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Talk:Tokyo

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Revision as of 04:28, 13 June 2007 by Jpatokal (talk | contribs) (District split)
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I moved this page because it seems to be about Tokyo the city, not the greater Tokyo region. It's also quite a stub! I've only been to Tokyo once or twice, so I don't have a good idea of districts there. But we need to copy over the huge city article template and get this puppy hoppin'! -- Evan 08:03, 8 Nov 2003 (PST)

I did my best to transfer the information to the huge city template. Tokyo is still a stub (now full of stubs), but I'm concerned I may have gone overboard on the districts. The 23 wards of Tokyo seem overwhelming. On the other hand, there isn't really any larger subset of the city that is recognized. I appended some well known destinations to each ward to try to make the wards themselves comprehensible. Using the destinations themselves would make for an even more unmanageable list of districts.
Some of the specifics like hotels still need to be moved out to their respective districts, but I thought I'd wait a bit and see how the districts themselves went over. The "Do" section needs more. Some of the information under safety could be moved out to Japan in general. This is just one more step. -- ted 15:23, 23 Feb 2004 (JST)
Ted, I agree with you that the 23 wards are pretty overwhelming. What about only highlighting wards that would be of interest to travellers-- or is that really all of them? I really think that long lists of administrative districts/wards/whatever are pretty daunting to people... so maybe less is more in this case? Majnoona 07:45, 24 Feb 2004 (EST)
Majnoona,
Thanks for taking a look. Highlighting the wards that would interest travellers seems like a good idea. The only problem I had was defining interest and where to draw the line. Just off the top of my head I can come up with interesting things to see and do in almost all of those wards, and that really just reflects my own interests. Maybe wards of interest to most travellers would be a list of about 15-16. That would cover the main tourist sites. At 15-16, why not go for the whole shebang?
The next larger subset of Tokyo that is well-defined and means something to people is the split within/outside the 23 wards. There is no "downtown" to speak of, but several. Trying to list the multiple "downtowns" or neighborhoods gets you to a very long list as well. Where to assign the neighborhoods that fall between major centers would be totally arbitrary and meaningless to others. I had looked at Boston and seen the list of all the neighborhoods, so I followed that. I just checked out London, which groups all neighborhoods into chunks. That might work, but any such divisions would be pretty arbitrary and might lead to misunderstanding. That is, if a wikitraveller asked someone about a hypothetical "North Tokyo", only another wikitraveller would understand them.
One other solution would be to split regions by transport, rather than geography. This is what people tend to do here. Places are identified by station, then what line that station is on if the listener doesn't know. This is quite manageable, but presumes some background knowledge of the legendary Tokyo train system.
I think the division by ward is useful, as that is the basis of all addresses, there are English language official websites for each ward, and they are a complete division of the city. Perhaps the list could be moved off to a separate page to still provide the organizational structure without blasting people as soon as they hit the Tokyo main page? Would moving it out to a separate page be too much of a violation of consistency?
I was trying to plan ahead for when articles re: Tokyo started to reach the extent of the city itself. I envision pages for specific areas and destinations which might all be linked from the ward pages. Also, itineraries and checklists for people with specific interests might help to make things more accessible.
-- ted 10:05, 25 Feb 2004 (JST)


Tokyo Q

Nice quick whip-around. Consider linking with Tokyo Q at www.tokyoq.com for up-to-the-minute chatter. Rick Kennedy long-time resident


What does "Get your bags in before you do" mean? Before you do what? This was translated literally into French as something even more incomprehensible, then changed to something completely different. -phma 12:12, 3 Mar 2004 (EST)

"...before you get in". Thanks for the question about that- it made me look and clean up one or two other things there. Just out of curiosity, how did the translation sound in French? Amusing, I hope. Ted 14:01, 3 Mar 2004 (EST)
"Obtenez vos sacs dedans avant que vous" - "Obtain your sacks inside before that you". Baraguin. -phma 14:12, 3 Mar 2004 (EST)
Cheers! Ted 19:05, 3 Mar 2004 (EST)

Shouldn't understand:language go into a "Talk" section and understand/expenses into a "buy" section? Not trying to be a nitpicker. -- Nils 06:02, 16 Apr 2004 (EDT)


Lost in Translation

I'm a little apprehensive about introducing the visitor to Tokyo through Bill Murray. I think this is kind of unnecessary and I've replaced it with something else. Hope this is alright.

The section was removed alright, but no sign of a replacement? I've reverted the change for now (and personally I think LiT does give an excellent impression of how the average first-time visitor usually sees Tokyo). Jpatokal 22:36, 14 Jul 2005 (EDT)
I have to say it seems a little disjointed: the paragraph starts by saying that the city is featured quite heavily in the film, then goes on to say that actually it is mostly set in a hotel. The final sentence is good, but I fail to see the relevance of the remainder.

Free map

Here's a public domain (CIA) map of Tokyo that could be usable with a bit of cleanup: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/world_cities/tokyo.jpg Jpatokal 04:14, 11 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Map: classifications of wards

What's the basis for the "district" classification of wards on Image:Map_tokyo_districts.png? Is "Downtown" Shitamachi? If so I'm not sure Toshima-ku or Bunkyo-ku would count, though I think Koto and Sumida would. If it's "downtown" in an American sense, I don't think that concept can be applied to Tokyo. "Suburb" is a somewhat misleading, it gives the impression if low-density leafy residential areas which merge into open countryside once you cross the border to Saitama or Kanazawa ;-)

The base is the scientific process known as my gut feeling. I'm open to suggestions for improving it... Jpatokal 06:37, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Description of Shinagawa

"Shinagawa, a major train hub" - Shinagawa Station locates in Minato Ward but Shinagawa Ward.

Japones coins

Japones coins

Japones coins

Japones coins

Japones coins

Uh... counsel, I'd like to know where you're going with this line of questioning. --Evan 17:09, 7 Nov 2005 (EST)
They'd like more Japones coins! Wouldn't we all? -- Ilkirk 17:17, 7 Nov 2005 (EST)

Eating: Splurge

The "very expensive" sushi resturant with the best in town is quoted as being 3000 yen for a set dinner. Is this correct? 3000 yen is roughly US$25.00, which would be considered a downright steal in most American & European cities. -- Poodlemcmuffin 12:23, 17 Feb 2006 (EST)

The figure is correct and it's a downright steal in Tokyo too. As the Tokyo/Chuo article explains, the same meal would easily cost you ¥30,000 a few blocks down in the Ginza — but there you don't have to wake up at 5 AM to queue in a fish market! Jpatokal 05:41, 18 Feb 2006 (EST)

City vs prefecture split

In line with the Japanese version of the Tokyo article, I will hereby proceed to split off all 'peripheral' Tokyo (outside the 23 wards) into its own article. Jpatokal 00:41, 11 July 2006 (EDT)

District split

The updated Tokyo district map's central/shitamachi/suburb split no longer corresponds to that in the listing, and I'm not sure it makes much sense to have a separate article for every single Tokyo ward.

So I'd propose that we...

  1. drop the entire downtown/new town split, because even the Japanese can't agree on what's where
  2. Lump together the northern 'burbs (Nerima, Itabashi, Kita, Nakano, Suginami) → Tokyo/North?
  3. Lump together the eastern 'burbs across the Sumida (Adachi, Katsushika, Edogawa, Sumida, Koto) → Tokyo/East?

Opinions? Here's a handy (if ugly) reference map. Jpatokal 00:23, 13 June 2007 (EDT)