Older or specialized discussion can be found in the archives.
Hierarchy in articles
For the regions of Germany, I simply copied the list of German states from the CIA factbook, and found English equivalents. I doubt if these political divisions really work for travel regions, and there's too many of them, anyways. Can someone more familiar with Germany take a poke at a more reasonable region breakdown? --Evan 12:24, 2 Dec 2003 (PST)
So, we need to figure out what to do about regions in Germany. Whenever I see a pseudo-hierarchy like this, it's a clear sign that we're messing up.
Is the breakdown by rough geographical region, then by federal state, about what we can do here? Are there any other, more traditional or "natural" regions we could use instead?
If not, we need to make articles for North (Germany), etc. and move the lists of states to each of those. Right now I don't think they'll make very interesting articles, though. --Evan 11:35, 6 Apr 2004 (EDT)
Alright guys, brought this section up to highlight it for the time being. I think it's terrible Germany doesn't have a good regional breakdown by now, so I'm going ahead to make a Germany regions map. I noticed this old discussion, but apparently it never led to any decisions, and the pseudo-heirarchy presented in the article is definitely not aimed for tourism. Right now, everything's broken down into the political Bundesländer (states), but that doesn't really fit a tourist itinerary the best. Most guides would break Germany into regions such as Black Forest, Rhine Valley, North/Baltic Sea Coasts, East Germany, ... (not all inclusive), but these regions do not fit to state boundaries and would leave some parts out.
Also, it looks like in the meantime the heirarchy at the site has been developed into a Bundesländer-style hierarchy, with regions like the Rhine Valley falling under other states. Because of that, I'm going to aim my regional map towards showing all the states. Also, I propose that we incorporate these other regions as itinerary pages. Just a bunch of thoughts to try to get the ball rolling again. Hopefully I'll have my map uploaded within the next couple days, if we do decide to switch to another regional system it should be easy enough to modify. Let's get some discussion going on this, Germany's such an important tourist destination, hopefully we can do it justice soon. hokiesvt 04:44, 17 March 2009 (EDT)
The speed limits are partially wrong. You may drive 100 km/h on Kraftfahrstraßen inside towns and cities. And the no-speed-limit-part only applies to Autobahnen! Kraftfahrstraßen have a speed limit of 100 km/h. If there is a barrier between the lanes, the speed limit for Kraftfahrstraßen is 120 km/h.
The recommended speed of 130 km/h on Autobahnen (called "Richtgeschwindigkeit") plays a role if an accident happens because if you drive faster than 130 you will always get a joint guilty - even if you didn't cause the accident. --188.8.131.52 17:29, 1 December 2006 (EST)
Bullshit. Kraftfahrstrassen (motorways) have no special rules. For roads with separated carriageways OR two or more lanes for each direction, outside built-up areas (geschlossene Ortschaft, the yellow signs), no (implicit) speed limits apply.
--184.108.40.206 19:17, 12 April 2010 (EDT)
I know there are lots of Turks in Hessen. What about other parts of Germany? -phma 09:36, 11 Jan 2004 (EST)
Nearly every bigger city in the western part of germany (and Berlin) has a turkish community.
In East-Germany, also known as DDR or GDR, many Vietnamese (you may know that both countries were/are socialistic systems) were working. You see, this is a heritage of the political past.220.127.116.11 19:58, 7 April 2012 (EDT)
Store Opening Hours
What hours do shops run by Jews keep? How should one who keeps Shabbat cope with shops being closed on Sunday? -phma 09:36, 11 Jan 2004 (EST)
-- Thursday 27th, 2006 20:59 (MEZ)
Which European countries require even Jewish shops to close on Sunday? --18.104.22.168 04:15, 15 February 2012 (EST)
Someone keeps adding this weird Vallendar place. Really, please, stop cluttering up the country page with insignjificant villages. If you absolutely must, make a subpage "complete list of cities in Germany" or something... if some place draws a total of like a few hundred students then it's a special interests place at best. If we add every 5000 people town to the country page, it'll get quite long. Nils 20:14, 19 Mar 2004 (EST)
as Germanies major cities and all the rest should go into a B) listing called a Alphabetical list of German cities. That would make a tidy up more effective because we don't have remove Vallendar, Bonn etc. all the time. Plus it make navigation easier, you dont' have to know in which country a particular city is.
Jens 14:20, 12 oct 2004 (EST)
Mb1302 08:54, 15 Aug 2008 (MEST)
Just a small notice in the first place. I see that you have no idea. In Germany its not important to have the most biggest cities. Its more value to have nice and charming cities, not like in America, just as big as possible. Also to mention is Dresden, Cologne, Düsseldorf with the whole "Ruhrgebiert". They might not be as big as New York, but they are more lovely.
Drinking in public
Is drinking in public really "frowned upon"? In the country that gave us Oktoberfest? I mean, a bar is a public place. Does the author really mean "drinking in the street" or "drinking out of doors"? This could be misleading - can a German, or someone more familiar with Germany than me clarify this, please? - Sjc196 15:03, 15 Apr 2004 (GMT)
just to give you guys an idea, in Germany it is not prohibited to drink in public. The only thing is, that germans dont like it so much, but there is no law against it. Just in clarified areas such like an airport or a trainstation it can be prohibited, cause its private, so they can have there own rules.
I'd say thats mainly for excessive drinking in public and depends not only on the context but also the time of day. In cities with a lively nightlife you may see people predrinking before going to a club etc.
High vs Low German
While I commend the anonymous' submitter's attempt to correct the use of the word Hochdeutsch into its original linguistic meaning, the common usage of the term clearly refers to the official form of German. While the exact definition is probably important when you are discussing linguistics, this is a travel guide. The explanation adds nothing for a traveller, on the contrary, it will just confuse people. The only reason I mention the term is to define what the "standard" is, so that I can afterwards "warn" of the difficult dialects. Let's leave exact scientific definitions to our friends at Wikipedia. :-) -- Nils 03:51, 16 Apr 2004 (EDT)
That's not correct. Hochdeutsch is the German standard which indeed was developed essentially from Mitteldeutsch and Oberdeutsch, but not essentially from Niederdeutsch, the latter being similar to Dutch, English and Frisian.22.214.171.124 17:53, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
just to give you guys an idea, in Germany it is not prohibited to drink in public. The only thing is, that germans dont like it so much, but there is no law against it. Just in clarified areas such like an airport or a trainstation it can be prohibited, cause its private, so they can have there own rules.
Gay and Lesbian
Gay and Lesbian Marriages are not permitted in Germany. Even the law does not make a difference between hetero and homosexual marriages, the highest court went out of its way to prohibit homosexual marriages. As a result a special law about civil union was issued, which in turn is not open to heterosexual couples. Now the parliament struggles to bring both laws close to each other because the Basic Law (constitution) talks about equal rights for everyone. 126.96.36.199 02:44, 18 May 2007 (EDT)
188.8.131.52 08:13, 25 July 2007 (EDT)
Cjensen edited out the Hospitality Club link I had added, and gave this reason: "Remove HC link. Don't need to dup all home-exchange links into every country." I just re-added it. There is no other hospitality exchange network with even closely those 3500 member the HC has in Germany - all those members are a true travel asset for any independant traveler to Germany. And neither were there "all home-exchange links" nor is Germany "every country".Veit 23:06, 10 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Travelling by train
The Sparpreis stuff is not accurate any more as far as I see. But although living in Germany and using the Deutsche Bahn quite often I cannot correct it because I use the Bahncard usually. --EBB 16:31, 25 Jul 2004 (EDT)
I'm not sure about "The German postal service is reliable, if still suffering a little from being a state-owned company." which seems to be input of politics. I've left it in to see what the consensus is. Caroline 01:39, 3 Aug 2004 (EDT)
I all my life in Germany, I never used another railway company than Deutsche Bahn AG. So to keep this article a guide for tourists and not a complete listing of the German railway system, I vote for removing this part from the article
I'm new to this Wikitravel thing, and I think I quite like it, but I don't like this article. I know that there are people out there who really like cars and Autobahnen, and although I don't quite understand that, I tolerate it of course. But do we have to let this make out such a big part of the article? Also, while this 'go as fast as you like' story is true in principle, it is very misleading in detail. If I'm not totally wrong, the rules are:
But I don't want to do nothing but complain, so here are some (idiosyncratic) propositions about what visitors might find interesting:
Maybe I shall add some of these myself, but I won't have much time for now (plus, somebody would have to de-Germish-ify that, hum), so I just wanted to propose something.
I can de-germish-ify what you write. I just did a first run over the wine section. Though, to be honest, I can only de-germish-ify when I'm sure of what the author meant to say. I'm putting a change into the wine section right now that I'm not sure is correct, as a trial balloon. --Jae 07:09, 19 Jan 2005 (EST)
I'm also new to editing - but i found what I think is an omission in the rail fares section: the BahnCard 100. I'll just put it in - please remove it if you deem it inappropriate... --RealUlli 23:58, 6 Nov 2006 (CET)
My english is really to bad for writing something about the famous Schweinsbraten you can get in Bavaria, so i hope you can help me out with the rest.
Maybe we can make another Part for food with the german Brathähnchen.
Schweinsbraten mit Knödeln : a very common meal you can get in Bavaria. You can get it everywhere else in Germany too, but the Bavarian Schweinsbraten in my opinion is the best. It normally swims in a nice Beersauce
Since Helmut Kohl was chancellor for 16 years its quite well-known but not necessarily popular. I for my share have often heard about it but never tried it. 184.108.40.206 12:08, 5 April 2009 (EDT)
"On the other hand, German libraries are not free as in the USA, not even for browsing. Be sure to purchase a ticket before entering."
I don't think that's correct. Though I have only been to two public libraries (the one of my hometown and the one of my university) but both are without entrance fee, in fact I haven't even heard about public libraries with entrance fee. Of course you have to be a student at the university to lend books there and for the public library of my hometown you have to register yourself and pay 20 Eur/year if you want to lent a book. I don't know how this works in the States, it may be a difference though. -- Gorgo 18:21, 12 Jul 2005 (EDT)
Libraries in Germany mever ask for entrance fees. If you want to get something you have to pay a small fee and get a membership card. I don´t know if they issue these cards for foreigners. You ca always spend the hole day in public libraries and read hatever you want in there. University libraries are open until 10pm. Peter
It would be nice if someone could provide links to various regional rail lines. I also would like to know if you can just get on a train and pay the conductor for the ticket, and if you can do that how much is the supplement. I am interested in an article on Christmas markets in Germany and would be willing to work on that. I don't know where that would link. Nkb
There is one rail line - DB. And you need to buy a ticket in advance. Otherwise the fine would be 60 Euro. 220.127.116.11
I'm wondering if the following content is a Wikitravel:Slippery slope leading to web site reviews (ie "the ui is better... etc). I'm also wondering about the number of sites given, do we really want an exhaustive review, or to simply state that these sites (maybe with one or two examples) exisit? Majnoona 10:33, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)
Mitfahrzentrale also has offices in major cities and charges a small commision. You need to ring the agency to obtain the driver's number and you can rate the driver after you travel.Mitfahrgelegenheit is a more private-run affair. You can contact the driver directly by email, phone or sms, and the user interface on the site is a bit more user friendly. Similar to the later are Drive2day and HitchHikers.
Sorry, that is not correct, the fine is 40€.
Getting around by bicycle?
Alas I don't speak German, but I do live in Germany and I travel frequently by bicycle to the towns surrounding my area. Should travel by bicycle be considered a way to "get around"? On most local trains and some ICE bicycle carriage is permitted, albeit at a fee. Also, in rural areas there are some very nice and some not so nice bike trails that go between major cities. I have also met some Germans at youth hostels who are biking across Germany or at least around a certain state. Is this considered by wikitravel to be a way to get around? Should it have its own article? 18.104.22.168 04:50, 19 April 2006 (EDT)foidulus
Hi. This may be a rather unimportant issue, but it says in the article that food and wine at the cheaper discounters may be of "poor quality". As far as my experience goes, and to what I read here and there, that is not the case at all. It is often stated that some of the cheaper products available at discounters are of a better quality than higher-priced ones at the up-scale supermarkets. As for wine, an acquaintance of mine is a real gourmet (he doesn't hesitate to spend € 200 on a bottle of really good wine), and he says that some of the not-so-cheap wines at the discounters are actually excellent. I'd like to strike the respective sentence. Cheers, Krankman 15:58, 9 September 2006 (EDT)
I know for a fact that many - if not most - large quality food brands sell their stuff at the discount markets as well. They just label them different and alter the taste (smell, appearance) a little so its not too obvious. So I don't agree with the 'poor quality' statement.--22.214.171.124 14:22, 17 September 2007 (EDT)
"That is the first product in the chain of "Apfelwein" production; one glass of it is nice, but after two or three glasses you will have a problem." I am not sure what that means. Digestive problems? Heartburn? Hang-over? Could someone please elaborate? Thanks. Krankman 16:54, 9 September 2006 (EDT)
I removed the routes usable by SchönesWochenende section, as it was a humongous amount of very specific text to scroll through on a page about general Germany. My original thought was to put it on a page of its own and link, but it did not seem to match any of the templates, so perhaps it does not belong here at all? I am very new to this community, so please dig the text out of the history and relocate it if I was wrong. 126.96.36.199 14:56, 16 March 2007 (EDT)
Is there a website for all the list of Berlin Hotels?
No Bears and Wolves
That's actually not true. There are wolves in the forests of eastern germany, and recently one bear was shot in the alps in bavaria.
______________ Its only a few packs of wolfes in a rather rural area (Lausitz) in the very east by the border to Poland and that bear was shot after 2 month. So there are no (more) bears and hardly any wolfes in the wild, dont worry 188.8.131.52 12:48, 5 April 2009 (EDT)
There are active wolf packs in the Lausitz that swam over from Poland. It is documented.
Behaving in public
I've removed this sentence: "However, Germans expect everyone to obey the rules to the letter, and foreigners are not exempt." I know this is a stereotype, but (as a German studying in the U.S.) it doesn't ring particularly true to me. (For instance, in Germany you're not usually required to actually know the law; just behave "reasonably". I find it really funny when (in the U.S.) I see legalese posted on hotel room doors or "New York state law requires blah" signs.) If someone wants to re-add this though and perhaps make it a little more specific, feel free to. -- 184.108.40.206 23:58, 1 December 2007 (EST)
This article currently does not follow the the Wikitravel:Manual of style—it appears that the sections "See" and "Other destinations" have somehow been combined under an "Other destinations" section which does not perform the usual purpose of that section. The content should probably be mostly moved to a new "See" section and a one-liner list should take its place. Please see Wikitravel:Country article template for more details. --Peter Talk 05:00, 23 January 2008 (EST)
Wind & Sea in North Germany
I don't think that "south-easterly winds" push water into the german bight. The predominant wind direction is definitely south-west and only north to west wind is able to push water to the coast.
Too bad I don't have time to make more than dabbing changes. It feels like this article is lacking coherence. Rather than giving the traveller a comprehensive introduction to the country it appears as a somewhat random collection facts that that were somehow important for individual contributors.
While the facts are mostly true they seem often irrelevant, blown out of proportion or missing important context. There is a warning box (!) about the ban of "Mein Kampf" (factually incorrect - and relevant for whom?). There are detailed instructions about obscure details of food etiquette that probably even 90% of the Germans are not aware of (again, relevant for whom?). Or the extensive paragraph about how not to photograph military installations... there's a lot of this stuff here. I'd say it rather confuses the traveller.
Other paragraphs are obviously touting someone's favourite place. Plus some stereotypes reinforced or some attempts to defuse the stereotypes of the stereotypical traveller ("not all of the country consists of stocky boys in Lederhosen" - come on). Averell23 03:20, 27 May 2008 (EDT)
Train section rewrite
I found DB ticketing totally bewildering, and the Wikitravel content about it, while factually correct, was laid out really chaotically. So I plunged forward and rewrite pretty much the whole thing, and would appreciate it if some native train expert could take a look and tell me what mistakes I made in the process. Jpatokal 13:29, 12 November 2008 (EST)
Small Error fixed
I fixed a little error in the sausage-area, it used to say "große Bratwurst" (big fried sausage), but since there is no such "famous" sausage, I believe it was ment to be "grobe Bratwurst" ("coarse fried sausage"), a very commen and eaten kind with rather thick texture. Nevertheless: Great article, it was a real thread to read it. (HenrieSchnee)
It seems that the German stay safe section attracts a lot of jerks with strong opinions on Nazis & racism. I tried to retone the section about racism. Skin colour is sadly still an issue in some circumstances in Germany, so it should be mentioned. I took the style button out but let us all have a closer eye on that section jan 07:38, 15 May 2009 (EDT)
Germans and cars
Hello everyone, an important thing you might want to add (not sure where) is that you never ever touch any car or motorcycle. Thats very important, and I'm wondering why there is no hint about it. Germans can be very angry about mere touching. --220.127.116.11 12:21, 15 July 2009 (EDT)
I've removed the "minimum speed limit" for the Autobahn. This seems to be a common misunderstanding - there is no such thing. The requirement is only that a vehicle must be capable of a top speed of more than 60 km/h. However, it is completely legal to drive slower, even if other drivers may hate you. Averell23 17:55, 15 January 2010 (EST) ´
"papers please" urban legend removed
I removed the following part from the section "Police".
"By law you must have original or photocopied photo ID with you if you are over 16 (e.g. passport and/or visa papers). The police are generally very helpful but they have heard all the stories about "I forgot my papers" before and will likely be sceptical about any explanation, so it is better to bring photocopies if you have left your original documents in the hotel."
This is a popular urban legend. It might have been the case in past dictatorial/communist regimes but certainly not in Germany today.
In Germany citizens above the age of 16 are required to have some form of ID. However, there is no obligation to carry this ID with you. If anybody came into a situation where police would want to determine their identity, police would likely react the same as in any other country and, depending on the circumstances, figure out a way of determining who you are. But again, none of this is specific to Germany. Therefore I deleted the section. This is an article on the German Wikipedia (in German) that explains in more detail: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ausweispflicht and this is straight from the horse's mouth, the federal ID law: http://bundesrecht.juris.de/persauswg/ --Dred 06:56, 12 February 2010 (EST)
This is true, there is no law saying it. But, you are better with having one with you, it can cause trouble, at least in time, they might take you to the station to identify you, and this takes time. Its not a big deal to take a ID with you...
What happened to the part about Age Restrictions of Movies and the Protection of Minors Law? Why was this deleted? 18.104.22.168 08:49, 11 March 2010 (EST)
Religious symbols cannot be banned in germany, thus buddhists are allowed to wear swastikas openly. The only thing that could happen would be getting some strange looks and maybe explaining your religious situation to the police. It is not forbidden in the context of religion. Please rewrite that part.
Okay22.214.171.124 03:17, 21 June 2010 (EDT)
I just found out from the Auslanderbehorde that Brazilians can also apply for a residence permit in Germany after entering without a visa, at least ones that do not allow work... Unfortunately my country can't...
> A Visa is indeed required for prolonged stays in Germany: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1123.html#entry_requirements
Get in entry requirements
In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for refugees and stateless persons from 'Annex II' countries and the ability for some 'Annex II' nationals to work in their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document - . 126.96.36.199 17:41, 30 May 2011 (EDT)
E. coli outbreak
Should there be a warning in the stay healthy section about the recent outbreak about E. coli / Ehec mainly in northern Germany? Das Klo 06:32, 7 June 2011 (EDT)
The part about politics in Germany contains light but not insignificant political bias. For example equating the FDP with the Tea Party movement is nonsensical. The FDP is a liberal party and not only in a "nominal" economical sense. Conservatism and social liberalism are not mutually exclusive in Germany ("Liberalkonservativ"), comparisons with US-style politics lack context. Also politics of conservative parties are not "usually" heavy-handend. The Pirates ("Die Piraten") should not be considered a party of medium importance after just one state election and isolated polls. Finaly The Left ("Die Linke") is not the most important party in former East Germany by any margin. This articel is very well written. I should be kept politically neutral. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs)
Japanese FM radios
In Germany, frequencies in the range from 76 to 87.3 MHz are currently used for frequency modulated services, which mustn't be received by the public. Because this frequency range is part of the Japanese FM band, please add a warning to ja:ドイツ. --184.108.40.206 02:29, 15 February 2012 (EST)
More emphasis on ride-sharing
Ride-sharing is very widespread in Germany and for those who travel on a budget it is a good alternative to the railways which are very often very expensive in Germany. Ride-sharing should be mentioned more prominently in the "Get around" section, particularly it might not occur to foreigners that ride-sharing is a viable alternative in Germany.
Today, by far the most popular website for arranging shared rides is mitfahrgelegenheit.de which therefore should be mentioned more prominently.
The information regarding the immigration and customs is wrong! It says that you clear immigration and customs at your point of entry to the Schengen area and continue to your final destination without further checks. This is not correct! You do clear immigration at your point of entry but you don't clear customs. Customs are always cleared at your final destination in the Schengen area. You will not see your luggage until you claim it at your final destination. For that reason every small airport has a customs checkpoint. The information is in the Schengen tag so I cannot correct it...can somebody help me? --GermanResident 19:09, 30 September 2012 (EDT)
Germany's relation to Nazi history/Shoah
"Every German pupil has to deal with it at about 5 different times during his or her schooling and most classes visit a concentration camp (most of these sites have been transformed into memorials). Not a single day passes without educational programmes on television and radio dealing with this period of time. Growing up in Germany, whether in the GDR or West Germany, meant and still means growing up with this bitter heritage, and every German has developed her or his own way of dealing with the public guilt."
Honestly, I did not like this passage since there is a strange tone to it similar to Martin Walser's speech at Frankfurt's Paulskirche (1998): Mr. Walser pointed out in this speech that Germans are confronted with a "permanent show of our shame" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Walser#Frankfurt_Speech_and_the_Walser-Bubis_Debate). This position caused a huge debate between Walser and the German-Jewish journalist Henryk Broder on Germany's relation to Nazi history.
It is true that German pupils (and students) deal with the topic of the Shoah several times in their educational career and a visit of a concentration camp is a standard. However, it is an important period in modern German history and it is simply not true that "not a single day passes without educational programmes dealing with this period of time." Rather there is a certain German obsession with Adolf Hitler's biography and there are indeed daily programmes on him (f.e. on "ZDFinfo"). A documentary on the actual Shoah, meaning the persecution of Jews and other minorities and their extermination in concentration camps is almost never shown TV or in radio programmes. Therefore one cannot say there is a "permanent representation of our shame" but more something like a bizarre fascination of Hitler's malice (or possibly even a secret adoration).
The history part is rather biased:
"Germany had destroyed itself and much of Europe and only had itself to blame."
The investigative journalist (and son of Holocaust survivors) Edwin Black, for example, has proven that without the help and money of e.g. General Motors, Henry Ford, IBM (organized the Holocaust by the way), the Rockefeller Foundation, etc. etc. the Nazi war machine as well as the Holocaust could have never grown so big. Additonally, Hitler was deeply influenced by the American Eugenic Movement when he formulated his dreadful Nazi ideology. On Hitlers wall was a picture of Henry Ford, Hitlers hero, because Ford had helped spread antisemitism by publishing the horrid "Protocols of Zion" in Germany and the US.
The reasons for Word War II and Hitlers rise to power were so complicated and disturbing, it is quite understandable that one wants to reduce complexity to "Germany had only itself to blame." But it is pure, radical bias and consequently does not belong in a Wikitravel article.
Furthermore, under international law applicable in 1945, the carpet bombing of population centres was a grave breach of The Hague and Geneva conventions. As the war was already won in 1945, Dresden e.g. was a crime against humanity. When we start discrimination among the victims of violations of human rights than we might have more with the Nazis in common than we are aware of.
The same holds true for the concept of collective guilt ("they had only themselve to blame") which, too, derives from the Nazi ideology and pollutes our minds until today. It is the concept of "Sippenhaft", "kin liability", that is to punish a group for what some of its members have done. As Viktor Frankl, Holocaust survivor and psychiatrist professor, states:
“I could adopt the concept (of collective guilt) if I were a National Socialist, because this is absolutely a concept in the framework of National Socialists, see? That it made no difference between Jews, one Jew and another Jew, Jews were absolutely Untermenschen, subhuman beings. And this concept justified them, as they thought, for all kinds of atrocities. But I start on the ground that guilt is, a priori, personal guilt. I can be judged guilty only for something I have missed, failed to do. But in no way can I be regarded as guilty for something an uncle of mine has done, or a grandmother of mine has done. This is 100 percent nonsense!”
Finally, it is a rather Western perspective. Traveling Africa I've found that some people there (I haven't talked to all of them, naturally) tend to have a rather different view: They see no good Allies and no evil Axis - just corrupt colonial powers destroying each other with their genocides, mass killings of civilians and racism, doing to each other what they have done to the colonized countries for centuries. That finally paved the way for decolonization. Interesting view.
Last but not least a quote from the Churchill you didn't know:
"I do not admit... that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia... by the fact that a stronger race, a higher grade race... has come in and taken its place."