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Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/2013

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The following are archived discussions from the Wikitravel:Travellers' pub. They should not be modified.

Anyone interested in making a trip to Tanzania?

Hello everyone; I will like to know if there're any here who is interested in making a trip to Tanzania, home to Africa's highest mountain (Mt Kilimanjaro). Tanzania is one of the most beautiful countries in Africa and while in Tanzania, you would get the opportunity to either climb Africa's Highest mountain (Mt Kilimanjaro, or Africa's 5th Highest mountain ( Mt Meru) or explore the endless planes of Serengeti national park or Ngorongoro crater which stages incredible spectacle of animal behavior. There's so much to see in Tanzania. If there is, anyone interested in visiting, please kindly let me know,, I have got an offer for you. Thanks

Thank you, Snoovy! I'm putting this message on the Tanzania Talk Page. In this case more people might see it. Are you often traveling to Tanzania? Have you seen Mount Kilimanjaro? Would be great to see your contributions on those pages; I'm sure that would benefit many travelers! Warm regards, IBAlex 12:49, 28 January 2013 (EST)
This sort of stuff belongs at Wikitravel Extra, not on the wiki. Talk pages aren't for planning holidays or finding travel buddies. Please reread the policy at Wikitravel:Using talk pages, IBAlex. 00:07, 3 February 2013 (EST), I am aware that Talk Pages are not the best place for "questions, comments, or personal stories about a destination or topic" as you might read in the policy pages. Knowing however, that Wikitravel Extra is currently not active as it used to be, for the pure traveler's benefit I decided to move the post to Tanzania Talk Page so that it is not left without a notice. Warm regards, IBAlex 13:03, 4 February 2013 (EST)

Brief outage 14 May 8PM PST

Hello everybody! On 14 May there may be a brief outage starting at 8pm Pacific Time due to the site maintenance. Site outages are expected to be between 30 and 60 minutes. We apologize you for the inconvenience! Best wishes, IBAlex (talk) 16:15, 14 May 2013 (EDT)

New administrators nomination

We have a new nomination for the administrator on Wikitravel. Please have a look at Administrator nominations. Best, IBAlex 20:34, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Congratulations go to Nurg, one of our most senior contributors with ten years under his belt and the first editor community nominated in a long while for admin privileges to meet the criteria! --118dot93dot73dot30 04:56, 30 April 2013 (EDT)

Improvement Ideas

We are planning to revitalize Wikitravel and our community! In 2013 we would like to improve technicality and usability of the site and we are open to any ideas! Please let us know of any new features you would like to have on WT and share with us your suggestions on how to make Wikitravel better. I am not talking about any particular pages, this is an open question for improvement ideas. What are the features and functionalists you would like to see on Wikitravel? Please write them below. Firstly we will be upgrading the software, afterwards we will work on improving the functionalists, step by step. Thank you for your cooperation and understanding. kind regards, IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)

A new contributor here, Fred Ashmore. I think Wikitravel is a terrific source of information and as a regular traveller and incurable motor mouth would enjoy contributing occasionally. But might it be possible to make the editting - well, just more familiar in feel? Not being Techie, I am accustomed to an Editor which lets the user see what what's happening without having to preview. For example the BLOGGER editor (OK, I know that Wikitravel doesn't have Google behind it, but still....) 31 May 2013
Please enable the API. I would love to use Wikitravel with my iPad App (Wikipanion) 06:24, 14 January 2013 (EST)
Thank you for your suggestion! We will be working on that! IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I know this is going to come across as very snippy - but I really think it important that IBadmins should read this page at least at the beginning and end of their working shift and leave some sort of reply - even if it's only a holding reply (so as not to create a bad impression). If you read down, you will see that many topics are still waiting an authoritative reply, and if you are sincere about wanting to "revitalize Wikitravel and our community" this task is probably at least as important as welcoming robot spammers and then deleting their accounts... --118dot93dot73dot30 18:40, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
The topics that are waiting for replay are all suggested by you, dear User:118dot93dot73dot30. Again, we would first do the upgrade and then start working on all the ideas you suggested- Default image sizes in Thumbnails, Template:Panorama, Renovating our Listing format. thank you for your patience and cooperation. Kind regards, IBAlex 16:33, 25 March 2013 (EDT)
I would like to have a way to mark all the details whit a date so it is easy to see how up do date some part of a article is. Like a update="2013-05" attribute to eat/do/sleep/... tags. Year and month is enough precise, but it should show up in the article. Denn (talk) 02:29, 8 May 2013 (EDT)
The most important thing to me are the coordinates to be used whit a GPS. There are the attributes lat="" and long="", but the coordinates are not displayed in the article. This should be fixed. Additional it would be great to have a GPX export function for all the stuff whit coordinates (per article and country would be perfect). I'm not sure if this is already possible, but also the whole articles should have coordinates. The coordinates should have a link to a map (openstreetmap). I can also offer some help whit coding. Denn (talk) 02:29, 8 May 2013 (EDT)
I'm a long-time Wikitravel contributor who was disappointed in 2012 with the way Internet Brands was treating the community and the site. I hardly contribute here anymore, but I do stop by and see how things are going. It's great that you are asking for suggestions. That's the spirit I think you'll need a lot of for rebuilding. I'd offer that of these suggestions, you consider moving to the top of the list anything that will nuture and enlarge the contributor community. From my perspective, the most important technical change would be an API to offer any content changes to other sites. The second would be working with the WV... community to help them accept contributions from this API. Why would that matter? First, it's a sign that Internet Brands is moving beyond hostility and control to openness and community. Second, it would make me think that if I made contributions here, I could help both Wikitravel and WV..., whereas if I contribute at WV... then Wikitravel would not pick it up. It would give me a reason to move back to Wikitravel. In any case, best wishes for the renewal. P.S. an easy first step towards openness and community would be to stop blacklisting the word WV... I can't believe I need to bowdlerize that word here. JimDeLaHunt (talk) 01:47, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
If you genuinely wish to assist travellers with an up-to-date travelguide, there is one very good reason to continue to contribute here: audience size. Due to superior Search Engine Optimisation, Wikitravel remains the number one search result for many travel related searches.
I think IBAlex was genuine when she seeded this post - unfortunately the reality is that NONE of the suggestions made have been implemented or even given a timetable - not even the technically trivial ones. IBobi and the other IBadmins talk a good game but either they are starved of technical resources or they don't really care about actually making any improvements.
The clearest example of this inaction is the topic below of Default image sizes in Thumbnails. This is a change that would require 6 minutes of a competent technicians time yet after 8 weeks there is still no action or even timetable for an action. No, IB seem to have learnt nothing about nurturing a community from the fork that was a direct result of their previous neglect. --W. Franke-mailtalk 03:30, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Default image sizes in Thumbnails

Currently, all unregistered users (and those logged-on, registered users that have not bothered to change their preferences at

  • My Preferences > Appearance > Thumbnail size

from the default)
view thumbnails at the (relatively small) default width of 180px

Since this default was set 10 years ago, connection speeds have typically increased (and prices reduced) worldwide.

I would, therefore, like to suggest that the default size be modestly increased to 250px and the pick selection be changed from:

$wgThumbLimits = array(


$wgThumbLimits = array(

The relevant variable in LocalSettings.php on the server in which to set this range of thumbnail size options is, I think, $wgThumbLimits. (And see also in the Manual's FAQ, How do I change default user preferences and $wgDefaultUserOptions].)

Does anyone disagree and, if so, why? --118dot93dot73dot30 01:10, 15 March 2013 (EDT) 19:10, 28 February 2013 (EST)

Grrrrrrreat - it seems everyone is either asleep or in full agreement with the above proposal.
IBadmins: please would you indicate how long it will take to make this change? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:18, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Currently we are working on upgrading the website and we are using fully our IT resources. The upgrade is the priority. Once we accomplish that I can assure you that we will resolve the issue with "Default image sizes in Thumbnails". Thank you for your understanding! Warm regards, IBAlex 21:08, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
That's terrific news! Can you indicate what sort of "upgrading" we can expect - or is it all top secret?
I'll ask you again in a couple of weeks if you're not able to give an indication now. Thanks! --118dot93dot73dot30 11:20, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Well, our upgrade was completed several weeks ago and more than 5 weeks have gone by, so I'll ask you again: will you implement this enhancement to our user experience now and, if not, why not, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 20:28, 19 April 2013 (EDT)
So all this was posted 3 months ago and now response, What's the crack? -- 11:42, 25 July 2013 (EDT)

Template:Panorama now seems to work

- but use it sparingly until we sort out the image defaults above. (There may be a case for having just a tiny thumbnail on the main article pages with a link to a subpage of the main article containing any panorama images to save hassles for roaming mobile users and those on other slow/expensive connections)... --118dot93dot73dot30 19:21, 7 March 2013 (EST)

What image defaults would you suggest? I checked Milford Sound page and the image is too wide. Would love to fix it together with you. Cheers! IBAlex 20:07, 8 March 2013 (EST)
I've suggested them in the section immediately above this one.
When you say "too wide", what do you mean exactly, please? Do you mean that there is no slider visible below the image window or that the image window does not size itself according to the page width or that the image window overflows the left or right hand gutters? If any of these, could you specify your operating system and browser versions and whether you have right hand advertising switched on or off in your user preferences, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 22:13, 8 March 2013 (EST)
Thanks for replying. I meant that the image window does not size itself according to the page width. I tried to edit the Milford Sound page and when I changed the parameters to 900px, it looked better. I understood that above you were suggesting the default image sizes in thumbnails, not panoramic images, is that right?
I am using Windows 7, Mozilla Firefox and I have the ads turned on. Thank you! Warm regards, IBAlex 14:15, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
How bizarre! Can you upload screenshots, please?
What happens with Chrome or IE Explorer?
Yes, the sub-section above is not concerned with Panorama images. However, I may have to stop trying to improve the look and feel of your pages if the spam filters keep obstructing me. It is very important that a look and feel is developed which is attractive and easy to read for unregistered users and that also allows you to keep your current width of adverts (that you depend on for monetising this site) so that your technical support and development can be financed. --118dot93dot73dot30 19:00, 11 March 2013 (EDT)
BUMP: I know there have been some great changes in your life recently, User:IBalex, but please can you favour me with a response to my queries above so I can move on with re-coding if necessary? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:20, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
That's how the page displays on my screen
I have uploaded the picture to show you how the panorama picture displays on my computer. Right now I have to scroll to the right. Yes, I got the same results on the other browsers. I opt that we keep the panorama pic parameters in a way that it sizes itself according to the page width.
If you experience problems with Abuse Filters, please let me know. Thanks! IBAlex 21:04, 13 March 2013 (EDT)
Screenshot of English Wikitravel's Milford Sound page showing the slider of the new Panorama templated view box on a narrow screen (note the usual "enlarge" widget at the lower right hand corner and the fact that the caption text has wrapped to a second line)

Unfortunately you have not taken a screenshot of your whole screen (and, more especially, your screen width), but I have a strong suspicion that you are using a relatively wide screen (or at least one wide enough to display the whole width of the wide panorama and, therefore, you have no slider to pan left or right. What happens when you reduce the width of your tab or window and do you have an "enlarge" widget visible at the bottom right?

Screenshot of same section of our Milford Sound page showing how the whole view box (when using the new Panorama template) expands to fit the whole width of the page on a wider screen (note the usual "enlarge" widget at the lower right hand corner)

I am enclosing two screen-grabs of how things look on typical laptops or notebooks (as opposed to wide, desk-top monitors). Please try reducing your tab/window width to a narrow width and report here what happens.

If you continue to have further problems, I will need full details such as screen size in pixels, and all your preference settings including what skin you are using and whether you have adverts and Orbitz switched on or off... --118dot93dot73dot30 04:09, 14 March 2013 (EDT)

Emergency phone numbers

I have made a start on adding the unified emergency phone number to the quickbar of about a dozen English speaking countries that have a unified common number but there are still a couple of hundred to go... --118dot93dot73dot30 04:59, 12 March 2013 (EDT)

For those who are interested in helping, this is an example of the type of edit that needs to be made (obviously the actual number or numbers will change between countries! --118dot93dot73dot30 17:49, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

Linking to Encyclopaedia Britannica articles

Because we want to develop our own travel related content here (and also because travellers may be reading a printed version or off-line), we do not link to secondary sources here on the web's most read travel guide.

However, we are not (and will never be) an encyclopaedia. We have a different aim and focus and a different tone. Our ability to use primary sources is one of the great strengths of our travel guide - nothing in Wikipedia is going to beat our ability to utilise the insights of people who have visited a destination recently - the conundrum comes in distinguishing which anecdotes we can rely on from those that are self-serving or mendacious and unfair.

I think we should consider giving our readers free access to any of Britannica's 120,000 articles directly from this web site with special types of in-line links.

IBadmins: You might want to ask your IT department to engineer special types of visually distinctive links brief instructions here, or we can just slightly change our policies so that when our readers click through the special type of in-line link to Britannica from our articles, he or she will be able to view the complete article—even those that normally require a subscription to read—as a free sample.

For example, to link to the Britannica Online article on Horatio Nelson, Viscount Nelson from our own Nelson (New Zealand) article, the Britannica article URL is

Our HTML code then might look something like <a target="_blank" rel="nofollow" href="">Viscount Horatio Nelson<img src="" border="0" width="14" hspace="3" vspace="2" /></a> and display a little like:

Whw thistle.jpg Viscount Horatio Nelson

(I've prepared a normal xl here without the logo in a version of our Nelson (New Zealand) article).

Note: This code will link users to the article on the publicly accessible Britannica site Readers that they recognize as members of a college or library that subscribes to Britannica will have the same experience as a paid subscriber to the public site with full access to the entire site in an advertising-free environment. Readers that are not members of a subscribing institution will still be able to access the full article, however additional content may be restricted and users may be served advertising.

Please note that, for readers that do not have access via a subscription, that the link will be to the full Britannica article only when the page holding the link is hosted on a Web Server. When you test this page on your local machine, it will still lead to the truncated version of the article. This is not an error, and when the same page is put on a Web Server it will still work as intended. --118dot93dot73dot30 17:10, 16 March 2013 (EDT)

Renovating our Listing format

One of the great things about this travel guide is how easy we have made it for casual editors to both wt:add a listing and then update it as information like opening hours or prices change.

However, currently businesses have a perverse double incentive not to use these great XML style listings, since that way they get to retain an obviously

and avoid that (baffling)

  • Non-clickable black name in bold without arrow symbol, 3 Example St, +65 1234 5678, [1]. But with footnote style, meaninglessly incrementing number doohickey right at the end .

Please could the IT department make it a top priority to change this style so that the name="?" tag field becomes BLUE anchor text with the clickable arrow symbol directly after it in an identical way to the non-XML style listings?

Please also remind them to implement HTML code similar to <a target="_blank" href="">Example Motel</a> in both styles so as to make the hyperlink open in a new window/tab so that a return to our great travel site is as easy and fast as just closing the spawned window or tab.

At the same time, they could activate the geographical co-ordinate information. --118dot93dot73dot30 02:00, 17 March 2013 (EDT)

BUMP: Well, IBadmins, you called for suggestions - what's your response? --W. Franke-mailtalk 03:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
BUMP number 3: Another 5 months have passed and still no response. May we have an IB executive response, please? --W. Franke-mailtalk 13:50, 14 October 2013 (EDT)


Is User:Tyen a bot ?

He/she/it never replies and seems to be able (Special:Contributions/Tyen) to make 12 boilerplate welcoming edits to 12 separate user pages inside 60 seconds!

Don't we have a policy that bots should be named and "owned" by a human being? Why can't I find any mention of this (eg: at Wikitravel:Bots) ? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:29, 18 March 2013 (EDT)

These are two genuine questions that I would really like simple answers for; presumably Yes and/or No.
It would also be nice to receive responses to the earlier issues. --118dot93dot73dot30 14:51, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
User:Tyen is not a bot. Cheers! IBAlex 15:10, 21 March 2013 (EDT)
I'm sorry but there is really no honest way to put this without seeing rather impolite. Do you really expect me to believe that He/she/it never bothers to reply to any query and yet seems to be able Special:Contributions/Tyen) to make 12 boilerplate welcoming edits to 12 separate user pages inside 60 seconds? I really am not that gullible. I would accept that there is a human being that has a limited grasp of English that operates a secret Bot of the same name (contrary to our currently stated policy) in a (normally) very useful manner, but please be honest now! --118dot93dot73dot30 21:44, 19 April 2013 (EDT)


I appear to have been accidentally blocked and can only edit by logging out. Can anyone help? I have edits I need to make to my user page. User:LtPowers

Also, my user page is protected, so I can't edit it. It still states that I'm an administrator. LtPowers 15:26, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
I'm sorry to hear about these difficulties.
I can't think of a better place to publicly leave a message like this. However, you might try leaving a message on their user talk pages to either User:IBobi or User:IBAlex or both; I know they are both active IBadmins here, just in case it's slipped their attention.
Have you notified your resignation at Wikitravel:Administrator nominations ?
(Later) Good news! I see that your are no longer listed as an administrator here: and User:IBobi seems to have already made the necessary adjustment to your user page. Is your complaint that you can not edit your User talk page? I assume that you are able to edit in other namespaces (since you seem to able to edit in the "Wikitravel" and main article namespaces)? --118dot93dot73dot30 16:38, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Ugh, I forgot what it was I wanted to change! No, actually, I wanted to remove the Docent information on my user page, but with it protected I cannot. I did not resign my adminship, it was removed. Contrary to policy, I believe, but I never did get an answer on that one. LtPowers 16:53, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Mmmm, looking briefly at some edit histories, I have a strong suspicion that this is something you will need to take up directly with User:IBobi who was the original blocking/protecting IBadmin. For what it's worth, I do agree that it is not appropriate for you to be listed as a Docent when you are unwilling to undertake that job. Looking on the bright side, I see from your User talk page that you have not been troubled with too many requests that you have needed to decline recently.
Since it seems the original problem is now obsolete (and the continuing problem with not being able to edit your own User page is probably better resolved directly with User:IBobi) would you have any objection to my now archiving this topic as having been dealt with? --118dot93dot73dot30 17:09, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Great news! User:IBAlex is on the job and has now edited your user page appropriately. --118dot93dot73dot30 17:12, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Why wasn't the user simply allowed to edit their own user and user talk page? Doesn't that ever cross your mind as a simple solution? —The preceding comment was added by (talkcontribs) at 02:09, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Wikitravel upgrade

Hello all, We're excited to announce that Wikitravel will be upgrading its software next week. In order to migrate Wikitravel's extraordinary database of travel information, we'll be putting the site into read-only mode starting Tuesday, 26 Mar 2013 (PST) and running for about three days. No edits will be possible at this time. When we come back, we'll be better than ever. Please let us know if there are any questions or concerns, --IBobi 17:36, 22 March 2013 (EDT)

Fantastic news!
Will you be able to attend to some of the topics that need an answer further up this Pub page, or will they have to wait a while longer, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 17:41, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Hi, I would like to know which local time you based on. Monday 3/25/2013 of UTC? Or EST or PST? Also, I want to know the approximate starting time.
Since I want to notice ja: wikitravelers the correct information as well as possible, your corporation is very much appreciated.--Shoestring 21:47, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
An excellent point, Shoestring!
Perhaps the upgrade would be a suitable time to change the signature timestamps from the historical and East Coast of the US-centric EDT and EST over to UTC so that they match those in the edit summaries, histories, and everywhere else? After all most of the world is probably a bit confused by the East Coast's Summer times, and UTC (or "Zulu" time) is what the US military and scientific community use. (Please note that I have manually edited my timestamp to this message so that it is UTC (known by many Americans as Greenwich Mean Time or GMT) --118dot93dot73dot30 02:25, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Dear Wikitravelers! The upgrade is planned to start Tuesday afternoon PST. Thank you for your cooperation! IBAlex 23:27, 22 March 2013 (EDT)
Dear community! The upgrade was finished successfully! Please feel free to plunge forward and contribute to the articles! Thank you! IBAlex (talk) 20:39, 28 March 2013 (EDT)
Where can we read about the changes that were made, please? -- 10:11, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
What a pity that the opportunity was not taken to change the signature timestamps over to UTC so that they match those in the edit summaries, histories, and everywhere else! After all most of the world is probably a bit confused by the East Coast's Summer times, and UTC (or "Zulu" time) is what the US military and scientific community use. --118dot93dot73dot30 10:15, 29 March 2013 (EDT), that's a very good question! Please see here. IBAlex (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2013 (EDT)
That page tells you WHY you should upgrade - it doesn't say WHAT upgrades were made by Internet Brands! And why haven't you changed the weird time stamps, eh? -- 11:47, 25 July 2013 (EDT)
It would be useful to know exactly what upgrades were made, please. Has a decision been made by Internet Brands to change the time stamps, please? --W. Franke-mailtalk 00:32, 13 October 2013 (EDT)

Changing the title of a page

Earlier today, this guy Gold Membership Only changed the title of my itinerary "Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus" to "LOL U NOOBS". I saw that he actually did a LOT of vandalism today and that his account got deleted and he is now banned until the year 9999. But, how do I change the title of my itinerary back?Travelgeek (talk) 12:55, 7 April 2013 (EDT)

Hi Travelgeek! All is taken care of now. The title of the page is again Alexandria to Cape train and bus. We are truly sorry for the what happened. Warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 12:00, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
I hope you don't mind but I have moved this page back to what was its original title: "Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus"
Incidentally, while trying to counter similar damage to our Rome article I encountered the difficulty that I do not have sufficient privileges to delete a vandal's newly created nonsense page. I think you know me well enough by now to know that I have the traveller's interests at heart, so would you flip the relevant bit for my account, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 20:12, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
118, thanks for moving the page to Alexandria to Cape Town by train and bus. Your help is very appreciated. Thank you! Which newly created vandal pages do you have in mind? I thought I deleted all of them today. Regards, IBAlex (talk) 20:18, 8 April 2013 (EDT)
I think you got most of the main namespace pages. However, since we are usually in different time zones, there will be times when I can catch things quicker - especially all those spam user pages created just for self-promotional purposes: --118dot93dot73dot30 20:33, 8 April 2013 (EDT)


Previously I've been told that Tyen is not a bot. However I can get no reply from him/her/it and now is mistakenly blocking IPs.

Additionally, I find Tyen's substitution of the signature of an IBadmin misleading and a breach of UUTP

In case this user continues to be uncommunicative, what is the current procedure for revoking admin privileges, please? --118dot93dot73dot30 21:05, 11 April 2013 (EDT)

Interesting. Not only does this delinquent Sysop refuse to respond or reply to questions or remove blocks made in error but he/she/it has now been promoted to have check user rights. I'm on the verge of reverting this edit (especially as there has been no response to my query at Wikitravel talk:Administrator nominations#Clarification needed) unless someone from the Sysop cadre starts communicating. --118dot93dot73dot30 20:37, 19 April 2013 (EDT)

Wikitravel:Administrator nominations

There are some tasks that ordinary editors, however knowledgeable, cannot accomplish - such as delete pages, restore deleted pages, mark certain pages that vandal targets as protected,block and unblocking IP addresses and problematic users.

IBadmins do a great job of combating vandalism and spam, but even they have to sleep sometime. I think we need a few more active admins!

Please make your support known for the new candidates here --118dot93dot73dot30 09:02, 15 April 2013 (EDT)

Looking for people to help categorize articles

We are now in the process of categorizing all WikiTravel articles, and a lot has been done already. This is being done enable and provide another method for those traveling to or otherwise reading about a particular destination to be able to access related articles easily.

Anyone can help. If you want to help, start out by working on articles related to places around where you live, have traveled to, or otherwise have interest in.

To add a category to a page, simply add "[[Category: Categoryname]]" at or near the bottom of the page. For those of you familiar with Wikipedia, it is done just the same way as on Wikipedia.

Articles on places should be in categories on the next higher jurisdiction or region. For example, U.S. cities and towns should be in categories bearing the name of the county they are in. Counties should be in the category of the state they are in. For each country, the system of divisions varies, so pay attention to how that country is divided. You can use the Wikipedia article on the same place as a guide to know about the place.

Attractions should be placed in a category called "Attractions in [country].” In large countries, there should be subcategories for attractions in divisions within that county (US states, for example). Ditto for itineraries.

Travel topics should be placed in special categories for that purpose. There are already a lot of categories for travel topics (see Category:Travel topics). More such categories can be created as needed.

Categories should NOT be created if they will in no way aid travelers. Examples are "Incorporated cities" or "Former communist countries."

This is a large job to do. So we can get it accomplished with individuals doing it little by little. Even if you can categorize just a few articles, that is extremely helpful. It'll all add up.

Mousy mouse (talk) 22:14, 25 April 2013 (EDT)

Before we rush pell-mell into the uglification of the foot of all our articles for no good reason, I'd like to see the clear schema that's proposed - otherwise it's going to be a hell of a job to delete all those badly spelled and geographically illiterate and redundant categories that well-meaning people may create. I really don't think you've thought this through or even read Wikitravel_talk:Categories.
Also, technically until Wikitravel:Categories is changed by consensus, what you're doing is flat against our current policies.
Please note that I am not suggesting that we should not consider changing our existing policies - just that I would like to see a considered and patient discussion - although I do appreciate you may not have the time for one at the moment... --118dot93dot73dot30 06:16, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
For one thing, whether the footers are "ugly" is a matter of personal opinion. In my opinion, it makes the page look more complete with a footer. I have spent many years editing Wikipedia, where a page with a footer left out looks more amateur. The purpose of the WT is to provide useful information to travelers (which should be easy to navigate), not vanity.
Spelling is an issue that does not just affect categories. It affects articles too. And like anything else on a Wiki, it is something that needs to be corrected when discovered. It is not a reason not to have them at all.
The very reason I have made a request for administratorship is to be able to correct categories I have misspelled by mistake due to a typo or something like that.
The reason why I have decided to plunge forward and make the categories now rather than waiting is because it could take years to get a consensus on this while it remains a divided issue, and if one day, a consensus is reached to have them, it would be nice if at least some of this huge job is already done. Mousy mouse (talk) 20:10, 30 April 2013 (EDT)
So you believe that a firm and long-standing consensus to have breadcrumb trails at the top of articles rather than geographical hierarchy categories at the bottom of destination pages can be ignored rather than you make an attempt to persuade the doubters by force of reason?
Could you at least make them hidden until the rest of us think it's a good idea?
I do think there is a good case for some categories (eg: downhill ski resort or whale watching venue) but that's another story that needs a case making for it at Wikitravel_talk:Categories...
PS: As far as I know, any autoconfirmed editor like yourself can use the "Move" tab to re-name a category or article. I don't think you need administrative privileges for that. Later. I'm wrong. It seems admin privileges are needed to move a category on this website. However, that only strengthens my argument that geographical categories should not be created willy-nilly without a prior plan or schema that enjoys broad support.
PPS: You do need admin privileges to delete categories and it would help me make up my mind whether to support or oppose your candidature if you would find the time to remove your writings from slap bang in the middle of my questions at Wikitravel:Administrator_nominations#User:Mousy_mouse. The usual format is to reply to questions underneath and sign your answers rather than put them above my signature! --118dot93dot73dot30 01:44, 1 May 2013 (EDT)
Just so you know, the insertion of my text was not intention, and I had no intent on doing anything disrespectful in the process. It's just that I edit most of the time on an iPhone, and the text is very tiny, so it's possible to mistakenly insert things in the wrong place. Please accept my apologies. Mousy mouse (talk) 20:49, 1 May 2013 (EDT)
I rarely jump to impugn someone's motives, so I just assumed that you were unfamiliar with discussion page etiquette or ignorant as to the correct formatting. Now that you've explained your problem I will make an exception and remove your text to an appropriate position so that my words are restored. I'll also number my original questions so that answering them individually should be easier.

I don't get what benefit categories will give us. If we are going to introduce them, then I think that we need to agree on each category before it is used. Otherwise I will create a category of Ski Resort and use it on some articles in Europe, somebody else will create Winter Resort and use in articles in Canada. We need to agree that a particular feature is worth categorising and then what the criteria is - e.g. does a city with a small dry ski slope get the Ski Slope Category or must it have three runs and snow for four months.AlasdairW (talk) 17:50, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

I think there is an argument for introducing them for travel topics - although even here we can still make use of our breadcrumb trails for some related topics - but I do so agree there should be prior discussion, AlasdairW!
Since, unlike other wiki pages, it is not possible to rename (move) a category it's even more important that our categorisation structure and policy is carefully thought out. (If mistakes are made it will be necessary to create a new category and change the Category tag on every page. The new category will not have the older category's page history, which is undesirable if there are many revisions.) --118dot93dot73dot30 20:18, 2 May 2013 (EDT)

Salem's Lot 5

automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed, my remedial action in trying to combat vandalism and reverse this series of edits to France. Not very smart, eh? --118dot93dot73dot30 19:18, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

Reverted! Thank you, IBAlex (talk) 20:01, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
The whole point of a wiki is that most people can edit it.
I can't help but feel that in this case it would be better to develop a hierarchy of user privileges so that non-casual users such as myself (with thousands of bona fide edits) can correct this type of vandalism.
In this case the "cure" is worse than the disease. --118dot93dot73dot30 21:13, 3 May 2013 (EDT)

10 years of WT

WT is celebrating this year its 10 anniversary. According to the revision history of main page Evan created the Main Page on July 24th 2003 (presumably the first page), which means exactly ten years ago after a couple of weeks. what is plan so far here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: (talkcontribs) at 19:08, 7 July 2013 UTC

It looks like the Main Page was the second page created, as Evan created his user page first (01:37 24 July 2003). This Travellers' Pub was also created on 24 July 2003 at 23:58. AlasdairW (talk) 18:04, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
We'd love to help the community observe this huge milestone! We're only a few months younger than Wikipedia! How should we do it?--IBobi (talk) 21:29, 10 July 2013 (EDT)
Happy 10th anniversary Wikitravel!! Adzas (talk) 09:32, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

Woot woot! Best community ever!!! --IBobi (talk) 13:47, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

Yup, you got rid of all the party poopers... -- 17:51, 24 July 2013 (EDT)

Wikitravel New Home Page

- 11 July 2013 11AM PST: We are excited to announce the launch of our new home page, with links to a lot of the most popular Wikitravel articles. Let us know what you think! We hope you like it. Best wishes, IBAlex (talk) 17:05, 10 July 2013 (EDT)

Nice work, Alex!
It would be great to make the switch to using UTC time stamps - it's not called "Universal" for nothing and now that the owners of this site don't live on the East Coast of the US, it seems a bit anomalous (and even US-centric) to have every post on discussion pages still stamped "EST". Most people know (or can usually calculate) their offset from UTC, but the same is not true of Eastern Standard Time. --W. Franke-mailtalk 05:54, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
Oh, I forgot. It gets worse. Maine is now on Eastern Daylight (Savings) Time (EDT) so we now have to calculate another hour's offset. Very useful for all those in the tropics! (Not that I have that problem here in sunny Glasgow. --W. Franke-mailtalk 08:45, 11 July 2013 (EDT)
The new home page looks amazing! Kudos to all involved. Great design. I love the clickable map and the new language portal flag icons. The slider in the second window down is a real eye-catcher too! What a nice way to highlight some of the great articles here.--IBobi (talk) 20:02, 19 July 2013 (EDT)

I was surfing earlier today and noticed your main competitor has changed it's logo to one that I imediately thought is very similar to your logo, I was going to enquire about this on their "Traveller's pub" but it was evident they were already discussing this, anyway I thought you should know 08:54, 2 September 2013 (EDT)

Thank you for letting us know. Yes, we noticed that. Best, IBAlex (talk) 19:49, 4 September 2013 (EDT)
I like it. Job well done.--IBobi (talk) 14:13, 5 September 2013 (EDT)
Which is the "main competitor"? Trip Advisor? -- 19:38, 29 October 2013 (EDT)
Competitor There are several online travel guides but what was mentioned above is a project that was forked from this one: another wiki travel guide. Koavf (talk) 23:41, 29 October 2013 (EDT)

What is Wikitravel Extra?

Broken link Since / is linked in the sidebar, I figured I'd try to track down what it is supposed to be. No luck. Can someone enlighten me? Koavf (talk) 02:41, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

It was intended to be a place for traveller's tales (and photos) that was not necessarily licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licence, so that interesting material that couldn't be used in the main travel site would not be wasted. As you can see from all the action points above that haven't been actioned, it's one more thing that hasn't been dealt with by IB management in a long while now. --W. Franke-mailtalk 03:04, 15 October 2013 (EDT)
Essentially it was a travel blog. It was initially put there because that's what people thought Wikitravel was, until they realized it is actually a guide -- so that people who would have been disappointed to not be able to tell everyone about their trip to (wherever) would have someplace to put that info. But it was unpopular, and basically died off and has been unsupported since. If there is interest, it's relatively easy to revive.--IBobi (talk) 14:13, 15 October 2013 (EDT)
It's not a good look to retain that prominent link in the left hand gutter leading to an untruthful "Extra section is under reconstruction" is it then? (Incidentally, there are also quite a few hyperlinked references to Wikitravel Extra sprinkled about various pages...) --W. Franke-mailtalk 14:25, 15 October 2013 (EDT)

Evolving policy?

For more than ten years, Wikitravel:Consensus has been one of the cornerstones of this Wiki and I commend it to all.

After some long serving editors left more than a year ago, professional IBadmins were hired to keep up standards here so that spammers didn't dilute our usefulness. However, they obviously don't have the time to comment much on policy development, so I would encourage everyone to think about and comment on the proposals above in earlier sections of this Pub and that are also highlighted from time to time at Rfc. --W. Franke-mailtalk 13:43, 14 October 2013 (EDT)

Good External link format

Did it change recently? I was editing Vilnius listings and changed "old format" (with footnotes) to the "new" blue/bold format in accordance with this instruction, but yesterday (19 Nov) most of them were reverted to the footnote style again. Could someone shed a light on this, which style is now correct and which one is not? --Local (talk) 03:58, 20 November 2013 (EST)

Clarify I'm not sure that I understand what the dispute is... Can you provide a diff to show me the competing styles? Koavf (talk) 14:52, 20 November 2013 (EST)
Here for example. I assume AntonBryl is a reliable user, and yesterday he changed most of the listings with blue clickable external links to footnote style links - actually all his edits here are only creating the footnotes, you can check any of them. So i'm asking whether they became "good style" again? --Local (talk) 15:19, 20 November 2013 (EST)
Footnotes After I responded here and before I read your response immediately above this, I edited the article myself. The problem is that some entries had more than one link (e.g. the first word linked to the government's site and this was followed by a tourism site. I removed the former and just kept the latter as that is probably what a traveler would want.) So when you have text like "such and such is a good place to visit [1]" you can easily change it to "[such and such] is a good place to visit" and incorporate the link into the text. That way, when it's printed, you won't see these garish numbers floating there adding no value. Unfortunately, when you have text like "You can find some schedules for regional buses [here]." or "For more information on renting a car, visit [1] or [2]." (which are actual excerpts from the present revision of the page), then the printable version is going to include useless or confusing copy. So the wording needs to be amended so that it doesn't explicitly say things like "here's a link to a resource" and instead says things about those resources and includes external links in the text itself. In short, you are correct that the footnote style external links are generally to be avoided (I can't think of any exceptions to this rule) and text should be amended so that it doesn't just refer to WT as an online travel guide but a multi-media one as well. Koavf (talk) 16:01, 20 November 2013 (EST)
You are right, of course, i'm aware about that all, just those particular places you have edited need to be more modified, e.g. regarding that "double" external link - they both are ok (and meet these requirements), simply the text should be expanded a little by adding some extra details to content, then adding that second link to the corresponding text. Same about those other links: there is a bit of a mess in that section in general, so the entire text should be revised and modified accordingly. So in short, your edits are OK but they are still incomplete. Just in case you decide to continue.--Local (talk) 03:12, 21 November 2013 (EST)
Hi, sorry for that, I guess I was unaware of the new style. I still find it strange (would not it be more logical to change the behaviour of see/eat/etc tags to deal with names and urls differently throughout the site?..) but if that's what's expected now, feel free to just revert my changes. AntonBryl. 16:13, 20 November 2013 (EST)
To be clear, the concern is that there is a tag system with designated 'name' and 'url' fields, and the new formatting is taking the values away from the fields (leaving them empty), thus basically making the markup semantically inconsistent. 16:20, 20 November 2013 (EST)
OK, Anton, could you do "undo", or should i do that again? :D
If you was confused why some of the listings are formatted in "new" style and others on the same section were left with footnotes - i was changing them, but didn't change everything so far, so there is some sort of a mix. And blue style is "good", footnote style is "bad". I was told so. And i accept that. Blue clickable style is much more practical. --Local (talk) 16:33, 20 November 2013 (EST)
Done (just in case, I guess you know that each change is actually undoable in a click? :) There are links for that on history page).
New style is nicer visually indeed, but I do not understand why it's done on page-by-page basis and not by changing the tag behavior (to produce exactly the same visual appearance with blue links, but without leaving tag field empty). The result as it is now ruins the tag semantics so much that tags hardly make any sense after that (and I guess they were introduced for a reason). 16:49, 20 November 2013 (EST)
Why it's done on "page-by-page basis" and not by "changing the tag behavior" i don't know exactly but it was explained here, so to me it was sufficient. I'm aware about the "undo" links on history page, but i tried to use it once and it didn't work to me, so my "awareness" is rather useless :). Thanks for reverting. Issue is solved. --Local (talk) 03:12, 21 November 2013 (EST)