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User talk:WTjk44/Archive 2005

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Welcome to Wikitravel! Thank you for your contributions to the Falklands. Jpatokal 00:13, 15 Feb 2005 (EST)

Image license

Hi, Ryan.

I see that you hold the copyright on Image:01-denali-from-reflection-pond.jpg, so please explicitly license it under CC-SA and indicate so on the image page. Thanks. -- Paul Richter 04:48, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)

Um, according to the license here ("Please note that all contributions to Wikitravel are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 license.") I thought all contributions were automatically CC-SA? What else do I need to do? -- Wrh2 07:03, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Nothing, really, but if you're going to explicitly assert your copyright in the image description, it's nice to also explicitly state that you release it under CC-SA. I don't bother doing either as both copyright and CC-SA are assumed by default... Jpatokal 07:12, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Yes, but Paul also gave the year of the copyright, which means that some time when we are all dead, other people will know when it goes into public domain, if there still is a public doamin by then. Also I do not think that it can be assumed that the user uploading a picture is also the copyright holder, and the name of the copyright holder is useful if you want to e.g. give credit or get permission to use it in a way not allowed by the CC license. Maybe we should make the Image Policy more precise. (By the way the link to it from the upload page is broken). -- elgaard 07:57, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Probably the biggest advantage is that people will know you understand our license and stop leaving messages on your talk page about it. B-) --Evan 07:23, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Insomnia is preventing me from making a sufficiently witty remark here, so I'll just go ahead and make the changes. Thanks! -- Wrh2 07:31, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Yeah, Evan put it best, thanks. I raised the issue because the image has already been published on your own (extlinked) website under non-CC-SA compatible terms. [1] Fortunately it was clear after seeing your user page that you hold the copyright and I assume are re-licensing it under CC-SA. But if not for that, I'd be apt to assume it's a copyvio. -- Paul Richter 07:35, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)
Makes sense, I've added a license statement to every image that I've uploaded, so it should now be clear 1) that I'm the copyright holder, 2) where the original image came from (in case someone doesn't believe that I'm the copyright holder), and 3) that I'm licensing the image under the Attribution-ShareAlike license. My original thought in adding the copyright statement was to show where the image came from (a lot of images here seem to come from sources other than the submitter) and also to give a copyright date so that in a gazillion years when I'm long gone (assuming Congress doesn't pass another Mickey Mouse extension) this stuff can drop into public domain. -- Wrh2 08:00, 2 Mar 2005 (EST)


Hi! Great work on the Falkland Islands! I was noticing that the regions listed for the islands includes an entry for East Falkland and West Falkland (both pages don't exist yet). Do you think we need pages for each island, or should we unlinkify the two islands? For example, if the main islands page sufficiently covers topics for both islands, we don't really need a per-island page. -- Colin 21:22, 10 Mar 2005 (EST)

Thanks! I've been debating about the East Falkland and West Falkland links, and don't really know what to do. I probably wouldn't have created them as links if I had started the page from scratch, but they were there when I started. I guess since two people are wondering about them then it's enough impetus to drop them, and if anyone who has more experience on the main islands comes along in the future and sees a need to add them back then they can do so. -- Wrh2 21:43, 10 Mar 2005 (EST)


Hi Ryan,

I see that you've been to the Galapagos Islands quite a lot. I spent (only) a week there a couple of years ago. It would be good to have some really good articles, but I don't fancy doing it all on my own. Do you have some time next week to possibly help me start putting something more together? -- DanielC 17:11, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Hi Daniel,
I've been meaning to add more info on the Galapagos Islands, Antarctica, and Alaska, but keep getting sidetracked with national parks... that said, if you feel like starting some Galapagos articles I'd be happy to dive in and help make updates. Any thought as to how you're going to do it? I would assume that an article for each island would make sense, although most of the standard headings (Sleep, Eat, Drink, Buy, Get In, Get Out, Get Around) don't really apply since the only way of seeing places is on a boat tour. -- Wrh2 17:37, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)
Yep. I'd though of starting with a Galapagos Wildlife page, with sub-pages for birds, underwater (etc?), then articles for each of the uninhabited islands pointing out the permitted landing places and dive/snorkel spots, with the usual info for the inhabited (two?) islands. Any thoughts? -- DanielC 13:05, 10 Jun 2005 (EDT)
The Galapagos Wildlife page sounds like a good idea (sort of like African flora and fauna). Puerto Ayora probably needs its own article, but the lodging on Isabela Island, San Cristobal Island and Floreana Island can probably be worked into the island pages. I may have some time this weekend to get things started, otherwise go for it and I'll help out as I can. -- Wrh2 15:22, 11 Jun 2005 (EDT)
I've had a start. I think that it's more natural to call the island eg. Floreana, rather than Floreana Island - that's what I've done so far. What do you think?
I've had a start on a standrard layout format on the article for Espanola. Any comments? -- DanielC 11:44, 12 Jun 2005 (EDT)
The Galapagos Wildlife page is awesome -- I'll try and add to it as time permits, although I've suddenly gotten a bit busy. Dropping the "Island" from the article names seems fine, too. I took a stab at making some updates to the Galapagos article, but feel free to revert any of my changes; mostly I was just trying to use the standard template format where it made sense.
And the format you're using for Espanola seems logical to me. Any preference on whether changing the headings to "Visitor sites" and "Underwater sites" might be simpler? Beyond that, I like the idea of making each island page be a description of the island (Understand) with a listing of land sites (Visitor sites) and snorkeling/diving sites (Underwater sites); there doesn't seem to be much else to add unless there is somewhere to sleep or a permanent research site, in which case a Sleep or Work section might be called for. -- Wrh2 03:23, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)
Please see Talk:Galapagos Wildlife#Galapagos for more discussion. Please share these thoughts by putting them on article talk pages when the articles are created. That way others can understand why and support your efforts. -- Huttite 08:48, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)
Just FYI, I hit an ambiguity problem pertaining to Espanola, as I'm working on a town of the same name (except for a troublesome tilde) in New Mexico, United States. Have tried to disambiguate by moving to Espanola (Galapagos) and setting up a disambiguation page, and am about 80% of the way through repairing links. The image of the blue-footed boobies (a real winner...) seems to have disappeared in the transition. Could you look into it? Thanks. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:09, 29 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Administrative nomination

You have been nominated for admin status on Wikitravel. You can view the current discussion about this at Wikitravel:Administrator nominations. If you are interested, please indicate your willingness on Wikitravel:Administrator nominations. -- Colin 11:40, 13 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Creating disambiguating pages

I noticed that when you converted "Arlington" to a disambiguation page, you created a NEW article for Arlington (Vermont). It would be better to MOVE the page and only create the disambiguation page from the redirection page. That way all the editing information of the old page is transfered to the new article and it is clear the new disambiguation page is not based on the moved article. -- Huttite 19:21, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

My bad - it occurred to me immediately after hitting "Submit" that I had screwed up. Luckily I usually only make the same mistake four or five times before my tiny brain figures things out, so next time there is at least a one-in-four chance that I'll do it correctly =) -- Wrh2 19:25, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)
Call it a software bug... Also the Move button is hard to find. -- Huttite 19:57, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)
Agreed. Personally, for a button whose purpose is to move an article, I find the label to be terribly confusing. -- Wrh2 20:57, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Standard headers

You may like to take a look at Talk:Madrid, where I have made a certain number of comments on this question. -- Picapica 19:11, 23 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Admin nomination

Now the tables are turned! B-) I've added an nomination for User:Pjamescowie to become an admin. Please stop by and give your opinion. --Evan 19:46, 2 Jul 2005 (EDT) (P.S. That's a great saguaro you got there.)


I hadn't looked at Yosemite since I last added one or two hikes to it. My jaw dropped on the floor. Nice work! -- Colin 01:37, 13 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Thanks! Yosemite is probably the park I visit the most, and hopefully the article will soon do justice to the place. I saw the note on your todo list and hoped you wouldn't mind me plunging ahead with that article, although in fairness at the moment the National Park Service is responsible for a good bit of the data -- I've probably only hiked 1/3 of the listed trails, and I've never stayed in any of the lodges. Please add whatever you can! -- Ryan 05:35, 13 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Interwiki links

Hi Wrh2

the reason i changed your WikiPedia:Vermont link to Wikipedia:Vermont is that only the latter is recognized by the mediawiki software as being a proper interwiki link (it's case sensitive).


Got your links and I see that it is in the guidelines, but look at the bottom of Vermont and you'll see that your link disappears because the software is not recognizing that casing, whereas the Wikipedia links up in the history section work, and are not camel-cased.
I see. Thanks very much. I'll change my other links to the :WikiPedia:... format

California map

Kudos to you, Ryan! Great job on that map. One quibble, though: could you please upload an SVG or another vector-graphics file (Illustrator, PostScript, whatever) so that others can modify the map later? It's _really_ hard to edit bitmap files like a JPG. --Evan 08:46, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thanks! The SVG file is now available, but please see my note about SVG file download on your talk page - currently there is no way to download an SVG file. -- Ryan 17:42, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

add town that may (possibly) be in Alameda County

"possibly". Heh. I dunno how I missed that one. -- Colin 19:37, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

i'm so horrible with the names of counties around here that, sadly, it's the only city that i knew for certain was in alameda county. even worse, i lived in oakland for two years! -- Ryan 19:51, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for double-checking some of my work. It's a lot of boilerplate, and I'm prone to errors when doing that... like following a link from Santa Clara to create a new Gilroy (California) article and not checking to see if Gilroy exists first. -- Colin 00:53, 6 Aug 2005 (EDT)

no worries at all -- i figure that's the biggest benefit to the whole wiki idea. it was reassuring to know that any changes i made during the recent california region updates would be done with you (and others) looking over my shoulder. -- Wrh2 05:49, 6 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I don't know how you do it

Amazing job... thanks again. --Evan 23:01, 14 Aug 2005 (EDT)


Thanks for working on that. I hope you didn't copy the list of cities directly from Wikipedia -- their list seems a bit overlong. I've been comparing Wikipedia against yahoo's list of cities for each county, and adding only cities which appear in both lists. It cuts down the length of the list a bit. -- Colin 02:43, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Yeah, the list came from Wikipedia, which I figured was fine since they pulled it from the US Census Bureau. I've pared it down to just what is common between WikiPedia and Yahoo. Sorry for the trouble -- in my efforts to save you some work it looks like I may have actually created more. Doh! -- Ryan 03:01, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)
You definitely saved me time -- thanks! I'm done for the evening now. -- Colin 03:19, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

And thanks again for checking many of those edits. Boilerplate makes cj error prone. I may end up sticking US hotels into some LatAm city. -- Colin 03:23, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

No worries at all -- I was getting ready to go to bed myself, but when I noticed county descriptions that included comparisons to sneezing and spelling bees thought it might be worth sticking around a few minutes longer to see what other entertainment might occur ;) I'll leave it to someone else to propertly disambiguate Fortuna as I have to be up early for work. -- Ryan 03:25, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the welcome

Belated thanks for the welcome. I'm not a mega-traveller, but I plan to be an occasional contributer here anyway. I have been to a number of National Parks, including minor ones (Ever been to Brices Cross Roads National Battlefield Site? The name is bigger than the park!) and may add some write-ups from time to time. --Eoghanacht 15:42, 24 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Ditto. Thanks for the pointers. -- repayne 15:12, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Me too; thanks for the welcome and the kind words. You might drop by the page that I've been working on, on Bandelier National Monument, and pass me any suggestions for improvements. (Sure wish I could glom onto one or two of the Bandelier photos at WikiPedia.) I'm done with that page for now, apart from edits that you and others might suggest, but will be adding other stuff pertaining to northern New Mexico as time allows. Bill-on-the-Hill 21:54, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thanks Ryan for the quick welcome to WikiTravel

Thanks for seeing my cleanups to the Calendar of events and festivals! I look forward to contributing where I can :) --Tomwebbnz 12:20, 31 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Pub crawl

Hey, thanks a ton for sweepin' the pub! --Evan 07:23, 2 Sep 2005 (EDT)

No problem, insomnia struck and it gave me something to do for a bit. With another round of sweeping the pub should be back to a manageable size. -- Ryan 12:56, 2 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Thanks for the pub sweepage and the VFD resolutions! Those are some of the grungiest jobs around here -- Colin 00:42, 3 Sep 2005 (EDT)

The pub sweep continues... I'm done for the night, but it's down to a more reasonable level. If anyone else wants to join in, the first six remaining discussions (at least) can probably also be archived. -- Ryan 02:37, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Special J

So when you look at pages like Island nations, does the navigation bar look, uh, right to you? Or am I the only one whose browser is getting a Japanese infection. -- Colin 16:16, 15 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I got that last night on Wikitravel:List of Wikitravellers by location and assumed that my recent bout of insomnia was just waaaay worse than I'd realized. Given that this is either a group hallucination or an actual bug, it may be worth mentioning on the bug reports page. As far as I can tell, the special recipe to change languages seems to be that Mnd has to edit the page, which apparently caches a version with Japanese in it. -- Ryan 16:28, 15 Sep 2005 (EDT)
Editing the page seems to fix it, which reinforces the idea that it's a cache issue. -- Ryan 16:31, 15 Sep 2005 (EDT)


Thanks Ryan, for mentioning that I missed to change the template headings in Jaldapara, Garumara, Sajnekhali. Actually I closed my browser with all the open tabs and missed those pages. I corrected the error, and soon I shall add more information to those pages if not somebody else starts adding it before me.

Thank you once again

Kaushik 13:02, 21 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Santa Fe as a DotM?

Thanks for the latest round of kind words :-) on my work on Santa Fe (New Mexico). I agree: Santa Fe would make a great Destination of the Month. Any suggestions on finding a public-domain photo or two to add to the article? I'm not a particularly good photographer and don't have anything in my own collection that would be worth putting in. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:05, 28 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Yahoo CC, Commons, Flikr Most of them are CC-2.0, but you can probably get permission for CC-1.0. --elgaard 15:10, 29 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Uh, Ryan, why that last revert to the Santa Fe page? I actually made the reverted change myself. I just wasn't on a computer that I could easily login from (was traveling this weekend to check a few things out and used somebody else's comp while on the road). The "teenager, not much to do" verbiage long pre-dated my work on that page and is much at odds with other things on it, but I wanted to leave the earlier poster's remarks about movie houses, etc.

Meanwhile, I got a connection to some photos that I think will top the thing off. Will apply them as soon as the guy who promised them gets home and sends me mail. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:00, 2 Oct 2005 (EDT)

As I said on the Santa Fe talk page: no prob. I agree that the new stuff doesn't "look quite right," but I am searching for a tactful way to include what the earlier contributor said (minus the manifestly wrong "not much to do" part) within the framework of the overall article. It's not always a smooth fit, but one would prefer to be inclusive. Incidentally, I've added a bunch of other stuff on "Festivals" (hopefully following the standard format :-) ); would appreciate your critique. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:54, 2 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Xiangcheng image

Hi Ryan, thanks for trying to help me. Actually, the image is there. It only takes a few minutes on commons and several hundred pix are added, so it already dropped of the list when you checked. You can find it here, and in the German wikipedia I managed to integrate it. But not in wikitravel. Any more ideas? --Ront 14:11, 22 Oct 2005 (EDT) Ah, just realised that we are talking different things: I uploaded the image to wikimedia.commons, since I wanted it to be available for every wiki. It's not in Wikitravel. But still, the image-policy states that commons material can be integrated as long as it is licensed ok. --Ront 14:19, 22 Oct 2005 (EDT)


Thanks for the quick welcome! I've been poking around here a bit and I quite like it, so I think I'll stick around. New Hampshire needs a lot of work for starters... :-) Andromeda321 23:18, 24 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Heh, can't say I'd blame you for leaving Cleveland. Weather's beginning to turn, and I'm already getting antsy about my snow boots... by the way quick question, is there any reason there's no lists of places that share a common activity and such? (For example, I'm a ski bum and find it sort of odd that you need to physically go search out ski resorts instead of just going to a "list of ski resorts.") If I'm missing something tell me as right now it seems like such a feature would be useful for a few things. Yvette 00:46, 25 Oct 2005 (EDT)
Alrighty, thanks for the help so far! I've taken your advice and added an Alpine Skiing article, and I'll get around to changing the copyright stuff on the images ASAP. Andromeda321 00:19, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)

On Wheels (sigh...)

Thanks for the "On Wheels" explanation. I suppose that the rest of us have enough weird quirks that there's no point in throwing stones at that one, eh? Speaking of quirks, a quirk of the "history" pages is that the original rename/redirect by WoW doesn't seem to appear, which is why I was flummoxed as to what was going on. With a history to follow, I would probably have reasoned it all out eventually. Anyway, all's well that ends well, or is it all's weird that ends weird? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:38, 1 Nov 2005 (EST)

Peirce Mill

Wrh2 (Talk) (rvt spelling "fix". the name of the mill is peirce mill.) - apologies & thanks

No apology necessary - thanks for all of the spelling fixes. -- Ryan 21:55, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)

LA County Regions

You're doing isIn templates for LA County cities, which is great. But don't you think it would be better to use the regions of LA County, too? --Evan 13:05, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

Sorry, haven't had my coffee yet. I'll go back and see if I can clean it up a bit. -- Ryan 13:11, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)
No biggie! I was wondering if you were doing it on purpose. The breadcrumb list to get to Avalon, for example, has 8 entries! I think it's OK, but I was wondering if you were amending them for some reason. --Evan 13:28, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)
Some of the breadcrumb lists will probably get long, but it seems like more specific is most likely better. I'm still kind of new to LA, so still sort of figuring out where everything is. The breadcrumb is very, very cool by the way - I think it makes the guides vastly more useful, so kudos to you for implementing it. -- Ryan 13:34, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

Wanna play art critic? ;-)

Thanks for the feedback on the stuff at my Santa Fe photo page; I've changed the text you noticed. Now, if you wouldn't mind, please pass through there and critique the other photos beyond the St. Francis Cathedral one. I'd like to add one or two more to the Santa Fe (New Mexico) page but would value the opinions of you and a few other WT old hands as to which ones to include. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:25, 9 Dec 2005 (EST)

(copied from User talk:Bill-on-the-Hill/SFpix)
Thanks for the input. The Santuario is indeed a "famous" church, if not as famous (or ornate) as St. Francis, and the Museum Christmas shot is of the portico of a museum, not a market. There's stuff in the main Santa Fe article that connects to all of these -- I think. (May have to add a little on the museum; I'll check.) I've asked Jpatokal to take a look too, per your suggestion. Your cold-places site is great! -- Bill-on-the-Hill 00:58, 10 Dec 2005 (EST)


I've got a proposal for a bot to do the cleanup work on breadcrumb navigation here: Wikitravel:Script nominations#YggdrasilBot. Your comment welcome, please. --Evan 00:07, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)


Yeah, there are a bunch of regions, not sure we want to list them all right now, but I do know that Montpelier is not in Southern, but in central. Will do some more work on Montpelier when I have time. I have some pics of the State House and will upload one of those. Also add other stuff. --Xltel ha! not sure how to add time stamp, newbee 4 sure... 15 Dec 2005

My fault

No there was no reason to add the link on Europe. I thought I was deleting the link instead of reverting the deletion --elgaard 20:49, 15 Dec 2005 (EST)

Articles needing attention

Glad to help. To be honest, I'm surprised we don't have a bot for that yet. My programming skills are way obsolete now, but it just doesn't seem like that hard a thing to write. Evan says he has (or had) time for some programming, and I was sort of expecting that that was one bot that would emerge. Is it harder than I think it is? Categories still too unstable (although they seem to be stabilizing)? What? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:41, 18 Dec 2005 (EST)

My guess is that setting up the organizational hierarchy would be the issue for a bot. Perhaps once the isIn template has taken better hold then something could be worked out. Speaking of which, it would also be nice to have a bot that identified pages without an isIn notation - if no one beats me to it I may have a go at it at some point, although I'm notoriously lazy... -- Ryan 00:49, 21 Dec 2005 (EST)
It would also be great with a more detailed list. Ie. "all destinations in France without a geo tag." --elgaard 06:50, 21 Dec 2005 (EST)

United States National Parks

(copied from Talk:United States National Parks)

So, based upon the above discussion, I've added VCNP and Staircase-Escalante; added a disclaimer to St. Helens; and put some language at the top of the "by state/territory" section explaining why they (and others to come) don't appear on the maps. See what you think, and feel free to edit (the language at the top could easily fit somewhere else). -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:41, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)

Update: I've now added all of the BLM monuments that were created at the beginning of 2001, except for one or two that are just expansions of previously existing parks and monuments. They're in AZ, CA, CO, ID, MT, NM, OR and UT, for purposes of updating maps. Most don't meet the "you can sleep there" test as destinations, but Grand Staircase-Escalante really deserves an article. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:17, 30 Dec 2005 (EST)