18:00, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== POTALA INN, LITANG Sichuan China, DON'T GO! ==
 
 
<removed by LtPowers>
 
 
: Please add your information to the [[Litang]] travel article (click on the link, as the search function seems to be broken) because future travelers to the town will look for it there, not here. You should also boil it down to a few sentences. [[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 08:10, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::No, that is improper advice.  [[Wikitravel:Avoid negative reviews]].  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 10:23, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::: Yes, but I looked at the entry for the guesthouse out of curiosity and they weren't the first ones to complain about the service and the cleanliness. Googling the place gives even more negative reviews...  And I guess there aren't very many places to choose from in the town, and according to the description it's centrally located too. So IMO this is one of the cases where travelers should be [[tcf|warned]]. [[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 08:09, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::I removed the positive listing from the article. I would think that if they are using the internet to find accommodation, and they come here and aren't satisfied with any of the other 6 options we do list, then they would be fairly likely to look elsewhere online and encounter said negative reviews. You won't find commercial printed wasting space with such negative reviews either.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 11:55, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==InstantCommons now enabled==
 
 
Here's a bit of a bright spot in our messy upgrade: InstantCommons is enabled! This means you can add images from Commons to Wikitravel articles without having to re-upload them here. All you need do is add a thumbnail as usual (e.g., <nowiki>[[File:Wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery.jpg|thumb|270px|Wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery]]</nowiki>). It will then show up properly in the article, and will have a shadow page of sorts here (e.g., [[:File:Wreaths at Arlington National Cemetery.jpg]]), analogous to how our software handles images from Shared.
 
 
To see this in action, check out [[Arlington (Virginia)]], to which I just added 10 Commons images, without the huge amount of work that used to entail!  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:05, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:Awesome, super useful. Now, what is it that we don't have that allows one to directly display an .svg file on WP? If we had that functionality too, we could more easily import route icons without having to open them in Inkscape, save a .png, and upload it to Shared. Is that something we can get enabled here? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 23:27, 26 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Ooh, good point about route icons. (It will still be important to export maps to PNG, for the purpose of allowing translation layers within SVGs.)  Yes, we have the capability, provided we can get IB to add two lines to the config file... The '''instructions are here''' [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Image_Administration#SVG], and I assume the renderer to use would be '''rsvg''', as that is what the WMF projects all use.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:35, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Let me see what I can do.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:46, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Should be done guys -- can you test?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:31, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
::::I'm not seeing any difference. When an .svg is put in an image tag, it simply shows the filename as a link, e.g. [[Image:Eden Center map.svg|100px]]. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 14:20, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
:Well color me surprised!  I assume our image use policies will not change as a result?  It might make it more difficult to enforce, though.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 09:01, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I suppose the main policies that will see changes are just about which files should be uploaded to Shared, and which to Commons. I think it is probably worth keeping our maps hierarchy separate. There also may be cases in which we want to use files locally that Commons doesn't consider free enough for global use (pictures of statues, for example).  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:12, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
I just tried to add the coat of arms of [[Zeeland]] to the province article, but unfortunately, they forgot to turn on svg support. I hope they fix that soon! :-) --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 01:28, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Are we using <nowiki>__TOC__ <div> </div> __TOC__ <div> </div></nowiki> ==
 
 
I have seen this mark-up in a couple of articles today, are we using this image floating mark up here? -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 01:34, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: It's a bug with the listing editor, introduced some time today.  See [[:shared:Tech:Listing editor adds TOC tag]]. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 02:54, 27 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Edited 1.17 upgrade bug reports to reflect fixes ==
 
 
I have edited the http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS to reflect what's been fixed & what's pending, as well as a number of clarifications that are needed for tech.
 
 
You'll also notice a parenthetical number next to many of them e.g. "(175)" -- this refers to the internal technical problem report assigned to each and will help us track them.
 
 
If you see "Fixed" next to an issue you reported, please test it; if it's resolved, remove your bug from the list. If it is unresolved, please explain.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:22, 28 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:We have addressed and fixed all bugs reported since the 1.17 upgrade. Please review any you have reported and if they are still occurring, report them on the upgrade page (and unmark them as "resolved" or "fixed") and we'll readress them.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:44, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Shared down? ==
 
 
I currently can't seem to reach much of anything on Shared except the main page. Recent changes, the pub, random images, etc. all either time out or return a SQL error. What is going on there? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 15:43, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: Something is wrong.  I got the database error ([[:shared:Tech:Database lock timeout]]) on the recent changes page a few minutes ago, but it seems to be working now.  The spider I run that attempts to keep a backup of images has been getting error responses on nearly every request (after ten minutes of waiting) since late last night. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 16:06, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I have been editing Shared all day with no issues. There was a minor access blip on Shared and the regular site for a few minutes early this morning, but it's been fine since.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:08, 29 June 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== semi-problem logging in ==
 
 
I seem to be able to log in, and when editing my changes are saved under my name, but while navigating it keeps saying "Log in / create account" in the upper right corner, instead of "Justme - My talk - My preferences" etc. As soon as I start editing I do see all those account-related options. Does anyone know why that is? [[User:Justme|Justme]] 12:09, 1 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Yup, chronic problems with caching. This particular problem has been around for, yikes, something like 5-6 years, but is rearing its ugly head a little extra post upgrade. IB claims to be looking into it, as you'll see [[:wts:Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#Most_Urgent_bugs|here]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:38, 1 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Oh, I see. Hadn't encountered this specific bug yet. Thanks for the quick reply. [[User:Justme|Justme]] 14:12, 1 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Get Out is on the way out ==
 
 
Hi folks... if you haven't seen it, we've got a poll on options to change the name of our "Get out" sections to something less confusing.  This will be a widespread change, so we want as much input as possible on it.
 
 
The discussion is at [[Wikitravel talk:Article templates#Get out, again]].  After you read the discussion, check out the poll at [[Wikitravel talk:Article templates#Approval vote]].  For each of the options listed in the table, if you would be willing to accept that option, sign just your name with three tildes (<nowiki>~~~</nowiki>) in the second column, and increment the vote total in the rightmost column.  If you are not willing to accept an option, simply don't sign in that row.
 
 
As of right now, "Go next" is acceptable to seven of the nine people who've voted, followed by "Move on" and "Onward" at five each.
 
 
-- [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 15:07, 1 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
As a somewhat minor contributor, have no objection to changing the section title to something better.  Would suggest the new title consider that the section may be used by folks also looking for nearby sites to visit on day-trips while using the main locale as a base.  [[User:Hennejohn|Hennejohn]] 18:01, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Wikitravel still glacially slow? ==
 
 
Does anyone else feel that the site is basically just as slow as before the MediaWiki upgrade? This is the one thing that I most hoped the upgrade would fix, but it seems to me that things load just as slowly as before, especially here on en:, where I get to wait 15 seconds or more for even important pages like Recent Changes. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 12:16, 3 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: It took just over a minute to load the diff of your edit from the recent changes page for me.  While the slowness could be due to any number of reasons, there was some suspect editing activity earlier today (see [[User talk:Pranavk]]) and there has been a known Linux issue affecting many, many servers since 30-June - see http://lwn.net/Articles/504657/ (that issue affected my home server and slowed it down massively).  No clue whether either of those issues have any relevance to the current problems on Wikitravel, but something has definitely made things significantly slower lately. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 18:39, 3 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::WT is running on a brand new set of servers, one of which was replaced shortly after the upgrade was complete. Today the replacement machine was down for a short period of time but all is well now. What sorts of read/edot speeds are you experiencing yourself?
 
 
::Also FYI on Thursday 7/5/2012 we are switching to a new cacheing service that ought to result in improved overall performance (read & edit) and several bug fixes.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:14, 3 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::WT remains slow espcially when loading pages or initally starting to access WT. It's better compared to yesterday but still pretty slow compared to history.[[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 09:10, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: Things have been faster for me by a factor of about ten since late yesterday afternoon.  Prior to that I was seeing page load times of up to a minute and occasional timeouts. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 11:35, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Wikitravel is operating just as quickly, if not moreso, than Wikipedia for me.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 10:29, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::Agreed. Seems to have returned to normal here too. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 14:12, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== A project for anyone who wants to help ==
 
 
I've been playing with [[Special:LinkSearch]], which I assume to be a new feature since the upgrade, since I've never noticed it before. At any rate, it makes it pretty easy to spot hundreds of links which are not permitted in the main namespace by our [[Wikitravel:External links|external links policy]]. After eliminating a few dozen of them, I decided to appeal for help from anyone looking for something to do. Here are a few of the searches I tried:
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.facebook.com&namespace=0 Facebook] (social networking sites)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.tripadvisor.com&namespace=0 Tripadvisor] (rival travel guides)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.google.com&namespace=0 Google] (maps and search results)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.blogspot.com&namespace=0 Blogspot] (blogs)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.wikipedia.org&namespace=0 Wikipedia] (non-page-topic links)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.yahoo.com&namespace=0 Yahoo] (maps and search results)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.myspace.com&namespace=0 MySpace] (social networking sites)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.youtube.com&namespace=0 YouTube] (video sites)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.vimeo.com&namespace=0 Vimeo] (video sites)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.cnn.com&namespace=0 CNN] (news articles)
 
* [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:LinkSearch&target=http%3A%2F%2F%2A.wordpress.com&namespace=0 Wordpress] (blogs)
 
Anyone bored? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 23:19, 3 July 2012 (EDT)
 
: tex, not today but i have a conference upcoming, where i'm going to be definitely need to look busy ;-) [[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 03:15, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::Tex, it ain't easy to find the links. I tried [[Yerevan]] and i see Troll Pub but it has not ext.link. The search for Facebook results nothing. [[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 03:21, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Nifty tool!  Several of the above searches might turn up legitimate links, though.  Facebook, MySpace, and even Wordpress are more commonly used as websites for obscure little guesthouses than you might think.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:31, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::Agreed. I think we should alter slightly the [[Xl#What_not_to_link_to|policy]] to include the possibility of a blog or fb page being allowed when they are the only official web presence of a business.  [[User:Jjtk|Jjtk]] 03:50, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== What if the future looked like this? ==
 
Three separate discussions about [[Wikitravel_talk:External_links#Facebook|allowing Facebook links]],
 
[[Wikitravel_talk:Listings#web/email_format|web/email format]], and [[Wikitravel:Travellers'_pub#Templated_See_and_Do_listings|redesigning our templated listings format]] have got me thinking how we can update or modernize the way we present our information, and I've come up with a tentative proposal. It's really less a proposal and more just me throwing some ideas around, so I'm open to debate on any of the multiple points this will introduce, but I think the general idea is worth considering. Before I lay out the proposed changes though, I'd like to make some points and detail some reasoning behind the proposal.
 
* '''Social networking as contact information''' - Since WT started, social networking has grown drastically in importance as a means of communication, in some cases being now more important than phone numbers or emails, and surely in all cases more relevant than <strike>telegram</strike> fax.
 
** '''Facebook''' - As the [[Wikitravel_talk:External_links#Facebook|Facebook]] discussion points out, many establishments have only Facebook as their web presence, and consensus seems to be leaning towards allowing them in such cases. Even for those who have also a normal website, Facebook may provide a more convenient way of contact for travellers, since a huge portion of our users also have Facebook accounts.
 
** '''Twitter''' - Hasn't been discussed, but since Wikitravel has started, Twitter has taken over the web, and many many establishments have a twitter account, many users are bound to have accounts, and Twitter makes a more convenient avenue of communication for some than phone calls, full emails, etc. Twitter is especially popular with smaller accommodation owners, local restaurants, bars, music venues, and recreational activity providers, and even many mainstream attractions such as museums and festivals have an account.
 
** '''Skype''' - Many smaller restaurants and accommodations (e.g. hostels) have Skype accounts which would provide travellers with a free international phone call or text consultation. I know that I, for one, would be far more likely to call via Skype to book a room at a foreign destination than I would to call international long-distance via landline.
 
* '''Grouping all contact information''' - Within a listing, contact information should all be grouped together. As an aside, I will throw in the bold assumption that fax info can be eliminated as a now-outdated mode of communication unlikely to be used by travellers. For the purposes of this proposal, then, contact information will be taken to mean:
 
** '''Address''', including directions, if any
 
** '''Phone number'''
 
** '''Official website'''
 
** '''Email'''
 
** '''Facebook business page'''
 
** '''Twitter'''
 
** '''Skype'''
 
Accepting the above definitions as reasonable and assuming we can set up the templates to do what we want, the tentative proposition is simply this:
 
* We separate all the contact information, either into a separate column on the right or on a fresh line under the rest, leaving the lead to go directly from the name into the description, followed by hours and price.
 
* In the contact info part, the address and phone number are written out. Everything else gets just a small linked icon unless you print the page.
 
Template fiddling, spacing, which icon to use, how images are incorporated into such sections, etc. can all be worked out later, but I made mock-ups of a couple of layout ideas. I tried to include examples with an assortment of information quantities to approximate how it would look with the completeness of an average article.
 
Anyway, I'd like to call for your general comments and opinions, so... '''what if the future looked like this'''? :
 
* '''[[User:Texugo/Mock layout|Mock layout 1]]'''
 
* '''[[User:Texugo/Mock layout 2|Mock layout 2]]'''
 
* '''[[User:Texugo/Mock layout 3|Mock layout 3]]'''
 
[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 17:39, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:I don't know how to artificially display our standard bullet points and cannot make functioning icon links, so please use your imagination. Also, if you know how, feel free to mess around with the messily-coded mock-ups and/or make new ones, but please do so on a different page so these will be here for others to look at.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 17:54, 4 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I think these are some good ideas. I'd support the removal of 'fax', but I notice you've also removed 'alt' phone. A lot of Asian/African countries have multiple phone numbers, due to unpredictable landline connections. Some smaller businesses also give the option of mobile or landline; whichever is cheaper, or working. Therefore, I think that should stay. Facebook, Twitter and Skype accounts are a good idea, but we'd need to be careful about linking to "official" accounts, and not someone's fanpage. I'm leaning towards something along the lines of Mock layout 1, as it separates the information into where it belongs, whereas the others shove things like trading hours, price and descriptions. Mock layout 3 could be good if the left column was widened. One option could be automatic column width, so that if the left column gets a lot of text from things like directions, it would be wide, whereas if all it had was titles, it'd be narrow. But very nice work overall. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 06:45, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:::FWIW, I didn't intentionally leave out alt phone numbers. I just didn't think of them because they're are very rare in the vast majority of articles.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 08:42, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::::I made a similar proposal at Wikivoyage/de at our [http://www.wikivoyage.org/de/Wikivoyage:Lounge lounge]. Of course we implemented do, see and eat tags, but we use mainly a template named [http://www.wikivoyage.org/de/Vorlage:VCard vCard]. A template is more flexible and could easily be changed without programming. We use a template master to make the data entry simple but I hope that new Mediawiki versions will have its own graphical tool. By the way I prefer the first variant. --[[User:Unger|Unger]] 01:41, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::I agree with your assessment of the third mock up and have widened the left column somewhat. I also think that one would look slightly better if both the telephone number and the icons were on the same line but with the number left-aligned and the icons right-aligned (but still in the first column), instead of taking up two separate lines. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 11:39, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::::::I cannot speak to the prevalence of fax as means of communication in certain areas; it seems like it might still be used in some places, but I can't say for sure.  Is there any harm in leaving it?  Phoneextra is also useful for TDD/TTY numbers, though those are also going by the wayside.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 12:26, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::::The only harm it does is to work against economy of space. I just have a hard time imagining that more than the rarest of travellers would even consider sending a fax to make a dinner reservation or inquire about hotel vacancies these days, especially to/in a foreign country. Even in Asian countries where they are still more common, I think they are mostly used for inter-business purposes.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 13:13, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::::: I work in many countries.  Fax really has died over the last 5 years, so I do not think it is a problem to drop it completely.  If absolutely necessary somewhere, it could be put in as part of the text.  I like mock up 3!  However, I am not convinced of the value of adding Twitter.  There is a risk of too many icons littering a page.[[User:Davidbstanley|Davidbstanley]] 11:27, 6 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
[de-indenting]<br>
 
For fax (along with alt, checkin/checkout, and several other tags), I think we should just nix it from the listings editor, but keep it available if someone in the know wants to add it, for the relatively rare exceptions that would see them as useful.
 
 
I think adding facebook/twitter information is the right way to go, as businesses put out a lot of really useful information through both.  Hopefully we could create something more generic, though, to include other microblogs and personal social networking page sites.  (Evan [http://identi.ca] hasn't yet dethroned Twitter, but I'm bullish on destroying Facebook [http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/on-diasporas-social-network-you-own-your-data].)  I can't comment on skype—haven't yet worked it into my travel bag of tricks.
 
 
Texugo, I ''really'' like your first mockup—awesome stuff!  It would be good to make the hours stand out even more, though, as they are arguably the most important reference information we include.  Maybe italics?  Or color?
 
 
Unger, does your template work with the listings editor?  Keeping the listings editor will be crucial if we ever do launch into the yesteryear age of online editing...  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:04, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I'm poking around clker.com (PD icons), and found some that either would be great looking imported as is, or which I could edit a bit.  For urls, [http://www.clker.com/clipart-applications-internet.html] is pretty nice.  I could fix up one of these to make it look a little tweetier [http://www.clker.com/clipart-inetrnet-group-chat.html]  [http://www.clker.com/clipart-jovenez-1.html], and could ''try'' to fix one of these for social networking profiles [http://www.clker.com/clipart-social-network.html]  [http://www.clker.com/clipart-network-5.html].  Our email icon is fine, but these are a bit snappier [http://www.clker.com/clipart-mail-reply-sender.html] [http://www.clker.com/clipart-15038.html].  Adding an hours icon (basically any clock) could be another good way to highlight the ever-important hours field.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:20, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::I'm also partial to mock-up 1, and I totally agree about italicizing the hours. I've gone ahead and done that on the mock-up, and it works well to set that info apart from the description. As to icons, I'll get back to you on that, but I was basically just shooting to find ones that have the same background shape (couldn't find one for Skype). I'm leaning toward making the icons for facebook, twitter, and skype clearly indicate what they are though and wouldn't really like to use a generic that doesn't at least indicate something similar to their own icon. I like the idea for a clock icon, and I considered using one to replace our little phone symbol. It would be nice to mock up some stylistically matching sets of all the necessary icons since they'd always be sitting next to each other in random combinations. Anyway, choosing specific icons would be its own discussion if consensus gets behind this idea.[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 16:53, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::One thing I'm noticing is that the price info can get a little lost at the end of the hours line (which can vary wildly in length).  Perhaps move it back to the end of the description, and bold it?  Or we could have the price range follow a more eye-catching dollar icon?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:49, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::I like the layouts, Mock Layout 3 makes the address easy to find in a list of places, which is good in larger cities where maybe I am looking for somewhere to eat in the North side of the city. However I am not so sure about generally adding Facebook and Twitter links. If a business uses Facebook as its main internet presence then this can just go in place of a web address. I would not expect to look at Twitter as my first contact with a business, more as a way of staying in touch with somewhere that I already use. There may be the odd exception like an airport that tweets departure information, but then I think that we should take the trouble to say what is being tweeted. Unless devices are common that can only look at Facebook / Twitter and not web pages, then I think that the traveller should be directed to whatever is the best first point of contact and can then find other links from there (which helps to avoid getting fan pages added).[[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] 18:54, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Here's a bored half hour's worth of icon work from someone who probably isn't too good at this kind of thing...  Anyway, they are of even width & height, and conform in a very loose way to our usual color scheme!
 
 
[[File:Mouseworldicon.png|24px]] [[File:Atsignemailicon.png|24px]] [[File:Thisisnotatweeticon.png|24px]] [[File:Socialnetworkicon.png|24px]] [[File:Thisisnotaskypeicon.png|24px]]
 
 
Like 'em?  FTS?  Suggestions?  Anyone want an SVG of this?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:13, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:I appreciate the effort, Peter, but I gotta admit the icons don't mean anything to me.  A couple I can figure out with some concentration, but icons like these need to be immediately recognizable to be useful.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 22:24, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I'd disagree with that sentiment, if not the criticism of the icons, since you can always just hover your mouse over an icon to see what it's about.  In any rate, our current footnote looking things aren't immediately recognizable!  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:22, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::::Case in point! [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Pokhara&curid=5019&diff=1903243&oldid=1901873&rcid=1926127]  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:56, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::*'''Facebook''' I am concerned about the concept of Facebook linking. To include Facebook potentially opens a quite large can of worms in regard to patrolling. We have had plenty enough problems with @yahoo.com, @hotmail.com and @gmail.com email addresses. Especially in the 3rd world many providers use [http://www.zemskov.net/free-email-domains.html common domain] email addresses, or use them as a back up secondary email address.<br>In some regions (especially the Indian sub-continent) every time someone changes one of these addresses they need to be checked to ensure it is not a hijack attempt. This phenomena is particularly common in the Indian articles but appears elsewhere as well. It has occasionally been suggested we should eliminate these common domain email addresses from the articles. This is not practical as many quite legitimate and substantial providers use them. It would be unfair to a large body of providers and disadvantageous to travellers to eliminate them. Unless the provider is well known to the patrolling editor, or the common domain email address is published on the providers website or another authoritative source then it is often difficult and time consuming to determine legitimacy. Sometimes an extensive examination of edit histories is required to determine the bona-fides of the editor changing or adding the common domain contact.
 
::::☯To add Facebook listings to this mix seems to be asking for more trouble. Though it is of course understood that many traders do use Facebook accounts I have noted many Facebook accounts appear to be ''name holders'', similar in a way to registering a common domain name email address, or a domain name similar to that of a trader or product, and then sitting on it either to block use of it or to gain some advantage by selling it or using it to divert business to someone other than the principal business.
 
::::☯Perhaps we need to consider if FB is really even accepted as a formal communication vehicle, or is it more one of tagging and maintaining existing customer connection through often vacuous self promotion. I have also noticed that for many small operators a common domain email address and a Facebook account is their only web presence. Anecdotally it appears that Facebook does not work well for many third world tourism providers. Many small operators tell me they do not believe it provides them any tangible business opportunity and it is email, SMS, Telephone, Skype and positive Tripadvisor recommendations and referral that are far more important to their activities
 
::::☯The previous discussions concerning FB seem to have hovered over the idea of 'business' Facebook accounts being linked. For those who might use a Facebook account in replacement of a business website we must consider if they are really likely to use a revenue account with FB, it seems unlikely, therefore we are setting ourselves a near impossible task of assessing the 'commercial' relevance of individual FB accounts that may be associated with a business operator. There is also the issue of inactive FB accounts. Some people tire of the medium and neglect it, so if we link to an account such as this we are potentially adding a dead end contact.
 
::::☯Perhaps our endeavours would be better applied to ensuring the existing contact methods are accurate rather having our efforts diverted into an added burden of further account verification demands arising from FB and Twitter accounts and the questionable virtues of supporting a commercial opportunity for either IB, Facebook or Twitter arising from providing such links in the articles and then patrolling them for consistency and legitimacy.
 
::::☯I am unconvinced of the benefit to the project and not at all keen to commit my own time toward refining a potential revenue stream derived from FB clicks or the data mining and correlation models operated by FB and Twitter.
 
::::☯I am raising this here as I note the [[Wikitravel:External links]] guideline on this has been modified recently. Perhaps this requires a little more scrutiny, especially in regard to the potential outcomes in regions with a history of contact hijacking and also in regard to our own participation in developing the Facebook and Twitter commercial models by facilitating WT linking.
 
:::*'''Twitter''' seems to be reliant upon an always-on connectivity, this is irrelevant to much of the world, I think we should be wary of viewing the world through a lens narrowed by the hype of always-on connectivity. Also I wonder why we are allowing these 3rd party commercial links into the body of the article, we should not forget the core function of enterprises such as FB, it is to collect, collate, control and commercially disseminate data for commercial gain, it is not a benign vehicle of communication.
 
:::*'''Skype''' linking is a different thing, I thoroughly support that and it would be good to see a listing field added to the standard format asap. As for adding an icon for that, great idea. Skype is a service commonly used and very popular with travellers.
 
:::*'''Alt phone''' this should stay as it is essential to list more than one phone contact in some regions and PABX systems are rare in many 3rd world environments, I don't think it requires an icon though.
 
:::*'''Fax''' is difficult, some still use it for payment authorities and many banks and insurance companies will insist on faxing documents and will not accept email communications, having the number readily at hand in a WT article may assist the traveller in circumstances such as these so maybe it should remain as listing text detail, but not have an icon. --[[User:Felix505|felix]] 23:41, 6 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::I certainly agree with negative sentiments regarding Facebook. ''But'', small businesses—even those that have a real webpage—often update their personal facebook page with important information more frequently. In my endless search for details belonging in listings, I often cannot find hours information for small boutique restaurants, or current event listings for nightclubs or rock venues without looking into their Facebook page. Microblogs, such as those on Twitter, are a similar deal for finding current events.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 12:36, 7 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Shared repository message ==
 
 
When you visit an image page on en: for a file hosted on shared, you get a message that "This file is from a shared repository. Visit it's file description page.." etc. When did that message turn into a hot pink eyesore? Can we change it do something a little less jolting? [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 23:35, 5 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Yes, that was my handiwork at [[MediaWiki:Sharedupload-desc-there]] ;)
 
 
:It should be at least a little jolting, though.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:18, 6 July 2012 (EDT)  '''''→''' It should be better now 00:34, 6 July 2012 (EDT)''
 
 
::What's really interesting, though, is that Commons images are getting a different message (example: [[:File:Rosslyn Panorama 00092.jpg]]), which copies the image licensing and attribution information!  That message is [[MediaWiki:sharedupload-desc-here]].  Now how do we get that functionality for our own shared repository...?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:20, 6 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==It's quiet, a little ''too'' quiet==
 
 
Did I miss a holiday today or something? The only time I've seen so few edits in recentchanges has been on Christmas!  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:05, 7 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: Some of the more [[Special:Contributions/Ikan_Kekek|prodigious]] [[Special:Contributions/Eco84|editors]] seem to be missing today.  And the number of contributions seem to generally have been lower since the upgrade - some folks probably wandered off temporarily due to various upgrade bugs and should return as things stabilize. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 23:28, 7 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Maybe. It's weird though—I just patrolled the entire day's edits in 15 minutes.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:45, 7 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::I suspect I'm not the only one who sees little point in working on WT while we wait for [[#Moving_to_Wikimedia|the hammer to drop]]... [[User:Jpatokal|jpatokal]] 22:55, 9 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::Regardless of outcomes, I still want things in good shape here. The fact that I cannot block bots or delete pages right now frustrates that desire.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 01:48, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::Am I the only one then, who repeatedly could not reach Wikitravel, today and yesterday? I got the "Wikitravel has a problem" message. Maybe others had the same. [[User:Justme|Justme]] 08:39, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::There were scattered outages yesterday due to the cacheing change reported on Shared. Are you still having trouble editing? I made an edit with no issue.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:53, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::::I can edit with Chromium on the same PC, and Firefox on a different pc (same IP, different Firefox version), so I guess the issue is with Firefox 3.6.24?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:01, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::::Sounds likely. I'm on FF 13.0.1, so it's just possible some new updates left your ancient version behind finally?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:06, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Peter, tech recommends you remove ALL cookies and hard refresh; it may have cached something wonky. They're looking into potential conflicts with that FF version.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:26, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I'm able to edit as normally as of this evening EST!  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:42, 12 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Suggestion: Guidelines for Accommodations (price) ==
 
 
During my trip to (Southeast-)Asia I experienced often the situation that the budget and mid-range section where totally mixed up. Maybe it would be good to have a rough guideline for each place to sort the accommodations according to the price. <small>—The [[Wikitravel:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:Askingcat|Askingcat]] ([[User_talk:Askingcat|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Askingcat|contribs]]) </small>
 
:Every Sleep section should have a [[Template:Sleeppricerange]] nearby.  If one is missing, maybe you can [[Wikitravel:Plunge forward|add it]]!  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 09:12, 8 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Is that true? Should every sleep (and eat) section have one? Because most of our star articles don't, I think.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:49, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Well, every bottom-level (leaf-node) article.  At least, that's what I thought.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:03, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Coordinates ==
 
 
Hi! I'm new to Wikitravel (in the meaning of adding information). I would like to make suggestion, although probably it was discussed before on this page. I think it will be very convenient to have GPS coordinates near titles of places, especially in the See section. When I go to new place, usually I print relevant Wikitravel page and having coordinates there will be very helpful. Also it could very helpful to have linked appropriate Google map to the article, but probably it is out of scope of the project.
 
 
While I understand the nobody is able to add magically coordinates in the one moment, it would be nice to mention this somewhere in guidelines (if it is not yet) --[[User:DixonD|DixonD]] 10:27, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:You can find more information on the topic at [[Wikitravel:Geocoding]].  If you have ideas as to how those coordinates can best be displayed and utilized, please leave a message on the talk page!  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:05, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Also see [[Wikitravel:Geographical data and metadata]]. For adding geo data to listings, that's actually pretty easy, so long as they are properly formatted with our [[Wikitravel:Listings|listings tags]]. For a completely random example, look at [[Slough#See]] and click on the edit link at the end of the listing. In the listing editor that comes up, you can enter the coordinates into the lat and long fields.
 
 
::We used to have the ability to use [[special:mapstraction]] to pull up a Google Maps view of the article destination, but that doesn't seem to be functional now. In any rate, it wasn't that helpful, and probably just distracts from our mapmaking goals, which stress keeping the maps on-site, so that articles are easy to print and use on the go. In the not-yet-foreseeable future, one of our goals is to auto-generate maps of our listings on maps imported from OpenStreetMap, which shares our [[:wts:Copyleft|CC license]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:30, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Bugs, feature requests, and the future of Wikitravel ==
 
 
Please view and comment on this section on Shared [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Wikitravel_Shared:Travellers%27_pub#Bugs.2C_feature_requests.2C_and_the_future_of_Wikitravel Bugs, feature requests, and the future of Wikitravel].--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 20:46, 10 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Thank you. --[[User:DavidCary|DavidCary]] 12:43, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==Lost discussion==
 
 
I can't for the life of me find the discussion in which we were talking about having the ability to up/down-vote and to mark-as-correct listings, with a trusted class of reviewers and editors. Does anyone know what happened to it?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:25, 11 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: I think that was [[Wikitravel:Business listings reliability Expedition]].  The discussions are mostly on the talk page. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 16:33, 11 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Support for email notification? ==
 
 
Please see [[Shared:Tech:Enable_Email_Verification_and_Notification|Enable Email Verification and Notification]] and add your X to the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Roadmap|Roadmap]] if you like it.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:58, 12 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Today, email notifications have been enabled. The feature defaults to "off" so you will not receive any until you switch it on and confirm your email in your User Profile.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:45, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:FYI for those not following Shared, this changed basically has disabled email without notice for all users who registered prior to 27 July 2012. To re-enable yours, use [[Special:ConfirmEmail]] and be sure to update your [[special:preferences|email preferences]] to enable only those notifications that you actually want.
 
 
:This is a big problem, though, in that the vast majority of our past and present users are not following pub discussions, and will not know that their Wikitravel email functionality has been disabled.  Please also see [[:wts:Tech:Enable Email Verification and Notification]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:54, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::It looks as though this issue has been fixed, and that email is working fine once more.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:55, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Spam Page ==
 
I'm moving a discussion from my talk page here to see if anyone else has seen these error messages or experience the same problem. Ryan also posted this to [[Wikitravel talk:How to handle unwanted edits#Important - blocking spambots]].
 
-------------------------------------------
 
You're shown as the author of [[User:Chen47vk7]], which is a spambot page.  Any idea what's going on?  Is this another upgrade bug? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 16:09, 14 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:When I tried logging in earlier, I got a message that (I think) said something about being prevented from logging in to prevent account being compromised or something like that. The time of those edits is about the time I logged in (or tried to). I'm on a public wi-fi network...maybe that has something to do with that? [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 16:15, 14 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: You're the second "normal" account I've seen today that had a spambot page created.  It may be an upgrade bug, but if you see that message again can you copy it and add it to this thread? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 17:01, 14 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
[[Image:Login_error.JPG|thumb|300px|Screenshot 1]]
 
Today after clicking the "log in" in the upper right, then entering my username & password and hitting enter, I got the screen at right. I think what I did on the 14th was re-enter my password at this screen, after which I got the message I mentioned about being compromised or something like that. This time I clicked the WT image in the top right to return to the homepage, where I was still "logged in" as this spambot (?). I just closed the window (my Firefox setting is to clear cookies when exiting) and came back to WT to log in...without incident. These two instances are the only two times I've ever seen this message...my browser should accept cookies. Using my home internet this time. Maybe this is a bug. (BTW:Message is in a grey box because I highlighted it to copy/paste, but then decided to capture a screenshot with the message still highlighted). [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 05:49, 16 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
[[Image:Login_error2.JPG|thumb|300px|Screenshot 2]]
 
:I got the log in error message in the second screenshot when I tried to log in today...the same one I got the first time. Happened in the same way as the last two times: clicked on "log in" from WT homepage, entered by username & password on the following page and hit enter. Again, notice that I appear to be logged in as a spambot. This time I entered my password on this page and clicked "log in", but checking my "user contributions" it doesn't look like any spam edits have been made by my account. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 22:39, 16 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: There was a bug fixed in Mediawiki 1.17.2 that apparently would allow a script running on your machine to "steal" session information - if you're on Windows, do you run a virus scanner?  Otherwise you might want to try clearing cookies and see if the problem goes away.  Alternately, it's possible that a malicious Google ad or something similar could be stealing session info via the aforementioned bug.  For what it's worth I reported the problem to IB and requested that they upgrade to the latest bugfix release. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 22:58, 16 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
[[Image:LoginError3.JPG|thumb|300px|Screenshot 3]]
 
:::I was adding another comment when you added yours. I do run a virus scanner and like I said in the first post, my browser setting are set to delete cookies when the browser is closed (just double-checked this). Should this be moved to the pub for others to comment on? ''So after making the last comment, I went to my watchlist to patrol recent edits and got the message shown in the third screenshot while making a couple edits. After logging back in, I checked my contributions, but no spam edits made by my account. Since the upgrade, I seem to get logged out of my account anywhere from 15-45 minutes after logging in (a rough guess) and this happened 20 minutes after logging in (based on difference between timestamps on the images' metadata).'' [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 23:04, 16 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: It probably wouldn't hurt to give this issue wider exposure in the [[Pub]] since it hasn't just been your account - I just deleted a spambot page credited to [[User:AndreCarrotflower]].  I've also raised this issue at [[Wikitravel talk:How to handle unwanted edits#Important - blocking spambots]]. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 00:15, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
---------------------------------------
 
So has anyone else seen this or seen these error messages? [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 01:28, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Yes, I was receiving them after last Monday's caching server upgrade (at least I think that's what it was), and received them July 9th-12th. I only received them in one browser on one computer (Firefox 3, Ubuntu 10.04). On the 13th I was able to edit again as normally. I didn't report on site because it was too much of a pain to edit!  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:43, 18 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I've been getting these messages every time I've logged in since the 14th. Upgraded from Firefox 13 to 14.0.1 today (on Windows 7 SP1, for what it's worth), but that hasn't changed anything. Only the first time this happened were spam edits "made" by my account. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 02:12, 18 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::I got it today for the first time.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:53, 18 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::We are working to implement a security patch this week. Thank you all.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:10, 18 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::No hurry, [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User%3AIphones2q&action=historysubmit&diff=1902158&oldid=1902106 since you're a spambot yourself now].  (Oh, the irony!) [[User:Jpatokal|jpatokal]] 09:34, 24 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::::::Jani, just placed the irony on IBobi's talk page. It would be ironic if it wouldn't kill Wikitravel rather soon. It's really sad to see the project unfold on its own. If anyone needs arguments against IB, then we show this discussion. [[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 09:41, 24 July 2012 (EDT)
 
The MW 1.17.2 patch was deployed early this morning Pacific time. Please let me know as soon as possible if it has not addressed the spambot issue and the deletion problem.
 
If earnest attention to and resolution of a MW software bug is an "argument against" the host, Jc, I really don't know what to tell you. A patch this size cannot be deployed hastily, lest the functionality of the site itself be jeopardized.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:20, 24 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:When we have big problems affecting the integrity of the site, I think Wikitravellers' patience with IB's business hours wanes. We work around the clock, around the globe to maintain some semblance of wikidignity on a site that is hard for me to even edit, still. It took around 5 minutes to load this page's history and then the diffs since my last visit just right now.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:00, 24 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Sorry it's been slow today, Peter; as I mentioned in earlier notes regarding the upgrade that occurred today, site speed will be slow because it's a patch to the entire site, which then requires some time for the cache to rebuild. This is a huge site, and there's no way around it. Upgrading takes a temporary toll on site speed -- it has nothing at all to do with it being IB that made the upgrade. It's a software bug with MediaWiki that we needed to resolve.
 
 
::Some things just take time. It wasn't business hours that caused the week delay; it's our care in ensuring that the upgrade would be done well and would not compromise the site. We go from investigating the issue, to investigating a solution, to putting the solution on a staging server, testing it there, then putting it into production on the live site here. Hopefully you understand, and thank you for your help in reporting and resolving this.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:12, 24 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::: According to recent changes "I" have just created a new account called User:Rdidonato41... one of many probable spam accounts. And as I said on shared before, I still need to reload almost every page (half of the time not even that works, I have to go back one page and forwards again to get the page.) /insert swearing word of your choice/ [[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 02:20, 30 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Cache was fully cleared yesterday (as you could see from slowness); this should have propagated all changes made since the patch last week. Please report if spambot spooling issue persists.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:09, 31 July 2012 (EDT)
 
---------------------------------------
 
Was my account taken over? In the morning I couldn't edit and got a message that I was blocked for spamming.  [[User:Jjtk|Jjtk]] 07:54, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:Same thing happened to me yesterday. I also noticed that Travellers' Pub was missing from the nav bar, and when I tried to edit a page, I got the message below...
 
You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason:
 
Your IP address has been automatically blocked because it was used by another user, who was blocked by Ikan Kekek. The reason given is this:
 
Autoblocked because your IP address has been recently used by "Hdfs9f2qb".
 
The reason given for Hdfs9f2qb's block is: "Spambot"
 
• Start of block: 08:49, 2 August 2012
 
• Expiry of block: 08:49, 3 August 2012
 
• Intended blockee: 10.17.32.138
 
You may contact Ikan Kekek or one of the other administrators to discuss the block.
 
Note that you may not use the "e-mail this user" feature unless you have a valid e-mail address registered in your user preferences and you have not been blocked from using it.
 
Your current IP address is 10.17.32.138, and the block ID is #10618. Please include all above details in any queries you make.
 
:I was unable to email [[User:Ikan Kekek]] because my email address was no longer registered. When I tried to re-register, I got the following message...
 
Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.
 
:Good news is that I was allowed in again today, and able to re-register my email. [[User:Jnich99|Jnich99]] 01:32, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
We have a solution we'd like to implement on the spambot spooling accounts issue; please see [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Spambots Spambots] and the comments from Ryan and myself. Weigh in if you have any information or opinion. We'd like to do this soon.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:24, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Spambots are doing more than just creating accounts from existing non-spambot accounts. They look to be making edits with others' accounts too. See [[Special:Contributions/Faust38]] and his/her user log [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Log&user=Faust38], who has a good, normal edit, plus a spam edit for insurance accompanied by a user creation for a spam insurance account.
 
 
:This is so awful, and isn't getting fixed. I'm starting to feel like it's time to make a final back up of data (or use the last one and manually integrate the good changes since) and to pack our bags.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:05, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Editting on iOS? ==
 
 
I can't seem to edit pages when using my iOS device. Am I missing something? It seems to work fine when using Android... -- [[User:Tsandell|Tim]]  08:25, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:What issues are you having specifically? Have you been able to edit on iOS in the past, and only having the problem recently? It could be related to the recent MediaWiki upgrade. Personally, I can edit using my phone (HTC Windows Phone) <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 08:30, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::I've not tried editing on iOS before so I'm not sure if it's a new thing or not. When viewing any page on either Safari or Chrome, after clicking to see normal versions of the pages (as opposed to mobile versions) it will show up the "edit" links - but then if I click on it, I get the edit page but back in the mobile version, but the wiki code isn't in a text box which you can edit. Hope that makes sense... -- [[User:Tsandell|Tim]]  09:01, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::: Okay, so now it's kinda working now. I'm using Chrome on iOS and when trying to edit it still takes me back to the mobile version which is formatted differently and can't be edited. But with Chrome there's a "request desktop version" option which shows the normal desktop version of the page and allows you to edit as normal. It's still a bit of a hassle though. -- [[User:Tsandell|Tim]]  15:38, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: I have the same problem on Android as well.  If you want to edit, you can't let the site know you are on a mobile device, otherwise it keeps flicking back to it.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 21:47, 17 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== User page exists but user account not registered ==
 
 
I was going to blank and protect a User page that has been subject to numerous spam edits and deletions. When I went to edit it though, I got the following message:
 
 
"User account "xxxxx" is not registered. Please check if you want to edit/create this page."
 
 
Has anyone seen this message before? It seems odd that it recognizes the page as a user account but the account is not registered (and that my editing would register it). - [[User:Shaund|Shaund]] 10:42, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Editing the page would not register the user account; the warning is there because it is usually not desirable to create a page in the User: namespace without an attached account.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:21, 21 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== How do I move pages? ==
 
How are pages moved? I tried to move [[Sigtuna]] to [[Sigtuna and Stockholm-Arlanda Airport]], without result. Thanks in advance. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 20:14, 22 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: Moving pages appears to be broken at the moment, please see [[:shared:Tech:Move feature not working on en:]].  However, in that specific case, I would not move the page, as airports [[wiaa|usually do not get their own articles]]; you could set up a redirect from ''Stockholm Airport'' or ''Stockholm-Arlanda Airport'' to [[Sigtuna]] instead.  — [[User:Dguillaime|D. Guillaime]] 20:26, 22 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: That's a thing to discuss at [[Talk:Stockholm]]. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 14:10, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::: So, is there any hope that the bug will get fixed? /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 19:13, 25 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::The ability to move pages seems to have been restored as of July 31. [[User:Eco84|Eco84]] 14:51, 31 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::That redirect would be entirely out of bounds. Sigtuna is a town and thus a perfectly normal title for a travel guide. Stockholm-Arlanda Airport is an airport which happens to be situated in the county of Sigtuna. [[User:Riggwelter|Riggwelter]] 10:14, 23 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::: Does [[Stockholm-Arlanda Airport]] justify an article on its own? [[Wikitravel:What is an article?]] is unclear; the examples provided are larger than Arlanda. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 20:41, 24 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::::: Having gone through this before, the consensus was that airports get their own article ''only'' if they are extremely large ''and'' confusing. Most airports don't qualify for this; for instance, [[Atlanta#By plane|Atlanta]]'s airport is the busiest in the world, but its layout is actually pretty straightforward, so there's not much to say about it. There's not much need for a listing of restaurants and shops in the airport, because most large airports already have a decent website with that information.  So in short, '''no''', I doubt Stockholm's airport needs its own article.
 
 
::::::: (For reference, the only airports that currently have their own articles on WT are O'Hare, Kansai, Chubu, and London-Heathrow.) [[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 12:53, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::::: I concur. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 14:36, 15 September 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Itinerary advice - Erie Canal ==
 
 
I'm currently writing the [[Erie Canal]] itinerary article, and I'd appreciate some input regarding whether I'm on the right track or not.  I've never written an itinerary article before and I want to make sure it's starting out okay before I get too far into it.  Please comment on the article's talk page.  Thanks!  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:31, 25 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==Nowiki tag broken?==
 
Tried to use the nowiki tag in [[Wikitravel:Currency]] without desired result. Is there an alternative? /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 08:41, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 
:It works on wiki markup and HTML tags, but it seems it's not working on HTML entities like &amp;nbsp; and &amp;ndash;.  I don't know if this is a bug or expected behavior.  Fortunately, there's an easy workaround; the &amp;amp; entity produces an ampersand, which you can use to write out the entity without having the character display.  (See the source code for this paragraph for examples.)  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 12:06, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 
::[[:wikipedia:Help:Wiki markup#Nowiki]] indicates that this is expected behavior of the <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> tag.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 12:13, 27 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==[[Arctic]] and [[Traveling in cold weather]]==
 
Started two new topics. I would appreciate contributions and cross-links. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 14:53, 29 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Cache rebuilding today ==
 
 
We have deployed a code update that will require the site's cache to rebuild today, slowing performance until the cache is again whole. Usually this takes a day, give or take, with performance steadily increasing to pre-update levels. Early in this process, it's possible you will see a 503 error. Thank you--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:35, 30 July 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Not only have I seen a lot of 503 errors; I also keep getting the following error message when attempting to save text I wrote in a user's talk page that previously was empty:
 
 
:Internal error
 
 
:Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.
 
 
:What is that junk, and why is that message being shown? The site is also slower than I've ever experienced other than times when it was impossible to edit at all. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 04:41, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Which user page are you trying to write on? I can take a look and see if it can be reproduced; but today I am seeing site speed beginning to approach page loads of 3-4 seconds, and I have not seen that particular error.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:32, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::[[User talk:Danielfeihu]], for example, but I got that message repeatedly while trying to edit the Travellers' Pub, too; other user talk pages; and when trying to delete a spam user page. And the site is still almost unbearably slow. Are you using various different browsers, or only IE? For the record, I use Firefox 14.0.1[[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 04:54, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::: OK, now I've logged out, deleted _all_ of my cookies, cleared my cache, logged back in, and _Still_ get this same error message when I try to edit a user talk page, such as [[User talk:Edralin]]. This is very annoying, because it's important to inform touters of why and how they're running afoul of Wikitravel rules and guidelines. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::: Do you see interwiki links and the link at the top of the page to [[Wikitravel:Votes for deletion]] on [[Special:RecentChanges]]?  I was seeing that behavior yesterday until clearing all cookies, cache, etc.  One guess as to why some people are having issues is that IB has at least one bad server in their cluster, and if you have the bad luck to hit it then the site behaves poorly (note that most modern clusters will try to keep users on the same server, so if you hit it once you're stuck on it until you force your way off). -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 11:09, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:::::: I do now, but I didn't yesterday. My last edit to this page, below, took, but I got an "internal error" message after hitting "enter" to post it. Very strange goings-on on this site, quite a lot of them, and it's been going on on and off for a long time now. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 16:10, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
+
== Business Listings: How Much is too Much? ==
  
Servers are being rechecked. If there's any slowness in one of them we'll pull it from the cluster and replace it. Note that I'm not seeing error reports from other users at this time.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
+
Earlier today, a bus company that operates New Zealand's largest passenger transport network with daily services from Auckland to many towns and cities in the Waikato region made an account, and proceeded to add their listing to a WHOLE BUNCH of pages, which looked like spam from my end. Should we allow companies to add their listings to more than a certain number of pages? Yes? No? If we do, what could be the ramifications? What could potential questions, comments, and or snide remarks could arise?  -- <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User: Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User_talk: Tonikar|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/Tonikar|contribs]]) </small>
  
:Please read the following discussion in my user talk page: [http://wikitravel.org/en/User_talk:Ikan_Kekek#Block_ID_.2310618]. How is it that blocking spambots is causing so many innocent users to be blocked? This is _really bad_! [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 16:06, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
+
: Good question. But I think their listing should only be added to the city where their headquarters is located (and maybe to small cities and towns where they are the only choice to get into). Just imagine if we allow this bus operator to add all its lines to Wikitravel articles, we will soon see chain restaurants, hotels, and other business add listings to all places where they operate (actually, we've seen quite a few cases like this before), which will soon turn Wikitravel to a yellow page. Plus our policy about [[Wikitravel:Don't tout#Don't list the same place many times|touting]] is pretty clear about this: ''...businesses should be listed in only one article for the town or district in which the business operates... ''.  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 04:21, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
::RE: performance issue, we did find a couple of servers running slower than the rest, and those have been fixed. We should see a site performance boost as well as the reported missing links issue resolution.
+
::I agree with Binbin, we'd better stick to our [[Wikitravel:Don't tout#Don't list the same place many times|touting]] policy. The risk of having chains adding their listings everywhere is too high (and we're not the Yellow Pages, aren't we?). [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 05:24, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
::I replied to the blocking issue on your page.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 16:50, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::If you are in New Zealand without a car, it is likely that you will use Intercity to get around. I think that there is only one other operator (Naked Bus) with a smaller national network and some regional operators (Atomic etc) and for a few destinations trains. So I think that it is fine to mention them in the get in section. However we don't need the full details about WiFi etc in every article. I would prefer that some information was added about the services to a particular destination - e.g. "X has two coaches per day from Auckland via Hamilton and one from Wellington via Napier. Coaches stop outside the post office." [[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] ([[User talk:AlasdairW|talk]]) 10:55, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
:::And I replied to you.
+
::::AlasdairW, and Binbin bring up good points. This could be a slippery slope, but on this one occasion since they are one of the few transportation services listed on our site in some areas it seems relevant and helpful. Would it be okay if they specified amenities for travelers per each location? [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 9:27, 17 March 2017 (PST)
  
:::I continue to be unable to put text onto currently empty user talk pages. I get the "internal error" and then have been able to confirm that no text was added. (At least when I post to the Travellers' Pub, despite the "internal error" message, my edits are currently showing up.) Are you working on that bug? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 17:05, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::::I agree that we should stick with our policy, have the business listed once, probably best the country article, and there list some specific amenities if that adds value. In our [[Wikitravel:External links|external links]] policy it says clearly what not to list to, so if we make an exception for one business, soon more will follow. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 12:40, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
::::Wikitravel's speed is finally back to normal, but I continue to be unable to add text to currently-empty user talk pages. For example, when I tried to add a welcome/thanks message to [[User talk:Nicho Pratama]], I got the same damn "internal error" message, and I have confirmed that my edit did not go up. Do you understand why this annoying bug is happening? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 16:41, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::::Would it be good to review our policy, and add an addendum for the amount of posts that a company has added/ can add? Also, should we be reviewing these on a case by case basis; especially if we think it could be helpful for the traveler? Like AlasdairW, had said that it is likely you will come across this company's transportation system in NZ if travelling without a car...  [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 1:42, 17 March 2017 (PST)
  
:::::And I got the "internal error" when posting the reply above, but at least the text I added showed up here. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 16:45, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
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I'm torn on this one too. First, I love Alasdair's point that a business should take the time, if they are going to try this, to make EACH listing specifically relevant to that page. If they don't want to take the time to point out the relevancy of their business to that particular destination (and they ought to be encouraged by us to do so), they should not have the privilege of being listed here.  
  
::::::This site has gone feral, I just made an edit, entered it in under the last appearing contribution from Ikan ( [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)). Then after several attempts to get the newly edited page to load I cannot see my recent edit, then noticing the content looked different I found it way up the page, I have now moved it down. Note the time line incongruous date stamps to illustrate this anomaly in caching behaviour. It is rather frustrating having to click away for at a page an extended time to get it to load. When I loaded the edit again it did the same thing again, everything below Ikan's earlier edit, including my subsequent 2 edits had again vanished requiring a further forced page reload to bypass the caching. Very messy! -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 13:49, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
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Second, I am at a loss to find something wrong with listing a business on multiple pages, if those pages do not contain any (or a very small number) similar options. In this case, if you are considering traveling to a small town in NZ that is only served by this bus company, we ought to provide details as to how to catch a bus into/out of there if we have them. What is the harm? Now, if this is, say, New York City, where there are interminable bus and other transportation options for getting in and out, I would say that allowing companies to list all of them would be disastrous for Wikitravel, and of limited to zero use for the traveler. And don't even get me started on chain restaurants!
::::::(''the moved edit)'' Last few editing sessions I have to make multiple attempts to load an article page in standard (read) view. Generally an entirely empty page is displayed, Anyone know what this is all about? -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 13:40, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::::::: Yeah... since over a week it's more of a rule than an exception to get a blank page. Reloading doesn't help but going one page back and one forward to the page you wanted to open seems to do. XP  [[User:Ypsilon|Ypsilon]] 00:42, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
Over the weekend, tech has been looking into whether this is a cacheing issue or a problem with a particular type of edit. They're still working, and I'll update as I get more information. Thank you,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:00, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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So perhaps there is a middle ground? Where there are many existing options, disallow the listing; where there are none or very few, allow them; and when allowed, the listing must be customized to that destination. And when we see a company engaging in this behavior, we ought to make contact with them as soon as possible, guide them, and have them provide a proposed list of everywhere they are intending to add their listing, as well as the specifics of how they will customize their listing to the page, BEFORE they spam it out everywhere publicly. How's that sound? [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 19:29, 22 March 2017 (EDT)
  
:Can someone create an actual bug report (or reports) of the issues mentioned here? We'd like a central repository, rather than some remarks on the Pub, some on various Talk pages, that the technicians can refer to and respond. A great place to link the new bug page(s) is [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Top_bugs Top Bugs].--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:02, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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: I agree. In principle, listing on multiple pages is not allowed , except where similar choices are limited and/or there're none or only a few similar listings (we do have this "something is better than nothing" policy). Yes, a prior communication with the companies who want to put their listings on multiple page sounds even better so that on one hand they can do it properly with our help, on the other we can kind of make sure things don't go out of control. I think we can start with this bus operator in NZ. What do you guys think?  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 01:40, 23 March 2017 (EDT)
  
::I added [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Spambots Spambots]. Other issues I see reported here that need bug reports added to [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Top_bugs Top Bugs] are:
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== Map based wikitravel ==
  
:::1. Internal Error/Inability to put text into empty Talk pages, reported by Ikan
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Hello!
:::2. Edits appearing out of sequence (?), reported by felix
 
:::3. Last few editing sessions I have to make multiple attempts to load an article page in standard (read) view. Generally an entirely empty page is displayed. Reloading doesn't help but going one page back and one forward to the page you wanted to open seems to, reported by felix and Ypsilon
 
  
:Any others? And is anyone else seeing these behaviors, or just the one individual who's posting them?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:51, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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I wish to introduce a map based wikitravelish website impressionmap.org
  
:: I don't see see it on English, but almost every edit I make on shared reports "Internal error" with the message "Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.".  The edits have been saved every time, but this sounds like the same issue others are reporting. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 23:21, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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I'm an avid reader and planned all trips based on info here. A big thanks first! However, articles are organized by meaningless place names (it's the only choice though), and it's not straightforward to figure out which place is where. Thus, planning bigger trips involves going back and forth between here and Google Maps, taking a long time.
  
::: I spoke too soon - the same error just occurred on English Wikitravel while trying to save the above edit. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 23:21, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
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It may be better to organize info by map itself and attach it to the map as snippets which will appear or disappear based on zoom level. More info and links can be added as popups. So I made the aforementioned website. You can zoom in to Amherst, MA or NYC (worse option as not much info is added) to see how it works. By the way, the website doesn't seem to work on IE and renders a bit ugly on browsers released before March 2017
  
::::I just got this error when trying to post a new section in the pub. I got the internal error, so went back and resubmitted, only to find the section was saved twice with a duplicate. This is particularly bothersome. ...And now as I try to make this post and correct the duplicate, I've encountered a 503 about 10 times and very slow loading times. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 05:56, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
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Asking for advice and opinions! If you would, edit it as well!
  
:::::Still happening for me, I never get error messages but do need to 'reload' pages, it occurs both when viewing and when editing/previewing.--[[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:11, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
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Hopefully this is the right place to do such introduction. No bad intention, just wish to make travel info presentation more intuitive and trip planning easier
 +
[[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] ([[User talk:Wkenmomo|talk]]) 14:16, 1 June 2017 (EDT)
  
:::::: Hmm, I spoke too soon. I clicked on <nowiki>[Save page]</nowiki> for the edit above and while it ground away trying to upload that edit I went off to another page I had got bored with previously whilst waiting for it to load, there I found this instead of the anticipated page at [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Bangalore&curid=3186&diff=1906854&oldid=1906627  [[Bangalore]] Latest revision as of 20:02, 6 August 2012]<br>
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: Sorry for such a late response! We appreciate your time spent on Wikitravel -- especially for adding edits to the Liaocheng page. We hope to see more thoughtful edits like the ones you have provided. Thanks for the info! --[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 01:50, 06 June 2017 (PST)
:::::: Error 503 Service Unavailable<br>
 
:::::: Service Unavailable<br>
 
:::::: Guru Meditation:<br>
 
:::::: XID: 1096408257<br>
 
:::::: Varnish cache server<br>
 
  
:::::: So I copied the error message and came back here to make this enthralling discovery known to others, and clicked again on the edit link for this section of the now loaded Pub page. But I was thwarted, my recent edit I had just seen with my own eyes on the displayed ''Pub'' page was not in the edit pane, the last edit viewable there was that of <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 05:56, 7 August 2012 (EDT). <br>
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:: Hey [[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]]! I finally got a chance to check out the website you had created, and I think its pretty cool! I like that it sums up exactly where I may want to travel if I want to shop, or find out more about American history! I was wondering -- and you kind of explained already-- but your purpose for creating a map that works as so? How would this help benefit Wikitravel users? Thanks! --[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 012:39, 07 June 2017 (PST)
:::::: So I reloaded the page again then again clicked to edit, this time the copy and markup was there, so here I am to share this astounding information and there (above) is the Error 505 message. So I guess that indicates I am also now getting error messages as well as blank pages on page read, and page edits and edit previews. And all this has probably taken more time than to patrol a day of 'watched' articles.--- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:33, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::::Also I might add I have seen paint dry faster than it takes a page to load here--[[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:38, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::::::::Editing here is like trying to grab smoke with your hands, it is almost impossible and now I am also getting "''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still does not work, try logging out and logging back in.''". I am giving up.--[[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:25, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
Ryan, JamesA, felix, ypsilon, Ikan: since you are all reporting some version of a cacheing error -- or at least an inability to edit/getting a message when editing -- can you report the exact behavior you are engaging in when these errors occur? Also, where geographically you are? Our error logs are not showing the errors you are reporting. Nor has anyone (including me, who makes many edits per day on WT) internally seen these errors lately. So, any information you can provide so that we can troubleshoot this would be helpful. Thank you!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 17:36, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
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::: Hey [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]], sorry for the late reply. Why I create it is that I want a more direct way of accessing geo info. I used to read here, search on Google Map, write what it is about and save it in my maps to compare with others. A great hassle and Google maps aren't designed for this. My purpose is to make designing "optimized" trips easier and I really hope to plan my next trip to Canada intuitively and effortlessly. Do wikitravel need a dynamic map? Wikitravel is welcome to host this map and embed it to the right zoom and boundary. The map is itself editable.[[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] ([[User talk:Wkenmomo|talk]]) 13:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
  
:I am using an Indonesian ISP (PT Telkom Indonesia) 125.167.XXX.XXX. The problems are occurring on loading a read page, an editing preview and an edit. I somewhat tired of editing after the "''Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data''" message repeated a few times. I did log out and logged back in and completed that edit. Following that I continued with an other edit on a different article, the article's read page loaded after my edit but registered no change to the article and no record of the edit available on the history page. I then back-paged to the previous edit pane view page (this then re-displaying the unresolved edit content again), clicked on <nowiki>[Save page]</nowiki> again and the edit subsequently resolved correctly. Now I will no doubt have to endure another trip on the mystery tour when I attempt to resolve this note on the Pub page. Also when logging in it takes me three page load attempts to get the login to occur. I just clicked on the side bar link for the Main page whilst in the read view of the Pub page, it took 5 reload prompts (from the address line) before the page started to load. The cache and cookies had been cleared and the browser 'reset' since the previous session reported in the posts above. (Postscript - Yes as I suspected I am repeating the experience and this edit is also requiring some revisits to get it to happen)..-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:32, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
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::::[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]], [[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] I think it would be a great idea to include links to Wikimapia. I'm working on US Hwy 2 between Monroe and Stephens Pass. Here is an example of what you get for [[Skykomish_(Washington)]] [http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=47.710000&lon=-121.360000&z=13&m=b&search=Skykomish]. We could actually provide links to WikiTravel on the WikiMapia page. Ideas? [[User:Kgrr|Kgrr]] ([[User talk:Kgrr|talk]]) 08:46, 9 July 2017 (EDT)
  
:I'm in Melbourne, Australia. I got the 503 about ten times, and it took me about 20 minutes to ''save'' the above post. The page loaded forever, and would timeout to a 503. Eventually it finally did save the edit, but my screen went blank and there was no confirmation. Like felix, it's getting to the point where I'm not going to bother editing and posting here because it's far too much of an effort. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 02:16, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
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== Added section ==
  
::Cacheing issues should now be resolved. You should no longer see any 503 errore. Please report if you see any *other* errors though.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:19, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
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Homosexuality is illegal in India under a colonial-era law (Section 377) dating back to 1860 that criminalize sodomy with penalties of Homosexuality is illegal in India under a colonial-era law (Section 377) dating back to 1860 that has sentences of life imprisonment, fines, beatings and viligante executions. The law has been used to harass the LGBT community and to force them into hiding. Police officers have harassed, extorted and blackmailed, beat, and turned a blind eye to violence towards homosexuals and transexuals in India. Businessess and public accomodations are not LGBT-friendly and will deny you. LGBT are emphatically discouraged from visiting.  <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User: 2600:1:f102:19e1:c03:aa02:d96d:bb58|2600:1:f102:19e1:c03:aa02:d96d:bb58]] ([[User_talk: 2600:1:f102:19e1:c03:aa02:d96d:bb58|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/2600:1:f102:19e1:c03:aa02:d96d:bb58|contribs]]) </small>
  
:::It took 4 page reloads to log in from WT:Recentchanges page. Still broken from where I am looking at it. I am not going to try any edits in addition to this one, it was maddening the last time I was here and a complete time suck. Maybe when it is fixed I will try again.I am not going to tempt fate looking to see if the 503 error is still going to pop up on my screen, oh, here something new ... clicking on the tides at, or any other html shortcuts on the editing page makes the page move up to the top, no effect on the edit pane content, nothing appears there, just the 'jump' upwards of the page display--guess I will just type in the 4 tides. --  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:42, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
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: Hi, thank you for your recent contributions. But for your disputes with other users, I have to say I prefer current wording about LGBT which is in a more neutral tone. Yes, India is, compared to many western countries, of a more conservative view about LGBT, but progresses have been made with the ruling from the Supreme Court about LGBT rights and increased awareness. From what my understanding, LGBT people have gained wider acceptance in India over the years. So I think like many other sensitive issues, we should stay to facts and refrain from exaggerating any one-sided views. Plus, personally, as a foreigner who's visited India quite a few times I find general Indians very friendly and welcoming, and I think as long as one uses common sense and not publicly display intimacy when visiting India, they won't face any problems. Would love to hear more comments about this though.     --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 05:37, 6 January 2018 (EST)
:::* Oh, so that was fun, the Save page click gave this "''Internal error Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.''" -- type the tides again as the shortcut is still inactive --[[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:42, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::*That gave "''Edit conflict: Wikitravel:Travellers' pub''" . I will try again. -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:42, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::*Well that didn't work either, lost all the content then then backed to a page that displayed it, but the Save page button was inexplicably missing from under the edit content pane, trying again...this is a bit like yesterday, glad I am remembering to copy the page edit content each time  ...-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:42, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
That is very strange! I'm wondering if you are having some local browser issue too? Which browser & version are you running felix?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:18, 8 August 2012 (EDT)
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::I agree with Binbin, in our articles and also in our discussions we always try to remain neutral. This is a travel site, no need to go into laws and politics, as long as a traveler has a good idea what to expect. Looking at further articles online, wasn´t there a historic ruling from India’s Supreme Court in August 2017 confirming the right of the country’s LGBT people to express their sexuality without discrimination? Let´s avoid an [[Wikitravel:Edit war|edit war]] in the article, it´s good to discuss these things here before continuously editing the article, lets see what the input is from others here on the site. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 06:20, 6 January 2018 (EST)
  
: I just encountered the Internal Error/wgShowExceptionDetails error as well when editing on Shared, under Firefox 13.0, as well as when first saving this comment on :en.  — [[User:Dguillaime|D. Guillaime]] 00:41, 9 August 2012 (EDT)
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:::This does, as [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] pointed out, appear to be a classic [[Wikitravel:Edit war|edit war]] on the [[India]] page. Since there are 2 IP addresses and no actual WT user accounts involved, it may not be possible to mediate or resolve in a mutual way. In this case, I recommend that the Administrators huddle up and decide what to do; it may be that one editor is pushing an agenda -- if that is the case, I recommend a short ban of that IP to get the user's attention, along with a Talk Page (India) discussion of the issue. If the edit war continues afterward without participation in the discussion by the agenda-driven IP user, that IP should be blocked for 3 months. The page can also be protected for a short time if necessary. [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 18:08, 8 January 2018 (EST)
  
:: Hi iBobi, just logged on so I could leave this note, 4 page reloads got that done. I am using Safari browser for mac, Version 5.1.7 (6534.57.2). I can now click on the <nowiki>Sign your name: ~~~~ (on talk pages only)</nowiki> link again, and also the nonwiki markup short cut (as per this edit content.-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:07, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
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== Spam Blacklist ==
::* The edit did not resolve, after a drawn out period this message appeared:<br>
 
::  "''Internal error''"
 
::  "''Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.''"
 
::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:16, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::* Next attempt failed (Edit conflict) -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:16, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::* Then back paged, added the detail above, got another edit conflict, clicked on the EDIT link at the page head, trying again. --
 
::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:16, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
::: I then logged out and came back using FireFox and a German proxy server and viewed the edited Discussion page.
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Hello all, please take note of what links you are adding to the spam list. I've seen a couple links added that come from reputable sites/organizations.
-+-
 
::: Still using Firefox 14.0.1 (mac) and a US based proxy server 96.44.189.101 I then uploaded this edit. Page loads took a very long time as can be seen by the time stamps. --
 
::: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
Thank you, felix -- all of that specific info is enormously helpful, and I am making sure tech sees all of it. Please keep updating us on your progress; dramatic changes have been made to cacheing, and we continue to work at it.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:31, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
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Anyways, thanks for the vigilance you all have shown in your patrolling, it makes life so much easier and it is very much appreciated! [[User:IBThomas|IBThomas]] ([[User talk:IBThomas|talk]]) 12:25, 17 January 2018 (EST)
  
: Well now that edit finally loaded I am able to view the page, and see my edits, and Ibobi's recent addition. However a very odd standout feature of all my (recent) edits is that they all have the same time stamp, even though I used different browsers and came at WT from from two entirely different IPs seperated by a lot of ocean. The edits from the Firefox browser and the US based proxy IP were incredibly slow, much slower then would be anticipated merely from proxy relaying, and of course certainly did not occure at the same time as the prior edits, that is decidedly strange (using Firefox and IP 212.84.206.250 in Germany for this edit
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== help board ==
: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:43, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:* It is notable that the error messages and the edit conflicts are not occurring, the edit conflict occuring earlier when using Safari (mac) and an Indonesian IP apparently arising from the WT server accepting the edit but providing an instruction to the browser to display and error message, that provided and a subsequent edit being made it is then not recognised as a new edit but is seen as an 'Edit conflict" even when the content is changed. This edit is from Firefox and IP 212.84.206.250, significant delays can be attributed to proxy relaying, but not entirely to that alone. --
 
::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:54, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::* So then I reviewed my recent edits an thought I might fix a couple of typos and comment further on the time stamps. But whilst still using the Firefox browser and a French IP I got this error message:
 
::  "''The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression.''"
 
::  "''Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.''"
 
:: So still using the Firefox browser (mac) and after a long page load and edit pane load I am back. Please note my last edit ( felix 15:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT) ) in the series of edits with a 15:32 time stamp. When that resolved I logged out and waited for the page to reload. Having viewed it and gained assurance I was indeed logged out I then opened my Firefox browser and set out to load the WT page using a proxy server, I viewed the page, then logged in, having logged in I loaded up an edit page, this all took a nice long time, then I wrote my edit and clicked on the EDIT button, that took also tokk a noticable extended time to resolve to a displayed page. Yet astoundingly the result of that edit had the same time stamp (felix 15:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT)) as the previous edit using a different browser, and a different IP and at a much earlier time. The WT/IB server appears to be applying time and date stamps appropriate to a US east coast setting, ie 12 hours behind my own physical location. So this is not an anomaly arising at my end, is IB using mirror servers that are perhaps experiencing a time setting conflict between each other and then having difficulties resolving page loads and edits.--
 
:: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:46, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::  ''"The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because it uses an invalid or unsupported form of compression.''"
 
::  "''Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.''"
 
:* I am going to try with a different IP to upload this edit.
 
:* Please note the non-sequential time stamps in my edits above. The multiple edits with the same date and time are explained by my pasting the previously un-resolved edit (saved to my computer) into the new edit attempt with an additional later edit content appended below. However they are not sequential, at least one edit displays a time stamp prior to the ones above it. iBobi, perhaps check that all the (IB) servers are running on the same clock and calender time. Those were the earlier edits from just the one single IP in Indonesia and whilst using the Safari (mac) browser. Uploading this edit from a Swedish IP 83.209.239.207.--
 
::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:24, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:: So still using the Firefox browser (mac) and after a long page load and edit pane load I am back. Please note my last edit ( felix 15:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT) ) in the series of edits with a 15:32 time stamp. When that resolved I logged out and waited for the page to reload. Having viewed it and gained assurance I was indeed logged out I then opened my Firefox browser and set out to load the WT page using a proxy server, I viewed the page, then logged in, having logged in I loaded up an edit page, this all took a nice long time, then I wrote my edit and clicked on the EDIT button, that took also took a noticeable extended time to resolve to a displayed page. Yet astoundingly the result of that edit had the same time stamp (felix 15:32, 10 August 2012 (EDT)) as the previous edit using a different browser, and a different IP and at a much earlier time. The WT/IB server appears to be applying time and date stamps appropriate to a US east coast setting, ie 12 hours behind my own physical location. So this is not an anomaly arising at my end, is IB using mirror servers that are perhaps experiencing a time setting conflict between each other and then having difficulties resolving page loads and edits.--
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The Recent Changes for Hungarian is VERY backed up with spam. Any help in this department would be greatly appreciated.  
:: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:42, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::* Came straight back to correct a typo, no server error, so that means only the "Content encoding" error has happened with the Firefox browse. Uploading and logging out of this browser now. --
 
:::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:46, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::Back again after logging in using the Safari browser (mac). No problem logging in or loading view page or edit section page. Bit slow but consistent with previous performance, however seemed a bit quicker. Now lets see if the times are progressive and if the edit will take.--
 
:::[[User:Felix505|felix]] 16:52, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::* ^^^^ Well I got an error message and an edit conflict -- below is a cut and paste of what should have displayed after the edit above, not this edit point should be following the copy ''"click section edit etc..."'' --
 
::: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:::Back again after logging in using the Safari browser (mac). No problem logging in or loading view page or edit section page. Bit slow but consistent with previous performance, however seemed a bit quicker. Now lets see if the times are progressive and if the edit will take.--[[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
It should also be noted that this section in the Traveler's Pub can be used as a help board of sorts, where others can ask for help, or offer their services. Hopefully this can facilitate more of a community where people can work together. [[User:IBThomas|IBThomas]] ([[User talk:IBThomas|talk]]) 17:00, 17 January 2018 (EST)
:::*Well it did not work, I got this:
 
:::  "''Internal error''"
 
:::  "''Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.''"
 
:::*So I will try again after copying all this to my clip board as no doubt I will need to come back in from a page view, click section edit etc...--
 
::::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:::*  As per detail shown at ^^^^ the edit did not work and has been pasted in above, being rather tired of this I am now going to drive a crowbar through one of my feet for some fun as just about anything would be better than this time wasting nonsense. I really do hope the IB IT people are paying some attention and I have not just been wasting my time doing this. --
+
:Just had a look, all clear for now, will keep an eye on that version too. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 04:41, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:::: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:02, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::* That one worked without complication, just really slow. Logging out now--
 
:::: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:05, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::  Look at the time stamps on the edits displayed on the page and compare with the editing history page list of edits, the time stamps there are sequential but display different time stamps to individual edit's own signature time and date stamps. Left hand is maybe not talking to the right hand?? --
 
:::  [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:22, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::: More of the same:
 
:::: "''Internal error''"
 
:::: "''Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.''"
 
:::: Further edit conflicts/cache anomalies
 
:::: [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:36, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
Is this perhaps a new editing enhancement, if so it is unappealing... From an attempt to edit an article :
+
==Please make suggestions for WT homepage content==
*"Session failure"
+
Hello! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for February by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Monday January 29th. We will announce the winning topics Tuesday the 30th. Thank you![[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 14:11, 22 January 2018 (EST)
*"There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Go back to the previous page, reload that page and then try again".
 
*"Return to Main Page". -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:40, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:This was then followed by the error below when trying to upload the edit above...
+
:For Destination of the Month, what about [[Mexico]], since the largest underwater cave was discovered there very recently? Interesting location for sure! Mexican cuisine is also nice. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 09:42, 23 January 2018 (EST)
:*"Internal error"
 
:*"Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information"
 
:* Followed by an Edit conflict page. 
 
:: So I guess the problem is ongoing, I had to reload over 10 times yesterday to get a page to load. -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 17:48, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:If I click on the "patrolled" [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Mandarmani&action=markpatrolled&rcid=1933955&token=a9f2ad5c33225cbfc9888a176d7fd79e%2B%5C&rcid2=0 Mandarmani&action=markpatrolled] link it loads:
+
::Maybe for "Off the Beaten Path" you could try Prachuap Khiri Khan in Thailand. This place is a paradise, and not at all expensive. Regrettably, more and more tourists are coming here, so go there before it becomes another Phuket or similar. [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 04:04, 24 January 2018 (EST)
*Session failure"
 
*"There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Go back to the previous page, reload that page and then try again".
 
*Return to Main Page".
 
:*To 'Undo' and 'Edit' frequently requires multiple reloads of the page. Multiple attempts, edit conflicts and other anomalies are plentiful. -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:12, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
::::::Hi felix -- did you mean to post these repetitive remarks? There seem to be 3 sections you just posted with somewhat different content, but beginning essentially the same way. I just want to be sure to accurately report what you're experiencing.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:06, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::I second [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] idea of Mexico (and Mexican cuisine). Another option could be Venice (it's Carnival time). For OTBP you could try some small town/village around Europe (there are dozens of them). [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 05:27, 26 January 2018 (EST)
  
::::::Hi iBobi, well I guess that illustrates the problem in a way. When I went to read your own recent addition I could not see either your content, or my own from earlier today. When I force reloaded the page I could.  What appears to be happening with some of the edits is they actually do upload, but either do not or cannot be loaded into a viewable page. These (repeated content) edits are arising from the ones that have generated the ''Session failure'' errors and ''Internal error'' pages. When the new content fails then the edit is attempted again. The outcome is often an ''Edit conflict''. This is apparently being generated in the instances when the edit has actually loaded into the system, yet still cannot be viewed, no doubt due to a caching problem. So, I cannot see it, I have an error message suggesting it has most likely failed and hence try it again, then arriving at an "Edit conflict". What you are seeing on the page is the outcome of my saving the edit in anticipation of it not uploading and the content becoming 'lost' and then when the edit fails I have reloaded the edit page, still cannot see the previously edited content in the edit pane and so have pasted it back into the edit pane from my clipboard. Then later I find repeats, yesterday I cleaned some of them out afterwards and replaced that removed content with a 'marker', this can be reviewed in the Histories if you are interested. I am not going to give myself a case of the head-spins going back through the histories again and trying to work out exactly which edit has done what , it is just too confusing. I tried yesterday thinking I could use the edit history page time stamps as a guide, then I saw they were seemingly entirely different to the time and date stamps appended to the displayed text. I makes editing a very tiresome process and it is difficult to ensure that edits are uploaded. --- if it looks odd it is because it is '''odd'' and highly frustrating. As it has started to fill up the page it might be an idea to archive it now. I am going to remove the repeated block so it is representing the error messages in the sequence, the messy version can be viewed in the histories if anyone wants to look at it.-- I hope this helps as it is both frustrating and time consuming, it is also filing the page with rubbish edits. Really I should have been writing a log of the entire thing offline as trying to describe it in sequential edits is impossible due to the problem itself. It is really quite maddening.If there is repetition in what still displays above it is because the problem repeats and I am documenting it, look carefully, one describes the outcome of editing on the [[Mandarmani]] article, another is the effort to report that here, and then a subsequent one attempts to report the failure of that edit, and onward. No doubt when I try to upload this there will be more. I am not going to log them though it is like banging my head on a wall.-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 21:16, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::Hey everyone, these are all great ideas! Still need suggestions for Language of the Month and Landmark of the Month. Shall I extend the voting until tomorrow the 31st?[[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 10:38, 30 January 2018 (EST)
  
:Understood. We are only seeing this reported for you and one other (above), so we're considering if this is possibly geo-related. We'll keep plugging away at it, and thank you for your efforts here, they're invaluable. I'm just sorry this has been so frustrating for you.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 21:31, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::: I always vote for Mexican cuisine. For language, I would probably throw in Swahili. [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]])[[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 11:08, 30 January 2018 (EST)
  
::I, and others, have stopped reporting bugs because there are too many, it makes my head hurt to think about them further, the "work" you guys do to fix them seems to just involve either ineffectually turning off really important, basic functionality like... email, API, etc., or just creating new bugs for us to report. Progress is only towards the abyss. I've given up editing.
+
::::::For Landmark of the month maybe we can do Mỹ Sơn in Vietnam, they're ruins of old Hindu Temples. [[User:IBThomas|IBThomas]] ([[User talk:IBThomas|talk]]) 12:31, 30 January 2018 (EST)
  
::It is disappointing, though, that I am unable to email [[User:Cayla]], who is our [[Wikitravel:Docents|docent]] for [[Winnipeg]], since I had questions for Cayla about an upcoming trip. It's (one of) the same problem(s) that Felix reports: submit on the emailuser form generates ''Internal error. Set $wgShowExceptionDetails = true; at the bottom of LocalSettings.php to show detailed debugging information.''  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:53, 15 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::::::Hi everyone! Thank you for your wonderful suggestions this past week. Here are the winners for the home page content for February. Destination of the Month: Mexico, Off the Beaten Path: Prachuap Khiri Khan, Cuisine of the Month: Mexican, Language of the Month: Swahili, and Landmark of the Month: Mỹ Sơn. (Boy was Mexico popular!). We hope to make this a regular thing for the monthly home page content. An announcement will be made here on the Pub during the last week of the month asking for user's ideas on what the Wikitravel home page should feature. Thanks again to those who participated![[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 11:39, 31 January 2018 (EST)
  
:::Ha! I get the message when I submit these edits as well. But at least they go through, unlike my email. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:54, 15 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::::::Great choices! Probably too late now, but since the Winter Olympics are taking place in [[Pyeongchang]] from Feb 9-25, maybe we should highlight this location too this month? Only just realised that this is happening this month. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 07:53, 2 February 2018 (EST)
  
::::Hi iBobi, I do appreciate that there is a lot to sort out at the moment, and that is a rather arcane series of edits above, but if you look back through them you will note the following:
+
== Bangkok Hotels ==
::::1. ''I have encountered the same problem using entirely different browsers''
 
::::2. ''Others are reporting the same error messages and are to the best of my knowledge in entirely different parts of the world''
 
::::3. ''Inorder to clarify the ''geo'' issue I accessed WT through a proxy server system and thereby attempted a series of edits using entirely different IPs to access WT, from different countries''
 
::::4. ''The time stamps showing appended to the edits on the Pub page and the Pub History page are in variance, apparently there is more than one clock and the clocks are set on different times in relationship to GMT (UTC)''.
 
::::5. ''This problem endures and I also note it effects the WT email facility''.
 
::::I  have been aboard vessels in distress at sea on a couple of occasions and know how worrying it can become when the decks appear to take longer and longer to clear with each new wave that comes across them.  I have often found myself in the engine room at times like that as inevitably something always seems to go wrong in there at the worst possible time. It can also be one of the hardest places to get back out of if the deck becomes permanently wet. I will be just quietly sitting this one out at the rails now.-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 15:29, 15 August 2012 (EDT)
 
::::: How wonderful! I managed to log in... as Vietnam.visum or something like that with the Safari browser and cannot logout - I get just blank pages, even when trying to load the main page. With Camino I get that red error message box when I try to log in. I have pretty much the same to say as felix above except that I don't get that many error messages but instead empty/blank pages. We're obviously both Mac users if that may help. [[User:Vietnam visum|Vietnam visum]] 07:45, 16 August 2012 (EDT) (Ypsilon)
 
:::::: This is ridiculous. It seems like I'm "Vietnam visum" when using Camino as well. [[User:Vietnam visum|Vietnam visum]] 07:48, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::::Are you saying you have logged in as yourself, but are actually logged in as a different user? That can't really happen. I wonder if you have two accounts, or are sharing a computer with another user, and you actually logged into their account.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:56, 16 August 2012 (EDT)
 
:::::::: Yes. And it is not the first time but fourth or fifth that I'm logged in as someone else. For the last couple of weeks when I log in with my user name and password I usually get just an empty page when I hit "login" (or sometimes I get the red error box).  When I then reload the Main page it usually looks like I'm normally logged in (with my real user name) but this time the text in the upper right corner said "Vietnam visum". The first time this thing happened - a month ago - I wrote about it on Shared's Travellers pub [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Wikitravel_Shared:Travellers%27_pub#Wikitravel_has_some_alarming_problems_aka._WTF.21.3F] and saw that AHeneen also had experienced the same problem.  For me Wikitravel worked quite well before last month's update but after that it hasn't. And no, I have just one account and I'm not sharing the computer with anybody else. Might it be that you have a bug in the part of the new Mediawiki software that handles the login requests and matches user name and password or in the database where the passwords and user names are stored? (I'm not an expert on this stuff). And I'd like to ask Ltpowers, Ryan and other regular users: have you experienced anything like this or is it just us WT users outside the USA?  [[Special:Contributions/80.222.249.95|80.222.249.95]] 02:16, 17 August 2012 (EDT) (Ypsilon)
 
  
==Spammers and other weirdness==
+
I just checked the "Bangkok" section of Wikitravel, and I saw in the "Hotels" section, a number of hotel listings.
 +
Mainly upmarket ones.
 +
I believe that these should have been placed in individual District articles,
 +
Also, they're somewhat touty.
 +
Should I remove them?
 +
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 03:55, 24 January 2018 (EST)
  
These look like the same user: [[User:Riyas786]], [[User talk:Riyas Ahamed]], and in fact, they are currently the sole contributions of [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/117.197.189.166]. Shall we block that IP? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:36, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:Hello [[User:Avemario|Avemario]], you are correct, those listings should be moved to the respective district articles. If you feel a listing is pure advertising you can remove it, otherwise maybe adjust it a little if it is a good location to have mentioned. Just make sure you specify in the summary field of your edit what you are doing. Thanks as always! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 04:46, 25 January 2018 (EST)
  
== Geographical hierarchy advice ==
+
::OK, will do. Just give me a couple of days as it is a holiday weekend here. [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 01:32, 26 January 2018 (EST)
  
I'm working on improving all the articles related to [[Bangladesh]], beginning first with major tourist sites. However, I'm having issues categorising specific sights into articles. Say for example, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somapura_Mahavihara Somapura Mahavihara], ruins of a Buddhist temple. According to UNESCO, it is in the tiny village of Paharpur. That village is probably too small for an article, so I could put it in a "Badalgachhi Upazila" article (upazila means county), but again, it'd probably be the only attraction. The next level up is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naogaon Naogaon District], which could easily get a few sights and attractions, and have hotels/restaurants dotted all over the place. But then does the administrative capital of the district, "Naogaon", get its own article? I'm finding it all very confusing, and want a clear-cut idea of how to subdivide the country so I can filter the information well. Thanks guys, <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 05:38, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::OK, all sorted now. [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 02:20, 29 January 2018 (EST)
 +
::::Thank you! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 07:33, 4 February 2018 (EST)
  
:My thought is that [[Wikitravel: The traveller comes first|the traveller comes first]], so you should deal with this in whatever way you think will be most helpful to a visitor. If a decision is made later to change things, fine; at least you will have put up the information. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 06:45, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
+
==Home Page Content Voting for March 2018==
 +
Hi All! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for March by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, February 28th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, March 1st. Thank you![[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 11:35, 20 February 2018 (EST)
  
::The real answer is simply that it ''is'' confusing. The destinations that we have best figured out how to break down and organize are huge cities, for example, [[Chicago]], which have districts for small, dense, and commonly understood regions like [[Chicago/Loop|the Loop]] as well as large, less dense areas that we have decided here to group together for convenience, like [[Chicago/Southwest Side]]. I think that we would ideally apply this same logic to basically everywhere, leaving no gap and no overlap at the bottom level of the hierarchy.
+
:Destination of the Month could be [[Florence]], early spring is one of the best moments to visit the city (and [[Previous_Destinations_of_the_month|as far as I can see]] it has never been chosen before). Off the Beaten Path: [[Ronda]] in Spain. We could choose Cuisine and Language of a specific region: after all many of our phrasebook pages have sections about ordering food and drink. What do you think?  [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 06:07, 23 February 2018 (EST)
  
::In your example, I might guess that a [[Rural Naogaon District]] article and a [[Naogaon]] (city) article would suffice to cover the whole area? Those would then be linkable from [[Rajshahi Division]]. That might look a little unusual, but that's a consequence resulting from the fact that Wikitravel hasn't figured this part out very well yet. I did something sort of similar at [[Montgomery County (Maryland)]] as a potential exemplar, although it has considerably more subdivisions than what I just recommended—you'll know the particulars of this situation better. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:02, 7 August 2012 (EDT)
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::I just got a message from someone about an Indonesian food delivery where I live, just looking at the pictures makes me hungry, for Cuisine I would suggest Indonesian! Off the Beaten Path [[Papua New Guinea]]? Destination of the Month I like Giulio´s suggestion [[Florence]]. Landmark of the Month the Abbey at [[Mont Saint Michel]]? Such a special place. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 10:10, 23 February 2018 (EST)
  
== MediaWiki API not working ==
+
:::Indonesian cuisine! Good suggestion! [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 05:36, 24 February 2018 (EST)
  
Not sure if it's intentional or some side effect of recent upgrade, but http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/api.php gives me:
+
::::Landmark of the Month: the Botanical Garden in [[Padua]]. It's the oldest in the world, established in 1545, recently renovated and (sadly) often overlooked. [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 11:45, 26 February 2018 (EST)
  
MediaWiki API is not enabled for this site. Add the following line to your LocalSettings.php
+
::::I second the call for Indonesian cuisine! Or Pakistani, alternatively. [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) [[Special:Contributions/98.158.206.112|98.158.206.112]] 11:43, 1 March 2018 (EST)
  
'''$wgEnableAPI=true;'''
+
:::::Need a tie breaker for OTBP and Landmark please![[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 15:53, 1 March 2018 (EST)
  
If it's intentional, [[:shared:How to re-use Wikitravel guides]] should be updated. If not, can someone fix it? Thank you
+
::::::Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions! Here are the winners: Destination of the Month, Florence, Off the Beaten Path, Ronda in Spain, Cuisine of the Month, Javanese/Indonesian, Language of the Month, Indonesian, and Landmark of the Month, Abbey at Mont Saint Michel. Agreed with OTBP and Landmark options? Ran out of time so I chose these. Thank you again for posting, be ready for wonderful suggestions for the April home page![[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 17:41, 1 March 2018 (EST)
03:43, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
: See also [[:shared:Tech:Mediawiki API Disabled‎]]. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 10:42, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
== Petra edits ==
  
::Let me look into it; what's it used for?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:28, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
Hi all! Take a look at some recent [[Petra]] edits that were reverted by Giulio. In my opinion, this is a complex case, and Giulio handled it correctly, as far as the reverts go. The information added was not strictly travel related, and was added in a format not consistent with a travel guide. However, that does not mean the edits were totally without merit. It might be useful to some travelers to know that some animal rights organizations have expressed concern over how some animals at this site have been treated. The information would, however, need to be presented in a less political, agenda-driven manner, and more like a tip for a traveler than a screed against animal cruelty.
  
::: See http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Main_page.  The Mediawiki API is a tool for people to programmatically access the site.  The benefit to end-users is that it's easier to use the API instead of parsing HTML pages, and the benefit to IB is that the API is far less resource-intensive than full page generation would be.  I'm sure spambots are probably exploiting the API (as they exploit anything available to them), but it's a tremendously useful tool for non-spammers, too. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:39, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
I think what is missing is a follow-up note on user [[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]]'s talk page, and perhaps on the Petra talk page as well, asking the user to please continue editing WT, but in a manner consistent with a travel guide. In this way, we open up the possibility of adding a good faith editor to the site, rather than simply shutting someone down.  
  
::::If it is being used by the spammers, I'm not sure how much luck we'll have getting it re-enabled right now if this was part fo the anti-spambot effort.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:44, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
What do you think? [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 13:55, 21 February 2018 (EST)
  
::::: Not having this functionality is a dealbreaker for me in terms of contributing to Wikitravel - I use it to keep a mirror of the site. I understand that there is concern about spam, but the API was enabled until yesterday, and disabling it has had little impact on spam volume. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 14:04, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:I agree with the revert, I would have removed it too, if it was just a line or two about animal cruelty it would have been ok I think. This user should have had a welcome message and some feedback, probably with the increased spam we had lately this one maybe slipped through? Usually new users who are serious about contributing find us on our talk pages if they don´t agree with an edit we made, glad [[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]] managed to get in contact and hopefully we will see many valuable edits from her in the future! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 14:50, 21 February 2018 (EST)
  
::::::I understand that it is decreased functionality, but there are two spam issues we're trying to lock down. One is the volume of spambots being created, which is something I'm not sure there is a solution to within MediaWiki -- the openness of creating user accounts without email verification, the ability to make anon edits, etc. Other than manually deleting them, how do you handle that? The second issue is the reason Peter keeps blocking himself: he thinks spambots are exploiting MW to use existing accounts to spoof new spambot accounts. O think I see evidence that it has happened in the past, and that's what we're trying to address right now, and I'm guessing is the reason the API was changed. If that's the way to fix this, I don't know what other option we have. Do you have a suggestion?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:17, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::I think that user had good intentions and that their info can be useful to travelers because it can allow travelers to anticipate what they may see when they travel to that particular destination. However, the user could have used a more informational/neutral tone. [[User:Ncahill|Ncahill]] ([[User talk:Ncahill|talk]]) 15:04, 21 February 2018 (EST)
  
::::::: Please check with your tech team to find out if disabling the API is permanent - I assumed it was just a test, but if that's not the case I'd like to know as soon as possible. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 14:30, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::Hello, thank you for your feedback. I will amend the text to be less political and more 'travel guide' like. Sorry I am new to this. Please let me know if my edit is ok.. <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]] ([[User_talk:OliCharlton|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OliCharlton|contribs]]) </small>
  
:::::::: It should be possible to make API read only - http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableWriteAPI &bull; 15:01, 10 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::Hello, I'm sorry I completely forgot to leave a message to [[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]] but there was something in the tone of her edit that made me think it was not coming from a "valuable user" (that is someone really interested in Wikitravel's [https://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Goals_and_non-goals goals]). Of course we should not encourage cruelty to animals but discussing animals rights is not what Wikitravel is about, isn't it? [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 03:26, 22 February 2018 (EST)
  
:::::::::This is following a very distressing pattern of "fixing" problems by creating bigger ones... without even fixing the original problem--[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:01, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::: Hello, thanks for your reply. I think its really important for people to know this goes on. I was so upset in seeing this! And had I known I might have reconsidered my plans. If I amend to this will that be ok?
 +
::::: ''WARNING' It is advisable to walk rather than use the working animals as transport. In 2018, (PETA) Asia released a video showing the abuse of these animals. This included animals forced to carry tourists or pull carriages every day with no shelter, handlers beating and whipping their animals and animals with open fly infested wounds<small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]] ([[User_talk:OliCharlton|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/OliCharlton|contribs]]) </small>
  
::::::::::The spambot deluge continues, seemingly worse every day. Now we also edit with the knowledge that our work is no longer being backed up by anyone other than IB, whom honestly no one trusts to preserve the data if they decide it no longer suits them to do so. I have no idea why I should continue contributing here.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 09:25, 11 August 2012 (EDT)
+
::::::Hi, glad to see the discussion. The the new version is better, but I don't think the word "WARNING" is really needed. Also, we sign our comments on discussion pages (but not in articles) by entering "<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>" at the end. Hope to see more of your contributions in the future. Cheers!  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 10:27, 22 February 2018 (EST)
  
We're working to resolve the spam issues that you and other admins have reported, Peter, and this is one method to try to diagnose what is happening and resolve the issue. I know you're not suggesting we do nothing? This API has only existed for a month or two, so it seems unlikely that it's a make or break feature, right? As to your commentary on some sort of need to preserve data outside of WT (?), or an implied motive to lose data (?), not sure what that means, but I can assure you no data has been lost, nor could I even conceive of a reason to deliberately do so. Can you explain? --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 16:47, 12 August 2012 (EDT)
+
:::::::Hi, this new version is much better. I agree that "WARNING" is not needed. [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 11:12, 22 February 2018 (EST)
  
:: The MediaWiki API was introduced in v 1.8.0 and set by default "working" ($wgEnableAPI=true;). The API was working also in times of Wikitravel v 1.11. The statement "This API has only existed for a month or two" is incorrect because this option is default. A lot of services use the API including search engines. The most important feature are the autocomplete search suggestions ($wgEnableMWSuggest=true; default false) which are only usable with enabled API ($wgEnableAPI=true;) and enabled AJAX ($wgUseAjax = true;). This feature is used by all modern mediawiki sites. Disabling this API feature did not solve configuration failures. At least it is possible to set the read only flag. --[[User:Unger|Unger]] 09:46, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
+
Great thank you, I will make the edit now "[[User:OliCharlton|OliCharlton]] ([[User talk:OliCharlton|talk]]) 21:08, 22 February 2018 (EST)"
  
:Look at all the spam user pages in "Recent changes." I'm calling uncle! I simply refuse to waste my time deleting previously-deleted spam pages for free. Fix your damn problem. Your software needs to block spammers, period. Maybe I'll come back if things get better after a while, but so far, I vote No Confidence in you and whoever is allegedly working with you to ostensibly fix the security problems here. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 07:41, 14 August 2012 (EDT)
+
=April 2018 suggestions for WT Homepage content!=
 +
A little bit to the game to this but each month the content of our homepage changes. We'd like Wikitravel users to help decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for April by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, April 4th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, April 5th. Thank you!
 +
:Botswana! [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 17:02, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
::Ooh! That can be an interesting one. Anyone else have suggestions for Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month?
  
== Is this page relevant? Where would it go? ==
+
:::What about Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic? Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in [[Greece]] as well, like [[Zakynthos]]. Why not Greek as the Language of the Month then, and the Corinth Canal as the Landmark of the Month? Keeping it all in one country, long time since I have been there but a lovely country to visit! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 04:50, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
::::Botswana would be great! Also choosing a greek island for OTBP: Zakynthos is good but we may choose some other island ([[Ithaca (Greece)|Ithaca]]?) [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 11:12, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
::::::Wow! Great suggestions, Adzas and GiulioC! I think having those spots from Greece as OTBP, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month are all lovely idea as some people may not have heard of them or never been... like me! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 11:52, 4 April 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
 +
:::: I was thinking a city in Japan though, like [[Nara]] (with the nice cherry season), but Botswana is a great pick too! Keeping it all in one country sounds like a very good idea. I like it. Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic, Greek as the Language of the Month, Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in [[Greece]]. Good idea! I'm for it.    --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 04:01, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
:::::I´ve seen pictures of these cherry blossoms in Japan, beautiful! Which months can that usually be seen, we can still use [[Nara]] next time? Beautiful! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 06:01, 7 April 2018 (EDT)
  
I'm working with a group of people who need a place to keep a shared list of meditation retreat locations. We are having trouble finding a centralized non-sectarian site for it, so I thought I'd ask if this would this appropriate content for a single page on Wikitravel? There will be fewer than a few dozen locations listed, and doesn't really seem to be appropriate to hide the locations on individual country-pages, since seekers of this page will enjoy seeing all available locations in once place. Where might the page go, and be linked from? Thanks! [[Special:Contributions/92.41.251.237|92.41.251.237]] 10:20, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
+
=Wikitravel Software Update Coming Next Week=
 +
Hello all Wikitravellers!
 +
This is one of your admins on Wikitravel. Just sending an update that our site will be expecting a upgrade sometime next week. Should anyone come across any issues, please e-mail [email protected](dot)org or message me on my talk page. [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 20:21, 6 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
: You could start an articel for [[meditation retreat]], and have it listed in [[travel topics]]. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 15:41, 18 August 2012 (EDT)
+
== Vandalism on WT today ==
  
== Database Error ==
+
If you happen to see a strange looking page on WT today, please let us know. Don't be alarmed, it's just a vandal. Our Legal team are in the process of tracing the related IPs and will be alerting local law enforcement immediately. Thank you, [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 15:22, 10 April 2018 (EDT)
  
Seemingly every article comes up with "Database Error", and the following text:
+
=WT Software Upgrade Happening Now!=
 +
Hi everyone! Heads up that as of Wednesday, April 11th at 12:05pm PST, the site will be down and ready for upgrade! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 15:05, 11 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
''A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was: (SQL query hidden) from within function "LocalRepo::getArticleID". Database returned error "1146: Table wikitravel_org_-_shared.page doesn't exist (wikitraveldb1-new)".''
+
:Hi, IB hill,
 +
:Due to the software upgrade this time, we have some bugs on ja:WT. We can't display some of our pages correctly, with a internal error message instead. Here is an example:
  
It was working earlier today; glitch, or apocalypse? [[Special:Contributions/87.115.180.185|87.115.180.185]] 19:44, 28 August 2012 (EDT)
+
[[email protected]] /ja/%E7%A5%AD%E3%82%84%E3%82%A4%E3%83%99%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88/4%E6%9C%88 Error from line 158 of /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/extensions/Breadcrumb.php: Call to undefined method User::getSkin()
:When did you get that error? Is it still happening now? We did a cache update which may have caused a short error period earlier today. Also, did that happen when you were reading or editing?
 
:If you refresh the page you're working on/viewing, it should disappear.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:57, 28 August 2012 (EDT)
 
  
 +
Backtrace:
  
== Copyright violation ==
+
#0 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/extensions/Breadcrumb.php(64): BreadcrumbLinks(array, Title)
User Adigax91 has been adding a lot of info recently in the "Buy" sections of many countries. Such an awful lot of content seems suspicious, and when these additions verbatim online, the search results sometimes come up with multiple sites all claiming copyright on their site's content, so it's not clear who the original owner of the content is. The top result that seems to be the source of the offending content is worldtravelguide.net. I'd do more searching, but it's late and I don't feel like spending the necessary time to research and delete all inappropriate content. Even if this came from an open source like Wikipedia, there's no attribution. I've written on Adigax91's wall to give him/her a chance to respond, but all offending content needs to be deleted ASAP. Checking a handful of examples:
+
#1 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/includes/Setup.php(855): setupBreadcrumb()
 +
#2 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/includes/WebStart.php(114): require_once(string)
 +
#3 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/index.php(55): require(string)
 +
#4 {main}
  
Turkmenistan
+
:This error seems to happen all the sub pages which contains slash mark ("/") on the title (Such as "[[Tokyo/Chiyoda]]").
*[http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Turkmenistan&curid=846&diff=1920325&oldid=1918575 edit]
 
*[http://www.worldtravelguide.net/turkmenistan/shopping-nightlife] match
 
  
Botswana
+
:In addition, I couldn't write on your talk page, because it is totally protected (That's why I wrote my message here) [[User:Shoestring|Shoestring]] ([[User talk:Shoestring|talk]]) 08:14, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
*[http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Botswana&curid=220&diff=1920047&oldid=1910087 edit]
+
::Hey Shoestring!
*[http://www.worldtravelguide.net/botswana/shopping-nightlife] match
+
::Thanks for bringing this to our attention! I'm sending a report for you right now. Apologies that you couldn't talk on my talk page (you should be able to now). Will be moving our messages over there. Please keep me posted with any other issues. I plan to check on the Japan page today to see if I come across anything and will talk to you there. Thanks again! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 13:20, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
*[http://www.pearllinguistics.com/resources/botswana] match
+
:::Oh and also if you can let me know what device and browser you're using. That'll be much appreciated! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 13:25, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
:::: It should be working now! Please let me know if there's anything else JA WT needs. Thanks for letting us know! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 18:23, 12 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
Uzbekistan
+
== Traveller of the Month ==
*[http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Uzbekistan&curid=870&diff=1920326&oldid=1913103 edit]
 
*[http://www.worldtravelguide.net/uzbekistan/things-to-do-old] match
 
  
I'm sure if you search the rest of Adigax91's recent additions, you'll find they're all copyright vio's. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 02:54, 9 September 2012 (EDT)
+
I do note that the Traveller of the Month page is defective.
 +
I did try to post this on the edit page there, but it will not allow me.
 +
Although it is an old page, maybe you can either correct it or delete it.
 +
Obviously I would prefer the former, as I use it to prove to people that it is a totally credible website.
 +
Your call..................
  
:I have reverted everything the user has done this month. Thank you, Aheneen -- sharp eye!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:37, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
+
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 04:02, 14 April 2018 (EDT)
  
== Wikitravel in the New York Times ==
+
I might add that the Thai Phrasebook has a similar problem!
  
See [[Wikitravel:Press coverage#2012]]. [[User:Jpatokal|jpatokal]] 07:59, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
+
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 08:08, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
  
==[[Archaeological sites]] and [[Old Towns]]==
+
:Hi Avemario, thanks for letting us know! The [[Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario]] page can only be edited by admin, the page is protected. Is there anything you wanted to have changed? The [[Thai phrasebook]] seems ok to me, I can edit it, can you get in at all or just not save your edit? [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 11:02, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
Started a page about [[archaeological sites]] and [[Old Towns]]. Contributions and cross-links are welcome. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 08:58, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
+
:: Hey [[User:Avemario|Avemario]]! Wanted to introduce myself as one of the newer admins and jump in to this thread. Seems like [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] beat me to answering your questions! Please let us know what you would like to correct or change for your [[Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario]] page. I can also correct the [[Thai phrasebook]] as well. We also had a software upgrade last week and have been running QA. However, there may still be little bugs that pop out. If you notice anything, please feel free to reach out and let us know the issue + browser & operating system you're using! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 12:00, 16 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
 +
:::Hillary, the banner on the Traveller of the month page is extending at the bottom to cover the text. Also, it is time we re-started the Traveller of the Month back up again -- and maybe rename it Wikitraveller of the month? [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 20:04, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
  
: New articles: [[Christian buildings, sites and events]] and [[Muslim buildings, sites and events]]. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 10:39, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::Hi!
 +
::::Thanx for your answers, both Adzas (who I know already), and IB hill.
  
:: These should link to existing articles such as [[Holy Land]] and [[UNESCO World Heritage List]]. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 20:52, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::I am using Firefox on a laptop computer.
  
==Right to vanish policy==
+
::::The problem is that, with the "Traveller of the Month", the discussion start is up under the pic!
I feel that we lack a right to vanish policy. The meatball version is to be found [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToVanish here]. The Wikipedia version is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Courtesy_vanishing here]. Suggestion: import the current Wikipedia version. [[User:Riggwelter|Riggwelter]] 09:45, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::What I can read starts with "our gratitude by featuring them........"
:*'''Support''' --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 21:16, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
 
  
== Many more administrators needed? ==
+
::::With the Thai Phrasebook, everything can be read, but the writing is scrunched up against the pic. 
  
It's been more than a year since the last Administrator, [[User:Ikan Kekek]], was nominated.
+
::::I have checked a few other Thai Province websites, but they are normal.
  
If you believe a Wikitraveller — including yourself — should have [[Wikitravel:Administrators|administrative status]] please verify that they meet the guidelines for becoming an administrator and then add them to the nominations section at [[Wikitravel:Administrator nominations]]
+
::::So I leave it up to you to sort this out.
  
Nominations should also include a sentence or two outlining the nominee's relevant experience and understanding of Wikitravel's policies. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 21:24, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 06:28, 17 April 2018 (EDT)
  
: The main reason for this problem is that nearly all the current admins have left to start another project. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 22:01, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::: Hey AveMario! Gotcha. I submitted a report for you just now and hopefully we will get that fixed for you quickly! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 11:58, 17 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
::W. Frank is correct -- qualified admins are needed now, and to guide this project going forward. This is an excellent fresh start for Wikitravel :) --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:29, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
+
=Pages Currently Under Evaluation=
 +
Heads up that as of 4/18/18, we're currently putting pages about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market, Wat Chan, and Dusun Glondok under evaluation as we're working on determining if it adheres to the site's [[Wikitravel:policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]] and [[Wikitravel:Manual of style|style]]. If anyone has any thoughts or know anything about these sights and destinations, please reply down below here. Would love to make this a collaborative effort on Wikitravel! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 19:27, 18 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
== Massive spamming ==
+
:Hi! The first two of these three appear to be Thai, but I cannot find them on Wikitravel! The third is in Indonesia and I can find it. Can you please give me more info about these above two?  If they are Thai, I should be able to resolve it.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 03:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
  
Can the techies improve the captcha or something to cut down on the amount of spam? I've been deleting several pages a day for some time & over a dozen today, and I am not the only admin doing it, but there are lots more. Most involve accounts apparently registered only to spam. Is there a way to prevent spambot registrations? [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 01:24, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::I can´t find the first two mentioned articles, but my first thought would be that a market should not have its own article. It can be described in the article of where it is located. Dusun Glondok I can´t find much information about online, it seems to be a little village? The writer of the article should specify where exactly it is and if there are any tourist attractions so more information can be added or rewritten. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 09:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
:Captcha is at its highest level (recaptcha, actually). We're exploring new ways to combat spam accounts, including the Abuse Filter extension. If you notice patterns in the spammers, please let me know. Whether it's coming from a common IP range, always posting the same exact content, similar usernames, etc -- if there's a pattern we can write a rule around, we can set up blocks.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:34, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
+
:::update - I found the floating market info, on [[User:TAMONWAN|Tamonwan user page]]. I removed the first paragraph as this was copied from another website and I removed the [[Wikitravel:External links|external links]] for now. For the rest I would move the original info to a location article and then remove it from the user page. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 09:57, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
::: Hello hello! I realized I left my computer without adding the pages. The Thai content about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market and Wat Chan are posted on [[User:TAMONWAN|Tamonwan user page]] and on [[User:Jeechnps|Jeechnps user page]]. I'm curious to know what you guys think about the content and how we could better blend the info with the site. Seems like you're a Thai expert, Avemario! If you get the chance, maybe you can check it out? [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 11:55, 19 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
:: One obvious pattern is the dozens of pages with long strings of digits as page names, all with the same content, created by one user. [[Special:Contributions/Русская_месть]]
+
::::OK............
:: Another is use of the <nowiki><br></nowiki> tag, not needed on a wiki but found in many pages whose pattern is "Hello, I'm Bozo McGuffin from Camelot.<nowiki><br><br></nowiki> See my blog:" then some rubbish link. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:33, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:: Thinking about it, if there was a way to prohibit new users from posting links -- for example just reject any edit to a new user page that includes a link -- that would eliminate most spam. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:51, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::The Floating Market is in Thonburi in Bangkok,and is already listed there. I have updated the opening hours, but (personally) I do not ::::think that we need all the info that the Tamonwan page provides.
 +
::::After all, do we need a travel website, or a multi page book for each destination?
 +
::::I think that too much info on a place tends to be a distraction from the rest of the area. As it is, if someone wants to go there, if they ::::are in a hotel nearby, or go to a Travel Agent, they will get all the detailed stuff and can make their choice.
  
::: [[User:Пиздец неруси!]] is spamming. Block immediately. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 07:42, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::We do not need Wikitravel "overcrowded".  
  
::::Yes, he has vandalized hundreds of articles. Blocking him before he vandalizes a few hundred more articles might be a nice idea... <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 08:25, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::And the same with Wat Chan,which is a Buddhist Temple (Wat) in Ban Chan (Chan Town)
  
If you feel strongly about this, as I do, then why not suggest other Wikitravellers — including yourself — for [[Wikitravel:Administrators|Administrator status]]?
+
::::This is in Chiang Mai Province, some 150Km North West towards Pai (which is on Wikitravel).
 +
::::Chiang Mai has many attractions, and we need again to be careful we do not make the attraction into a book!
 +
::::It seems from what I can read online that this place has only one decent hotel, run by Karen (Christian refugees from Myanmar, so it is an ::::out of the way place to get involved in this culture. There is transport to here from Chiang Mai in yellow songteows apparently (2 bench ::::pickup trucks).
 +
::::It seems that there are also minibuses from both Chiang Mai, and Pai.
  
Please verify that they (you?) meet the guidelines for becoming an administrator and then add them to the nominations section at [[Wikitravel:Administrator nominations]]. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 09:17, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
+
::::I would be inclined to only put a short article on the Chiang Mai website, just describing what it is, that there is a hotel, and how to ::::get there.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 06:41, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
 +
:::::Hey Avemario! Appreciate you taking the time to have a deeper look and thanks for adding the floating market in Thonburi on the [[Bangkok/Thonburi]] page. And completely agree with your suggestions. I'll have a look on their pages again and see what I can do. Thanks! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 12:04, 20 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
:FYI, we have placed some filters, as well as scripted the mass deletion of the vandalism over the last 2 days. It's not a big deal in the end, just a minor annoyance. Vandalizing a wiki... pointless. Thank you all for you help.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:54, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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::::::Above is very helpful, great as always Avemario! I do think it is important to find out why those users are adding all this info on their user pages. As mentioned, we have had school projects before, we used to let them work on their user pages as long as all that info is moved or removed in a short period of time, either to an existing article or a new article. If the users in question don´t communicate with us and the info is not according to our guidelines (either an article already exists or the info does not justify an article etc) we should move/remove it as soon as possible. As the Travellers Pub still does not seem to appear in Recent Changes, new users may not see our discussion, so we should check on their talk pages (the messages I left so far no reaction yet as far as I can see). Great though, I´ve learnt a lot about those locations in the past days, that´s what it is all about I think. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 06:34, 21 April 2018 (EDT)
  
::That's great news! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 15:09, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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== Nong Prue ==
  
This account [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD_-_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5_%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5!&limit=500&target=%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD+-+%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5+%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8F+%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5!] has vandalised thousands of pages. On the software side of things, can making more than "X number of edits in X amount of time" by a new user/IP address be blocked? [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 03:33, 26 September 2012 (EDT) PS:The name translates (Google Translate) as "Stalin-our shared combat". Wonder if it has something to do with those Pro-Communist/Russian nationalist people we've had to deal with on the Russia & Tiraspol pages?
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I have noticed an article about this place in Kanchanaburi Province in Thailand. The information is minimal, and a VERY thorough check of the internet shows virtually no information at all worthy of tourists.Personally, I would delete the article.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 06:53, 21 April 2018 (EDT)
  
:PPS:Looks like several vandalism bots might be those people.  За Родину!= For the Motherland!  Слава России!!!=Glory to Russia!  Слава Родине!=Glory to the motherland!  Пиздец неруси!=Nerusi f***ed!  Русская месть=Русская месть  Возмездие= Retaliation Месть русских=Revenge of the Russian That's all the Cyrillic user names that appear in the block log going back through the 14th.
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:And I just had a really serious look at it,and found virtually nothing at all on the internet, other that there is also a Nong Prue in Pattaya. :I still think it needs deleting - there is little info justifying moving it to the Kanchanaburi page.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User :talk:Avemario|talk]]) 07:59, 22 April 2018 (EDT)
  
:The red box being put on pages corresponds with the [http://wikitravel.org/ru/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA:%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9 page of the user] that has taken over the Russian WT merging former Soviet countries into the "Russia" page. User page translates to: "Слава России! GLORY OF RUSSIA! Glory to the great heroes of the Russian land! Honor, praise, honor and eternal glory to the victorious people! Kudos to you, brave,    GLORY, fearless!        Eternal glory SINGS TO YOU PEOPLE. Valiantly lived,    Death is broken,        MEMORIES OF YOU WILL NEVER DIE! WE - RUSSIAN, God with us!"  Clearly some delusional apparatchik well-versed in Russian nationalist, revisionist history. Can Cyrillic characters be blocked from new user names? Any other ways to deal with this? Seems to me like the people who gave us the headache over on the Russia/Tiraspol pages were likely from Transnistria (which corresponds to the Tiraspol edits & the fact that Transnistria remains stuck in the 1980s with the Communist party in charge). Any way to automatically block (or put restrictions on editing capability) of Moldovan IP addresses? Possible to also add Ukraine, too, because Transnistria borders it and it's possible telecom services might come from Ukraine due to the conflict between Moldova/Transnistria.[[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 04:22, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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::And as much as I hate being the pain in the arse which I am - I just noticed an article on Jom Jang, which is in Nong Khai Province in ::Thailand.There is virtually no info in this article, which was added many years ago, and it is only a few Km from Nong Khai City.I think it ::should be deleted, and the info moved to the Nong Khai page.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 06:18, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
  
: Can we make it impossible to register an account on en with a non-ASCII name? There have been at least two accounts with Russian names used for vandalism. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 03:45, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::And yet again......................... Ban Rong in Lamphang Province has absolutely no info about the place. So why not remove it [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
  
::I see the vandalism and your heroic efforts. I think both those restrictions are on the table and good ideas. Thanks for your heroic efforts in reverting. We'll have to see about a mass revert via username. If the Abuse Filter can handle the x edits/x time restriction, that might do it. Even if we set it to 50/hour, it would have helped here tremendously.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 03:56, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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::::Once more................ Ban Muang Kut is a place put in by advertisers who want to promote the place. Not wanted on Wikitravel.  
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::::The trip should be a place to go on the Chiang Mai page. [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
  
I would strongly deprecate any blocking based on geographical area or Cyrillic alphabet names. We do not want the innocent to suffer because of the guilty. Number of edits allowable per minute (if technically feasible) would not penalise the innocent newbie so much, but set much lower limits eg 1 edit per 2 minutes for 1st 7 days  of a new account, then 1 edit per 1 minute for next 7 days, then 2 edits per 1 minute for next 28 days, then 3 edits per 1 minute for next 90 days, subject to manual override on appeal. -- <strike>[[Special:Contributions/89.242.187.211|89.242.187.211]]</strike> [[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 04:36, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::::Hey Avemario! Thanks for bringing this up- truly appreciate your Thai knowledge! I will have a look over it and see if there's a place for all the articles you just mentioned. If anyone else has any suggestions, please post it here![[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 12:13, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
:I agree with Frank, we shouldn't discriminate against a certain area or language. Anyways, the vandal could switch to ASCII names, so there's not much point in blocking non-ASCII names. But I'm fine with an edits per minute limit. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 10:23, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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::::::We always say that any location that can be visited by a traveller, no matter how remote, can be listed here. [[Jom Jang]] for example, maybe a small place but the article does have some content, for the off the beaten path traveller maybe worth to visit after reading the little information that we have there. It is even mentioned in the [[Nong Khai]] article. I would leave this for sure. Ban Rong I can´t find an article for. Completely empty articles I would remove yes, but other places maybe we can promote on the Main Page, ask for help so editors who know the location can add info. The smallest unknown places can be the most beautiful or interesting places to explore. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 10:04, 24 April 2018 (EDT)
  
== Help! ==
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:::::::Hi Adzas!
 +
:::::::Thanx for your feedback!
  
I'm trying to remove vandalism on the page [[Midwest (United States of America)]]. But I can't, and I get the message:
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:::::::But I still stick by with what I have written.  I have never heard of any of these places I posted until I did a detailed search (and I know that I can find many more similar ones - I just did not want to overload!)And as you are aware, I know Thailand thoroughly, having visited virtually every Province! (and still do to keep things up to date)
  
This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your edit was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Link spamming by anonymous or recently-registered users
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:::::::If I (or most other persons want to see what is in Thailand, we visit the Provincial City page - after all, the Capital of the Province has the same name as the Province. And we read the "do" or other pages.
  
Why is reverting vandalism harmful?! (unsigned by [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/204.45.134.109 204.45.134.109])
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:::::::If the destination is "big" as Hua Hin is in Prachuap Khiri Khan Province, and Koh Samui in Surat Thani Province, then of course they need a separate article.
  
:Hi there, It may be that your edit included a link, which is something the system looks for from newly registered or anonymous IP editors (since they are often sources of spam). Sorry about that, it's a protection that helps keep Wikitravel's pages clean and spam-free. I recommend registering an account, and after you've become recognized by the community and the system, your edits can be properly attributed to you, etc. Welcome aboard!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:42, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::But these small places need to be in the Provincial (City) article I think, as many more people will get to read about them.
  
:Also, I have made that revert!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:58, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::And Muang Kut, which is an elephant place should really be moved to Chiang Mai, as there are several elephant places already there.
  
::Ok, I've made an account and I'm trying to revert vandalism on the page [[Mombasa]], but I cant, and I still get the same message! Im only trying to help wikitravel. [[User:Ÿ;;!!!|Ÿ;;!!!]] 09:31, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::::::And also, I now cannot find Ban Rong. Maybe Management removed it, but it is not in the Province page. [[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 03:54, 25 April 2018 (EDT)
  
:::I'm sorry, I realize you're helping by editing the page back to where it was before. Please keep making constructive edits -- we're happy to have you!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 03:07, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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::::::::Hello again! Apologies for the delayed response about this- I got tied up and just got to looking over this. Totally understand your point, Avemario. It was the same for me when I did a search about these places- there wasn't too much info and I had to do some serious digging. For [[Ban Muang Kut]], I agree it should be moved to [[Chiang Mai]] as the information on that page can easily be added in the "Do" section and "Elephants". As for [[Jom Jang]] and [[Nong Prue]], I feel like there's a bit of a grey area with these place even though they are significantly a lot smaller. For [[Jom Jang]], the village has a uniqueness with its population being mostly local women farmers and community project. For [[Nong Prue]], I'm torn between just adding the information to the [[Kanchanaburi]] page or leave it as it's own because it quite a distance away from the province and it could have some potential. But you're right about how the information is too minimal. I also can't find Ban Rong either so I'm not sure if that page got deleted. Love these discussions! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 16:49, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
== MVGreenland ==
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::::::And once more................ Hellfire Pass is 72Km out of Kanchanaburi, Srinakarin Dam is 54Km, and these are just two places distant from Kanchanaburi City which are listed in the Kanchanaburi article. Nong Prue is quite close to Srinakarin Dam. (Do not confuse it with the Nong Prue in Pattaya (Chon Buri Province), which is some 250Km to the south)
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So again, I think it should be moved.[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 19:10, 26 April 2018 (EDT)
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::::(and again, remember that the name of the Province is the same as that of the Capital City of the Province, so these places above are within Kanchanaburi Province!(same as England, where the Capital of Derbyshire is Derby, of Yorkshire is York etc).[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 05:48, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
  
User [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/MVGreenland MVGreenland] has been contributing many listings and photos (see WS). What do you think of these contributions? Touting?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:34, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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=Vote for May 2018 Homepage!=
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Hey guys! This April will be coming to an end in 4 days... whoa! That means it's time to vote for the next feature on our homepage for May! This month we featured Botswana as "Destination Of The Month" with a huge emphasis on Greek for all the other categories. What do you guys want to see? Let us know by commenting down below! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 16:19, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
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:A location in Japan where you can see the beautiful blossom, like Binbin suggested last month. For the rest let me think a bit more. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 09:43, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
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::[[Bora Bora]]! Just because I have been there long time ago and it is true paradise, blue waters, soft sand, coconut trees etc... [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 04:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
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:::Ooh [[Bora Bora]] sounds lovely! Maybe that can be the "Destination Of The Month" as a precursor to summer with an emphasis on Japan culture for the other categories? [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 16:59, 30 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
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::::Traditionally, we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted, so that people who are planning trips can make use of them. So, we should put Japanese cherry blossoms (which happen in April) on the DOTM in, say, January, if we can. It is useful to think ahead as far as what people are planning 3-4 months out. Right now I would think about late summer and fall travel. [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 17:05, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
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:::::yes, you´re right, I thought the blossom could still be seen in May but that´s not the case. [[Brasil]] is a nice location for summer holidays. Landmark: the statue in Rio (Christ the Redeemer). [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 18:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
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::::::''we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted''... Then we should think about [[Russia]]: the FIFA World Cup is taking place over there between June and July. Brazil is another good option as well as other south american places (maybe [[Uruguay]] as OTBP?). [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 02:38, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
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:::::::Great point Giulio! Time to start working on our World Cup article again soon too! Let´s learn some Russian then as language of the month! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 05:02, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
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::::::::I vote for Igbo as "Language of the month" [[Special:Contributions/98.158.206.105|98.158.206.105]] 12:24, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IBJoel
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:::::::::Wow! Lots of great suggestions guys! Maybe [[Bora Bora]] for Destination of the Month, Christ the Redeemer as Landmark, [[Uruguay]] as OTBP, French Polynesia as Cuisine Of The Month, Igbo for Language Of The Month. Thanks guys! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 15:32, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
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::::::::::Homepage has been updated! Thanks for voting everyone! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 11:18, 2 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
:Someone needs to review all the photos to ensure the licensing is correct...someone over on WT Shared needs to check these. Make sure to click the link to the photo. At first I clicked the link to the user stream and saw all the photos were copyrighted. However, when I clicked on the link to the photo ([http://wikitravel.org/shared/File:Raining_Qaqortoq.jpeg on WTS] and [http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilovegreenland/4929429831/ on flickr]) I noticed it was licensed CC-SA 2.5 on WTS & CC-A 2.0 on flickr. As far as edits go, I went through the most recent 100 edits and didn't see anything that goes against our policies. There were a couple photos of businesses added (1-2 hotels & a bookshop), but none of the wording in hotel listings this user has added sound like touting. IMO, the user seems like a very helpful contributor to our Greenland pages. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 00:24, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
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=GDPR Compliance Announcement=
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Hi everyone!
  
::Thanks for that -- I generally felt the same way, as did IBcash, about the tone of his edits. Skirting the line perhaps but nothing worse than other business owners do.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 01:29, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
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Starting on or before May 25th, 2018, Wikitravel will become GDPR compliant in accordance with the EU GDPR regulation.
  
== Selection of Destination of the Month and Off the Beaten Path for Main Page ==
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If you are visiting this forum from an EU IP address, you will see a pop-up overlay that looks like this:
  
Hey current editors! We have changed the Destination of the Month and Off the Beaten Path sections of the Main Page for October. However, we would value your input and suggestions in the [[Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates|Destination of the Month candidates page]] for following months. Please check it out! [[User:IBcash|IBcash]] 15:38, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
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[[File:GDPR page for WT.png|GDPR Notice from IB]]
  
:Obviously I'd like to feature a New Zealand destination - but first I need to get one to Star status! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 07:50, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
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After clicking "I Agree," this message should not appear again (unless you clear your browser cookies). You can learn more about this on [https://www.eugdpr.org this page]. Thank you. [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 14:32, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
  
::Albuquerque has been already featured in the past as a Destination of the Month. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:01, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
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=Slow servers?=
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My impression is that this site loads slowly. Have you had server issues? /[[User:Burbur|Burbur]] ([[User talk:Burbur|talk]]) 16:26, 21 May 2018 (EDT)
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:Hey Burbur! Not that I know of but I can go check that for you. Can you please let me know what operating system and browser you're using so I can investigate? Thanks! [[User:IB hill|IB hill]] ([[User talk:IB hill|talk]]) 16:48, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Latest revision as of 11:42, 22 May 2018

The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

You can find Archived discussions here: Travellers´pub Archives.

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

Business Listings: How Much is too Much?[edit]

Earlier today, a bus company that operates New Zealand's largest passenger transport network with daily services from Auckland to many towns and cities in the Waikato region made an account, and proceeded to add their listing to a WHOLE BUNCH of pages, which looked like spam from my end. Should we allow companies to add their listings to more than a certain number of pages? Yes? No? If we do, what could be the ramifications? What could potential questions, comments, and or snide remarks could arise? -- —The preceding comment was added by Tonikar (talkcontribs)

Good question. But I think their listing should only be added to the city where their headquarters is located (and maybe to small cities and towns where they are the only choice to get into). Just imagine if we allow this bus operator to add all its lines to Wikitravel articles, we will soon see chain restaurants, hotels, and other business add listings to all places where they operate (actually, we've seen quite a few cases like this before), which will soon turn Wikitravel to a yellow page. Plus our policy about touting is pretty clear about this: ...businesses should be listed in only one article for the town or district in which the business operates... . --Binbin (talk) 04:21, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
I agree with Binbin, we'd better stick to our touting policy. The risk of having chains adding their listings everywhere is too high (and we're not the Yellow Pages, aren't we?). GiulioC (talk) 05:24, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
If you are in New Zealand without a car, it is likely that you will use Intercity to get around. I think that there is only one other operator (Naked Bus) with a smaller national network and some regional operators (Atomic etc) and for a few destinations trains. So I think that it is fine to mention them in the get in section. However we don't need the full details about WiFi etc in every article. I would prefer that some information was added about the services to a particular destination - e.g. "X has two coaches per day from Auckland via Hamilton and one from Wellington via Napier. Coaches stop outside the post office." AlasdairW (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
AlasdairW, and Binbin bring up good points. This could be a slippery slope, but on this one occasion since they are one of the few transportation services listed on our site in some areas it seems relevant and helpful. Would it be okay if they specified amenities for travelers per each location? Tonikar (talk) 9:27, 17 March 2017 (PST)
I agree that we should stick with our policy, have the business listed once, probably best the country article, and there list some specific amenities if that adds value. In our external links policy it says clearly what not to list to, so if we make an exception for one business, soon more will follow. Adzas (talk) 12:40, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
Would it be good to review our policy, and add an addendum for the amount of posts that a company has added/ can add? Also, should we be reviewing these on a case by case basis; especially if we think it could be helpful for the traveler? Like AlasdairW, had said that it is likely you will come across this company's transportation system in NZ if travelling without a car... Tonikar (talk) 1:42, 17 March 2017 (PST)

I'm torn on this one too. First, I love Alasdair's point that a business should take the time, if they are going to try this, to make EACH listing specifically relevant to that page. If they don't want to take the time to point out the relevancy of their business to that particular destination (and they ought to be encouraged by us to do so), they should not have the privilege of being listed here.

Second, I am at a loss to find something wrong with listing a business on multiple pages, if those pages do not contain any (or a very small number) similar options. In this case, if you are considering traveling to a small town in NZ that is only served by this bus company, we ought to provide details as to how to catch a bus into/out of there if we have them. What is the harm? Now, if this is, say, New York City, where there are interminable bus and other transportation options for getting in and out, I would say that allowing companies to list all of them would be disastrous for Wikitravel, and of limited to zero use for the traveler. And don't even get me started on chain restaurants!

So perhaps there is a middle ground? Where there are many existing options, disallow the listing; where there are none or very few, allow them; and when allowed, the listing must be customized to that destination. And when we see a company engaging in this behavior, we ought to make contact with them as soon as possible, guide them, and have them provide a proposed list of everywhere they are intending to add their listing, as well as the specifics of how they will customize their listing to the page, BEFORE they spam it out everywhere publicly. How's that sound? IBobi (talk) 19:29, 22 March 2017 (EDT)

I agree. In principle, listing on multiple pages is not allowed , except where similar choices are limited and/or there're none or only a few similar listings (we do have this "something is better than nothing" policy). Yes, a prior communication with the companies who want to put their listings on multiple page sounds even better so that on one hand they can do it properly with our help, on the other we can kind of make sure things don't go out of control. I think we can start with this bus operator in NZ. What do you guys think? --Binbin (talk) 01:40, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

Map based wikitravel[edit]

Hello!

I wish to introduce a map based wikitravelish website impressionmap.org

I'm an avid reader and planned all trips based on info here. A big thanks first! However, articles are organized by meaningless place names (it's the only choice though), and it's not straightforward to figure out which place is where. Thus, planning bigger trips involves going back and forth between here and Google Maps, taking a long time.

It may be better to organize info by map itself and attach it to the map as snippets which will appear or disappear based on zoom level. More info and links can be added as popups. So I made the aforementioned website. You can zoom in to Amherst, MA or NYC (worse option as not much info is added) to see how it works. By the way, the website doesn't seem to work on IE and renders a bit ugly on browsers released before March 2017

Asking for advice and opinions! If you would, edit it as well!

Hopefully this is the right place to do such introduction. No bad intention, just wish to make travel info presentation more intuitive and trip planning easier Wkenmomo (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

Sorry for such a late response! We appreciate your time spent on Wikitravel -- especially for adding edits to the Liaocheng page. We hope to see more thoughtful edits like the ones you have provided. Thanks for the info! --Tonikar (talk) 01:50, 06 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Wkenmomo! I finally got a chance to check out the website you had created, and I think its pretty cool! I like that it sums up exactly where I may want to travel if I want to shop, or find out more about American history! I was wondering -- and you kind of explained already-- but your purpose for creating a map that works as so? How would this help benefit Wikitravel users? Thanks! --Tonikar (talk) 012:39, 07 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Tonikar, sorry for the late reply. Why I create it is that I want a more direct way of accessing geo info. I used to read here, search on Google Map, write what it is about and save it in my maps to compare with others. A great hassle and Google maps aren't designed for this. My purpose is to make designing "optimized" trips easier and I really hope to plan my next trip to Canada intuitively and effortlessly. Do wikitravel need a dynamic map? Wikitravel is welcome to host this map and embed it to the right zoom and boundary. The map is itself editable.Wkenmomo (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
Tonikar, Wkenmomo I think it would be a great idea to include links to Wikimapia. I'm working on US Hwy 2 between Monroe and Stephens Pass. Here is an example of what you get for Skykomish_(Washington) [1]. We could actually provide links to WikiTravel on the WikiMapia page. Ideas? Kgrr (talk) 08:46, 9 July 2017 (EDT)

Added section[edit]

Homosexuality is illegal in India under a colonial-era law (Section 377) dating back to 1860 that criminalize sodomy with penalties of Homosexuality is illegal in India under a colonial-era law (Section 377) dating back to 1860 that has sentences of life imprisonment, fines, beatings and viligante executions. The law has been used to harass the LGBT community and to force them into hiding. Police officers have harassed, extorted and blackmailed, beat, and turned a blind eye to violence towards homosexuals and transexuals in India. Businessess and public accomodations are not LGBT-friendly and will deny you. LGBT are emphatically discouraged from visiting. —The preceding comment was added by 2600:1:f102:19e1:c03:aa02:d96d:bb58 (talkcontribs)

Hi, thank you for your recent contributions. But for your disputes with other users, I have to say I prefer current wording about LGBT which is in a more neutral tone. Yes, India is, compared to many western countries, of a more conservative view about LGBT, but progresses have been made with the ruling from the Supreme Court about LGBT rights and increased awareness. From what my understanding, LGBT people have gained wider acceptance in India over the years. So I think like many other sensitive issues, we should stay to facts and refrain from exaggerating any one-sided views. Plus, personally, as a foreigner who's visited India quite a few times I find general Indians very friendly and welcoming, and I think as long as one uses common sense and not publicly display intimacy when visiting India, they won't face any problems. Would love to hear more comments about this though. --Binbin (talk) 05:37, 6 January 2018 (EST)
I agree with Binbin, in our articles and also in our discussions we always try to remain neutral. This is a travel site, no need to go into laws and politics, as long as a traveler has a good idea what to expect. Looking at further articles online, wasn´t there a historic ruling from India’s Supreme Court in August 2017 confirming the right of the country’s LGBT people to express their sexuality without discrimination? Let´s avoid an edit war in the article, it´s good to discuss these things here before continuously editing the article, lets see what the input is from others here on the site. Adzas (talk) 06:20, 6 January 2018 (EST)
This does, as Adzas pointed out, appear to be a classic edit war on the India page. Since there are 2 IP addresses and no actual WT user accounts involved, it may not be possible to mediate or resolve in a mutual way. In this case, I recommend that the Administrators huddle up and decide what to do; it may be that one editor is pushing an agenda -- if that is the case, I recommend a short ban of that IP to get the user's attention, along with a Talk Page (India) discussion of the issue. If the edit war continues afterward without participation in the discussion by the agenda-driven IP user, that IP should be blocked for 3 months. The page can also be protected for a short time if necessary. IBobi (talk) 18:08, 8 January 2018 (EST)

Spam Blacklist[edit]

Hello all, please take note of what links you are adding to the spam list. I've seen a couple links added that come from reputable sites/organizations.

Anyways, thanks for the vigilance you all have shown in your patrolling, it makes life so much easier and it is very much appreciated! IBThomas (talk) 12:25, 17 January 2018 (EST)

help board[edit]

The Recent Changes for Hungarian is VERY backed up with spam. Any help in this department would be greatly appreciated.

It should also be noted that this section in the Traveler's Pub can be used as a help board of sorts, where others can ask for help, or offer their services. Hopefully this can facilitate more of a community where people can work together. IBThomas (talk) 17:00, 17 January 2018 (EST)

Just had a look, all clear for now, will keep an eye on that version too. Adzas (talk) 04:41, 23 January 2018 (EST)

Please make suggestions for WT homepage content[edit]

Hello! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for February by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Monday January 29th. We will announce the winning topics Tuesday the 30th. Thank you!Ncahill (talk) 14:11, 22 January 2018 (EST)

For Destination of the Month, what about Mexico, since the largest underwater cave was discovered there very recently? Interesting location for sure! Mexican cuisine is also nice. Adzas (talk) 09:42, 23 January 2018 (EST)
Maybe for "Off the Beaten Path" you could try Prachuap Khiri Khan in Thailand. This place is a paradise, and not at all expensive. Regrettably, more and more tourists are coming here, so go there before it becomes another Phuket or similar. Avemario (talk) 04:04, 24 January 2018 (EST)
I second Adzas idea of Mexico (and Mexican cuisine). Another option could be Venice (it's Carnival time). For OTBP you could try some small town/village around Europe (there are dozens of them). GiulioC (talk) 05:27, 26 January 2018 (EST)
Hey everyone, these are all great ideas! Still need suggestions for Language of the Month and Landmark of the Month. Shall I extend the voting until tomorrow the 31st?Ncahill (talk) 10:38, 30 January 2018 (EST)
I always vote for Mexican cuisine. For language, I would probably throw in Swahili. IBJoel (talk)IBJoel (talk) 11:08, 30 January 2018 (EST)
For Landmark of the month maybe we can do Mỹ Sơn in Vietnam, they're ruins of old Hindu Temples. IBThomas (talk) 12:31, 30 January 2018 (EST)
Hi everyone! Thank you for your wonderful suggestions this past week. Here are the winners for the home page content for February. Destination of the Month: Mexico, Off the Beaten Path: Prachuap Khiri Khan, Cuisine of the Month: Mexican, Language of the Month: Swahili, and Landmark of the Month: Mỹ Sơn. (Boy was Mexico popular!). We hope to make this a regular thing for the monthly home page content. An announcement will be made here on the Pub during the last week of the month asking for user's ideas on what the Wikitravel home page should feature. Thanks again to those who participated!Ncahill (talk) 11:39, 31 January 2018 (EST)
Great choices! Probably too late now, but since the Winter Olympics are taking place in Pyeongchang from Feb 9-25, maybe we should highlight this location too this month? Only just realised that this is happening this month. Adzas (talk) 07:53, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Bangkok Hotels[edit]

I just checked the "Bangkok" section of Wikitravel, and I saw in the "Hotels" section, a number of hotel listings. Mainly upmarket ones. I believe that these should have been placed in individual District articles, Also, they're somewhat touty. Should I remove them? Avemario (talk) 03:55, 24 January 2018 (EST)

Hello Avemario, you are correct, those listings should be moved to the respective district articles. If you feel a listing is pure advertising you can remove it, otherwise maybe adjust it a little if it is a good location to have mentioned. Just make sure you specify in the summary field of your edit what you are doing. Thanks as always! Adzas (talk) 04:46, 25 January 2018 (EST)
OK, will do. Just give me a couple of days as it is a holiday weekend here. Avemario (talk) 01:32, 26 January 2018 (EST)
OK, all sorted now. Avemario (talk) 02:20, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Thank you! Adzas (talk) 07:33, 4 February 2018 (EST)

Home Page Content Voting for March 2018[edit]

Hi All! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for March by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, February 28th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, March 1st. Thank you!Ncahill (talk) 11:35, 20 February 2018 (EST)

Destination of the Month could be Florence, early spring is one of the best moments to visit the city (and as far as I can see it has never been chosen before). Off the Beaten Path: Ronda in Spain. We could choose Cuisine and Language of a specific region: after all many of our phrasebook pages have sections about ordering food and drink. What do you think? GiulioC (talk) 06:07, 23 February 2018 (EST)
I just got a message from someone about an Indonesian food delivery where I live, just looking at the pictures makes me hungry, for Cuisine I would suggest Indonesian! Off the Beaten Path Papua New Guinea? Destination of the Month I like Giulio´s suggestion Florence. Landmark of the Month the Abbey at Mont Saint Michel? Such a special place. Adzas (talk) 10:10, 23 February 2018 (EST)
Indonesian cuisine! Good suggestion! GiulioC (talk) 05:36, 24 February 2018 (EST)
Landmark of the Month: the Botanical Garden in Padua. It's the oldest in the world, established in 1545, recently renovated and (sadly) often overlooked. GiulioC (talk) 11:45, 26 February 2018 (EST)
I second the call for Indonesian cuisine! Or Pakistani, alternatively. IBJoel (talk) 98.158.206.112 11:43, 1 March 2018 (EST)
Need a tie breaker for OTBP and Landmark please!Ncahill (talk) 15:53, 1 March 2018 (EST)
Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions! Here are the winners: Destination of the Month, Florence, Off the Beaten Path, Ronda in Spain, Cuisine of the Month, Javanese/Indonesian, Language of the Month, Indonesian, and Landmark of the Month, Abbey at Mont Saint Michel. Agreed with OTBP and Landmark options? Ran out of time so I chose these. Thank you again for posting, be ready for wonderful suggestions for the April home page!Ncahill (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2018 (EST)

Petra edits[edit]

Hi all! Take a look at some recent Petra edits that were reverted by Giulio. In my opinion, this is a complex case, and Giulio handled it correctly, as far as the reverts go. The information added was not strictly travel related, and was added in a format not consistent with a travel guide. However, that does not mean the edits were totally without merit. It might be useful to some travelers to know that some animal rights organizations have expressed concern over how some animals at this site have been treated. The information would, however, need to be presented in a less political, agenda-driven manner, and more like a tip for a traveler than a screed against animal cruelty.

I think what is missing is a follow-up note on user OliCharlton's talk page, and perhaps on the Petra talk page as well, asking the user to please continue editing WT, but in a manner consistent with a travel guide. In this way, we open up the possibility of adding a good faith editor to the site, rather than simply shutting someone down.

What do you think? IBobi (talk) 13:55, 21 February 2018 (EST)

I agree with the revert, I would have removed it too, if it was just a line or two about animal cruelty it would have been ok I think. This user should have had a welcome message and some feedback, probably with the increased spam we had lately this one maybe slipped through? Usually new users who are serious about contributing find us on our talk pages if they don´t agree with an edit we made, glad OliCharlton managed to get in contact and hopefully we will see many valuable edits from her in the future! Adzas (talk) 14:50, 21 February 2018 (EST)
I think that user had good intentions and that their info can be useful to travelers because it can allow travelers to anticipate what they may see when they travel to that particular destination. However, the user could have used a more informational/neutral tone. Ncahill (talk) 15:04, 21 February 2018 (EST)
Hello, thank you for your feedback. I will amend the text to be less political and more 'travel guide' like. Sorry I am new to this. Please let me know if my edit is ok.. —The preceding comment was added by OliCharlton (talkcontribs)
Hello, I'm sorry I completely forgot to leave a message to OliCharlton but there was something in the tone of her edit that made me think it was not coming from a "valuable user" (that is someone really interested in Wikitravel's goals). Of course we should not encourage cruelty to animals but discussing animals rights is not what Wikitravel is about, isn't it? GiulioC (talk) 03:26, 22 February 2018 (EST)
Hello, thanks for your reply. I think its really important for people to know this goes on. I was so upset in seeing this! And had I known I might have reconsidered my plans. If I amend to this will that be ok?
WARNING' It is advisable to walk rather than use the working animals as transport. In 2018, (PETA) Asia released a video showing the abuse of these animals. This included animals forced to carry tourists or pull carriages every day with no shelter, handlers beating and whipping their animals and animals with open fly infested wounds. —The preceding comment was added by OliCharlton (talkcontribs)
Hi, glad to see the discussion. The the new version is better, but I don't think the word "WARNING" is really needed. Also, we sign our comments on discussion pages (but not in articles) by entering "~~~~" at the end. Hope to see more of your contributions in the future. Cheers! --Binbin (talk) 10:27, 22 February 2018 (EST)
Hi, this new version is much better. I agree that "WARNING" is not needed. GiulioC (talk) 11:12, 22 February 2018 (EST)

Great thank you, I will make the edit now "OliCharlton (talk) 21:08, 22 February 2018 (EST)"

April 2018 suggestions for WT Homepage content![edit]

A little bit to the game to this but each month the content of our homepage changes. We'd like Wikitravel users to help decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for April by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, April 4th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, April 5th. Thank you!

Botswana! IBobi (talk) 17:02, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
Ooh! That can be an interesting one. Anyone else have suggestions for Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month?
What about Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic? Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in Greece as well, like Zakynthos. Why not Greek as the Language of the Month then, and the Corinth Canal as the Landmark of the Month? Keeping it all in one country, long time since I have been there but a lovely country to visit! Adzas (talk) 04:50, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
Botswana would be great! Also choosing a greek island for OTBP: Zakynthos is good but we may choose some other island (Ithaca?) GiulioC (talk) 11:12, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
Wow! Great suggestions, Adzas and GiulioC! I think having those spots from Greece as OTBP, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month are all lovely idea as some people may not have heard of them or never been... like me! IB hill (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
I was thinking a city in Japan though, like Nara (with the nice cherry season), but Botswana is a great pick too! Keeping it all in one country sounds like a very good idea. I like it. Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic, Greek as the Language of the Month, Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in Greece. Good idea! I'm for it. --Binbin (talk) 04:01, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
I´ve seen pictures of these cherry blossoms in Japan, beautiful! Which months can that usually be seen, we can still use Nara next time? Beautiful! Adzas (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2018 (EDT)

Wikitravel Software Update Coming Next Week[edit]

Hello all Wikitravellers! This is one of your admins on Wikitravel. Just sending an update that our site will be expecting a upgrade sometime next week. Should anyone come across any issues, please e-mail [email protected](dot)org or message me on my talk page. IB hill (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Vandalism on WT today[edit]

If you happen to see a strange looking page on WT today, please let us know. Don't be alarmed, it's just a vandal. Our Legal team are in the process of tracing the related IPs and will be alerting local law enforcement immediately. Thank you, IBobi (talk) 15:22, 10 April 2018 (EDT)

WT Software Upgrade Happening Now![edit]

Hi everyone! Heads up that as of Wednesday, April 11th at 12:05pm PST, the site will be down and ready for upgrade! IB hill (talk) 15:05, 11 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Hi, IB hill,
Due to the software upgrade this time, we have some bugs on ja:WT. We can't display some of our pages correctly, with a internal error message instead. Here is an example:
[[email protected]] /ja/%E7%A5%AD%E3%82%84%E3%82%A4%E3%83%99%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88/4%E6%9C%88 Error from line 158 of /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/extensions/Breadcrumb.php: Call to undefined method User::getSkin()
Backtrace:
#0 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/extensions/Breadcrumb.php(64): BreadcrumbLinks(array, Title)
#1 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/includes/Setup.php(855): setupBreadcrumb()
#2 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/includes/WebStart.php(114): require_once(string)
#3 /var/www/html/wikitravel.org/mw-1.30.0/index.php(55): require(string)
#4 {main}
This error seems to happen all the sub pages which contains slash mark ("/") on the title (Such as "Tokyo/Chiyoda").
In addition, I couldn't write on your talk page, because it is totally protected (That's why I wrote my message here) Shoestring (talk) 08:14, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Shoestring!
Thanks for bringing this to our attention! I'm sending a report for you right now. Apologies that you couldn't talk on my talk page (you should be able to now). Will be moving our messages over there. Please keep me posted with any other issues. I plan to check on the Japan page today to see if I come across anything and will talk to you there. Thanks again! IB hill (talk) 13:20, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
Oh and also if you can let me know what device and browser you're using. That'll be much appreciated! IB hill (talk) 13:25, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
It should be working now! Please let me know if there's anything else JA WT needs. Thanks for letting us know! IB hill (talk) 18:23, 12 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Traveller of the Month[edit]

I do note that the Traveller of the Month page is defective. I did try to post this on the edit page there, but it will not allow me. Although it is an old page, maybe you can either correct it or delete it. Obviously I would prefer the former, as I use it to prove to people that it is a totally credible website. Your call..................

Avemario (talk) 04:02, 14 April 2018 (EDT)

I might add that the Thai Phrasebook has a similar problem!

Avemario (talk) 08:08, 16 April 2018 (EDT)

Hi Avemario, thanks for letting us know! The Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario page can only be edited by admin, the page is protected. Is there anything you wanted to have changed? The Thai phrasebook seems ok to me, I can edit it, can you get in at all or just not save your edit? Adzas (talk) 11:02, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Wanted to introduce myself as one of the newer admins and jump in to this thread. Seems like Adzas beat me to answering your questions! Please let us know what you would like to correct or change for your Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario page. I can also correct the Thai phrasebook as well. We also had a software upgrade last week and have been running QA. However, there may still be little bugs that pop out. If you notice anything, please feel free to reach out and let us know the issue + browser & operating system you're using! IB hill (talk) 12:00, 16 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Hillary, the banner on the Traveller of the month page is extending at the bottom to cover the text. Also, it is time we re-started the Traveller of the Month back up again -- and maybe rename it Wikitraveller of the month? IBobi (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
Hi!
Thanx for your answers, both Adzas (who I know already), and IB hill.
I am using Firefox on a laptop computer.
The problem is that, with the "Traveller of the Month", the discussion start is up under the pic!
What I can read starts with "our gratitude by featuring them........"
With the Thai Phrasebook, everything can be read, but the writing is scrunched up against the pic.
I have checked a few other Thai Province websites, but they are normal.
So I leave it up to you to sort this out.
Avemario (talk) 06:28, 17 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey AveMario! Gotcha. I submitted a report for you just now and hopefully we will get that fixed for you quickly! IB hill (talk) 11:58, 17 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Pages Currently Under Evaluation[edit]

Heads up that as of 4/18/18, we're currently putting pages about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market, Wat Chan, and Dusun Glondok under evaluation as we're working on determining if it adheres to the site's policies and guidelines and style. If anyone has any thoughts or know anything about these sights and destinations, please reply down below here. Would love to make this a collaborative effort on Wikitravel! IB hill (talk) 19:27, 18 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Hi! The first two of these three appear to be Thai, but I cannot find them on Wikitravel! The third is in Indonesia and I can find it. Can you please give me more info about these above two? If they are Thai, I should be able to resolve it.Avemario (talk) 03:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
I can´t find the first two mentioned articles, but my first thought would be that a market should not have its own article. It can be described in the article of where it is located. Dusun Glondok I can´t find much information about online, it seems to be a little village? The writer of the article should specify where exactly it is and if there are any tourist attractions so more information can be added or rewritten. Adzas (talk) 09:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
update - I found the floating market info, on Tamonwan user page. I removed the first paragraph as this was copied from another website and I removed the external links for now. For the rest I would move the original info to a location article and then remove it from the user page. Adzas (talk) 09:57, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
Hello hello! I realized I left my computer without adding the pages. The Thai content about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market and Wat Chan are posted on Tamonwan user page and on Jeechnps user page. I'm curious to know what you guys think about the content and how we could better blend the info with the site. Seems like you're a Thai expert, Avemario! If you get the chance, maybe you can check it out? IB hill (talk) 11:55, 19 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
OK............
The Floating Market is in Thonburi in Bangkok,and is already listed there. I have updated the opening hours, but (personally) I do not ::::think that we need all the info that the Tamonwan page provides.
After all, do we need a travel website, or a multi page book for each destination?
I think that too much info on a place tends to be a distraction from the rest of the area. As it is, if someone wants to go there, if they ::::are in a hotel nearby, or go to a Travel Agent, they will get all the detailed stuff and can make their choice.
We do not need Wikitravel "overcrowded".
And the same with Wat Chan,which is a Buddhist Temple (Wat) in Ban Chan (Chan Town)
This is in Chiang Mai Province, some 150Km North West towards Pai (which is on Wikitravel).
Chiang Mai has many attractions, and we need again to be careful we do not make the attraction into a book!
It seems from what I can read online that this place has only one decent hotel, run by Karen (Christian refugees from Myanmar, so it is an ::::out of the way place to get involved in this culture. There is transport to here from Chiang Mai in yellow songteows apparently (2 bench ::::pickup trucks).
It seems that there are also minibuses from both Chiang Mai, and Pai.
I would be inclined to only put a short article on the Chiang Mai website, just describing what it is, that there is a hotel, and how to ::::get there.Avemario (talk) 06:41, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Appreciate you taking the time to have a deeper look and thanks for adding the floating market in Thonburi on the Bangkok/Thonburi page. And completely agree with your suggestions. I'll have a look on their pages again and see what I can do. Thanks! IB hill (talk) 12:04, 20 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Above is very helpful, great as always Avemario! I do think it is important to find out why those users are adding all this info on their user pages. As mentioned, we have had school projects before, we used to let them work on their user pages as long as all that info is moved or removed in a short period of time, either to an existing article or a new article. If the users in question don´t communicate with us and the info is not according to our guidelines (either an article already exists or the info does not justify an article etc) we should move/remove it as soon as possible. As the Travellers Pub still does not seem to appear in Recent Changes, new users may not see our discussion, so we should check on their talk pages (the messages I left so far no reaction yet as far as I can see). Great though, I´ve learnt a lot about those locations in the past days, that´s what it is all about I think. Adzas (talk) 06:34, 21 April 2018 (EDT)

Nong Prue[edit]

I have noticed an article about this place in Kanchanaburi Province in Thailand. The information is minimal, and a VERY thorough check of the internet shows virtually no information at all worthy of tourists.Personally, I would delete the article.Avemario (talk) 06:53, 21 April 2018 (EDT)

And I just had a really serious look at it,and found virtually nothing at all on the internet, other that there is also a Nong Prue in Pattaya. :I still think it needs deleting - there is little info justifying moving it to the Kanchanaburi page.Avemario (talk) 07:59, 22 April 2018 (EDT)
And as much as I hate being the pain in the arse which I am - I just noticed an article on Jom Jang, which is in Nong Khai Province in ::Thailand.There is virtually no info in this article, which was added many years ago, and it is only a few Km from Nong Khai City.I think it ::should be deleted, and the info moved to the Nong Khai page.Avemario (talk) 06:18, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
And yet again......................... Ban Rong in Lamphang Province has absolutely no info about the place. So why not remove it Avemario (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Once more................ Ban Muang Kut is a place put in by advertisers who want to promote the place. Not wanted on Wikitravel.
The trip should be a place to go on the Chiang Mai page. Avemario (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Thanks for bringing this up- truly appreciate your Thai knowledge! I will have a look over it and see if there's a place for all the articles you just mentioned. If anyone else has any suggestions, please post it here!IB hill (talk) 12:13, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
We always say that any location that can be visited by a traveller, no matter how remote, can be listed here. Jom Jang for example, maybe a small place but the article does have some content, for the off the beaten path traveller maybe worth to visit after reading the little information that we have there. It is even mentioned in the Nong Khai article. I would leave this for sure. Ban Rong I can´t find an article for. Completely empty articles I would remove yes, but other places maybe we can promote on the Main Page, ask for help so editors who know the location can add info. The smallest unknown places can be the most beautiful or interesting places to explore. Adzas (talk) 10:04, 24 April 2018 (EDT)
Hi Adzas!
Thanx for your feedback!
But I still stick by with what I have written. I have never heard of any of these places I posted until I did a detailed search (and I know that I can find many more similar ones - I just did not want to overload!)And as you are aware, I know Thailand thoroughly, having visited virtually every Province! (and still do to keep things up to date)
If I (or most other persons want to see what is in Thailand, we visit the Provincial City page - after all, the Capital of the Province has the same name as the Province. And we read the "do" or other pages.
If the destination is "big" as Hua Hin is in Prachuap Khiri Khan Province, and Koh Samui in Surat Thani Province, then of course they need a separate article.
But these small places need to be in the Provincial (City) article I think, as many more people will get to read about them.
And Muang Kut, which is an elephant place should really be moved to Chiang Mai, as there are several elephant places already there.
And also, I now cannot find Ban Rong. Maybe Management removed it, but it is not in the Province page. Avemario (talk) 03:54, 25 April 2018 (EDT)
Hello again! Apologies for the delayed response about this- I got tied up and just got to looking over this. Totally understand your point, Avemario. It was the same for me when I did a search about these places- there wasn't too much info and I had to do some serious digging. For Ban Muang Kut, I agree it should be moved to Chiang Mai as the information on that page can easily be added in the "Do" section and "Elephants". As for Jom Jang and Nong Prue, I feel like there's a bit of a grey area with these place even though they are significantly a lot smaller. For Jom Jang, the village has a uniqueness with its population being mostly local women farmers and community project. For Nong Prue, I'm torn between just adding the information to the Kanchanaburi page or leave it as it's own because it quite a distance away from the province and it could have some potential. But you're right about how the information is too minimal. I also can't find Ban Rong either so I'm not sure if that page got deleted. Love these discussions! IB hill (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
And once more................ Hellfire Pass is 72Km out of Kanchanaburi, Srinakarin Dam is 54Km, and these are just two places distant from Kanchanaburi City which are listed in the Kanchanaburi article. Nong Prue is quite close to Srinakarin Dam. (Do not confuse it with the Nong Prue in Pattaya (Chon Buri Province), which is some 250Km to the south)

So again, I think it should be moved.Avemario (talk) 19:10, 26 April 2018 (EDT)

(and again, remember that the name of the Province is the same as that of the Capital City of the Province, so these places above are within Kanchanaburi Province!(same as England, where the Capital of Derbyshire is Derby, of Yorkshire is York etc).Avemario (talk) 05:48, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

Vote for May 2018 Homepage![edit]

Hey guys! This April will be coming to an end in 4 days... whoa! That means it's time to vote for the next feature on our homepage for May! This month we featured Botswana as "Destination Of The Month" with a huge emphasis on Greek for all the other categories. What do you guys want to see? Let us know by commenting down below! IB hill (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

A location in Japan where you can see the beautiful blossom, like Binbin suggested last month. For the rest let me think a bit more. Adzas (talk) 09:43, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
Bora Bora! Just because I have been there long time ago and it is true paradise, blue waters, soft sand, coconut trees etc... Adzas (talk) 04:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
Ooh Bora Bora sounds lovely! Maybe that can be the "Destination Of The Month" as a precursor to summer with an emphasis on Japan culture for the other categories? IB hill (talk) 16:59, 30 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Traditionally, we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted, so that people who are planning trips can make use of them. So, we should put Japanese cherry blossoms (which happen in April) on the DOTM in, say, January, if we can. It is useful to think ahead as far as what people are planning 3-4 months out. Right now I would think about late summer and fall travel. IBobi (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
yes, you´re right, I thought the blossom could still be seen in May but that´s not the case. Brasil is a nice location for summer holidays. Landmark: the statue in Rio (Christ the Redeemer). Adzas (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted... Then we should think about Russia: the FIFA World Cup is taking place over there between June and July. Brazil is another good option as well as other south american places (maybe Uruguay as OTBP?). GiulioC (talk) 02:38, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
Great point Giulio! Time to start working on our World Cup article again soon too! Let´s learn some Russian then as language of the month! Adzas (talk) 05:02, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
I vote for Igbo as "Language of the month" 98.158.206.105 12:24, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IBJoel
Wow! Lots of great suggestions guys! Maybe Bora Bora for Destination of the Month, Christ the Redeemer as Landmark, Uruguay as OTBP, French Polynesia as Cuisine Of The Month, Igbo for Language Of The Month. Thanks guys! IB hill (talk) 15:32, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
Homepage has been updated! Thanks for voting everyone! IB hill (talk) 11:18, 2 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

GDPR Compliance Announcement[edit]

Hi everyone!

Starting on or before May 25th, 2018, Wikitravel will become GDPR compliant in accordance with the EU GDPR regulation.

If you are visiting this forum from an EU IP address, you will see a pop-up overlay that looks like this:

GDPR Notice from IB

After clicking "I Agree," this message should not appear again (unless you clear your browser cookies). You can learn more about this on this page. Thank you. IB hill (talk) 14:32, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Slow servers?[edit]

My impression is that this site loads slowly. Have you had server issues? /Burbur (talk) 16:26, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Hey Burbur! Not that I know of but I can go check that for you. Can you please let me know what operating system and browser you're using so I can investigate? Thanks! IB hill (talk) 16:48, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill