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Here you can find the [[User talk:OVK/Archive|archived discussions]] from my talk page. Cleaned 28.11.2013
It's not often these days that I get to '''welcome''' a brand new administrator on the English variety of Wikitravel - so it's a double pleasure - especially since it is obvious from your edits today that you already know the ropes!
Indeed, [ perhaps you could give me some tips, Otso?]
I've searched for you over on the Finnish and Swedish varieties of Wikitravel but couldn't locate you; perhaps you could tell me what User names(s) you use there and/or modify your User page here, Otso?
Keep warm! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 10:32, 20 October 2012 (EDT)
:Thank you for your warm welcome Frank! Regarding the Finnish and Swedish versions my User name is the same, but those ones are still of minor priority compared to the English one.
:I would also want to express my admiration on your efforts on this site. When I first started browsing the site your name came up quite a lot and all of it has been really positive. You are a great asset to the community and I'll make sure to pass on a good word for you. (= --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 04:50, 21 October 2012 (EDT)
::I've noticed you often use the same (defective) phrase on your prolific anti-touting edit summaries:
::"''Listing looks like an add, please read our policies in listings and touting''"
::Since I assume you are '''pasting''' this edit summary, a slightly more informative effort might be internally linked thus:
::[[Listing]] looks like an [[advert]]; please read our [[Wikitravel:Welcome,_business_owners|policies]] and don't [[tout]]!
::Best regards! --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 02:29, 28 November 2012 (EST)
:::Hello there Alice, you are absolutely right. I was planning to do that but it just slipped my mind somehow.. anyways thank you very much your contributions are a great asset to this website!
:::Warm regards from cold Finland --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 02:35, 28 November 2012 (EST)
::::Happy New Year and I hope this next one is more prosperous than the last! --[[Special:Contributions/|]] 05:43, 31 December 2012 (EST)
:::::Thank you, may yours be prosperous as well! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 07:47, 31 December 2012 (EST)
Dear OVK,
I had changed the links in the page of Mallorca because it is a competitor, the only official guide center in Mallorca is, the one you have in the page of Mallorca is just 1 single guide. best regards
Dear Ovk,
I am primerafull,
I have changed the link to the official web site for the colegio de guias, the only official site, you can check it, thank you
== Excellent work ==
Just wanted to say your work as an administrator has been noticed and appreciated. Very glad to have you aboard :) --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:44, 14 January 2013 (EST)
:Thank you very much! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 06:45, 15 January 2013 (EST)
:As you didn't realize I'm travelling and commenting on the places I like and don't like. Adding all that I visited so thank you for removing my data that you didn't like. I have some more maybe you would like to check and remove those also?
::I'm sorry, have I missed something? Did I delete some of your edits? Which one? and please write into my talk/discussion page instead on my user page. I will change this into the talk page after your reply. Cheers! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 07:48, 31 December 2012 (EST)
==Closed restaurant removed again==
Good day. Please see reply to your comment and edit at []. I have again removed the listing for a restaurant that closed. Thanks. [[User:Infrogmation|Infrogmation]] 18:33, 11 January 2013 (EST)
:Thank you here as well, I missed the edit summary for some reason and therefore misjudged the edit --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 03:30, 20 January 2013 (EST)
==Rasht & Gorgan==
Hello Osto, thank u for ur helpful notices about Rasht, But I wrote my reason at [[Talk:Rasht]] for both Rasht and Gorgan pages. Please review it. And about Gorgan page; Excuse me about signatures. I really had many attempts to get transport prices. Couldn't you only remove my signs? Regards [[User:Blacksmith|Blacksmith]] 11:42, 19 January 2013 (EST)
:Oh wow, that place was a bit far away from that page! Thank you for that good edit! Also the reason why I did not simply remove your signs was to let you know that you should not add them, each one teach one type of thing --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 03:32, 20 January 2013 (EST)
== About the Tsushima page ==
Not sure exactly the way to do this as I am a new user here. I did copy information from the wikiJET page about Tsushima. However, I am the person who updates most of the information on that page and typed much of it myself, so I believe it's fair to allow me to save time by not having to rewrite all of that material. I am a JET program participant currently living on Tsushima and can provide documentation to prove this fact if necessary. In addition, you deleted several points that were not copied from the site at all. I kindly petition to have you reinstate the changes I made to the Tsushima page. Increasing English-speaking awareness about Tsushima is a task given to me by Tsushima city hall. I would greatly appreciate your assistance in this matter.
Thanks, [[User:Jedi423|jedi423]]
17:20 JST January 23, 2013
:Hi Jedi423! Thanks for your post and willingness to improve our [[Tsushima]] page. The information on WT can only be copied if we attribute it to the original source, (that is not a practice here on Wikitravel) AND if the source has the same license we have. I would need to ask you to rewrite the information so it is not a word-for-word copy. Your contribution would be highly appreciated and valuable to our English-speaking users. If you need any help, please let us know by writing on [[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub| Travellers' pub]] or you can reach me directly on my [[User talk:IBAlex| user page]].
: Also, feel free to sign your posts by using the following wiki markup <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. Warm regards,
[[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 15:33, 23 January 2013 (EST)
Dear Otoso
1)Touting  Question) Is Tripadvisor -independant- Rating touting? & if so why?
2) Thank you for Erasing  'content from another site'.  I was solicited by Tripadvisor Editors (Volunteers Like yourselves) to update Pemberton Tourism Info'. I did so. I wrote the content I have the legal right & hold copyright to, so I can repost that content!!!'content from another site' phrase implies I`m plagerizing, I`m not plagerizing. I am only re- posting data that is mine!!! This is useful info & can be literally life saving -most of our police only speak English a few French. Our Tourism Centre is only open  a few months of the year. This year they only hired unilinguial staff. For both those reasons I published a list of contacts via email & telephone of volunteers who can answer questions for tourists including those in emegencies, in many major EU & Asian Languages...
3) Multiple listings: Pedantic mis-interperation of your own rules. In this building is a hotel,& currently 5 other businesses, more if another space is leased. Each business is separately owned. Its a rediculious contention that if the Hotel is listed under Sleep that the restaurant, we do not own or have any financial intrest in, cannot be listed under Eat. 
4)Defective Search Engine: Your Search Engine is Non-Intuitive & Defective.
Pemberton ( British Columbia )is the only syntax acepted everything else is not found:
Pls  somebody add these alternates:  Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC, Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC Canada or CA or CND, same uncapitalized in small fonts pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc, pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc canada or ca or cnd etc.
''The text above is copied from my user main page to here posted by [[User:PemGateway]]''
==Answers to some questions== Reposted by[[User:PemGateway]]
Hello there PemGateway, I just wanted to post here some replies to the questions you posted (transferred them to appropriate place on my talk page instead of the user main page).
1. TripAdvisor, it falls to the category of external linking more specifically into avoid linking hotel/restaurant reviews and guides as you can see in the [[Wikitravel:External_links]] page as the links should point to primary sources.
: I read thoroughly the policies and as mentioned above, WT tries to avoid references to third-party ratings and rankings unless they are '''truly exceptional''' []. In this case, I'm tempted to say that we can accept this reference because you wrote specifically for which period of time the nomination was granted and you gave detailed explanation why the hotel is so great. Here is the link to the policy about it []. I know that all the policies might sound overwhelming to you but this is all done for the '''Traveler's benefit'''. Believe me, there are many people who insert secondary links and promotional information that's why we try to be strict about [[External links]] policies.
2. About erasing the content which was used in other pages. I would like to refer to the advice [[User:IBAlex]] gave on my talk page ''The information on WT can only be copied if we attribute it to the original source, (that is not a practice here on Wikitravel) AND if the source has the same license we have. I would need to ask you to rewrite the information so it is not a word-for-word copy'' of course all this information is highly appreciated in the page, but we have some rules that need following.
: I am afraid to say that TripAdvisor has a different license than the wikis, including Wikitravel. The content that is over there is proprietary to TripAdvisor and users who write there ''agree not to (...) copy, distribute (...) create derivative works from, (...) or through this Website''. That is why we cannot have content from TripAdvisor on Wikitravel, even thought I believe you that you are the original author.
3. On multiple listings; as stated in the [[Don't tout]] page, exceptions can be made case-by-case, if in fact the organisation in question has a separate business under its own name and the route to this leads trough the page's talk section where these decisions are made by the community.
4. Here is the answer to the last issue [].
Please do message me on my talk page. --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 04:34, 27 January 2013 (EST)
: I really hope this helps:) Again, we would love to see you contributing on Wikitravel! Warm regards, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 14:16, 29 January 2013 (EST)
== Comments to Answers==
Thank you for answering some of my  questions.
As to question 4) I added a ``[[Pemberton ( British Columbia )]]````  to the [[Whistler]] page as a small fix.
But with all due respect your Search engine is defective. How in the hell are people to Know that they must use caps, fulll name of province in brackets etc. 40% of all internet searches for our neighbour  is  'whistler bc' all smalls. The search needs to work common snytax too!!!
PS I strongly suggest concordense:  there is no [Talk ]] button! With all due respect, again, I suggest ASAP the [[Discussion]] button is replaced with a [[Talk]]  button. Logic would entail [[Talk]]  taking one to [[Talk]] & not another button.
Original Question below.
4)Defective Search Engine: Your Search Engine is Non-Intuitive & Defective.
Pemberton ( British Columbia )is the only syntax acepted everything else is not found:
Pls  somebody add these alternates:  Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC, Pemberton British Columbia, Pemberton BC Canada or CA or CND, same uncapitalized in small fonts pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc, pemberton british columbia, pemberton bc canada or ca or cnd etc.
== Edit Reverts ==
You recently whole-sale reverted my edits on [[Sunriver (Oregon)]] for the reason "Listings added multiple times".  Granted, I'm new here, but I do not understand your reason for reverting, much less how my revisions in any way violated any kind of Wikitravel policy.  In my work, I've referred specifically to [[Colorado's Wine Country]], a ''Previously Off the Beaten Path'' article as a guide for the way the Sunriver article could look, not to mention the numerous policy pages.  Could you please enlighten me on what I did wrong, because I must have missed the boat to have contributed nothing worth keeping --[[User:Nick2253|Nick2253]] 17:28, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
: Hi Nick! I put your edits back on the [[Sunriver (Oregon)]] as they look good to me:) I am sure Otso will reply to you soon.
: Thank you for your contributions! Please keep it up, don't be discouraged by this small misunderstanding! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 19:23, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
::First of all let me say sorry for reverting these edits, they are really good edits. The undoing was a complete mistake by my part as I might have been looking into another page and reverted your edit instead of that, again sorry. I tend to open multiple pages when I'm looking trough the changes tho this has yet to happen before. Anyway the edits were good and solid than you for sharing your information on Wikitravel! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] 01:48, 12 March 2013 (EDT)
:::Hey, no harm, no foul!  Thanks for getting back to me.  I'm, in general, a pretty experienced wiki editor, and I was scratching my head, going "What the *&(# did I actually do wrong!?  I'm pretty sure I followed the rules.  I mean, huh?"  --[[User:Nick2253|Nick2253]] 04:28, 15 March 2013 (EDT)
Hi Otso, thank you for the warm welcome. I'm not sure if I'm responding in the right place as everything still seems a bit labyrinthine to me, so please bear with me if I've broken any rules.
Kind regards from Qatar -[[User:Stellar|Stellar]] ([[User talk:Stellar|talk]]) 16:15, 4 May 2013 (EDT)
== Nong Khai ==
Hello GiulioC!
My name is Carly and I have been editing the Nong Khai travel page. I realised the first edit/reverse of my additional information to the page and the reason was correct as I did not read the rules first. I have now spent some time editing and rewriting all of the information that I added onto the page. I hope now you will see it is all in my own words, and sourced from actual people living here in Nong Khai!
Thank you,
Hello OVK:
While trying to figure out just who you are and why you are making wholesale edits and reverts to the wikitravel Con Dao Vietnam page...
Is it you who is doing this ? For resaons such as "favoring one business over another ? Perhaps take a moment and see what people have to say on trip advisor about these businesses...the only unbiased source of info I can point to that justifies what i am writing....wholesale reverts...when I am also fine tuning very important information as the fact that taxis will be leaving the island is a bid heavy handed...
I am still figuring wikitravel out, but as the ONLY full time non veitnamese resident on Con Dao, my info is pretty good and solely in the best interests of wikitravel users.
: Hello User of the IP address! It's very normal to make mistake at the beginning and it's very good to bring the point to discussion as you do right now! As the objective of Wikitravel is to serve the traveller, the website is also open to professionals... And some of them (a lot actually!) are very stubborn when it comes to -not- respect so basic rules. So to answer to your question (OVK himself may answer as well) when a subject is controversial, it's good to open the discussion... On the Discussion's page of the article, so different people could give them inputs as well. You are more than welcome to create an account and ask for [[Help]] if needed. Thanks! [[User:PierrB|PierrB]] ([[User talk:PierrB|talk]]) 02:06, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
::While [[User:PierrB|PierrB]] summed up pretty well, I think your edits can be really valuable if they are formatted properly and follow the guidelines. I agree that the "wholesale" revert of the edits might have been done in a better way, the biggest reason was that some parts of the text broke the formatting. When it comes to businesses [[wbo|Welcome business owners]] has good guidelines for non-business people as well how to add unbiased information --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 04:51, 2 June 2013 (EDT)
== Misguiding Edits ==
I've tried contacting support but as they suggest I'll directly contact an Admin this time, copying my other original post below~
Hi there,
I know this is kind of against the sense of Wiki to complain about, but here goes;
I'm a local citizen of Turkey, and there has been protest going on since May 31st, 2013. Articles such as,
were put a warning for travellers since the first day of the events to prevent any inconvenience that may be done. Since I'm a local, I've had my eyes and ears on this very topic.
To cut this short, most of the protesters have abandoned the streets, police forces were taken back by the governorships of the cities. Streets are empty (as in normal state) in the day time and is totally safe. Unfortunately, some other uninformed editor folks has been editing these pages obstinately back to the last week's that includes old "Warnings". I'm grown tired of correcting them over and adding back the news. If you check the last edits done, you'll well understand my point. Taking this into the discussion page seems like a lost cause.
Finally, is there anything we can do to prevent these folks to edit the atleast the Warning box as it causes misguidance to people who may wish to travel into Turkey and is in my book important?
Thanks in advance, please be kind and reasonable.
[[User:Vaki|Vaki]] ([[User talk:Vaki|talk]]) 18:56, 9 June 2013 (EDT)
== #Do section ==
I appreciate you keeping an eye out for activities that are not according Wikitravel's policies, but I would like to discuss adding tours under the #Do section of regions and cities. I've noticed you deleted each tour added under this section for the Transylvania page. I've checked the guidelines for tours, which are outlined here: Can you please detail why the tours under Transylvania#Do did not comply with this policy?
::Hello there Razvi, by no means are my intentions negative, just that there are a set of rules we follow on Wikitravel. For the listings in the [[Transylvania]] page, I undid them because of the violation of the [[don't tout|touting guidelines]], as I wrote in the edit summary (which you can see looking into the edit history (top right corner of the page)); 'the company can only be listed once, not every single tour individually'. Also the listings were a bit too long, you should make them a bit shorter and describing the company in general. People can easily click on your link and see the individual tours themselves. --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 02:59, 28 June 2013 (EDT)
== Hallo from Viviane / Porteplume ==
Hello Otso,
I'm Viviane from Holland, I'm just beginning to learn the removing of Spammers & their spams and I'm glad to have "met" you on the "Recent changes" page. I just saw we were patrolling at the same time so I may have disturbed you... Sorry for that!
Kind regards from Holland - Viviane
:Hi there Vivianne and sorry for interrupting your patrolling! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 03:23, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
== Thank you for your help ==
Thank you OVK for your help with my contribution on Fiji. I'm totally new to the Wikitravel community and I appreciated your helpful suggestions. My experience with Wikitravel got off to a rough start with being blocked a day after I joined but it's good now I hope to be able to share my expertise further. --[[User:Fijiisparadise|Fijiisparadise]] ([[User talk:Fijiisparadise|talk]]) 00:25, 18 July 2013 (EDT)
:I am more than happy to help you with any issues you might encounter! We would love some more information on Fiji and any other places you might have knowledge on. Let me know if there is anything else I can do! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 04:22, 19 July 2013 (EDT)
== Lugu wikipedia link ==
Hi there, I added a wikipedia link on the [[Lugu]] page to point to [[Wikipedia:Lugu_Lake]], but you reverted by edit saying that the link was not necessary. It is indeed necessary, because in Wikipedia, Lugu can refer to multiple places, not just to the lake in Yunnan. I will revert your revert. Sorry.
Same for [[Xiangcheng]] - there are quite a few places named Xiangcheng in China.
:Hello, I was referring to the [[xl|External links]] page on tertiary sources usage, under the External link usage heading. People should, can and know how to find that information without the links.  --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 08:00, 24 October 2013 (EDT)
== Listing for tour operators ==
Dear OVK,
I'm a long-term traveler and new contributor. I try to understand the logic of acceptable and not-acceptable entries. In this specific case I try to understand your removal of my listing for a tour operator on the Wadi Rum > Do page with the remark: "... to keep the articles clear of things that do not benefit the traveler. In this case as a traveler could arrange these things themselves (generic tours)". In the article under "Do" is mentioned "...a Bedouin driver who serves as a guide, but often does not have much knowledge and poor English. Therefore, picking up a guide at the gate is a hit and miss affair and many of the best guides rely mainly on advance bookings.
You can usually make advance bookings through your hotel, and this may be advisable given that some guides will not have good English. Many of the guides have websites, through which you can arrange your tour."
Therefore I'm not sure why the listing of an experienced tour guide and tour operator with excellent English practice differs from any of the operators of Bedouin camps listed further down in the article. As a traveler I can easily find Bedouin camps in Lonely Planet, TripAdvisor etc. and do not rely on Wikitravel. Tour guides however can not be found on any of the above sites.
Thanks for your time and efforts. <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:Awonderfulmind]] ([[User_talk:Awonderfulmind|talk]] • [[Special:Awonderfulmind|contribs]]) </small>
:I get where you are coming from with this crit. Nevertheless we have our [[tour|guidelines for adding tours and tour arrangers]]. I always encourage users to start conversations on [[Wikitravel_talk:Activity_listings|appropriate talk pages]] if they feel we can improve the site! --[[User:OVK|OVK]] ([[User talk:OVK|talk]]) 08:48, 7 November 2013 (EST)

Revision as of 13:59, 28 November 2013

Here you can find the archived discussions from my talk page. Cleaned 28.11.2013