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Talk:Western Australia

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Should information about snakes/spiders be repeated in the Western Australia article, or should there be a link to the appropriate section of the Australia article in the Stay safe section? Jamboo 09:00, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

Proposing a regions rename[edit]

Im planing on doing some work the WA page but first I want to get the regions in order. What exists bugs me though, so I have a few questions before I start changing things.

  • The Heartlands region. Isn't this usually called the Wheatbelt?. Every map [1] I look at agrees with me. Id like to propose a name change. The page has almost no info yet so it wouldnt disturb too much.
  • Should Rottnest_Island be its own region or part of the Perth_(region)?

Anyway, just some thoughts. Any objections?

Totally with you on the Wheatbelt. I identified with that name as soon as I read it. Rottnest should be part of the Perth (region) I think. --Burmesedays 01:17, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
I don't think the smaller regions in the South West add much. I think the Margaret River could be a single article, and having it as a region and a town is messy. Same goes for Perth, and Albany. Really ugly. Especially with the amount of content there is there now. I'd be in favour of just having a South West Region, incorporating all those towns. I'd put Rotto in there too. The Wheatbelt is a well-defined, well known region. When you are given a region like that, jump on it, I say. --inas 01:23, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
Agreed on the Southwest also... it is over-refined at the moment. If someone Cardboardbird?) can get a definitive list of proposed regions up on this talk page, then it could be a quick re-organisation I think. I would be happy to do the map. --Burmesedays 01:30, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
Proposed Regions (13 April 2010)
This is what I have come up with, including the major travel spots
  • Perth (Region) - Perth, Northbridge, Freo, Rottnest Island.
  • Kimberley - Broome, Kununurra, Warmun(Bungle Bungle NP), Wyndham and Fitzroy Crossing
  • Pilbara - Port Hedland, Karratha, Dampier, Tom Price, Newman, Marble Bar
  • Gascoyne - Monkey Mia, Carnarvon, Coral Bay, Exmouth(Ningaloo Reef), Shark Bay, Mt Augustus
  • Midwest - Geraldton, Dongara, Kalbarri, Meekatharra
  • Wheatbelt - Toodyay, York, Gingin, Lancelin, Cervantes(The Pinnacles), Hyden(Wave rock)
  • Peel - Mandurah, Serpentine, Waroona, Dwellingup(Lane Poole Reserve/Nanga Brook), Preston beach, Pinjarrah.
  • South West - Bunbury, Harvey, Busselton, Margaret River, Augusta, Manjimup, Walpole
  • Great Southern - Albany, Denmark,
  • Goldfields-Esperance - Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Coolgardie, Esperance
I could easily see South west, Great Southern and Peel being combined into a single South West region, to make 8 regions total. Even the Gascoyne and Midwest, could combine if need be. That area always seems connected in my travel memory. That would make 7 regions. - Cardboardbird 09:34, 12 April 2010 (EDT)
Guess what I am going to ask :)? Could you please mark out that scheme on a suitable free map source... this one is good: [2]. I think I understand your proposal and it seems eminently sensible. But it is much easier to visualise with a marked up map. Cheers.--Burmesedays 10:21, 12 April 2010 (EDT)
Added the image for further discussion. This is my preferred 8 regions idea. Cardboardbird 06:53, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
That looks very sensible indeed to me. Lets wait for more comments before progressing the map further.--Burmesedays 07:33, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
Nice to see this being broken down thoughtfully. Just FYI, my Australia trace was very precise, so it should be a ready made base for a Western Australia regions map, which should save time ;) --Peter Talk 10:33, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
Perfect Peter. Just this evening, I was looking around for traces at Commons. Yours is definitely the most appropriate for this task. That will save time for sure. --Burmesedays 10:52, 13 April 2010 (EDT)

Here we are. Please let me know if anything needs changing or adding. I am not at all sure which of the more minor roads should go on? Or anything else? I am generally pleased with this map. Using Peter's detailed trace of Australia saved a lot of time. Apologies for the nasty bright colour for the Perth region, but tiny regions need that otherwise they are lost. --Burmesedays 07:57, 14 April 2010 (EDT)

Looks great! As far as extra roads go, Albany Highway (Route 30) from Perth to Albany is a popular route for travellers heading directly to the south coast. All the other major routes are represented. Also, how about putting Eucla on there? It's on the South East border and the first/last place you are if coming from/to SA. - Cardboardbird 19:47, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Thanks. All done, plus I added a couple of other roads which link main destinations. Now, over to you to do all the regionalisation work =). You could copy the regionlist table (map is included in this) to the main article at any time now. --Burmesedays 01:22, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

Tell you what, I am pleasantly surprised that the sub-region articles are in reasonable shape. There are very few sub region articles with any meaningful content at Wikitravel. WA is looking good. The biggest task will be sorting the re-assignments in the previously over-refined South West I think.--Burmesedays 10:01, 15 April 2010 (EDT)

I had a spare hour and I think the new region scheme is now all in place, redirects issued, breadcrumbs correct etc. Please do check though.--Burmesedays 10:49, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
Thanks, I was trying to get on it but WT is slothful for me right now and you were making the changes before I could even get the edit page to open. I'm going to be short of free time over the weekend so further work will have to wait till Monday. - Cardboardbird 11:01, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
I just noticed that the Gascoyne region comes down a bit lower than it should be. Kalbarri NP is in the Midwest. The Gascoyne border should be horizontal just below the Shark bay peninsula. I see that my original sketch was inaccurate. The two coastal districts below Shark Bay should be part of the Midwest. Sorry, all my fault. - Cardboardbird 23:00, 21 April 2010 (EDT)

Cities and Other Destinations[edit]

  • It seems odd to me that Port Hedland is not one of the 9 listed cities. I suggest it replaces Exmouth which is easily mentioned in the OD's as the gateway to Ningaloo.
  • There are too many ODs listed. I suggest losing Wave Rock, New Norcia and Rottnest Island. I know Perthies love Rottnest, but to be frank it ain't up to much from a visitor's perspective when compared to the wonderful, dramatic ODs in this state. That would get us back to 9.--Burmesedays 13:34, 13 April 2010 (EDT)
Mandurah should also be listed on the cities list since Mandurah really is a city. In my view, Port Hedlands only attraction (for a traveller) is its proximity to Karijini NP, which is covered on the OD list. Agree with cutting the OD list and dropping Rotto, Wave Rock and New Norcia. Eighty-Mile beach and Mt Augustus seem inessential too. Cutting those 5 would make 8. I'd like to see the Valley of the Giants be a general Southern Forests area that includes Walpole, Pemberton, Gloucester Tree, Valley of the Giants and D'Entrecasteaux National Park. Valley of the Giants is a commercial attractions so it seems a tad touty to list it specifically. Cardboardbird 01:35, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Not sure if you know this or not, but our obejctive is always to keep these lists to a max of 9 (the so-called 7+2). Having been to both 80 mile beach (stunning) and Mt Augustus (magnificent rugged beauty), I would pitch for keeping both of those.--Burmesedays 01:55, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Yes, I'm quite aware of the max of 9 rule, hence my suggestion of cutting a few. (Pinnacles, Kalbarri NP, Shark Bay/Monkey Mia, Purnululu, Coral Bay/Ningaloo, Karijini National Park, Margaret River, Southern Forests; makes 9). If 80 mile and MtAugustus go in, something has to be cut out. Which one to drop is a tough question since I think they all make a compelling case. - Cardboardbird 03:04, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
There are 8 on the list you give above. If I had to choose, I would plump for Mt Augustus ahead of 80 mile to make that list up to 9. If you agree, I suggest you plunge forward and re-structure the list. Same for Mandurah - you are dead right there. Lose Exmouth for Mandurah. --Burmesedays 03:13, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Crikey, so there is only 8. My mistake. Too many late nights I think. I agree, Mt Augustus it is then. I'll get on the reorganising - Cardboardbird 03:26, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Got to say I don't agree with this list. Exmouth is a prime tourist destination. Mandurah? Bunbury? Geraldton? ahead of Exmouth? Mandurah is almost part of Perth, and really doesn't warrant a mention at the top level. Rottnest may not be up to much, but it has the advantage over much of WA that you can actually get there, without a spare week just to drive there. It also has lots of visitors, so lets be realistic here. --inas 23:51, 19 April 2010 (EDT)
I think the point on Exmouth was that is gets a key mention in the OD list as the gateway to Ningaloo Reef. If that is not enough, then a swap for Mandurah would be fine with me - a place I know little about and don't even remember passing through (although I must have many times). Bunbury is definitely on the international traveller map for surfing and other water sports, and I guess as the nearest proper town to Margaret River? Geraldton is a world class surfing destination, and I think I met more nationalities of traveller there than anywhere else in WA. Rottnest Island - if you insist :). It is though a grim option compared to the fabulous natural wonders available in this state. Point taken about convenience but I wonder how important that is for most travellers to the state? If you wanted it nice and easy, then why go to WA in the first place? --Burmesedays 00:12, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
I don't think Bunbury is really associated with the Margaret River, I think that is quite distinct. Maybe Busselton, is associated with it, but not Bunbury. I'm surprised it is internationally known at all, but I'll take your word for it. Can anybody speak in favour of Mandurah though? As far as Rotto goes - lots of people go there, which does make it important in a travel guide, and it really isn't that bad. I also think that Broome is not really best characterised as the gateway to the Kimberley. Lots of people go to Broome, ceble beach, chinatown, many fewer explore the Kimblerley in any depth. --inas 01:25, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
Agree that Mandurah is of little interest to most travellers. I originally suggested its inclusion as it's the second largest city and so should get a mention. Perhaps if the Perth (region) was extended down to Mandurah it could be included under that? Inas rightly observes that Mandurah is almost a suburb of Perth. The suburban rail line goes there and city workers commute daily to PerthCBD from Mandurah. Same for Rotto. It's close enough to Perth to be a comfortable day trip so might only warrant inclusion in Perth (region). The Cities heading throws me since Esperance, Broome and Kununurra are not actual cities, more like regional centres. Broome is highly overrated but highly popular so its difficult to leave it out. And the Kimberley needs some representation and Broome is usually the first place people go before venturing off yonder. Kununurra, as much as I love it, is not really a big hitter and could happily reside in the OD list. Margaret River should come under the South West region. Yep, "gateway to" anything is a terrible overused cliché. I need to change that. - Cardboardbird 21:06, 20 April 2010 (EDT)
Remember that in the Wikitravel context, a city could be a village, town or city.--Burmesedays 03:26, 22 April 2010 (EDT)

Rail lines for the state map[edit]

A state level map should show only main rail routes. I was planning to show:

  • Perth - Kalgoorlie - Nullabor etc
  • Perth - Bunbury
  • Perth - Albany
  • Perth - Geraldton

Are any of the northern routes worth showing in addition? Or are they mainly commercial mine lines?--Burmesedays 03:20, 14 April 2010 (EDT)

All of the rail lines in the north are privately owned lines for the mines. The passenger lines are; The Prospector (Perth > Kalgoorlie)[3] Avon Link (Perth >Northam)[4] and Australind (Perth > Bunbury)[5]. As far as I know there are not any passenger rail services to Albany or Geraldton. The Indian Pacific goes via Kalgoorlie [6]. Also the Perth suburban rail line now goes all the way to Mandurah. This map is a useful reference [7] - Cardboardbird 04:00, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
So just to confirm, the lines shown on the map you reference [8] to Albany and Geraldton are not for passengers?--Burmesedays 04:12, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Yes, The thin light blue lines are ore/wheat train lines. Only the thick lines are for people. Sadly, WA doesn't have much of a rail network - Cardboardbird 04:38, 14 April 2010 (EDT)

And the Albany Highway should probably be red. It is the main road to Albany. --inas 23:57, 19 April 2010 (EDT)

Also, what is the basis for marking the airports. Interstate flights? --inas 01:09, 21 April 2010 (EDT)
The main basis is that it is my favourite icon :). Please suggest changes if you wish. --Burmesedays 01:19, 21 April 2010 (EDT)

WA state map[edit]

(swept in from User_talk:Inas)

Hi there. If you have any more comments on the WA state map (eg airports?), please try to make them today as I am about about to fix the Albany highway colour. Be good to get any more fixes done in one hit. Cheers. --Burmesedays 20:51, 21 April 2010 (EDT)

Hi -
  1. Highway 1 up to Port Headland, and around to Albany and Esperance, isn't a National Highway. So, it shouldn't use the green shield, but the white one.
  2. The Albany Highway should be red - its is a main, sealed road.
  3. The road to Exmouth should be red - again, it is main and sealed.
  4. I still don't understand the reasoning for where the airports are marked. If they are just for interstate flights, then Kalgoorlie with its one flight to Melbourne a week, doesn't really rate higher than Kunnunurra with its daily to Darwin. If it is major scheduled jet services, then at least Geraldton, Albany, Karratha, should be on there.
  5. I'm not sure the town is commonly known as Kalgoorlie-Boulder. Maybe the airport is, but the town is just Kalgoorlie.
  6. The National Park and Ningaloo may be better with a blue shaded area, than just a dot. Maybe Shark Bay doesn't even need a dot, being next to the bay it is apparent.
  7. I'd still think that we may need more work on our cities list. I think Karratha is more worth a mention than Port Headland, but these decisions are always a little arbitary. --inas 21:46, 21 April 2010 (EDT)
I will copy to this to Talk:Perth. Thanks for all that, just a few comments:
  • It is normal on any WT country or region to differentiate between roads. Red does not mean sealed and yellow unsealed. In a country with decent roads, red would normally mean super big sealed roads such as main highways, and yellow another main road of less importance.
  • Airports. Nothing to stop more being on there and I will add.
  • Our article is called Kalgoorlie-Boulder. If you think that article should renamed Kalgoorlie, then I would agree with you.
  • Blue dots are used universally at WT to mark an OD and I would be reluctant to go against that standard.
  • Karratha can be added to the map and I will do so. There is nothing to say that only listed cities should be on the map. As long as all the listed ones are, then the map complies with our star map standard. Others can be added and nearly always are, by me at least. I already added Derby and Eucla which do even have articles!--Burmesedays 04:06, 22 April 2010 (EDT)
The straightforward changes all done, including correction of the Gascoyne borders. --Burmesedays 05:03, 22 April 2010 (EDT)
Looking good. There is a precedent for the Greet Barrier Reef on the Australia map, for when a dot just doesn't cut it. Take the point re Kalgoorlie. Still not sure on the airports though. --inas 09:20, 22 April 2010 (EDT)