I doubt the "silk" items are real silk. What I have seen is mostly polyester. It's very hard to spot the difference if you are not a textile expert.
An anonymous user deleted something I put it, link to a tourist guide "a pleasant lass with reasonable English is Lily 13471397956". I'm putting it back, since I see no reason for the removal. Comment, anyone? Pashley 06:34, 23 May 2006 (EDT)
Current text is:
Advice for tourists who have no idea what the Chinese price should be:
When I wrote that, I said
I really feel my numbers are more accurate, but would like to hear other opinions. Anyone? Pashley 02:39, 29 August 2006 (EDT)
No comment in several months, so I've changed it. Pashley 23:27, 9 November 2006 (EST)
You have the Karst Hotel listed as Mid-Range, but they do have some cheap rooms. Their dormitory-style rooms are the same price as at Monkey Jane's, and cheaper than the Backstreet Hostel but it's much, much nicer. Everything is clean and they put bright, pretty duvet covers and pillow cases on all the bedding. You get to the Karst Hotel by going down the alley directly opposite the entrance to China Climb.
Also, you should note on here that Monkey Jane's can be really dirty. I stayed there one night and had mice, cockroaches and lots and lots of mold, all in the same room. -Kari
I added details about the Karst Hotel, but it is still listed as mid-range. I wonder if it should be listed in both budget and mid range, because the dormitory rooms are very affordable- 15 RMB per night when I was there during July 2007. Krudd01 19:47, 3 March 2008 (EST)
Are personal opinions, like 98 Bar being arguably the best hangout in town, allowed?
Most entries are biased - new hotels, bars, restaurants get added by owners or friends of owners, or just as bad, someone who visited for 2 days and thought they knew everything (However, Bar 98 is full of douche bags)
Some people might be of the opinion that the Aussies that hang there are arguably the biggest douche bags in town.
I think the current text is too complex; it needs to be cleaned up and summarised. I wrote some of it and would prefer someone else, more objective, do the cleanup. Pashley 10:10, 9 January 2008 (EST)
I went ahead and changed it. Others should have a look, perhaps improve it. Pashley 21:16, 12 January 2008 (EST)
I deleted "with authentic western cuisine and a good standard of English spoken." I was there a few months ago, and no one spoke English at all and the food was just like the rest of china...it was awesome, but not western.
An anonymous contributor deleted this listing without explanation. I reverted, giving the place the benefit of the doubt, but maybe there's good reason to delete, so I'm asking here. Pashley 10:31, 12 September 2008 (EDT) it has closed down!!!! -
Is there a policy on listing these? Is there a slippery slope we should worry about?
Almost the first thing on this talk page is me arguing that a guide listing should go back in after someone deleted it. I did put it back, but it has since been deleted again. Apparently some people feel we should not give info on good local guides. I'd say they're wrong, but that does not mean I'm entirely clear on how to handle such info.
Sometimes it is clear. I've recently deleted touting text here and others took the same text out of China, Guilin, Tibet, ...
We currently have a messed up listing of several guides under Get around/Tour Guides. It is sufficiently unreadable (despite or perhaps because of recent edits) that I cannot tell how to salvage it. Should we trash it? Or can someone fix it, so that a reader can tell which name goes with which phone number? If we are using tags, then each guide should have their own <listing>..</listing> tags.
Other guides are mentioned, without tagging, under See/Yangshuo Town. Obviously, we want only one list (or zero). Where? And should it use tags? Pashley 08:15, 2 March 2009 (EST)
OK, this seems to be running problem. I recently de-touted some, perhaps not enough. Then Gorilla Jones, a regular contributor whose judgement I'm inclined to respect, deleted the whole section. Is there a policy that covers this? Where? If not, what should policy be?
I'd be inclined to leave in a list of guides that gives only name and contact info (phone, email, office address, website), with names in alphabetical order. The touting text must go, and it seems to me the way to handle that is by having no text. Other opinions? Pashley 11:25, 27 April 2009 (EDT)
I don't agree with Gorilla. Wikitravel is built for making travelers conveniently. The list can help tourists find good operators easily. If there are no listing, tourists may be touted by non-qualified guides at the exits of airport, train station and bus station. According the to listing policy(http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Activity_listings#Tour_listings) I think any tour operators who meet the 4 conditions blow can be listed. 1.The operator must have a "real world" office with a phone number and address. 2.Do not list tour operators that act as a booking agent or travel-planner for the traveler—tour agencies should offer something as a supplement, rather than a replacement for Wikitravel guides. Listed tours should count as an activity available at a destination (e.g., a helicopter tour of a city, or a camel expedition into the Sahara). 3.Do not list resellers of tours, only list the actual tour operators. 4.Always list tour agencies if they are requisite to visit a certain area. Examples include tours required by law (e.g., Panmunjeom) and tours required due to exceptional danger (e.g., war zones and extreme environments such as the Amazon, Antarctica, Space, etc). I do agree that booking agent should not be listed here. Top Level Tour offer train ticket, hotel booking and etc. however, our cord service is to act as an operator for tourists who need our package or private tour and booking services are built for making tourists conveniently not our cord business. Moreover, individual guide should not be listed because they are not operators but probably tout. It would be great that require the operator summit their business liscense to somewhere in wikitravel to verify before they list their names on it. I am sure by this way, travelers can reach good operators direcly and easily through wikitravel.
It is good that we have a right place to share our different views.
Look at the one of Tri-Star Pilot Service Tours,(http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Activity_listings#Listing_subdivisions_and_order) It is sample of Activity Listings. If it can be listed I think we can too. Otherwise it is unfair:-( That's what I want to claim. I still think Top Level Tour meet the conditions and should be listed. Hope to get your reply soon. Thank you! Lily
It does not?:-( Can you please elabrote which conditions that we don't meet in http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Activity_listings#Tour_listings I am not pester. I just take people's advice and present our case in the right place where we talk about. No one else agrees with me? I think only you and some people don't. "Your idiosyncratic interpretation of our tour policy is anyway irrelevant" ? You always never list the specific item while I always present my opinions with the specific items of the rules from wikitravel pages supported. You have been finding different pages of the rules of wikitravel to contradict me but they are absurdness. I have been studying the rules for a long time and I exactly know our agency do not be against any of them. Thank you! Lily
Thanks. This new reason is more reasonble not like the other ones that asks me to read this page and that page without giving me a specific reason. I am glad help wikitravel to edit more information according to the rules in the future. I just wonder you guys check wikitravel every day and reply people 's messages and you don't need to work and have fun with friends? Top Level Tour-Lily in Guilin, China
I dont believe the bald assertion "Wikitravel is designed for independent travelers.". Granted, most of the writers and many of the readers fit that description, but it has been argued elsewhere that, for example, having an article on War zone safety is a good idea because WT is not just for tourists and the Wikitravel_talk:Votes_for_deletion page discusses having articles on places like Wake Island that are only open to military personnel and their contractors. So I do not thing it is only for independent travellers, perhaps mainly but not only.
Many travellers do use these services, especially in places like Yangshuo where a guide really helps if you want to get out into the countryside and a tour may be the best way to see the terrace farming areas. You can certainly do both on your own, but not every traveller wants to. They can be fairly difficult if you do not speak or read Chinese and some travellers would sooner spend the money than have the hassle. Personally, I'd only consider using a guide or taking a tour someplace like Agra or the Forbidden City where I want the explanation of the history, but that's me.
So I think links to guides and tour operators (not resellers) do belong in this article. I'd even include guides that lack a "real world office", the ones that work out of some cafe in Yangshuo. It does need some comment about avoiding the touts around the bus stations and asking to see a license, though. Pashley 21:27, 3 May 2009 (EDT)
Car hire listing
We have a nascent edit war about a car hire listing. I don't think a listing for a specific car hire company is appropriate, unless perhaps there's only one such company in Yangshuo - especially, given the description:
"A professional service designed to provide tourists with efficient and safe private transportation while visiting Guilin, Yangshuo and Longsheng."
I might have left up simple contact information.
The lister claims it's not an ad, but a service to visitors, to keep the listing here. Your opinions, please? Ikan Kekek 13:53, 13 April 2011 (EDT)
I think it is fine. Listing a couple of car rental companies is better than nothing. As some tourists need this service. Just make sure that it is not from travel agencies(indirect to rent car) so that there is no edit war.