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(Wikitravel New Home Page- 11 July 2013 11AM PST: sunny Glasgow)
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:Nice work, Alex!
:Nice work, Alex!
:It would be great to make the switch to using UTC time stamps - it's not called "Universal" for nothing and now that the owners of this site don't live on the East Coast of the US, it seems a bit anomalous (and even US-centric) to have every post on discussion pages still stamped "EST". Most people know (or can usually calculate) their offset from UTC, but the same is not true of Eastern Standard Time. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[mailto:[email protected]?Subject=From_a_user_of_Wikitravel <font color="green">e-mail</font>]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 05:54, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:It would be great to make the switch to using UTC time stamps - it's not called "Universal" for nothing and now that the owners of this site don't live on the East Coast of the US, it seems a bit anomalous (and even US-centric) to have every post on discussion pages still stamped "EST". Most people know (or can usually calculate) their offset from UTC, but the same is not true of Eastern Standard Time. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[mailto:[email protected]?Subject=From_a_user_of_Wikitravel <font color="green">e-mail</font>]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 05:54, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Oh, I forgot. It gets worse. [[Maine]] is now on Eastern Daylight Savings Time (EDT) so we now have to calculate another hour's offset. Very useful for all those in the tropics! (Not that I have that problem here in sunny [[Glasgow]]. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[mailto:[email protected]?Subject=From_a_user_of_Wikitravel <font color="green">e-mail</font>]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 08:45, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
:Oh, I forgot. It gets worse. [[Maine]] is now on Eastern Daylight (Savings) Time (EDT) so we now have to calculate another hour's offset. Very useful for all those in the tropics! (Not that I have that problem here in sunny [[Glasgow]]. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[mailto:[email protected]?Subject=From_a_user_of_Wikitravel <font color="green">e-mail</font>]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 08:45, 11 July 2013 (EDT)

Revision as of 12:51, 11 July 2013

The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the Mediawiki software, please post that on the Technical requests page on Wikitravel Shared instead.

If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution may be the place you are looking for.

Please sweep the pub

Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it will get too noisy and hard to read. If you see an old conversation (ie dormant for a month or more) that could or should be moved to another page, please do so, and note there that it has been swept in from the pub.

  • A question regarding a destination article should be swept to the article discussion page
  • A discussion regarding a policy or the subject of an expedition can be swept to the policy or expedition discussion page
  • A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question.
  • A pointer to a discussion going on elsewhere, such as a notice of a star nomination or or a request to comment on another talk page, can be removed when it is two months old. Any discussion that occurred in the pub can be swept to to where the main discussion took place.

Any discussions that do not fall into any of these categories, and are not of any special importance for posterity, should be archived to Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives and removed from here. If you are not sure where to put a discussion, leave it alone — it's better to spend your efforts on those that you do know where to place.

New administrators nomination

We have a new nomination for the administrator on Wikitravel. Please have a look at Administrator nominations. Best, IBAlex 20:34, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Congratulations go to Nurg, one of our most senior contributors with ten years under his belt and the first editor community nominated in a long while for admin privileges to meet the criteria! --118dot93dot73dot30 04:56, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

Improvement Ideas

We are planning to revitalize Wikitravel and our community! In 2013 we would like to improve technicality and usability of the site and we are open to any ideas! Please let us know of any new features you would like to have on WT and share with us your suggestions on how to make Wikitravel better. I am not talking about any particular pages, this is an open question for improvement ideas. What are the features and functionalists you would like to see on Wikitravel? Please write them below. Firstly we will be upgrading the software, afterwards we will work on improving the functionalists, step by step. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. kind regards, IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

A new contributor here, Fred Ashmore. I think Wikitravel is a terrific source of information and as a regular traveller and incurable motor mouth would enjoy contributing occasionally. But might it be possible to make the editting - well, just more familiar in feel? Not being Techie, I am accustomed to an Editor which lets the user see what what's happening without having to preview. For example the BLOGGER editor (OK, I know that Wikitravel doesn't have Google behind it, but still....) 31 May 2013
Please enable the API. I would love to use Wikitravel with my iPad App (Wikipanion) 06:24, 14 January 2013 (EST)
Thank you for your suggestion! We will be working on that! IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I know this is going to come across as very snippy - but I really think it important that IBadmins should read this page at least at the beginning and end of their working shift and leave some sort of reply - even if it's only a holding reply (so as not to create a bad impression). If you read down, you will see that many topics are still waiting an authoritative reply, and if you are sincere about wanting to "revitalize Wikitravel and our community" this task is probably at least as important as welcoming robot spammers and then deleting their accounts... --118dot93dot73dot30 18:40, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
The topics that are waiting for replay are all suggested by you, dear User:118dot93dot73dot30. Again, we would first do the upgrade and then start working on all the ideas you suggested- Default image sizes in Thumbnails, Template:Panorama, Renovating our Listing format. thank you for your patience and cooperation. Kind regards, IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I would like to have a way to mark all the details whit a date so it is easy to see how up do date some part of a article is. Like a update="2013-05" attribute to eat/do/sleep/... tags. Year and month is enough precise, but it should show up in the article. Denn (talk) 02:29, 8 May 2013 (EDT)
The most important thing to me are the coordinates to be used whit a GPS. There are the attributes lat="" and long="", but the coordinates are not displayed in the article. This should be fixed. Additional it would be great to have a GPX export function for all the stuff whit coordinates (per article and country would be perfect). I'm not sure if this is already possible, but also the whole articles should have coordinates. The coordinates should have a link to a map (openstreetmap). I can also offer some help whit coding. Denn (talk) 02:29, 8 May 2013 (EDT)
I'm a long-time Wikitravel contributor who was disappointed in 2012 with the way Internet Brands was treating the community and the site. I hardly contribute here anymore, but I do stop by and see how things are going. It's great that you are asking for suggestions. That's the spirit I think you'll need a lot of for rebuilding. I'd offer that of these suggestions, you consider moving to the top of the list anything that will nuture and enlarge the contributor community. From my perspective, the most important technical change would be an API to offer any content changes to other sites. The second would be working with the WV... community to help them accept contributions from this API. Why would that matter? First, it's a sign that Internet Brands is moving beyond hostility and control to openness and community. Second, it would make me think that if I made contributions here, I could help both Wikitravel and WV..., whereas if I contribute at WV... then Wikitravel would not pick it up. It would give me a reason to move back to Wikitravel. In any case, best wishes for the renewal. P.S. an easy first step towards openness and community would be to stop blacklisting the word WV... I can't believe I need to bowdlerize that word here. JimDeLaHunt (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
If you genuinely wish to assist travellers with an up-to-date travelguide, there is one very good reason to continue to contribute here: audience size. Due to superior Search Engine Optimisation, Wikitravel remains the number one search result for many travel related searches.
I think IBAlex was genuine when she seeded this post - unfortunately the reality is that NONE of the suggestions made have been implemented or even given a timetable - not even the technically trivial ones. IBobi and the other IBadmins talk a good game but either they are starved of technical resources or they don't really care about actually making any improvements.
The clearest example of this inaction is the topic below of Default image sizes in Thumbnails. This is a change that would require 6 minutes of a competent technicians time yet after 8 weeks there is still no action or even timetable for an action. No, IB seem to have learnt nothing about nurturing a community from the fork that was a direct result of their previous neglect. --W. Franke-mailtalk 03:30, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

New Main Page

We have updated today the Main Page and added a fully new section with Top Destinations. Right now we are featuring Top Destinations 2013 and Top Ski Destination. We would like to change this section frequently and we are open to your ideas for future top places around the world, for example:

  • Top Beaches
  • Top Hiking Places

What are your ideas? Please let us know. Thank you! IBAlex 13:10, 18 January 2013 (EST)

Default image sizes in Thumbnails

Currently, all unregistered users (and those logged-on, registered users that have not bothered to change their preferences at

  • My Preferences > Appearance > Thumbnail size

from the default)
view thumbnails at the (relatively small) default width of 180px

Since this default was set 10 years ago, connection speeds have typically increased (and prices reduced) worldwide.

I would, therefore, like to suggest that the default size be modestly increased to 250px and the pick selection be changed from:

$wgThumbLimits = array(


$wgThumbLimits = array(

The relevant variable in LocalSettings.php on the server in which to set this range of thumbnail size options is, I think, $wgThumbLimits. (And see also in the Manual's FAQ, How do I change default user preferences and $wgDefaultUserOptions].)

Does anyone disagree and, if so, why? --118dot93dot73dot30 01:10, 15 March 2013 (EDT) 19:10, 28 February 2013 (EST)

Grrrrrrreat - it seems everyone is either asleep or in full agreement with the above proposal.
IBadmins: please would you indicate how long it will take to make this change? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:18, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Currently we are working on upgrading the website and we are using fully our IT resources. The upgrade is the priority. Once we accomplish that I can assure you that we will resolve the issue with "Default image sizes in Thumbnails". Thank you for your understanding! Warm regards, IBAlex 21:08, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
That's terrific news! Can you indicate what sort of "upgrading" we can expect - or is it all top secret?
I'll ask you again in a couple of weeks if you're not able to give an indication now. Thanks! --118dot93dot73dot30 11:20, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Well, our upgrade was completed several weeks ago and more than 5 weeks have gone by, so I'll ask you again: will you implement this enhancement to our user experience now and, if not, why not, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 20:28, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

Template:Panorama now seems to work

- but use it sparingly until we sort out the image defaults above. (There may be a case for having just a tiny thumbnail on the main article pages with a link to a subpage of the main article containing any panorama images to save hassles for roaming mobile users and those on other slow/expensive connections)... --118dot93dot73dot30 19:21, 7 March 2013 (EST)

What image defaults would you suggest? I checked Milford Sound page and the image is too wide. Would love to fix it together with you. Cheers! IBAlex 20:07, 8 March 2013 (EST)
I've suggested them in the section immediately above this one.
When you say "too wide", what do you mean exactly, please? Do you mean that there is no slider visible below the image window or that the image window does not size itself according to the page width or that the image window overflows the left or right hand gutters? If any of these, could you specify your operating system and browser versions and whether you have right hand advertising switched on or off in your user preferences, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 22:13, 8 March 2013 (EST)
Thanks for replying. I meant that the image window does not size itself according to the page width. I tried to edit the Milford Sound page and when I changed the parameters to 900px, it looked better. I understood that above you were suggesting the default image sizes in thumbnails, not panoramic images, is that right?
I am using Windows 7, Mozilla Firefox and I have the ads turned on. Thank you! Warm regards, IBAlex 14:15, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
How bizarre! Can you upload screenshots, please?
What happens with Chrome or IE Explorer?
Yes, the sub-section above is not concerned with Panorama images. However, I may have to stop trying to improve the look and feel of your pages if the spam filters keep obstructing me. It is very important that a look and feel is developed which is attractive and easy to read for unregistered users and that also allows you to keep your current width of adverts (that you depend on for monetising this site) so that your technical support and development can be financed. --118dot93dot73dot30 19:00, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
BUMP: I know there have been some great changes in your life recently, User:IBalex, but please can you favour me with a response to my queries above so I can move on with re-coding if necessary? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:20, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
That's how the page displays on my screen
I have uploaded the picture to show you how the panorama picture displays on my computer. Right now I have to scroll to the right. Yes, I got the same results on the other browsers. I opt that we keep the panorama pic parameters in a way that it sizes itself according to the page width.
If you experience problems with Abuse Filters, please let me know. Thanks! IBAlex 21:04, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Screenshot of English Wikitravel's Milford Sound page showing the slider of the new Panorama templated view box on a narrow screen (note the usual "enlarge" widget at the lower right hand corner and the fact that the caption text has wrapped to a second line)

Unfortunately you have not taken a screenshot of your whole screen (and, more especially, your screen width), but I have a strong suspicion that you are using a relatively wide screen (or at least one wide enough to display the whole width of the wide panorama and, therefore, you have no slider to pan left or right. What happens when you reduce the width of your tab or window and do you have an "enlarge" widget visible at the bottom right?

Screenshot of same section of our Milford Sound page showing how the whole view box (when using the new Panorama template) expands to fit the whole width of the page on a wider screen (note the usual "enlarge" widget at the lower right hand corner)

I am enclosing two screen-grabs of how things look on typical laptops or notebooks (as opposed to wide, desk-top monitors). Please try reducing your tab/window width to a narrow width and report here what happens.

If you continue to have further problems, I will need full details such as screen size in pixels, and all your preference settings including what skin you are using and whether you have adverts and Orbitz switched on or off... --118dot93dot73dot30 04:09, 14 March 2013 (EDT)

Emergency phone numbers

I have made a start on adding the unified emergency phone number to the quickbar of about a dozen English speaking countries that have a unified common number but there are still a couple of hundred to go... --118dot93dot73dot30 04:59, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

For those who are interested in helping, this is an example of the type of edit that needs to be made (obviously the actual number or numbers will change between countries! --118dot93dot73dot30 17:49, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

Linking to Encyclopaedia Britannica articles

Because we want to develop our own travel related content here (and also because travellers may be reading a printed version or off-line), we do not link to secondary sources here on the web's most read travel guide.

However, we are not (and will never be) an encyclopaedia. We have a different aim and focus and a different tone. Our ability to use primary sources is one of the great strengths of our travel guide - nothing in Wikipedia is going to beat our ability to utilise the insights of people who have visited a destination recently - the conundrum comes in distinguishing which anecdotes we can rely on from those that are self-serving or mendacious and unfair.

I think we should consider giving our readers free access to any of Britannica's 120,000 articles directly from this web site with special types of in-line links.

IBadmins: You might want to ask your IT department to engineer special types of visually distinctive links brief instructions here, or we can just slightly change our policies so that when our readers click through the special type of in-line link to Britannica from our articles, he or she will be able to view the complete article—even those that normally require a subscription to read—as a free sample.

For example, to link to the Britannica Online article on Horatio Nelson, Viscount Nelson from our own Nelson (New Zealand) article, the Britannica article URL is

Our HTML code then might look something like <a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="">Viscount Horatio Nelson<img src="" border="0" width="14" hspace="3" vspace="2" /></a> and display a little like:

Whw thistle.jpg Viscount Horatio Nelson

(I've prepared a normal xl here without the logo in a version of our Nelson (New Zealand) article).

Note: This code will link users to the article on the publicly accessible Britannica site Readers that they recognize as members of a college or library that subscribes to Britannica will have the same experience as a paid subscriber to the public site with full access to the entire site in an advertising-free environment. Readers that are not members of a subscribing institution will still be able to access the full article, however additional content may be restricted and users may be served advertising.

Please note that, for readers that do not have access via a subscription, that the link will be to the full Britannica article only when the page holding the link is hosted on a Web Server. When you test this page on your local machine, it will still lead to the truncated version of the article. This is not an error, and when the same page is put on a Web Server it will still work as intended. --118dot93dot73dot30 17:10, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

Renovating our Listing format

One of the great things about this travel guide is how easy we have made it for casual editors to both wt:add a listing and then update it as information like opening hours or prices change.

However, currently businesses have a perverse double incentive not to use these great XML style listings, since that way they get to retain an obviously

and avoid that (baffling)

  • Non-clickable black name in bold without arrow symbol, 3 Example St, +65 1234 5678, [1]. But with footnote style, meaninglessly incrementing number doohickey right at the end .

Please could the IT department make it a top priority to change this style so that the name="?" tag field becomes BLUE anchor text with the clickable arrow symbol directly after it in an identical way to the non-XML style listings?

Please also remind them to implement HTML code similar to <a target="_blank" href="">Example Motel</a> in both styles so as to make the hyperlink open in a new window/tab so that a return to our great travel site is as easy and fast as just closing the spawned window or tab.

At the same time, they could activate the geographical co-ordinate information. --118dot93dot73dot30 02:00, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

BUMP: Well, IBadmins, you called for suggestions - what's your response? --W. Franke-mailtalk 03:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)


Is User:Tyen a bot ?

He/she/it never replies and seems to be able (Special:Contributions/Tyen) to make 12 boilerplate welcoming edits to 12 separate user pages inside 60 seconds!

Don't we have a policy that bots should be named and "owned" by a human being? Why can't I find any mention of this (eg: at Wikitravel:Bots) ? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:29, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

These are two genuine questions that I would really like simple answers for; presumably Yes and/or No.
It would also be nice to receive responses to the earlier issues. --118dot93dot73dot30 14:51, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
User:Tyen is not a bot. Cheers! IBAlex 15:10, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
I'm sorry but there is really no honest way to put this without seeing rather impolite. Do you really expect me to believe that He/she/it never bothers to reply to any query and yet seems to be able Special:Contributions/Tyen) to make 12 boilerplate welcoming edits to 12 separate user pages inside 60 seconds? I really am not that gullible. I would accept that there is a human being that has a limited grasp of English that operates a secret Bot of the same name (contrary to our currently stated policy) in a (normally) very useful manner, but please be honest now! --118dot93dot73dot30 21:44, 19 April 2013 (EDT)


I appear to have been accidentally blocked and can only edit by logging out. Can anyone help? I have edits I need to make to my user page. User:LtPowers

Also, my user page is protected, so I can't edit it. It still states that I'm an administrator. LtPowers 15:26, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
I'm sorry to hear about these difficulties.
I can't think of a better place to publicly leave a message like this. However, you might try leaving a message on their user talk pages to either User:IBobi or User:IBAlex or both; I know they are both active IBadmins here, just in case it's slipped their attention.
Have you notified your resignation at Wikitravel:Administrator nominations ?
(Later) Good news! I see that your are no longer listed as an administrator here: and User:IBobi seems to have already made the necessary adjustment to your user page. Is your complaint that you can not edit your User talk page? I assume that you are able to edit in other namespaces (since you seem to able to edit in the "Wikitravel" and main article namespaces)? --118dot93dot73dot30 16:38, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Ugh, I forgot what it was I wanted to change! No, actually, I wanted to remove the Docent information on my user page, but with it protected I cannot. I did not resign my adminship, it was removed. Contrary to policy, I believe, but I never did get an answer on that one. LtPowers 16:53, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Mmmm, looking briefly at some edit histories, I have a strong suspicion that this is something you will need to take up directly with User:IBobi who was the original blocking/protecting IBadmin. For what it's worth, I do agree that it is not appropriate for you to be listed as a Docent when you are unwilling to undertake that job. Looking on the bright side, I see from your User talk page that you have not been troubled with too many requests that you have needed to decline recently.
Since it seems the original problem is now obsolete (and the continuing problem with not being able to edit your own User page is probably better resolved directly with User:IBobi) would you have any objection to my now archiving this topic as having been dealt with? --118dot93dot73dot30 17:09, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Great news! User:IBAlex is on the job and has now edited your user page appropriately. --118dot93dot73dot30 17:12, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Why wasn't the user simply allowed to edit their own user and user talk page? Doesn't that ever cross your mind as a simple solution? —The preceding comment was added by (talkcontribs) at 02:09, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikitravel upgrade - read-only mode for a few days beginning Tuesday, 26 March 2013

Hello all, We're excited to announce that Wikitravel will be upgrading its software next week. In order to migrate Wikitravel's extraordinary database of travel information, we'll be putting the site into read-only mode starting Tuesday, 26 Mar 2013 (PST) and running for about three days. No edits will be possible at this time. When we come back, we'll be better than ever. Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns, --IBobi 17:36, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

Fantastic news!
Will you be able to attend to some of the topics that need an answer further up this Pub page, or will they have to wait a while longer, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 17:41, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Hi, I would like to know which local time you based on. Monday 3/25/2013 of UTC? Or EST or PST? Also, I want to know the approximate starting time.
Since I want to notice ja: wikitravelers the correct information as well as possible, your corporation is very much appreciated.--Shoestring 21:47, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
An excellent point, Shoestring!
Perhaps the upgrade would be a suitable time to change the signature timestamps from the historical and East Coast of the US-centric EDT and EST over to UTC so that they match those in the edit summaries, histories, and everywhere else? After all most of the world is probably a bit confused by the East Coast's Summer times, and UTC (or "Zulu" time) is what the US military and scientific community use. (Please note that I have manually edited my timestamp to this message so that it is UTC (known by many Americans as Greenwich Mean Time or GMT) --118dot93dot73dot30 02:25, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Dear Wikitravelers! The upgrade is planned to start Tuesday afternoon PST. Thank you for your cooperation! IBAlex 23:27, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Dear community! The upgrade was finished successfully! Please feel free to plunge forward and contribute to the articles! Thank you! IBAlex (talk) 20:39, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
Where can we read about the changes that were made, please? -- 10:11, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
What a pity that the opportunity was not taken to change the signature timestamps over to UTC so that they match those in the edit summaries, histories, and everywhere else! After all most of the world is probably a bit confused by the East Coast's Summer times, and UTC (or "Zulu" time) is what the US military and scientific community use. --118dot93dot73dot30 10:15, 29 March 2013 (EDT), that's a very good question! Please see here. IBAlex (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2013 (EDT)

Changing the title of a page

Earlier today, this guy Gold Membership Only changed the title of my itinerary "Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus" to "LOL U NOOBS". I saw that he actually did a LOT of vandalism today and that his account got deleted and he is now banned until the year 9999. But, how do I change the title of my itinerary back?Travelgeek (talk) 12:55, 7 April 2013 (EDT)

Hi Travelgeek! All is taken care of now. The title of the page is again Alexandria to Cape train and bus. We are truly sorry for the what happened. Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
I hope you don't mind but I have moved this page back to what was its original title: "Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus"
Incidentally, while trying to counter similar damage to our Rome article I encountered the difficulty that I do not have sufficient privileges to delete a vandal's newly created nonsense page. I think you know me well enough by now to know that I have the traveller's interests at heart, so would you flip the relevant bit for my account, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 20:12, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
118, thanks for moving the page to Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus. Your help is very appreciated. Thank you! Which newly created vandal pages do you have in mind? I thought I deleted all of them today. Regards, IBAlex (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
I think you got most of the main namespace pages. However, since we are usually in different time zones, there will be times when I can catch things quicker - especially all those spam user pages created just for self-promotional purposes: --118dot93dot73dot30 20:33, 8 April 2013 (EDT)


Previously I've been told that Tyen is not a bot. However I can get no reply from him/her/it and now is mistakenly blocking IPs.

Additionally, I find Tyen's substitution of the signature of an IBadmin misleading and a breach of UUTP

In case this user continues to be uncommunicative, what is the current procedure for revoking admin privileges, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 21:05, 11 April 2013 (EDT)

Interesting. Not only does this delinquent Sysop refuse to respond or reply to questions or remove blocks made in error but he/she/it has now been promoted to have check user rights. I'm on the verge of reverting this edit (especially as there has been no response to my query at Wikitravel talk:Administrator nominations#Clarification needed) unless someone from the Sysop cadre starts communicating. --118dot93dot73dot30 20:37, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

Wikitravel:Administrator nominations

There are some tasks that ordinary editors, however knowledgeable, cannot accomplish - such as delete pages, restore deleted pages, mark certain pages that vandal targets as protected,block and unblocking IP addresses and problematic users.

IBadmins do a great job of combating vandalism and spam, but even they have to sleep sometime. I think we need a few more active admins!

Please make your support known for the new candidates here --118dot93dot73dot30 09:02, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Looking for people to help categorize articles

We are now in the process of categorizing all WikiTravel articles, and a lot has been done already. This is being done enable and provide another method for those traveling to or otherwise reading about a particular destination to be able to access related articles easily.

Anyone can help. If you want to help, start out by working on articles related to places around where you live, have traveled to, or otherwise have interest in.

To add a category to a page, simply add "[[Category: Categoryname]]" at or near the bottom of the page. For those of you familiar with Wikipedia, it is done just the same way as on Wikipedia.

Articles on places should be in categories on the next higher jurisdiction or region. For example, U.S. cities and towns should be in categories bearing the name of the county they are in. Counties should be in the category of the state they are in. For each country, the system of divisions varies, so pay attention to how that country is divided. You can use the Wikipedia article on the same place as a guide to know about the place.

Attractions should be placed in a category called "Attractions in [country].” In large countries, there should be subcategories for attractions in divisions within that county (US states, for example). Ditto for itineraries.

Travel topics should be placed in special categories for that purpose. There are already a lot of categories for travel topics (see Category:Travel topics). More such categories can be created as needed.

Categories should NOT be created if they will in no way aid travelers. Examples are "Incorporated cities" or "Former communist countries."

This is a large job to do. So we can get it accomplished with individuals doing it little by little. Even if you can categorize just a few articles, that is extremely helpful. It'll all add up.

Mousy mouse (talk) 22:14, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

Before we rush pell-mell into the uglification of the foot of all our articles for no good reason, I'd like to see the clear schema that's proposed - otherwise it's going to be a hell of a job to delete all those badly spelled and geographically illiterate and redundant categories that well-meaning people may create. I really don't think you've thought this through or even read Wikitravel_talk:Categories.
Also, technically until Wikitravel:Categories is changed by consensus, what you're doing is flat against our current policies.
Please note that I am not suggesting that we should not consider changing our existing policies - just that I would like to see a considered and patient discussion - although I do appreciate you may not have the time for one at the moment... --118dot93dot73dot30 06:16, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
For one thing, whether the footers are "ugly" is a matter of personal opinion. In my opinion, it makes the page look more complete with a footer. I have spent many years editing Wikipedia, where a page with a footer left out looks more amateur. The purpose of the WT is to provide useful information to travelers (which should be easy to navigate), not vanity.
Spelling is an issue that does not just affect categories. It affects articles too. And like anything else on a Wiki, it is something that needs to be corrected when discovered. It is not a reason not to have them at all.
The very reason I have made a request for administratorship is to be able to correct categories I have misspelled by mistake due to a typo or something like that.
The reason why I have decided to plunge forward and make the categories now rather than waiting is because it could take years to get a consensus on this while it remains a divided issue, and if one day, a consensus is reached to have them, it would be nice if at least some of this huge job is already done. Mousy mouse (talk) 20:10, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
So you believe that a firm and long-standing consensus to have breadcrumb trails at the top of articles rather than geographical hierarchy categories at the bottom of destination pages can be ignored rather than you make an attempt to persuade the doubters by force of reason?
Could you at least make them hidden until the rest of us think it's a good idea?
I do think there is a good case for some categories (eg: downhill ski resort or whale watching venue) but that's another story that needs a case making for it at Wikitravel_talk:Categories...
PS: As far as I know, any autoconfirmed editor like yourself can use the "Move" tab to re-name a category or article. I don't think you need administrative privileges for that. Later. I'm wrong. It seems admin privileges are needed to move a category on this website. However, that only strengthens my argument that geographical categories should not be created willy-nilly without a prior plan or schema that enjoys broad support.
PPS: You do need admin privileges to delete categories and it would help me make up my mind whether to support or oppose your candidature if you would find the time to remove your writings from slap bang in the middle of my questions at Wikitravel:Administrator_nominations#User:Mousy_mouse. The usual format is to reply to questions underneath and sign your answers rather than put them above my signature! --118dot93dot73dot30 01:44, 1 May 2013 (EDT)
Just so you know, the insertion of my text was not intention, and I had no intent on doing anything disrespectful in the process. It's just that I edit most of the time on an iPhone, and the text is very tiny, so it's possible to mistakenly insert things in the wrong place. Please accept my apologies. Mousy mouse (talk) 20:49, 1 May 2013 (EDT)
I rarely jump to impugn someone's motives, so I just assumed that you were unfamiliar with discussion page etiquette or ignorant as to the correct formatting. Now that you've explained your problem I will make an exception and remove your text to an appropriate position so that my words are restored. I'll also number my original questions so that answering them individually should be easier.

I don't get what benefit categories will give us. If we are going to introduce them, then I think that we need to agree on each category before it is used. Otherwise I will create a category of Ski Resort and use it on some articles in Europe, somebody else will create Winter Resort and use in articles in Canada. We need to agree that a particular feature is worth categorising and then what the criteria is - e.g. does a city with a small dry ski slope get the Ski Slope Category or must it have three runs and snow for four months.AlasdairW (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

I think there is an argument for introducing them for travel topics - although even here we can still make use of our breadcrumb trails for some related topics - but I do so agree there should be prior discussion, AlasdairW!
Since, unlike other wiki pages, it is not possible to rename (move) a category it's even more important that our categorisation structure and policy is carefully thought out. (If mistakes are made it will be necessary to create a new category and change the Category tag on every page. The new category will not have the older category's page history, which is undesirable if there are many revisions.) --118dot93dot73dot30 20:18, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Salem's Lot 5

automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed, my remedial action in trying to combat vandalism and reverse this series of edits to France. Not very smart, eh? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:18, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Reverted! Thank you, IBAlex (talk) 20:01, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
The whole point of a wiki is that most people can edit it.
I can't help but feel that in this case it would be better to develop a hierarchy of user privileges so that non-casual users such as myself (with thousands of bona fide edits) can correct this type of vandalism.
In this case the "cure" is worse than the disease. --118dot93dot73dot30 21:13, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Misguiding Edits

Hi there,

I know this is kind of against the sense of Wiki to complain about, but here goes;

I'm a local citizen of Turkey, and there has been protest going on since May 31st, 2013. Articles such as,




were put a warning for travellers since the first day of the events to prevent any inconvenience that may be done. Since I'm a local, I've had my eyes and ears on this very topic.

To cut this short, most of the protesters have abandoned the streets, police forces were taken back by the governorships of the cities. Streets are empty (as in normal state) in the day time and is totally safe. Unfortunately, some other uninformed editor folks has been editing these pages obstinately back to the last week's that includes old "Warnings". I'm grown tired of correcting them over and adding back the news. If you check the last edits done, you'll well understand my point. Taking this into the discussion page seems like a lost cause.

Finally, is there anything we can do to prevent these folks to edit the atleast the Warning box as it causes misguidance to people who may wish to travel into Turkey and is in my book important?

Thanks in advance, please be kind and reasonable.

Vaki (talk) 18:28, 9 June 2013 (EDT)

Vaki, thank you for leaving this message! Being a part of a wiki means that from time to time we see [Wikitravel:Edit war| edit wars] within the pages. I have just checked the History of edits on Turkey, Istanbul and Ankara, and i see that your edits are being reverted by IP addresses. I suggest you contact those IP addresses on their Talk Pages and use the talk page for the article to come to a consensus. please, explain your position, and explain why you made the change. If the IP addresses fail to respond and keep of engaging in edit war, I will consider temporary protecting the page from further edits. In a meantime, I keep an eye on all of the articles you mentioned above so I will know where to take the right action. Again, thank you for bringing that up and for your cooperation. Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 14:04, 10 June 2013 (EDT)

Pages for Single Locations

Hi, I wasn't sure where to bring this up so I guess I figured right here on the main page. I was wondering if it was okay to make pages for individual locations within cities themselves. For example, pages for specific museums, parks, restaurants, hotels, etc. (things that are notable enough to be mentioned on the city's page itself).

The main page does say that this is a project for a "complete travel guide" and I feel that is lacking when there is not detailed information on specific things to do within each city. For example, I was in Tallinn 2 years ago and today I decided to look over the Tallinn page on here to see if there was anything I could add. I got to the "See" section and it's a very uninformative brief description for everything there is to do. The Museum of Occupation simply has an address and a very brief sentence that vaguely explains what is there. I found the museum to be very interesting and I could write a much longer description and include some pictures on a page that was solely about the museum itself.

But I just wanted to see if it was okay to make such pages. I don't want to do all this work to create them and then have them be deleted. Will check back soon. Cheers. ZeekLTK (talk) 10:01, 13 June 2013 (EDT)

Thank you for your question! For the future, please write all the questions here in the Travellers' Pub and one of the admins will get back to you. : Individual attractions should not have their own articles (in general). Their information should be listed in the city or possibly district that they're in. With a few very rare exceptions there should not be articles about museums, city parks, hotels, restaurants, etc. You can read more here. It's all with the purpose to keep Wikitravel organized and consistent. Please add more information to Tallinn page about the Museum of Occupation- description, pictures, information relevant to the traveler. We will be delighted to see your edits! Let me know if you have more questions. I am here to help! Cheers! IBAlex (talk) 13:09, 13 June 2013 (EDT)
Hi, thanks for moving my question. Sorry, I didn't know where to put it. However, I think this policy should be revised. How can this site be the "most complete" travel guide if there is only limited information on the majority of what traveling is about - the individual locations within the cities? I know that even when I have used this site in the past, I always find that there is hardly any info about the individual things to do at each location, so I end up just looking for more specific information elsewhere. I think you are losing a lot of potential users by not allowing more specific pages to be created. These are not opinion pages either, each page is a specific destination that has facts that cannot be disputed. Museums, for example - this could be a great place to put tons of pictures of things that you will actually see in the museums as well as specifically describe both the overall theme as well as individual exhibits. You just cannot provide anywhere near that in-dept information in a small blurb about the museum on a city's page, and therefore people leave this site and go somewhere else when trying to find that. I really think you should reconsider to keep those people here, and make this a place where you can find EVERYTHING without needing to go elsewhere to supplement it. 23:15, 14 June 2013 (EDT::
That was me, Zeek. Apparently I was logged off. ZeekLTK (talk) 23:15, 14 June 2013 (EDT)
Hello Zeek! Thank you for sharing your opinion with us. Please understand that when you add an entry about a museum/ restaurant/ hotel to Wikitravel, you should try to keep the information concise and avoid long listings. Not every WikiTraveler is interested in all the listings we have within the article. When somebody wants to get more information about a particular entry, he/she should click on the official link to the attraction/hotel/restaurant website we provide in the listing. Articles should not be so long that they're impossible to read, print, or use and should not include everything as you mentioned above. I hope that you understand that. That are the policies that we have built together with the community and that are working here already for 10 years.
Nevertheless, please plunge forward and add information to articles and listings you are familiar with. Many of them actually need more content and we would be delighted to see your contributions here. If you need some help with that, please let me know. Cheers! IBAlex (talk) 20:23, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

The Difference Between "To Do" and "To See"

Hi! I'm editing a Wikitravel page for my first time and I was hoping someone could answer my question. What is the real difference between "To Do" and "To See", or is it really just up to the writer to decide? Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks! Alexabac (talk) 11:24, 16 June 2013 (EDT)

Hi Alexabac! That's a very good question, I'm happy you asked it. Section See is used in any destination article and is required in all cases. May be combined with section "Do" if making a distinction between attractions and activities is difficult or unnecessary (as with amusement parks or very small destinations). Section See is for attractions in the area. Attractions are passive by nature, involving things that are more-or-less permanently available for viewing. Galleries and museums, zoos, parks, and landmarks are examples. Scenery and observation towers also fall under "See". Section Do however, is optional and lists activities in the area. Activities are usually active by nature, plus scheduled events. Sports (both participatory and spectator), casinos, theaters, and tours are examples. Recreational activities like hiking, boating, or skiing also fall under "Do". For more information please look at this page. Also, this page can be very useful. I hope it all helps. We are happy to have a new contributor here on Wikitravel! Let me know if you have more questions, I'm happy to help! Cheers! IBAlex (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2013 (EDT)

Uploading Picture ("Own Work")

Hello. I uploaded several photos (made by me personally) to Wikimedia Commons and then inserted them into the page of the country i was editing on Wikitravel. I was using the button on Wikimedia Commons page "use this file on wiki" as there was somewhere here some sentence that there is an agreement between Wikitravel and Wikicommons, and images from the Wikimedia Commons can be used on Wikitravel (or so, i'm quoting from memory). So my links of the photos on Wikitravel page are not (double brackets)image: blah-blah-blah...(double brackets) but (double brackets)File: blah-blah-blah..(double brackets). So i received an "order" to delete them and i deleted other pictures (not made by me) but left "my own work" so far but i don't see how i could indicate that i allow them to use on Wikitravel. I mean some simple and proper way. If i need to get a permit from myself and such (or to upload them again to Wikitravel Shared) then it would be good to know that as i either didn't find a simple explanation (or a needful part in some sophisticated explanation) about that, or this is not explained in enough primitive way :) . My question is what i should do in order to leave everything "as is" without much effort. Or there were wrong moves in the very beginning when i uploaded my photos on Wikimedia Commons? On Wikimedia Commons they are uploaded properly. --Local (talk) 07:25, 19 June 2013 (EDT)

Hey Local! That's a very good question! I am glad you asked it. You are right, images from the Wikimedia Commons are often usable on Wikitravel because of the same license. However we would like you to upload the pictures also to Wikitravel Shared as this is our central coordination point and shared repository for images and other media for all language versions of Wikitravel. We like to have them on Shared so that users from other language versions of Wikitravel can use them as well. We know that many users that want to improve other language versions turn directly to Wikitarvel Shared. That is why your pictures could be appreciated by a larger public if you upload them both to Wikimedia Commons and Wikitravel Shared. Do you think you could do that? Thank you so much! Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 19:56, 19 June 2013 (EDT)
Thanks. So i removed them. They are country specific and illustrate "narrow aspects", so to speak, (but all descriptions are in English) so users from other language versions certainly won't want to use them, but if they decide to they always can upload them from Wikimedia Commons :) . --Local (talk) 03:08, 20 June 2013 (EDT)

10 years of WT

WT is celebrating this year its 10 anniversary. According to the revision history of main page Evan created the Main Page on July 24th 2003 (presumably the first page), which means exactly ten years ago after a couple of weeks. what is plan so far here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: (talkcontribs) at 19:08, 7 July 2013 UTC

It looks like the Main Page was the second page created, as Evan created his user page first (01:37 24 July 2003). This Travellers' Pub was also created on 24 July 2003 at 23:58. AlasdairW (talk) 18:04, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
We'd love to help the community observe this huge milestone! We're only a few months younger than Wikipedia! How should we do it?--IBobi (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2013 (EDT)
Agree to implement the changes that have already been suggested above?
This would send a clear message that feedback is actually read.
It would be really lovely to read an announcement here that Internet Brands had decided to spend some money on their cash cow at long last and allocate the technical resources to actually implement the changes suggested on this same page above:
--W. Franke-mailtalk 05:49, 11 July 2013 (EDT)That would be quite a lot of celebratory bang for relatively few bucks.

Wikitravel New Home Page- 11 July 2013 11AM PST

We are excited to announce the launch of our new home page, with links to a lot of the most popular Wikitravel articles. Let us know what you think! We hope you like it. Best wishes, IBAlex (talk) 17:05, 10 July 2013 (EDT)

Nice work, Alex!
It would be great to make the switch to using UTC time stamps - it's not called "Universal" for nothing and now that the owners of this site don't live on the East Coast of the US, it seems a bit anomalous (and even US-centric) to have every post on discussion pages still stamped "EST". Most people know (or can usually calculate) their offset from UTC, but the same is not true of Eastern Standard Time. --W. Franke-mailtalk 05:54, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
Oh, I forgot. It gets worse. Maine is now on Eastern Daylight (Savings) Time (EDT) so we now have to calculate another hour's offset. Very useful for all those in the tropics! (Not that I have that problem here in sunny Glasgow. --W. Franke-mailtalk 08:45, 11 July 2013 (EDT)