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User talk:WTanjui/Archives 2007

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This is an archive of discussions on my talk page from 2007. No further edits should be made to this page.



Hey, I was wondering if you ever though about utilizing networks of ex-pats and English/German/etc speaking youth in Georgia and other places to help build up information on the country? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cupcakecommander (talkcontribs)

Not a bad idea. Unfortunately, I'm bad about holding on to email addresses... --Peterfitzgerald 23:02, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Official welcome[edit]


Welcome to Wikitravel. You can edit your preferences to change how the software works for you. Please take a second to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you're new to our wiki software, MediaWiki, look at the Wiki markup to get an idea of how to edit a page. If you need help, check out the help desk, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.

Again, welcome to the wonderful world of Wikitravel and if you have any questions feel free to ask. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 22:44, 26 February 2007 (EST)

Georgian phrasebook[edit]

Wow, nice work getting it started! - Cacahuate 01:23, 28 February 2007 (EST)


You asked about satellite imaging a few days ago and depending on how dedicated you are to expanding our Eurasian guides. I'm looking into a program, which may provide these images. If you'll remind me within the next three days to get back to you about it I'll let you know, if it works. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 00:19, 5 March 2007 (EST)

It's not working, yet. I can zoom in on Tbilisi, but everything gets blurry. The reason for that may be because I limited the size of information that can be downloaded.
I'm still a little curious about the satellite images, since they are created by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Normally, all works are public domain, however, the program, which was created by the agency is not public domain, but is similar in spirit to the GNU FDL license. I've sent an email asking about this issue, though.
Anyhow, if you want to try it out the program is called World Wind [1]. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:41, 7 March 2007 (EST)
Ok, well I did the reading I should have done in the first place and apparently the LandSat satellites have poor resolution. Apparently the only reason U.S. destinations can have such clarity and great resolutions is because it's a combination of different works. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:59, 7 March 2007 (EST)

Photo of Charleston WV[edit]

Your picture of the Capitol building in Charleston is beautiful! Unless you object, I've added it to the main West Virginia page. Funnily enough, I was just thinking that it would be nice to put a picture of the Capitol there, and not an hour later I stumbled upon yours. Thanks for posting it! — Haem85 03:29, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Hey thanks! I went a bit out of my way to get that photo, which includes the backyard of someone's house on the opposite side of the river! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:14, 31 March 2007 (EDT)
Ha, wow - now that's determination! Love the blooming tree in the foreground - a very nice splash of color! -- Haem85 21:26, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

USA Map[edit]

Hello Peter, I just saw your map about the US states you visited. It looks like a map we are searching for weeks now. I made a template on the German version of Wikitravel showing the location of a city in the country. To make it easy to use, you only have to give a "map code" and the coordinates (latitude/longitude). The problem with this system is, that we need a special map projection so that the template can easyly calculate the position of a given location in the map.

I could not find a good map about the US so what we are using now is not really nice, look at de:New_York_City/Manhattan. So it would be nice if you could upload a plain version of your map! Thanks! --Flip666 writeme! • 19:15, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

Flip, that's the map made by World66! --Evan 12:55, 6 April 2007 (EDT)


Peter: I'm really glad to hear that you're overhauling the Wikitravel:geographical hierarchy for Russia. Could you do me a favor and document the hierarchy on Talk:Russia, just so it's clear to everyone working on Russian articles? The hierarchical list format on Talk:Southern California/Hierarchy is useful, but you can also just make a list like in Talk:China#Regions. Thanks, --Evan 12:59, 6 April 2007 (EDT)

It's now available here. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:57, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

You have several Russian region articles proposed for deletion because they've been replaced in the new scheme. I just turned Primorskiy Krai into a redirect instead. This is cheap and it means anyone who searches for that spelling will find the correct page. Can others be handled the same way? Ir looks possible to me, but I don't know Russia. Pashley 08:35, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, you are right, I have changed vfds to redirects where possible. Northern Russia should still be deleted, however. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 11:16, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
Also, if you "move" articles rather than copy-and-pasting then redirecting, the history gets kept -- meaning that other people get credit for their work. See Wikitravel:How to rename a page. --Evan 12:09, 10 April 2007 (EDT)
Ah, sorry about that. This Russia task is pretty big, so I have been discovering region pages after having created new ones - is there any way to merge two articles without losing the history of one of them? --Peterfitzgerald Talk 12:14, 10 April 2007 (EDT)

feedback for wikitravel[edit]

Hi, thanks for your email about the East Sussex pages, i live in East sussex and guide books seem to pass it over, so thought i'd add a little somethign to the page; anyway, Ive contacted you since you appear to be quite big in 'wikitravel' and was wondering if you could give me the contact details fo the founders/ programmers/ owners of wikitravel, as I ahve an idea...

Could wikitravel not have a feedback console for each article, giving people the ability to leave feedback for each article, giving plus points or points of improvement? which could then be followed upon, or praise for the article, i often read articles and feel guilty that the person who spent time and effort creating the article is not getting thanks for his or her for thier gratious work.

thanks anyway


name problems[edit]

Hi, I ahve a problem with editing my local area, I am trying to create a page for Heathfield, Sussex, but there is already a Heathfield, Australia, how can I create a Heathfield sussex page without having to call it (as I ahev already tried to do) heathfield_uk which doesnt seem to be in line with wikitravels formatting proceedures.





From tomorrow, i will add more images to Georgia article. Thanks a lot for your massage. Love Georgia. CanadianTraveler 15:40, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

West Virginia[edit]

Thanks - it did get me thinking that there are lots of cities that aren't listed on a region page. I think I'll make that my next undertaking. -- Fastestdogever 22:19, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Yup, looks good. When you get a chance, see if you can figure out the colors so the boxes correspond to the region. They're called "Web-safe colors" (at least in Corel). Black is "000000" and white is "FFFFFF" - the colors should be some mix of F's C's & #'s. Let me know if you have a problem & I'll try explaining it better. -- Fastestdogever 15:14, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
Nice job on the map - looks good! -- Fastestdogever 16:26, 3 May 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter, Gori sounds like an interesting place. For gneral guidance on articles, see Wikitravel:Manual of style and probably more usefully, Wikitravel:Small city article template. For this article, I think it needs specific information on the attractions and sleep, buy listings etc so that you can really plan your trip - addresses, phone numbers, opening hours, prices etc. I gather from the article that there are probably not many more listings to add, but those that are there could be sharpened up a bit. Let me know if you want any further advice on this. -- DanielC 16:44, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, I'll see if I can find some more specific listings info to get this article up to "guide" status—it would be my first! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 19:15, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

Persian phrasebook[edit]

Do you know much about Persian? If so, please comment on Talk:Persian_phrasebook#Persian_vs._Farsi. Thanks! – cacahuate talk 02:16, 28 April 2007 (EDT)

Districtising Chicago[edit]

You mentioned about working on some district articles for Chicago (particularly Hyde Park) a while back. Just letting you know that its a good idea as the main article is a bit too big and could do with some of the actual listings being tucked away to make the article easier to read. However, it's worth waiting until there's a bit of a consensus before going ahead with splitting up an article as it can be a bit of a waste of time if you do too many districts and have to redo them! I will have a scour round and see if I can find some people who know Chicago reasonably well to comment on the splitting and make some suggestions (I can't - I've never been there before!) -- -- Tim (writeme!) 14:48, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

I can certainly help with the southside neighborhoods, but I never ventured too far north of the river! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 10:03, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

Russian Maps[edit]

Have a look at University of Texas Library - Map collection, specifically russia_pol_1994.pdf

The copyright looks good as well, from their FAQ:

  • Are the maps copyrighted?

Most of the maps scanned by the University of Texas Libraries and served from this web site are in the public domain. No permissions are needed to copy them. You may download them and use them as you wish. A few maps are copyrighted, and are clearly marked as such. Any that are copyrighted by The University of Texas are subject to our Materials Usage Guidelines. A few maps include the official seal of a U.S. Government agency. Federal law prohibits use of these seals in connection with any merchandise, impersonation, solicitation, or commercial activity in a manner reasonably calculated to convey the impression that such use is approved, endorsed, or authorized by the agency. We do appreciate hearing from you about your uses of these materials and we would also appreciate your giving this site credit when it is referred to in anything you publish. Other sites may link to our site or to individual maps without our permission. Other map-related web sites we link to are frequently protected by copyright. Contact them for information about their usage policies.

If you need help getting the tracing done, let me know.

--NJR_ZA 16:29, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks Nick, I may well need some help with tracing—tracing my Russia#Regions map took way longer than I think it should have. On the upside, I think I finally have good enough source images to get moving on regional maps for Russia! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:52, 1 May 2007 (EDT)

Tracing Maps[edit]

Setting the path width: Object→Fill and Stroke→Stroke Style ... you will find an option to set the stroke width there.

Individual opbects: Once I have completed the trace, I create layers for each object I want, then I copy the trace onto one of those layers, delete the paths that don't belong there and join the paths that are left to become one object. Repeat for each object you want. It's a bit more work, but you do end up with a much move useful and flexible map. --NJR_ZA 01:50, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Automated tracing potrace vs. autotrace[edit]

I've been looking at autotrace and it seems to do a rather better job than potrace (the tracer embedded in inkscape). It has a centerline option that results in the output generating a path rather than an enclosed shape, exactly what you wanted earlier.

You might want to give this one a try.

Best results so far are on black and white images and they are not perfect yet, but definitely workable; I'll continue testing.

Command line options are quite easy to use \autotrace-0.31.1-w32>autotrace -output-file testout.svg -output-format svg -report-progress -centerline testin.gif

I just ran a test over one of the maps you found using the following options:
D:\Download\autotrace-0.31.1-w32>autotrace -output-file m.svg -output-format svg -report-progress -centerline -background-color fce0ec "\WikiTravel\maps\tmp\BlankMap-RussiaDistricts-Mercator.png"
You can find the result at Image:Map-Russia01.svg. Obviously the paths will have to be manually combined to create usable objects, but the trace looks rather good. This will save a heap of time. --NJR_ZA 09:54, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
Scratch that, it get's better, way way better. Autotrace is far better than I ever expected any tracing program to be.
I did some cleanup of the source png in the GIMP to make it a nice clean black and white image. Then I ran autotrace without the -centerline option and it was bright enough to create perfectly traced objects for each district. The command was simply: autotrace -output-file Russia02.svg -output-format svg -report-progress BlankMap-RussiaDistricts-Mercator-BW.png and I ended up with a nice svg that I imported into our template and created Image:Map-Russia02.svg.
Because everything was so easy and working so nicely I then went ahead and coloured the regions as per your existing map. Image:Map-Russia03.svg
Autotrace rocks! --NJR_ZA 14:35, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Hey, I wanna join the party! Am I right in seeing that it's only for Windows? If I have to manually trace another map I'm gonna have a meltdown... just finished Asia... uggghh.... – cacahuate talk 21:48, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

Me again, let's move this discussion to Wikitravel talk:How to draw a map so others can see it and hopefully chime in. I like where we're heading! – cacahuate talk 23:29, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

West Virginia Map[edit]

That map looks good to me. Correct font, wikitravel logo and matches the article.

As far as the article goes, I would rather swap the first map on that article with the photo just below it, maps are nice, but a photo describes a region or place a lot better than a map and it is alway nicer and better to have a photo as the intro image rather than a map.

--NJR_ZA 16:51, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Siberia map[edit]

The Siberia map looks great. However, I have a question: At the moment, Siberia is divided into three regions - Eastern Siberia, Krasnoyarsk Krai, and Western Siberia. On the map, the former is color coded blue and the latter green. However, Krasnoyarsk Krai appears to comprise only one section of the large purple area. Is there a name for that whole region that includes Taymyria and Evenkia in addition to Krasnoyarsk Krai? Incidentally, thanks for all your help with the Russian articles. You've really made a very positive and helpful contribution. Cheers. WindHorse 03:37, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for your reply. Actually, had I first looked at the Krasnoyarsk Krai article, I would have realized that Krasnoyarsk region was not the same as the krai, but only part of it. Maybe a key on the map identifying the three color coded areas might help clarify the situation. What do you think? Anyway, I'll leave any decision on that in your capable hands. Already it's good enough. WindHorse 03:57, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

Cities of the Russian Federation[edit]

So, I wanted to draw your attention to Wikitravel:World cities#Russian Federation. It might be a good idea to make sure all of those cities are listed in the new hierarchy for Russia. What would be great would be to actually make stubs for each! --Evan 11:47, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

Working on it ;) --Peterfitzgerald Talk 11:49, 8 May 2007 (EDT)


Discussion moved to Talk:Russia#Oblasts

Administrator nomination[edit]

I've just nominated you as a Wikitravel administrator. See Wikitravel:Administrators for what that entails and Wikitravel:Administrator_nominations#Nominations for the discussion of your nomination. Please let us know on the latter page whether you accept. Pashley 23:58, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

New Map[edit]

Looks good. To add the internet cafes, I think you should add a Contact heading to the annotation box (to keep them matching the sections in the article) and list the internet cafes under there. Unfortunately we do not have an internet cafe icon on the template yet. I'll build us one this afternoon and add it to the template. Will let you know when it is ready. --NJR_ZA 01:29, 24 May 2007 (EDT)

Internet cafe icon has now been added to shared:Image:Wikitravel-map-template-PD.svg -- NJR_ZA 01:21, 25 May 2007 (EDT)
Great! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:28, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Gori Map[edit]

Hi Peter, I like what you did with the map...much easier to read. Scratch the earlier message, assuming you got it. I figured out how to edit SVG files and made a few minor changes--added the bus terminal, post office, and repositioned Gori State University. Please check and see if it meets with your approval. I'm going to see a few friends this weekend, and going to try to get them to help edit the pages for their respective sites.

Chicago districts[edit]

Wow! I didn't mean to rain on your parade. Sorry but for some reason I had overlooked the neighbourhoods discussion, and so I just forged ahead. I think your scheme is pretty close to the one that I was trying to implement, with a couple of exceptions.

I think one of the main goals with these district pages should be to create coherent pages with enough information for a traveller. Unfortunately if we just split up the city from the point of view of locals we'll wind up with pages (as in the case of the port of Chicago) with practically no information at all.

Anyhow, I'll give the talk page a read, and comment there. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one interested in fixing this up. -- Mark 08:12, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

Master oblaster[edit]


Congratulations on finishing Russia (or at least the regioning of it)! The underlying structure of a guide like Wikitravel isn't sexy work, but it makes a huge difference to have it done, and to have it done well. I hereby award you this Wikitravel Barnstar for your efforts. - Todd VerBeek

Hey, I meant to do that yesterday and forgot! Consider it Barnstar2!! – cacahuate talk 21:52, 28 May 2007 (EDT)
Thank you both! This has been a pretty big task and it feels good to have reached something approaching completion (by wiki standards). Oh and I like the title ;) --Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:35, 29 May 2007 (EDT)


Have you spent much time in Baku? If so, I've attempted to split that huuuuuuge list of restaurants up into budget/mid/splurge categories, but to be completely honest, I just picked arbitrary points to split at (up to 10 AZN as budget, 10-20 AZN as mid and 20+ AZN as splurge) so it would be great if you could just give it a quick check! Also, there's a whole bunch without prices which I plonked into mid range - if you know any of them, please put them into the correct place. -- Tim (writeme!) 13:29, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

I can't see any reason why we can't split them up into types after the initial price split. It would make it a lot more manageable.-- Tim (writeme!) 14:31, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

CotW unscheduled nominations are getting a bit thin![edit]

We could do with a few more suggestions for articles that could be future CotWs, so if you know of any please be sure to add them to the list! Thanks -- Tim (writeme!) 07:50, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

More Gori Additions[edit]

Hey, I've been slowly but surely adding info to the Gori page. When you get a chance, please look over what I have so far. Feedback appreciated. Thanks!Cuttino 07:36, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Georgian geography[edit]

Hi I don't want to screw up your grand job of sorting out our Georgia regions, so please can you link/move/delete/redirect Samegrelo-Zemo_Svaneti as is necessary? -- Tim (writeme!) 17:27, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Azerbaijan Map[edit]

Great map! One -probally nitpicky- thing, it is Sheki, not Shekhi because it is Şəki, not Şəkhi. Not really important though. Hope that you are doing well! Thanks again!Cupcakecommander 00:04, 7 June 2007 (EDT)

Brits and towns[edit]

Brits have a problem with the "Cities" header because someone (presumably of an ecclesiastical nature) once decreed that only a settlement with a cathedral was a "city". (Don't ask me how this is supposed to work in places where non-cathedral-building religions are prevalant.) Even to this day there's some bureaucratic nonsense involved for a city in the UK to be allowed to call itself a "city". - Todd VerBeek 09:01, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Le Mans map[edit]

Hello. Yep, I will upload the SVG map, but I am still working on it to also add a wide overview including the circuit. Give me on or two days. :) Tensaibuta 11:24, 9 June 2007 (EDT)



I did the change about Ardennes, you reverted recently. Even though there are not other articles about Ardennes than Champagne-Ardennes one, Ardennes refer primarily to the hill range tha is mostly in Belgium (see wikipedia article. Redirecting to the region seems quite odd to me. I guess it's more correct to do either an article of its own, either to write a disambiguation article such as the one I wrote. Redirecting from Ardennes to Champagne-Ardennes is simply not correct.Whistopathe80.200.239.160 12:45, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for your note, and sorry for my hasty revert! I see you are right that disambiguation would be useful in this case, since wikitravellers could be searching for either the Ardennes in France or Belgium. I'll try and set this straight now. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:48, 9 June 2007 (EDT)
No wrongdoing, but maybe check before reverting next time... 10:50, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
Actually, what would really help would be a short note explaining your edits. Admins are stretched pretty thin to keep up with the recent changes patrol and I usually wind up patrolling about 50 edits per 15 minutes—I'm bound to make a few mistaken reverts at that rate. --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:45, 10 June 2007 (EDT)



why the reversion of the highly useful notes on closed clubs and luxurious hotels in the Berlin-Mitte section? Also: the Nikolaiviertel is NOT a reconstructed historical quarter! It just looks a bit like one...

Kind regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs)

Hmm, I'm racking my brain to try and remember why I reverted this one. I'm afraid this was a simple goof on my part. I'll revert back to your previous version—sorry about that! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 14:51, 10 June 2007 (EDT)


So, somthing(nun-possesive) sexi is some type of workshop or factory in Azeri. The accent for Şəki changes the k to a ch (ç), so that is where you may be confused there. Thanks so much for changing it. If you ever find yourself up this way, please let me know! I'll be here for 15 more months. Cupcakecommander 01:17, 11 June 2007 (EDT)


Sweet map! Gorilla Jones 13:39, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! I've actually got grandiose plans to map the whole city, but I'll see how I feel after a few more districts ;) --Peter Talk 13:57, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Soviet Georgia[edit]

Mountaineering trip in the Caucasus about 20 years ago. We were climbing Mount Elbrus, but had to retreat owing to my wife getting pulmonary edema. We just barely strayed into Georgia as a result of the improvisation we worked to get her to lower altitude. See Altitude sickness -- pulmonary edema is a thing where, if you stay high, you die; if you descend, you live, it's that simple. So if somebody gets it, you go DOWN NOW and worry about the logistics later. Fascinating trip, anyway, medical emergency or no medical emergency. BTW, thanks for all the stuff you've done on the FSU. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 00:56, 15 June 2007 (EDT)


Would you tell me (and help me) about/with any problems regarding Wikitravel:Star nominations#Cincinnati. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:38, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Chicago map[edit]

Sorry I didn't notice this before - on the big map, there's an apostrophe in Rogers Park that shouldn't be there. (Not Roger's Park.) Gorilla Jones 19:35, 18 June 2007 (EDT)

South Side stars[edit]

As I recall, you said you're not in Chicago and won't be for a few months. Let me know if there's anything you can't do/get in your quest to make those articles stars. I'll see if I can help. Gorilla Jones 21:09, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

I had a whack at it. The Climax's number had been disconnected (alas), but the Kimbark's number was only temporarily disconnected, according to the recording, so I'll give that one another call later. I don't mind making some calls to Bronzeville. Gorilla Jones 16:50, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Sacred mountains[edit]

Hi Peter, thanks for your edit. However, all the sacred mountains in China have been given their own articles because they usually have (much) accommodation plus a multitude of other places of interest which cannot be covered on a regional article or city article. Please take a look at the mountain section listed under China#Other destinations. WindHorse 05:15, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

No problem. Actually, I was impressed by the speed of your edit. One second my redirect was there, and then the next it was in Hunan (Ha Ha). Actually, the sacred mountains in China are a much larger concern than their counterparts in Japan or Korea. The latter are usually only connected with one tradition, and so just house one, albeit sprawling, monastic complex, whereas the sacred mountains in China (especially Mount Emei and Mount Wutai) are covered with with a multitude of independent temples, hermitages and statues and it can take days to visit them all on foot. WindHorse 05:32, 29 June 2007 (EDT)


It's best to just ignore this guy - he's been appearing regularly for over a year in various forms. See Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy#Union (Maine) and Ocean Park. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:32, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Will do. --Peter Talk 19:44, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Coop's discount something or another[edit]

The reason the name wasn't showing up is because the name of the shop wasn't contained within quotation marks immediately following the name=. You can see what I did to fix it, but it's kind of hard to notice since I simply moved one mark. Here's the diff. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 06:16, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

It's always something simple like that, that my mind doesn't seem to process. Thanks! --Peter Talk 06:23, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago photos[edit]

That deep dish pizza photo is one heck of a find. My god, that thing is huge! Gorilla Jones 18:54, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Talk:Republic of Ireland#Usefulness of the Provinces[edit]

Peter, Copied from the above section -

<own horn toot>Oh wow! I forgot how nice my map was!</own horn toot> Is it safe to say that I should plunge forward with this, as no one has objected? --Peter Talk 03:52, 29 June 2007 (EDT)
Peter, this acutally looks good, IMHO! The map looks very good too :). Are these the Fáilte Ireland (official tourist agency) regions? That would probably be the best way to sort out the counties on a tourist website! I'd say, plunge forward --The.Q 08:21, 2 July 2007 (EDT)
As I look at your map again, I think you may need to show the location of some of the main towns also, to give the traveller a good idea as to what's where! --The.Q 08:28, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

I'd be interested to hear more from you on this. --The.Q 11:45, 3 July 2007 (EDT)

Peter, off the top of my head, I suppose you'd need to include at least one town/city for each region. Without having put too much thought into it, I'd suggest the following (by region):

Northwest Ireland, Sligo and Letterkenny
West Ireland, Galway and Athlone
Shannon Region, Limerick
Southwest Ireland, Cork
Southeast Ireland, Waterford
East Coast & Midlands, Dublin obviously, and also Kilkenny

These are a few thoughts, if I thought harder about it (which I will do!) I'd possibly change a few of them. I'll come back to this. --The.Q 08:20, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Well, I said I'd think about it, and I did! Each of the traditional counties in Ireland has one (or sometimes two) town(s) which is known as the county seat. This is usually the largest town in the county, frequently the administrative centre of the county also, although this is not absolute. For each of the regions, then, I have written below the county towns (and their respective counties), in what I would consider order of importance. I would then leave it up to your judgement as to which of them you could include on your map, taking into account how much space you have, Etc.
  1. Dublin, County Dublin
  2. Naas, County Kildare
  3. Athlone, County Westmeath (actually Mullingar is the county town for Westmeath, but Athlone is more tourist-centric)
  4. Wicklow, County Wicklow (Bray is actually bigger, but it is practically a suburb of Dublin)
  5. Longford, County Longford
  6. Navan, County Meath
  7. Tullamore, North County Offaly
  8. Portlaoise, County Laois
  9. Dundalk, County Louth

  1. Waterford, County Waterford
  2. Kilkenny, County Kilkenny
  3. Clonmel, County Tipperary (Co. Tipp. is historically divided into two, and the South Riding is in South East Ireland)
  4. Wexford, County Wexford
  5. Carlow, County Carlow
  1. Sligo, County Sligo
  2. Letterkenny, County Donegal (actually, the much smaller Lifford is the county town)
  3. Carrick-on-Shannon, County Leitrim
  4. Cavan, County Cavan
  5. Monaghan, County Monaghan
  1. Galway, County Galway
  2. Castlebar, County Mayo
  3. Roscommon, County Roscommon
  1. Limerick, County Limerick
  2. Ennis, County Clare
  3. Nenagh, County Tipperary (Co. Tipp. is historically divided into two, and the North Riding is in the Shannon Region)
  4. Birr, South County Offaly
  1. Cork, County Cork
  2. Tralee, County Kerry (although Killarney may be more appropriate for tourists)

Does this help, or make it more difficult??!! --The.Q 10:24, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Well Done![edit]

Peter, the maps look great. Well done!! At a quick first glance, the only error I can see is on the Image:Ireland road map.png the spelling of Monaghan is incorrect, you have it spelt with an e, i.e., Moneghan. Other than that, they're great. Having a quick look at the Ireland page, I can see that a lot of changes will need to be made if this page is to help travellers across the whole island, i.e., the infobox on the side needs to ahve the Union flag as well as the Irish flag, the capitals need to be Dublin and Belfast, the population needs to be increased, the two different currencies need to be mentioned, Etc., Etc., Etc. Other wise Northern Ireland could quickly end up gettign lost. I'll see what I can do about some of the changes, but I'm supposed to be working today (!) I'll also have a wee look at the Ireland regional pages, and let you know. Well done again. --The.Q 04:55, 12 July 2007 (EDT)


In my Jazz and Blues spiel, I put the HotHouse in the Near South, but I note that the listing has been placed in the Loop article. Which is correct? Gorilla Jones 14:36, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

That's not a strong area of expertise for me, so I'd defer to your judgment there. I've always thought of Chicago in terms of the CTA, not roads, so for me, the Loop ends where the Red Line comes out of the subway. But that's just me! Gorilla Jones 14:16, 8 July 2007 (EDT)
Coming back to this that I'm digging into the area, I'm finding a lot of references to "South Loop" as a distinct neighborhood (not just the southern part of the Loop). And there's a ton of new residential development there. So I'm inclined to shift the southern boundary of the Loop to Balbo. Does that sound all right to you? (Does it show signs of megalomania to so cavalierly re-draw entire sections of the city?) Gorilla Jones 23:33, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
Actually, let's push it all the way to Harrison - that way we can include Printer's Row more cleanly in the Chicago/Near South. When you're up and running with your faulty monitor, please update the map that one - I'm done adding listings and am gunning for a star once I can get my hands on a photo. Gorilla Jones 21:14, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

Since you're a Rus-ophile[edit] talk 15:19, 8 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago Skyline[edit]

Your skyline photo's are a great idea for visitors!! Wish I had that when I visited there!! Any photo's of Field Aquarium, my favorite Chicago stop? 2old 10:12, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

  • I see. I was thinking you were in Chicago. But, yes it would be very helpful to a vistor. I was thinking "inside of". ummm, looks like I have been thinking too much. 2old 16:20, 10 July 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter. Thanks for your work on the Irelend article. However, I personally don't think that a full consensus had yet been reached to change the title. Therefore, I have added the discussion from the Republic of Ireland Talk page for future reference. Also, there is a map of Ireland superimposed over the main text of the article. Where do you want this to be placed? Take it easy. WindHorse 21:55, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Please don't worry about that. I was not in anyway complaining (In fact, I'm happy to see you do all the work - Ha Ha). As you say, sometimes we just have to plunge forward. My only concern about the matter was that perhaps placing Northern Ireland under an umbrella title of Ireland might offend Unionist sentiments, and therefore be the source of an edit war. Therefore, I thought it better to add the whole discussion on the Talk page for future reference, and then if there is some dissent, contributors can pick up on the discussion without the need to repeat. Otherwise, using Ireland as the main title is very reasonable from a traveler's prospective - which should be the main criteria on WT. Anyway, hopefully people will realize that decision to use Ireland as the title was based on the traveler first policy and is not a political statement. Yes, it appears to be that the quickbar is forcing the regions map over the text. How can we clear it? WindHorse 22:24, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
Thanks for all your comments. You have read the discussion, so I am more than happy to leave the decision in your capable hands. I have never visited the North, so I don't know about border controls, but I think I had to show my passport in both Cork and least I remember carrying it...Anyway, as I said, please do as you feel appropriate, and if you need my help, let me know - though I can only offer it later in the day or tomorrow as I'm about to sign out. Take it easy, and sorry to give you a headache. WindHorse 22:31, 11 July 2007 (EDT)
The regional map of for US is not superimposed over the text, but it is smack in the middle of the article. The Ireland regional map is now lined up with the quick bar. It looks good, but there is a huge amount of white space between the opening intro sentences and 'Regions'. WindHorse 22:40, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

Pictures by Flowergirl[edit]

Peter, thanks for the nice comments on my pictures. the uploading of pictures seems to be odd. I do u/l them, but have to do it twice, in order to get the image link in proper format style..

Is there another way to u/l them?

And do you have a quick search bar, to get to flikr.

Also, I will check out the other place you mentioned, to d/l the pictures to. I will read up on it, tomorrow.;)

Images are my specialty, and so pleased that you appreciated my efforts.:

Flowergirl 00:03, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Peter, I need a bit of guidance here I believe. First of all, let me tell you that I had gotten the pictures, from Flickr. I am not sure that this is the source that you prefer I use.If not, then please briefly explain what source you want me to use. And, do I have to join that source?. with a different user name and password?
As for the problem that I encountered. I searched for and found the picture that I needed for the article. I saved the picture, and copied the link. I then went to Upload file. I attributed it, and then hit download. Well the picture was downloaded, but the [source.jpg|thumb|description} etc. that I needed to copy and paste into the site page, did not come up. I had to go through the same process as before, and this time it tells me that the picture was already d/l and shows me the link. I click on the d/l again link, and this time the correct [source.jpg|thumb|description} comes up and I can add this to the article page. I have no idea why it does not show the first time, and yet does the second time.
Now. tell me, if you do not want me to use this method, eg. flickr?
I will wait until your reply, to add more pictures.
Also, I am going to attempt to edit the Florida sites, since I come from Florida. Is there a procedure to go through to do this, or do I just do it. I am waiting to understand a bit more about the templates used in articles, so while I get my feet wet in that direction, I will add pictures.;) --Flowergirl 10:44, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
Peter, I just read your message to me. Ok, I understand, that instead of uploading pictures directily on the site itself, I go to Wikitravel Shared and u/l them there. Is this a twin of the master site itself?
Does wikiTravel have a direct method of passage to flickr from this site? so as to search for pictures?
Another question, I noticed that within articles, exernal links are numbered. I have always created a word for the xternal, it looks so much more complete.
ex. The story {1} will show when you find the book {2}
I had corrected a few, but stopped, until I receive approval from you. I find that
ex. The story {book} will show when you find the book {store}
In other words, to use words instead of the numbers. I did one or two so if you check my edits, you will see how much nicer the sentences look....However, if this is not used on this wiki, please advise...I want to fix, not mess up.) --Flowergirl 10:52, 12 July 2007 (EDT)
I have d/l through wikitravel shared, but I still have to repeat the u/l inorder to get the link for the pictures....description —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Flowergirl (talkcontribs)

More Chicago material[edit]

I'm done-ish with the Near North. I need to take some photos, re-write some things (and expand Navy Pier), maybe mention Marina City, and format the hotels, but I don't foresee adding many new listings, unless I happen to stumble across something. I'm satisfied with the range of options for eat and sleep. I need to figure out which of Chicago's theaters are in that area, and I wonder if some/all of the individual River North art dealers should be listed under Buy - if so, I'd have to list them all, since I don't know one from another.) Give it a couple of days, and then map-away.

I'll take a whack at the Understand for the skyline article. I don't think you need a lot there - the pictures speak for themselves ("Really Tall Buildings"). Gorilla Jones 00:24, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! The skyline guide is a terrific idea, the kind that really sets Wikitravel apart from other kinds of travel guides, and I love how you don't set anything out there until it's ready to be useful for a traveler. (There are so many woefully underfed topics around - Architecture, for example.) I'm here for the fun of collaboration, so it's a treat to add to something that's already so well-founded. Gorilla Jones 21:01, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Mandarmani spam/vandalism[edit]

We are extremly shocked that details (Phone,webpage linketc.) is being edited from Article of MANDARMONI each & every time. Could you tell me how & why? we r the best in mandarmoni. Regards The sana Beach —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs)

With pleasure. Your initial edits violated our Wikitravel:Don't tout policy, our Wikitravel:Manual of style, and the rules of English grammar. Moreover, I will add that even this message you have left me manages to violate these three policies. Frankly, because the Mandarmani article is plagued with daily spam/vandalism/touting, I am inclined to revert any edits that are the least bit suspect, but yours were straightforwardly unwelcome. The fact that you childishly vandalized the page for two hours after not getting your way makes me all the more inclined to revert on sight any changes that you may make in the future. --Peter Talk 12:28, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago skyline guide[edit]

Very good work! I will be taking it with me next time. 2old 13:51, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for Beijing edits[edit]

You fixed a hotel entry on Beijing -- thanks, it's much better now. --Julian Suddaby 22:38, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

With pleasure ;) --Peter Talk 22:45, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

external links[edit]

thanks for the encouragement. i went back and checked all the links i added to ensure that they were referencing official sites. since i've only been adding bars and outside town tourist destinations it was fairly easy to ensure that these were not merely promotional outside links. perhaps i shouldn't add any external links at all? Euanthes 05:30, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Far Southwest Side[edit]

Only 18,000 characters in one edit? You're slowing down. (Producing a virtually star-quality travel guide for the Far Southwest Side may rank as your most remarkable achievement yet.) As before, let me know if there's any legwork I can do from here. I've been meaning to call the Far Southeast hotels for price and basic descriptions. I'm swamped with work at the moment, but I'm going to try to get a selection of Near North art dealers into that article, so hold off a couple more days on updating the map. Gorilla Jones 11:12, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

No worries about the Near North map update. I figured it needed to percolate a while before going up for a star. (And nobody seems to check the nominations page any more, unfortunately.) What do you think about moving Avondale to the Chicago/Far Northwest Side? I traveled through there this weekend and it's a pretty seamless transition from Avondale to Portage Park with the Polish influence and residential character, whereas I saw less fit with Avondale and the other three Chicago/North Side areas. Gorilla Jones 00:12, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
I missed the non-contiguousness somehow. (It's late.) Yes, that sounds like a good solution. As I expand the Chicago/Far Northwest Side article, I'm finding the O'Hare presence increasingly obtrusive. As it keeps growing, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion as to whether O'Hare should a) stay there, it's fine b) move lock-stock back to the main article (too much content of its own now, I'd assume) c) get its own article (as a few airports do). Gorilla Jones 03:50, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
Well...I don't know. We could split Lakeview and Lincoln Park right now and have both articles usable pretty quickly, if you want. North Center keeps getting swallowed up into this fictional construct called "West Lakeview" by real estate agencies that push the borders of Lakeview further and further west each year. You could anchor a North Center article around trendy bars and restaurants in Roscoe Village, but I'd be inclined to leave it connected to Lakeview until/unless a surplus develops. Old Town is about as distinct from Lincoln Park as North Center is from Lakeview. Would Chicago/Lincoln Park-Old Town and Chicago/Lakeview-North Center work, along the lines of Bridgeport-Chinatown?
As for Avondale, I don't know. I've really only been through there once. Considering there's such a big Polish population there, if someone wanted to make a good article of it, they probably could, but it'd take some time and legwork. I know I won't get to it any time soon, but it'd be easier to do some passing justice to it in the Far Northwest, since the Polish influence keeps going northwest from there into Irving Park, Portage Park, and the rest. (Whereas it definitely doesn't go east into Lakeview or Lincoln Park). Gorilla Jones 00:11, 23 July 2007 (EDT)
Oh, same for me - with this whole project, I'm learning how much I don't know as much as I'm managing to record what I do know. (And I suspect I'd have an even harder time trying to sort out the South Side districts than you would be for the North.) But it's good - I've been away for most of the last four years, so this is a nice way to get re-acquainted with the city. I'll do those North Side splits some time soon. Gorilla Jones 02:26, 23 July 2007 (EDT)
I see the Mandarmani guy is back! You'll sleep well tonight. Gorilla Jones 02:28, 23 July 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter I had a look through the Northland area and realised that you americanos have not much of a clue about our area. I did a few corrections and explanations on Northland The Hokianga is also very hard to tame into cyberspace. It has no cities and often little clusters of houses. For instance the Wairere Valley B&B is not in Horeke (it is in Wairere, just a cluster of about 5 houses) and so is the Mangungu Mission House it is in Ivydale. The templets of Wikitravel do not really suit our circumstances and the system should be a bit more flexible as it is at the moment. What shall I do with the Tui Cottage and the Wairere Valley B&B??

You can also e-mail me on felix at

Cheers Felix —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tramp (talkcontribs)

Hi Peter, thanks for your help so far. I would like to know how to set up the navigation on top of a page. Some of it is wrong, see Hokianga . The Far North is missing between Northland and Hokianga I am working all over the Northland area to set the basics The structure of Northland is as follows

How can I create the navigation on the differnt files (on top of the page) for these places.

Otherwise I think I can manage. I just try to lay down the structure for Northland and than start working on the Far North and Hokianga. That will give me plenty to do beside runnning a farm and a tourism operation.

Where will I get my answer? Is it in my talk? I am pretty new in this game, so if you do not hear from me again please send an e-mail to mailto:[email protected]

Thanks for your help, Felix

Dear Peter, thanks for your help on Navigation. It worked.

I think the bosses of Wikitravel have to do some serious thinking on what goes where. I tried to read up the policies, but there is so much to take in. I have concerns about listings. For instance the Sand Dunes They are a part of Opononi which is part of the Far North which is part of Northland being part of the North Island.

I have listed them in all places, but such procedures will clog up the system. Where should attractions be listed? New Zealand has policies in creating "Highlights" which can be listed in more places than ordinary places. For instance the "Wairere Boulders" are one of the Highlights due to its worldwide importance. If everyone in Northland would list on the North Island page we would get a congestion.

The same with photos! How many times shall the same photo come up. See Horeke Far North Northland North Island. I think it needs a policy or supervisor there as well. Also how many pictures from the same place can be displaied. I coud put in 20 different pics of the Wairere Boulders and if everyone would do that....

Total Chaos[edit]

Who makes these policies? I could not find any hints, other than to be reasonable.

Maybe you can help,




Hi Peter, thanks for all the info. I will try to I had a look at the New Zealand page. You asked me to reduce the number of cities to 9

(New Zealand right now has too many—could you help trim the cities and other destinations to 9?). This is very difficut And I would suggest to have 9 per Island. To your guidelines to edit details for cities. I had a look at the Bay of Islands page. Someone has put in the description of all the towns instead of opening new pages. It needs correction but I am on 28.8 kbps.... if I am lucky. It happened here

Also I am sorry for my spelling or syntax. My mother tounge is German but luckily Wind Horse is "spying" on me to get it right.

We will ge it right in time, thank you for your help.

Cheers Felix

Lost Site Far North[edit]

Hi Peter

I was editing Far North but the page disapeared. Are there any backups, so it can be reloaded. There was a lot of data on it.



Real Cities in NZ[edit]


I had a serious discussion with Rita (my wife) about cities in NZ. There are only 3 big cities in NZ. Akl, Wgt, ChCH (Christchurch) 50% of the NZ population lives in these cities. All other places are much smaller. I think it is better if you remove all other cities from the New Zealand page. I do not want to get "lynched" for such an action. All other cities are listed in North Island and South Island which would make sense to me. And just by the way.... I think the Amber House should not be on that page. It should be moved to Nelson.

Hope you had a good time in Baltimore.

I resolved the problem with the Far North page. It came up at my neighbours place, so I cleared my cache and... bingo. Unfortunately I have to reload my cache again which is a darg with 28.8 kbps



Featuring attractions/images[edit]

Dear Peter

a remark to the following principle outlined by you.

When deciding what to list (or what to show in photographs) on a given region, common practice is to choose the most prominent (i.e., most visited) attractions/destinations and to try to represent different regions equally.

This is not always appropriate. The Koutu Boulders have never been marketed and are the biggest concretions. The FNDC (council has built parking for tourists so they can be visited. It's new, but fantastic.

The Wairere Boulders are now open about 3 to 4 years and already attracting around 7'000 visitors a year already. It is also new and stunning and just on the verge of getting in into all major tourism guides.

Waitangi an ancient tourism site attracts about 100'000 visitors a year and is one of the better known places.

I personally think that Waitangi is not half as interesting as the two new places. So shall Wikitravel just become another boring edition of AA, Jason or Lonely Planet? Or shall Wikitravel be a site with fresh ideas and include a lot of interesting sites.

I hope that the public will put in all these fantastic and little known places to open up the world to its full potential.

What do you think?


OtBP, content organization, itineraries, and external links[edit]

Kia Ora Peter

I agree to remove Gisborne.

Yes I will defend my reasoning when it comes to special places. There are such interesting places in NZ, yet unknown to travelers. We send a lot of people to Omahuta Kauri Sanctuary (one of my next entries) and they all come back and say... why did nobody tell us. The same with the Koutu Boulders. Everyone knows Moeraki, but Koutu is far more spectacular unmatched world wide, yet only a few start to know. The same with the Sculptures on the sand dunes. They are only matched by the Frasier Islands one. And yet very few seem to know. But Hokianga is changing it with its advertisement strategy.

I am not able to do an article about NZ's geological attractions. I do not know them and secondly I am a civil engineer and have studied mainly Swiss geology. I know NZ is full of these fantastic places and I will go and visit them soon. Maybe I should spend less time on Wikitravel and do more real travel. But we often go back to Switzerland to meet family and friends.



Hi Peter,

I will look into the itinerary story, did not know you have a templet (silly me).

I am the author of the Hokianga map, but if you can generate something better by satellite, please do so. As I said, I am on 28.8 kbps, it is as fast as a slug on sand. in a storm. Are you on satellite? If yes, how fast is it? We could get satellite, which is not much faster (70 kbps) and costs a fortune.

I have also realised that someone has linked to a terrilble website in the Bay of Islands and Paihia. Have look at it

  • Find a complete list of all Bay of Islands activities.
  • Paihia Accommodation [2] Full listing of all accommodation in Paihia, backpackers, motels, hotels, campsites, apartments...

He has translated his website with Google and put it on in different languages. As I know German and French too, I can say it is absolutely useless. What does Wikitravel do in such cases?


Asheville map[edit]

Hi Peter, as far as maps go, that is the one thing i'm not very experienced with making here on wiki and your help would be appreciated. OnHaywood does a good job with Haywood street which most people consider 'West Asheville', and its boundaries. For Downtown, RomanticAsheville's map is good but a bit short with the boundaries (I would include 240 and a bit of Merrimon to the top), AshevilleNow's is pretty good with the top two-thirds, the bottom third below Hilliard (where the Orange Peel is at, a big draw of visitors) could be left out.. Ooo with more searching I found ExploreAsheville's downtown map to be very good with the boundaries I just described. Hilliard to the south, Charlotte St to the east, 240/bit of Merrimon the the north (also includes the confusing Broadway split), French Broad the the west (and they nicely include a bit to show where Montford is). AVLann 11:37, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

    • I've gone back and rearranged. what do you think now? AVLann 21:25, 15 August 2007 (EDT)


Sorry, for whatever reason it seems like I keep coming up on the opposite side of an argument from you - it's not intentional, I swear! In this case, User:L'Aquatique/Sandpoint,ID was deleted with the comment "page creation vandalism", but as far as I've seen User:L'Aquatique is a legitimate contributor and has added some well-thought out comments on Talk:Pacific Northwest (United States of America). In addition, the page is in a user namespace, and I think we typically leave city outlines alone since users sometimes use their user space as a sandbox. Was there some other problem that led to the page being speedy deleted? -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:55, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Also, just to make sure I wasn't the cause since I've deleted several articles with the comment "page creation trolling", see the discussion on Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy#Page creation vandalism for background. There's a kid in Portland, Maine who for the past two years has showed up and created empty articles, often without even an outline, for tiny places that usually don't meet the "what is an article" criteria. Occasionally he'll then start spamming talk pages with requests for people to "help his articles". The pattern is fairly easy to pick out, and once it's clear that it's him either myself, Todd, Colin, or sometimes another admin will just delete what he's added. In this case the Idaho contributor appears to be a different person. See User talk:Don217 for a list of some of his recent accounts. -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:00, 24 July 2007 (EDT)
...never mind, I see you've restored the article in question. Thanks! -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:01, 24 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago/Near North#Buy[edit]

The horror...the horror...


Russian Wikitravel is now unlocked and ready for business. Please sign up for an account there, and let me know what your account name is so I can make you an admin there. Also, see the tasks on shared:Talk:Russian Wikitravel Expedition. This is really exciting -- thanks for taking the first steps with this new language version! --Evan 21:32, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

Near South[edit]

Congratulations on the Russian Wikitravel - wish I'd picked up more Russian while traveling there so I could help out.

I'm hoping you know more than I do - what else is there in the Near South? A few things need to be rewritten, but in terms of listings, I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge. Gorilla Jones 22:51, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

St Barthelemy[edit]

Dear Peter

I have been adding information to the St Barthelemy page (recently registered as Babath) and have remarked that links to accommodation providors have been removed, as such the accomodation section is now blank.

I can tell you that there is no official or not for profit tourism organisations on the island that will contribute, as such this page will have to rely on business owners to grow.

If this is in violation of Wikitravel rules, I'm afraid the page will die.

Best regards


Deletion of Pictures[edit]

I need assistance please. I received a message from someone, who said he removed many of my pictures i added to South Florida, and that they were a copyvio.....I took it from flickr and could not have been a copyvio picture...I want to see what he removed and placed to delete.

Can you assist me please.

Flowergirl 18:16, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

.....Do you still want me to replace those two pictures skyline.jpg and the other one? They will come out as duplicates..;).... Also is it possible to change my user name, and still retain the contribution credits that I earned?

Flowergirl 08:10, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

Based on work by Wikitravel user(s) . . . ..[edit]

Hi Peter. Thanks for the welcome.

I've now contributed the page on Obihiro that I have been working on. To my surprise this has been credited (at the bottom of the page) to another user (Based on work by Wikitravel user(s) WindHorse). I wrote to WindHorse about this yesterday but so far received no reply. Can you tell me what I should do in this situation? Thanks. -- Kleinzach 20:59, 1 August 2007 (EDT)


Since I am new to wikitravel, but not new to wiki's in general, I have some questions to ask, and even though I have searched, I cannot find the answer.

Is is possible to use email for learning more, or gmail chat if possible. Somehow I find it difficult to find my way around here, but I do enjoy the site itself, and the few people who have communicated with me for corrections and praise...I enjoy both...

Where can I find an email address to write and learn more. I had also joined in a forum or posting offering my suggestion, but never heard back. And I cannot even find my way back to that posting.;)...It was about not using the numbers, and instead using words or links. I offered my thoughts on it, but somehow I get the feeling that since I am new, I might be ignored..Unless that was only for Admins.

Thank you for a response.

Flowergirl 21:45, 3 August 2007 (EDT)


I enjoy adding pictures and enjoy finding great pictures to use. I just wanted to add a picture to uganda, as the message said, they need pictures badly....However I find maps. Can the maps be removed in lieu of pictures?

while I am not much of a traveler, I am a great editor,writer, and picture adder.;)..

but I have to know what is permitted and what is not. And also where I can be of the most help.

I had been writing Florida, and been filling up the site page with a little helper.;)..I enjoyed that, as it was like a puzzle, fitting the pieces together.

1. where do I find what needs to be done. 2. Where do I find those little tags, that tell a bit about where I come from etc. 3. Any other information that I might need, to really get my feet wet in seems like a very nice site to check in on ....OH, I live in florida, so that is why I started there.

4. Still learning what the formats are for the different areas. While wiki's are all the same editing wise, the formats from each are different.

Thanks Flowergirl 23:31, 3 August 2007 (EDT)


checking out the Cities in florida and noticed a list, almost a 1/2 page long of 'eating' ads. should this amount be allowed?. One of them is an obvious self advertisment from 4 Seasons, where the ad uses the word 'us', referring to themselves. Would I be allowed to remove all such lists, and leave just a few, on all sites? Flowergirl 07:58, 4 August 2007 (EDT)


Congratulations on Star-ifying Chicago/Bronzeville. We've gone through the process, there was zero dissent (unusual for recent Star nominations, incidentally), and time is up, so I just applied the coveted label. Great work by you and Marc. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:48, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Near North and South maps[edit]

I've covered the Near South as thoroughly as I can; I only found a very small handful of other listings, none of which seemed to warrant inclusion. I might take a walk down there next weekend to see if I'm missing anything. And I'm willing to call a cease-fire on new Near North listings whenever you say so; I work down there, so every once in a while I notice or hear about something new, but I think it's covered pretty thoroughly as is - it's probably on the verge of overload. So go ahead and map the Near North - if you want to hold off on the Near South, that's fine. It can't go up for star until it has some photos, anyway. (And the Loop isn't close to ready.) How is the Southwest coming? Gorilla Jones 22:31, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

OK. I've got just a couple more listings for the Near South and I'll start putting them in now. (Like an old tube of toothpaste, there's always a little more to be found if you roll it up tightly enough.) The West Side badly needs to be split, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't leave the Far West off on its own as a permanent outline (at least until you start pounding the pavement there). I'd like to split the Far North, too, but I'd prefer to gather some more listings first, and wait until the article starts to feel unwieldy - we'll never get the whole city to a star if we keep splitting guides into usables. Gorilla Jones 22:17, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
Done with new listings in the Near South. Gorilla Jones 22:54, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
The listing for Grant Park should definitely go in the Loop. I don't think there's any sense in trying to figure out what parts are in the Loop and what parts are in the Near South. If I haven't already, I'll include mentions in both articles of how big it is and how it basically stretches up to the Museum Campus. Gorilla Jones 23:13, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
Sweet! Descriptive photos and a shiny map, too. Take a pass at the text, if you like. I plan to do a do a quick rewrite tonight myself and then put it up for nomination. (No new listings, though, cross my heart...) Gorilla Jones 17:06, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Sheki Map[edit]

Peter, I just e-mailed the Norwegian embassy today and I will let you know if they can fulfill the request.Cupcakecommander 03:12, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

Peter, here is the letter from the Norwegian embassy's charge d'affairs,

Dear Josh

It is a pleasure to inform you that you are welcome to use this map for the Wilkitravel web page. We would expect you to provide a citation for the source of the map. Otherwise, we wish you good luck in your work!

Richard Scarborough Chargé d'Affaires a.i. Royal Norwegian Embassy in Baku

I think that this is enough to create our own version, right? Thanks! Cupcakecommander 01:56, 13 August 2007 (EDT)


My name is Joshua Noonan and I am a US Peace Corps Volunteer in Sheki, Azerbaijan working at CHF International. I am currently active in writing the Sheki travel guide for Wikitravel and I would like to have explicit permission to use the map that is in the Norwegian sponsored Sheki Girdman guide on to use as a base image for a derivative work that would be freely usable by anyone for this site I have sent the scanned copy in this e-mail. With your help, we will be able to make the on-line guide for Sheki of the best quality. We are currently using per the Embassy's permission a scanned copy of the map, but we would like to create a Wikitravel version. Thanks so much for your help!

-- Josh Noonan Cupcakecommander 02:15, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Could I just e-mail it to you? It would be easeir to send a high resolution image that way. Cupcakecommander 02:22, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
The image has been uploaded as Sheki Map.jpg. Tell me if you have any problems! Cupcakecommander 03:31, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
How goes the Sheki map design? I'm looking forward to it!! Cupcakecommander 08:29, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Peter, the file -Image:Copy of Sheki Map.jpg- has been uploaded with four black dots indicating tea houses. They don't have names though. Let me know if I can be of any more help! Cupcakecommander 06:39, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
Peter, I think that the easiest way to do this is the following. Street in Azeri is küçə. To make a compound word add -si to it so for Peace Street it would be Sülh Küçəsi. Other things to note when translating; sh=ş ch=ç kh=x gh-ğ. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Otherwise good luck (uğurlar) and I look forward to being in contact with you. Cupcakecommander 02:51, 5 November 2007 (EST)
Peter, the file name is Sheki map1.png. Kudos on the map!! It's wonderful! Which program did you use to create the file? The following notes should be observed with the file..

S6-This is the same as Sleep 1 B-1-I have never been to this place. I have asked people around Sheki about it, but I have not been able to find it. E-6, off the map on the road to Kish S-2 off the map North of Kish on the road to Gelersen Goresen H-5, to stay at the B&B people need to call the director, as there are many houses, and then he will meet them in the center of town and take them to the selected house. S1 and X2 are at about the same location. Thanks for all of your efforts!Cupcakecommander 07:04, 5 November 2007 (EST)

Peter, H2 is between the village of Kish and Gelersen Goresen tower. Cupcakecommander 02:32, 6 November 2007 (EST)
Peter,I think that it looks good. Take care and kudos on the good work!Cupcakecommander 04:19, 12 November 2007 (EST)


I look at that page once and a while. Very good work! Forgive me please for being nosey, but what is your interest in those type of buildings? [3]? 2old 13:06, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

Gourmand cafe[edit]

You did that to yourself.

Any interest in grabbing this CTA map from [Wikimedia Commons]? It's licensed under CC 2.5. Or do you reckon you could do a nicer one? Gorilla Jones 20:09, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

West Side[edit]

I think I would actually find it easier to bring the West Side articles up to par if they were split. Although further divisions may occur in the future, would it be geographically ridiculous to divide it in two? My first idea is

  • West Town (Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Bucktown) + Logan Square
  • Near West Side (Little Italy, Greektown, the West Loop, University of Illinois at Chicago, United Center, Maxwell Street) + Far West Side

I'm not sure which side gets Pilsen under that scenario. Gorilla Jones 20:51, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

OK. I'll go with the separate-out scenario and see where that takes me. Your input will be valuable on the Lower West Side article! Gorilla Jones 00:39, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
Reckon I'm done with the Near South. Added one new listing - Marshall Field Jr's Mansion. Last time I was there, plans were underway to tear it down, but I stumbled across a page listing it as a new residential property, so I couldn't resist throwing that lurid tale in there. Sorry for sending you back to the map one more time. Gorilla Jones 02:38, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
Oh, if you've never been, make tracks when you're back in town. The Division Street baths are awesome. (I could have happily rambled about them for several lines more, but risked incurring the wrath of our friend on-the-Hill.) I think it's BYOB, and the small food-stand only serves fast food, but I could be wrong. Guys definitely make a good, long day of it, though. Gorilla Jones 11:47, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Thank you for your welcome message[edit]

Hi Peter,

I'm not from Utah, I was there for a month some years ago. I'm very excited by the WikiTravel project. My mother language is french, but I have decided to contribute to the english version. The world is now a village and we can share more information if we all write the same language. My wife and me have been in various countries those last years. I intend to spend the next weeks giving some information about travelling in Queensland, New South Wales, Taiwan, Canada and European countries.



Peter, I noticed your name at the bottom of the Zheleznogorsk/Krasnoyarsk-26 page. I'm curious to where the information on that page came from, and if there is anything else you know about it. I'm generally very interested in these closed cities (am Russian myself). Perhaps a stupid question, but could a person somehow enter this city just as a 'tourist', just to look around?


Hey I'm glad you enjoyed the article! The bulk of the travel-relevant information came from the US Government Nuclear Cities Initiative. I'm also quite interested in the closed cities, but unfortunately, the cities are fully closed to everyone, both Russian and foreign, unless you have a government authorized invitation from an agency in the town. So basically, можно только на командировку ;) It's a shame, Zheleznogorsk seems like a particularly interesting closed city. There are some formerly closed cities, however, that have recently been opened. I had fun in Krondshtadt recently; the people living there were very surprised to talk to a Westerner! --Peter Talk 22:23, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the reply! Звучит очень интиресно, Кронштадт - в Ленинградской Области? I lived in St Petersburg for 7 years when I was younger, but never heard a lot about Kronshtadt (first time I hear it was ever closed actually). Definatley another place to visit when I go back there :)

Actually, now that you mention it, I think Kronshtadt may have been closed only to foreigners. In any rate it is a nice half-day trip from St Petersburg to see the Морской собор and to look at the warships off the pier. --Peter Talk 13:22, 13 August 2007 (EDT)

Lincoln Square[edit]

Wondering if you think it's bad practice that I slipped Albany Park & North Park into the Lincoln Square article but retained the Lincoln Square name for the whole thing. I couldn't think of a decent name to cover the three ("Northwest Side" might beg the question of why West Ridge was being excluded, but that should be grouped with Rogers Park). They make a nice bunch, being the back end of the Brown Line and connected by Lincoln Avenue, but LS has way more attractions than the other two (which many north siders haven't even heard of). I think Chicago/Lincoln Square-Albany Park would be an ugly file name so I wanted to avoid it. Whaddya think? Either way, I should have it ready for mapping in a day or two. Gorilla Jones 23:52, 12 August 2007 (EDT)

It's always possible that more listings will emerge, but the Chicago/Lincoln Square article is ready for mapping. It covers a lot of ground with listings concentrated into a few, small spaces, so you might try a more sectional approach. (Or not. You're much better at this than me.) Gorilla Jones 18:36, 14 August 2007 (EDT)
Yup, that works. I renamed the article, by the way, inspired by your South Chicago Shore initiative, because the other two neighborhoods had become too important to the article to leave behind. Since Lincoln Avenue is a (or the) central thoroughfare for all three, and since they're the northernmost areas of it, voila... Chicago/North Lincoln is born. Gorilla Jones 17:00, 22 August 2007 (EDT)
That portion is simply Lincoln Square. Gorilla Jones 20:57, 23 August 2007 (EDT)
Great North Lincoln maps! After all that work to gather the listings, it's such a pleasure to see them together on a map. For orientation purposes, would it be possible to indicate Giddings Plaza on the map? Gorilla Jones 15:21, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

Charlotte Map[edit]

Sorry about taking so long to get back to you on this subject. Summertime is hectic and I honestly hadn't checked my talk page in a couple of weeks. Regarding a district map: The best online map I have found is here: The only downside is that it's limited to the central neighborhoods, but that's not too much of a problem since the outer districts can generally be done by zip code. Another complication is that in Charlotte, infill areas are rather large and uninteresting to visitors. I don't know how that works on a district map, but I will say that the majority of the neighborhoods on the map I linked to, are not going to be worth labeling.

The areas with Wikipedia district articles are linked to the following numbers on the map:

South End - 15, 14, 72 Dilworth - 66 Myers Park - 63, 65 Elizabeth - 54 Plaza-Midwood - 50 Uptown - Use this map: SouthPark - General area around Sharon & Fairview Rd. University City - ZIP code 28262 Ballantyne - ZIP code 28277

I'll come back and update this entry if I can find anything else that would help. bruinsbuddy42 11:51 18 August 2007

New page[edit]

I want to be able to create a new region, or forest. I have just tried in Florida, to create a new Forest. However How do I get this information beneath the Title itself. Tallahassee From Wikitravel North America : United States of America : Florida : Florida Panhandle : Middle Florida : TallahasseeFlowergirl 10:24, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

Southwest confusion[edit]

You should consider putting something in the Southwest article. Whether it's an insta-guide or not is up to you, and it can always be changed/re-arranged later, but you have a ton of quality listings in there, and it's more likely to attract contributions from new users there than it is in your sandbox. (While you were away on vacation, I thought about moving it myself in order to encourage the anon user who added a couple of listings of his own accord.) Gorilla Jones 00:02, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Beautiful. Gorilla Jones 01:27, 27 August 2007 (EDT)
 ;) --Peter Talk 01:30, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Sheki Weekend Itinerary[edit]

I just finished the Sheki Weekend Itinerary. Please let me know what you think. I will start working on the week itinerary probably this week. Cupcakecommander 06:11, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Let's see.. The entries on the map that are missing in the guide are either non-existent, like the movie theater (it was demolished a couple of years ago), non-functional, like all but one of the bath houses, or unaccessible, like the "Albanian Church" in the middle of town (it is a warehouse for school number 5). Tea houses.. They really don't have names usually, are quite nondescript, and there are so many; it is hard to walk 5 minutes without seeing one. The best one is a bit expensive, but I made a note of it in the itinerary- near the palace of the Sheki Khans. I will try to format the itinerary a bit better, and stick some pictures in it. Cupcakecommander 01:41, 28 August 2007 (EDT)
The Albanian church is inside the school grounds and it serves as a warehouse. Like 3 of the 4 bathhouses do not function. The one that does is quite dirty (I've been there once). I will make the markings for the tea houses, although it doesn't seem necessary as there is a plethora of them.

Bulgaria Spanish version[edit]


thank you very much for your encouragement! The idea to work on Bulgaria came to me after just getting back from a two-week holiday in that country. I have plenty of notes, but, of course, I have noticed that there is already an excellent version in English. I hope to be able to add some more stuff to the cities and regions (and probably complement the English with some new info). I might even add some small tit-bits to the English, and then expand the Spanish. In any case, I am unfamiliar with the copyright issues. Am I to attribute explicitly the English contributors? How is that done? Any other suggestions? All the best, --DavidSaldanaSage 09:37, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Well, I've thought of this. See de:Vorlage:Attributieren. The only problem with the template is that someone can delete an editor's name. Oh well, it's better than nothing. -- 10:32, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
If you want to use User:Sapphire/Template:Attribution on ru: I'll waive the attribution requirement for you. If you use the version on de: you'll need to attribute two people. Not that it really matters... -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:20, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Thank you for the template. I have introduced a very minor change, just "está" for "es" (you know, the annoying Spanish thing with the to be-ser-estar ;-). By the way, I am a little lost with this talk function, so please excuse me if I should be answering on my page instead of here.
--DavidSaldanaSage 12:32, 30 August 2007 (EDT)


Given the amount of play we give them, the Chicago page ought to have a Harold's Chicken Shack infobox. (You know Lonely Planet doesn't have one.) If I'd ever been there (and wasn't a vegetarian), I'd write it. This, this and this ought to help. Gorilla Jones 13:32, 3 September 2007 (EDT)



I'm awarding this barnstar to yourself and another User:Gorilla Jones for having made our previously hopeless Chicago guide into a world-class guide befitting a world class city. Thank you! You rock. -- Mark 14:57, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! I'm not sure I would have called it hopeless, but it is a lot more in-depth now, a lot more in-depth than any printed guides even. Expect to see ever more! --Peter Talk 01:22, 11 September 2007 (EDT)


You fellows are making me jealous. So, I thought I would start cleaning up Cleveland. Would you answer 2 questions? #1. When you look at "Sleep", the listings have numbers like [89], [90] and so on, but there is no link, only the number. #2 There are a number of phone number types, is 1+ 999-666-7777 correct. And. #3. Is front linking incorrect and or bold type used in excess? I know that's 3 not 2. 2old 14:37, 5 September 2007 (EDT)


I love the shaded neighborhood maps! Just noticed the one you did for North Lincoln. Really pretty, and handy, too. The crime map is way cool, too, and had a couple of surprises even for this city resident. It'll be really handy for Stay Safe sections.

Had an idea - tell me if it makes sense, or if it devalues the main Chicago page. Would the district articles benefit from a version of the city map that has their chunk separated and/or highlighted (or the rest of the city darkened/greyed)? That would be a quick reference for showing where the district is in relation to others. Could be done with the crime map, too. But it might be excessive and redundant with the main page.

The Chicago/West Side article needs a map strategy. I will make another pass - there may be bars I've missed - but I'm pretty well content with the Greektown/Little Italy restaurant listings. Certain other sections, though, like Pilsen and the Far West, have only one or two listings. (And Maxwell Street is non-existent.) See if you think Greektown/Little Italy could be mapped separately - those are obviously important for tourists, and could then let the itinerary get a star-nom. Gorilla Jones 11:45, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

Then you might consider making a map for the Near West as if it already had its own district article, since those listings are basically complete. (I'm aiming to visit the market next week for some photos, so I may notice something else, but not likely much. Might add something about the site of the Haymarket explosion, and I need to decide if the other television studios near Oprah's are worth mention here.) It'll get separated out eventually. I don't think Pilsen fits with the Far West, which is a great unknown to me, too. (Surprised there are so many libraries there.) Pilsen (and the Heart of Chicago stuff) could carry the bulk of an article, although probably not by itself, unless perhaps written by an especially knowledgeable resident. Could anything from the Southwest get chopped off to fit with it?
And if your Southwest Side article is ready, put it up there for people to use - ping-ponging the main article designation every time we split a district would be excessively scrupulous, unless the resulting articles were then abandoned for months. Which won't happen. In any event, getting quality work out there is more important. Gorilla Jones 00:45, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
Alternatively, you might also map Lakeview-North Center and/or Lincoln Park-Old Town. Both have more listings to come (buy/eat/drink), but the sights are in place, and neither district is going to get split further any time soon. Gorilla Jones 00:50, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
Great Southwest article! It makes a clear, succinct case for visitors to go there. And, as I said, those neighborhood-shaded maps are great, really attractive and useful. I'll call the Chicago Blues Museum and the motels/hotels some time this week for hours and prices. Don't know if you heard, but Canaryville has lately been mentioned (along with Bridgeport) as a gentrification candidate, with young hipsters moving in. I've never been there, so I can't testify to how weird that is (or isn't).
I'd put West Town lower on your map list than the others - it has more listings left to come than the near west or the two north side districts do, and the boundaries are still fuzzy. I have a slew of Logan Square listings yet to enter, and still have some calls out for recommendations from friends who live or have lived there. Gorilla Jones 23:47, 10 September 2007 (EDT)
I looked for lodging in Bridgeport a while ago myself, but the housing stock seemed to be most rewarding for people who want to buy and fix up something, and I lack those skills. (Plus, visiting is one thing, but it's another thing entirely for a kid from the north side to move over that border, and vice versa.) I'm getting ready to move at the end of this month. If I had my druthers, I'd be going to Avondale or Portage Park sheerly for the sake of charting the great unknown, but my girlfriend wouldn't put up with being that remote, so we're headed to North Lincoln.
Anyway, free tickets to the Sox game this weekend fell into my lap, so I'll take some photos if I can. Gorilla Jones 23:16, 11 September 2007 (EDT)
So I can't promise anything, but can you think of anywhere in particular in Bridgeport you'd like to get photographed? I'll try when I'm there tomorrow. Gorilla Jones 22:21, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Lincoln Park-Old Town[edit]

Great! Looking forward to the map. The article is still many listings short of completion, but I'll let you know when I've added all I can. (I'm not sure I have it in me to make Lincoln Park a star...) Scout Flickr if you like - I wasn't impressed with anything I saw on Wikimedia Commons. I'll probably do another run at the zoo and outside Second City for photo purposes. Gorilla Jones 02:04, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

Would you be adverse to chopping off the lakeside extension (North to Division) from the Near North and adding it to Old Town? There are only two listings currently there, but that stretch has some historic houses I'd like to cover in the Old Town article and seem to be a better fit there, plus that begins the Near North at the beginning of the Mag Mile. Dunno if that would be a violation of widely understood and accepted Chicago neighborhood borders, though, so tell me if it is. Gorilla Jones 00:03, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
I see what you mean - that's definitely not Old Town. I was thinking about merging Gold Coast into the LP-OT article, since I'd prefer not to add a new section to an already over-stuffed article, using Oak Street as the southern border. Does that make sense? Gorilla Jones 11:32, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
Yeah, I think of it that way, too. The Astor Street Historic District [4] is what I have in mind. It's usually covered in Old Town architecture tours (with the Mid-North District [5], which is definitely in Old Town). I guess they could go in separate articles with a pointer link in both directions. Gorilla Jones 15:02, 15 September 2007 (EDT)
We arrived too late to do any Bridgeport photos other than the park itself, unfortunately. (I also uploaded an interior view if you prefer that. As you can see, it was after sundown.) I like the idea of roughing up the Gold Coast a bit, so sure, let's divide it between the two articles, but cut it at Division - I think that Rush Street bar-alley should remain together. Gorilla Jones 01:11, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Addresses in India[edit]

Re: your downgrade of Delhi, most places in India do not have addresses in the Western sense. See [6]. Jpatokal 01:12, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

Ah, so I see. Still, though, Delhi's a big place—I think some sort of directions are in order before we call it a guide article. --Peter Talk 02:18, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

Interesting/Next Level?[edit]

[7] 2old 15:43, 18 September 2007 (EDT)


Hi Peter; I lived in Kazakhstan for 2+ years and have been to just about every city in the eastern part of the country. My wife is also Kazakh and could offer some useful tips as to what to do in some of the major cities. I'll attempt to divide the country into travel groups as you suggested but I know a lot more about the eastern part of Kazakhstan (I lived in Ust-Kamenogorsk) than the western part. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dardekkis (talkcontribs)


Excellent advice, thanks. Have seen that syndrome a couple times. Hey, I read a bit of your user page and decided to start an account as OldPine, but even figuring out which button to push was a challenge :) Seemed to me that there might be an OldPine account being used there. Hard to believe! OldPine 20:04, 28 September 2007 (EDT)

Bah. I was trying to sign in, not creating. OldPine 20:07, 28 September 2007 (EDT)


I am sorry Peter for my ignorance of the Wikipedia policies. I will change these pictures and put pictures with no recognizable people soon. And also for the pictures with no distinctly visible people, how do I put in licencing info. All these photos have been taken by me and I want to release them to the public domain.


Hi Peter,

You keep erasing my changes to the Yerevan page. Any reason why my changes are not accepted?

Hello, is this Mhagopian? If so, I explained my reverts here. The short answer, though, is that there was significant copyright infringement. Please see Wikitravel:Copyleft for more details regarding what kind of content is acceptable under our licensing requirements. --Peter Talk 22:03, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

Logout problem[edit]

Hello Peter,

KevinSours from IB is going to fix the problem now, but he seems to want to know other contributors's opinions about his way to fix it; adding a "remember me" option to Special:OpenIDLogin. Would you please let him know on the tech request page, whether the problem occurs with OpenID or not, and your opinion on his concern? Thanks. -- Tatata7 22:49, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

Vandalism policy?[edit]

I don't know about you folks (I'm sending the same message to several), but I for one am getting sick and tired of the intentional vandalism that's going on here. I am trying to start a discussion on Wikitravel talk:Community policies as to whether something more forceful needs to be in place to deal with it. Historically, we have bent far over backwards to avoid punitive action against vandals and have simply gone in and cleaned up the messes they create. However, the frequency of vandalism is growing, and I am not convinced that we are doing Wikitravel a service by tolerating it. This said, I'm not at all sure what the "right" response is.

I'd appreciate your participation in the discussion on that talk page. Let's see if we can come up with something appropriate. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:43, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Sligo get out info[edit]

Peter, I've added info to the Sligo ===Get Out=== section. It probably requires some tidy-up, as it's mostly thrown together from memory (with some help from various Wikitravel and Wikipedia articles), but it's a start. I'd be interested to know what you think. --The.Q 08:02, 25 October 2007 (EDT)

Russian wikitravel[edit]


I would like to help you to organize Wikitravel in russian and make it really popular. To achieve it we can make several improvements: - we could buy a domain in .ru zone (it is a very impotant to russian search engines and it makes easier to find wikitravel in Russia) - also it would be great to give opportunity to leave personal impression about country and put links to blogs and so on, since there are a lot of travel stories, that you can find on personal pages. Also we can take the main points from this link to include them into wiki texts (if authour do not have time to do it).

So, if you are interested, please contact me dvasilieva @ Daria

Brachiosaurus photo?[edit]

Peter, any chance you'd have a photo of that Brachiosaurus skeleton that you mention at O'Hare? I've just added it to the "Upcoming" queue for Wikitravel:Discover, and that seems like an entry that could benefit from a thumbnail. Thanks ... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:14, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Agreed, that's not a super shot, but it's good enough for a Discover thumbnail. Thanks... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:28, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
Alas, it won't work after all. The (very) vertical format turns out to cause problems when incorporated into the Discover template. Thanks anyway. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:33, 28 October 2007 (EDT)


I think you had a good idea about the terminal map, and a hotel map might be useful. Depends on how difficult either would be to create. I wouldn't call either of them necessities for going to print - I don't think I've ever used a guidebook with those - but I imagine they could be put to use. Gorilla Jones 17:24, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Great photos! Very nicely done with those. We could put it up for a star with maps, I reckon. Gorilla Jones 17:27, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
I meant to have a beautifully productive night at the keyboard, and then I fell asleep as soon as I got home. Well, nicely done on the O'Hare map, anyway. There's gate-location information for the various buy/eat/drink places on the terminal maps at, but I wonder if that changes so often as to make mapping useless on our part - and if that level of detail is even useful on our parts. We could put it up for a star and see what people think. For the Along the Magnificent Mile map, would it be possible to extend a block or two west to include Union Station? Gorilla Jones 08:25, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
By the way, I have three places I need to visit on Milwaukee Avenue to check out before I list them (for 'Buy'), but otherwise, Chicago/Far Northwest Side is ready for mapping - since those three are all on Milwaukee, they shouldn't change the scope of the map. Let me know if you need any help there - being the last frontier and all... Gorilla Jones 08:52, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
My guess is that the two Edison Park listings are the most distant, although Jolly Inn is pretty remote, too. I can see how this would be a huge challenge to map, given how spread out the district is. I'd guess most of it could be handled by an Avondale map and a Portage Park / Irving Park map, with the rest covered by good wishes to the traveler... Gorilla Jones 23:11, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

Logan Square[edit]

I'm considering a split to give Logan Square its own page. Would you be able to do a map for Logan Square? My grasp on the borders of the neighborhood isn't strong. Gorilla Jones 01:15, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Sure, we can split off Pilsen/Lower West Side. It'll be stuck at outline for a while though unless you have something up your sleeve. Gorilla Jones 01:37, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
Hey, so what do you think the new article should be called? "Lower West Side" (in keeping with Near Wesr and Far West) or "Pilsen" (in keeping with examples like Logan Square)? Gorilla Jones 08:02, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
It is done. I don't plan to add any more listings to the Chicago/Near West Side, just some not-yet-taken photos and summations, so you can finish off that map. Gorilla Jones 21:07, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
What do you think about giving West Town/Logan its own color/section on the Districts map? It covers as rich ground as Lakeview/Lincoln Park does. (I don't know what it would be called directionally, though.) Gorilla Jones 22:01, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
I'd definitely like to retain the directional names for the district map. What's motivating me is that the West Side now comprises five separate articles, while no other section comprises more than three (and most have only one or two). But no, I don't have an idea for another Side name. If you think the Far West will be a strong article when you're done with it, that could be separated and take the number down to four. Gorilla Jones 22:30, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

wiki United Kingdom - 9 cities list[edit]

Hi there :)

i noticed you edited my alteration to the 9 cities list. You have cited that a concensus needs to be reached before editing. My question is how do you go about getting a concensus? Being new to this I do not know how that works. To gain a concensus would mean lots of people would need to respond. But what if no one bothers to respond to the discussion I have already raised.

Also, reading thru the discussion part, from "the old city problem" it seems the concensus has been for people to edit and change as long as they give valid reasoning, which I have done. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Daniel robinson (talkcontribs)

re: 9 cities list wiki: United Kingdom[edit]

Thanks for your help and advice peter. I have taken on board your comments and have consequently re-worded my addition to the discussion in a way that better invites responses. I will leave it as that for a while, and if no replies appear, i'll msg some of the users, and take it from there. thanyou


there appears to be lots of people in support of the proposal. I have messaged some of the other users who were vocal in participation before, however for many of them they have not been active since 2006, which means chances are they will not reply. Also, it is worth noteing that for the current list of 9 cities, there was never any concensus, and ironically, my recent proposal surpasses what was previously proposed, in terms of number of people supporting it. Id therefore like to ask you to contribute to the discussion with a view to alter/amend the list using ur experience . :) --Daniel robinson 22:38, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Image:O'Hare Neon Walkway.jpg[edit]

Suitable for framing!! very good work 2old 11:37, 3 November 2007 (EDT)


Thanks - the Laotian place was a great find. It's new, and separated from the rest by a few blocks. I'm rooting for them to do well. I have a bunch of listings from the SE Asian streets that I need to write up. (There was a place called Cafe Lao where they were bewildered by my inquiry as to whether they served any Laotian food.) Only disappointment was not being able to find any that did Cambodian food - I like me some amok curry! Gorilla Jones 13:12, 4 November 2007 (EST)

Hey, is the Near West Side map missing the Sleep listings? I can't find them on there. Gorilla Jones 14:44, 4 November 2007 (EST)
Thanks! I'm planning to have some Uptowners vet the article once it's polished. I may add one or two Buy listings if I can deciper my own scrawl, so you might hold off another day before putting the map online. I'll let you know. Gorilla Jones 03:24, 7 November 2007 (EST)
No more listings for Uptown - have at that map. Gorilla Jones 22:13, 10 November 2007 (EST)
No, I don't know the borders by street. No problem moving Ardmore House to Edgewater, but I'd like to keep Early to Bed in the same article as Andersonville, since there's a lot of cross-promotion between the feminist businesses on Clark and Early to Bed - they clearly consider themselves to be in the same article! Looks like Sabai-dee gets left off with these borders, too. That one may well be over in Edgewater, but it's so close to Argyle that it seems a shame not to fudge a bit. If messing with these borders makes you uncomfortable, bear in mind that the original University of Chicago community division had the whole of Edgewater in Uptown, and Edgewater residents rebelled and broke off after the fortunes of Uptown began to decline. You're striking a blow for your forebears... Gorilla Jones 09:35, 12 November 2007 (EST)
On an unrelated note, I don't think I noticed the enlarged Magnificent Mile map in the Near North article before. Nice going on that one! Gorilla Jones 12:12, 12 November 2007 (EST)

The only carp I would make with that latest version is that Andersonville definitely doesn't extend to the lake. If you cut it off at Glenwood to the east and Bryn Mawr to the north, I think you have a good set of boundaries that reflects the reality of the area. By the way, I covered miles of Pilsen and have enough to make a decent guide of it - will start writing things up tomorrow. The Nuevo Leon restaurant is a beauty! Gorilla Jones 01:28, 13 November 2007 (EST)

By the way, while passing through there over the weekend, I noticed a community boundary marker for Andersonville - the northern boundary is at Rosehill, which is where Clark and Ashland split. If this note throws the Uptown map askew, then just save it for the Rogers Park / Edgewater map. Gorilla Jones 01:51, 20 November 2007 (EST)

Chicago with children[edit]

Not that we should be adding more work for ourselves, but do you see any virtue in doing a "Chicago with children" itine-topic (like the ones people were doing for Charlotte, New York, et al) for the print version? Gorilla Jones 07:34, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Far West Side[edit]

Ah, terrific. We, alone among all others, have a quality guide to the Far West Side. I like that you did your due diligence in keeping the lines about the "startling changes" on the Green Line. It's funny to see those chestnuts seamlessly integrated into a new article. Is the size of the Far West making the map a challenge? Gorilla Jones 08:15, 9 November 2007 (EST)

By the way, I think you said you missed one part of the Far West. Which one was it? Gorilla Jones 08:18, 9 November 2007 (EST)
I have Monday off, so I'm planning to spend the entire day on my feet scouting Pilsen. Let's make sure we don't trip over each other on that one! I will aim to finish Uptown tonight - I'm off to get the last couple of Far Northwest listings to call that one done. Gorilla Jones 16:58, 9 November 2007 (EST)
Got a no-answer at both places. I'll try again tomorrow. Gorilla Jones 20:05, 9 November 2007 (EST)
Still no answer at Unfound Art. I sent the guy an email. I'll let you know if a few days pass without a reply. Bravo on the Far West map - I love seeing how all of those places fit together. Same feeling I had about the Far Northwest map. Douglass Library is misspelled, though. (The street and park are one 's', but the library is two.) I am done with listings for the Far Northwest - unless I can't get ahold of Crown Gift Shop in the next couple of days, in which case I'm dropping that listing. Gorilla Jones 19:51, 11 November 2007 (EST)
Crown is dropped. A shame - it seemed interesting. I'm adding one to make up for it, but no more. Gorilla Jones 13:14, 12 November 2007 (EST)


I think you can add the current Lakeview listings and put the map online. There are probably still one or two bars, a couple of restaurants and a handful of 'Buy' listings left to go, but the areas are all covered, and the bulk of the listings are up there. (It'd be helpful to see the map to know if I need to scout anywhere.) Good news about that Georgian bakery on Devon, by the way! Gorilla Jones 01:32, 14 November 2007 (EST)

Spring Hiking in Sheki[edit]

Peter, it is possible to go hiking in Sheki on the routes that are posted in the Spring.I have gone twice on the routes in the past week and I have also gone in January-May and it is no problem (you can actually have snow-ball fights on top of Gelersen Goresen). I'm not sure about the MoS problems on Sheki, but if you have any suggestions for improvement please let me know. Thanks again!Cupcakecommander 00:09, 15 November 2007 (EST)


Are you sure Pizza Nova is in Heart of Chicago? That's across the street from the National Museum of Mexican Art and one block west of the 18th Street Pink Line station. Gorilla Jones 00:53, 15 November 2007 (EST)

I have a few pages of notes on Pilsen galleries to write up - I'll let you know when I'm through mine, and you can judge how much I'm missing. Gorilla Jones 22:02, 15 November 2007 (EST)
I've written up my notes on everything in Pilsen but the galleries. If you want to add some listings to the gallery section, I won't be tackling it until tomorrow evening, so you're welcome to have a go without a risk of tripping over each other... Gorilla Jones 02:13, 16 November 2007 (EST)
All of my gallery notes are in for Pilsen. If you have any others to add, go ahead - there were only a couple others besides those that appeared to be accessible from the street, but I didn't try to get up into the appointment-only lofts. There are a couple of West Pilsen galleries that we need to cover, but otherwise, with a map and an introduction, it's done. Gorilla Jones 01:39, 19 November 2007 (EST)
No more listings from me for Pilsen. I'll write an Understand tomorrow. Gorilla Jones 01:45, 20 November 2007 (EST)


What happened to your dream of wandering across India? Settling for Baltimore? Come on now – cacahuate talk 23:40, 19 November 2007 (EST)

Ah, work related. Well, either one is actually fine... different, but they both have their interesting points. Crossing my fingers for ya – cacahuate talk 00:45, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Small update[edit]

Only two new listings for the North Lincoln map - Nazareth Sweets and Montrose Saloon - the third, Rosehill Cemetery, is already on there. Thanks. Gorilla Jones 01:45, 21 November 2007 (EST)

The random caps on North Lincoln were due to a sloppy find-and-replace to get the street addresses standard-ized (turn all 'N.' to 'N', etc). I am resigned to the fact that regardless of how much time we spend proofreading the article, at least one will survive to publication.
Glad I could finally get a Baltimore insider's opinion on "The Wire"! If anything, the show only gets better through its next three seasons. Careful around spoilers for season three, though. Gorilla Jones 08:01, 21 November 2007 (EST)
It's fun to see the Pilsen map and how everything fits together, by the way. I don't think you need boundary shading there - looks good as-is. Gorilla Jones 08:06, 21 November 2007 (EST)


I am very glad that you also work on Greenwich village page. I live in New York, so I love to walk tehre and make photographs there. I already brought some photos into WIKItravel.

  • by the way, I also speak Russian. My native town is Odessa, Ukraine. I am gong do add some odessan photos in WIKItravel.

Greatings ... I also like Greenwich Village[edit]

I wrote you something on your discussion page. GK tramrunner 20:23, 24 November 2007 (EST)

Your assignment, should you choose to accept it...[edit]

Can you do the West Loop gallery scene? Gorilla Jones 23:11, 26 November 2007 (EST)

Small matter on the Lakeview map - you have 'Horning Park', not 'Horner Park' as it should be. I should be done on listings for that article imminently, although there's some writing left to do. Also, on the Near North map, Fairbanks Court is mislabeled as Columbus Drive - it starts being Columbus Drive once it hits the Loop. Much appreciation... Gorilla Jones
OK - I still need to flesh out some of the descriptions, but Chicago/Lakeview-North Center listings are done if you want to update that map. Gorilla Jones 02:43, 29 November 2007 (EST)
Good point about the galleries - I think it's important for them to be in 'See', so that people understand they don't have to buy anything in order to visit the gallery. But as I recall I put them in 'Buy' for the Near North, so that will have to be changed. Gorilla Jones 00:08, 30 November 2007 (EST)
Got all of the Wicker Park listings I'll need today, by the way - you wouldn't believe how squeaky clean the Harold's up there is! Gorilla Jones 19:13, 30 November 2007 (EST)
All in for Wicker Park except 'Buy', if you want to start on the map. The borders with Bucktown may prove a little tricky. I'm pretty confident everything currently in the WP article belongs there, but Bucktown borders tend to be fluid with WP and Logan on either side. Gorilla Jones 15:25, 2 December 2007 (EST)
All in for Wicker Park - map away. I took the occasion of the gallery buy-to-see move to update Near North with a few months of added experience - hope that doesn't create headaches. By the way, I checked to be exact - Fairbanks becomes Columbus Drive at Illinois Street. Gorilla Jones 01:35, 3 December 2007 (EST)

I would leave the Warehouse District alone for now - I also (deliberately) under-covered River West, which is similar in the sense that it's "hot" but it's also a developer-engineered area that hasn't really developed a natural identity yet, and all that either of us could do would be to paste some listings together without encapsulating what the area is about. I listed one sixtyblue because it has emerged as a favorite, but the only time I hear about other places around there is when a celebrity comes to town and puts in an appearance at a club that's closed two months later. If it nags you, plunge forward, but I'm comfortable leaving it out until later. Gorilla Jones 01:26, 5 December 2007 (EST)

Ha! I have my formatting peccadilloes, but I suspect I'm less particular about them than you are. Thanks for tackling that. Just leave Wicker Park alone for now - I'm trying to get that finished off before bed. Gorilla Jones 01:54, 5 December 2007 (EST)


All Do/Eat/Drink/Buy etc listings are in for Chicago/Lincoln Park-Old Town, if that lets you move ahead with the map. I need to write up the Astor Street and Mid-North Street historic districts - I was going to suggest you simply mark them off like you did for Hutchinson Street in Uptown and then call the LP-OT map done, but I just looked and I don't see Hutchinson on the Uptown map any more - did I imagine that? Gorilla Jones 01:12, 7 December 2007 (EST)

Hutchinson Street is a historical district mentioned in the Uptown article. My recollection is that you had marked that street in some clever way on an early version of the map. I must be wrong, though. Gorilla Jones 08:11, 7 December 2007 (EST)
OK, all's in for Lincoln Park-Old Town. Sorry for any confusion. Gorilla Jones 18:35, 7 December 2007 (EST)
The LP-OT map is top-notch, very nice handling of the districts. The Astor Street solution is good, too. I'll do the Understand for Near West tomorrow - I have scribblings on a couple scraps of paper to cobble together. If you'd like to write the Understand for the Loop, please do. I could come up with something given time, but I was going to spend most of the weekend on Logan-Bucktown and Rogers Park. Gorilla Jones 03:33, 8 December 2007 (EST)

North Korea Updates[edit]

Dear Peter:

Thanks for your comments. I have been visiting North Korea since April, 1995, and most recently this past September for a total of 11 times, including Kumgang, Kaesong (from both the North and South, including the Kaesong Industrial Complex), Panmunjom (again from both the North and South), Pyongyang, Myohyang, Nampo, and Wonsan. I'll try to add more information on the various cities/sites in future updates, including photos (I have thousands of digital photos.)Walterkem 08:47, 7 December 2007 (EST)


Good job with the Understand section! Does the job nicely and succinctly, I think. Gorilla Jones 22:58, 12 December 2007 (EST)

Mystery to me about those Bellas - the one on Clark looked quite nice the couple of times I saw it, but the other is in the middle of nowhere. I'm planning to call to double-check that they're really open. All listings are in the Rogers Park article save Devon Avenue 'Buy' listings. I do plan to name the individual beaches, but those can be done with names on the map (like parks), not with numbers, if you prefer... Gorilla Jones 02:35, 13 December 2007 (EST)
Sure, I'll try to knock off those Loop architecture listings tomorrow afternoon, so we can go final then. Rogers Park listings are done, save for beaches, if you want to fill out that map. Gorilla Jones 00:45, 14 December 2007 (EST)
OK, beaches are in, descriptions to come - my memory needs refreshing. Gorilla Jones 02:01, 14 December 2007 (EST)
Are you almost done with the Loop? I'm ready to start working on that architecture section but I don't want to trip over any fresh formatting. Gorilla Jones 17:47, 14 December 2007 (EST)
I'll set to work, then, thanks. Delighted to see the Rogers Park map - if the snow doesn't make the city impassable, I'll be tromping around there tomorrow morning for photos and memory-refreshment on the individual beaches. Gorilla Jones 18:24, 14 December 2007 (EST)
The Loop article is pretty damn good now. I have photos and memory refreshment from a trip to Rogers Park (in the midst of a blizzard) so I'm optimistic about calling final on that shortly. Gorilla Jones 02:54, 16 December 2007 (EST)


Why is a vote for deletion in a section entitle VFD Discussion considered off-topic?--Wandering 15:25, 15 December 2007 (EST)

Didn't realize it was archived. No sense in flogging a dead horse....--Wandering 22:46, 15 December 2007 (EST)

Southwest Side[edit]

Evidently, the Chicago/Southwest Side hotels got overlooked. I'll make calls tomorrow — feel free to kick me if I forget. Gorilla Jones 01:17, 16 December 2007 (EST)

You're the photo hunter...[edit]

Are we on solid ground using this either in print or online? Not essential, but it is an Edgewater landmark. Gorilla Jones 18:11, 16 December 2007 (EST)

OK. I didn't expect to change so much in Chicago/Rogers Park, but re-visiting the old 'hood reminded me of places and took me past some new ones. I'll put together an Understand and call 'done'. Gorilla Jones 22:39, 16 December 2007 (EST)

Far NW photos[edit]

I have a couple leftover photos from the Far NW than I'll look through later. Mr. Steer isn't a bad choice, though, figuring into the whole meat paradise of the place. Gorilla Jones 08:15, 17 December 2007 (EST)

I'll go through Far NW photos tomorrow night - I have a Portage Theater shot of my own, and I have a friend who'd let me use his night Portage shot if I asked. I'll show you both and you can choose (or stick with Mr. Steer). Agreed that we just don't have any good Near West photos. I have some great photos of the Haymarket monument from Waldheim Cemetery, but that's not actually in the Near West, just related to it. That may have to wait until after the New Year. As for Logan-Bucktown, I have a few more things to add, not much - whatever's in by the end of Tuesday night is final. It'll have fewer restaurants than other Chicago articles, but 6/5/3 is hardly empty, and dining isn't the area's strength (as far as I know).
I'd like to drop most of that 'neighborhoods' section in the Understand for the main Chicago article. It strikes me as redundant now that the whole main article is filled out. First we describe neighborhoods in the district list, and then in that paragraph, and then in the See/Do/Eat/etc sections of the main article, and then in the summaries in the district articles themselves, before you finally come to the actual listings. How many times do we need to say there's Chinese food in Chinatown or jazz in Uptown? We could use that intro to stress the depth of our neighborhood coverage and lose the rest - the main article Sea/Do/Eat provide evidence of the guide's strength. Gorilla Jones 02:22, 18 December 2007 (EST)

OK, I've uploaded two more from my Far NW trip: 1 and 2. (My friend's photos were too blurry for use.) If either looks good in print, put it in; if not, Mr. Steer can lead the way. I'm done with Logan-Bucktown. If you want to add anything, feel free, otherwise map and file under Ready. Glad you liked the Rogers Park article! I really wanted to do well by the old home.

I'm a huge fan of the Chicago overview map. While being simple to grasp and easy to interpret, it still packs a surprising amount of detail. From my jaded local perspective, I just enjoyed seeing how the expressways fit together and which familiar streets were the longest. I think it's a great asset to the guide. Gorilla Jones 02:49, 19 December 2007 (EST)