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Talk:Australia

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Revision as of 17:48, 19 April 2010 by Dguillaime (talk | contribs) (Reverted edits by 121.210.177.96 (Talk) to last version by Dguillaime)
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Respect

Someone that is not to tired to do it can add respect for australia. --212.247.27.92 17:24, 20 November 2006 (EST)

CIA World Factbook

For future reference the CIA World Factbook 2002 import is now at Talk:Australia/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

Hmmm... Karen suspiciously removed the military information, and I'm no longer able to invade Australia. B-) -- Evan 05:46, 8 Aug 2003 (PDT)

lol! I'll be removing a lot more when I get around to it... :0

Wikitravel should be for all travellers, including hostile invaders. --220.253.226.110 04:44, 6 November 2009 (EST)

You can now find it all again at Talk:Australia/CIA World Factbook 2002 import - Huttite 11:34, 16 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Timezone

Err, Australia has a range of timezones, much the US (being the same size and all...). Seems kind of silly to put just AEST timezone there? (especially since its wrong right now with daylight savings...)

Links removed

The below links were removed from the main article. Do they belong on WikiTravel? -- Ilkirk 20:51, 24 Nov 2005 (EST)

MAPS

  • Bepacked very fast accurate map of Australia GPS read out, distance tool, search for public domain data and other travel related information.
  • Geoscience Australia Geoscience Australia is Australia's national agency for geoscience research and geospatial information.
  • The Map Reading Guide is an ideal manual for a wide range of map users, and is also an excellent and simplistic introduction to topographic maps, suitable for anyone with an interest in maps.

Central Tablelands New South Wales Weather

Other Cities

Australia is the BIG country. It has a whole continent to itself! We cannot have every city listed here. What should be the criteria for listing? Cities with an international airport? Airport hubs? Key tourist cities? Ports? Surely it should be limited to the places an international traveler should first encounter.

Other places can be pushed down to the state pages and then down to their region pages. Like I have done with Ararat, Victoria. -- Huttite 23:01, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)

Sydney has one of the world’s most cosmopolitan societies. They have an extraordinary variety of restaurants, religions, community centers and cultural activities that can be found throughout the city. Tourists have enjoyed going to the Auburn Mosque – a lavish mosque in a Turkish community, Lakemba – a living monument to Islam, Little Italy – home to the Italian community, and the Irish Parade – Held on March 17th of every year (Brass & McKenzie 40).

Hitchhiking is illegal

Anyone know under what statute hitchhiking is illegal in Aust? And what the wording of the law is? Nurg 01:54, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

Sounds odd to me, I can't Google up a single reference for this. Jpatokal 00:50, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)
Some research I did on this subject because it intrigued me and I had heard that it was illegal in some way. What I can find is rather obscure and suggests hitchiking is legal in Australia, but you can only hitchhike while standing on a footpath. What is illegal is the standing in or by the roadway while flaging down a ride!
  • The Northern Territory Government website, under (Australian) Traffic Regulations, says it is an offence to obstruct traffic [1] if soliciting ... a ride ... from within the roadway, the roadway includes a road-related area but does not include a foot path. In other words you can hitchhike in Australia provided you stay on the footpath.
  • Northern Territory Police say nothing about hitchhiking being illegal, however.
  • Queensland Police [2] say do not hitchike, warn drivers not to pick up hitchhikers and say it is an offense to hitchike from a road - though do not say under what law (traffic?) - which seems to imply the Northern Territory law is an Australian traffic law.
  • This link [3] also suggests it is illegal in Queensland - which given that state's conservative nature it probably would be publicised as that anyway, whatever the law really said.

This link [4] also suggests hitchhiking is illegal in some Australian states and is strongly discouraged nationally.

  • South Australia Police say [5] Avoid hitchhiking but do not say it is illegal there.
  • West Australia Police [6] say nothing about it in information for backpackers.
  • New South Wales say nothing about hitchhiking.
  • Tasmania Police websites down but Tasmania Online [7] search only returns one, non-government document, which seemed to be pro-hitchhiking, probably meaning it is not illegal there.
  • Victoria Police and Government websites were down when I checked but as that state is hot on road safety they probably would police any hitchhiking law if they had one.
  • Australian Federal Police website was also down, so no ACT or national picture.
I think the conclusion I have come to, barring more authorative information, is hitchhiking is not actually illegal in Australia but it is a traffic offence to stand on or by the road when you try to get/ask for a ride, unless you are standing on the footpath. If there is no footpath, you cannot ask for a ride from the roadside, though if somebody stopped and offered you a lift from the road that you were walking beside that is probably not illegal for them to do, assuming they could stop legally. -- Huttite 06:48, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)


Thanks Huttite, that's great. Nurg 03:59, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

Domestic Flights

Can anyone recommend a site for searching cheap domestic fares within Australia? Most of the sites I'm using in America (travelocity, expedia, kayak) only know of Qantas. --DropDeadGorgias 11:09, 1 Feb 2006 (EST)

Sounds like you're after something like http://www.flightcentre.com.au/

Try http://www.webjet.com.au

Also Try http://www.eflight.com.au

Kayak is meta-search. For sites like that try: http://iwantthatflight.com.au and http://www.australiatravelmarket.com.au Also try; http://www.bestflights.com.au

Uh.... Say again

"Red Back spiders are also a major risk in Australia, people have reportedly been carried away by carpets of Red Back spiders"
Yeah right. I would love to see a source for this.
This can be corroborated here. Alternatively, you can plunge forward and make any needed corrections yourself. -- Ryan 21:34, 23 February 2006 (EST)
Since the anonymous user didn't take the bait I've removed that paragraph. To others, if something looks wrong please just go ahead and fix it, that's how a Wiki works. -- Ryan 14:27, 3 March 2006 (EST)

Ha! Sounds like the "drop-bears"!

Also in this category might be... "the Australian Capital Territory (ACT) (including Jervis Bay)" -- what? I don't believe it is actually officially part of the ACT? I did hear it was a separate commonwealth territory but the point is certainly moot since the ACT achieved self-government? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure enough about this that I'm going to remove the reference for now -- Stephen Mok 16:29, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

power

Hey - I was just wondering what the power plug situation is like in australia - i assume it is different from the american two-prong plug... might be good to include

Electrical systems -- Colin 02:26, 21 March 2006 (EST)

Globally significant cities

Refering to the introduction. Why is Perth not listed alongside Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Canberra. As far as I'm concerned Perth is a more globally significant city than Adelaide. Perth is larger and faster growing than Adelaide. Perth is on the Indian ocean and is closer to international capitals like Jakarta and Singapore. Adelaide faces Antartica. Not meaning to offend anyone from the beautiful city of Adelaide I just thought I'd try and get some facts and add some equality to this article. Is there any reason why Perth should not be added.

Mobile service

"Those towns that do have GSM coverage are usually served only by Telstra." - this is not completely correct as there are many towns that only have Optus coverage (I have visited and driven through many), but this above statement (modified) would be true for CDMA coverage. Information that may also be worth linking: [Mobile phone coverage in Australia] & [Mobile Roaming in Australia] (These government sources are updated fairly often) 131.172.4.45 09:19, 29 October 2006 (EST) (wikipedia:User:MrMabs)

More on deadly animals

"The Red Back spider (easily identified by a red mark on its abdomen), is more common but not life threatening."

The Red Back spider bite can be fatal. It's just no one has been killed by one for a long time because there's antivenom and the poison is slow acting. I'd in no way suggest that a red back spider bite should be taken lightly though. It's probably the equivalent of the widow spider in the US. We just have more of a sense of humour when it comes to deadly animals over here. So if it takes a day to kill you, you can get to the hospital and you'll be right. I'd suggest someone changes it.

Secondly you forgot the paralysis tick. It's probably a more common one than many of the others. Though again you'll end up in hospital and they'll figure out whats wrong before you die. Couldn't find that much information on it on the internet. But from what I know unlike most ticks the ones on the east coast of Australia bring on slow paralysis over a matter of days. If untreated or not removed they can cause full respiratory failure and be fatal. Though this is far more common in animals, if you get one somewhere you don't notice it, it can do a lot of damage.


It might be good to add something about the huntsman on the deadly spider bit or somewhere too. I know it's harmless, but almost all tourists when they see it for the first time assume it's the most dangerous creature in the country :).


Please Wikitravel:Plunge forward! -- Ryan 11:24, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Weather

It would be nice to have info on weather around Australia.--209.89.209.144 12:13, 10 March 2007 (EST)

Current weather? Or types of weather in Australia? Jamboo 05:19, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

Public transport lines

Someone has put a great deal of effort into listing every public transport route in Australia, but the main country article is really not the place for that - rather than listing every route for a country, it is more useful to list main ways into and out of a city in the city articles. The rationale is twofold: one, a user visiting Brisbane will be using the Brisbane article - they aren't then going to refer back to the Australia article to figure out how to move on. And second, listing every route for a country is difficult to maintain, and it makes the country article much less readable. Alternatively, articles are occasionally created such as Rail travel in Europe that offer detailed discussions of how to get around a particular area, and that might be a possibility for this information.

I've archived the original work at Talk:Australia/Public transport lines. -- Ryan • (talk) • 13:28, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Australia as a continent

Although Australia is often called a continent, this is usually to discredit it as the largest island in the world......it's huge in comparison to most islands (3 times the size of Greenland).... but technically the continent of Australia also includes Papua New Guinea and New Zealand. Can we agree to drop this descriptor? There are plenty of other --- more correct descriptives to use about Australia. Thanks! 216.204.20.170 10:02, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

In textbooks, it is classified as a continent, and I've always interpreted that as an honorific, not an attempt by rabid pro-Greenland factions to steal what rightly belongs to fair Oz. Gorilla Jones 11:00, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
I'm happy enough to keep referring to it as a continent: even the strict geographical truth is not quite what 216.204.20.170 alleges in any case: New Zealand is not on the Australian continental shelf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_(continent) However, I don't claim expertise here: I've never got into so much as a calm discussion, let alone a fight, with anyone trying to deny Australia the status of an island Hypatia 09:52, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

copyright for information from http://www.bepacked.com

leomax has obtained the right to post information from http://www.bepacked.com on wikitravel.

Satellite phones in Australia

The Stay safe and Contact sections mention renting a satellite phone may be a good idea for trips into the outback. While renting (or buying) Iridium phones might be a bit expensive, it would be good to note that in the next few months (or even weeks) Thuraya coverage should extend and cover Australia also. Thuraya is much cheaper than Iridium or even Globalstar (which is not a good option anyway at the moment due to technical problems) and would probably be the best choice for most travelers.Jamboo 09:26, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

BYO

This article claims that BYO restaurants are important, and visitors should look out for them. Actually they are more a 1970s phenomenon, and, unfortunately, are not very common today. I tried changing this but all my changes got reverted. 124.168.67.70 02:31, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

  • BYO restaurants are important for a visitor to understand. Try searching eatability.com.au for the THOUSANDS of results for BYO restaurants. They are still commonly found outside of expensive city restaurants. The local Thai or Chinese is more than likely BYO. Of course if you are into fine dining, you probably won't encounter BYO, but I think visitor looking to enjoy a nice wine with their meal could do worse then to seek out their local BYO restaurant. --Inas 23:09, 18 May 2008 (EDT)
  • I agree that BYO is much more common than indicated in the article. In Sydney in particular almost any restaurant will offer BYO that is not considered fine dining.

Barbecue restaurants

The article claims there are many bbq restaurants where one buys raw meat and barbecues it. Apart from the rare mongolian place (but where you do not actually bbq it yourself), I have never heard of such a thing in Australia. I'd love to see a list of actual places offering this! I tried changing this but all my changes got reverted. 124.168.67.70 02:34, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

The Phillips Foote in the rocks is famous for this. See picture for a man in from the BBQ doing exactly what is suggested. The Mosman Rower's also. Just pick your steak or chicken from the fridge, walk over to the grill, and get cooking. I've also seen the same thing around Childers in Queensland, and a few other places. It may not be common, but it certainly does exist. Phillips Foote in Sydney is certainly a place where tourist may encounter this form of dining - do not venture in without a master of the tongs... --Inas 02:02, 26 May 2008 (EDT)

Counter lunch

I dispute the accuracy of the following: Counter lunch. If you were raised in a British household, you will know what it is to have a roast beef or lamb, potatoes and peas. Most traditional pubs in Australia offer what is called a counter lunch. For around five dollars, you can sit at the bar at lunch time and have a very hearty British meal of meat, potatoes, gravy and veggies. With a nice cold beer of course. This British influence is prevalent in a whole range of grocery store items like pasties and sausage rolls.

Firstly, I think it is a major stretch to imply that this sort of thing is in any way common these days. And what, precisely, is a traditional pub in Australia? Standard pubs in the 1970s and 1980s offered counter lunches, true, but it is not all that common today. Secondly, the type of food described here does not sound anything like any pub meal i have ever heard of (chicken parmagiana, steaks and salad, steak and chips are more typical). Thirdly, no counter meal i have ever heard of is eaten at the bar! It is always served in the Lounge section of the building, which was set up as a restaurant. Fourthly, just how useful is this information to a traveller???? And the cost! Five Dollars?!? I don't think so. 124.168.67.70 02:59, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Hitchhiking

There's no polite way to say this. The entire hitchhiking section is pretty useless and full of misleading and false information. Section reproduced below:

It is not illegal to hitchhike in Australia though it is an offence to obstruct traffic by "soliciting ... a ride ... from within the roadway". If you stay on the footpath, you're legally in the clear.

The great distances between towns in the Outback (or inner desert regions) can make hitchhiking difficult, but many travelers have made the coast-to-coast trek. Hitchhiking is more popular along the coastal regions (between Melbourne and Sydney, for example). During the 1990s several travellers went missing after hitchhiking along this route and were found to have been murdered by a serial killer. The perpetrator of these crimes has now been imprisoned; however, if you choose to hitchhike, you should use great caution.

The very lightly populated outback regions in Australia can provide the unique opportunity of a ride in a road train. Waits can be long and the climate harsh but the local people very warm and inviting and supportive of any venture to move around by hitchhiking (public transport is often non-existent). It is highly advisable if venturing into these regions without your own transport to carry enough food and water with you for at least a day and carry a good sun hat and warm clothes — people do die in these areas from lack of preparation.

In most Australian cities and towns, hitchhiking is often frowned upon, which can make getting a ride extremely difficult as many Australians are not generally comfortable with the idea of allowing a complete stranger to enter their car.

  • Hitchhiking in the outback!?!? Seems pretty unlikely to me! Has any traveller/tourist ever actually done this?! Seems highly unlikely, and in any event, foolhardy.
  • Hitchhiking more popular in coastal regions. I dispute that it is popular. In fact, it is rare among locals and travellers alike
  • Then there's mention of a serial killer!! Ivan Milat was arrested in 1994. Why is that mentioned at all? Not too relevant really. Is this the world's only crime perpretrated on hitchhikers? No?? Then in that case, why is it mentioned here on this travel site?
  • Riding in a road train is hardly unique, as the prime mover is the standard largesize cabin found across Australia not ot mention multiple countries. And see my comments on hitching in the outback.

The only bit that concurs with reality is the last paragraph.

I'm reluctant to make any changes myself as I've tried that and all my edits got instantly reverted. 124.168.67.70 16:24, 5 May 2008 (EDT)

With all due respect, have you ever hitchhiked in Australia, or are you just basing your comments on your preconceptions? There are plenty of people who have and whose experiences seem more in sync with the current text than your version. See eg. this girl, who says (and I quote) "Once you are in the rural areas it gets a lot easier, and in the Outback it's super easy." Jpatokal 08:08, 6 May 2008 (EDT)
She also contradicts a lot of what this page claims. She claims it very difficult outside the outback which this site does not say. She says it is virtually impossible for a male to get a ride - this site does not say that either. Most important - she is not specific about what regions she is talking about when using the term outback. Not too many people actually regard "outside Katherine" as being the outback. But since we are quting her, I'll quote this from her: "The question comes up every now and again in Australia travel forums and the answer is usually, "Oh no, don't do it. Too dangerous, not enough traffic, and the backpacker killings, yada, yada..."" 124.168.12.254 15:29, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
You're not quoting that from her, she gives it as the stereotypical response, and goes on to give her own opinion: "All the people who have been hitchhiking in Australia for years and years and many thousand kilometres, and who met lots of great people and had a wonderful time, you never read their story in a newspaper. My story is such a story."
And where do you see "very difficult" or "virtually impossible"? I see "If you are male you will spend a lot more time waiting at the side of the road" (true anywhere) and "The more traffic the harder it is to get a ride" (also true anywhere). Jpatokal 04:42, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
The whole concept of hitchhiking is pretty irrelevant i reckon. I know people who used to do it years ago, and people who have done it when they are desperate, but let's face it, hitchiking isn't that safe and we shouldn't be promoting it as a way to see Australia.
That is as true anywhere, as it is in Australia. Risks which exist the world over, don't need to be identified specifically to Australia. If you hitchhike, there are risks that the hitchhiker is well aware of, and has accepted. The same as the plane traveller accepts the risk of falling out of the sky. We need to identify here only additional risks or peculiarities to Australia, give the facts to the traveller, and they can decide. My biggest issue is the variation in what people call the outback. Some towns like Katherine, Broken Hill, Coober Pedy, etc advertise themselves as the outback. If you have a problem, or can't get a ride in these towns, then solving the problem is as easy as camping for the night and catching a bus the next day. These towns are also on the main truck and travel routes. When people talk about hitching the outback, I think this is what they mean. This isn't what I think of as the outback, however. Away from the trucking routes, where a bus never comes and cars can be days or weeks apart on some roads. In that outback, then you need to think differently. --Inas 17:36, 3 December 2008 (EST)

Hitchhiking 2

I just pruned the hitchhiking section. This is what I did and why:

  • The great distances between towns in the Outback (or inner desert regions) can make hitchhiking difficult

I removed this because it's blatantly misleading and wrong. Hitch-hiking is as often made easier by great distances as it is made more difficult. Having hitched the whole countrye extensively (and other countries) I know this to be true empirically.

  • Hitchhiking is more popular along the coastal regions (between Melbourne and Sydney, for example). During the 1990s several travellers went missing after hitchhiking along this route

This is possibly true but nothing more than an opinion with no justification to support it. If it's true I suspect it's true for the following reasons:

  1. Most Australians live in coastal regions. So everything, from hitchhiking to nose picking is more popular common and hence possibly perceived as popular in coastal regions. So what?
  2. Hitch-hiking is most popular (and I can find literature to support this is requested) where there is poor public transport infrastructure, much distance to cover and youth in combination. For this reason I've found it to be quite accepted and common on the south coast of NSW for example, and not in retirement villages, or suburbia.
  3. Hitching the Hume is almost certainly as popular as any coastal route! I've lost count of the times I did that (the inland rout between Sydney and Melbourne), because its fast.
  • During the 1990s several travellers went missing after hitchhiking along this route and were found to have been murdered by a serial killer. The perpetrator of these crimes has now been imprisoned; however, if you choose to hitchhike, you should use great caution.

Stuff and nonsense. They were dumped in the Belangalo state forest which isn't on a coastal route by any measure (except perhaps when viewed from the moon where maybe). Moreover to caution people against hitchhiking because of one crazed lune that bumped a few off is no more warranted than cautioning them against visiting tourist sites because Martin Bryant killed 35 people at one (a heck of lot more than Ivan Milat - the afforementioned perpetrator bumped off). I've always had to berate people willing to hold up such incidents against hitching but not against going to school because folk Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold run around with semi-automatics at them bumping of other kids. It just makes no sense, and is misleading emotive stuff and nonsense. I can and will if asked cite all the research (which you yourself can find on-line as I have already reviewed and republished key extracts a decade ago) that concludes objectively that there is no reason to believe hitch-hiking is any more dangerous than most anything else you're doing (like drive, crossing the road, walking in town at night, visiting nightclubs, bars, hangliding, scuba diving ... you name it ...).

  • In most Australian cities and towns, hitchhiking is often frowned upon, which can make getting a ride extremely difficult as many Australians are not generally comfortable with the idea of allowing a complete stranger to enter their car.

Says who? Again, stuff and nonsense made up by someone. Sure there's a lot of people frown on hitchhiking. A lot of them live in towns and cities. So what's new? A lot of people frown on marijuana and a lot of those live in towns and cities. Hey, a lot of people frown on leather pants and a lot of those live in towns and cities. Want to share something of relevance. And then the leap of logic that this makes getting rides difficult. I've never found getting rides particularly difficult in Australia. Almost anywhere I've hitched bar the far outback, wait times averaged in urban or populated areas to about 30 minutes. About the same as all over Europe and Asia and the U.S. that I've experienced. If you think that's difficult you need to adjust your expectations before flagging a ride. And sure that's an average of about 30 minutes. Sometimes it's 2 hours, sometimes it's 1 minute.

In response then to the previous Discussion entry above:

  • Hitchhiking in the outback!?!? Seems pretty unlikely to me! Has any traveller/tourist ever actually done this?! Seems highly unlikely, and in any event, foolhardy.

I've done it extensively and so have many other. It is, to be frank one of the most rewarding experiences I can recommend of the Australian experience. I can wax lyrical on it, but in summary I've never waited more than 3 days for a ride and I've hitched the most unlikely outback tracks and would be prepared to hitch ANY outback track if I felt like it. Sure, I know how it's done, and I know how to prepare myself but it's not nearly as bad, logistically difficult or weird as you think. Indeed it's often an outrageously positive and rewarding experience. But there's an essay in that.

  • Hitchhiking more popular in coastal regions. I dispute that it is popular. In fact, it is rare among locals and travellers alike

This I'd concur with. Even in places where I've found it quite well accepted it's not popular. The young people mostly stopped doing it on account of Milat driven paranoias, but it still works quite well for those who do hitch. Not least of all because the roads are full of people wishing they saw more hitchhikers (me included, I pick em up whenever I see them and I can make space, heck I even gave a guy aride about 1km in suburbia not too long ago don't find many thumbs out there believe me).

  • Then there's mention of a serial killer!! Ivan Milat was arrested in 1994. Why is that mentioned at all? Not too relevant really. Is this the world's only crime perpretrated on hitchhikers? No?? Then in that case, why is it mentioned here on this travel site?

I concur! Totally weird thing to bring up, see my arguments above. So what I say? Why not throw in some more irrelevant facts like the price of tea in China. Seems obvious to me that if the price of tea in china goes up that hitch-hiking might be a little safer because more nice Chinese folk will migrate to Australia where tea is more affordable ... ha ha.

  • Riding in a road train is hardly unique, as the prime mover is the standard largesize cabin found across Australia not to mention multiple countries. And see my comments on hitching in the outback.

Well it's unusual. I've never ridden in road train anywhere but the North West of Queensland and by thumb. Sure it's not unique (take to its extreme that means there was one road train driven once by one person who had one experience, end of story), but I'd leave that piece of rhetoric intact conveying the relative interest many travellers might have in an experience that most travellers never have.

  • I'm reluctant to make any changes myself as I've tried that and all my edits got instantly reverted.

Sounds like a wiki war. The conservative prats oughtn't win ;-). Let them debate it here, and prune of remove the whole danged section until there some agreement it's not just opinionated trash, but useful information.

In summary, yeah, yada yada. I've hitched most of Australia extensively anything from alone as an unkempt hairy male standing 6'2" to in couples, and even in a group of five (and got rides that way up into the South Australian Outback!) The stuff and nonsense written by people who have never tried, nor even tried to review the literature of hitch-hikers (and there is some out there) but just parrot social stereotypes is a little perturbing and I must and do often take a stand against it.

Phone number consistency

Is there any rules or notes about phone number consistency in entries? I've been browsing/editing a few South Australia related articles and there are a lot which just use the 10 digit phone numbers in one string. Some also use the (00) 1111 2222 format (which I think is better). What do you suggest?

See Wikitravel:Phone numbers and associated discussion for the policy, and feel free to join in there. Unfortunately, it is still a bit USA and Canada centric, as you can't mark the part of the number you would dial in Australia like you can in the States according to the policy. The United Kingdom which is the same boat as Australia, seems to use the (00) 1111 2222 format fairly consistently. This seems to be a little dynamic at the moment. --Inas 02:26, 6 November 2008 (EST)
Well if we stick to the same format as the US and Canada based Wikitravel:Phone numbers then we'd be using +61 00 1111 2222. I guess it depends on if we think numbers are going to be called from overseas or from Australia. --oli 03:19, 6 November 2008 (EST)
Hence the problem, if you express the number as +61 03 4256 7892, you end up with a number that can't be dialed from anywhere. The best way to comply with the policy would be to use a number like +61 3 4256 7892. This will work from any mobile, the downside is that have to understand that you need to drop the 61, and add a 0 to dial it from Australia. But if you use (03) 4256 7892, you won't be Robinson Crusoe, and at least the info is in there. --Inas 16:23, 6 November 2008 (EST)

Most Urbanised?

Surely this the following, taken from the intro para, isnt correct?

"Australia is actually one of the world's most highly urbanised countries"

I thought australia was supposed to have a lower population than the uk, therefore it cant be very urbanised at all, given its relative size?

Less people, but as a proportion of the population, most live in major cities and coastal towns. So, even though the country is vast, a high proportion of the population live in a few small parts. Highly urbanised. --Inas 14:54, 3 December 2008 (EST)
something like 80% of the population live in the cities of Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Canberra and Adelaide.

Farmer's markets

I have only been to a few, but those "Farmer's markets" I have been to sell few fresh fruit and vegetables but mostly pickles, cakes, jams, olives, pasta, wines.... which are all super expensive and cost a lot more than somewhere like the Queen Victoria Market. But here it implies they are cheap. What do others thinks? Change the section?? 210.84.12.63 03:04, 6 February 2009 (EST)

I think what you went to is a local or country market/fare/fete which is a lot more common than a farmers market hence the lack of fresh produce.
I attended a farmer's market at Ascot Vale, Victoria, today. It was tiny, the range of items available was not great, and it was significantly more expensive that the Queen Victoria Market. Why would a tourist travel 6 kms to Ascot Vale (and then the market about 20 minute walk from the tram stop) when the huge, central city Queen Vic Market is 100s of times bigger, with a fantastic range of fresh produce, and a lot cheaper? 210.84.7.81 02:51, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
You might want to ask yourself that question. For the experience I would imagine? I would also urge caution in judging the whole category of Farmer's Markets after a couple of experiences. --Burmesedays 02:59, 18 April 2010 (EDT)
The enormous Queen Victoria Market with hundrens of stalls filed with fresh fruit and vegetables, and filled with international tourists every day who apparently think it is enough of an experience they are snapping away photographs of the food stalls is a pretty good experience. 210.84.7.81 03:14, 18 April 2010 (EDT)

Aboriginal languages

I hate reverting good faith edits, but this edit [8], I am reverting, because I can't see that it adds any extra information for the extra words, but to me has an overtone that a Aboriginal person not speaking English is not an educated individual. I'm sure that meaning was not intended, so if anyone still things there is a problem with the original para, perhaps have another go. --inas 19:27, 3 September 2009 (EDT)

Hmm i agree that is sounds very un-PC. I think that the author was trying to say is that there are some very remote aboriginal communities where it may be uncommon for some individual to have completed much primary or secondary school and therefore never had to learn English.

Tour Operators

Should we really be listing all those tour operators in a country article? I will check and make sure they all pass muster but am not sure that any should be here. --Burmesedays 10:53, 14 December 2009 (EST)

Yes, they should not be listed here (or with regards to those listings, anywhere, I think). We've covered this here, although I think we forgot to a) remove these operators and b) update the policy article! --Peter Talk 16:20, 14 December 2009 (EST)
Which to do first? The policy, I think. --inas 18:26, 14 December 2009 (EST)

Beyond Cuisine

This section is obviously one of the more lighthearted in the article. It is a section for people who want to try more unusual Australian cuisine and customs, and has had a few inspired contributions over the past year or so. I think it is useful to be first time visitors to Australia. By necessity it is going to be have a point of view, and I'm going to try and put back some of what has been lost with edits making it more factual and encyclopaedic. The idea of this Australia article is to give a general introduction to a broader Australia. Of course you can buy Arnotts biscuits in a supermarket - that should be obvious, but maybe not so obvious is that if you go to the local market in any country town on a Saturday morning you will get some ANZAC biscuits that were home baked the night before. Yes, if you are staying a downtown posh-hotel, you can just ask for vegemite on toast - whether it appears on the menu or not. So by all means edit away, but if you want to replace lively text, it should be replaced with something just as lively, and not dulled down. --inas 17:48, 24 January 2010 (EST)

Politics

We should limit the depth of political discussion here to what is required either to understand Australia or to hold a conversation with Australians. --inas 04:42, 22 February 2010 (EST)