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User talk:OVK

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It's not often these days that I get to welcome a brand new administrator on the English variety of Wikitravel - so it's a double pleasure - especially since it is obvious from your edits today that you already know the ropes!

Indeed, perhaps you could give me some tips, Otso?

I've searched for you over on the Finnish and Swedish varieties of Wikitravel but couldn't locate you; perhaps you could tell me what User names(s) you use there and/or modify your User page here, Otso?

Keep warm! --W. Franke-mailtalk 10:32, 20 October 2012 (EDT)

Thank you for your warm welcome Frank! Regarding the Finnish and Swedish versions my User name is the same, but those ones are still of minor priority compared to the English one.
I would also want to express my admiration on your efforts on this site. When I first started browsing the site your name came up quite a lot and all of it has been really positive. You are a great asset to the community and I'll make sure to pass on a good word for you. (= --OVK 04:50, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
I've noticed you often use the same (defective) phrase on your prolific anti-touting edit summaries:
"Listing looks like an add, please read our policies in listings and touting"
Since I assume you are pasting this edit summary, a slightly more informative effort might be internally linked thus:
Listing looks like an advert; please read our policies and don't tout!
Best regards! --singaporeAlice 02:29, 28 November 2012 (EST)
Hello there Alice, you are absolutely right. I was planning to do that but it just slipped my mind somehow.. anyways thank you very much your contributions are a great asset to this website!
Warm regards from cold Finland --OVK 02:35, 28 November 2012 (EST)
Happy New Year and I hope this next one is more prosperous than the last! -- 05:43, 31 December 2012 (EST)
Thank you, may yours be prosperous as well! --OVK 07:47, 31 December 2012 (EST)

Excellent work

Just wanted to say your work as an administrator has been noticed and appreciated. Very glad to have you aboard :) --IBobi 15:44, 14 January 2013 (EST)

Thank you very much! --OVK 06:45, 15 January 2013 (EST)
As you didn't realize I'm travelling and commenting on the places I like and don't like. Adding all that I visited so thank you for removing my data that you didn't like. I have some more maybe you would like to check and remove those also?
I'm sorry, have I missed something? Did I delete some of your edits? Which one? and please write into my talk/discussion page instead on my user page. I will change this into the talk page after your reply. Cheers! --OVK 07:48, 31 December 2012 (EST)

Closed restaurant removed again

Good day. Please see reply to your comment and edit at [1]. I have again removed the listing for a restaurant that closed. Thanks. Infrogmation 18:33, 11 January 2013 (EST)

Thank you here as well, I missed the edit summary for some reason and therefore misjudged the edit --OVK 03:30, 20 January 2013 (EST)

Rasht & Gorgan

Hello Osto, thank u for ur helpful notices about Rasht, But I wrote my reason at Talk:Rasht for both Rasht and Gorgan pages. Please review it. And about Gorgan page; Excuse me about signatures. I really had many attempts to get transport prices. Couldn't you only remove my signs? Regards Blacksmith 11:42, 19 January 2013 (EST)

Oh wow, that place was a bit far away from that page! Thank you for that good edit! Also the reason why I did not simply remove your signs was to let you know that you should not add them, each one teach one type of thing --OVK 03:32, 20 January 2013 (EST)

About the Tsushima page

Not sure exactly the way to do this as I am a new user here. I did copy information from the wikiJET page about Tsushima. However, I am the person who updates most of the information on that page and typed much of it myself, so I believe it's fair to allow me to save time by not having to rewrite all of that material. I am a JET program participant currently living on Tsushima and can provide documentation to prove this fact if necessary. In addition, you deleted several points that were not copied from the site at all. I kindly petition to have you reinstate the changes I made to the Tsushima page. Increasing English-speaking awareness about Tsushima is a task given to me by Tsushima city hall. I would greatly appreciate your assistance in this matter. Thanks, jedi423 17:20 JST January 23, 2013

Hi Jedi423! Thanks for your post and willingness to improve our Tsushima page. The information on WT can only be copied if we attribute it to the original source, (that is not a practice here on Wikitravel) AND if the source has the same license we have. I would need to ask you to rewrite the information so it is not a word-for-word copy. Your contribution would be highly appreciated and valuable to our English-speaking users. If you need any help, please let us know by writing on Travellers' pub or you can reach me directly on my user page.
Also, feel free to sign your posts by using the following wiki markup ~~~~. Warm regards,

IBAlex 15:33, 23 January 2013 (EST)

Dear Otoso 1)Touting Question) Is Tripadvisor -independant- Rating touting? & if so why?

2) Thank you for Erasing 'content from another site'. I was solicited by Tripadvisor Editors (Volunteers Like yourselves) to update Pemberton Tourism Info'. I did so. I wrote the content I have the legal right & hold copyright to, so I can repost that content!!!'content from another site' phrase implies I`m plagerizing, I`m not plagerizing. I am only re- posting data that is mine!!! This is useful info & can be literally life saving -most of our police only speak English a few French. Our Tourism Centre is only open a few months of the year. This year they only hired unilinguial staff. For both those reasons I published a list of contacts via email & telephone of volunteers who can answer questions for tourists including those in emegencies, in many major EU & Asian Languages...

3) Multiple listings: Pedantic mis-interperation of your own rules. In this building is a hotel,& currently 5 other businesses, more if another space is leased. Each business is separately owned. Its a rediculious contention that if the Hotel is listed under Sleep that the restaurant, we do not own or have any financial intrest in, cannot be listed under Eat.

4)Defective Search Engine: Your Search Engine is Non-Intuitive & Defective.

Pemberton ( British Columbia )is the only syntax acepted everything else is not found:

Pls somebody add these alternates: Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC, Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC Canada or CA or CND, same uncapitalized in small fonts pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc, pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc canada or ca or cnd etc.

The text above is copied from my user main page to here posted by User:PemGateway

==Answers to some questions== Reposted byUser:PemGateway

Hello there PemGateway, I just wanted to post here some replies to the questions you posted (transferred them to appropriate place on my talk page instead of the user main page).

1. TripAdvisor, it falls to the category of external linking more specifically into avoid linking hotel/restaurant reviews and guides as you can see in the Wikitravel:External_links page as the links should point to primary sources.

I read thoroughly the policies and as mentioned above, WT tries to avoid references to third-party ratings and rankings unless they are truly exceptional [2]. In this case, I'm tempted to say that we can accept this reference because you wrote specifically for which period of time the nomination was granted and you gave detailed explanation why the hotel is so great. Here is the link to the policy about it [3]. I know that all the policies might sound overwhelming to you but this is all done for the Traveler's benefit. Believe me, there are many people who insert secondary links and promotional information that's why we try to be strict about External links policies.

2. About erasing the content which was used in other pages. I would like to refer to the advice User:IBAlex gave on my talk page The information on WT can only be copied if we attribute it to the original source, (that is not a practice here on Wikitravel) AND if the source has the same license we have. I would need to ask you to rewrite the information so it is not a word-for-word copy of course all this information is highly appreciated in the page, but we have some rules that need following.

I am afraid to say that TripAdvisor has a different license than the wikis, including Wikitravel. The content that is over there is proprietary to TripAdvisor and users who write there agree not to (...) copy, distribute (...) create derivative works from, (...) or through this Website. That is why we cannot have content from TripAdvisor on Wikitravel, even thought I believe you that you are the original author.

3. On multiple listings; as stated in the Don't tout page, exceptions can be made case-by-case, if in fact the organisation in question has a separate business under its own name and the route to this leads trough the page's talk section where these decisions are made by the community.

4. Here is the answer to the last issue [4].

Please do message me on my talk page. --OVK 04:34, 27 January 2013 (EST)

I really hope this helps:) Again, we would love to see you contributing on Wikitravel! Warm regards, IBAlex 14:16, 29 January 2013 (EST)

Comments to Answers

Thank you for answering some of my questions.

As to question 4) I added a ``Pemberton ( British Columbia )````  to the Whistler page as a small fix.

But with all due respect your Search engine is defective. How in the hell are people to Know that they must use caps, fulll name of province in brackets etc. 40% of all internet searches for our neighbour is 'whistler bc' all smalls. The search needs to work common snytax too!!!

PS I strongly suggest concordense: there is no [Talk ]] button! With all due respect, again, I suggest ASAP the Discussion button is replaced with a Talk button. Logic would entail Talk taking one to Talk & not another button.

Original Question below. 4)Defective Search Engine: Your Search Engine is Non-Intuitive & Defective.

Pemberton ( British Columbia )is the only syntax acepted everything else is not found:

Pls somebody add these alternates: Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC, Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC Canada or CA or CND, same uncapitalized in small fonts pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc, pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc canada or ca or cnd etc.

Edit Reverts

You recently whole-sale reverted my edits on Sunriver (Oregon) for the reason "Listings added multiple times". Granted, I'm new here, but I do not understand your reason for reverting, much less how my revisions in any way violated any kind of Wikitravel policy. In my work, I've referred specifically to Colorado's Wine Country, a Previously Off the Beaten Path article as a guide for the way the Sunriver article could look, not to mention the numerous policy pages. Could you please enlighten me on what I did wrong, because I must have missed the boat to have contributed nothing worth keeping --Nick2253 17:28, 11 March 2013 (EDT)

Hi Nick! I put your edits back on the Sunriver (Oregon) as they look good to me:) I am sure Otso will reply to you soon.
Thank you for your contributions! Please keep it up, don't be discouraged by this small misunderstanding! IBAlex 19:23, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
First of all let me say sorry for reverting these edits, they are really good edits. The undoing was a complete mistake by my part as I might have been looking into another page and reverted your edit instead of that, again sorry. I tend to open multiple pages when I'm looking trough the changes tho this has yet to happen before. Anyway the edits were good and solid than you for sharing your information on Wikitravel! --OVK 01:48, 12 March 2013 (EDT)
Hey, no harm, no foul! Thanks for getting back to me. I'm, in general, a pretty experienced wiki editor, and I was scratching my head, going "What the *&(# did I actually do wrong!? I'm pretty sure I followed the rules. I mean, huh?" --Nick2253 04:28, 15 March 2013 (EDT)


As you already know, many admins that were formerly active here at Wikitravel have left for pastures new in the last year.

Although IBadmins fight a heroic battle against spam, I believe we need more admins from the community.

Would you support my application to be an admin?

I believe I know current polices as well as anyone currently active. --118dot93dot73dot30 02:18, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

copied content?

All of it?


From where? --118dot93dot73dot30 10:13, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

Yes all of it as far as I check (pretty much the whole thing) was from wikipedia/visitmeteora/etc.. --OVK (talk) 10:17, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
I presume you mean - or do you mean somewhere else?
Technically, under most jurisdictions' copyright laws (including where Wikitravel's servers are hosted) it is not an infringement to copy material from Wikipedia (which basically has the same licence as us) provided attribution is given. Attribution can be as simple as mentioning in the edit summary the URL of the revision that it was copied from.
I do agree that we should make every effort to have our own content, but this particular edit of yours I regard as quite sloppy since it excised both my own work and that of other editors along with some plagiarised material.
More substantively, I cannot see the following material at Wikipedia. Where do you think this was copied from? (Please try to be as precise as possible):

The Active Monasteries

Serene, spiritual, magical, mystical, extraordinary, breathtaking, immense, inspiring, impressive… These are only some of the words people very often use in an effort to describe the Meteora phenomenon.

A trip to Meteora offers the unique experience of nature’s grandeur in conjunction with history, architecture and man’s everlasting desire to connect with the Divine. From the early Christian times, the Meteora vertical cliffs were regarded as the perfect place to achieve absolute isolation, to discover peace and harmony and, thus, to support man’s eternal struggle for spiritual elevation.

Meteora is a truly inspiring and sensational setting of overwhelming rock formations, but one must also be prepared to expect that this trip is much more than merely visiting an exquisite landscape. It is a pilgrimage to a holy place for all Christians around the world. Meteora has become a preservation ark for the 2000-year-old Christian Orthodox creed.

The gigantic rocks of Meteora are perched above the town of Kalambaka, at a maximum height of 400 m (1200 ft). The most interesting summits are decorated with historical monasteries, included in the World Heritage List of Unesco. Only 6 of them have made it through the centuries, from an initial estimated number of 24. Mostly dating to the 14th and until the 16th century, these monasteries were built by monks who were previously hermits in the area, living in individual caves. Once united, these monks took months and years to carry the construction material to the top of rocks, using ropes, folding ladders, nets and baskets, and with much determination.

The monasteries were not originally built for tourism. Tourism, essential to the monasteries survival, has also destroyed their character. They are no longer contemplative.

The following monasteries can be visited and are located nearby the road circuiting Meteora. The entrance fee for all of the monasteries is (as of spring 2013) 3 €.

Great Meteoron Monastery

The Holy Monastery of Great Meteoro (Transfiguration of Jesus) is the biggest and oldest one of all, dating back to the 14th century. It was called the monastery that was “suspended in the air” (meteoro), because of the formation of the gigantic rock on top of which it was built. Once you’ve reached the summit, a rewarding view awaits you and the monastery calls for exploration.

The main cathedral in its central courtyard is embellished with beautiful 16th century frescoes. Take time to gaze at the artistic details of some of the best samples of Greek Byzantine art and then rush to the museum, where historical codices and religious icons of high value are on display.

Take a look inside the old refectory of the monks, where part of an original 16th century table is preserved, with the original cutleries on it. Don’t forget to take a glance at the monastery’s old kitchen on your way out, still black with smoke, with the original bread oven and soup hearth.

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:00 to 17:00 and is closed on Tuesdays.

Holy Trinity Monestery

The Monastery of Holy Trinity is the most difficult to reach, but once you get to the very top, the panoramic view of the surroundings is simply captivating! Visitors have to follow a pathway that directs them initially to the foot of the rock, before they start walking up about 140 steps.

The monastery’s main cathedral was constructed in the 15th century and decorated with frescoes in 1741 by two monks. Visit this monastery for the adventurous ascent, the striking view and its peculiar architecture. Part of the Monastery was used as the setting for the final scenes of the James Bond film For Your Eyes Only.

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:00 to 15:00 and is closed on Thursdays.

Roussanou Monastery

The Holy Monastery of Roussanou has received the name of the first probable hermit who settled on the rock. The main cathedral, celebrating the memory of Santa Barbara, was founded at the end of the 16th century and was decorated thirty years later. Compared to other rocks where monasteries were built, the one of Roussanou has a lower elevation, which makes it more accessible.

The monastery was initially founded by monks and it suffered severe damage during World War II. It became a convent in 1988. Visit Roussanou for a different view of the surrounding rocks and adjacent monasteries. Follow the pathway from this monastery to the upper main road and discover an off-the-road spot that allows you to walk on the bear rocks!

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:00 to 18:00 and is closed on Wednesdays.

St. Nikolaos Anapafsas Monastery

This monastery’s name refers to Saint Nicholas who is “eternally asleep” (Anapafsas). This is the smallest monastery of all and is quite peculiarly built on a rock with a restricted surface area. This explains the construction of three floors.

The very small and interesting main cathedral contains a sanctuary that is built against the natural rock! The frescoes of the main room exhibit the first artistic steps of one of the most reputed 16th-century Cretan painters, Ioannis Strelitzas. The fresco that portrays Adam naming the animals is unrepeated around Greece. No doubt will you find this monastery most impressive! Its big asset is the fifteen-minute walking distance from the village of Kastraki.

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:00 to 17:00 and is closed on Fridays.

Varlaam Monastery

The Holy Monastery of Varlaam is the second biggest one and its main cathedral dates to the 16th century. Its inner walls are painted by three different artists, one of them (Francos Katellanos) amongst the most renowned Byzantine artists of his time. This is the monastery where you can visit the tower of the old preserved net, used by the first monks for their ascent and descent from the rock, until it was “God’s will to have it replaced”!

A very large and impressive 16th century oak barrel for water storage is also not to be missed. The old refectory has been turned into a museum, where visitors can admire the excellence of religious painted icons – mostly contemporary to the Renaissance period – and precious holy vestments of the priests.

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:00 to 16:00 and is closed on Fridays.

St. Stephen's Monastery

This is the most accessible monastery, where instead of steps you simply cross a small bridge to reach the entrance. It is ideal for visitors who cannot use the steps and yet they wish to have a real experience of a Meteora monastery. St. Stephen’s Monastery includes two cathedrals; the old 16th century chapel which was severely damaged during WWII and the consequent Greek Civil War, and the 18th century main cathedral that is dedicated to Saint Charalambos and includes his holy relics.

Most monasteries, such as this one, include the holy relics of their saints or founders in their main cathedrals. Visit this convent for the spectacular view towards the vast valley of Thessaly, the river Pinios and the Pindos mountain range across the plain, but also because of the old cathedral, where the marks of bullets on religious icons witness the dark chapters of the Modern Greek history.

  • Visiting hours and days (as of spring 2013): The monastery is open from 09:30 to 13:30 and from 15:30 to 17:30 and is closed on Mondays.

The Ruined Monasteries

By the late 16th century the Meteora monastic community included a total number of 24 active monasteries. By that time most of the small hermitages, like the one of Doupiani, had almost been abandoned, since the new idea for the formation of larger monastic brotherhoods prevailed. The monasteries would offer opportunities for the improvement of daily life conditions and the resolution of problems, mostly centred around the oppressive nature of the Ottoman dominion and the harsh persecutions of Christians.

In the mid-17th century the Meteora monastic community gradually started to decline. Within the next two centuries many of the Monasteries and hermitages were totally ruined, either due to the destruction by the Ottomans, or they were eventually abandoned by the monks and, thus, deserted. The long process of decline lasted until the early 20th century, until several monks arriving at the Meteora area from Mount Athos began to repopulate the few remaining monasteries.

A huge restoration and renovation project was then initiated, in order to preserve the unique cultural and historical heritage of Meteora. Today, apart from the well-known 6 monasteries, a number of hermitages and small abandoned monasteries have also been restored.

The Byzantine church of Virgin Mary

Situated in the old districts of Kalambaka, this early christian church from the 6th or 7th century is dedicated to the Dormition of Virgin Mary. It is a must-see church, not only for its age and precious 11th century Byzantine frescoes, but also because of the construction material of its walls. Relics of an ancient Greek temple dedicated to God Apollo have been embedded in the wall. In its interior one can also pay attention to the older mosaic floor that is revealed in specific spots beneath the current floor. This is definitely one of the most precious early Christian basilicas around Greece.

Theopetra’s Prehistoric Cave

The most extraordinary, “God sent” (theopetra) cave in the area! Located at a distance of approximately 5 km from Kalambaka, the gigantic limestone rock in the middle of the flat lands, called ‘Theopetra’ by the locals, was formed long before the Meteora rocks (65 000 000 years ago). The most fascinating part of this rock is a cave of 500 m2 surface area, where history meets prehistory. The cave’s footprints of Homo Neanderthalensis, dating to 130 000 years ago, are some of the oldest human footprints around the world! In situ burials of Paleolithic and Neolithic men, as well as indications of man’s efforts to experiment with clay are more than overwhelming. This is the only cave around the area of Thessaly and among the few ones in Greece, where continuous historical layers ranging from the Middle Stone Age until the Neolithic period (3000 BC) have been traced.

Please note that I am not saying you are wrong about this being plagiarised material too - just that I can not find the source. Can you? --118dot93dot73dot30 16:31, 19 April 2013 (EDT)