And a draft is finally ready! My two main questions are what other geographical features should be included (rivers in particular), and what roads should be included. That is, are the roads included appropriate? And are there other roads that should be there? And of course, let me know if you have any other guidance. Thanks! --Peter Talk 00:42, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- Bloody great effort Peter and I feel ever more inadequate regarding the time it is taking me to get to grips with Inkscape.... Some minor comments and guidance as requested (or if you want, I am happy to make these minor changes myself... your call):
- The Jimbaran dot is slightly wrong - just move laterally to the west coast
- Lake Tamblingan should be labelled I think (the small one, west of Lake Buyan)
- Kintamani should be a black dot positioned on the road just to the north west of the current blue square. That means the regional extent of East Bali should be adjusted westwards to just incorporate Kintamani (I always considered regional assignation of this destination a bit of a problem).
- Tirta Gangga is in the wrong place (that is Taman Ujung). Needs to be on the road more or less opposite the top of the i in East Bali.
- Roads. Generally a very good job indeed. We could debate forever which roads in South Bali should be included.... a largely pointless exercise though. The only one not shown that I would say must be is the road along the east side of the Tanjung Benoa spit (just north of Nusa Dua). In Central, I suggest adding the minor road that leads from Bedugul along the north shore of Buyan and Tamblingan, through Munduk etc...
- Rivers. Bali does not really have any major rivers but rather a very large number of small ones. I suggest rivers are omitted altogether as we will struggle to find a benchmark for inclusion.
- Obviously West Bali NP goes on, but watch this space for those pesky official boundaries.
- Mount Batukaru should be shown.
- Other towns which are not WT articles. I would suggest adding the towns of Gianyar, Bangli, Tulamben, Mengwi.
--Burmesedays 01:47, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- If you need any other reference maps by the way, this 4400 x 2800 jpg download is the best publicly available that I have come across. Extremely accurate: . --Burmesedays 01:58, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- Great feedback, as I expected ;) I'll get to work on it tomorrow. And that map is really incredible—my hat's off to whomever created it. --Peter Talk 02:16, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- Oh, and if you want to feel better about the inkscape learning curve, take a look at some of my ugly early maps like this or this. Also, I'm thinking that it might make the map look more sophisticated to make those region borders more interesting. Perhaps there are some general geographical features that could serve as boundaries? Otherwise I could just make them arbitrarily more squiggly, which almost always improves a map's aesthetics. --Peter Talk 02:20, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- You do know how to make a fellow feel better :) I will get there, but those early efforts of yours are more on a par with my current skill level :) I hope to have my first Wikitravelised map up in about 2 weeks.... --Burmesedays 04:18, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- More on roads. Once you have positioned a dot for Gianyar, you will need to link it by road to Ubud. If you check on the large map I referenced you to, just south west of Ubud, we should show the road that goes Ubud -> Peliatan -> Bedulu -> Gianyar (it is quite major in reality and the way everyone uses to get from Ubud to East Bali). --Burmesedays 08:56, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
I've now made all the above changes, and a couple aesthetic ones—Bali looks strikingly like Snoopy, which makes it a lot more challenging to make it look good.
I switched to a more monochromatic color scheme, with the colors actually taken from photos of each region throughout our guides. I also went ahead and made the region borders more squiggly. See right for comparison. The southeastern border of Bali Barat NP is relatively arbitrary too, but that can be corrected if we get more info on where it actually lies. --Peter Talk 18:35, 26 October 2009 (EDT)
- Well done Peter as usual. The map is very sharp and clean. And the Snoopy comment made me laugh :) A few comments:
- I am not sure about the monochromatic colour scheme. Perhaps it is just my eyes but I find the scheme very indistinct and not helpful. I do appreciate the problems with aesthetics but also think we should consider ease of use. I thought your first version was fine colour-wise.
- West Bali NP. I will have those official boundaries for you this week. As I said before, this is a lot more difficult than you might imagine but I will have a meeting at the PHPA office perhaps as soon as tomorrow. The area you have currently shown corresponds more or less to the only areas of the park ever visited by tourists, so it is not misleading in any way.
- Mount Batukaru is incorrectly labelled as Mount Bratan and is also too far north. I think you have actually marked Mount Lesung - Mount Batukaru is about 8 km to the south.
- The Kintamani place dot has not been moved yet (see previous comments).
- Serangan Island and Benoa Harbour are showing in white.
- Indonesian Ocean? :)
- Very well done with the roads. The Ubud, Gianyar, Klungkung route looks good now. As I said previously, we could debate forever which roads are shown in South Bali but this is a good represenation.
- No issues with the boundaries. Mine were completely arbitary.
- I would suggest that the map is ready to go live, subject to the small corrections mentioned above. --Burmesedays 05:30, 27 October 2009 (EDT)
- I've made the changes, and added it to the article. I'll be happy to update the park boundaries once you get them! --Peter Talk 22:16, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
- Well done Peter, really well done. And thank you for using a colour scheme that my poor old eyes can distinguish :) One tiny correction - you now have Mount Batukaru showing but you neglected to delete "Mount Bratan". --Burmesedays 22:51, 28 October 2009 (EDT)
- Actually, I added Mount Bratan—both peaks are marked. Should I remove Mt Bratan? --Peter 06:10, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
- I am not aware of a mountain called Bratan. It may be a localised name for either Mount Pohon or Mount Lesung. But in any case I do not think it should be shown. --Burmesedays 22:16, 29 October 2009 (EDT)
- And here is the full scoop on West Bali NP boundaries. The area within park boundaries (including marine areas) is +/- 190 km2 and this is all in the far north west. A further 580 km2 of mostly mountainous land to the south east (the huge empty area that you see on any Bali map) is actually not National Park but reservation loosely administered by the park authority. I have corrected the West Bali NP WT article to reflect this. I have replotted the eastern boundaries (the others look OK) of the NP on your svg (as a yellow line) to correspond to the photocopy of the official govt document that I have from the park authority office. I suggest that the additional reservation land is just ignored for this purpose. We got there eventually. :) Cheers. --Burmesedays 02:20, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
- Hmm, did you remember to upload the svg after editing it? I don't see the yellow line. And while you're at it, please feel free to remove Bratan ;) --Peter Talk 22:53, 31 October 2009 (EDT)
- I have had so many dodgy moments in the last couple of days. Blame the flu. I was sure I had uploaded the svg but obviously not. It is on my office computer so will do so tomorrow. And I will delete Mount Bratan :) . --Burmesedays 22:58, 31 October 2009 (EDT)
Have now uploaded svg, amended as follows:
- yellow line showing the official eastern boundaries of West Bali NP. The difference is minor so I will leave it to you Peter to decide whether this is worth changing
- deleted Mount Bratan
- major re-positioning of Bangli; my fault for not spotting this previously
- moved northern boundary of East Bali (the Lake Bratan area) slightly westwards
- some very minor adjustments to the positions of Gianyar and Klungkung.
I will leave the output of a new png to you Peter, after you have decided whether it is worth changing the West Bali NP boundaries.--Burmesedays 22:18, 1 November 2009 (EST)
- Done. --Peter Talk 22:39, 1 November 2009 (EST)
When setting those big ugly regional boundaries I was keen to:
- consider Bali in the manner of a first time visitor
- try to avoid a Wikipedia-style round of endless debate
So, the boundaries are completely arbitary. I have not followed official regency divisions (for which, see here ) or geographical features. It is certainly possible to move, refine or re-define these. --Burmesedays 04:30, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
- I think the straight lines are just fine, especially since there are so few towns/sights of interest near the boundaries. Jpatokal 22:17, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
Before I gave up on Inkscape on this PC, I had something like this in mind
That way we have regions that should also make a little sense to locals, but i'm fine with the number one map above as well. sertmann 18:57, 26 October 2009 (EDT)