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Revision as of 15:09, 10 November 2018 by SelfieCity (talk | contribs) (Business Listings: How Much is too Much?)
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The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

You can find Archived discussions here: Travellers´pub Archives.

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

Business Listings: How Much is too Much?

Earlier today, a bus company that operates New Zealand's largest passenger transport network with daily services from Auckland to many towns and cities in the Waikato region made an account, and proceeded to add their listing to a WHOLE BUNCH of pages, which looked like spam from my end. Should we allow companies to add their listings to more than a certain number of pages? Yes? No? If we do, what could be the ramifications? What could potential questions, comments, and or snide remarks could arise? -- —The preceding comment was added by Tonikar (talkcontribs)

Good question. But I think their listing should only be added to the city where their headquarters is located (and maybe to small cities and towns where they are the only choice to get into). Just imagine if we allow this bus operator to add all its lines to Wikitravel articles, we will soon see chain restaurants, hotels, and other business add listings to all places where they operate (actually, we've seen quite a few cases like this before), which will soon turn Wikitravel to a yellow page. Plus our policy about touting is pretty clear about this: ...businesses should be listed in only one article for the town or district in which the business operates... . --Binbin (talk) 04:21, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
I agree with Binbin, we'd better stick to our touting policy. The risk of having chains adding their listings everywhere is too high (and we're not the Yellow Pages, aren't we?). GiulioC (talk) 05:24, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
If you are in New Zealand without a car, it is likely that you will use Intercity to get around. I think that there is only one other operator (Naked Bus) with a smaller national network and some regional operators (Atomic etc) and for a few destinations trains. So I think that it is fine to mention them in the get in section. However we don't need the full details about WiFi etc in every article. I would prefer that some information was added about the services to a particular destination - e.g. "X has two coaches per day from Auckland via Hamilton and one from Wellington via Napier. Coaches stop outside the post office." AlasdairW (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
AlasdairW, and Binbin bring up good points. This could be a slippery slope, but on this one occasion since they are one of the few transportation services listed on our site in some areas it seems relevant and helpful. Would it be okay if they specified amenities for travelers per each location? Tonikar (talk) 9:27, 17 March 2017 (PST)
I agree that we should stick with our policy, have the business listed once, probably best the country article, and there list some specific amenities if that adds value. In our external links policy it says clearly what not to list to, so if we make an exception for one business, soon more will follow. Adzas (talk) 12:40, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
Would it be good to review our policy, and add an addendum for the amount of posts that a company has added/ can add? Also, should we be reviewing these on a case by case basis; especially if we think it could be helpful for the traveler? Like AlasdairW, had said that it is likely you will come across this company's transportation system in NZ if travelling without a car... Tonikar (talk) 1:42, 17 March 2017 (PST)
I'm torn on this one too. First, I love Alasdair's point that a business should take the time, if they are going to try this, to make EACH listing specifically relevant to that page. If they don't want to take the time to point out the relevancy of their business to that particular destination (and they ought to be encouraged by us to do so), they should not have the privilege of being listed here.

Second, I am at a loss to find something wrong with listing a business on multiple pages, if those pages do not contain any (or a very small number) similar options. In this case, if you are considering traveling to a small town in NZ that is only served by this bus company, we ought to provide details as to how to catch a bus into/out of there if we have them. What is the harm? Now, if this is, say, New York City, where there are interminable bus and other transportation options for getting in and out, I would say that allowing companies to list all of them would be disastrous for Wikitravel, and of limited to zero use for the traveler. And don't even get me started on chain restaurants!

So perhaps there is a middle ground? Where there are many existing options, disallow the listing; where there are none or very few, allow them; and when allowed, the listing must be customized to that destination. And when we see a company engaging in this behavior, we ought to make contact with them as soon as possible, guide them, and have them provide a proposed list of everywhere they are intending to add their listing, as well as the specifics of how they will customize their listing to the page, BEFORE they spam it out everywhere publicly. How's that sound? IBobi (talk) 19:29, 22 March 2017 (EDT)

I agree. In principle, listing on multiple pages is not allowed , except where similar choices are limited and/or there're none or only a few similar listings (we do have this "something is better than nothing" policy). Yes, a prior communication with the companies who want to put their listings on multiple page sounds even better so that on one hand they can do it properly with our help, on the other we can kind of make sure things don't go out of control. I think we can start with this bus operator in NZ. What do you guys think? --Binbin (talk) 01:40, 23 March 2017 (EDT)
Just curious if this is the issue which led to postings about my businesses Izu Hike and Fuji Bike Tour being anonymously removed with no comments on the talk pages of any of the locations where I added the postings. I did customize the posts to be appropriate to the locations where I posted. I'm a sole proprietor who offers biking and hiking tours in numerous little towns in Izu and the Fuji Five Lakes areas. The pages for the Izu cities don't have any info on hiking tours so it made sense to me to provide info on the tours my business offers on each city's page. If I didn't do that, how would someone who visits one of those cities' pages know they could go for a guided hike? I think your readers will miss out on a lot of relevant info if postings can only be made on one general page for a country or region rather than on multiple specific location pages. People who want to hike in Matsuzaki or Ito or Shimoda are not going to go to a page on Japan looking for hiking info about those little towns. In any case, whatever you decide, it'd be nice to get the benefit of the doubt that a person with good intentions might be behind posts and provide info in the talk pages about why posts were deleted, if you're not already doing that consistently. I took the time to make several posts and all were deleted without any info in the talk pages about why. Not sure if that was you admin folks or someone else. Thanks for your attention to this question. Elforestero (talk) 20:59, 18 September 2018 (EDT)Elforestero
Hey Elforestero! Thanks for reaching out in the pub. Not sure what happened as I've only been on Wiktiravel for a few months but I think it depends. We get a lot of hiking and bike our listings to the point where it gets too much and starts to saturate the content. Because of that, we naturally just take it down as it starts to appear "ad-like" or "spammy". If there's something extremely unique about your tour of if there is no other tour listed, I think it'll be fine to post. But in addition to adhering to our touting policy, we do ask you to keep the posting to a minimum (i.e. posting it on select pages that make absolute sense) and write the post in an original way where it's not word for word from your other marketing materials that can also be found online. Hope this better answers your question IB hill (talk) 10:23, 19 September 2018 (EDT)
Transportation seems to always get the short end of the stick when it comes to listings on Wikitravel. Preference seems to given to the privately owned bus company Greyhound, and all other ground transport options are removed. Get in and Get Around information is mostly limited to general statements with no real helpful information. Back in 2005/2006, transportation companies (other than Greyhound) were removed from Get In section and placed in the Get Around section. Unless it was a local taxi company, this never made much sense. Then recently, many transportation companies, especially ones with recent updates/edits, have been completely removed. Some location pages, such as Atlantic City, have transportation companies listed in the See and Do sections which makes even less sense. I don't understand why there is a bias against privately owned transportation services (other than Greyhound), but a preference for privately owned restaurants, hotels and bars. I also don't understand why this extreme editing seems to be focused on transportation, there are literally dozens of errors on some location pages, but the only edit made to the page is the removal of a transportation company, without any other edits to fix spelling, bad grammar, dead links and so on. The name of the website is Wikitravel, it's pretty hard to travel without transportation. I agree that Wikitravel doesn't want to be a Yellowpages, but since trying to search for transportation on a search engine now brings up nationwide transport booking services for transportation, and not local companies, you would think that it would be a benefit to users to find a local company on Wikitravel and not use third party contractors listed on Google. Even in a heavily populated area like New Jersey, there are some areas, especially in the south, that are only serviced by a handful of companies. Not allowing transportation services (other than Greyhound) to list on multiple locations defies logic. It seems editors would rather have no transportation options listed on a location page than let a company list in multiple locations, which is the case for most location pages. It's gotten to the point that Wikitravel should just let Uber sponsor the Get In and Get Around section of every location page. Other than large and popular cities, there seems to be little to no information on many location pages, which means that our fellow editors/contributors spend way more time editing or removing other peoples additions than actually adding any content. Just taking a quick look at towns in NJ and PA, there are many dozens of location pages with no Get In or Get Around information as well as very little information at all. Wikitravel has been around for too many years to have so little travel information. It's a shame that the main focus of Wikitravel has devolved into page monitors and not page creators. I have a sneaking suspicion that the majority of Wikitravel's website visitors are editors and not people actually looking for travel information. —The preceding comment was added by Airport Chariot Car Service and Limo (talkcontribs)
Thanks for your input and you questioning this on my talk page as well. I think above answers the questions. It is not that we just focus on transportation listings, but yesterday I removed many of your added listings, as they were all pretty much identical, also offering some tour options, this very much looked like pure advertising, which is against our guidelines. As I mentioned in the welcome message I sent you, adding valuable information about the locations you are knowledgeable about adds much more value to our travellers (which you have been doing), this way you get exposure too. If your listing was only added to a few articles, where transportation options are limited, including the listing format, address, price range etc, I probably would have left it, but there were so many, that's what we want to avoid. I hope this helps. Like I said, your other edits have been very helpful, so we appreciate your input! Adzas (talk) 04:22, 10 November 2018 (EST)

Template:OutdentJust saying, this guy has been doing this fairly cross wiki. One of his accounts was already blocked on the basis of extreme touting. My guess is that this guy is a waste of time to argue with and that we should revert the great majority of their edits, and keep just a few of the most city relevant ones. Then if they edit war, you are on solid ground to block the user. -- Selfie City (talk) 10:05, 10 November 2018 (EST)

Map Based wikitravel


I wish to introduce a map based wikitravelish website

I'm an avid reader and planned all trips based on info here. A big thanks first! However, articles are organized by meaningless place names (it's the only choice though), and it's not straightforward to figure out which place is where. Thus, planning bigger trips involves going back and forth between here and Google Maps, taking a long time.

It may be better to organize info by map itself and attach it to the map as snippets which will appear or disappear based on zoom level. More info and links can be added as popups. So I made the aforementioned website. You can zoom in to Amherst, MA or NYC (worse option as not much info is added) to see how it works. By the way, the website doesn't seem to work on IE and renders a bit ugly on browsers released before March 2017

Asking for advice and opinions! If you would, edit it as well!

Hopefully this is the right place to do such introduction. No bad intention, just wish to make travel info presentation more intuitive and trip planning easier Wkenmomo (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

Sorry for such a late response! We appreciate your time spent on Wikitravel -- especially for adding edits to the Liaocheng page. We hope to see more thoughtful edits like the ones you have provided. Thanks for the info! --Tonikar (talk) 01:50, 06 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Wkenmomo! I finally got a chance to check out the website you had created, and I think its pretty cool! I like that it sums up exactly where I may want to travel if I want to shop, or find out more about American history! I was wondering -- and you kind of explained already-- but your purpose for creating a map that works as so? How would this help benefit Wikitravel users? Thanks! --Tonikar (talk) 012:39, 07 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Tonikar, sorry for the late reply. Why I create it is that I want a more direct way of accessing geo info. I used to read here, search on Google Map, write what it is about and save it in my maps to compare with others. A great hassle and Google maps aren't designed for this. My purpose is to make designing "optimized" trips easier and I really hope to plan my next trip to Canada intuitively and effortlessly. Do wikitravel need a dynamic map? Wikitravel is welcome to host this map and embed it to the right zoom and boundary. The map is itself editable.Wkenmomo (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
Tonikar, Wkenmomo I think it would be a great idea to include links to Wikimapia. I'm working on US Hwy 2 between Monroe and Stephens Pass. Here is an example of what you get for Skykomish_(Washington) [1]. We could actually provide links to WikiTravel on the WikiMapia page. Ideas? Kgrr (talk) 08:46, 9 July 2017 (EDT)
Hello there, Wkenmomo, is there any way to zoom in/out the map and natively move around the places not having to type the place's name each time? --Fordaemdur (talk) 10:29, 21 August 2018 (EDT)
Hey Fordaemdur! Just a heads up, the map I think you're referring was a suggestion and not an official project. I just checked the map though and I think you can zoom in and out by scrolling. I'm using a mouse to scroll in and out on a Windows desktop so not sure if it will work the same on a trackpad of a laptop. IB hill (talk) 10:28, 22 August 2018 (EDT)

Please make suggestions for WT homepage content

Hello! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for February by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Monday January 29th. We will announce the winning topics Tuesday the 30th. Thank you!Ncahill (talk) 14:11, 22 January 2018 (EST)

For Destination of the Month, what about Mexico, since the largest underwater cave was discovered there very recently? Interesting location for sure! Mexican cuisine is also nice. Adzas (talk) 09:42, 23 January 2018 (EST)
Maybe for "Off the Beaten Path" you could try Prachuap Khiri Khan in Thailand. This place is a paradise, and not at all expensive. Regrettably, more and more tourists are coming here, so go there before it becomes another Phuket or similar. Avemario (talk) 04:04, 24 January 2018 (EST)
I second Adzas idea of Mexico (and Mexican cuisine). Another option could be Venice (it's Carnival time). For OTBP you could try some small town/village around Europe (there are dozens of them). GiulioC (talk) 05:27, 26 January 2018 (EST)
Hey everyone, these are all great ideas! Still need suggestions for Language of the Month and Landmark of the Month. Shall I extend the voting until tomorrow the 31st?Ncahill (talk) 10:38, 30 January 2018 (EST)
I always vote for Mexican cuisine. For language, I would probably throw in Swahili. IBJoel (talk)IBJoel (talk) 11:08, 30 January 2018 (EST)
For Landmark of the month maybe we can do Mỹ Sơn in Vietnam, they're ruins of old Hindu Temples. IBThomas (talk) 12:31, 30 January 2018 (EST)
Hi everyone! Thank you for your wonderful suggestions this past week. Here are the winners for the home page content for February. Destination of the Month: Mexico, Off the Beaten Path: Prachuap Khiri Khan, Cuisine of the Month: Mexican, Language of the Month: Swahili, and Landmark of the Month: Mỹ Sơn. (Boy was Mexico popular!). We hope to make this a regular thing for the monthly home page content. An announcement will be made here on the Pub during the last week of the month asking for user's ideas on what the Wikitravel home page should feature. Thanks again to those who participated!Ncahill (talk) 11:39, 31 January 2018 (EST)
Great choices! Probably too late now, but since the Winter Olympics are taking place in Pyeongchang from Feb 9-25, maybe we should highlight this location too this month? Only just realised that this is happening this month. Adzas (talk) 07:53, 2 February 2018 (EST)

Bangkok Hotels

I just checked the "Bangkok" section of Wikitravel, and I saw in the "Hotels" section, a number of hotel listings. Mainly upmarket ones. I believe that these should have been placed in individual District articles, Also, they're somewhat touty. Should I remove them? Avemario (talk) 03:55, 24 January 2018 (EST)

Hello Avemario, you are correct, those listings should be moved to the respective district articles. If you feel a listing is pure advertising you can remove it, otherwise maybe adjust it a little if it is a good location to have mentioned. Just make sure you specify in the summary field of your edit what you are doing. Thanks as always! Adzas (talk) 04:46, 25 January 2018 (EST)
OK, will do. Just give me a couple of days as it is a holiday weekend here. Avemario (talk) 01:32, 26 January 2018 (EST)
OK, all sorted now. Avemario (talk) 02:20, 29 January 2018 (EST)
Thank you! Adzas (talk) 07:33, 4 February 2018 (EST)

Home Page Content Voting for March 2018

Hi All! We'd like Wikitravel users to help us decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for March by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, February 28th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, March 1st. Thank you!Ncahill (talk) 11:35, 20 February 2018 (EST)

Destination of the Month could be Florence, early spring is one of the best moments to visit the city (and as far as I can see it has never been chosen before). Off the Beaten Path: Ronda in Spain. We could choose Cuisine and Language of a specific region: after all many of our phrasebook pages have sections about ordering food and drink. What do you think? GiulioC (talk) 06:07, 23 February 2018 (EST)
I just got a message from someone about an Indonesian food delivery where I live, just looking at the pictures makes me hungry, for Cuisine I would suggest Indonesian! Off the Beaten Path Papua New Guinea? Destination of the Month I like Giulio´s suggestion Florence. Landmark of the Month the Abbey at Mont Saint Michel? Such a special place. Adzas (talk) 10:10, 23 February 2018 (EST)
Indonesian cuisine! Good suggestion! GiulioC (talk) 05:36, 24 February 2018 (EST)
Landmark of the Month: the Botanical Garden in Padua. It's the oldest in the world, established in 1545, recently renovated and (sadly) often overlooked. GiulioC (talk) 11:45, 26 February 2018 (EST)
I second the call for Indonesian cuisine! Or Pakistani, alternatively. IBJoel (talk) 11:43, 1 March 2018 (EST)
Need a tie breaker for OTBP and Landmark please!Ncahill (talk) 15:53, 1 March 2018 (EST)
Thank you all for the wonderful suggestions! Here are the winners: Destination of the Month, Florence, Off the Beaten Path, Ronda in Spain, Cuisine of the Month, Javanese/Indonesian, Language of the Month, Indonesian, and Landmark of the Month, Abbey at Mont Saint Michel. Agreed with OTBP and Landmark options? Ran out of time so I chose these. Thank you again for posting, be ready for wonderful suggestions for the April home page!Ncahill (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2018 (EST)

April 2018 suggestions for WT Homepage content!

A little bit to the game to this but each month the content of our homepage changes. We'd like Wikitravel users to help decide what should go on the Wikitravel homepage for April by offering ideas for 5 different categories: Destination of the Month, Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month. Please post your ideas on the Pub between today and Wednesday, April 4th. We will announce the winning topics on the Pub Thursday, April 5th. Thank you!

Botswana! IBobi (talk) 17:02, 3 April 2018 (EDT)
Ooh! That can be an interesting one. Anyone else have suggestions for Off the Beaten Path, Cuisine of the Month, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month?
What about Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic? Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in Greece as well, like Zakynthos. Why not Greek as the Language of the Month then, and the Corinth Canal as the Landmark of the Month? Keeping it all in one country, long time since I have been there but a lovely country to visit! Adzas (talk) 04:50, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
Botswana would be great! Also choosing a greek island for OTBP: Zakynthos is good but we may choose some other island (Ithaca?) GiulioC (talk) 11:12, 4 April 2018 (EDT)
Wow! Great suggestions, Adzas and GiulioC! I think having those spots from Greece as OTBP, Language of the Month, and Landmark of the Month are all lovely idea as some people may not have heard of them or never been... like me! IB hill (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
I was thinking a city in Japan though, like Nara (with the nice cherry season), but Botswana is a great pick too! Keeping it all in one country sounds like a very good idea. I like it. Greek cuisine for the Cuisine topic, Greek as the Language of the Month, Off the Beaten Path a nice hidden place in Greece. Good idea! I'm for it. --Binbin (talk) 04:01, 5 April 2018 (EDT)
I´ve seen pictures of these cherry blossoms in Japan, beautiful! Which months can that usually be seen, we can still use Nara next time? Beautiful! Adzas (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2018 (EDT)

Wikitravel Software Update Coming Next Week

Hello all Wikitravellers! This is one of your admins on Wikitravel. Just sending an update that our site will be expecting a upgrade sometime next week. Should anyone come across any issues, please e-mail [email protected](dot)org or message me on my talk page. IB hill (talk) 20:21, 6 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Vandalism on WT today

If you happen to see a strange looking page on WT today, please let us know. Don't be alarmed, it's just a vandal. Our Legal team are in the process of tracing the related IPs and will be alerting local law enforcement immediately. Thank you, IBobi (talk) 15:22, 10 April 2018 (EDT)

WT Software Upgrade Happening Now!

Hi everyone! Heads up that as of Wednesday, April 11th at 12:05pm PST, the site will be down and ready for upgrade! IB hill (talk) 15:05, 11 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Hi, IB hill,
Due to the software upgrade this time, we have some bugs on ja:WT. We can't display some of our pages correctly, with a internal error message instead. Here is an example:
[[email protected]] /ja/%E7%A5%AD%E3%82%84%E3%82%A4%E3%83%99%E3%83%B3%E3%83%88/4%E6%9C%88 Error from line 158 of /var/www/html/ Call to undefined method User::getSkin()
#0 /var/www/html/ BreadcrumbLinks(array, Title)
#1 /var/www/html/ setupBreadcrumb()
#2 /var/www/html/ require_once(string)
#3 /var/www/html/ require(string)
#4 {main}
This error seems to happen all the sub pages which contains slash mark ("/") on the title (Such as "Tokyo/Chiyoda").
In addition, I couldn't write on your talk page, because it is totally protected (That's why I wrote my message here) Shoestring (talk) 08:14, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Shoestring!
Thanks for bringing this to our attention! I'm sending a report for you right now. Apologies that you couldn't talk on my talk page (you should be able to now). Will be moving our messages over there. Please keep me posted with any other issues. I plan to check on the Japan page today to see if I come across anything and will talk to you there. Thanks again! IB hill (talk) 13:20, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
Oh and also if you can let me know what device and browser you're using. That'll be much appreciated! IB hill (talk) 13:25, 12 April 2018 (EDT)
It should be working now! Please let me know if there's anything else JA WT needs. Thanks for letting us know! IB hill (talk) 18:23, 12 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Traveller of the Month

I do note that the Traveller of the Month page is defective. I did try to post this on the edit page there, but it will not allow me. Although it is an old page, maybe you can either correct it or delete it. Obviously I would prefer the former, as I use it to prove to people that it is a totally credible website. Your call..................

Avemario (talk) 04:02, 14 April 2018 (EDT)

I might add that the Thai Phrasebook has a similar problem!

Avemario (talk) 08:08, 16 April 2018 (EDT)

Hi Avemario, thanks for letting us know! The Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario page can only be edited by admin, the page is protected. Is there anything you wanted to have changed? The Thai phrasebook seems ok to me, I can edit it, can you get in at all or just not save your edit? Adzas (talk) 11:02, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Wanted to introduce myself as one of the newer admins and jump in to this thread. Seems like Adzas beat me to answering your questions! Please let us know what you would like to correct or change for your Traveller of the Month September 2015 - Avemario page. I can also correct the Thai phrasebook as well. We also had a software upgrade last week and have been running QA. However, there may still be little bugs that pop out. If you notice anything, please feel free to reach out and let us know the issue + browser & operating system you're using! IB hill (talk) 12:00, 16 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Hillary, the banner on the Traveller of the month page is extending at the bottom to cover the text. Also, it is time we re-started the Traveller of the Month back up again -- and maybe rename it Wikitraveller of the month? IBobi (talk) 20:04, 16 April 2018 (EDT)
Thanx for your answers, both Adzas (who I know already), and IB hill.
I am using Firefox on a laptop computer.
The problem is that, with the "Traveller of the Month", the discussion start is up under the pic!
What I can read starts with "our gratitude by featuring them........"
With the Thai Phrasebook, everything can be read, but the writing is scrunched up against the pic.
I have checked a few other Thai Province websites, but they are normal.
So I leave it up to you to sort this out.
Avemario (talk) 06:28, 17 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey AveMario! Gotcha. I submitted a report for you just now and hopefully we will get that fixed for you quickly! IB hill (talk) 11:58, 17 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Pages Currently Under Evaluation

Heads up that as of 4/18/18, we're currently putting pages about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market, Wat Chan, and Dusun Glondok under evaluation as we're working on determining if it adheres to the site's policies and guidelines and style. If anyone has any thoughts or know anything about these sights and destinations, please reply down below here. Would love to make this a collaborative effort on Wikitravel! IB hill (talk) 19:27, 18 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Hi! The first two of these three appear to be Thai, but I cannot find them on Wikitravel! The third is in Indonesia and I can find it. Can you please give me more info about these above two? If they are Thai, I should be able to resolve it.Avemario (talk) 03:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
I can´t find the first two mentioned articles, but my first thought would be that a market should not have its own article. It can be described in the article of where it is located. Dusun Glondok I can´t find much information about online, it seems to be a little village? The writer of the article should specify where exactly it is and if there are any tourist attractions so more information can be added or rewritten. Adzas (talk) 09:48, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
update - I found the floating market info, on Tamonwan user page. I removed the first paragraph as this was copied from another website and I removed the external links for now. For the rest I would move the original info to a location article and then remove it from the user page. Adzas (talk) 09:57, 19 April 2018 (EDT)
Hello hello! I realized I left my computer without adding the pages. The Thai content about Khlong Lat Mayom Floating Market and Wat Chan are posted on Tamonwan user page and on Jeechnps user page. I'm curious to know what you guys think about the content and how we could better blend the info with the site. Seems like you're a Thai expert, Avemario! If you get the chance, maybe you can check it out? IB hill (talk) 11:55, 19 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
The Floating Market is in Thonburi in Bangkok,and is already listed there. I have updated the opening hours, but (personally) I do not ::::think that we need all the info that the Tamonwan page provides.
After all, do we need a travel website, or a multi page book for each destination?
I think that too much info on a place tends to be a distraction from the rest of the area. As it is, if someone wants to go there, if they ::::are in a hotel nearby, or go to a Travel Agent, they will get all the detailed stuff and can make their choice.
We do not need Wikitravel "overcrowded".
And the same with Wat Chan,which is a Buddhist Temple (Wat) in Ban Chan (Chan Town)
This is in Chiang Mai Province, some 150Km North West towards Pai (which is on Wikitravel).
Chiang Mai has many attractions, and we need again to be careful we do not make the attraction into a book!
It seems from what I can read online that this place has only one decent hotel, run by Karen (Christian refugees from Myanmar, so it is an ::::out of the way place to get involved in this culture. There is transport to here from Chiang Mai in yellow songteows apparently (2 bench ::::pickup trucks).
It seems that there are also minibuses from both Chiang Mai, and Pai.
I would be inclined to only put a short article on the Chiang Mai website, just describing what it is, that there is a hotel, and how to ::::get there.Avemario (talk) 06:41, 20 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Appreciate you taking the time to have a deeper look and thanks for adding the floating market in Thonburi on the Bangkok/Thonburi page. And completely agree with your suggestions. I'll have a look on their pages again and see what I can do. Thanks! IB hill (talk) 12:04, 20 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Above is very helpful, great as always Avemario! I do think it is important to find out why those users are adding all this info on their user pages. As mentioned, we have had school projects before, we used to let them work on their user pages as long as all that info is moved or removed in a short period of time, either to an existing article or a new article. If the users in question don´t communicate with us and the info is not according to our guidelines (either an article already exists or the info does not justify an article etc) we should move/remove it as soon as possible. As the Travellers Pub still does not seem to appear in Recent Changes, new users may not see our discussion, so we should check on their talk pages (the messages I left so far no reaction yet as far as I can see). Great though, I´ve learnt a lot about those locations in the past days, that´s what it is all about I think. Adzas (talk) 06:34, 21 April 2018 (EDT)

Nong Prue

I have noticed an article about this place in Kanchanaburi Province in Thailand. The information is minimal, and a VERY thorough check of the internet shows virtually no information at all worthy of tourists.Personally, I would delete the article.Avemario (talk) 06:53, 21 April 2018 (EDT)

And I just had a really serious look at it,and found virtually nothing at all on the internet, other that there is also a Nong Prue in Pattaya. :I still think it needs deleting - there is little info justifying moving it to the Kanchanaburi page.Avemario (talk) 07:59, 22 April 2018 (EDT)
And as much as I hate being the pain in the arse which I am - I just noticed an article on Jom Jang, which is in Nong Khai Province in ::Thailand.There is virtually no info in this article, which was added many years ago, and it is only a few Km from Nong Khai City.I think it ::should be deleted, and the info moved to the Nong Khai page.Avemario (talk) 06:18, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
And yet again......................... Ban Rong in Lamphang Province has absolutely no info about the place. So why not remove it Avemario (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Once more................ Ban Muang Kut is a place put in by advertisers who want to promote the place. Not wanted on Wikitravel.
The trip should be a place to go on the Chiang Mai page. Avemario (talk) 07:04, 23 April 2018 (EDT)
Hey Avemario! Thanks for bringing this up- truly appreciate your Thai knowledge! I will have a look over it and see if there's a place for all the articles you just mentioned. If anyone else has any suggestions, please post it here!IB hill (talk) 12:13, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
We always say that any location that can be visited by a traveller, no matter how remote, can be listed here. Jom Jang for example, maybe a small place but the article does have some content, for the off the beaten path traveller maybe worth to visit after reading the little information that we have there. It is even mentioned in the Nong Khai article. I would leave this for sure. Ban Rong I can´t find an article for. Completely empty articles I would remove yes, but other places maybe we can promote on the Main Page, ask for help so editors who know the location can add info. The smallest unknown places can be the most beautiful or interesting places to explore. Adzas (talk) 10:04, 24 April 2018 (EDT)
Hi Adzas!
Thanx for your feedback!
But I still stick by with what I have written. I have never heard of any of these places I posted until I did a detailed search (and I know that I can find many more similar ones - I just did not want to overload!)And as you are aware, I know Thailand thoroughly, having visited virtually every Province! (and still do to keep things up to date)
If I (or most other persons want to see what is in Thailand, we visit the Provincial City page - after all, the Capital of the Province has the same name as the Province. And we read the "do" or other pages.
If the destination is "big" as Hua Hin is in Prachuap Khiri Khan Province, and Koh Samui in Surat Thani Province, then of course they need a separate article.
But these small places need to be in the Provincial (City) article I think, as many more people will get to read about them.
And Muang Kut, which is an elephant place should really be moved to Chiang Mai, as there are several elephant places already there.
And also, I now cannot find Ban Rong. Maybe Management removed it, but it is not in the Province page. Avemario (talk) 03:54, 25 April 2018 (EDT)
Hello again! Apologies for the delayed response about this- I got tied up and just got to looking over this. Totally understand your point, Avemario. It was the same for me when I did a search about these places- there wasn't too much info and I had to do some serious digging. For Ban Muang Kut, I agree it should be moved to Chiang Mai as the information on that page can easily be added in the "Do" section and "Elephants". As for Jom Jang and Nong Prue, I feel like there's a bit of a grey area with these place even though they are significantly a lot smaller. For Jom Jang, the village has a uniqueness with its population being mostly local women farmers and community project. For Nong Prue, I'm torn between just adding the information to the Kanchanaburi page or leave it as it's own because it quite a distance away from the province and it could have some potential. But you're right about how the information is too minimal. I also can't find Ban Rong either so I'm not sure if that page got deleted. Love these discussions! IB hill (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
And once more................ Hellfire Pass is 72Km out of Kanchanaburi, Srinakarin Dam is 54Km, and these are just two places distant from Kanchanaburi City which are listed in the Kanchanaburi article. Nong Prue is quite close to Srinakarin Dam. (Do not confuse it with the Nong Prue in Pattaya (Chon Buri Province), which is some 250Km to the south)

So again, I think it should be moved.Avemario (talk) 19:10, 26 April 2018 (EDT)

(and again, remember that the name of the Province is the same as that of the Capital City of the Province, so these places above are within Kanchanaburi Province!(same as England, where the Capital of Derbyshire is Derby, of Yorkshire is York etc).Avemario (talk) 05:48, 27 April 2018 (EDT)

Vote for May 2018 Homepage!

Hey guys! This April will be coming to an end in 4 days... whoa! That means it's time to vote for the next feature on our homepage for May! This month we featured Botswana as "Destination Of The Month" with a huge emphasis on Greek for all the other categories. What do you guys want to see? Let us know by commenting down below! IB hill (talk) 16:19, 26 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

A location in Japan where you can see the beautiful blossom, like Binbin suggested last month. For the rest let me think a bit more. Adzas (talk) 09:43, 27 April 2018 (EDT)
Bora Bora! Just because I have been there long time ago and it is true paradise, blue waters, soft sand, coconut trees etc... Adzas (talk) 04:17, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
Ooh Bora Bora sounds lovely! Maybe that can be the "Destination Of The Month" as a precursor to summer with an emphasis on Japan culture for the other categories? IB hill (talk) 16:59, 30 April 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Traditionally, we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted, so that people who are planning trips can make use of them. So, we should put Japanese cherry blossoms (which happen in April) on the DOTM in, say, January, if we can. It is useful to think ahead as far as what people are planning 3-4 months out. Right now I would think about late summer and fall travel. IBobi (talk) 17:05, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
yes, you´re right, I thought the blossom could still be seen in May but that´s not the case. Brasil is a nice location for summer holidays. Landmark: the statue in Rio (Christ the Redeemer). Adzas (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
we should be using destinations that will be popular places to travel in the months after when they are posted... Then we should think about Russia: the FIFA World Cup is taking place over there between June and July. Brazil is another good option as well as other south american places (maybe Uruguay as OTBP?). GiulioC (talk) 02:38, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
Great point Giulio! Time to start working on our World Cup article again soon too! Let´s learn some Russian then as language of the month! Adzas (talk) 05:02, 1 May 2018 (EDT)
I vote for Igbo as "Language of the month" 12:24, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IBJoel
Wow! Lots of great suggestions guys! Maybe Bora Bora for Destination of the Month, Christ the Redeemer as Landmark, Uruguay as OTBP, French Polynesia as Cuisine Of The Month, Igbo for Language Of The Month. Thanks guys! IB hill (talk) 15:32, 1 May 2018 (EDT)IB_hill
Homepage has been updated! Thanks for voting everyone! IB hill (talk) 11:18, 2 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

GDPR Compliance Announcement

Hi everyone!

Starting on or before May 25th, 2018, Wikitravel will become GDPR compliant in accordance with the EU GDPR regulation.

If you are visiting this forum from an EU IP address, you will see a pop-up overlay that looks like this:

GDPR Notice from IB

After clicking "I Agree," this message should not appear again (unless you clear your browser cookies). You can learn more about this on this page. Thank you. IB hill (talk) 14:32, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

Slow servers?

My impression is that this site loads slowly. Have you had server issues? /Burbur (talk) 16:26, 21 May 2018 (EDT)

Hey Burbur! Not that I know of but I can go check that for you. Can you please let me know what operating system and browser you're using so I can investigate? Thanks! IB hill (talk) 16:48, 21 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
I use Windows 10 and Mozilla Firefox. /Burbur (talk) 19:09, 31 May 2018 (EDT)
Can you give us some more details with your user experience? What issues you think is going on with the server? IB hill (talk) 19:18, 31 May 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Seems to be fine now. SelfieCity (talk) 16:42, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Vote for June 2018 Homepage!

Still some time left, before today´s changes. The World Cup 2018 article is ready to go, anyone else getting excited for the upcoming event? As language of the Month Russian would be a great help I guess, for those making it over to Russia, but also because it´s such an interesting language to learn (yes, I made an attempt many years ago). Landmark of the Month, the Church of the Saviour on Spilled Blood in St. Petersburg. For Off the Beaten Path I´m going to think a bit more. Adzas (talk) 05:00, 1 June 2018 (EDT)

Sounds like a great idea Adzas! Will update by end of today. Does anyone else have any other preferences or thoughts? IB hill (talk) 14:42, 4 June 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
Homepage has been updated! IB hill (talk) 10:47, 7 June 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill
By the way, IB hill, if you write the four tildes, you do not need to write your username, because the system automatically replaces the tildes with your username. SelfieCity (talk) 16:54, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Travel guide block

I know and understand why Wikitravellers are not allowed to use the name of a competing travel guide on this website. For example, I'd like to say that I'm mainly a contributor to Wiki but am now signed up on Wikitravel as well. Any thoughts? Just asking, I don't mind if you don't want to change. SelfieCity (talk) 16:28, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Also, I'd look forward to becoming a regular contributor to WT. SelfieCity (talk) 21:04, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
Welcome! We would love for your to contribute more here :) But we do not allow references to 3rd party travel guides, sorry. IBobi (talk) 13:28, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
Thank you for your response. SelfieCity (talk) 18:17, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
Why is that? /Burbur (talk) 17:30, 12 June 2018 (EDT)
Hey Burbur! You can have a read here to better answer your question. IB hill (talk) 17:50, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Longtime Wiki policy to ensure that Wikitravel remains a primary source, for travelers, by travelers, and not a link farm. Experience has shown that once you start allowing references to one guide, everyone thinks they can link whatever they want. So we just say no references or links to other travel guides, and it has worked out very nicely. IBobi (talk) 17:51, 12 June 2018 (EDT)

Vote for the July 2018 Homepage!

I know it's really early, but it's better to start the nominating process early than to start late, so I think we may as well start now. I nominate the following with the idea of a Southwest theme:

  • Landmark of the Month: not sure
  • Cuisine of the Month: not sure

What do the others think? SelfieCity (talk) 23:14, 9 June 2018 (EDT)

Thanks for submitting your suggestions! We'll definitely circle back to this when the time gets closer. :) IB hill (talk) 18:19, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
Grand Canyon is a good landmark candidate. /Burbur (talk) 17:31, 12 June 2018 (EDT)
Thanks for submitting your votes early! Can't believe the first month of summer flew by fast. Please share your thoughts for what our homepage in July should be. Would love to get everyone's opinions! :) IB hill (talk) 13:15, 29 June 2018 (EDT)
What about a location in New England to prepare for autumn (I know, summer goes way too fast!), like Vermont? OBP somewhere in Alaska, Landmark of the Month: Chief Johnson Totem Pole in Ketchikan. Lovely memories...
I like the Grand Canyon as landmark and I too think that an autumn location where you can enjoy foliage would be great (New England or Japan). GiulioC (talk) 04:18, 30 June 2018 (EDT)
A location in New England or Japan will definitely be great. Speaking of autumn location, Jiuzhaigou would be great too: great views, rich colors, cool weather. Planning another trip :-).
Jiuzhaigou sounds like an amazing location, would be great to feature that! Adzas (talk) 04:58, 1 July 2018 (EDT)
All sound like great ideas! Maybe we can push the autumn idea to next month and do the Southwest theme that has been suggested for July? Also think it's a good idea to add Grand Canyon as Landmark of the Month. For Cuisine Of The Month, I think talking about New Mexico will be cool to top off the Southwest theme altogether. We can definitely revisit the autumn idea next month when the season gets closer and enjoy summer. :) IB hill (talk) 14:38, 2 July 2018 (EDT)

Updated DOTM and VFD pages

Those pages were out of date, so I have been archiving old nominations and bringing it all up-to-date. Just wanted the administrators and other editors to know this and that I'm not trying to cause problems. SelfieCity (talk) 22:37, 17 July 2018 (EDT)

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I'll take a closer look when I get a chance. IB hill (talk) 10:06, 18 July 2018 (EDT)
By the way, the information there about having the schedule go on for six months (which of course we don't do anymore) was not something I wrote, that was written many years ago when the website was set up, I think. SelfieCity (talk) 19:22, 5 August 2018 (EDT)

Vote for Aug 2018 Homepage

August is coming up in just a few days. Anyone have suggestions on what should be on the homepage? Comment below down here!IB hill (talkcontribs)

Hey, last month we were talking about a location for autumn and a few names came up (Vermont, New England, Japan, Jiuzhaigou). All of these (maybe someone here knows more specific locations in the US and Japan) could be DOM. GiulioC (talk) 03:43, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
I agree with Giulio, a nice autumn location would be great. Depending on what we choose we can base the food, landmark, language on that too! Adzas (talk) 14:40, 28 July 2018 (EDT)
A location for autumn sounds great! For food, isn't autumn best for sea food? Language can be decided after that. --Binbin (talk) 01:39, 29 July 2018 (EDT)
All great suggestions! Maybe we can do either Japan or Jiuzhaigou since we did a US destination for last month. Jiuzhaigou might be a more interesting choice as some people might not know too much about it! —The preceding comment was added by IB hill (talkcontribs)
I think Japan sounds excellent for next month's theme when you consider how Japan has its own cuisine, language, and surely plenty of landmarks (such as Samurai-type forts with Japanese architecture) and of course Mt. Fuji. Probably better climate for the time of year than the Southwest in July, as well (although the elevation of somewhere like the rim of the Grand Canyon brings the temperature to a reasonable level). SelfieCity (talk) 13:00, 30 July 2018 (EDT)
I love the idea of Japan. Plenty of good leaf viewing there in fall. IBobi (talk) 14:26, 30 July 2018 (EDT)
Ok! Let's do Japan then and stick with that theme where we can have cuisine and language be Japanese. Does anyone have any suggestions for OTBP? Maybe we can do one of the islands such as Hokkaido or Kyushu? IB hill (talk) 12:49, 31 July 2018 (EDT)
Talking about Hokkaido, while I was on that article I noticed a picture of the "Goko Five Lakes" in Shiretoko National Park, a national park on Hokkaido Island. Shiretoko Park is a usable article, so it seems like a good OTBP possibility except for the bears that live there, which are of course going to be a danger. SelfieCity (talk) 13:04, 31 July 2018 (EDT)
I just want to go to Japan now! I also started to read about the National Parks in the Hokkaido article, maybe to narrow it down a little for OBP we should pick one of those articles? Bears, sounds exciting! Adzas (talk) 16:29, 31 July 2018 (EDT)
Ooh, let's do that then. Thanks guys! IB hill (talk) 18:24, 31 July 2018 (EDT)
The Shiretoko National Park looks great! It'd be a good OTBP! GiulioC (talk) 03:15, 1 August 2018 (EDT)

Vote for Sept 2018 Homepage

The last month of summer is officially halfway over! This means it's a good time to start thinking what we want to see on the homepage for the first month of fall. If anyone has suggestions, please comment below! :) IB hill (talk) 10:54, 16 August 2018 (EDT)

In response to IB hill, I think a New England theme would work well. -- Selfie City (talk) 15:44, 21 August 2018 (EDT)
Thanks SelfieCity for sharing your thoughts! IB hill (talk) 14:29, 22 August 2018 (EDT)
I think Hartford would probably be a good DOTM, and Burlington for OTBP are definitely possibilities, since they are at usable status and have quite a lot of content. For a landmark, the United States side of the Niagara Falls looks like a pretty good article, and has 2 static maps. I'm not so sure about cuisine of the month or language of the month, although since French can be found close to New England in southern Canada, perhaps French would be a good choice.
At some point in the near future I might take a look at my DOTM and OTBP selections and make formatting-type edits where needed, so the articles look good when they're featured. -- Selfie City (talk) 14:02, 22 August 2018 (EDT)
I was actually thinking about another autumn location, since last month we were discussing between New England and Japan (and we ended up choosing the latter) this time we could choose New England. I don't know Hartford nor Burlington as suggested by Selfie City, so to me they're both good. GiulioC (talk) 04:59, 23 August 2018 (EDT)
Yes, I was suggesting Hartford and Burlington in line with the New England theme. -- Selfie City (talk) 14:53, 23 August 2018 (EDT)
So I've done some work on the Hartford and Burlington articles. Here's Hartford before my recent edits [2] and here's how it looks as of this comment [3]. Mostly just formatting fixes, etc., but every little bit helps.
Then on the Burlington article, it looked like this [4] and as of this comment it looks like this [5]. Again, pretty insignificant changes on the surface. Just wanted to let others know when considering what to feature next month that these are now formatted quite well. -- Selfie City (talk) 14:21, 24 August 2018 (EDT)
What about Sighisoara as OBP, or Transylvania in general, a great Halloween destination to visit the said birthplace of Dracula. Or Bran with as landmark of the month Bran Castle. Just to get into the mysterious mood of Halloween..... Adzas (talk) 04:29, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
We're going into September, not October, though. -- Selfie City (talk) 22:10, 27 August 2018 (EDT)
Correct Selfie City (talk) but we always try to plan ahead a few months with our articles so travellers can still book accordingly. Adzas (talk) 03:59, 28 August 2018 (EDT)
Transylvania! I like it! GiulioC (talk) 03:21, 30 August 2018 (EDT)
Hey guys! Thanks for your input for September's DOTM and OTBP. I'll go ahead and put Hartford and Burlington on the calendar. We can save Sigisoara and Transylavnia for October. :) IB hill (talk) 16:21, 30 August 2018 (EDT)

Question about Main Page

Hi! I am new here as an editor, though I have been reading this website for years and I have just looked at the main page. The strange thing is that I see it full-size, but it fits the left half of my computer screen. Is there any way to change the resolution of the main page to fit individual screens? --Fordaemdur (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2018 (EDT)

Fordaemdur, not sure what might be the issue but can you please let us know what browser and operating system you're using? Also, please send over any screen shots that may help our tech team look into the situation to admin(dot) Thanks! IB hill (talk) 10:12, 22 August 2018 (EDT)

Hyphen/dash formatting

Just wanted to check, since I couldn't find this in Wikitravel policy: it's considered best to use an mdash (that is, "—") instead of "-" or "--", right? Just wanted to check because I have been changing hyphens to mdahes in a couple articles. For example, see this link [6] to see what I mean by this. -- Selfie City (talk) 15:17, 22 August 2018 (EDT)

Hey Selfie City! So sorry for the delayed response... I thought I replied! I think your judgement is correct as I took a look at some of our star articles and they all have "&mdash". I'm assuming people might have forgotten about the style over time but it's always good to bring it back :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IB hill (talkcontribs)
Thanks. It's not the biggest formatting issue in the world but still one that I'll do in future for articles that are DOTMs, etc. -- Selfie City (talk) 11:54, 29 August 2018 (EDT)

Technical Issues with logging in

Hi everyone. There is a current issue with users not being able to log in. Just wanted to announce that we are well aware of it and will take care of it ASAP. Apologies for any inconveniences. 09:47, 23 August 2018 (EDT)IB_Hill

The issue has been fixed. Thanks for your patience! IB hill (talk) 13:55, 23 August 2018 (EDT)
I never even had a problem! :) Thanks for mentioning this anyway, though. -- Selfie City (talk) 14:53, 23 August 2018 (EDT)

Main page overlap

I've noticed for quite a while now that the travel news, phrasebook/picture of the month, and the DOTM slideshow all overlap over each other. I should have mentioned this earlier. -- Selfie City (talk) 12:40, 31 August 2018 (EDT)

Hey Selfie City!
We are well aware of this issue and have been in contact with the tech team to work on it. Can you let me know what browser and operating :system you're using? For my computer, it's only the "Language Of the Month" picture bleeding into the "Destination of the Month". IB hill (talk) 12:52, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
I'm using Chrome as the browser and Windows 10. -- Selfie City (talk) 13:11, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
Hmm good to know. If you can, please send over screenshots to [email protected](dot)com. Would appreciate if I can get a better understanding of what you're seeing. Thanks! IB hill (talk) 13:14, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
Could I perhaps upload the screenshot to this website? -- Selfie City (talk) 15:41, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
I'm also using Chrome and Windows 10 but I don't see anything unusual on my screen? Adzas (talk) 05:37, 1 September 2018 (EDT)

Vote for October 2018 Homepage

Halloween month is less than two weeks away! We had Sighisoara, Transylvania, and Bran mentioned already. Does anyone have any other suggestions they want to see on the homepage for October 2018? IB hill (talk) 18:00, 18 September 2018 (EDT)

I think these are really good options! But I'll think about some other places just to have some more ideas... if we want to have some weird, eerie place for Halloween, have you ever heard about the "Park of the monsters" in Bomarzo, Italy? GiulioC (talk) 04:00, 20 September 2018 (EDT)
I still like the idea of Transylvania. Maybe the Castle in Bran as the Landmark of the month, and Giulio's “Park of monsters” sounds like a great OBP destination, it is something new, I’ve never heard of it. Adzas (talk) 03:52, 21 September 2018 (EDT)
In all, there are about six different ones, right? There’s also cuisine and language. Apart from pumpkins, I can’t think of much related to October 31 in those fields. So what should we do with those? -- Selfie City (talk) 14:38, 22 September 2018 (EDT)
Those place are all very nice, but I still hope to see Jiuzhaigou [7], maybe as the OBP of this month? I've been there in an October holiday. Really nice at this time of the year, the view, the weather. Enjoy this beautiful season! Cheers! --Binbin (talk) 23:52, 22 September 2018 (EDT)
Mahbe Jiuzhaigou as the DOTM and Bran as the OTBP? But what I’m worried about with the one in China is this: if we’ve got it up until November on the page, won’t it be really cold there? Especially since we need to allow people 4 to 6 weeks to allow people to plan a trip to the place. Maybe somewhere tropical, subtropical, or northern hemisphere low elevation desert would be a good choice for one of the featured destinations. I’m not recommending these, but just some we could fall back on at any time in winter if we wanted to: Everglades National Park and Gibraltar. Gibraltar could be a DOTM, OTBP, or a landmark, by the way. -- Selfie City (talk) 23:01, 23 September 2018 (EDT)
You've certainly got a point about the temperature. Gibraltar as OTBP sounds fine. --Binbin (talk) 04:43, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
Maybe we need to look at those destinations in a “wider perspective”. Not everyone wants a warm destination, some love the cold. Not everyone needs a lot of time to plan, maybe someone is already travelling in for example China and can quickly decide to go to a destination nearby. But for sure we need to keep the options diverse, so DOM and OBP in different parts of the world would be great. As we wanted to create some Halloween atmosphere, there must be other nice destinations. What about Mexico where they celebrate the Day of the Dead, or I read something about Sleepy Hollow and its old Manor House that sounds quite cool for the Halloween holidays in October. Just some thoughts... Adzas (talk) 12:17, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
Apologies for the delay response- I was out of town but thanks for sharing, everyone! You all gave great suggestions. Perhaps we can do a combination of a fall and Halloween theme? Maybe Mexico as DOTM in honor of Day of the Dead + you can visit in the fall. And for OTBP, Bomarzo to highlight the "Park of Monsters" and Bran for Landmark of the Mark to tie with the Halloween theme. For cuisine and language, we can do Romanian since that's where Transylvania is located? We can save Everglades National Park, Gibraltar, and Jiuzhaigou for next month or the future. I think they group better together as they seem to be more nature focused. IB hill (talk)
Combining two themes is fine for me. If we choose Bomarzo I'll take care of the page and add some info. GiulioC (talk) 04:49, 27 September 2018 (EDT)
I think I’d go along with IB hill’s suggestions. But should perhaps Bomarzo be Landmark and Bran be OTBP? Just a thought. Also, is there a particular place in Mexico known for Day of the Dead? If so, maybe we could get a little more specific with our DOTM pick. Overall this will be a unique month — some interesting places! -- Selfie City (talk) 20:37, 28 September 2018 (EDT)
Great suggestions, Selfie City! It definitely makes more sense to make Bran as OTBP and Bomarzo as Landmark of the Month. I chose Mexico City for Day of the Dead as there is a snippet about it in that article. Homepage has been updated and thanks everyone for contributing!
Yep. We now have a couple weeks of peace! :) -- Selfie City (talk) 18:45, 1 October 2018 (EDT)

Vote for November 2018 Homepage

November homepage voting is now open! I think based on our last conversation, we were thinking about Everglades National Park, Gibraltar, and Jiuzhaigou as they all fit with the fall season? Does anyone have any other thoughts and suggestions? Please let us know! IB hill (talk) 18:11, 15 October 2018 (EDT)

They all look good to me. I'm already sick of autumn, so I'd choose places with mild weather...GiulioC (talk) 11:16, 16 October 2018 (EDT)
As we usually also try to plan a few months ahead, should we also not start thinking about the winter season? What about a great location with the Northern Lights (sorry, I talk about this all the time, just so amazing to see this....). Iceland or Finland maybe? Or one winter location and one milder location? Adzas (talk) 12:28, 16 October 2018 (EDT)
Yes. In the Northern Hemisphere, winter will have begun by November in many places. -- Selfie City (talk) 00:36, 18 October 2018 (EDT)
We can start thinking about the winter season! Which winter and mild location do you guys prefer? IB hill (talk) 17:56, 18 October 2018 (EDT)
Ok, what about Mývatn for OBP destination (or DOM)? It is located in the Northern part of Iceland, where apparently it is best to see the Northern lights, and this location article has content and looks really interesting. As Landmark a picture of the Northern Lights in Iceland? For someone who prefers a sunny destination, Cartagena (Colombia)? I have been there long time ago, interesting place for sure. I will think of other options. Adzas (talk) 04:38, 27 October 2018 (EDT)
Any place in Iceland or Lapland looks good for Northern Lights, also there are many places in Norway such as Tromsø. Mild locations: I like Adzas idea of Cartagena (Colombia). GiulioC (talk) 09:29, 28 October 2018 (EDT)
Ooh, those are good ideas. Would Cartagena (Colombia) be DOM or OBP? Trying to think about how we can group everything together so it makes sense? IB hill (talk) 14:28, 29 October 2018 (EDT)
If we pick Northern Lights as our main focus I would say a location there as DOM and then Cartagena as OBP....Adzas (talk) 06:02, 30 October 2018 (EDT)
Yes! Let's go with Northern Lights and Cartagena OBP. Landmark, Cuisine, Language of the month? I'd choose a Scandinavian language and may be the Blue Lagoon as landmark? Don't know about the cuisine though... GiulioC (talk) 11:00, 31 October 2018 (EDT)

Dates for pricing

Hi everyone,

I've long used Wikitravel but only now have gotten around to trying to contribute myself. A frequent annoyance of mine as a user is when I read a price for a given hotel, activity, etc. but there is no way to discern when that price was valid. I greatly appreciate it when there is a date just afterward so that I can know if I'm then being ripped off with a higher price, need to practice my haggling, or need to accept that five years later the price is going to be higher.

I recently updated some prices on a page with dates and they were immediately deleted by another user citing the guidelines (I apologize for having changed it back at first - I had checked the guidelines but under 'Accommodation Listings' and 'Price' under 'Listings' without seeing 'When to use dates' >_>*). This surprised me as it is such an important detail for a website like this. Travel guides traditionally were published with the year right in the title: you knew when the information was valid and could respond accordingly. The guidelines acknowledge that "The reality is that it can take a while for some destinations to be revisited and for the information to be updated in the guide. Meanwhile, knowing whether information is current or dated can be very useful to our readers. We need to find a balance between adding a date to all facts and maintaining an uncluttered travel guide", but then errs on the side of less 'clutter'. Why is this very useful detail considered clutter when others that could be considered less useful are not?

I feel that this compromise ignores the reality of being a web-based, date-free travel guide. It asks users to assume that prices (and schedules for that matter) are current and up to date. For some busy pages that may do but I've had experience after experience over the last year travelling and extensively using Wikitravel where the absence of this detail and then the inaccuracy of the information was only motivation to find a website more regularly updated. Knowing when information was valid is important and something that is not otherwise indicated. It is a nice thought on the guidelines' part that "When a price changes, we update the guide without retaining any previous pricing information", but that requires that a user who also contributes be made aware of the price change and then actually make the edit: the plethora of years expired prices calcifying pages across the site stand as testament to the inadequacy of relying solely on the prompt fulfillment of this expectation.

What finally motivated me to begin contributing myself was a conversation I had with a Couchsurfing host and his traveller friend a couple of weeks back. They said they had basically stopped using Wikitravel because they couldn't trust the information: they would read prices and details and discover them to be quite different. Reconsidering this guideline would at least provide some transparency so that users can know how much confidence to put into particular details.

Movethathoof (talk) 12:54, 18 October 2018 (EDT)

Hey Movethathoof! Thanks for taking the time to write out all your thoughts. You bring up valid points about why dates should be added and I do agree with how some info are outdated. Let me talk with our team and see if they have any thoughts and I'll see what we can do in terms of amending the guidelines. We appreciate you taking the time to bring this to our attention. If there's any changes that should be made to specific listings to update them, please feel free to make the edits- I'm sure readers will appreciate it too! IB hill (talk) 15:16, 18 October 2018 (EDT)
Although I also agree that it could be handy to see a date behind a price, the guide gets outdated very quickly, especially if you see price info from years ago, it just does not look good. In the history of an article it can be seen when an article was last updated, so this could help. Maybe instead of having all those dates in the articles (that I have been removing as per our guidelines, maybe it is a thought to drop a quick line on the talk page of an article to say that certain prices were updated. Adzas (talk) 04:37, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
I’m entirely sympathetic to both the argument that it doesn’t look good and gets out dated quickly, but feel that both put editors’ needs ahead of users. As a user I care far more about knowing the usefulness of a piece of information than the overall aesthetic appeal of a page - I don’t see why a site that is meant to help people should so value its appearance over its usefulness. And the prices do get out of date quickly, but they are out of date whether the date is there or not. The difference is that it becomes a lie by omission without the date, one that is frustrating and makes the site far less useful.
And sure, I thought as much that one could announce on or dig around the talk page to find the edit, but are we really expecting that of a common or casual user? That someone for whom the page appears in a search result is going to think to check that? That they will know to? And we add this obstacle to reasonable use...because /we/ want the page to ‘look nicer’?
Sounds like a strange set of priorities to me... Movethathoof (talk) 07:11, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
You're all bringing valid points to the discussion. I've always followed our guidelines and removed dates but I do believe we should try to find a solution. I don't mind having dates on the article even if it gets outdated quickly, but I don't think that leaving a message on an article's talk page is the best thing to do: an occasional user might only want to look for hotels or other info on the article and skip the talk page. I need to think more about it. GiulioC (talk) 09:56, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
Yes, let’s also see what others have to say. Just for the record, my comments above are also from a users perspective, not just as an editor. I personally won’t look at an article if I see lots of dates like 2012, 2013 etc, as that is what happens when those dates are not updated on a regular basis. That is the reason for my comment, not just because it is part of our policy. For sure policies can be changed, but it also has to make sense. The talk page is not ideal, just a thought as part of the brainstorming. Adzas (talk) 11:28, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
As someone still very new to editing the website I can’t say if there is a better way to address this issue, but I think the thought process above is quite illustrative. I can understand not looking at a page with lots of dates from 2012 or such, but not having the date doesn’t change how outdated those details are. Instead the user can’t even make that choice, has to make the assumption they’re accurate when they’re not, and then is left with a bad impression of the website when they are proved false. Personally I feel that having a user know there are pages with details that are out of date is better than the impression that nothing on the website can be trusted. Movethathoof (talk) 09:06, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
"having a user know there are pages with details that are out of date is better than the impression that nothing on the website can be trusted", and that's another strong point in my opinion. Here's another thought: instead of having dates added everywhere what bout having a banner at the beginning of the Eat/Drink/Sleep/whatever section? Just like the templates we use when articles need some attention. A simple banner to add saying "please note that some of the prices shown may be out of date" or something like that. GiulioC (talk) 10:29, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
I was thinking something similar, either a general comment at the sections, or at the bottom of the article (to avoid multiple messages), why not include a note in the template that we use there for usuable article, outline article etc, add a note to say that as prices may change quicker than they are updated here, prices should be seen as just a guideline or something like that.Adzas (talk) 11:18, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
In one regard it is better than nothing, to at least say “don’t trust this website”, but in another how much of a guideline is a price over five years old? For me the issue remains that the context is minimal - is it a guideline I can put trust in, or should I just seek a travel blog that was more recently updated? Or after page after page of faulty prices about which the editors refuse to give me all of the details about am I just going to stop checking the website like recent host and his friend? This would do nothing to assuage their frustration.
I don’t mean to be obdurate but the information becomes out of date and I don’t see why acknowledging this reality, when to the benefit of the user, has to be resisted - it is always going to be the reality for a site like this. What are the reasons besides ‘it doesn’t look nice’? Movethathoof (talk) 11:31, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
Hey Movethathoof! I think for now we need to stick with the current guidelines just because we want to encourage people to constantly update the pages as the site is user-generated. We appreciate you making the effort to address this and recognize your concerns. But for now, I think we need to take more time to think about this internally as this has been part of our guidelines since the site has launched. Hope you understand and hope to see you making useful edits! IB hill (talk) 17:45, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
Could you perhaps explain this reasoning more? I don’t myself see why having the dates would discourage updating - if anything, seeing their date and if the case is that they need updating should encourage them to be updated. Otherwise, again, if there’s no date, the assumption we’re asked to make is that they’re already current - we can’t know they need updating if there is no date. So I don’t really understand the relation you draw there. Movethathoof (talk) 21:55, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
Should I assume then that I will not be answered and this will not be addressed? Or when you reference taking time to think about this internally, is there some accountability as to what that means, when that 'time' would refer to? Movethathoof (talk) 19:18, 29 October 2018 (EDT)