"GYANENDRA" is written in all caps as if it were his family name. It isn't; as I understand it, it's his given name, and his family name is "Bir Bikram". -phma 06:06, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)
- According to this site his full name is Gyanendra Bir Bikram Shah Dev. It seems that "Gyanendra" could be his given name and "Bir Bikram" his family name, as you say. I understand that "Shah" is the name of the dynasty he belongs to. I'm not sure what "Dev" means, although it seems to be the male form of "Devi" -- perhaps an honorific title? DhDh 07:30, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)
- "Dev" means "god" (at least in Hindi, which is closely related). Some of the kings on that page are named "Bikram" without "Bir", so I think we'll have to ask a Nepali to sort it out. -phma 07:42, 6 Dec 2003 (PST)
i am a nepali. Gyanendra is his first name and shah his last name, and also the name of the dynasty. 'Bir Bikram' is just a middle name. The first king of Nepal, as a kingdom, was Prithvi Narayan Shah, Narayan being his middle name and Shah his last name. just to prove a point.
- The royal family probably replaced a more ordinary family name with 'Shah' at some point, just as the Ranas originally were the Kunwars. Apparently Shah is a Persian word that comes from the same root as 'Kshatriya', both meaning 'preserver'.
- Although contemporary accounts say Prithvi Narayan's forefathers were already 'Shah', that seems pretentious in Gorkha, which was not a big kingdom in its day. If I were a neighborhing king, I might have been tempted to attack just to put those pretentious people in their place! So is there more than a little creative fiction in the royals' family history? LADave 03:18, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
"Dev" means "deity". It may be tacked on because of the belief that the king is divine. This only applies to the current king. Dead kings have outlived divinity and crown princes don't have it yet. LADave 02:06, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
The part Bikram is interesting. It did not exist in the name of the kings until Rana Bahadur Shah. After him, the tradition of Bikram started because Rana Bahadur Shah made Girban Juddha, not the first child born to him, a king. It literal translation means 'not in order'. So all the kings after Girban Juddha are called Bikram and this applies to the currently 'suspended' king.
Hmm, I dont think I agree with moving the whole Volunteer in Nepal article into the Nepal article. It was never part of the Nepal page before. We have seperate travel issue articles for driving in different places, etc, so there is a precedent for detailed info. I'd include a graph or two about it on the Nepal page of course... but there is a difference between the travel info and the travel topic. Majnoona 23:32, 25 Mar 2004 (EST)
- It's short info for a specific country. If it was really long and had various subsections and detailed info, I'd agree... but why make an article for a few sentences? Doesn't make much sense IMO. It's not like Nepal is overflowing with written material either. I think a much better idea would be a general "volunteer work" article; many underdeveloped countries could stand from such help and several organizations exist that organize such projects. -- Nils 05:59, 26 Mar 2004 (EST)
- It's not a few sentence-- it's several graphs at this point and I hope it grows with added information. A general "volunteer" article may be ok, but it sounds too general too me-- like a "Driving" article. I would be happy to see travel topic pages on volunteering in all areas of the globe, but you have to start somewhere and I started with Volunteer in Nepal. Majnoona 19:04, 26 Mar 2004 (EST)
I'm all for the big warning at the top, but is there some way to deal with the crummy layout? There's about two pages of white space along the side-bar... I don't get wikimarkup enough to do anything about it, but maybe just moving the sidebar down or something? Help? Majnoona 10:56, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)
Not mention of the civil war?
The article fails to mention that about 60% of the country is under Maoist-rebel controll and that sporadic firefights occur near military bases. There should be quite an extensive section added to it. --18.104.22.168 20:11, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)
- There is a mention in the 'Stay safe' section, but if you feel that more needs to be added, please click the 'edit' button and write. However, please bear in mind that this is a guide not an encyclopedia, so the information should be more traveler based. WindHorse 14 Feb 06
The Parliament has been reinstated by the popular movement in April 2006 (the Jana Andolan-II) So the type of the government should be changed in the Infoox.22.214.171.124 04:30, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
- Please feel free to do so. -- Mark 05:00, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
Regarding the latest addition, are you sure it's a punishable offense to carry the notes, or just unwise? My understanding was that, due to excessive counterfeiting, they were just pretty hard to get rid of... but this is the first I've heard of it being illegal... – cacahuate talk 16:35, 18 April 2007 (EDT)
Carrying Indian currency of 500 is punishable offence under the act! I understand this was due to many bad experiences of fake notes of 500 in the past.
there is nothing else to drink than alcoholic drinks?
- I'm pretty sure you can find water somewhere in the country too... if you know of something that should be added, go ahead and add it to the article or put it here and I'll do it for you... – cacahuate talk 17:54, 29 April 2007 (EDT)
- Sure there's water. With most people doing their 'business' outdoors, it's practically guaranteed to make you sick, so it should always be boiled or chemically treated enough to kill resistant cysts and eggs as well as bacteria and protozoans. A great excuse for adding alcohol prophylactically, even if it doesn't really work. Tea is safer because it's made with boiling water and won't have you stumbling off the trail. LADave 16:47, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
The following comments were added to my Talk page by contributor David. WindHorse 01:06, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
The government's super-zones must have been set up for administrative convenience. They lack geographic, historical & cultural validity. Of course travelers might be better equipped to deal with the bureaucracy if they are somewhat familiar with the government's schema. So let's leave this scheme alone for bureaucratic purposes.
However for other travel purposes it made more sense to me to organize things by drainage basins: (1) Kosi in the east, (2) Bagmati (Kathmandu Valley), (3) most of the Gandaki basin, (4) (west) Rapti and Babai basins and stuff north of them (technically in the Gandaki and Karnali/Bheri basins) through the Dhaulagiri range and valleys behind, and (5) the remainder of the Karnali/Bheri basin and Mahakali up to the Indian border. Perhaps these could be called Kosi, Bagmati, Gandaki, Rapti-Dhaulagiri, and Karnali-Mahakali Regions.
For travel purposes it seemed really unnatural to divide Mid-West and Far-west at the Karnali River! Nepalis and trekkers quickly get across rivers via primitive ferryboats or bridges. Major drainage divides -- these tend to be high ridges -- make more sense than rivers as boundaries. Getting up to these ridges can be a serious hike! Nepalis are as practical as anyone else and try to avoid it, thus drainage divides are cultural divides too.
The way I did it has more historical validity too. Khas peoples speaking the progenitor of Nepali developed their core identity in the Mahakali and Karnali/Bheri basins. They detoured around the Babai/Rapti basins into the Gandaki basin to settle and grow rice. Prithvi Narayan appears there in the 1700s and heads east to conquer the Bagmati region (Kathmandu valley), then the Kosi region beyond. He or his heirs also consolidate the rest of the country -- the "Chaubisi" (24 principality confederation of the Gandaki basin) and the "Baisi" (22 principality confederation of the Karnali/Bheri basin).
Each river-oriented region can also be subdivided by elevation into Terai (Madesi and Tharu), Lower hills (Brahman-Chhetri), upper hills (Magar, Gurung, Tamang, etc.), then Bhote (Tibetan). It may be a little complicated, but travelers exposed to this stuff will be better prepared for "ground truth".
The new district designations are very practical and helpful, and as a frequent visitor to Nepal, your efforts are appreciated. It should be a final goal, however, to produce a totally new hierarchy to replace the government designated zones, and so we could keep the information on the front page short and succinct (like perhaps Bhutan or even India). Do think we could use your list as it stands? It needs to be kept to no more than nine places max (which it is). Under this hierarchy, where are the Solu Khumbu and Dolpo regions. Presumably they are classified under Himalaya? This article might be helpful: Wikitravel:Geographical hierarchy#Regions. Maybe some of the more popular tourist areas could be mentioned in the blurb. What do you think? However, I replaced the dab for Pashupatinath and Dakshinkali as these are just temple complexes, not destinations with hotels like Boudhanath.
Please see: Wikitravel:What is an article?. Anyway, thanks for all your input. Your practical knowledge is very helpful. So, at the moment, do you want to replace the original list with your new hierarchy? That is fine with me. We can tweak as we go along. WindHorse 01:09, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
Moved my detailed discussion of regions to ;Understand' section and put capsule summaries in 'Regions'. I hope this improves flow of this article: lay out key concepts first, develop them later. I also added topic headers under 'Understand' for future development. LADave 14:20, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
Hi Dave, thanks for continuing to add your knowledge and insights to the Nepal page. It is looking good. However, Wikitravel has a policy that lists of places (cities, other destinations etc) should not exceed nine, and so I have removed 4 of the places you recently added to the list. Sorry about that. Anyway, please check to see if you agree with my choice of deletions. The cities that are listed should be chosen by their popularity with tourists, and is drawn up to give them easy access to info, like an index. It is not a promotion of places. Obviously, KTM, Pokhara, Patan, Bhaktapur and Namche Bazaar should be listed, but the others are open. Also, the info on the front page should be kept succinct (see India and Bhutan as examples), and more in depth info should be placed on the actual articles themselves. Anyway, thanks for all your efforts. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me or one of the regular contributors. Take it easy. WindHorse 21:08, 8 June 2007 (EDT) Ps. you might find the info on this page of use: Wikitravel: Manual of style
- Maybe the administrative districts should be tossed out. Development workers need to know them, but not travelers.
So now we have kind of a matrix: south to north and west to east. I think we need to explain both. The south to north is obviously important in understanding the geography. West to east explains the flow of history, as well as certain aspects of geography.
Most treks are along the north-south axis, along rivers and streams. Going east or west means going against the grain with a lot more up and down. Exceptions might be Trisuli(Nuwakot)-Gorkha-Pokhara, Baglung-Dhorpatan(-Jumla), and the Terai or Inner-Terai. This seems to argue for a structure like this:
* Mahakali, Karnali-Bheri, (west) Rapti region
o Terai, Siwaliks and Inner Terai
o Mahabharat Range and Hills
o (repeat elevation structure)
o Kathmandu Valley
o (repeat elevation structure without transhimalaya)
Probably the text about regions can be boiled down some. However after looking at the India article, I don't think the Nepal article has gotten too long. Bhutan is far simpler.
- Hi Dave - Personally, I am fine with replacing the regional list based on administrative zones with a more traveler-based hierarchy. However, irrespective on how we divide up the Cities and Other destinations, they still should not exceed nine. That is the same for a small place like Bhutan or huge countries like China or India, so I'm afraid I have had to revert that edit. Apologies for that. Think of the front page as merely an index in a book. People don't want to be overwhelmed with info at this stage of their search. They just want easy access to the places they seek. Take a look at Wikitravel: Manual of style and Wikitravel:Geographical hierarchy. I think you'll find them useful. Anyway, thanks again for your contributions. They are really helping improve the quality of the Nepal article. Incidentally, any further discussions regarding Nepal should be conducted here so thatother contributors may add their opinions. WindHorse 21:26, 9 June 2007 (EDT)
OK, Let's collapse Kathmandu, Patan and Bhaktapur into a single entry. Something like "Kathmandu (the capital) and its satellite cities Patan and Bhaktapur. Also we can delete Biratnagar, Birganj and Nepalganj in that top-level city list because they are transportation hubs, not tourist destinations. Transportation hubs can be dealt with regionally and in conjunction with itineraries.
For the western half of the country, I would add Tansen, Gorkha (possibly combined with Pokhara) and maybe Jumla. This leaves slots open for tourist destinations in eastern Nepal besides Namche. I hardly know eastern Nepal at all, so let others advocate for their faves.
BTW, -gunj endings (Birgunj, Nepalgunj) break with conventions for transliterating devanagari into roman and should be changed to 'ganj'. 'U' in a transliterated word should always rhyme with 'moo', but the sound we call a 'short u' gets transliterated as 'a', which must be where the confusion arose. 126.96.36.199 05:13, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
- Hi Dave. Combining cities to form one entry has been discussed many times before and rejected. The 'Cities' and 'Other destinations' lists should not exceed 9, and that's the absolute max. Sorry about that (though it was it good suggestion). In addition, if we can draw up a list of nine popular cities for huge countries like India, China and the US, then Nepal should be no problem. So, I suggest Kathmandu, Patan, Bhaktapur, Pokhara and Namche Bazaar. Gorkha is another possible option. As for the others, I'll leave it up to you. However, in making your decision, don't forget that the list of nine cities is to supply info based on majority usage. It is not a promotion. So, if, for example, thousands of people pass through a transportation hub, it is not for me or Wikitravel contributors to deny them easy access to information about that place just because we do not think the town is beautiful or interesting to travelers. If the hard facts state that more people visit, say, Biratnagar than Tansen, then information for Biratnagar should be given priority because more people will be searching for it. It is about offering convenience for popular articles. However, I am not saying that the transportation hubs do receive more visitors than the other towns you mentioned, but am just pointing out the philosophy behind the system. As for changing the names of towns ending in 'gunj' to 'ganj, Wikitravel policy states that the most popular English name has preference, not the official or best transliteration. (Please see: Wikitravel:Article naming conventions), and according to Google hits, Birgunj and Nepalgunj are more popular than Birganj and Nepalganj by a two to one margin. So, based on that, we should leave the names as they are (even though I personally agree with you that 'ganj' is a better transliteration). If you have any questions, please feel free to raise them here. Thanks again for your input. Take it easy. WindHorse 10:46, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
hi Windhorse, the Policy of taking up not the nice places, but the places that are visited most makes of course sense but I think applying it by the amount of people going there is not right.The time spent is I think more important, a majority of travellers might come through Birgunj or Nepalgunj or Biratnagr, but only very few will actually stay there for more than a day or two.Its a question of how you interpret the "hard facts", I think we should deny good information on those hubs because, although many people go there people are not interested in those information.Information on these places is not needed as badly as where the real destination lies.Also it doesn't help you a lot, looking for information about nice places to go in Nepal, to find descriptions of bordertowns where nobody really likes to stay. Although of course these towns are really import for transit.Therefore I think also if its a reinterpretation of the rules it could really improve the site and help people to find out where to go in Nepal.
15.9.2008 (a little late answer but I hope someone will introduce the changes or show me that I am wrong
Hi Dave, I notice that you have changed all the regions. It looks good. However, does the new hierarchy cover the whole country in its entirety? In addition, the new regions will need to be linked to new articles and any useful information from the previous regional articles transferred to these pages. Furthermore, if there is an overlap, the previous regional articles can be redirected to the new pages, but if they are totally incompatible, then we need to submit them for deletion. I think with the new hierarchy, we can perhaps omit the district articles, except with a few famous ones like 'Solu-Khumbu' and just concentrate on the main centers of population. What do you think? Also, we need to replace the original list of regional names, such as Annapurna, Everest, Dolpo etc on the front page as people will look for these. Thanks for all your hard work, and let me know what I can do to help to complete the new set up. WindHorse 00:18, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
The new regional workup is comprehensive. Perhaps a workup on himalayan subranges and noteworthy peaks should be worked into the Understand section. Are there other titles we could ad to 'Understand' to try to solicit contributions? Maybe if we put in 'Mountaineering' someone would actually write it up.
I have linked to all articles I am aware of, except some development region articles that have almost no content. But there may be articles I don't know about yet. If you could post a list, I'll link to any with significant content.
I modified the reference to the food poisoning article slightly. It's a good article with a misleading title. Food poisoning is what you get when food isn't kept hot or cold enough to retard bacterial growth, so toxic metabolic byproducts build up. Botulism would be an extreme example. Treatment is mostly about getting the toxins out of the body or neutralizing them. The article lumps this with issues that might be called 'fecal-oral contamination'. Poor sanitation gets specific disease-causing organisms, cysts or eggs into your body via food and drink. Then treatment tends to involve killing off the organisms that are trying to multiply in your body.
Tropical medicine also seems like a misnomer because Nepal is subtropical, and by the time you reach Kathmandu it's borderline temperate. This rules out many tropical diseases. Some of it still applies, so I kept the link but put it further down in the subtopic. 188.8.131.52 05:53, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
- Hi Dave - thanks for your continued efforts. Actually, the title of the article "Tropical diseases" is incorrect as many of the ailments mentioned are not confined to the tropics. Maybe we need to think of another title. Any ideas?
- I'm not coming up with a memorable title. I'm no M.D., but I think you are correct that all lot of it isn't necessarily tropical, but more accurately third-world. Rabies would be a good example. If you really worked at it you might be able to catch rabies in the U.S., but there would be so many red flags along the way that you wouldn't specially caution tourists about it. The fact that rabies is a significant risk all over Nepal has little to do with climate and lots to do with domestic animals not being vaccinated.
- These kinds of risks must vary from place to place. A catch-all article might have to include too many diseases that are in country X but not Y or Z.
- Maybe the tropical medicine article should limit itself to diseases that are truly tropical, tropical/subtropical, or with risk substantially increasing as it gets warmer/moister (e.g. fungal infections).
- Regarding the list of regions, I was actually referring to the new highlighted titles: Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati. These all need to be tabbed and linked to articles of the same name. For example, we need to set up a new regional article entitled 'Lowlands', which will include a clear description of the area that the region encompasses plus a list of the main centers of population. Without this, towns other than those listed on the main page will be orphaned, meaning they can only be accessed via a direct search. Take a look at Karnataka#Regions as an example. Let me know is I can help with any of this. Thanks again for your efforts. WindHorse 09:42, 11 June 2007 (EDT)...I've just noticed your additions to 'Understand'. Actually, this info pretty much covers the requirements for the independent regional articles. So, once the new articles have been established, this should be moved from the front page and added to these pages. I'll help you with this. Take it easy. WindHorse 10:15, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
- Conceptually it's a matrix or graph. Let's call basins "regions" and elevations (Outer Terai, Siwaliks,...) "zones". Then we could imagine an XY matrix -- regions by zones. But we don't want to go very far with this because zones are just a means of orienting the reader, shorthand for what kind of terrain to expect. OK, so we could organize things by zones to a certain extent: travel destinations in the Outer Terai, in the Siwaliks, in the Inner Terai, ... Beyond that, road trips, treks and rivers are usually multi-zone so we don't want this structure to get too Procrustean. (more to come...)
- Anyway, the priority at the moment is that the new regions (i.e. Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati) get tabbed and new articles with these names are started. If this doesn't happen, then there is a strong possibility that everything will be reverted to its original form, which would be a shame after all the hard work you have put in. In addition, once the new regional articles are set up, then we will need to change the breadcrumb link on the towns to accommodate the new regional names. I'll help you with this. Take it easy. WindHorse 23:15, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
- I've been looking at the divisions more closely. At the moment, we've got Lowlands, Midlands, Himalaya and Transhimalaya, which cover vast tracts of land, and then we've got names of actual river valleys, such as Karnali, Gandaki, Kosi, Mahakali, Rapti and Babai and Bagmati. Nepal is not a huge country, so we should not exceed a categorization that exceeds eight or nine regions. If we use the current sub-regions of the Lowlands, Midlands and Himalaya and Transhimalaya regions (such as 'Outer Terai', 'Kanchenjunga' 'Mahabharat' etc) plus the river basins, we will have far too many regions. So, I'm thinking we should combine two or three of the valleys under one regional title, for example 'Eastern River Valleys', 'Eastern River Valleys' etc. I'm really not familiar with the geography of Nepal at this level, so we need your expertise here. Finally, the regions section should look something like this: Karnataka #Regions or Japan#Regions. Thanks. WindHorse 00:42, 12 June 2007 (EDT)
Restoration of former regional hierarchy
I have restored the former regional hierarchy to allow access to information on districts and cities not listed on the front page. These can be removed when the new hierarchy is complete. WindHorse 09:55, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
- To avoid unnecessary clutter on the main Nepal page, I have placed the the unlinked regional lists on this page (below). They can be restored when they are ready to be linked to articles. Otherwise they can be left here for reference as much of the same info is available on 'Understand' section. WindHorse 10:42, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
Nepal can also be divided into elevation zones from south to north and river basins from west to east.
- Outer Terai - Nepalese territory, but geographically, culturally and linguistically more like adjacent India.
- Siwalik Ranges - outermost range of low foothills.
- Inner Terai - large lowland valleys inside Siwalik Ranges.
- Mahabharat Range or Lesser Himalaya nearly continuous across country, 2,000 to 3,000 meters high, separating lowlands from 'hills' to north.
- Valleys north of Mahabharat Range. These include the wide Kathmandu and Pokhara valleys, as well as narrower valleys along rivers and streams. These are the main rice growing areas in the hills.
- so-called Hills north of Mahabharats, up to midlands habitation limits at about 10,000'/3,000m.
- Lekhs - mountain ranges rising above midlands' permanent habitation zone into subalpine or alpine zone with snow cover in winter but not through summer.
- Himalaya means 'abode of snow', i.e. mountain ranges higher than the permanent snowline. There are about twelve himalayan sub-ranges in Nepal including Kanchenjunga, Khumbu (Everest), Langtang, Ganesh, Annapurna, Dhaulagiri, and Kanjiroba. The highest summits in these ranges usually exceed 22,000'/6,700m. and sometimes exceed 26,000'/8,000m.
- Transhimalaya - In the Karnali and Gandaki basins a number of valleys and lower mountains north of highest ranges fall within in Nepalese territory. This zone is inhabited as high as 17,000'/5,000m. by essentially Tibetan peoples. However in the Kosi basin the transhimalayan zone is in Tibetan territory.
- Three largest basins, west to east:
- Karnali - with major Seti and Bheri tributaries in western Nepal, original homeland of Khas peoples who colonized eastward and now dominate the country. Their language evolved into modern Nepali.
- Gandaki - seven major tributaries in central Nepal. Also a staging area for Khas families who became the country's unifiers and rulers.
- Kosi - also seven major tributaries, in eastern Nepal. The last major region to be conquered by the Shahs and colonized by the Khas.
- Mahakali - extreme western Nepal, west of Karnali basin. The main stem of this river is Nepal's western border with India. Local people may be culturally and linguistically closer to adjacent Uttarakhand state of India than to most Nepalis.
- Rapti and Babai - in mid-western Nepal between Karnali and Gandaki basins. A barrier to Khas expansion because of extensive rugged highlands and very limited rice-growing land north of the Mahabharat Range. South of this range were dangerously malarial valleys.
- Bagmati - between Gandaki and Kosi basins, includes the Kathmandu Valley with the capital and other historic cities.
Cities and Towns
Being familiar with tourist movements around Nepal, and what tourist want I find the Nepal page could do with some updating. May I suggest the following order, in relative order of popularity:
- I recommend including Jiri and Lukla over Namche Bazaar. They are major towns/entry-points on the Classic Everest Base Camp Trek and Everest Base Camp Trek, respectively. Jiri is referred to as the 'Zurich of Nepal' due to the efforts by the Swiss Development Cooperation (SDC) over the last fifty years. In addition, although tourist numbers have dropped by 80% in the last 8 years since the construction of the airport at Lukla, there is a revival along the route as airfare has increased and tourists are avoiding the heavily commercialised routes.
- For travel and tourist purposes Nepalgunj, Birgunj and Biratnagar are informative but thats it, often described as the 'armpit' of Nepal! But as transport hubs they warrant inclusion. Although excluding them would allow for more relevant entries? A link to Lumbini is already sufficient in the Sacred sites section so I would remove Bhairahawa and Dharan although attractive is by no means a major city or tourist destination (it would come under the Kanchenjungha link in the Remote Arreas section?).
- You make some good suggestions. However, on WT places are listed in alphabetical order (with the capital city on top), not by popularity. This saves a lot of arguments, as popularity is very subjective. Personally, I would say Namche is a far more popular place for tourists that either Jiri or Lukla. Basically the bus or plane arrives at these places from KTM, and trekkers immediately head out of town. Only on the return journey do they spend a night while waiting for transportation the next morning. To be frank, there is nothing in either town to attract tourists - just a row of newly constructed lodges. Namche, on the other hand, has several attractions. In addition, it is not unknown for trekkers to use Namche as a base and just do day trips to places like Tengboche or Khumjung etc. No body will stay in Lukla or Jiri longer that necessary. As for Bhairahawa or Dharan, I have no comment as I have not visited these towns. Please feel free to delete them if you can substantiate your reasons... Thanks again for your contributions. They were very helpful WindHorse 03:57, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
Khumbu or SoluKhumbu is a District of Nepal and is covered by the link to Everest Region above. Dhorpatan and Rara Tal are in the Far West, if we put them all under one link that would allow inclusion of more destinations, given that 9 is the max? May I suggest this order:
- Annapurna - This link would include Manang, Muktinath, Mustang… and possibly Pokhara, Sirubari, Gorkha, and oter interesting places on the KTM-Pokhara route
- Everest - Sagarmartha National Park, Everest Base Camp Trek (Lukla), Gokyo Ri, Classic Everest Base Camp Trek (Jiri), Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek, 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'.
- Langtang - Tamang Hertiage Trail
- Chitwan - Safari and Chepang Heritage Trail
- Lumbini - Birthplace of Lord Buddha
- Around Kathmandu Valley - Nagarkot, Dhulikel, Helambu trek and Daman
- Illam - The tea producing 'Darjeeling' of Nepal
- Remote areas -Rowaling Himal, Gaurishankar trekking. Dhauligiri, Manaslu, Kanchenjunga, Dolpo, Mustang and Humla are in remote areas.
- Kathmandu Valley - Perhaps we could put all the sacred sites in the Kathmandu Valley Together? Boudinath, Swayumunath, Pashupatinath, Durbar Square, Patan, Bhaktapur, Parping, Dakshinkali etc
- Lumbini, of course is worthy of its own link or it could lead a 'Buddhist Sites' heading?
- Pilgrimages: Muktinath, Gosaikund, Janaki Temple, Mankamana…
- Sacred Lakes: Nepal has over 500 sacred lakes... Gokyo, Gosaikund, Jata Pokhari, Panch Pokhari, and more
- Buddhist sites / Padmasambhava's sites: Parping, Haleshi, Thulo Sailung…
- Hindu Sites: Janaki etc
Can I suggest reviewing the layout of this section to reflect the following? (formatting/links to be fixed)
- Annapurna Region treks
- Annapurna Circuit: A 3-4 week trek around the Annapurna mountains.
- Jonsom-Muktinath Trek: The last week of the Annapurna Circuit, done in the opposite direction. Known as the "Apple-Pie Trek" partly for crossing the apple growing region of Nepal.
- Annapurna Sanctuary Trek
- The Royal Trek
- Everest Region treks
- Everest Base Camp Trek: Stunning scenery, Wonderful people. See 'Regions' - Khumbu
- Mera Peak Climbing: Enjoy panoramic views of Mt. Everest (8,848 m; 29,030 ft), Cho-Oyu (8,201 m; 26,910 ft), Lhotse (8,516 m; 27,940 ft), Makalu (8463 m; 27,770 ft), Kangchenjunga (8,586 m; 28,170 ft), Nuptse (7,855 m; 25,770 ft), and Chamlang (7,319 m; 24,010 ft).
- Island Peak Trek in the Everest region takes in some of the most spectacular scenery in the Himalayas.
- Gokyo Ri
- Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek,
- 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'
- Langtang and Helambu region treks
- Langtang Trek
- Tamang Heritage Trail
- Helambu Langtang Trek: Relatively easy Trek from Kathmandu
Tourism is a dynamic sector of economy and accepting it as a vehicle of poverty reduction is a relatively new concept in Nepal. In the rural Nepal context, pro-poor tourism means expanding employment and small enterprise opportunities especially pro-Indigenous Peoples, youth and pro-women. Recent pro-poor initiaves in Nepal include the UNDP-TRPAP and ILO-EMPLED projects. According to the NTB rural tourism in Nepal focuses on "Village Trek" visits to indigenous people that “… will make tourists, experience rural life and Nepalese hospitality off the beaten path with all the beautiful scenery and cultural diversity of Nepal.”
- Jiri-Pike-Dudh Kunda-Renjo La Trek,
- 'Numbur Cheese Circuit'
- 'Indigenous Peoples Trail'
- Tamang Heritage Trail
- Chepang Heritage Trail
- 'Ethno-Tourism' or Cultural Treks
Ethno-tourism is an increasingly popular in Nepal. Ethno-tourism is a specialized type of cultural tourism and can be defined as any excursion which focuses on the works of humans rather than nature, and attempts to give the tourist an understanding of the lifestyles of local people.
- 'Numbur Cheese Trek' in the Everest Region
- 'Indigenous Peoples Trail' in Ramechhap
- 'Majhi Fishing Experience' on the 'Sun Koshi'
- Helambu Trek in Langtang
- Tamang Heritage Trail in Langtang
- Chepang Heritage Trail in Chitwan
Social Responsible Trekking Companies:
Can we review this section? Just because a tour operator has been in operation for 20 years or is run by a friendly Sherpa family (as much as I do love them) that does NOT make them 'socially responsible'. Operators are 'socially responsible' only if they promoting proper porter treatment and cultural and environmental sensitivity among their clients in line with MAST and the UN-WTO Sustainable Tourism Criteria 
Can we make a separate heading for 'Other tour operators' to include Friendship Nepal Tours. Or even better can we exclude tour operators who are not openly committed to social responsibility and promoting policies on porters' rights and working conditions? This means deleting them, but I am happy to put it back in if they join MAST! 
There has been a lot of discussion on Nepal's regions, and now I'm trying to get a map of it. But it isn't easy: many regions have been called before, but there is still no clarity on them whatsoever. Could anyone help out in this matter? I try not to use government regions, but travel regions instead. We have the elevation system (which goes north-south) and the river basin system (which goes east-west), and it's pretty hard to combine both systems in a regional division as they overlap.
Now i got nine (!) elevation regions from south to north:
- Outer Terai
- Siwalik Range
- Inner Terai
- Mahabharat Range
- Middle Hills
Then I got five river-basins, west to east:
- Karnali (with Seti and Behri) (large basin)
- Rapti and Babai (small basin, can combine with gandaki)
- Gandaki (large basin)
- Bagmati (Kathmandu Valley) (small basin, though important)
- Koshi (large basin)
I can combine the elevation regions to three regions (Terai, Midlands and Himalayas). But then what about the river-basins? We could make it Karnali, Gandaki, Bagmati and Koshi, but these regions overlap with the elevation regions. How could we combine this? We need to come to around 6-8 top-level regions all spread over the country, making use of all these geographic elements. I hope someone with better knowledge of the country can help out. --globe-trotter 22:55, 1 January 2010 (EST)
- No replies unfortunately, but i've done a lot of reading, and got to the following region scheme (based off the elevation regions):
- Kathmandu Valley
- Middle Hills
- Western Tarai
- Eastern Tarai
I followed the mountain ranges as they give an indication to the traveller what kind of landscape to expect in the area (and thus what to do there). Also, these geographic boundaries have led to cultural boundaries as well, so the traveller can more easily grasp the historical, cultural and ethnic differences of Nepal. I split the Tarai range up, simply because there are a lot of towns there. I considered a similar split for the Middle Hills, but there is not much to do in the "Eastern Middle Hills", so instead I chose to take the Kathmandu Valley out of there (as it's a major tourist destination by itself). Of course changes can still be made, so I'm always open for comments.
—globe-trotter 16:00, 2 January 2010 (EST)
- That's a really pretty map. I'd recommend waiting a good week at least to see if any other contributors know enough about the country to add advice. If no, then plunge forward and add it to the article. --Peter Talk 16:30, 2 January 2010 (EST)
Whilst accepting that Nepal is just the sort of destination where we do need some tour listings, there is a long list here, all in violation of WT policy on tours - no addresses etc. This needs looking at by someone familiar with the country.--Burmesedays 06:54, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
New region categorization
Hello everybody! User ValTum has recently created new region page for Nepal, called Far West Nepal. Since the page is not in line with our current division for the regions, I decided to reach out to user ValTum to decide what we should do with this page. I would like to ask the community and people who know Nepal to contribute to the conversation below if we should keep the current regions or if we should change them. Thank you.
The conversation below was taken from User talk:ValTum.
Hello! I saw that you contributed mainly to this article. I nominated it, however, for deletion because of the following reasons:
- I don't see it being in line with our Region Categories on Nepal page. It all has to be nicely organized on Wikitravel and before creating any new region pages, it should be discussed within our community. Let's do it right now and decide if we need the page or not.
- It does not follow our standard template for regions.
- Lots of content is copied from other pages. We only accept original content on Wikitravel
I will wait for your response before deleting the page. If something is unclear, please let me know. Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 14:30, 2 May 2014 (EDT)
- Dear IBAlex hello, Thanks a lot for your msg and comments.
- *Far-western Nepal is really one of 5 regions of Nepal, which needs information given about. It is lack of information one can find about the attractions and touristic destinations in this region. According to the wikitravel rule i started creating this article by creating the link on Nepal page. There are many mentioning to find about this region.
For example here:
"Belahia, Bhairahawa (Rupandehi, Western Nepal)
Jamunaha, Nepalgunj (Banke, Mid Western Nepal)
Mohana, Dhangadhi (Kailali, Far Western Nepal)
Gaddachauki, Mahendranagar (Kanchanpur, Far Western Nepal)"
I am sure that travel community will be thankful to find information in wikitravel about this region. I am working in tourism and travelling a lot. By coming to War West Nepal I was trying to find info, but information whether not up-to-date or not accurate at all. That's why lets do this region page be.
- we can adjust it to the standard/ template for regions. The only thing i changed, i put "understand" in the bottom of article. The rest is according to the template. the text i prepeared in word, so they have been written by me and my friend.
- By the way, another user was editing this page is friend of mine. I didnt know how to upload the pictures, and he uploaded i guess one of them. But we can do it from one account. So we were not aware about that rule.
- Let me know what do you think by having this region page. thanks. —The preceding comment was added by ValTum (talk • contribs)
- ValTum, thanks for getting back to me. Happy to hear you want to help and develop the page. What we need, however, is the structure. Please look at the region section on the Nepal page. Regions here are already categorized. Where in relationship to this already existing order would you put Far West Nepal? Would you added it as a subsection? If yes, where? Thank you! Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 21:22, 2 May 2014 (EDT)
- Good Morning IBAlex, thanks for your answer. Having the existing order at the region section on the Nepal, Far West Nepal could go together with . However  covers only a couple of destinations located in the the southern part of Far West Nepal. The thing is that the current region structure on the Nepal does not cover attractions in the Western part of hiily area nor western part of Himalayas. The current structure region on the Nepal made according physiographic division of Nepal, but not the regions or the current touristic routes or transport connectivity, entry points and so on, that's why i guess it was difficult for the author to write "get in", "get around", "talk" and so on. Maybe to fit Far West Nepal to the current structure we could relink Far West Nepal at  first. Thanks for your support, and kind regards, Valeria —The preceding comment was added by ValTum (talk • contribs)
- Dear IBAlex, i have found the page to http://wikitravel.org/en/Mid_Western_Nepal (it is neiboring region to FarWest Nepal). Ok, it is not finlized though, but we can try to put some more information here also. —The preceding comment was added by ValTum (talk • contribs)
- Hello Valeria! Thanks for your messages! I appreciate that! Since Western Tarai covers some of the destinations from Far West Nepal, how about we add them to Western Tarai and the rest of the content from Far West Nepal will be added to other regions, Middle Hills ?? If this sounds like a good idea we can do the same then with Mid Western Nepal. In this way we will avoid having two different ways of categorizing regions in Nepal. We want to have everything neat and organized in our guides so that traveler don't get confused. Please let me know if this solution sounds good to you. Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 15:22, 5 May 2014 (EDT)
- Hello IBAlex, Thanks for your reply on it. What we can do is, we can add information on attractions in the current categorization, we can work on adding the attractions from FarWest in existing regions: Western Tarai, Middle hills, Himalayas. But i am thinking it would be difficult to add info "get in" and some other important things, which are specific for Far West Region and so imporntant for visitors (different langaugues, accessibility and so on) What is saying against to have both categorization? It is like with USA. They have it on bigger rigions on the main page about USA, and then every state has separate one. So, NEpal can have it like this and to each of 5 regions??? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_Regions_of_Nepal. Thanks on your opinion to this solution. Kind regards —The preceding comment was added by ValTum (talk • contribs)
- Hello! Thanks for your message! We cannot have 2 different categories for the same country because it will make our guides unorganized and travelers will be confused. USA page has just one categorization- 13 regions and within each region we have sub-regions (states) and then again within the states we have even smaller regions. I would like to see something like that on the Nepal page as well. We don't concentrate on administrative regions. Region articles tend to be more "soft", discussing the people, culture, climate, and cuisine in the region, rather than the legalistic stuff that's in a country article. Here is a template that explains that in more details.
- So, the question right now is which categorization describes better cultural regional divisions of Nepal? I'm not an expert here:) Are you in Nepal? Do you know it well?
- Here, I can give you the rationale for the current regional categorization that users discussed before. The user that created the regions says: I've done a lot of reading, and got to the following region scheme (based off the elevation regions): Kathmandu Valley, Himalayas, Middle Hills, Western Tarai, Eastern Tarai. I followed the mountain ranges as they give an indication to the traveller what kind of landscape to expect in the area (and thus what to do there). Also, these geographic boundaries have led to cultural boundaries as well, so the traveller can more easily grasp the historical, cultural and ethnic differences of Nepal. I split the Tarai range up, simply because there are a lot of towns there. I considered a similar split for the Middle Hills, but there is not much to do in the "Eastern Middle Hills", so instead I chose to take the Kathmandu Valley out of there (as it's a major tourist destination by itself). Of course changes can still be made, so I'm always open for comments.
- Knowing that we always have the traveler in mind, what do you think would be best solution here? Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 14:47, 6 May 2014 (EDT)
- ValTum, I would like to thank you and encourage you to keep up with your work on adding new information about Nepal. As for the subject of dividing Nepal into regions: it's a bit hard to tell for me as I'm not more than a novice to Nepal. But for me the rationale quoted by IBAlex sounds pretty solid. So is it possible for you to try to add new information into "Western Tarai" and "Middle Hills" region first? And then if "Middle Hills" gets really big then split it into Eastern and Western part. And only if all this won't work by some reason then you'll raise this issue again. But just start with the current regions and see if it can work out like that. Best --Dronych (talk) 18:42, 6 May 2014 (EDT)
IBAlex, thanks for bringing this topic for discussion here. Maybe we can get more ideas what is a better categorization for the regions in Nepal.
Dronych, thanks for giving your opinion.
I agree with the author who suggested current structure highlighting Kathmandu valley, and Himalayas as well as Chitwan as tourism is concentrated in these regions at the moment. But at the same time the new destinations are coming in the western part of Nepal. For example: in Himalayas we have now new destinations with Dolpo region in the western part, with Rara national Park and in the Farwestern region two routes to the Saipal camp base and Api Namap Conservation Area. To get to there you have to go first to the cities in the mid-far-western Tarai, then go through mid-farwestern middle hills. As usual the tourists combine the hikes in the hilly areas in the western middle hills with the treks in the western himalayas. Other common combination, which is coming up also in the offer of tour operators is triangles: national parks in the mid-farwestern tarai with the national parks like Khaptad national Park located in the farwestern middle hills. It is so important to get for the travellers this information!! in terms of cultural differences: yes, there are huge cultural differences in the middle hills in the central Nepal as well as Kathmandu Valley, the same with the eastern part of the middle hills, and western part. Even in Himalayas, in the farwestern part of Himalyas you will meet ethnic groups you cannot find in Anapurna or Everest regions.
My suggestion for the improvement of the current structure:
2) Eastern middle hills (Ilam)
3) Kathmandu Valley
4) Central middle hills (Pokhara, Gorkha, Tencsen Dhorpatan Hunting reserve and etc.)
5) Western middle hills (Khaptad NP, Ramaroshan Area, Jajarkot)
6) Eastern Tarai ( Janakpur, Koshi Taphu Wildlife Reserve, Biratnagar)
7) Central Tarai (Chitwan National Park, Lumbini)
8) Western Tarai (Bardia National Park, Suklaphanta Wildlife Reserve / with ethnic groups Chaudhary and Rana Tharu)
Kinest regards, Valeria
Hi everyone, sorry for jumping in this discussion a bit late. Administratively speaking, Nepal is divided in five Development region Eastern, Central, Western, Mid western and Far Western. If we are targeting to divide the regions in Nepal in terms of administrative ones then this would be an ideal choice. Each development region includes some part of Terai, Hills and mountains. This way of dividing the region can be helpful. Here is an image of Development region http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Nepal_development_regions.png
I am from Nepal so if you are looking for some information, do remember me, I would be happy to help you out.