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::Let's see.. The entries on the map that are missing in the guide are either non-existent, like the movie theater (it was demolished a couple of years ago), non-functional, like all but one of the bath houses, or unaccessible, like the "Albanian Church" in the middle of town (it is a warehouse for school number 5). Tea houses.. They really don't have names usually, are quite nondescript, and there are so many; it is hard to walk 5 minutes without seeing one. The best one is a bit expensive, but I made a note of it in the itinerary- near the palace of the Sheki Khans. I will try to format the itinerary a bit better, and stick some pictures in it. [[User:Cupcakecommander|Cupcakecommander]] 01:41, 28 August 2007 (EDT)
::Let's see.. The entries on the map that are missing in the guide are either non-existent, like the movie theater (it was demolished a couple of years ago), non-functional, like all but one of the bath houses, or unaccessible, like the "Albanian Church" in the middle of town (it is a warehouse for school number 5). Tea houses.. They really don't have names usually, are quite nondescript, and there are so many; it is hard to walk 5 minutes without seeing one. The best one is a bit expensive, but I made a note of it in the itinerary- near the palace of the Sheki Khans. I will try to format the itinerary a bit better, and stick some pictures in it. [[User:Cupcakecommander|Cupcakecommander]] 01:41, 28 August 2007 (EDT)
:::The Albanian church is inside the school grounds and it serves as a warehouse.  Like 3 of the 4 bathhouses do not function. The one that does is quite dirty (I've been there once). I will make the markings for the tea houses, although it doesn't seem necessary as there is a plethora of them.
:::The Albanian church is inside the school grounds and it serves as a warehouse.  Like 3 of the 4 bathhouses do not function. The one that does is quite dirty (I've been there once). I will make the markings for the tea houses, although it doesn't seem necessary as there is a plethora of them.
thank you very much for your encouragement! The idea to work on Bulgaria came to me after just getting back from a two-week holiday in that country. I have plenty of notes, but, of course, I have noticed that there is already an excellent version in English. I hope to be able to add some more stuff to the cities and regions (and probably complement the English with some new info). I might even add some small tit-bits to the English, and then expand the Spanish. In any case, I am unfamiliar with the copyright issues. Am I to attribute explicitly the English contributors? How is that done? Any other suggestions? All the best,
--[[User:DavidSaldanaSage|DavidSaldanaSage]] 09:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Revision as of 13:41, 29 August 2007



Hey, I was wondering if you ever though about utilizing networks of ex-pats and English/German/etc speaking youth in Georgia and other places to help build up information on the country? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cupcakecommander (talkcontribs)

Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, I'm bad about holding on to email addresses... --Peterfitzgerald 23:02, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Official welcome


Welcome to Wikitravel. You can edit your preferences to change how the software works for you. Please take a second to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you're new to our wiki software, MediaWiki, look at the Wiki markup to get an idea of how to edit a page. If you need help, check out the help desk, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.

Again, welcome to the wonderful world of Wikitravel and if you have any questions feel free to ask. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 22:44, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Georgian phrasebook

Wow, nice work getting it started! - Cacahuate 01:23, 28 February 2007 (EST)


You asked about satellite imaging a few days ago and depending on how dedicated you are to expanding our Eurasian guides. I'm looking into a program, which may provide these images. If you'll remind me within the next three days to get back to you about it I'll let you know, if it works. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 00:19, 5 March 2007 (EST)

It's not working, yet. I can zoom in on Tbilisi, but everything gets blurry. The reason for that may be because I limited the size of information that can be downloaded.
I'm still a little curious about the satellite images, since they are created by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Normally, all works are public domain, however, the program, which was created by the agency is not public domain, but is similar in spirit to the GNU FDL license. I've sent an email asking about this issue, though.
Anyhow, if you want to try it out the program is called World Wind [1]. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:41, 7 March 2007 (EST)
Ok, well I did the reading I should have done in the first place and apparently the LandSat satellites have poor resolution. Apparently the only reason U.S. destinations can have such clarity and great resolutions is because it's a combination of different works. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:59, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Photo of Charleston WV

Your picture of the Capitol building in Charleston is beautiful! Unless you object, I've added it to the main West Virginia page. Funnily enough, I was just thinking that it would be nice to put a picture of the Capitol there, and not an hour later I stumbled upon yours. Thanks for posting it! — Haem85 03:29, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Hey thanks! I went a bit out of my way to get that photo, which includes the backyard of someone's house on the opposite side of the river! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:14, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
Ha, wow - now that's determination! Love the blooming tree in the foreground - a very nice splash of color! -- Haem85 21:26, 31 March 2007 (EDT)


Hello Peter, I just saw your map about the US states you visited. It looks like a map we are searching for weeks now. I made a template on the German version of Wikitravel showing the location of a city in the country. To make it easy to use, you only have to give a "map code" and the coordinates (latitude/longitude). The problem with this system is, that we need a special map projection so that the template can easyly calculate the position of a given location in the map.

I could not find a good map about the US so what we are using now is not really nice, look at de:New_York_City/Manhattan. So it would be nice if you could upload a plain version of your map! Thanks! --Flip666 writeme! • 19:15, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Flip, that's the map made by World66! --Evan 12:55, 6 April 2007 (EDT)


Peter: I'm really glad to hear that you're overhauling the Wikitravel:geographical hierarchy for Russia. Could you do me a favor and document the hierarchy on Talk:Russia, just so it's clear to everyone working on Russian articles? The hierarchical list format on Talk:Southern California/Hierarchy is useful, but you can also just make a list like in Talk:China#Regions. Thanks, --Evan 12:59, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

It's now available here. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:57, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

You have several Russian region articles proposed for deletion because they've been replaced in the new scheme. I just turned Primorskiy Krai into a redirect instead. This is cheap and it means anyone who searches for that spelling will find the correct page. Can others be handled the same way? Ir looks possible to me, but I don't know Russia. Pashley 08:35, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, you are right, I have changed vfds to redirects where possible. Northern Russia should still be deleted, however. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 11:16, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
Also, if you "move" articles rather than copy-and-pasting then redirecting, the history gets kept -- meaning that other people get credit for their work. See Wikitravel:How to rename a page. --Evan 12:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
Ah, sorry about that. This Russia task is pretty big, so I have been discovering region pages after having created new ones - is there any way to merge two articles without losing the history of one of them? --Peterfitzgerald Talk 12:14, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

feedback for wikitravel

Hi, thanks for your email about the East Sussex pages, i live in East sussex and guide books seem to pass it over, so thought i'd add a little somethign to the page; anyway, Ive contacted you since you appear to be quite big in 'wikitravel' and was wondering if you could give me the contact details fo the founders/ programmers/ owners of wikitravel, as I ahve an idea...

Could wikitravel not have a feedback console for each article, giving people the ability to leave feedback for each article, giving plus points or points of improvement? which could then be followed upon, or praise for the article, i often read articles and feel guilty that the person who spent time and effort creating the article is not getting thanks for his or her for thier gratious work.

thanks anyway


name problems

Hi, I ahve a problem with editing my local area, I am trying to create a page for Heathfield, Sussex, but there is already a Heathfield, Australia, how can I create a Heathfield sussex page without having to call it (as I ahev already tried to do) heathfield_uk which doesnt seem to be in line with wikitravels formatting proceedures.





From tomorrow, i will add more images to Georgia article. Thanks a lot for your massage. Love Georgia. CanadianTraveler 15:40, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

West Virginia

Thanks - it did get me thinking that there are lots of cities that aren't listed on a region page. I think I'll make that my next undertaking. -- Fastestdogever 22:19, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Yup, looks good. When you get a chance, see if you can figure out the colors so the boxes correspond to the region. They're called "Web-safe colors" (at least in Corel). Black is "000000" and white is "FFFFFF" - the colors should be some mix of F's C's & #'s. Let me know if you have a problem & I'll try explaining it better. -- Fastestdogever 15:14, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
Nice job on the map - looks good! -- Fastestdogever 16:26, 3 May 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter, Gori sounds like an interesting place. For gneral guidance on articles, see Wikitravel:Manual of style and probably more usefully, Wikitravel:Small city article template. For this article, I think it needs specific information on the attractions and sleep, buy listings etc so that you can really plan your trip - addresses, phone numbers, opening hours, prices etc. I gather from the article that there are probably not many more listings to add, but those that are there could be sharpened up a bit. Let me know if you want any further advice on this. -- DanielC 16:44, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, I'll see if I can find some more specific listings info to get this article up to "guide" status—it would be my first! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 19:15, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Persian phrasebook

Do you know much about Persian? If so, please comment on Talk:Persian_phrasebook#Persian_vs._Farsi. Thanks! – cacahuate talk 02:16, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Districtising Chicago

You mentioned about working on some district articles for Chicago (particularly Hyde Park) a while back. Just letting you know that its a good idea as the main article is a bit too big and could do with some of the actual listings being tucked away to make the article easier to read. However, it's worth waiting until there's a bit of a consensus before going ahead with splitting up an article as it can be a bit of a waste of time if you do too many districts and have to redo them! I will have a scour round and see if I can find some people who know Chicago reasonably well to comment on the splitting and make some suggestions (I can't - I've never been there before!) -- -- Tim (writeme!) 14:48, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

I can certainly help with the southside neighborhoods, but I never ventured too far north of the river! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 10:03, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Russian Maps

Have a look at University of Texas Library - Map collection, specifically russia_pol_1994.pdf

The copyright looks good as well, from their FAQ:

  • Are the maps copyrighted?

Most of the maps scanned by the University of Texas Libraries and served from this web site are in the public domain. No permissions are needed to copy them. You may download them and use them as you wish. A few maps are copyrighted, and are clearly marked as such. Any that are copyrighted by The University of Texas are subject to our Materials Usage Guidelines. A few maps include the official seal of a U.S. Government agency. Federal law prohibits use of these seals in connection with any merchandise, impersonation, solicitation, or commercial activity in a manner reasonably calculated to convey the impression that such use is approved, endorsed, or authorized by the agency. We do appreciate hearing from you about your uses of these materials and we would also appreciate your giving this site credit when it is referred to in anything you publish. Other sites may link to our site or to individual maps without our permission. Other map-related web sites we link to are frequently protected by copyright. Contact them for information about their usage policies.

If you need help getting the tracing done, let me know.

--NJR_ZA 16:29, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks Nick, I may well need some help with tracing—tracing my Russia#Regions map took way longer than I think it should have. On the upside, I think I finally have good enough source images to get moving on regional maps for Russia! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Tracing Maps

Setting the path width: Object→Fill and Stroke→Stroke Style ... you will find an option to set the stroke width there.

Individual opbects: Once I have completed the trace, I create layers for each object I want, then I copy the trace onto one of those layers, delete the paths that don't belong there and join the paths that are left to become one object. Repeat for each object you want. It's a bit more work, but you do end up with a much move useful and flexible map. --NJR_ZA 01:50, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Automated tracing potrace vs. autotrace

I've been looking at autotrace and it seems to do a rather better job than potrace (the tracer embedded in inkscape). It has a centerline option that results in the output generating a path rather than an enclosed shape, exactly what you wanted earlier.

You might want to give this one a try.

Best results so far are on black and white images and they are not perfect yet, but definitely workable; I'll continue testing.

Command line options are quite easy to use \autotrace-0.31.1-w32>autotrace -output-file testout.svg -output-format svg -report-progress -centerline testin.gif

I just ran a test over one of the maps you found using the following options:
D:\Download\autotrace-0.31.1-w32>autotrace -output-file m.svg -output-format svg -report-progress -centerline -background-color fce0ec "\WikiTravel\maps\tmp\BlankMap-RussiaDistricts-Mercator.png"
You can find the result at Image:Map-Russia01.svg. Obviously the paths will have to be manually combined to create usable objects, but the trace looks rather good. This will save a heap of time. --NJR_ZA 09:54, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
Scratch that, it get's better, way way better. Autotrace is far better than I ever expected any tracing program to be.
I did some cleanup of the source png in the GIMP to make it a nice clean black and white image. Then I ran autotrace without the -centerline option and it was bright enough to create perfectly traced objects for each district. The command was simply: autotrace -output-file Russia02.svg -output-format svg -report-progress BlankMap-RussiaDistricts-Mercator-BW.png and I ended up with a nice svg that I imported into our template and created Image:Map-Russia02.svg.
Because everything was so easy and working so nicely I then went ahead and coloured the regions as per your existing map. Image:Map-Russia03.svg
Autotrace rocks! --NJR_ZA 14:35, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Hey, I wanna join the party! Am I right in seeing that it's only for Windows? If I have to manually trace another map I'm gonna have a meltdown... just finished Asia... uggghh.... – cacahuate talk 21:48, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Me again, let's move this discussion to Wikitravel talk:How to draw a map so others can see it and hopefully chime in. I like where we're heading! – cacahuate talk 23:29, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

West Virginia Map

That map looks good to me. Correct font, wikitravel logo and matches the article.

As far as the article goes, I would rather swap the first map on that article with the photo just below it, maps are nice, but a photo describes a region or place a lot better than a map and it is alway nicer and better to have a photo as the intro image rather than a map.

--NJR_ZA 16:51, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Siberia map

The Siberia map looks great. However, I have a question: At the moment, Siberia is divided into three regions - Eastern Siberia, Krasnoyarsk Krai, and Western Siberia. On the map, the former is color coded blue and the latter green. However, Krasnoyarsk Krai appears to comprise only one section of the large purple area. Is there a name for that whole region that includes Taymyria and Evenkia in addition to Krasnoyarsk Krai? Incidentally, thanks for all your help with the Russian articles. You've really made a very positive and helpful contribution. Cheers. WindHorse 03:37, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for your reply. Actually, had I first looked at the Krasnoyarsk Krai article, I would have realized that Krasnoyarsk region was not the same as the krai, but only part of it. Maybe a key on the map identifying the three color coded areas might help clarify the situation. What do you think? Anyway, I'll leave any decision on that in your capable hands. Already it's good enough. WindHorse 03:57, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Cities of the Russian Federation

So, I wanted to draw your attention to Wikitravel:World cities#Russian Federation. It might be a good idea to make sure all of those cities are listed in the new hierarchy for Russia. What would be great would be to actually make stubs for each! --Evan 11:47, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Working on it ;) --Peterfitzgerald Talk 11:49, 8 May 2007 (EDT)


Discussion moved to Talk:Russia#Oblasts

Administrator nomination

I've just nominated you as a Wikitravel administrator. See Wikitravel:Administrators for what that entails and Wikitravel:Administrator_nominations#Nominations for the discussion of your nomination. Please let us know on the latter page whether you accept. Pashley 23:58, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

New Map

Looks good. To add the internet cafes, I think you should add a Contact heading to the annotation box (to keep them matching the sections in the article) and list the internet cafes under there. Unfortunately we do not have an internet cafe icon on the template yet. I'll build us one this afternoon and add it to the template. Will let you know when it is ready. --NJR_ZA 01:29, 24 May 2007 (EDT)

Internet cafe icon has now been added to shared:Image:Wikitravel-map-template-PD.svg -- NJR_ZA 01:21, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
Great! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:28, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Gori Map

Hi Peter, I like what you did with the map...much easier to read. Scratch the earlier message, assuming you got it. I figured out how to edit SVG files and made a few minor changes--added the bus terminal, post office, and repositioned Gori State University. Please check and see if it meets with your approval. I'm going to see a few friends this weekend, and going to try to get them to help edit the pages for their respective sites.

Chicago districts

Wow! I didn't mean to rain on your parade. Sorry but for some reason I had overlooked the neighbourhoods discussion, and so I just forged ahead. I think your scheme is pretty close to the one that I was trying to implement, with a couple of exceptions.

I think one of the main goals with these district pages should be to create coherent pages with enough information for a traveller. Unfortunately if we just split up the city from the point of view of locals we'll wind up with pages (as in the case of the port of Chicago) with practically no information at all.

Anyhow, I'll give the talk page a read, and comment there. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one interested in fixing this up. -- Mark 08:12, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Master oblaster


Congratulations on finishing Russia (or at least the regioning of it)! The underlying structure of a guide like Wikitravel isn't sexy work, but it makes a huge difference to have it done, and to have it done well. I hereby award you this Wikitravel Barnstar for your efforts. - Todd VerBeek

Hey, I meant to do that yesterday and forgot! Consider it Barnstar2!! – cacahuate talk 21:52, 28 May 2007 (EDT)
Thank you both! This has been a pretty big task and it feels good to have reached something approaching completion (by wiki standards). Oh and I like the title ;) --Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)


Have you spent much time in Baku? If so, I've attempted to split that huuuuuuge list of restaurants up into budget/mid/splurge categories, but to be completely honest, I just picked arbitrary points to split at (up to 10 AZN as budget, 10-20 AZN as mid and 20+ AZN as splurge) so it would be great if you could just give it a quick check! Also, there's a whole bunch without prices which I plonked into mid range - if you know any of them, please put them into the correct place. -- Tim (writeme!) 13:29, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I can't see any reason why we can't split them up into types after the initial price split. It would make it a lot more manageable.-- Tim (writeme!) 14:31, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

CotW unscheduled nominations are getting a bit thin!

We could do with a few more suggestions for articles that could be future CotWs, so if you know of any please be sure to add them to the list! Thanks -- Tim (writeme!) 07:50, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

More Gori Additions

Hey, I've been slowly but surely adding info to the Gori page. When you get a chance, please look over what I have so far. Feedback appreciated. Thanks!Cuttino 07:36, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Georgian geography

Hi I don't want to screw up your grand job of sorting out our Georgia regions, so please can you link/move/delete/redirect Samegrelo-Zemo_Svaneti as is necessary? -- Tim (writeme!) 17:27, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Azerbaijan Map

Great map! One -probally nitpicky- thing, it is Sheki, not Shekhi because it is Şəki, not Şəkhi. Not really important though. Hope that you are doing well! Thanks again!Cupcakecommander 00:04, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

Brits and towns

Brits have a problem with the "Cities" header because someone (presumably of an ecclesiastical nature) once decreed that only a settlement with a cathedral was a "city". (Don't ask me how this is supposed to work in places where non-cathedral-building religions are prevalant.) Even to this day there's some bureaucratic nonsense involved for a city in the UK to be allowed to call itself a "city". - Todd VerBeek 09:01, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Le Mans map

Hello. Yep, I will upload the SVG map, but I am still working on it to also add a wide overview including the circuit. Give me on or two days. :) Tensaibuta 11:24, 9 June 2007 (EDT)



I did the change about Ardennes, you reverted recently. Even though there are not other articles about Ardennes than Champagne-Ardennes one, Ardennes refer primarily to the hill range tha is mostly in Belgium (see wikipedia article. Redirecting to the region seems quite odd to me. I guess it's more correct to do either an article of its own, either to write a disambiguation article such as the one I wrote. Redirecting from Ardennes to Champagne-Ardennes is simply not correct.Whistopathe80.200.239.160 12:45, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for your note, and sorry for my hasty revert! I see you are right that disambiguation would be useful in this case, since wikitravellers could be searching for either the Ardennes in France or Belgium. I'll try and set this straight now. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:48, 9 June 2007 (EDT)
No wrongdoing, but maybe check before reverting next time... 10:50, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
Actually, what would really help would be a short note explaining your edits. Admins are stretched pretty thin to keep up with the recent changes patrol and I usually wind up patrolling about 50 edits per 15 minutes—I'm bound to make a few mistaken reverts at that rate. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:45, 10 June 2007 (EDT)



why the reversion of the highly useful notes on closed clubs and luxurious hotels in the Berlin-Mitte section? Also: the Nikolaiviertel is NOT a reconstructed historical quarter! It just looks a bit like one...

Kind regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by [[User:{{{1}}}|{{{1}}}]] ([[User_talk:{{{1}}}|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/{{{1}}}|contribs]])

Hmm, I'm racking my brain to try and remember why I reverted this one. I'm afraid this was a simple goof on my part. I'll revert back to your previous version—sorry about that! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:51, 10 June 2007 (EDT)


So, somthing(nun-possesive) sexi is some type of workshop or factory in Azeri. The accent for Şəki changes the k to a ch (ç), so that is where you may be confused there. Thanks so much for changing it. If you ever find yourself up this way, please let me know! I'll be here for 15 more months. Cupcakecommander 01:17, 11 June 2007 (EDT)


Sweet map! Gorilla Jones 13:39, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! I've actually got grandiose plans to map the whole city, but I'll see how I feel after a few more districts ;) --Peter Talk 13:57, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Soviet Georgia

Mountaineering trip in the Caucasus about 20 years ago. We were climbing Mount Elbrus, but had to retreat owing to my wife getting pulmonary edema. We just barely strayed into Georgia as a result of the improvisation we worked to get her to lower altitude. See Altitude sickness -- pulmonary edema is a thing where, if you stay high, you die; if you descend, you live, it's that simple. So if somebody gets it, you go DOWN NOW and worry about the logistics later. Fascinating trip, anyway, medical emergency or no medical emergency. BTW, thanks for all the stuff you've done on the FSU. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 00:56, 15 June 2007 (EDT)


Would you tell me (and help me) about/with any problems regarding Wikitravel:Star nominations#Cincinnati. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:38, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Chicago map

Sorry I didn't notice this before - on the big map, there's an apostrophe in Rogers Park that shouldn't be there. (Not Roger's Park.) Gorilla Jones 19:35, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

South Side stars

As I recall, you said you're not in Chicago and won't be for a few months. Let me know if there's anything you can't do/get in your quest to make those articles stars. I'll see if I can help. Gorilla Jones 21:09, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

I had a whack at it. The Climax's number had been disconnected (alas), but the Kimbark's number was only temporarily disconnected, according to the recording, so I'll give that one another call later. I don't mind making some calls to Bronzeville. Gorilla Jones 16:50, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Sacred mountains

Hi Peter, thanks for your edit. However, all the sacred mountains in China have been given their own articles because they usually have (much) accommodation plus a multitude of other places of interest which cannot be covered on a regional article or city article. Please take a look at the mountain section listed under China#Other destinations. WindHorse 05:15, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

No problem. Actually, I was impressed by the speed of your edit. One second my redirect was there, and then the next it was in Hunan (Ha Ha). Actually, the sacred mountains in China are a much larger concern than their counterparts in Japan or Korea. The latter are usually only connected with one tradition, and so just house one, albeit sprawling, monastic complex, whereas the sacred mountains in China (especially Mount Emei and Mount Wutai) are covered with with a multitude of independent temples, hermitages and statues and it can take days to visit them all on foot. WindHorse 05:32, 29 June 2007 (EDT)


It's best to just ignore this guy - he's been appearing regularly for over a year in various forms. See Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy#Union (Maine) and Ocean Park. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:32, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Will do. --Peter Talk 19:44, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Coop's discount something or another

The reason the name wasn't showing up is because the name of the shop wasn't contained within quotation marks immediately following the name=. You can see what I did to fix it, but it's kind of hard to notice since I simply moved one mark. Here's the diff. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 06:16, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

It's always something simple like that, that my mind doesn't seem to process. Thanks! --Peter Talk 06:23, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago photos

That deep dish pizza photo is one heck of a find. My god, that thing is huge! Gorilla Jones 18:54, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Republic of Ireland#Usefulness of the Provinces

Peter, Copied from the above section -

<own horn toot>Oh wow! I forgot how nice my map was!</own horn toot> Is it safe to say that I should plunge forward with this, as no one has objected? --Peter Talk 03:52, 29 June 2007 (EDT)
Peter, this acutally looks good, IMHO! The map looks very good too :). Are these the Fáilte Ireland (official tourist agency) regions? That would probably be the best way to sort out the counties on a tourist website! I'd say, plunge forward --The.Q 08:21, 2 July 2007 (EDT)
As I look at your map again, I think you may need to show the location of some of the main towns also, to give the traveller a good idea as to what's where! --The.Q 08:28, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

I'd be interested to hear more from you on this. --The.Q 11:45, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Peter, off the top of my head, I suppose you'd need to include at least one town/city for each region. Without having put too much thought into it, I'd suggest the following (by region):

Northwest Ireland, Sligo and Letterkenny
West Ireland, Galway and Athlone
Shannon Region, Limerick
Southwest Ireland, Cork
Southeast Ireland, Waterford
East Coast & Midlands, Dublin obviously, and also Kilkenny

These are a few thoughts, if I thought harder about it (which I will do!) I'd possibly change a few of them. I'll come back to this. --The.Q 08:20, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Well, I said I'd think about it, and I did! Each of the traditional counties in Ireland has one (or sometimes two) town(s) which is known as the county seat. This is usually the largest town in the county, frequently the administrative centre of the county also, although this is not absolute. For each of the regions, then, I have written below the county towns (and their respective counties), in what I would consider order of importance. I would then leave it up to your judgement as to which of them you could include on your map, taking into account how much space you have, Etc.
  1. Dublin, County Dublin
  2. Naas, County Kildare
  3. Athlone, County Westmeath (actually Mullingar is the county town for Westmeath, but Athlone is more tourist-centric)
  4. Wicklow, County Wicklow (Bray is actually bigger, but it is practically a suburb of Dublin)
  5. Longford, County Longford
  6. Navan, County Meath
  7. Tullamore, North County Offaly
  8. Portlaoise, County Laois
  9. Dundalk, County Louth

  1. Waterford, County Waterford
  2. Kilkenny, County Kilkenny
  3. Clonmel, County Tipperary (Co. Tipp. is historically divided into two, and the South Riding is in South East Ireland)
  4. Wexford, County Wexford
  5. Carlow, County Carlow
  1. Sligo, County Sligo
  2. Letterkenny, County Donegal (actually, the much smaller Lifford is the county town)
  3. Carrick-on-Shannon, County Leitrim
  4. Cavan, County Cavan
  5. Monaghan, County Monaghan
  1. Galway, County Galway
  2. Castlebar, County Mayo
  3. Roscommon, County Roscommon
  1. Limerick, County Limerick
  2. Ennis, County Clare
  3. Nenagh, County Tipperary (Co. Tipp. is historically divided into two, and the North Riding is in the Shannon Region)
  4. Birr, South County Offaly
  1. Cork, County Cork
  2. Tralee, County Kerry (although Killarney may be more appropriate for tourists)

Does this help, or make it more difficult??!! --The.Q 10:24, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Well Done!

Paul, the maps look great. Well done!! At a quick first glance, the only error I can see is on the Image:Ireland road map.png the spelling of Monaghan is incorrect, you have it spelt with an e, i.e., Moneghan. Other than that, they're great. Having a quick look at the Ireland page, I can see that a lot of changes will need to be made if this page is to help travellers across the whole island, i.e., the infobox on the side needs to ahve the Union flag as well as the Irish flag, the capitals need to be Dublin and Belfast, the population needs to be increased, the two different currencies need to be mentioned, Etc., Etc., Etc. Other wise Northern Ireland could quickly end up gettign lost. I'll see what I can do about some of the changes, but I'm supposed to be working today (!) I'll also have a wee look at the Ireland regional pages, and let you know. Well done again. --The.Q 04:55, 12 July 2007 (EDT)


In my Jazz and Blues spiel, I put the HotHouse in the Near South, but I note that the listing has been placed in the Loop article. Which is correct? Gorilla Jones 14:36, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

That's not a strong area of expertise for me, so I'd defer to your judgment there. I've always thought of Chicago in terms of the CTA, not roads, so for me, the Loop ends where the Red Line comes out of the subway. But that's just me! Gorilla Jones 14:16, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
Coming back to this that I'm digging into the area, I'm finding a lot of references to "South Loop" as a distinct neighborhood (not just the southern part of the Loop). And there's a ton of new residential development there. So I'm inclined to shift the southern boundary of the Loop to Balbo. Does that sound all right to you? (Does it show signs of megalomania to so cavalierly re-draw entire sections of the city?) Gorilla Jones 23:33, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
Actually, let's push it all the way to Harrison - that way we can include Printer's Row more cleanly in the Chicago/Near South. When you're up and running with your faulty monitor, please update the map that one - I'm done adding listings and am gunning for a star once I can get my hands on a photo. Gorilla Jones 21:14, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

Since you're a Rus-ophile talk 15:19, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago Skyline

Your skyline photo's are a great idea for visitors!! Wish I had that when I visited there!! Any photo's of Field Aquarium, my favorite Chicago stop? 2old 10:12, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

  • I see. I was thinking you were in Chicago. But, yes it would be very helpful to a vistor. I was thinking "inside of". ummm, looks like I have been thinking too much. 2old 16:20, 10 July 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter. Thanks for your work on the Irelend article. However, I personally don't think that a full consensus had yet been reached to change the title. Therefore, I have added the discussion from the Republic of Ireland Talk page for future reference. Also, there is a map of Ireland superimposed over the main text of the article. Where do you want this to be placed? Take it easy. WindHorse 21:55, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Please don't worry about that. I was not in anyway complaining (In fact, I'm happy to see you do all the work - Ha Ha). As you say, sometimes we just have to plunge forward. My only concern about the matter was that perhaps placing Northern Ireland under an umbrella title of Ireland might offend Unionist sentiments, and therefore be the source of an edit war. Therefore, I thought it better to add the whole discussion on the Talk page for future reference, and then if there is some dissent, contributors can pick up on the discussion without the need to repeat. Otherwise, using Ireland as the main title is very reasonable from a traveler's prospective - which should be the main criteria on WT. Anyway, hopefully people will realize that decision to use Ireland as the title was based on the traveler first policy and is not a political statement. Yes, it appears to be that the quickbar is forcing the regions map over the text. How can we clear it? WindHorse 22:24, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
Thanks for all your comments. You have read the discussion, so I am more than happy to leave the decision in your capable hands. I have never visited the North, so I don't know about border controls, but I think I had to show my passport in both Cork and least I remember carrying it...Anyway, as I said, please do as you feel appropriate, and if you need my help, let me know - though I can only offer it later in the day or tomorrow as I'm about to sign out. Take it easy, and sorry to give you a headache. WindHorse 22:31, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
The regional map of for US is not superimposed over the text, but it is smack in the middle of the article. The Ireland regional map is now lined up with the quick bar. It looks good, but there is a huge amount of white space between the opening intro sentences and 'Regions'. WindHorse 22:40, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Pictures by Flowergirl

Peter, thanks for the nice comments on my pictures. the uploading of pictures seems to be odd. I do u/l them, but have to do it twice, in order to get the image link in proper format style..

Is there another way to u/l them?

And do you have a quick search bar, to get to flikr.

Also, I will check out the other place you mentioned, to d/l the pictures to. I will read up on it, tomorrow.;)

Images are my specialty, and so pleased that you appreciated my efforts.:

Flowergirl 00:03, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Peter, I need a bit of guidance here I believe. First of all, let me tell you that I had gotten the pictures, from Flickr. I am not sure that this is the source that you prefer I use.If not, then please briefly explain what source you want me to use. And, do I have to join that source?. with a different user name and password?
As for the problem that I encountered. I searched for and found the picture that I needed for the article. I saved the picture, and copied the link. I then went to Upload file. I attributed it, and then hit download. Well the picture was downloaded, but the [source.jpg|thumb|description} etc. that I needed to copy and paste into the site page, did not come up. I had to go through the same process as before, and this time it tells me that the picture was already d/l and shows me the link. I click on the d/l again link, and this time the correct [source.jpg|thumb|description} comes up and I can add this to the article page. I have no idea why it does not show the first time, and yet does the second time.
Now. tell me, if you do not want me to use this method, eg. flickr?
I will wait until your reply, to add more pictures.
Also, I am going to attempt to edit the Florida sites, since I come from Florida. Is there a procedure to go through to do this, or do I just do it. I am waiting to understand a bit more about the templates used in articles, so while I get my feet wet in that direction, I will add pictures.;) --Flowergirl 10:44, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
Peter, I just read your message to me. Ok, I understand, that instead of uploading pictures directily on the site itself, I go to Wikitravel Shared and u/l them there. Is this a twin of the master site itself?
Does wikiTravel have a direct method of passage to flickr from this site? so as to search for pictures?
Another question, I noticed that within articles, exernal links are numbered. I have always created a word for the xternal, it looks so much more complete.
ex. The story {1} will show when you find the book {2}
I had corrected a few, but stopped, until I receive approval from you. I find that
ex. The story {book} will show when you find the book {store}
In other words, to use words instead of the numbers. I did one or two so if you check my edits, you will see how much nicer the sentences look....However, if this is not used on this wiki, please advise...I want to fix, not mess up.) --Flowergirl 10:52, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
I have d/l through wikitravel shared, but I still have to repeat the u/l inorder to get the link for the pictures....description —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flowergirl (talkcontribs)

More Chicago material

I'm done-ish with the Near North. I need to take some photos, re-write some things (and expand Navy Pier), maybe mention Marina City, and format the hotels, but I don't foresee adding many new listings, unless I happen to stumble across something. I'm satisfied with the range of options for eat and sleep. I need to figure out which of Chicago's theaters are in that area, and I wonder if some/all of the individual River North art dealers should be listed under Buy - if so, I'd have to list them all, since I don't know one from another.) Give it a couple of days, and then map-away.

I'll take a whack at the Understand for the skyline article. I don't think you need a lot there - the pictures speak for themselves ("Really Tall Buildings"). Gorilla Jones 00:24, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! The skyline guide is a terrific idea, the kind that really sets Wikitravel apart from other kinds of travel guides, and I love how you don't set anything out there until it's ready to be useful for a traveler. (There are so many woefully underfed topics around - Architecture, for example.) I'm here for the fun of collaboration, so it's a treat to add to something that's already so well-founded. Gorilla Jones 21:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Mandarmani spam/vandalism

We are extremly shocked that details (Phone,webpage linketc.) is being edited from Article of MANDARMONI each & every time. Could you tell me how & why? we r the best in mandarmoni. Regards The sana Beach —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs)

With pleasure. Your initial edits violated our Wikitravel:Don't tout policy, our Wikitravel:Manual of style, and the rules of English grammar. Moreover, I will add that even this message you have left me manages to violate these three policies. Frankly, because the Mandarmani article is plagued with daily spam/vandalism/touting, I am inclined to revert any edits that are the least bit suspect, but yours were straightforwardly unwelcome. The fact that you childishly vandalized the page for two hours after not getting your way makes me all the more inclined to revert on sight any changes that you may make in the future. --Peter Talk 12:28, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago skyline guide

Very good work! I will be taking it with me next time. 2old 13:51, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for Beijing edits

You fixed a hotel entry on Beijing -- thanks, it's much better now. --Julian Suddaby 22:38, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

With pleasure ;) --Peter Talk 22:45, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

external links

thanks for the encouragement. i went back and checked all the links i added to ensure that they were referencing official sites. since i've only been adding bars and outside town tourist destinations it was fairly easy to ensure that these were not merely promotional outside links. perhaps i shouldn't add any external links at all? Euanthes 05:30, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Far Southwest Side

Only 18,000 characters in one edit? You're slowing down. (Producing a virtually star-quality travel guide for the Far Southwest Side may rank as your most remarkable achievement yet.) As before, let me know if there's any legwork I can do from here. I've been meaning to call the Far Southeast hotels for price and basic descriptions. I'm swamped with work at the moment, but I'm going to try to get a selection of Near North art dealers into that article, so hold off a couple more days on updating the map. Gorilla Jones 11:12, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

No worries about the Near North map update. I figured it needed to percolate a while before going up for a star. (And nobody seems to check the nominations page any more, unfortunately.) What do you think about moving Avondale to the Chicago/Far Northwest Side? I traveled through there this weekend and it's a pretty seamless transition from Avondale to Portage Park with the Polish influence and residential character, whereas I saw less fit with Avondale and the other three Chicago/North Side areas. Gorilla Jones 00:12, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
I missed the non-contiguousness somehow. (It's late.) Yes, that sounds like a good solution. As I expand the Chicago/Far Northwest Side article, I'm finding the O'Hare presence increasingly obtrusive. As it keeps growing, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion as to whether O'Hare should a) stay there, it's fine b) move lock-stock back to the main article (too much content of its own now, I'd assume) c) get its own article (as a few airports do). Gorilla Jones 03:50, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
Well...I don't know. We could split Lakeview and Lincoln Park right now and have both articles usable pretty quickly, if you want. North Center keeps getting swallowed up into this fictional construct called "West Lakeview" by real estate agencies that push the borders of Lakeview further and further west each year. You could anchor a North Center article around trendy bars and restaurants in Roscoe Village, but I'd be inclined to leave it connected to Lakeview until/unless a surplus develops. Old Town is about as distinct from Lincoln Park as North Center is from Lakeview. Would Chicago/Lincoln Park-Old Town and Chicago/Lakeview-North Center work, along the lines of Bridgeport-Chinatown?
As for Avondale, I don't know. I've really only been through there once. Considering there's such a big Polish population there, if someone wanted to make a good article of it, they probably could, but it'd take some time and legwork. I know I won't get to it any time soon, but it'd be easier to do some passing justice to it in the Far Northwest, since the Polish influence keeps going northwest from there into Irving Park, Portage Park, and the rest. (Whereas it definitely doesn't go east into Lakeview or Lincoln Park). Gorilla Jones 00:11, 23 July 2007 (EDT)
Oh, same for me - with this whole project, I'm learning how much I don't know as much as I'm managing to record what I do know. (And I suspect I'd have an even harder time trying to sort out the South Side districts than you would be for the North.) But it's good - I've been away for most of the last four years, so this is a nice way to get re-acquainted with the city. I'll do those North Side splits some time soon. Gorilla Jones 02:26, 23 July 2007 (EDT)
I see the Mandarmani guy is back! You'll sleep well tonight. Gorilla Jones 02:28, 23 July 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter I had a look through the Northland area and realised that you americanos have not much of a clue about our area. I did a few corrections and explanations on Northland The Hokianga is also very hard to tame into cyberspace. It has no cities and often little clusters of houses. For instance the Wairere Valley B&B is not in Horeke (it is in Wairere, just a cluster of about 5 houses) and so is the Mangungu Mission House it is in Ivydale. The templets of Wikitravel do not really suit our circumstances and the system should be a bit more flexible as it is at the moment. What shall I do with the Tui Cottage and the Wairere Valley B&B??

You can also e-mail me on felix at

Cheers Felix —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tramp (talkcontribs)

Hi Peter, thanks for your help so far. I would like to know how to set up the navigation on top of a page. Some of it is wrong, see Hokianga . The Far North is missing between Northland and Hokianga I am working all over the Northland area to set the basics The structure of Northland is as follows

How can I create the navigation on the differnt files (on top of the page) for these places.

Otherwise I think I can manage. I just try to lay down the structure for Northland and than start working on the Far North and Hokianga. That will give me plenty to do beside runnning a farm and a tourism operation.

Where will I get my answer? Is it in my talk? I am pretty new in this game, so if you do not hear from me again please send an e-mail to mailto:[email protected]

Thanks for your help, Felix

Dear Peter, thanks for your help on Navigation. It worked.

I think the bosses of Wikitravel have to do some serious thinking on what goes where. I tried to read up the policies, but there is so much to take in. I have concerns about listings. For instance the Sand Dunes They are a part of Opononi which is part of the Far North which is part of Northland being part of the North Island.

I have listed them in all places, but such procedures will clog up the system. Where should attractions be listed? New Zealand has policies in creating "Highlights" which can be listed in more places than ordinary places. For instance the "Wairere Boulders" are one of the Highlights due to its worldwide importance. If everyone in Northland would list on the North Island page we would get a congestion.

The same with photos! How many times shall the same photo come up. See Horeke Far North Northland North Island. I think it needs a policy or supervisor there as well. Also how many pictures from the same place can be displaied. I coud put in 20 different pics of the Wairere Boulders and if everyone would do that....

Total Chaos

Who makes these policies? I could not find any hints, other than to be reasonable.

Maybe you can help,




Hi Peter, thanks for all the info. I will try to I had a look at the New Zealand page. You asked me to reduce the number of cities to 9

(New Zealand right now has too many—could you help trim the cities and other destinations to 9?). This is very difficut And I would suggest to have 9 per Island. 

To your guidelines to edit details for cities. I had a look at the Bay of Islands page. Someone has put in the description of all the towns instead of opening new pages. It needs correction but I am on 28.8 kbps.... if I am lucky. It happened here

Also I am sorry for my spelling or syntax. My mother tounge is German but luckily Wind Horse is "spying" on me to get it right.

We will ge it right in time, thank you for your help.

Cheers Felix

Lost Site Far North

Hi Peter

I was editing Far North but the page disapeared. Are there any backups, so it can be reloaded. There was a lot of data on it.



Real Cities in NZ


I had a serious discussion with Rita (my wife) about cities in NZ. There are only 3 big cities in NZ. Akl, Wgt, ChCH (Christchurch) 50% of the NZ population lives in these cities. All other places are much smaller. I think it is better if you remove all other cities from the New Zealand page. I do not want to get "lynched" for such an action. All other cities are listed in North Island and South Island which would make sense to me. And just by the way.... I think the Amber House should not be on that page. It should be moved to Nelson.

Hope you had a good time in Baltimore.

I resolved the problem with the Far North page. It came up at my neighbours place, so I cleared my cache and... bingo. Unfortunately I have to reload my cache again which is a darg with 28.8 kbps



Featuring attractions/images

Dear Peter

a remark to the following principle outlined by you.

When deciding what to list (or what to show in photographs) on a given region, common practice is to choose the most prominent (i.e., most visited) attractions/destinations and to try to represent different regions equally.

This is not always appropriate. The Koutu Boulders have never been marketed and are the biggest concretions. The FNDC (council has built parking for tourists so they can be visited. It's new, but fantastic.

The Wairere Boulders are now open about 3 to 4 years and already attracting around 7'000 visitors a year already. It is also new and stunning and just on the verge of getting in into all major tourism guides.

Waitangi an ancient tourism site attracts about 100'000 visitors a year and is one of the better known places.

I personally think that Waitangi is not half as interesting as the two new places. So shall Wikitravel just become another boring edition of AA, Jason or Lonely Planet? Or shall Wikitravel be a site with fresh ideas and include a lot of interesting sites.

I hope that the public will put in all these fantastic and little known places to open up the world to its full potential.

What do you think?


OtBP, content organization, itineraries, and external links

Kia Ora Peter

I agree to remove Gisborne.

Yes I will defend my reasoning when it comes to special places. There are such interesting places in NZ, yet unknown to travelers. We send a lot of people to Omahuta Kauri Sanctuary (one of my next entries) and they all come back and say... why did nobody tell us. The same with the Koutu Boulders. Everyone knows Moeraki, but Koutu is far more spectacular unmatched world wide, yet only a few start to know. The same with the Sculptures on the sand dunes. They are only matched by the Frasier Islands one. And yet very few seem to know. But Hokianga is changing it with its advertisement strategy.

I am not able to do an article about NZ's geological attractions. I do not know them and secondly I am a civil engineer and have studied mainly Swiss geology. I know NZ is full of these fantastic places and I will go and visit them soon. Maybe I should spend less time on Wikitravel and do more real travel. But we often go back to Switzerland to meet family and friends.



Hi Peter,

I will look into the itinerary story, did not know you have a templet (silly me).

I am the author of the Hokianga map, but if you can generate something better by satellite, please do so. As I said, I am on 28.8 kbps, it is as fast as a slug on sand. in a storm. Are you on satellite? If yes, how fast is it? We could get satellite, which is not much faster (70 kbps) and costs a fortune.

I have also realised that someone has linked to a terrilble website in the Bay of Islands and Paihia. Have look at it

  • Find a complete list of all Bay of Islands activities.
  • Paihia Accommodation [2] Full listing of all accommodation in Paihia, backpackers, motels, hotels, campsites, apartments...

He has translated his website with Google and put it on in different languages. As I know German and French too, I can say it is absolutely useless. What does Wikitravel do in such cases?


Asheville map

Hi Peter, as far as maps go, that is the one thing i'm not very experienced with making here on wiki and your help would be appreciated. OnHaywood does a good job with Haywood street which most people consider 'West Asheville', and its boundaries. For Downtown, RomanticAsheville's map is good but a bit short with the boundaries (I would include 240 and a bit of Merrimon to the top), AshevilleNow's is pretty good with the top two-thirds, the bottom third below Hilliard (where the Orange Peel is at, a big draw of visitors) could be left out.. Ooo with more searching I found ExploreAsheville's downtown map to be very good with the boundaries I just described. Hilliard to the south, Charlotte St to the east, 240/bit of Merrimon the the north (also includes the confusing Broadway split), French Broad the the west (and they nicely include a bit to show where Montford is). AVLann 11:37, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

    • I've gone back and rearranged. what do you think now? AVLann 21:25, 15 August 2007 (EDT)


Sorry, for whatever reason it seems like I keep coming up on the opposite side of an argument from you - it's not intentional, I swear! In this case, User:L'Aquatique/Sandpoint,ID was deleted with the comment "page creation vandalism", but as far as I've seen User:L'Aquatique is a legitimate contributor and has added some well-thought out comments on Talk:Pacific Northwest (United States of America). In addition, the page is in a user namespace, and I think we typically leave city outlines alone since users sometimes use their user space as a sandbox. Was there some other problem that led to the page being speedy deleted? -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:55, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Also, just to make sure I wasn't the cause since I've deleted several articles with the comment "page creation trolling", see the discussion on Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy#Page creation vandalism for background. There's a kid in Portland, Maine who for the past two years has showed up and created empty articles, often without even an outline, for tiny places that usually don't meet the "what is an article" criteria. Occasionally he'll then start spamming talk pages with requests for people to "help his articles". The pattern is fairly easy to pick out, and once it's clear that it's him either myself, Todd, Colin, or sometimes another admin will just delete what he's added. In this case the Idaho contributor appears to be a different person. See User talk:Don217 for a list of some of his recent accounts. -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:00, 24 July 2007 (EDT)
...never mind, I see you've restored the article in question. Thanks! -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:01, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago/Near North#Buy

The horror...the horror...


Russian Wikitravel is now unlocked and ready for business. Please sign up for an account there, and let me know what your account name is so I can make you an admin there. Also, see the tasks on shared:Talk:Russian Wikitravel Expedition. This is really exciting -- thanks for taking the first steps with this new language version! --Evan 21:32, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

Near South

Congratulations on the Russian Wikitravel - wish I'd picked up more Russian while traveling there so I could help out.

I'm hoping you know more than I do - what else is there in the Near South? A few things need to be rewritten, but in terms of listings, I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge. Gorilla Jones 22:51, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

St Barthelemy

Dear Peter

I have been adding information to the St Barthelemy page (recently registered as Babath) and have remarked that links to accommodation providors have been removed, as such the accomodation section is now blank.

I can tell you that there is no official or not for profit tourism organisations on the island that will contribute, as such this page will have to rely on business owners to grow.

If this is in violation of Wikitravel rules, I'm afraid the page will die.

Best regards


Deletion of Pictures

I need assistance please. I received a message from someone, who said he removed many of my pictures i added to South Florida, and that they were a copyvio.....I took it from flickr and could not have been a copyvio picture...I want to see what he removed and placed to delete.

Can you assist me please.

Flowergirl 18:16, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

.....Do you still want me to replace those two pictures skyline.jpg and the other one? They will come out as duplicates..;).... Also is it possible to change my user name, and still retain the contribution credits that I earned?

Flowergirl 08:10, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

Based on work by Wikitravel user(s) . . . ..

Hi Peter. Thanks for the welcome.

I've now contributed the page on Obihiro that I have been working on. To my surprise this has been credited (at the bottom of the page) to another user (Based on work by Wikitravel user(s) WindHorse). I wrote to WindHorse about this yesterday but so far received no reply. Can you tell me what I should do in this situation? Thanks. -- Kleinzach 20:59, 1 August 2007 (EDT)


Since I am new to wikitravel, but not new to wiki's in general, I have some questions to ask, and even though I have searched, I cannot find the answer.

Is is possible to use email for learning more, or gmail chat if possible. Somehow I find it difficult to find my way around here, but I do enjoy the site itself, and the few people who have communicated with me for corrections and praise...I enjoy both...

Where can I find an email address to write and learn more. I had also joined in a forum or posting offering my suggestion, but never heard back. And I cannot even find my way back to that posting.;)...It was about not using the numbers, and instead using words or links. I offered my thoughts on it, but somehow I get the feeling that since I am new, I might be ignored..Unless that was only for Admins.

Thank you for a response.

Flowergirl 21:45, 3 August 2007 (EDT)


I enjoy adding pictures and enjoy finding great pictures to use. I just wanted to add a picture to uganda, as the message said, they need pictures badly....However I find maps. Can the maps be removed in lieu of pictures?

while I am not much of a traveler, I am a great editor,writer, and picture adder.;)..

but I have to know what is permitted and what is not. And also where I can be of the most help.

I had been writing Florida, and been filling up the site page with a little helper.;)..I enjoyed that, as it was like a puzzle, fitting the pieces together.

1. where do I find what needs to be done. 2. Where do I find those little tags, that tell a bit about where I come from etc. 3. Any other information that I might need, to really get my feet wet in seems like a very nice site to check in on ....OH, I live in florida, so that is why I started there.

4. Still learning what the formats are for the different areas. While wiki's are all the same editing wise, the formats from each are different.

Thanks Flowergirl 23:31, 3 August 2007 (EDT)


checking out the Cities in florida and noticed a list, almost a 1/2 page long of 'eating' ads. should this amount be allowed?. One of them is an obvious self advertisment from 4 Seasons, where the ad uses the word 'us', referring to themselves. Would I be allowed to remove all such lists, and leave just a few, on all sites? Flowergirl 07:58, 4 August 2007 (EDT)


Congratulations on Star-ifying Chicago/Bronzeville. We've gone through the process, there was zero dissent (unusual for recent Star nominations, incidentally), and time is up, so I just applied the coveted label. Great work by you and Marc. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:48, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Near North and South maps

I've covered the Near South as thoroughly as I can; I only found a very small handful of other listings, none of which seemed to warrant inclusion. I might take a walk down there next weekend to see if I'm missing anything. And I'm willing to call a cease-fire on new Near North listings whenever you say so; I work down there, so every once in a while I notice or hear about something new, but I think it's covered pretty thoroughly as is - it's probably on the verge of overload. So go ahead and map the Near North - if you want to hold off on the Near South, that's fine. It can't go up for star until it has some photos, anyway. (And the Loop isn't close to ready.) How is the Southwest coming? Gorilla Jones 22:31, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

OK. I've got just a couple more listings for the Near South and I'll start putting them in now. (Like an old tube of toothpaste, there's always a little more to be found if you roll it up tightly enough.) The West Side badly needs to be split, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't leave the Far West off on its own as a permanent outline (at least until you start pounding the pavement there). I'd like to split the Far North, too, but I'd prefer to gather some more listings first, and wait until the article starts to feel unwieldy - we'll never get the whole city to a star if we keep splitting guides into usables. Gorilla Jones 22:17, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
Done with new listings in the Near South. Gorilla Jones 22:54, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
The listing for Grant Park should definitely go in the Loop. I don't think there's any sense in trying to figure out what parts are in the Loop and what parts are in the Near South. If I haven't already, I'll include mentions in both articles of how big it is and how it basically stretches up to the Museum Campus. Gorilla Jones 23:13, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
Sweet! Descriptive photos and a shiny map, too. Take a pass at the text, if you like. I plan to do a do a quick rewrite tonight myself and then put it up for nomination. (No new listings, though, cross my heart...) Gorilla Jones 17:06, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Sheki Map

Peter, I just e-mailed the Norwegian embassy today and I will let you know if they can fulfill the request.Cupcakecommander 03:12, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

Peter, here is the letter from the Norwegian embassy's charge d'affairs,

Dear Josh

It is a pleasure to inform you that you are welcome to use this map for the Wilkitravel web page. We would expect you to provide a citation for the source of the map. Otherwise, we wish you good luck in your work!

Richard Scarborough Chargé d'Affaires a.i. Royal Norwegian Embassy in Baku

I think that this is enough to create our own version, right? Thanks! Cupcakecommander 01:56, 13 August 2007 (EDT)


My name is Joshua Noonan and I am a US Peace Corps Volunteer in Sheki, Azerbaijan working at CHF International. I am currently active in writing the Sheki travel guide for Wikitravel and I would like to have explicit permission to use the map that is in the Norwegian sponsored Sheki Girdman guide on to use as a base image for a derivative work that would be freely usable by anyone for this site I have sent the scanned copy in this e-mail. With your help, we will be able to make the on-line guide for Sheki of the best quality. We are currently using per the Embassy's permission a scanned copy of the map, but we would like to create a Wikitravel version. Thanks so much for your help!

-- Josh Noonan Cupcakecommander 02:15, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Could I just e-mail it to you? It would be easeir to send a high resolution image that way. Cupcakecommander 02:22, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
The image has been uploaded as Sheki Map.jpg. Tell me if you have any problems! Cupcakecommander 03:31, 13 August 2007 (EDT)


I look at that page once and a while. Very good work! Forgive me please for being nosey, but what is your interest in those type of buildings? [3]? 2old 13:06, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

Gourmand cafe

You did that to yourself.

Any interest in grabbing this CTA map from [Wikimedia Commons]? It's licensed under CC 2.5. Or do you reckon you could do a nicer one? Gorilla Jones 20:09, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

West Side

I think I would actually find it easier to bring the West Side articles up to par if they were split. Although further divisions may occur in the future, would it be geographically ridiculous to divide it in two? My first idea is

  • West Town (Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Bucktown) + Logan Square
  • Near West Side (Little Italy, Greektown, the West Loop, University of Illinois at Chicago, United Center, Maxwell Street) + Far West Side

I'm not sure which side gets Pilsen under that scenario. Gorilla Jones 20:51, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

OK. I'll go with the separate-out scenario and see where that takes me. Your input will be valuable on the Lower West Side article! Gorilla Jones 00:39, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
Reckon I'm done with the Near South. Added one new listing - Marshall Field Jr's Mansion. Last time I was there, plans were underway to tear it down, but I stumbled across a page listing it as a new residential property, so I couldn't resist throwing that lurid tale in there. Sorry for sending you back to the map one more time. Gorilla Jones 02:38, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
Oh, if you've never been, make tracks when you're back in town. The Division Street baths are awesome. (I could have happily rambled about them for several lines more, but risked incurring the wrath of our friend on-the-Hill.) I think it's BYOB, and the small food-stand only serves fast food, but I could be wrong. Guys definitely make a good, long day of it, though. Gorilla Jones 11:47, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for your welcome message

Hi Peter,

I'm not from Utah, I was there for a month some years ago. I'm very excited by the WikiTravel project. My mother language is french, but I have decided to contribute to the english version. The world is now a village and we can share more information if we all write the same language. My wife and me have been in various countries those last years. I intend to spend the next weeks giving some information about travelling in Queensland, New South Wales, Taiwan, Canada and European countries.



Peter, I noticed your name at the bottom of the Zheleznogorsk/Krasnoyarsk-26 page. I'm curious to where the information on that page came from, and if there is anything else you know about it. I'm generally very interested in these closed cities (am Russian myself). Perhaps a stupid question, but could a person somehow enter this city just as a 'tourist', just to look around?


Hey I'm glad you enjoyed the article! The bulk of the travel-relevant information came from the US Government Nuclear Cities Initiative. I'm also quite interested in the closed cities, but unfortunately, the cities are fully closed to everyone, both Russian and foreign, unless you have a government authorized invitation from an agency in the town. So basically, можно только на командировку ;) It's a shame, Zheleznogorsk seems like a particularly interesting closed city. There are some formerly closed cities, however, that have recently been opened. I had fun in Krondshtadt recently; the people living there were very surprised to talk to a Westerner! --Peter Talk 22:23, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply! Звучит очень интиресно, Кронштадт - в Ленинградской Области? I lived in St Petersburg for 7 years when I was younger, but never heard a lot about Kronshtadt (first time I hear it was ever closed actually). Definatley another place to visit when I go back there :)

Actually, now that you mention it, I think Kronshtadt may have been closed only to foreigners. In any rate it is a nice half-day trip from St Petersburg to see the Морской собор and to look at the warships off the pier. --Peter Talk 13:22, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Lincoln Square

Wondering if you think it's bad practice that I slipped Albany Park & North Park into the Lincoln Square article but retained the Lincoln Square name for the whole thing. I couldn't think of a decent name to cover the three ("Northwest Side" might beg the question of why West Ridge was being excluded, but that should be grouped with Rogers Park). They make a nice bunch, being the back end of the Brown Line and connected by Lincoln Avenue, but LS has way more attractions than the other two (which many north siders haven't even heard of). I think Chicago/Lincoln Square-Albany Park would be an ugly file name so I wanted to avoid it. Whaddya think? Either way, I should have it ready for mapping in a day or two. Gorilla Jones 23:52, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

It's always possible that more listings will emerge, but the Chicago/Lincoln Square article is ready for mapping. It covers a lot of ground with listings concentrated into a few, small spaces, so you might try a more sectional approach. (Or not. You're much better at this than me.) Gorilla Jones 18:36, 14 August 2007 (EDT)
Yup, that works. I renamed the article, by the way, inspired by your South Chicago Shore initiative, because the other two neighborhoods had become too important to the article to leave behind. Since Lincoln Avenue is a (or the) central thoroughfare for all three, and since they're the northernmost areas of it, voila... Chicago/North Lincoln is born. Gorilla Jones 17:00, 22 August 2007 (EDT)
That portion is simply Lincoln Square. Gorilla Jones 20:57, 23 August 2007 (EDT)
Great North Lincoln maps! After all that work to gather the listings, it's such a pleasure to see them together on a map. For orientation purposes, would it be possible to indicate Giddings Plaza on the map? Gorilla Jones 15:21, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

Charlotte Map

Sorry about taking so long to get back to you on this subject. Summertime is hectic and I honestly hadn't checked my talk page in a couple of weeks. Regarding a district map: The best online map I have found is here: The only downside is that it's limited to the central neighborhoods, but that's not too much of a problem since the outer districts can generally be done by zip code. Another complication is that in Charlotte, infill areas are rather large and uninteresting to visitors. I don't know how that works on a district map, but I will say that the majority of the neighborhoods on the map I linked to, are not going to be worth labeling.

The areas with Wikipedia district articles are linked to the following numbers on the map:

South End - 15, 14, 72 Dilworth - 66 Myers Park - 63, 65 Elizabeth - 54 Plaza-Midwood - 50 Uptown - Use this map: SouthPark - General area around Sharon & Fairview Rd. University City - ZIP code 28262 Ballantyne - ZIP code 28277

I'll come back and update this entry if I can find anything else that would help. bruinsbuddy42 11:51 18 August 2007

New page

I want to be able to create a new region, or forest. I have just tried in Florida, to create a new Forest. However How do I get this information beneath the Title itself. Tallahassee From Wikitravel North America : United States of America : Florida : Florida Panhandle : Middle Florida : TallahasseeFlowergirl 10:24, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Southwest confusion

You should consider putting something in the Southwest article. Whether it's an insta-guide or not is up to you, and it can always be changed/re-arranged later, but you have a ton of quality listings in there, and it's more likely to attract contributions from new users there than it is in your sandbox. (While you were away on vacation, I thought about moving it myself in order to encourage the anon user who added a couple of listings of his own accord.) Gorilla Jones 00:02, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Beautiful. Gorilla Jones 01:27, 27 August 2007 (EDT)
 ;) --Peter Talk 01:30, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Sheki Weekend Itinerary

I just finished the Sheki Weekend Itinerary. Please let me know what you think. I will start working on the week itinerary probably this week. Cupcakecommander 06:11, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Let's see.. The entries on the map that are missing in the guide are either non-existent, like the movie theater (it was demolished a couple of years ago), non-functional, like all but one of the bath houses, or unaccessible, like the "Albanian Church" in the middle of town (it is a warehouse for school number 5). Tea houses.. They really don't have names usually, are quite nondescript, and there are so many; it is hard to walk 5 minutes without seeing one. The best one is a bit expensive, but I made a note of it in the itinerary- near the palace of the Sheki Khans. I will try to format the itinerary a bit better, and stick some pictures in it. Cupcakecommander 01:41, 28 August 2007 (EDT)
The Albanian church is inside the school grounds and it serves as a warehouse. Like 3 of the 4 bathhouses do not function. The one that does is quite dirty (I've been there once). I will make the markings for the tea houses, although it doesn't seem necessary as there is a plethora of them.


thank you very much for your encouragement! The idea to work on Bulgaria came to me after just getting back from a two-week holiday in that country. I have plenty of notes, but, of course, I have noticed that there is already an excellent version in English. I hope to be able to add some more stuff to the cities and regions (and probably complement the English with some new info). I might even add some small tit-bits to the English, and then expand the Spanish. In any case, I am unfamiliar with the copyright issues. Am I to attribute explicitly the English contributors? How is that done? Any other suggestions? All the best, --DavidSaldanaSage 09:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)