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User talk:Seligne

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Hello, Seligne! Welcome to Wikitravel.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Wikitravel:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.

  • Great work on the Khao Lak article, good to see some informed and developmental editing occuring in that article. Keep up the good work. -- felix 19:06, 21 June 2012 (EDT)

Welcome and great work[edit]

Hi Seligne, Just wanted to drop you a note and say how I've admired your work here. If you have ever thought of becoming a volunteer administrator, please contact me and let's talk. Also: do you contribute on any other language versions?--IBobi talk email 16:01, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

Thanks much[edit]

I take that as high praise indeed, coming from you. I have no clue what a volunteer admin might do, but I am open to helping the wiki community in any way that I can. Frankly, I have reading ability in French and German, and, incipiently, Thai, but I am a newbie and have not gone poking around other language versions. In fact, figuring out how to reply to your communication is taxing my current skill set. I hope this makes it to you! seligne 17:37, 13 September 2012 (EDT)Seligneseligne 17:37, 13 September 2012 (EDT)

I would welcome your input on the current Administrator nominations and respectfully remind you that according to your user page you already seem to have the primary requirement yourself: a genuine wish to assist the traveller! --W. Franke-mailtalk 11:09, 7 October 2012 (EDT)

Message from a very new Italian Admin[edit]

Dear Seligne,

Thanks for your message. Your contributions have been extremely valuable and I am really sorry if I have mistaken your explanation about the edit you made. I'll make sure to restore your post as soon as possible. Thanks, EDB 08:43, 26 October 2012 (EDT)


I'm sorry I could not really answer your question. --singaporeAlice 18:03, 29 October 2012 (EDT)


I admire the contributions you are making to South East Asian and especially Thailand articles, but I was rather puzzled by this edit and the accompanying edit comment you made: "WiFi is the preferred WT standard".

This is because, since 7 November 2007, the advice given at Abbrev.#Contact has been clearly different: "Wi-Fi is used for wireless internet using access points (hotspots)"

Does this advice to use Wi-Fi (with a hyphen) differ from advice given on some other policy page, please? --singaporeAlice 22:21, 16 November 2012 (EST)

Alice: When I first started doing WT I read the Style Manual, etc. I read somewhere that the correct usage was "Wi-Fi", so I dutifully used that construction. Then, an Admin (I think it was iBob?) came along and changed all to "WiFi". I remonstrated, and he explained something about "Wi-Fi" being a trademark. As I recall, he may have said that the Style Manual was being changed to reflect that. So, as a new guy, I have been following his guidance ever since. I hope this helps explain the seemingly arbitrary change I made. seligne 22:51, 16 November 2012 (EST)Seligne
IBobi is an IBAdmin and is not and has never been an Admin here - he seems to be temperamentally unsuited to collegiate behaviour. He was given the keys to the Janitor's locker by Internet brands and has sacked or driven away many of the Admins that were properly appointed. However, essentially the lunatics are now in charge of the asylum and it's always safer to follow a dictator's whims.
It wouldn't matter that much if IBobi wasn't too lazy/hypocritical to actually get around to changing the policy pages. All he has to do is be honest and write something like: it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks - the management of Internet Brands have put me in charge here and I have decided that we will henceforward abbreviate Wednesday to "yad"
In this particular case there is a valid argument (put forcefully here some while ago by Felix) that says we shouldn't use "Wi-Fi". However, from a legal standpoint, I assume Wikedtravel's servers and registered offices are in the US and that Internet Brands do not actively trade (or intend to trade) in WLAN equipment so there is no reason whatever not to use a WLAN "trademark" since there is zero danger of a successful action for either passing off or trademark infringement in respect of "Wi-Fi" being brought.
Until and unless IBobi changes the relevant policy pages I shall follow the advice given on our policy pages - to do anything else risks spreading the contagion. --singaporeAlice 23:25, 16 November 2012 (EST)
Hey, I know nothing of personalities here. And I don't much care what format we use as long as we are all consistent. If you feel strongly about this, I am happy to go with "Wi-Fi" as I originally did. Further, I think we should research existing conventional sources like Wikipedia, The Economist Style Guide, the NYT Style Guide, et al., to conform with most existing standards.seligne 02:49, 17 November 2012 (EST)Seligne
Wikipedia uses Wi-Fi, The Economist Style Guide is off-line at the moment. My position is similar to yours. It's literally a waste of everybody's time (including his own) if IBobi unilaterally changes settled policies without making those changes clear on the policy pages themselves.
Incidentally (although) it's poorly documented, it's better to reply on the User Talk page that a question was posed or a comment made (ie here!) rather than going to the User Talk page of the user that posed the question or made the comment (ie mine). That user (ie myself) should be "watching" the page where they posted! (I add to my "Watch list" every page I edit, including this one). --singaporeAlice 21:23, 18 November 2012 (EST)
FYI definitely wasn't me; first I've heard of this ;) --IBobi talk email 20:57, 19 November 2012 (EST)
I'm glad to hear that IBobi! Do you want me to follow my own advice at UUTP and strike the redundant and inappropriate parts of my comments above? --singaporeAlice 21:20, 19 November 2012 (EST)

IBobi is correct and I stand corrected. I went back and checked the record and I was discussing this issue with Felix505, who instructed me to go with "WiFi" as opposed to "Wi-Fi". My apologies to IBobi for not verifying this at the outset. seligne 21:46, 19 November 2012 (EST)Seligne

I think IBobi has been a model of restraint in this instance and I can learn from his example.
I'd welcome your input on my draft policy page here, seligne: UUTP. You can edit the page directly or raise any comments on the associated (User name space) article discussion page. --singaporeAlice 01:06, 20 November 2012 (EST)

Baht or ฿ ?[edit]

I'm having second thoughts about changing baht to ฿ as our standard.

Here's why:

1) Colleagues tell me that ฿ is not very often seen in Thailand - บาท or บ is used instead

2) If it is used, Thai usage is to put ฿ after the amount - not before, as our current guidelines dictate

What do you think, Seligne?

I'd welcome hearing your thoughts here: --singaporeAlice 00:40, 17 November 2012 (EST)

I would prefer that we continue to use the form "xx baht" to using "xx ฿. In my 18 months in Thailand I have only seen ฿ used fewer than 5 times. But my larger question is this: The International Standards Organisation has already established standards for currency. Why don't we just use it: THBxxx, USDxxx, JPYxxx, etc., etc., instead of reinventing the wheel. Same applies for date formats and many other conventions. seligne 02:49, 17 November 2012 (EST)Seligne
PLEASE make your thoughts clear here then: --singaporeAlice 21:23, 18 November 2012 (EST)
Thanks for clarifying that baht is best there, Seligne. I think we should wait 7 days to see if there are any opposing opinions in favour of ฿ and then make the appropriate MoS changes. --singaporeAlice 21:25, 19 November 2012 (EST)

Udon Thani page[edit]

Hi Seligne,

I am writing further to Alice's comments on the page and would be very grateful for your input.

I understand that you originally deleted the details of the two properties on 13th October 2012 (Gecko Villa and Green Gecko) with a mention that the websites were unavailable. I am not sure what the issue was at that time, as the two separate domains have been operating, uninterrupted, for 10 years and 4 years respectively, and both are accessible. (It is of course possible that you experienced a network error at that time.)

When re-listing the properties they were then again deleted for "Qjumping", despite the fact that they were added in the correct section (Sleep/Out of Town) and in alphabetical order.

The internet archive wayback machine shows the Gecko Villa page as listed since 2006 with Green Gecko, constructed several years later, listed since 2008

As suggested by Alice, we have read the Wikitravel:Don't tout page. Its meaning is clear. However, we have not listed outlets of the same business in different sections, but rather have added two separate businesses. They are separate properties, on separate websites, with different ownership structures, situated on different plots of land, and with different review pages on Tripadvisor etc. Our aim is simply to direct readers to the correct webpage for each property.

The following are the proposed edits to reinstate the listings, and I look forward to your comments:

  • Gecko Villa, Um Chan, Prachak Sinlaphakhom (Complimentary airport transfers), +66 81 9180500, [1]. checkin: flexible; checkout: flexible. The 3 bedroom villa has a private swimming pool, offers full board holidays and sleeps up to 6 guests. Facilities include Satellite TV, DVD, air-conditioning,Wi-Fi & complimentary laundry & maid services. 6800 baht. (17.251349,103.038143) edit
  • Green Gecko, Um Chan, Prachak Sinlaphakhom (Complimentary airport transfers), +66 87 0088134, [2]. checkin: flexible; checkout: flexible. This rural Thai villa has a private swimming pool and is fully catered. It offers Satellite TV, DVD, air-conditioning,Wi-Fi & complimentary laundry & maid services. 7500 baht. (17.25033,103.03802) edit

Should you prefer to add these or reinstate the listings yourself, please do feel free to do so! Alternatively, I look forward to your feedback.

Many thanks for your time & best wishes,

Bongkot Bongkot 05:33, 30 November 2012 (EST)

I apologise if I deleted these two listings for the simple reason that I could not access the websites.
It appears to me that you have done your due diligence and have made good faith efforts to comply with the goals WT is trying to achieve. Further, you have two separate properties with correspondingly different URLs, etc., so I am in support of listing them.
I would be happy to re-list them, but may not get to it for a day or so as for some reason I am incredibly booked this weekend. So, let's just say that whomever gets to it first, me or you, is welcome to relist.
Thank you for being understanding and for doing your homework! Alice and I and the rest of WT contributors are just trying to ensure a quality product that does not stray too far off the reservation.
Cheers and thanx for the contributions, seligne 07:54, 30 November 2012 (EST)

Dear Seligne, Many thanks for your prompt reply, and for your kind help in re-listing the properties. Your assistance is truly appreciated! Best wishes Bongkot Bongkot 01:41, 1 December 2012 (EST)

Volunteer administrator[edit]

Dear Seligne! Your contribution on WT is priceless. Thank you for making WT a better tourist guide! Please let me know if you would like to become an administrator over here? You know the site perfectly, you are familiar with policies and help us make sure WT is free of spam. I believe you would be great in this new task. Please let me know. warm regards, IBAlex 18:37, 3 December 2012 (EST)

Thank you, Alex, for the kind words. I am happy to do whatever I can to support WT, as I am firmly committed to open-source sites such as this and WP. I am not quite certain what the responsibilities of an administrator are. I will poke around and see what I can find on the site. In short, I am willing to become an administrator if doing so would increase my ability to contribute. seligne 18:58, 3 December 2012 (EST)
Seligne- thank you very much for a quick reply. I would gladly tell you more about administrators' responsibilities.
First of all, as an administrator you would help the site by eliminating spam and vandalism faster and more effective. Administrators have a special Rolling Back tool which allows them to revert nonconstructive content with just one click. It is especially useful when a user/ IP address does the site lots of harm and you want to delete his/her edits faster because they certainly do not benefit the Traveler. Secondly, you would be able to block IP addresses and user accounts when they have been used for vandalism and spam. This is especially useful when an IP address/ user creates lots of inappropriate content and it's important to first block him/her before he/she does more harm to the site.
Therefore, by becoming an administrator you would clearly contribute more to the site, make WT a better tourist guide and help other travelers enjoy reading and editing free of spam and vandalism articles.
Please let me know if you would like to know more about becoming an administrator. I am here to answer all your questions.
Looking forward to hearing from you. Warm regards, IBAlex 19:51, 3 December 2012 (EST)
OK, it sounds as if I can handle that. How can I throw my hat in the ring? Best, seligne 20:05, 3 December 2012 (EST)
Happy to hear that! Thank you! Let's start with the standard procedure- I will put your name on the Wikitravel:Administrator nominations page and let's wait for community support which will come for sure. Warm regards, IBAlex 20:25, 3 December 2012 (EST)
Hello! It's been already 2 weeks since you were nominated for an administrator and the community supported you for this role. I am very happy to give you admin privileges today. Please let me know if you need any assistance! Warm regards, IBAlex 20:31, 17 December 2012 (EST)
Thanks much, Alex! Hope to help the site to the extent possible! seligne 20:37, 17 December 2012 (EST)
Great to hear that! Good luck! IBAlex 18:10, 18 December 2012 (EST)

Thank you[edit]

Hello Seligne! Thank you very much for your contributions on Wikitravel! We are sending now some small Christmas gifts for our most active voluntary administrators and contributors and we would like to send one for you. It's going to be something symbolic, like Wikitravel mug for example. If you would like to receive it, please provide your mailing address by sending an email to [email protected] We are looking forward to your reply! Warm regards, IBAlex 18:10, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Thanks, Alex, but I decline the gracious offer due to the costs of shipping stuff to me here in Thailand and to the fact that I am trying to now live as lightly as possible. Like living on a boat: when you add a new thing, you've got to get rid of an old thing, and I have precious few things and like it that way! And, it's the thought that counts! 18:18, 4 December 2012 (EST)
Sure, Seligne! I understand and I like this idea of "living on a boat"! Take care! IBAlex 18:23, 4 December 2012 (EST)

Chiang Dao[edit]

Hi Seligne! I have a question about some of your edits on Chiang Dao page. Could you please let me know why some of the listings in section Sleep where deleted? [3]. Thanks! IBAlex 13:42, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Hi Alex! Sure! Here are some of the explanations I made to my edits at the time:

(cur | prev) 2012-12-30T15:57:35 Seligne (Talk | contribs | block) (11,784 bytes) (→Sleep: Removed Malees to incorporate it into a second entry) (undo)

(cur | prev) 2012-12-30T15:50:30 Seligne (Talk | contribs | block) (12,039 bytes) (→Do: Consolidated entries, alphabetised, put entry in listing format) (undo)

(cur | prev) 2012-12-30T15:31:40 Seligne (Talk | contribs | block) (11,888 bytes) (→Sleep: Removed dup entry for Mon & Kurt's Guesthouse as it has a prominent entry elsewhere and only one entry is permitted) (undo)

In a nutshell, as I recall there were a handful of establishments in town that listed themselves in both Drink and Sleep. I consolidated them, in Sleep as I recall, moving info from Drink in order to do so.

Your question raises some questions in my mind:

1. You can certainly see the explanations given for removals, right? I am aware that deleting an entry is verboten without a good reason AND an explanation. So I give an explanation every time.

2. Is my reading of WT policy correct: that establishments should not, e.g., enter themselves in Drink, and Eat, and Sleep?

--seligne 19:02, 8 January 2013 (EST)

Thank you for your answer, Seligne! Please know I'm always confident of your edits but one of the users had some concerns and posted them on WT Shared Travelers' Pub [4]. Therefore I asked you about that just to make sure I correctly understood your intentions. And yes, you are right:
  1. Your edits have explanations, thank you for that.
  2. Absolutely correct! The establishment has to choose the right section to post the listing. Exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis if, for example, a hotel has a famous, separately named bar or restaurant that also draws significant numbers of non-resident customers.

Again, thank you for reaching back to me. Please let me know how is it going with administrating the site, any problems? I'm ready to help. Warm regards, IBAlex 19:28, 8 January 2013 (EST)


As you already know, many admins that were formerly active here at Wikitravel have left for pastures new in the last year.

Although IBadmins fight a heroic battle against spam, I believe we need more admins from the community.

Would you support my application to be an admin?

I believe I know current polices as well as anyone currently active. --118dot93dot73dot30 02:12, 14 April 2013 (EDT)

Support! 03:24, 14 April 2013 (EDT)


Hi Seligne! How are you doing? Travelling at the moment? We haven't seen you here for a while and we really miss your contributions. warm regards, IBAlex (talk) 20:19, 27 June 2013 (EDT)

Seligne is active at another travel guide in the wiki style, Alex. (Censorship is not a very effective tool in countries that do not have an effective national firewall like China and in the age of social media and search engines. When people do find out, they often react more negatively than if there had been no attempt to bamboozle them in the first place). --W. Franke-mailtalk 15:43, 30 June 2013 (EDT)