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Revision as of 05:43, 3 August 2004 by Secretlondon (talk | contribs) (I'm not sure about "The German postal service is reliable, if still suffering a little from being a state-owned company." which seems to be input of politics. I've left it in to see what the consensus)
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I know there are lots of Turks in Hessen. What about other parts of Germany? -phma 09:36, 11 Jan 2004 (EST)

They are a large minority everywhere in Germany. I am not so sure about Eastern Germany, but in the west they are the largest ethnic group afaik. Nils 16:24 Jan 11th 2004 CET

Store Opening Hours

What hours do shops run by Jews keep? How should one who keeps Shabbat cope with shops being closed on Sunday? -phma 09:36, 11 Jan 2004 (EST)

A law is a law is a law applies to all citizens. Nils 16:24 Jan 11th 2004 CET
What does the law say? Where can I read it? The Biblical law states that we shall work six days and rest the seventh, so if a German citizen follows that law, he has a conflict of law. -phma 23:37, 11 Jan 2004 (EST)
There is no biblical law in Germany. Religion and state are (supposed to be) strictly seperate. Of course Germany is a christian society, more or less, so you have some leftovers like the free day of the week happening to be sunday. Opening hours used to be much stricter on all days. I have to guess, really, but I assume that for a very long time, Germany's (very influential) unions have prevented a total liberalisation of opening/business hours. -- [User:Nils|Nils]] January 12th, 2004 14:38 (CET)
The German government announcement of the new hours is here. I don't see any exceptions for Jewish store owners or for stores that cater to Jews. If there is an exception, we should note it. If not, I'm not sure there's much point in saying, The stores are closed on Sunday. If you keep Shabbat, this means you should get all your shopping done by Friday afternoon, or you might run out of stuff before the stores open on Monday. I don't think anyone needs our help making minor leaps of logic.
That said, it seems that some gas stations have markets open after-hours. I know from personal experience in Switzerland that this counts for Sundays, too -- but I don't know for Germany, though. --Evan 02:29, 12 Jan 2004 (EST)
As I (and the article you quote) mentioned, the exceptions are for gas-stations, airports and trainstations. Germany does have some special provisions/concessions for Jews, but special opening hours are not part of them. -- [User:Nils|Nils]] January 12th, 2004 14:38 (CET)

Tiny Towns

Someone keeps adding this weird Vallendar place. Really, please, stop cluttering up the country page with insignjificant villages. If you absolutely must, make a subpage "complete list of cities in Germany" or something... if some place draws a total of like a few hundred students then it's a special interests place at best. If we add every 5000 people town to the country page, it'll get quite long. Nils 20:14, 19 Mar 2004 (EST)

  • I do not see the harm in collecting other Germany tourist destination articles on the main Germany page. At this time, there seem so few articles about Germany, some wierd ones (and it is only one) would help enlighten the place. However, I created Rhineland-Palatinate in response to this. Somebody else wrote about Vallendar, put it on the Germany page, then the link got deleted. It keeps coming back because it is an Orphan Page. I have now added it to the Rhineland-Palatinate article. If you do not want it on this, or that page, then add it to a page where you do want it, otherwise it will keep being put back by anyone doing orphan page maintenance. -- Huttite 18:34, 20 Mar 2004 (EST)
According to the manual of style, the "Cities" section is for the major cities in the country -- the ones that travellers will be looking for first. It's a navigation aid to short-circuit drilling down through one or two levels of regions to get to a common city. It should not be used just to list all the cities in the country -- as Nils points out, this would be unreasonable.
New and inexperienced contributors often put cities onto the country page because they don't know where else to put them. Often this happens because the region pages aren't yet filled out. It's important to remember that we want all travellers' help. If people make a mistake adding links, we should just move them to the right place.
Huttite, you did exactly the right thing: making a stub region page, and putting the city link there instead. Exactly the right thing to do. Thanks. --Evan 21:00, 20 Mar 2004 (EST)

Hierarchy in articles

For the regions of Germany, I simply copied the list of German states from the CIA factbook, and found English equivalents. I doubt if these political divisions really work for travel regions, and there's too many of them, anyways. Can someone more familiar with Germany take a poke at a more reasonable region breakdown? --Evan 12:24, 2 Dec 2003 (PST)

So, we need to figure out what to do about regions in Germany. Whenever I see a pseudo-hierarchy like this, it's a clear sign that we're messing up.

Is the breakdown by rough geographical region, then by federal state, about what we can do here? Are there any other, more traditional or "natural" regions we could use instead?

If not, we need to make articles for North (Germany), etc. and move the lists of states to each of those. Right now I don't think they'll make very interesting articles, though. --Evan 11:35, 6 Apr 2004 (EDT)

No, don't move them. We have far too many one-line articles. There are some distinct regions, but you can't really nail them with state boundaries. "Norddeutschland" (Northern Germany) for example is Lower Saxony and everything north of it; it's sort of like flat, coastal, with agricultural towns, port cities, and so on. Other ideas for regions would be north sea coast, baltic region, East Germany (the former GDR), Alpine, Rhine land, and I am sure many I am not thinking of right now. Specialized guides for these regions might make sense. For example, it'd be a good idea to make a page about the rhine valley/area, with all the pictureque towns, castles, and so on.
But until someone actually writes them, just leave the regions as they are now. We'll use them as a starting point (nobody really seems to add much except dead links to tiny towns). Germany is pretty small, there are regional differences but not many. Regional pages are mostly useful to go into greater detail. -- Nils 16:44, 8 Apr 2004 (EDT)
One-line articles eventually become full articles. We express the geographical hierarchy through multiple articles, not hierarchical lists on pages. Think of each as a chapter in our "Germany" guidebook. It may not have a large amount of info on its own, but it "contains" a number of smaller articles.
Of course, the goal is to have meaningful regions that hang together well. That's why I asked in the first place. --Evan 11:20, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Drinking in public

Is drinking in public really "frowned upon"? In the country that gave us Oktoberfest? I mean, a bar is a public place. Does the author really mean "drinking in the street" or "drinking out of doors"? This could be misleading - can a German, or someone more familiar with Germany than me clarify this, please? - Sjc196 15:03, 15 Apr 2004 (GMT)

Ah, it's a difficult question. Obviously, many people have different "standards". Basically, the idea is that alcohol consumptions in places not designed for it is a bad idea. For example, nobody cares if you have a can of beer at a picnic. But if you have the same can of beer in the subway, people will mentally brand you as a hobo or something similar. They probably won't say anything. It gets worse when you appear to be a chronic drunk, or if you are actually drunk and behaving loudly etc. -- Nils 15:49, 15 Apr 2004 (EDT)

High vs Low German

While I commend the anonymous' submitter's attempt to correct the use of the word Hochdeutsch into its original linguistic meaning, the common usage of the term clearly refers to the official form of German. While the exact definition is probably important when you are discussing linguistics, this is a travel guide. The explanation adds nothing for a traveller, on the contrary, it will just confuse people. The only reason I mention the term is to define what the "standard" is, so that I can afterwards "warn" of the difficult dialects. Let's leave exact scientific definitions to our friends at Wikipedia. :-) -- Nils 03:51, 16 Apr 2004 (EDT)

High German, in the linguistic sense, I've seen called Oberdeutsch, and wrote so in the French version of the German phrasebook. Also, there is no such thing as speaking a language without an accent. A native accent is still an accent. -phma 23:48, 16 Apr 2004 (EDT)
I guess I meant dialects, really. -- Nils 06:17, 18 Apr 2004 (EDT)


I reverted several parts of the article to older versions. The additions/changes were in my opinion of very low quality, misleading, unhelpful and/or even false. -- Nils

HC Link

Cjensen edited out the Hospitality Club link I had added, and gave this reason: "Remove HC link. Don't need to dup all home-exchange links into every country." I just re-added it. There is no other hospitality exchange network with even closely those 3500 member the HC has in Germany - all those members are a true travel asset for any independant traveler to Germany. And neither were there "all home-exchange links" nor is Germany "every country".Veit 23:06, 10 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Travelling by train

The Sparpreis stuff is not accurate any more as far as I see. But although living in Germany and using the Deutsche Bahn quite often I cannot correct it because I use the Bahncard usually. --EBB 16:31, 25 Jul 2004 (EDT)

We probably should not list special offers anyway. They change too rapidly. Someone wishing to travel by train is better served to just check the DB website. I have revised the "Get around/By train" section accordingly. -- Nils 07:20, 26 Jul 2004 (EDT)
I improved the "getting around by train" section once again. See my summary. --EBB 09:26, 26 Jul 2004 (EDT)

I'm not sure about "The German postal service is reliable, if still suffering a little from being a state-owned company." which seems to be input of politics. I've left it in to see what the consensus is. Caroline 01:39, 3 Aug 2004 (EDT)