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User talk:Sapphire/Archive 2006

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Hey Sapphire[edit]

I'am a newbie i need to know the Bengels will win right? lol Traveler2006 14:30, 28 March 2006 (EST) not joking anyway want to help clean some work? Traveler2006 14:30, 28 March 2006 (EST)

  • I need to know the Bengals are going to win myself. Just tell me what you need help with and if I can I will. I'm normally working on Wikitravel, even when I'm not logged in so just leave a message. Later. Sapphire 14:41, 28 March 2006 (EST)

Ok Sapphire sure i need help on pretty much everything I have done.

Traveler2006 14:43, 28 March 2006 (EST) thanks

Reference material[edit]

I like this one: Wikitravel:Namespace index. -- Ilkirk 22:08, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Tell you the truth. I knew something like this had to exsist (I didn't know officially until you brought it up.), however, it almost seems impossible to ever find anything that I need to know by using the search engine. I plan on using that reference thing I set up so I can quickly find info that I'm going to need all the time. It will be something condensed that way anything that I find useful in the future can be copied and pasted there. Kind of like a Reader's Digest of WikiTravel policy and programming. Sapphire 23:48, 29 March 2006 (EST)

Milan image[edit]

Re. User_talk:Rmx#Milan image: Honestly, no. In this case I just bumped into the article and noticed an image was missing. I have, however, added images to the Philippines, for instance, reponding to the request for images. Ricardo (Rmx) 07:06, 1 April 2006 (EST)


Thanks for fixing the link to 'what is an article' WindHorse 4 April 06

No problem. Just happened to have caught it. Sapphire 23:28, 3 April 2006 (EDT)


What is this contraption?

Rail travel[edit]

I suppose they could be separate articles, but I think the information for Canada, the US, and Mexico would fit well into just one. Sadly there just isn't that much to tell (especially Mexico), and there's a fair amount of overlap, so it makes sense to me. For example, I live as close to Ontario as to Illinois, so if I were looking into taking a rail trip, seeing both Canadian and US routes listed in the same place would be helpful. - Todd VerBeek 09:16, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Right, that's was my concern too, but I seperated them because Evan saw it turning into something like that, but there seems to be only one noteworthy rail passenger service in Mexico and very little passenger service in Canada. The US is the bulk of the information. So should I merge them back and then VFD Canada and the US articles? Sapphire 09:24, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
I'd favor merging them back into the NA article, but leave the US/Can articles as redirects to it. I'm going to propose that on Talk:Rail travel in North America. By the way, you mentioned commuter trains before: I think that should be left to the "Get around" sections of local articles. - Todd VerBeek 09:50, 7 April 2006 (EDT)
Alright. FYI: I didn't want to add the commuter information. I thought it was the only possibility we could make the Canadian article revelant by itself. Sapphire 09:54, 7 April 2006 (EDT)


I can answer your Brabant question: Brabant isn't yet a page. The software can't tell that Brabant is in Belgium, and Belgium in Europe, etc., if there's no page for Brabant in the first place. Maybe you need to add it? You might also want to check Special:Whatlinkshere/Leuven to make sure that you placed that city correctly. --Evan 12:02, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Actually, I did that, and changed the isIn to Flemish Brabant, which does in fact exist. --Evan 12:03, 8 April 2006 (EDT)
I realized what I did also. I copied and pasted the name of the region, but I only copied the "Brabant" not the entire "Flemish Brabant." Thanks for the information. I'm going to keep an eye out in case that ever happens again. Although, I have another Q. Let's say that something similar happens with an geographically superior article and that article hasn't been created. If I create that article and do I have add a {{isIn|Whatever country}} before a geographically lesser article like a city recognizes it is in the "superior" article's region? I hope that made sense? Thanks again. 12:09, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Another Q for anyone[edit]

I've been trying to notify User:Shalom Alechem that the images he uploads need to be CC-BY-SA, however, my requests for him to ensure he releases the images under the license seems to go unheard. What should we do? I hope we don't delete them, because a lot of them look great, but wouldn't be able to use them, right? Sapphire 12:15, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Wikitravel:Bug reports[edit]

Hey could you add you link-moving bug to Wikitravel:Bug reports and include what browser/OS you're using? Thanks! Majnoona 15:29, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Done. Sapphire 15:37, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

external links[edit]

Hi Sapphire!

You are reformatting all the external links!? Is there a policy how they should look like? Can't find it... --Flip666 20:43, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Yeah the policy can be found here Wikitravel:External_links. I forgot the name of section to look under, but the reason we try not to use links like this [[|CNN]] is because when it is written like this the link shows up first and it is harder for some to understand what they are looking at (I believe this is for the users of PDA and printed versions). Instead, we use '''CNN''' [], because it allows users to know the link is for CNN and then it shows the link if they decide to use it. That latter link is generally easier for people to use and more in style with Wikitravel style. Sapphire 20:51, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Tornado map[edit]

I wasn't aware of your comments attached to Image:TornadoAlley.png until now. See Talk:Tornado safety#Tornado Alley map for the discussion that led to me changing the map. - Todd VerBeek 17:18, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

Right, I read already read that discussion, but I seemed liked that you hadn't even noticed my comments and I thought it was funny that both you and I advocated for the same FOAA illustration with a day or two of each other. Sapphire 17:48, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

What is a "permanment link?"[edit]

Can anyone tell me what a "permanment link" is? It appears when visiting destination articles in the tool box located directly below the search field. Sapphire 19:10, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

My understanding is that it used to not be possible to link to the current version of an article such that the link would still produce the exact same page even if someone edited it. For example, if I create an external link to, someone looking at that link after it has been edited will see a different version of the page than what I linked to. To allow a way to link to a page as it exists now the "permanent link" feature was added. Thus I can link to and anyone who clicks on the link will see exactly what I saw when I chose to link there. -- Ryan 19:47, 13 April 2006 (EDT)
The reason I asked that is because I accidentally hit that button about a week ago - I've fogotten which page I hit that for - so will it affect that article that I hit that button on? Or is it something like this? I hit the button and it refreshes the page but instead of something displaying the normal link like this - the article refreshes and displays in the address bar this address - I would check my theory out but I'm afraid of messing something up. Sapphire 20:21, 13 April 2006 (EDT)
"Accidentally hit that button" and did what? I don't think you can really screw anything up - it links to a permanent link to the current latest version of an article, so if you go to that link and then choose edit you're still editing the latest version of the article. The purpose of having the link is solely so that you have a way of getting a link that will permanently link to a version of an article, so it is useful only in a "someday in the future I want to see this version" kind of way. -- Ryan 20:51, 13 April 2006 (EDT)
And the light comes on... That makes sense to me. I hit the button and just clicked immediately out of the article. I was trying to leave the scene the crime as soon as possible. I just clicked on it on my user page so I understand now. Thanks for the help. Sapphire 20:56, 13 April 2006 (EDT)

I thought[edit]

You were quitting for the night!

Also, are you having login problems? I don't see you as logged in. --Evan 02:41, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

I thought and was hoping to be quitting for the night, but that did turn out very well! :) I was watching the Travel Channel and started to do more research on travel topics and national parks. I haven't tried to log in again. I cleared the cookies and it logged my out.


Hey, your connection to IRC is working. I did see your text, but I didn't get back to the computer until you signed off. :) --Dawnview 16:39, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

BTW, here in Canada beer is still served by the pint, not by the .5l --Dawnview 16:45, 19 April 2006 (EDT)
Thanks. I wasn't sure if I was doing in correctly. I decided at the last moment that I was. Thanks for the info on pints in Canada, but can I ask does Canada use the imperial system, because U.S. pints are a little less than 0.5 liter or the Imperial pint which is more than 0.5 liter?
I would say, because of our history (and because other things like teaspoons are Imperial) that we use Imperial pints. That's just an educated guess though. Of course that would probably mean that we import all our pint glasses from the UK rather the US, which doesn't make any sense. I should do a survey of bars over the next few months and find out. :) --Dawnview 17:11, 19 April 2006 (EDT)
I don't think you have to go that far, but if you want to go ahead and - Plunge forward! When you come to a conclusion let me know. :) Sapphire 17:15, 19 April 2006 (EDT)
It also occurred to me that maybe we make our own pint glasses. We do after all have enough beer drinkers for that market. On the other hand, maybe the bars switched to US pints, figuring nobody would notice, then they could give us less beer at the same cost. That is after all why the British had a different system for the colonies. Either way it's a pint, not 0.5l. :) --Dawnview 19:50, 19 April 2006 (EDT)
I volunteer to investigate this matter. --Evan 21:55, 19 April 2006 (EDT)
I truly admire your bravery Evan! Sapphire 22:29, 19 April 2006 (EDT)

Re: Milford[edit]

No, sorry, I went to St. X. I have a common Vietnamese last name. – Minh Nguyễn 03:56, 26 April 2006 (EDT)


Hellowww wir fahrn nach Lodz, Thanks for your welcome at german Wiki Robert Wolfgang Schuster 18 july 2006

Bitte schön! Der Lodz Artikel auf der Wikitravel DE ist nicht sehr gut, aber der englische Artikel ist sehr gut. Wann fahren Sie nach Lodz? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 19:34, 18 July 2006 (EDT)
"Heiioo wir fahrn nach Lotz" war zu meiner zeit ein vielgesungener Schlager (Hit). In Lodz und Budapest waren damals die schönsten (und blligsten)Bordelle und Frauen und wir waren mit unseren österreichischen Schillingen sehr willkommen. Werde wohl nie mehr hinkommen.

Weisst du dass im Jalapão (Tocantins)eine heimliche polnische Kolonie ist, noch aus der komunistischen Zeit. Danke für die Antwort Robert Wolfgang Schuster 19/07/2006

Thank you for your kind words Sapphire. Snecklifter 08:54, 6 October 2006 (EDT)


Thanks for your welcome, Andrew. Nice to know humans are watching, too. Bis bald, FrankBusch 00:45, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

Kein problem! Haben Sie unserer deutscher Version besucht? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:18, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

Inter Railing[edit]

It depends when i get to Pamplona i would idealy like to get there fore the Bull Run on the 13th, this would then give me time to get to Berlin by the 15th. I have been offered a place to stay in Berlin i think!

Do you know somewhere good in Barcelona or Madrid? Yeah would like to spend some time there, would prefer Madrid.

Thanks for the help JossDude 11:42, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

Rail in Cuba[edit]

You asked about the rail company - it is Ferrocarriles de Cuba.

Did you know that Cuba was one of the first countries in the world to have a railway ? (Before even Spain - of which it was a colony at the time).

Also, the electric Hershey Railway has been described as the last interurban still operating. (Though it now mainly uses railcars imported from Spain).

-- Beardo 19:28, 5 May 2006 (EDT)

To clarify - the Hershey Railway is part of Ferrocarriles de Cuba, which runs all normal passenger services. [There are a few tourist specials - a lot of these are attached to former sugar mills, and so I think are run my Minaz - the Ministry of Sugar.]
I don't think that there is an official website yet. A useful resource is, also see
Thanks for clarifying about 411 - I did wonder. -- 21:03, 8 May 2006 (EDT)

Ko Phai[edit]

Hi Andrew You created Ko Phai. Where exactly is this place? Can you add an isIn and a template to it? Thanks. — Ravikiran 07:37, 7 May 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew! All the informations in the old districts (e.g. Berlin/Schoneberg aren't in the new districts but the links to the old ones are disabled. So the new districts like Tempelhof-Schöneberg are empty. Could you check if I transfered the content? I was only able to copy and paist the content. Not that we lose that hard worked content if there is any 11:13, 15 May 2006 (EDT)

San Francisco harbor tours[edit]

Looks like on 26 April, you put a vfd marker on San Francisco harbor tours, but never put a note on Wikitravel:Votes_for_deletion. Do you want to go ahead do that? I would, but I imagine since you put the vfd on there, you'd give a better explanation than I can come up with right now, which is "this doesn't need an article." -- Jonboy 15:33, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

Oops, it's there now. -- Jonboy 15:54, 16 May 2006 (EDT)

your message[edit]

hello there, thank you for your message. I am extremely flattered and surprised that someone would want to use one of my images. If you could kindly send me an email then I can give you more private information, don't really want to post it on a public forum since I like to keep my discretion, I hope you understand.... my email link is functioning, I just checked it myself. with kind regards <font color="red">Gryffindor</font> 22:08, 17 May 2006 (EDT)[edit]

Thanks for the help. This is a stubborn one. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 21:25, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

No problem. I just came up with the welcome message. I think the idea of a fine frightens them away. Also, they don't seem to realize that we record IP addresses. A couple of times I've fired off letters to ISP of the vandals and spammers and after being contacted by the ISPs and my emails they normally cease. We have to fight them on a united front. :) - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:28, 23 May 2006 (EDT)

Anywherebuthere's answer[edit]

Brian Hey, i am not out of highschool yet, but when i turn 18 i am going to take a trip with my friends (i am 17 still). I have a shot at Georgetown, but valedictorians get turned down there and i am not one, so it's a crapshoot. I guess most schools like that are. anyways, when i have a bit more time i will update the air courier page, just i am starting exams soon. cheers


Hi Andrew. Thanks for the note re: the location of the latest bored student. For the most part the vandals on this site are harmless, and while they're sometimes annoying it's pretty easy to revert changes and let them get bored. Wikitravel:How to handle unwanted edits has some guidelines, but my personal opinion is that it's best to ignore them or possibly drop them a note if they come up with something particularly clever (Wikitravel:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense is a good collection of the occasional gem). Most of these folks are looking for attention and/or a challenge, so the best way to get them to stop is to make it clear that they really don't bother us in any way. And honestly, having now reverted probably hundreds if not thousands of vandal changes, it really doesn't bother me - if I don't do it, someone else will, and in the end nothing changes for the worse. -- Ryan 00:40, 26 May 2006 (EDT)

Right. I just thought it was a little funny when I inserted the IP address and it popped up with that. I normally don't bother with the vandals, however, as we've had Willy on Wheels impersonators of late I've been taking extra care to watch anon edits. I actually found one vandal particularly amusing so I redirected his entire work - Mars to the bad jokes collection.
I was actually quite suprised by the effectiveness of my note to a vandal in Costa Rica. It worked so well I actually got an apology email from him.
Plus, harassing the vandals has a psychological benefit for me. :) - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:24, 26 May 2006 (EDT)

On São Paulo pictures[edit]

Will contact them - but the biggest chance is that the pic is actually public domain already, since I doubt they took the pic themselves, thus probably getting it from the municipality. Otherwise, I'll get my lazy ass out there and take the pics myself, since the building is amazingly beautiful :) Cheers! Mattalves 23:57, 26 May 2006 (EDT)

One more thing - what license should I use if the picture is issued by the brazilian goverment, which makes them public domain? Thanks! Mattalves 00:03, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

OK, will check that as soon as possible! If I manage to get hold of any similar pic that's public domain, I'll substitute it. Mattalves 00:07, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

jelly doughnut & splurge hotels in Berlin[edit]

Hi Andrew! Everything ok without? You can't be serious with that text about JFK and why you deleted half of the splurge hotels in Berlin? The Interconti, Adlon etc are a good adress. Please change it back. Have a good evening, Jan 17:22, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

I actually only moved the hotels to the Berlin/Mitte district. I figure it would be nicer to somewhat clean up the article. I'm going to try and move some of the Budget hotels/hostels into the district articles. I'm going to move the Adlon back in, because it is a very interesting hotel - Michael Jackson dangling children out the window and all - but it will also be in the Mitte district. Cheers. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 17:29, 29 May 2006 (EDT)


I hope for some more interesting travelling post death. You're right, although I claim a variant on adulthood meaning "the moment one becomes an adult!" Hypatia 05:36, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Admin Nomination[edit]

Please see I hope you will accept.


Hi Andrew - Just a note regarding your comments on the vfd discussion for Image:Gbrandt.KohPhiPhi.TonSaiBay.Oct2005.jpg:

Delete, because there is no information about the license. The uploader doesn't have " an email this user" link and he hasn't been around since November. If someone really wants to keep this I suspect the uploader is an editor on Wikipedia and someone could attempt to find him there.

I agree that not having license info is a problem, but up until recently it wasn't being stressed that all images required an explicit license release, so we have hundreds (possibly thousands) of images without an explicit license statement. My sense of things is that the unwritten rule is that new images should have a license statement, but for old images a lack of license release isn't considered grounds for deletion unless the image is found elsewhere (and thus a likely copyvio). As a result, since there was no consensus to delete this image it looks like it will be kept around for a while longer. -- Ryan 17:35, 1 June 2006 (EDT)

Alright, I'm a little hard when it comes to copyrights and licenses and I'm going to ease up. I've been thinking about it. If the creator uploads the image to Wikitravel he/she is there by releasing the image under the CC-BY-SA license, as there is a disclaimer directly under the edit box, which reads: "Please note that all contributions to Wikitravel are considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0."
Since noticing that disclaimer I no longer had an issue with deleting or keeping the image, because by uploading the image the creator released it under CC-SA 1.0. - Sapphire

Paris for You[edit]

I had to contact The Paris Convention and Visitors Bureau to find out if the guide was still published and if there was a online version. This guide book is published by the official tourism agency is hugely useful and should be added to the Paris article at some point.



Sometimes you have to manually hit the wikitravel cache over the head. Go to the web page in question, and click the "history" tab. Then edit the URL in your browser and replace "history" with "cache" and hit enter to fetch that web page. The cache gets flushed and you get the most up-to-date version. I did that with the forex page, and it's all betah now. -- Colin 03:43, 2 June 2006 (EDT) Noted. Thanks. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:47, 2 June 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew - I've removed the "For other places with the same name, see Orleans" from Orleans (France) since we normally only link to disambiguation pages in the case of "most famous" destinations, such as Paris (which links to the Paris (disambiguation) page using the {{otheruses}} template). It can probably be assumed that someone visiting the Paris (Texas) article wasn't looking for Paris, France, so pointers to the disambiguation page usually aren't needed. I think this is spelled out in Wikitravel:Article naming conventions, but I haven't had coffee yet and might be way wrong. -- Ryan 11:58, 3 June 2006 (EDT)

...and now that I'm looking at it more closely, we seem to have Orleans and Orleans (disambiguation). Wikipedia says that this one meets the "most famous" rule, so I'll go ahead an un-disambiguate. Ignore the above! -- Ryan 12:06, 3 June 2006 (EDT)

You're welcome[edit]

I too need to download IE7 sometime and see what happens... — Ravikiran 15:09, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

I normally dislike sleek looking programs, but I must confess IE 7 is rather enjoyable and much easier to use than IE 6 was. It took me less than 25 seconds to understand it's format. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:11, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

Image credit[edit]

This is what you need to type to use the template.

{{Template:Imagecredit| credit= <<credit>>| captureDate=16 March 2005|location = Mumbai, India | source=[[Wikipedia: Image:GatewayIndia.jpg | Wikipedia ]] |caption=Gateway of India|description=The '''Gateway of India''' is Bombay's most recognizable symbol. The foundation stone was laid in 1911 to commemorate the visit of King George to India. It was completed in 1914. }}

Not terribly user friendly, I'm afraid, so I decided to wait till Evan did some magic with the Inputbox extension before pushing strongly for its use. — Ravikiran 07:49, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

Hopefully, with the magical powers it will be more user friendly. I kind of like it, but one thing I was wondering is what about the license declaration? Shouldn't that be incorporated somewhere? - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 07:56, 9 June 2006 (EDT)
It did have a license declaration. I took it off today because now the upload form asks you for a license and displays the license prominently on the page. So asking for a license again seemed redundant. — Ravikiran 08:05, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

Directing people to Shared[edit]

I'm not sure we're really ready to start actively directing brand-new users to upload images to Shared instead of EN. Since we don't have a working mechanism in place yet for deleting files there, and it's not getting monitored very closely yet, we could end up with a lot of files that we have to go back through and purge. Plus there isn't much of a support structure there for clueless newbies. - Todd VerBeek 10:49, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

I see your point and I'm actually a little concerned about the person I just directed there, but I also make a point to go to Shared almost hourly to see if there are new users. I created a welcome message over there to prevent copyvios and such. Also, in my hourly visits I double check any images uploaded to make sure they are appropriate and are not copyvios. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 10:55, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

About Cúcuta[edit]

You posted at Cúcuta Wikitravel "Can anyone translate Spanish into English?".

I just want to know what part of the article can't you understand.

Thanks.. Ricardo Ramírez

Thanks, but it seems the only words I had a problem with seems to have been fixed. "Alimentación" and "Comida Rápida" were the words I couldn't understand. What do they mean? Also, do you already have a user account? - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:11, 9 June 2006 (EDT)


FYI, I felt I had to rollback your change of a few minutes ago. We only do one change a day, and I'd just done today's not terribly long ago. Want to take on the "duty" for tomorrow and put the Hanover trivium in then? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:15, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Sure, no problem. I felt it was about time to off Hotel Adnis, because it had been on the Discover template since June 4, 2006. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:19, 11 June 2006 (EDT)
P.S. The one change a day principle is that official, or defacto policy? I tried to bring up the idea of prohibiting the removal of trivium from the queue when that specific piece of information had only been in the queue for two days, but if I remember correctly we never came to a conclusion. That would be the reason I went ahead and changed the queue, even though you had already changed the queue. I interpreted the vague principles of Discover requiring trivium from being in the queue at the very least two days and allowing the entire changing of the queue provided the previous trivia had been on the main page for at least a couple of days. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:33, 11 June 2006 (EDT)
Nevermind. I did a quick scan and saw where that was. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:35, 11 June 2006 (EDT)


Why is the blocklist empty?

See your talk page. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 12:55, 14 June 2006 (EDT)


If you do a diff of the latest edit(s) by a user on an article, you should see something like this:

Current revision
Sapphire (Talk | contribs | block)    [rollback]

So just click on "rollback" to revert. Jpatokal 21:50, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

Ah. Thank you. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:53, 15 June 2006 (EDT)
Is it only possible to rollback the last edit on a page with the button? - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:01, 18 June 2006 (EDT)
Rollback reverts all the most-recent consecutive changes by a single user. So if a single user made five consecutive edits to an article, rollback will undo all five. If User:John makes one edit, then User:Peter makes a second edit, then User:John makes a third edit, then User:John makes a fourth edit, then rollback will undo just the third and fourth edit. -- Colin 15:10, 20 June 2006 (EDT)
Alright, that makes sense. Thanks! - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:11, 20 June 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew - I'm sure it was probably just an oversight, but just a gentle reminder to make sure you update any articles that link to a destination after disambiguating. I think I've cleaned up all of the Carmel links. Welcome to the admin club, too - have fun trying to refrain from using all of your new magical powers! -- Ryan 22:29, 15 June 2006 (EDT)


Hello! Welcome to Wikitravel. If you want to specialize your experience you may want to consider editing your preferences. Please take a second to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines, but feel free to plunge forward and edit some pages. Scanning the Manual of style, especially the article templates, can give you a good idea of how we like articles formatted. If you're new to the whole wiki community look at the Wiki markup to get an idea of how to use the wiki markup. If you need help, check out Wikitravel:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub.


Just FYI, I had intentionally bypassed this article's trivium on the Template:Discover box. The problem is that, per our guidelines, articles with trivia getting posted to the box need to be in at least "Usable" shape -- which Husavik is not. Personally, I don't have a big problem with using things ranked "Outline" if they're still fairly complete (the transition between "Outline" and "Usable" is indistinct), but the Phallological Museum is the only content in the whole Husavik article. So that's why I'd been leaving it sit there. I don't see any point in undoing the mention now, but it's something you might want to keep in mind in the future. Either way, thanks for the help -- I was beginning to feel like I was the only person updating that template, and it's nice that someone else shows interest. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 11:53, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Oh, thanks for enlightening me. I hadn't checked to make sure Husavík was usable, yet. I assumed that you since you were doing such a great job on Discover that nothing less than usable would've been allowed on the list. I will double check in the future. - Sapphire


[1]. Heh. -- Colin 21:20, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

We're you trying to point out that I had use the {{otheruses}} tag for an article with French spelling and we don't have another article with the exact same spelling? In a fit of rage I gave up on trying to figure out the tag, but when Ryan came along and fixed my and OldPine's err I learned that I should've used {{otheruses|Orleans}}. Is that what you were pointing out or did I miss something? - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:59, 27 June 2006 (EDT)
No, there's something else special in that diff. -- Colin 02:44, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
I spy a word that means 'large' and a word that the rhymes with 'um.' Is that what you meant? Oops. Did Ryan catch it or did he not notice it too? :? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 02:50, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
An anon fixed it two days ago. When I see that happen, I often go back through the history to find who did it to check that they didn't do any other vandalism. I was amused at how many people edited without noticing it. -- Colin 03:07, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
I'm a failure! According to Wikipedia Joan of Arc did actually have a rather large "bum." :} -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:12, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
That little trivium has been in the article since 20:18, 13 September 2005. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:22, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Santa Fe (New Mexico)[edit]

Your DotM language for the Main Page is just fine. It captures the nature of the place well and is terser than what's in the introduction to the actual article. It occurs to me that I had forgotten one little trivium when working on that article that may be fun to work into the DotM language; I'll experiment with that, but generally, there's no need for much change. Thanks! -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:32, 1 July 2006 (EDT)

Great. I scanned through the article and Wikipedia's article so I could write a good description. The city's architecture seemed like it was straight out of the "old world" and would be a draw. I like the way it reads now. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:29, 1 July 2006 (EDT)

Great minds...[edit]

Hey, take a look at Wikitravel:Script_nominations#AutotranslateBot, Wikitravel:Script_nominations#W66InterwikiBot, and Wikitravel:Feature_requests#Auto-translation_of_.27seed_content.27. I think we're interested in the same projects! Want to collaborate on these guys? Majnoona 14:29, 1 July 2006 (EDT)

A couple of things I can think of right off the top of my head (no scripting required):
  • Find me good examples of pages to translate (either to or from English), like Mobile which I never would have thought to check for a German version of
  • If you're interested in World 66 I could use some help QAing the output of my matching script.

Check out User:Maj/Sandbox for some starts... Majnoona 13:00, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the short list! You're quick! Majnoona 09:01, 3 July 2006 (EDT)
No problem. I do have a few other things that I wanted to mention, but I have to do a bit of research. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:05, 3 July 2006 (EDT)
Thanks for more headers... I dont think we need to worry to much about 2nd and 3rd level headers as they tend to be pretty non-standard... I'm going to switch my script around so it takes the headers from a wiki page instead of a text file so folks can contribute improvements as needed... I don't suppose you speaks Portugese or Spanish too ;-) ? Thanks again! Majnoona 22:10, 5 July 2006 (EDT)
Unfortunately, I only know a single word of Portugese and the Spanish I do know isn't very appropriate for Wikitravel. Rmx could help out on the Portugese. Give me two months and I'll help out on the Polish version. :) -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:48, 5 July 2006 (EDT)
Hey, could you take a look at Wikitravel:Script_nominations and add your vote if you support the W66 Interwiki link bot? I think you were one of the folks requesting the Interwiki links... thanks! 11:21, 13 July 2006 (EDT)
Just send me a list of articles you'd like translated and where you'd like the results (I can stick them under the article talk page for example). I'm just in the process of revamping the translation bot now that I have all the character encoding issues figured out... Maj 23:05, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
Quick update: the script is all set to go, but I'm having some issues with the character encoding (I thought I had it fixed, but errors are croppin' up when I translate to German...). I should have it running in the next day or two, at which point I can run through your whole list in just a few minutes. Sorry about the delay! Maj 09:20, 2 August 2006 (EDT)


i just don't understand why u have deleted teh link to the movies in sibria?! u have to know that not all people is cabale of buying things from the nearest video store or even buy books from amazons..not everyone here living in usa or erope..there is people who depend only on the net and nothing else.. if u can get resources from other places then that is good !


Let me double check what your are talking about so I can respond. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:43, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
Ok, the reason I deleted the links was because it was under the header "External links," which we no longer use on Wikitravel because "We should have travel information in Wikitravel, not linked to from Wikitravel. This is an incentive issue; if we have lots of links to other travel guides, we lose the impetus to create our own. In addition, many users print copies of Wikitravel articles, and therefore need information to be within the article rather than linked to at another site." Also, please read over Where did the External links section go?, which will explain why we no longer use that section. I'm afraid I'll have to delete the links again, however I'm willing to work with you. Are the movies really useful? If the movies are useful and informative, not just pure entertainment then please put the links in the "Understand" section and place a note on the talk page, ok? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:49, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
im sorry i thought u deleted the link for other reason..i see that wiki travel has stopped dealing with externel lnks..but teh question is does that solve teh problem..if someone bad wanna put anything bad ,if he didn't find externel link section , he will stop?i don't think so..but in anyway it is ok for me to put it in another section like understand..i m like teh others want to depend mainly on wikitravel articles..i want to be able to print the articles ..and for that i haven't linked to another article or something..i just linked to a movie...and for virus, i think vireses don't infect movies mostly executable files..linking to movies is safe..and i have linked to externel site and not the wiki itself becuse i want to save the bandwidth..the movie i have linked to is useful at leats for is travelouge..thanks for helping deepinlife
No problem. I feel I can't make a safe call on this either way, so I've asked other people what they think. We'll see what they say and then go from there. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 02:24, 2 July 2006 (EDT)
Please see discussion on Wikitravel_talk:External_links#Multimedia. Majnoona 13:07, 2 July 2006 (EDT)

Washington, D.C. redirects[edit]

Please do not change Washington, D.C. redirects. You're effectively creating double-redirects. I plan to arrange an all-out assault on D.C. later tonight and I will at that time fix the redirect pages. Thanks. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:37, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

I don't understand why is this a problem - before I changed the redirect pages, I resolved all the redirects that led to them; and the double-redirects would no longer be double-redirects in a few hours time?
(Pardon me for butting in here.) Don't do this. Going around and editing old discussions is not a good idea. It's a bit like running a modern spell-checker on the Shakespeare: sure it's more "correct", but it's not authentic. - Todd VerBeek 22:56, 9 July 2006 (EDT)
The reason it's a problem is because Wikitravel has a huge number of users each hour and I am currently waiting for the "down" time, before making any drastic changes that could throw off any potential users. Also, you didn't resolve the redirects because "Washington, D.C." is a redirect itself. If you look on the Talk page for Washington (D.C.) TVerBeek and I were discussing this earlier today and I'll be change the article name later, when it is least likely to adversely affect a fellow Wikitraveller. Thanks for attempting to help out, but unfortunately your enthusiasm got the best of you at the wrong time. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:58, 9 July 2006 (EDT)


I will take your advice and do that. SpokaneWilly 22:59, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Which advice? The email or archive or both? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:00, 9 July 2006 (EDT)

Images from Wikimedia Commons[edit]

You'd asked me about Image:Torun-Rynek-ratusz-2.jpg. I am author of this photo, I changed licence on Commons, can you tell me how to add licence info on Wikitravel?

By the way, I want all my images from Commons to be available to use also on WikiTravel, but unfortunately I uploaded many of them only under cc-by-sa 2.5 not 1.0. PiotrK 16:06, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks! Legally, we should be covered if you say this "I, hereby, release all of my images uploaded to any other media under cc-by-sa 1.0" (and any later variants of the Creative Commons license). If you type that I or anyone else can simply copy and paste that statement and use it for future reference. If you want you could copy and paste that statement and place it on your Commons user talk page or on either your Wikitravel user page. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 18:07, 10 July 2006 (EDT)


Kentwood is exactly 0 miles from Wyoming, which I think is about 0 km. They're across the street from each other. To be honest, I don't think Kentwood or Wyoming really even warrants its own article. These "suburbs" of Grand Rapids are so close to downtown and so connected with (the rest of) the city that the hotel and restaurant chains identify the franchises in them as "Grand Rapids" locations. The distinction is certainly meaningless to the traveler; the only people who know or care whether something is in the municipality of Kentwood, Wyoming, Grand Rapids, Walker, Grandville, or East Grand Rapids are the people who live there and the respective municipalities' tax collectors. If it were up to me, the contents of the article for Wyoming (Michigan) (and the others) would consist of "#REDIRECT [[Grand Rapids]]". Granted, as a resident of G.R. itself I'm a bit biased, but I think the recent tendency to turn Wikitravel into an atlas listing every possible legal municipality (instead of a travel guide with information about every destination) is misguided. Sorry for venting. To give you the practical geographic data you were looking for: Kentwood is the suburb to the immediate southeast of Grand Rapids; Wyoming is to the southwest, just west of Kentwood. Grandville is a little further southwest, contiguous with Wyoming, but not Grand Rapids itself. Walker is next (west and northwest), GR township (northeast), East GR (to the east), and you're back at Kentwood. - Todd VerBeek 22:38, 11 July 2006 (EDT)

Should we redirect? You're the expert and I'd trust you. I actually get a bit annoyed by suburbs being incorrectly lumped in with various large cities, but I do make room for exceptions particularly this annoying city we call Norwood in Southwest Ohio. If you picture Cincinnati as a large circle Norwood is another circle within the big circle. Is this one of those exceptions? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:45, 11 July 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew

I took a bit care of cotw and pcotw as it was it bit orphaned in the last two weeks. I have one problem in the pcotw with the Result section, therefore I was not able to show how many users did changes during the cotw for Budapest and Washington D.C.. Do you know how to make this link? Second: I was a bit surprised that Evan kicked in Odense and Cambridge as CotW in the schedule and not below as anybody else. I would like to bring the line up for the next weeks in a more democratic way, even if Evan had good reasons for it. Bermuda is on top of the list but nobody gave reason or signed it. I will bring it up because it is an interesting destination. Have a nice day, Jan 10:15, 12 July 2006 (EST)

Hi Jan, I'll try to fix every thing up, but I may do it later, because I'm a bit tired. I agree with Evan's move on Cambridge, because a very important wiki convention will be held there in the first week of August. I passed over Bermuda a couple of times when scheduling the CotW, because I was lazy and didn't want to see what was wrong with the article. Hopefully, I'll get around to it. Have a good day. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:22, 12 July 2006 (EDT)
Thanks for the result in pcotw. How you did it? Then I can do it in future and you get a bit more sleep ;-) Jan 04:49, 12 July 2006 (EDT)
All you have to do is go to the article, click on "history" and then copy and paste the url. After pasting the url to the PCotW page type this: [ 3 edits by two authors], which looks like this: 3 edits by two authors. The link shows my talk page history. Be sure you count only the edits between when someone places the CotW banner on the page and when someone removes the banner. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 13:50, 12 July 2006 (EDT)
Actually, the way I do it is to take the difference between the versions at the beginning and end of the Cotw period like this. — Ravikiran 06:58, 13 July 2006 (EDT)


Err, I hate to admit it, but I googled "bars Loveland Ohio" and since there were only three, I went ahead and listed them (since there's not much to be pickey about). Same for hotels. I figure that, when it's a small town with out much selection, a guide is more about 'what's there' than 'what's recommended'... It would be nice to have our 10kth article be as robust as possible... of course it would super-fantastic if you managed to stop by there personally, but that might be asking a lot Majnoona 19:57, 12 July 2006 (EDT)

I'll do it tomorrow and Sunday assuming we don't have any more tornadoes. I do have one question should I incoporate Symmes Township with Loveland? They're almost interchangeable. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 20:19, 12 July 2006 (EDT)

Actually, I'm back home now and I won't return to school until September. I'd say we should include Symmes Township. Even the areas near Fields-Ertel Rd. are part of the Loveland City School District, and at least two welcome signs now say "Welcome to the Communities of Loveland and Symmes Township", so visitors would be likely to spot the two together.

As for the Loveland Frog, 12 News has mentioned it a couple times, but people here don't ever mention it, since the sightings all happened so long ago. (And what's with that 1998 sighting in the Dominican Republic?) I think a mention about the Valentine's Day program would be more relevant.

 – Minh Nguyễn 23:57, 15 July 2006 (EDT)

I just heard about the mysterious frog today and was overwhelmed with curiousity. Unless, the frogman in the Dominican Republic was spotted at the island nation's own Loveland (Dominican Republic) I don't think it would count as the Loveland frog. Kind of an unusual grouping.
As for Fields-Ertle I was kind of grouping everything north of Fields-Ertle in with Mason (Ohio), but I really dislike the entire area, because I never know if I'm in Hamilton or Warren County. I was then grouping everything south of Fields-Ertle in with Loveland. What's your take on that? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:08, 16 July 2006 (EDT)
Ignoring its dips to the south near Union Cemetery Rd. and Montgomery Rd., Fields Ertel is the border between Hamilton and Warren Counties. I tend to think of the Kings area as part of Mason, since a Mason-address post office is located on the north side of Fields Ertel and it's a very commercial area, as opposed to most of Loveland.
Come to think of it, I'm not sure if the areas around Fields Ertel should be part of the Loveland or Kings school district. I thought they were part of the Loveland district because my Loveland bus had stops in the areas just south of Fields Ertel. But come to think of it, that bus also served students from outside the district in Goshen.
 – Minh Nguyễn 23:23, 16 July 2006 (EDT)
Now I'm confused too... if you search the USPS for locations near Mason, Ohio, and click on the location on Fields Ertel, it's listed as being the "Symmes Post Office", even though it's on the Warren County side and should thus be in Deerfield Township. I don't think anyone knows – maybe we should create a separate guide for the Kings area and link both the Mason and Loveland guides to that. – Minh Nguyễn 23:28, 16 July 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew, I mean to release those images under any version of the cc-by-sa. Meanwhile probably the image should be renamed. It's really a view from North Avenue. ;) -- Mark 01:03, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

I changed the license info on Shared to reflect that. I think it would be perfectly fine to leave the title as is, because it would be incredibly funny if someone walked around Chicago trying to duplicate your image and went to Oak Street instead of North Ave. Not to mention I don't want to mess wiht the hassle of uploading the image again and then fixing links on EN and DE. :) (I'm lazy) -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:20, 18 July 2006 (EDT)

Prague Addresses[edit]

Thanks Andrew! Such a beautiful place, such a messy article :) Thewayoftheduck 10:07, 19 July 2006 (EDT)


I dunno, maybe my eyes are bad. What the heck happened with this page? --Evan 21:54, 25 July 2006 (EDT)

A vandal copied David's user page and created a new account - User:OIdPine (notice the capital "I" (pronounced: eye), instead of the lowecase "L") and vandalized a bunch of articles. The vandal was posing as OldPine and Ryan blanked his user page. Someone noticing the blanking came along and reverted Ryan's blanking. To prevent that from happening again I just deleted the vandal's user page so if the vandal wants to pose as OldPine again he's going to have to copy and paste OldPine's user page again. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:49, 25 July 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew - regarding the comment you left on User talk:Wrh2#IFD, I posted a query a while back on Wikitravel talk:Images for deletion asking whether that page was being used now or not. If there was a discussion that led to a consensus to hold image deletion discussions on a separate page can you point me to it? I've obviously not been paying close attention, but I'd like to understand the reasons for having two separate pages for dealing with deletions. Thanks! -- Ryan 05:02, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Oops. I forgot to respond sooner (distracted on DE). I'm not sure where the conversation leading to the consensus is or if there even was one. I agree with you that it's tedious, but I was going about being a faithful servant. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:10, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
OK. I searched around and couldn't find any discussion about why that page was created, so I kind of assumed it was done to have an example to discuss and was then forgotten. If you don't object I'll move the images back to the VFD page since that's the page people are actually using and that's where the VFD template that's on all of the images points to, and if anyone comes along and can point out why we have an IFD page then the images can always be moved back there (and that person can update the images with the correct template :P ). -- Ryan 05:14, 28 July 2006 (EDT)
Works for me and I looked at the history. Todd created the page so maybe he can answer the questions about why it was created. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:15, 28 July 2006 (EDT)


So, I think we found a place to have the 10K party -- it's a pub about 4 blocks from the Wikimania main area. When will you be getting into Cambridge? We leave tomorrow, but we're doing the "Hacking Days" pre-event. Let us know. --Evan 21:45, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

Dayton and Sidney[edit]

... are the two cities of Ohio I have been in. Would you know which region of Ohio they'd come under? — Ravikiran 03:23, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

The folks in the Greater Cincinnati area consider Dayton to be in Southwest Ohio and so does Wikipedia. I'd never heard of Sidney so I had to pull out a map and my best guess would be Mid-Ohio for purposes of the isIn. Were you in Dayton for a flight? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:30, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
I had been to Sidney on a project. Dayton was the closest "big city" close by with an airport. — Ravikiran 05:47, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
I suspected you were in Dayton for the airport. I believe the only reason anyone lives in Dayton is because of the airport. I checked the Ohio article and it describes Mid-Ohio as a region around Columbus I think that description is a bit too narrow and should incorporate the straight area across Ohio, unless someone brings to my attention that there is another region that Sidney belongs to. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:52, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
Well, it is the "birthplace of aviation" after all... :) — Ravikiran 06:47, 1 August 2006 (EDT)
Hmm. I've never realized it would be fitting to have an airport in the Wright Brother's hometown. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 06:55, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


Did you intend to revert Jpatokal's revised choice of photo for Budapest on the main page, or were you aiming at the vandalism? Because I prefer the photo of the parliament building; it's easier to "read" at that small size than the landscape. - Todd VerBeek 09:18, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

I was aiming for the vandalism. I've reverted my reverting of the photo so we have the parliment building on the main page again. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 09:28, 1 August 2006 (EDT)


Yes I do live there. Why do you ask? :) CandleWithHare 13:16, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

In fact my goal is to improve the Warsaw page so that there won't be any need for further questions :) but OK, I can be one. From what I've read it'll take a little time to describe it properly on my user page so I'll add myself when I am ready. Thanks for thinking about me. CandleWithHare 13:35, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Ohio Regions[edit]

Todd gave his blessing to the Ohio cleanup, so if he's OK with a regions-delimited-by-county-border breakdown then I think we're probably OK with the Ohio cleanup. I think the isIn's for Northeast Ohio are OK, so I'll have a go at moving Northwest Ohio and getting those isIn's cleaned up when I get a chance. I assume you'll probably want to start with Southwest Ohio, so that leaves Southeast Ohio for whoever gets to it first. Also, it might be good to add a specific note to Wikitravel:Article naming conventions to emphasize that region names should be common names, and that since no one goes to "Southeast" it's really not a common name. I'll do that now. -- Ryan 19:12, 1 August 2006 (EDT)

Sysop on de[edit]

Hi Sapphire,

I've nominated you on de:Wikitravel:Nominierungen zum Administrator. Would you like to comment there? -- Steffen M. 08:26, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Yes, thank you. I will in a day or two, because I don't have my computer with me so I am unable to spend much time on the net. Thanks. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 11:40, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Keeping an eye[edit]

I have a very simple way of keeping an eye on what 4,500 newspapers say about Wikitravel -- I have it set up as a custom keyword on Google News. You can even set it up to send alerts to you when new articles appear. Jpatokal 11:34, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

Cool thanks. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 11:40, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
You've been quoted in the Guardian! [2]. — Ravikiran 14:53, 10 August 2006 (EDT)
Well actually, the Hindustan Times (the same one that plagiarised me) syndicates about half its editorial page from the Guardian. This one came in today's newspaper. Then I had to go to the Guardian's homepage and search for Wikimania to get the link — Ravikiran 15:25, 10 August 2006 (EDT)
Did they (Hindustan Times) ever resolve the image issue? So you actually saw my comments in the Hindustan Times? -- Sapphire 15:34, 10 August 2006 (EDT)
Yes that is where I saw the article first. Nah they didn't even bother to acknowledge my mail. — Ravikiran 03:21, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Warsaw question as part of CotW edits[edit]

Just doing a bit of CotW work on Warsaw and as your docent I'm wondering if you can help me a bit here- I noticed that there's a large section on the Warsaw#Royal_Walk and was hoping to shift it off to the appropriate district in it's entirety, and then just leave a small description linking to it in the see section. Problem is, which district is it best to put it in?

Also, any chance of slimming down the number of districts here? Or are they all worthy of articles? Tim 08:22, 8 August 2006 (EDT)


There's really no need to create a bunch of useless pages like Cincinnati, OH and then redirect the page to Cincinnati. Most people simply type in "Tampa" and they get the page they want. -- Sapphire 20:34, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

Well, I created redirects for names that I personally linked to and got a redlink on. I'm probably not the last person who will link to or search on the common name City, State form rather than the City only or the weird City (State). So I thought I'd help later visitors out with the redirects. It's standard practice and encouraged on Wikipedia; is there a policy against that here? -- Beland 21:20, 9 August 2006 (EDT)
There's really no policy for or against it. It doesn't bother me, but it just seems kind of pointless especially for big cities. I understand when people accidently do this for very small or less famous places, but for Boston I think most people think - Boston, not Boston, Massachusetts or Boston, MA. Policy is if there is another Boston in Kentucky to name the Boston, Kentucky article Boston (Kentucky). -- Sapphire 21:27, 9 August 2006 (EDT)


I think there may be miscommunication as regards the "Concierge" proposal. As far as I can see, nobody has risen to the bait when it comes to a literal concierge-like function of an "arranger" of attractions, nor do I think anyone is likely to, for reasons I explained in my original comments on your idea. Rather, the "Concierge" function seems to be that of a general-purpose information getter -- sort of a Wikitravel:Docent without specialization. Do you use Wikipedia? The analogy to the Wikipedia reference desk seems appropriate. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 22:33, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

Do you love skyline chili[edit]

It's a small world. I used to live in Cleveland and visit Cinci quite often. My family is also originally from Poland... and you want to live there. I'm visiting Poznan in Sept. Also, we're both travel lovers. Who knew  :-) Thanks for your thoughts about World Wikia Gil.

No I'm neither a Skyline or a Gold Star fan. I really shouldn't say that, because of recent laws passed in Ohio I could be deported to Indiana for making such an apostatizing declaration. Cleveland, eh? The Browns suck! Go BENGALS! -- Sapphire 13:50, 10 August 2006 (EDT)

Images to Shared[edit]

You're doing it manually? For chrissake, ask Evan to whip up a script or something... but anyway, my images are all GFDL + CC-by-sa-all. Jpatokal 06:33, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

What can I say I need my fix of "wikicrack." -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 22:04, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Other articles to shared[edit]

Hi, Andrew. Sorry for the confusion I caused. What I meant here is that some pages that currently exist in English Wikitravel have to be moved entirely to Shared. Among such pages are the liaison reports and tech pages, that should no longer exist as such in English WT. But instead of copying and pasting them to Shared, maybe we could just press the move tab up there and do the job more easily. I'm not sure if this move tab solution is possible and effective, so I'd like to know if you've tried that before and if you think that would work. Thank you, Ricardo (Rmx) 18:59, 14 August 2006 (EDT)


Do you care if I move Ulan-Ude to Ulan Ude? -- Sapphire 23:02, 12 August 2006 (EDT)

Maybe you could move into one of the river-side mansions and, while gazing over the Siberian plains, edit WT all day long. Give it some thought. WindHorse 13 Aug 06
Hmm. I might actually want to do that. How much does a mansion in Ulan Ude go for? Is it $13,000 or so? I've been looking into real estate in Russia and Georgia. -- Sapphire 23:12, 12 August 2006 (EDT)
Whoops - sorry for my dumb answer. I totally misread your question (which I thought was a joke). Sure, it's actually much better to have the city listed under the name without the hyphen. (Ps. if you like living in open, spacious areas, check out Mongolia. It's even cheaper) WindHorse 13 Aug 06
No problem. Have you lived in Siberia? If so is that a formal recommendation? I thought your answer was a little unusual or maybe you've been reading my mind. Hence the reason why I know what a newly built house goes for in Ulan Ude region. -- Sapphire
No, I haven't lived in Siberia, though I am familar with the country. Real estate is cheap. However, it is probably not available for non-Mongolian citizens to buy - you'd no doubt need to do so in partnership with a local. Anyway, good luck, and I hope you can find a piece of land that suits your needs. WindHorse 13 Aug 06

You're famous![edit]

Hi just thought I'd let you know that you were in an article in the Guardian yesterday. The links in Wikitravel:15_August_2006 -- Tim 07:17, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

I saw it on the Guardian website. Maybe they used the same article? Tres bizarre if it is, either that or you're incredibly famous! Tim 18:37, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

The right place for uploading images[edit]

I know that and I even have an account in shared. The problem is that I can't access it anymore. The password stored in my browser seems to be wrong and the password reminder facility is not working. I have filed a bug report but nobody seemed to be interested and I wanted to u/l this emblem before I forget. CandleWithHare 14:14, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

No, it's not the same password (although it should be). I know my password for en but it is an incorrect password for shared. I also cannot use the shared:Special:OpenIDLogin because I have opted to shared:Special:OpenIDConvert my account from en. So as you can see, I'm pretty much screwed up (I could create a new account though but I didn't want to do that) CandleWithHare 14:34, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
I'm going to mention this to User:Evan so he can fix the problem. -- Sapphire 14:36, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
Thanks! CandleWithHare 15:03, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
I have now discovered that the password reminder apparently works (although it outputs an error) and I've been able to log in. Sorry for causing such a mess. CandleWithHare 15:30, 15 August 2006 (EDT)
No problem. About half-an-hour ago I tried to have the site send you your password, but I didn't think it worked, because of the error. You'll probably want to change your password, though. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:32, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the Welcome[edit]

Thanks Sapphire. I am quite excited writing something related to my passion and my field of expertise if i may say so. I am learning the Wiki templates and tags. I would like you to check up my edits and give any suggestions or fedbacks you think are appropriate. Love & Regards, Yogi - Inasra

Access stats[edit]

You'll have to pester Evan if you want direct hit counts for articles, Webalizer only tracks the top ones and even that it does pretty badly. And as for titles, I'll take "Grand Poobah of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere" instead. Jpatokal 00:27, 16 August 2006 (EDT)

Simultaneous reverts[edit]

Sorry about that. I was trying to revert that garbage too. You beat me to it and it ended up looking like I put it back there on purpose?!?! Weird. Thanks though. Texugo 00:48, 17 August 2006 (EDT)

No problem. At first I was thinking about giving you a vandal warning and then proposing that you be banned for life, but I'm a nice guy so I'll give you another chance. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:14, 17 August 2006 (EDT)
Damn, and I put this on your user page too, instead of your talk page. Sorry! Texugo 00:48, 17 August 2006 (EDT)
No problem, but that's strike two. One more and I'll have to report you to the Wikitravel police.  :) -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:50, 17 August 2006 (EDT)


Review actually looks fine on IE6

IE 7 is kind of a catch-22. It doesn't log you out of Wikitravel as often as IE 6 does and it resolves the Sapphire| my talk| preferences| my watchlist| my contributions| log out moving around, but on the review site it causes the naigation, search bar, and other language bar on top of the article. IE also causes they toolbox to mysteriously disappear on review. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:44, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

Warsaw itineraries[edit]

My idea is that there should be five itineraries for Warsaw. I can not promise I'll finish them but I want to start the work by listing and grouping the sights:

These are the working titles and I still think they could be better, so I did not create any new article but instead used the already-existing Warsaw/Old Town and Warsaw/New Town articles (which I think are redundant and should eventually be set up as redirects to the respective itineraries).

So if you could help me, it'd be great if you could make up a better-sounding names for the articles and then we could create them and move the content from Old Town and New Town there.

CandleWithHare 11:19, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

Ok, so I wasn't expecting to be convinced, but you did an excellent job. I can definately help out with the Walking around the Contemporary Center of Warsaw itinerary. Maybe, I'm a bit of a moron because I lived in Warsaw for two months, but isn't the "Contemproary Center" the same thing as the "New Town?" I spent my entire time watching beautiful Polish women on a Three Crosses Square, near Nowy Swiat, which I thought was the "Contemporary Center" and the New Town? Would you happen to know if the sirens and black cars that always (10 times a day) sped by the Charles de Gual round the Polish president or prime minister? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 11:25, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
The name "New Town" is quite confusing as it actually is another Old Town, just north of the city walls. The Contemporary Center are things like the Palace of Culture and MDM (Marszałkowska Residential District) around the Constitution Square, the Stalin-style architecture that shifted the city center a little westwards when it was built in the 1950s. And the area where you were staying (Krakowskie Przedmieście-the New World Street-the Three Crosses Square) could be safely classifed as "along the Royal Road" (if you wanted to be more precise, it could be called Solec or Ujazdów too). CandleWithHare 11:44, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

So, the first itinerary is ready at Walking around the Old Town in Warsaw. How do you like it?
CandleWithHare 08:46, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

I already saw it and I like it. The only thing I'm thinking that's needed is a description of why were visiting certain sites. Unfortunately, during my two months in Warsaw I only went to the Old Town once, so I'm very ignorant about the Old Town. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 08:57, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Template creation attempt![edit]

Well, I've bashed out a rough version for the wording of the Template:usablepark - how do you get the border round it, or is that a trick of the wiki software we're using? I tried importing it into my sandbox, but all I get is this -

This is a usable article. It has information about the park, for getting in, about a few attractions, and about accommodations in the park. An adventurous person could use this article, but please plunge forward and help it grow!

I know the wording isn't great... What can I say? I'm a scientist! I'm sure someone will fine tune the words... -- Tim 13:19, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

Right, that lot is done, but could you just have a check of the wording at some stage - there's bound to be something that I haven't mentioned! Tim 15:27, 18 August 2006 (EDT)

Login problems[edit]

Thanks for the notice; I got the message and was able to clear up the problem. --Evan 09:20, 19 August 2006 (EDT)

Sorry, if you had already known about it, however, since it was 5 AM for both you and myself on a Saturday I figured you might be asleep, especially since you're leaving for Odense soon so I figured it'd make more sense to send an email off to the IB account you told me about. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:40, 19 August 2006 (EDT)


I was intending to add the vfd template to the pages that CandleWithHare had added to the vfd page... Guess I must have been doing too much at the same time if I put it in the wrong places! Tim 00:30, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

Right, I've cleared up that little mess... plus I have mentioned to CWH that he should have put the template on the pages. Tim 00:35, 20 August 2006 (EDT)
I've done it too. It's those damn redirects. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:46, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

Answers to your philosophical questions[edit]

I thought I'd take some time out to answer your questions:

  1. The Bible is one of two things - it is either a book through which God speaks to his people (the church) or it is a historical document compiled by the Church. It cannot be anything other, as the Bible has existed since within a generation of the death of Christ - as the accurate details, prophecies of what happened in AD60 (Roman invasion of Jerusalem) and also the cliffhangers (Luke finishes Acts with Paul awaiting trial - he would never have done this as a literary device unless it truly was in the future, as he was writing a historical account) - and as such cannot have been written anywhere since.
    1. The Bible as the book of God - suppose God exists. If He is who the Bible deems Him to be, He has power over everything, and as such, He ensures only the true bits of the Bible get in. The Gospel of Judas doesn't get in, because it is not true/accurate enough for His liking.
    2. The Bible is a historical document compiled by the early Church - why would they not add a certain account of events to their account of Jesus' life? The obvious reason for this is that it is not an accurate account of their beliefs!
So the answer to your question is that it means nothing more to us than any other work of fiction....
  1. Antimatter? You've been reading too much Dan Brown! When it gets discovered, as a scientist, I'll give you my answer! Although science is merely the pursuit of knowledge, I do not believe it does not trump the safety of humans. The atom bomb, the most deadliest appliance of science and technology was used in an attempt to do the greater good.
  2. Personally, I believe that the freedom of though is a God given ability, and everything that is true can hold it's own in a direct confrontation. Whether it be religious, scientific or anything else, what is true can withstand scrutiny.
  3. Yes.

The final three were dumb answers, but if you want to chat about the first answer further, I'd be delighted to try and answer your questions. -- Tim 00:31, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

I've read some of Dan Brown's stuff and I think I may have read something about antimatter in his book, but the question itself was inspired by a discussion I had with a Ph. D. candidate in Munich and a National Geographic show which provided multiple end of the world scenarios.
It seems to me regarding the Gospel of Judas question that followers of many other religions have a somewhat easier time than Christians do, because they have certain prophets they believe in, while Christians have the same prophets as the Jews plus Jesus, but we several different view points of Jesus life and words that it seems its only natural to sometimes question authenticity. I've read what was left of the Gospel of Judas' codex and the story it offers is greatly different than other gospels. Aside, from the the differences relating to Judas' trustworthiness. The most amazing part of that gospel is it describes how God, or rather the "Infinite One" created itself. The gospel does not assign sex or a femine/masculine status to God. Furthermore, I'm a very bad Methodist, because I really don't buy into the trinitarian views and Judas' gospel backs up my hypothesis regarding the trinitarian views, but I may have incorrectly read the text.
I like this idea: "The Gospel of Judas doesn't get in, because it is not true/accurate enough for His liking." -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:46, 20 August 2006 (EDT)
In order to save your talk page from a deep discussion into something I know very little about other than what I have written above, I suggest you take a look at this article about the matter. -- Tim 00:59, 20 August 2006 (EDT)
Great article! Thanks for sharing it. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:19, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

A Shout Out[edit]

Yo, yo, yo. Time for a pat on the back for my Main Man Sapphire. Way to go still bustin' your hump on WikiTravel every day. Even the cheerleaders need to be cheered. OldPine 10:32, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks! I think this best describes my efforts on Wikitravel: "I obsess, therefore I am." -- An old tree. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 13:14, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
Ha! Trees of a bark, buddy :) Need more gems like you. OldPine 14:28, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Maps and shared repository[edit]

You dropped me a line suggesting I would be better off uploading my maps to the shared repository. I was under the impression, from reading through the various image policy pages, that the shared repository was mainly for non-language specific files and so anything containing chunks of language-specific text would be better off on the servers for that language version of Wikitravel. It's possible I've read it wrong, and it's equally possible that different rules apply for .png and .svg files, so I'd appreciate your input. --Paul. 14:40, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

I'd go ahead and upload all images to shared regardless if the image is language specific. The reason I suggest this is because it helps us maintain images easier and if someone wants to create a Japanese version of your map they won't have to switch between two or three versions to create the map, so having the images/maps on Shared makes it easier for someone to use your image, and then upload a new version. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:46, 21 August 2006 (EDT)
Sorry it took a while to get back. I'm working on the maps at the moment, so when the new versions are done I'll upload them to shared. Just to clarify, should I upload both .png and .svg files or just the .svgs? Thanks for the input on the maps issue, regarding concentrating on important streets, unfortunately the key sights in central Dalain are spread out along a number of different streets and it's not really possible to get more than a quarter of them on one map with any degree of deatil. I'm going to try splitting to article along district lines (I finally found a map of the districts online) and see if that makes things easier. --Paul. 18:10, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

IsIn - Portuguese[edit]

You helped me with this before so I thought I'd ask you first. I'm still having weird issues with IsIn sometimes. Two things:

  • Sometimes it only shows the current location plus one level above, instead of the whole chain of categories. I can't for the life of me figure out why. Compare Texas with Louisiana, for example. One shows "Sul : Texas" while the other one is complete: "América do Norte : Estados Unidos : Sul : Louisiana"
Here's one where it leaves off only the first one: Mata de Pinha. I'm also fairly sure I've seen it where it leaves out one in the middle before as well.
  • The other problem is that sometimes it just doesn't show up at all. Have a look at my attempt to locate Nigeria in África, for example. I started to get this theory that IsIn doesn't like to locate in places where the first character is unusual : Á, É, etc. I remember having trouble with locating things in Ásia as well, and Évora. I would test out this theory more thoroughly but the Portuguese server locks up now when I try to edit. I did look at the Spanish version, expecting to find the same problem, but it works fine there.

If you don't want to mess with this, I can always post it on the traveler's pub. I just don't think any regular of the Portuguese version site knows anything much about this. Thanks! Texugo 04:58, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

As to your first question, purging the cache will help. i.e. click on "edit" for that page, then in the URL, replace "action=edit" with "action=purge" like this. Make sure you click on the "article" tab again to see the isIn properly. — Ravikiran 05:15, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
The problem with that is there appears to be many pages where these problems appear, but also when I tried to clear the cache it didn't work. I changed the code of the IsIn and some of the problems have gone away, but not all of them. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:18, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
It also seems to help in some cases if you move the IsIn tag to the beginning of the article text. Texugo 05:23, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
Right, I discovered that a few months ago, but it doesn't seem to always work like it would on EN or DE. The weirdest part is everytime I change the pt:Template:IsIn I get closer to solving the problem. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:42, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
Thank you guys for your speedy attention. This has been driving me crazy. Texugo 05:43, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
Would you look at PT, now and tell me if you see any thing wrong? The only thing I can't figure out is Nigeria. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:49, 22 August 2006 (EDT)


The markup must or should look similar to this or exactly the same. Notice that there are no spaces anywhere seperating the templates and interwiki links, this appears to be somewhat critical in making sure the isin works. Also, notice that the isin is at the top of the template/interwiki list.

== Trabalhe ==

== Segurança ==

== Saúde ==

== Respeite ==

== Mantenha contato ==

-- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 05:57, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks a lot. You're a genius! 06:42, 22 August 2006 (EDT)


Thanks for setting up the {{ficaEm}} template too. That's great! --Ricardo (Rmx) 15:51, 23 August 2006 (EDT)

No problem. I like messing with stuff I know I can't screw up. :) -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:55, 23 August 2006 (EDT)


thanks for the link to the train travel in europe page! TedErnst 19:06, 24 August 2006 (EDT)


Thanks for the comments and advices on the Karimun page! GOHtk

Automagic templates[edit]

I'm afraid I didn't get any new e-mail from you (checked my junk mail and trash can folders now too). Could you please re-send it? I think that page will be a great addition to Portuguese Wikitravel. Thanks! -- Ricardo (Rmx) 21:07, 28 August 2006 (EDT)


You think you could get IsIn working for the Romanian version too? I'll be glad to insert them in a whole hell of a lot of articles, as soon as it works properly. Texugo 02:26, 30 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks a lot! That's sure to keep me busy for a while. In Romanian I think it should be EsteÎn, but I suggest you do that as a redirect, as you did with pt:, so that either one will work. Texugo 03:33, 31 August 2006 (EDT)

Lumnam Jone Photograph[edit]

thumb|Lumnam Jone River Way

To reply to your answer, I put photograph detail in the image summary. Please go to the image link.



Hi, you contributed versions of Image:Compass star emblem coolvetica logo.png. Is this image available in larger or vector format, suitable for print, e.g. PDF, EPS, SVG? What are the rules for its use on posters and brochures? If I need permission, whom or where should I ask? --LA2 04:32, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Images for hire[edit]

I don't know about Thai law and IANAL, but in most jurisdictions, it will be the business that owns the copyright, because it hired the photographer. — Ravikiran 14:42, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Yeah, thats what I thought too. I'll tell him to call the local Bar Association and ask them to be sure. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:46, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Kent moved to Kent (England)[edit]

I see you have made this move. I would have thought that Kent in England would qualify as most famous. But if not the move has left a large list of links, breadcrumbs, and user links that now point to the disambiguation page Kent and will need to be fixed. To be honest, I am not sure if it should be most famous or not, but with all the broken links I am inclined to go that way. What are your thoughts? -- Tom Holland (xltel) 21:31, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

Oops. I got distracted again. -- Sapphire 21:34, 9 September 2006 (EDT)
Whew! The change you made works for me.... I was just worried about all the work re-directing links. Ha! Thanks, I can sleep better tonight. -- Tom Holland (xltel) 21:53, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

Need help[edit]

I can restore your user page if you want. Or you can restore the last version of User:Sapphire and then undo the last revision which made it a redirect. -- Colin 01:33, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

Alright, I'm having problems restoring it. Thanks. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:35, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
I think the database was coughing up a hairball for a minute. Looks like Ravikiran_r got it. -- Colin 01:37, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
I had to switch from Firefox to IE. IE seems to be running faster too. I was a little scared once it was taking about a minute-and-a-half to deleted the pages. Thankfully, I didn't miss out on too much damage. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:40, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I'll be busy for a bit -- Colin 01:38, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I'll try to keep a watch out. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:40, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
I'll be there for some time. — Ravikiran 01:44, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
Great! I'll stay around as long as my eyes will let me. I need to go to work at 5:50, but I should get some sleep before that time. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:46, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

De-vandalizing the magic dragon[edit]

Thanks, Andrew; that was probably the fastest response to the Willy spammer yet. (I was actually in the middle of an edit when he/she/it struck.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:39, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

It wasn't a problem and I was rather slow reacting. I was doing recent changes patrol, but didn't want to jump in just then. Once you moved your userpage and talk page back I figured I might as well finish off the rest of the vandalism. -- Sapphire 18:45, 12 September 2006 (EDT)


There was a brief discussion about using "Small City" vs. "City" on MediaWiki:Newarticletext for new articles (see MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext) - since the "small city" template generally refers to the amount of info present, rather than the actual size of the city, it seemed to make more sense to use language that would encourage most people to choose the small city article template when starting new articles. I realize you were probably just trying to clear the site cache, but figured I'd leave a note here anyhow :) -- Ryan 22:44, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

Oops. I should've read more than than the first sentence. You've got it - I was only clearing the cache. -- Sapphire 22:59, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

Revert inquiry[edit]

Hi Sapphire, I added in some links to some of my hotel booking websites and you seem to have followed in my footsteps and deleted them all! What have I done wrong, the websites I added include current Guest Reviews which I thought travellers would find helpfull. Regards [email protected]

I did this because the links you provided are a violation of our external links policy. Current policy does not allow links to secondary or "non-primary" websites like a hotel booking service. We only allow a link to a hotel's own website. Please read over our External links policy page. That link will direct you to the "What not to link to" section, but if you scroll up and down you can read over the rest of the policy. I've also responded on your IP's talk page. -- Sapphire 13:47, 15 September 2006 (EDT)

Happy Birthday[edit]

Happy Birthday! — Ravikiran 07:55, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

Congratulations! It's all down hill from here ;) OldPine 07:28, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

Congratulations! Now you can actually have a beer legally right? — Ravikiran 07:55, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

ditto! Congrats. -- Tom Holland (xltel) 08:02, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

Always remember: "Beer before liquor, never been sicker. Liquor before beer, you're in the clear." Have a good one. -- Ryan 15:17, 16 September 2006 (EDT)

I'll try to address everything in order: Thanks! Uh oh! Thanks! Yes, however I did legally have alcohol at a younger age when I lived in Euroland. Thanks! I learned that the hard way (Partially the reason I missed my flight back to the US and stayed in the EU for an additional five months). Thanks! -- Sapphire 18:35, 16 September 2006 (EDT)
P.S. Thanks for the cake. -- Sapphire 18:35, 16 September 2006 (EDT)
Belated happy birthday from me. Congrats on turning this big milestone. --Evan 08:58, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Thai coup[edit]

I'm in Bangkok. State of emergency: no. Martial law: yes. ~ 23:54, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

Is there honestly a difference (tomāto, tomăto)? Ok, what do the coup leaders consider "martial law"? If venturing outside I won't be killed, because the media reports that tourists and residents are having their pictures taken with the troops in front of tanks. I'm sure if I to walk up to the parliment building I'm going to have problems. -- Sapphire 00:03, 20 September 2006 (EDT)
Right now, seems nobody is having any problems at all - hence for the purposes of a one-paragraph summary I think "military coup" already says it all. Obviously that could change very quickly, but currently everything is very calm indeed. ~ 00:32, 20 September 2006 (EDT)
Alright, I trust your judgement better since you're there, but I'd be more than happy to err on the side of safety. Thanks for keeping us up-to-date. -- Sapphire 00:36, 20 September 2006 (EDT)
I've added mention of martial law to the Bangkok & Thailand "warningbox"es, which have a bit more scope size-wise although I'm very wary of them getting out of hand. ~ 01:10, 20 September 2006 (EDT)

Random quesrion[edit]

Moved from Wikitravel:Travellers' pub Hypatia 09:05, 21 September 2006 (EDT)

Is it physical possible to leave Cincinnati and get to Chicago in 23 minutes?

Depart: Cincinnati, OH (CVG) - Wed, Aug 02 at 7:47am Arrive: Chicago-Ohare, IL (ORD) - Wed, Aug 02 at 8:10am -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 20:27, 26 July 2006 (EDT)

No, but it's entirely possible in 83 minutes — there's a time difference of one hour. Jpatokal 20:34, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
Jeez, I should have known that! I always make a crack about why I love flying west - because I become younger. Thanks for pointing out my oversight. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 20:37, 26 July 2006 (EDT)
Actually, you get "older" flying east: it's later in the day in that direction. Sitting near the eastern edge of Central time, Chicago is a common space-time anomaly; every time I fly there from Grand Rapids to catch a flight elsewhere in the world, we land before we take off. - Todd VerBeek 09:39, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

Hello Sapphire,[edit]

Thank you so much for the response and the very useful information. I read over the "Don't tout" page and I apologize if any of my posts were not 100% coinciding with this. I will be much more careful about this in the future.

I'm very happy to hear that you are already checking out I would love to know what you think and if you think TripTie has value to the traveling community. When TripTie goes live (within the next week) all the trip plans will be available to the public. I was thinking direct links to quality itineraries for a desired location could be very useful for the wikitravel community (obviously without any touting). How would you feel about this?

Thanks again for taking the time to message me, I will be sure to use the "Traveller's pub" area in the future. Quick question about the Traveller's pub, would it be appropriate to post something there informing people about (in a non-toutful way)? Any feedback about TripTie or further advice would be great!

Sincerely, Karl Founding Partner & Manager
P.S. Happy Birthday!

Local spam blacklist[edit]

Just a suggestion - when adding a new URL to the list, might be worth mentioning the URL in the Edit Summary, then others can see at a glance that it's a job that no longer needs doing, without having to delve into the list itself or start reviewing difference between revisions. ~ 06:19, 26 September 2006 (EDT)

I'm unlikely to start doing that, because I often have a hard time remembering to do that unless I'm starting a brand new article. I'll try, though. -- Sapphire 06:33, 26 September 2006 (EDT)


I posted a proposed schedule on shared:Wikitravel Shared talk:Get-together; let me know what you think. --Evan 12:20, 26 September 2006 (EDT)[edit]

moved to here from User talk:

I've reverted the addition of the car rental link to the spam blacklist, because it seems to be a legit company and the information, contact info (including the link) can be useful. I haven't reverted your deletion of the link from the main Costa Rica page, because you're right that the information doesn't belong there. However, the info could be useful in San Jose and other Costa Rican destination articles where the company has locations. -- Sapphire 14:44, 29 September 2006 (EDT)

Did you review the Costa Rica edit history? ~ 14:49, 29 September 2006 (EDT)
Yes, but it isn't that big of a deal since the guy only added the link six times. Now, if he had done so fifty times I'd be inclined to side with you. Also, I left a more detailed message for him on his talk page and I noticed you did too. Might I suggest leaving a little more detailed message for people that add links. Having someone say "Hey, read this" is a little confusing for them if they don't know why they're supposed to be reading it. Tell them why we don't link to individual companies on country articles. -- Sapphire
Sorry to jump in here, but I'm still really uncomfortable with using the spam list as a way of enforcing Wikitravel:External links. The current state of the discussion on this issue seems to be that the spam list should only be used in extreme cases, and none of the recent "spam" additions appear to me to be anywhere close to "extreme". -- Ryan 15:04, 29 September 2006 (EDT)
No problem - it is a wiki and my talk page is a collaboration. I agree with you. Most of the time the links business owners add are harmless or not too disruptive. -- Sapphire 15:07, 29 September 2006 (EDT)


Thanks for the welcome! Frequenttrekker 30 Sep 2006

You're welcome. If you have any questions feel free to ask. -- Sapphire 09:58, 30 September 2006 (EDT)
Thanks. I will. Frequenttrekker 30 Sep 2006

Ohio sandbox[edit]

You're using the User:Sapphire/Sandbox/Places/Ohio talk page for something else, so I thought I'd comment here. You asked Xltel to proofread, but I thought I'd butt in. Here is what I did [3].

Here are some more comments:

  • "11,459,011 residents in 2004 according to the US Census Bureau" — it is probably better to just round it off to 11 million. More readable and less cognitive load.
  • "Ohio has played a critical role in the formation of the United States history and government." — umm.. what role did it play in the formation? AFAIK, its big role came when the expansion to the midwest and the fight against slavery started. Also, it should probably mention that the state was formed in 1802.
  • "Many Ohioans, most notably Harriet Elizabeth Beecher Stowe and John Brown." — this sentence was dangling, so I completed it. Just check if it is correct.
  • Instead of discussing the intricacies of how Ohio is a swing state, it is probably better for the traveller to know that it is split, and how it is split (urban vs. rural, I presume) Then it is better to link it up to the attitudes that he is likely to encounter and the differences between them.
  • "At the turn of the 20th century Ohio became one of the most important technological centers in the U.S." — I removed this sentence because it sounded like a pompous way to introduce the fact that the Wright brothers were born there. I also recasted the paragraph to put Ohio first. It did not make sense to take a tour of North Carolina and then come back to Ohio to learn that it was the Birthplace of Aviation pioneers.
  • "John Glenn, who was the first man into space" — Nope, that was Yuri Gagarin.
  • It also needs a paragraph on the geography and climate.

Ravikiran 15:37, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

Thanks! Yeah, I was discussing John Glenn a little bit ago I think I meant to write that he was the first American in space. -- User:Sapphire

Re:Protecting the USA page[edit]

Fine with me. (I wasn't aware that you were on line.) Just follow through. The bickering has gone on long enough; one more round and Boom.

I don't particularly have a dog in this fight. The United States creates highly polarized opinions in people simply because of what it is: an enormously influential country, regardless of whether you endorse its politics. But a time comes when you accept that those opinions are going to be out there, and nobody's mind is going to be changed by "dialogue" (sic) here. We're way past the time when a ceasefire is needed; having fired the warning shot, I don't care whether you do the protect or I do, as long as it does get done if the bickering continues. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:16, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Incidentally, note that the mere threat of a protect seems to have sent the combatants to their corners of the ring. (This was actually a goal.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 16:19, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
It gets a little tiring for me too. It's extremely pointless to battle it out on how terrible the U.S. is when we have Wikipedia for that. If there's another edit and it has to be reverted I'll protect it. -- Sapphire 16:22, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Weird Chinese stuff[edit]

Are you also an admin on Wikitravel Shared, Andrew? I'm not, and that Chinese spammer is now making a mess there, too. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:42, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

I've blacklisted his email address on Shared and DE. A few weeks ago I placed a spam blacklist on every Wikitravel version so all you need to do is add whatever url to the local spam blacklist on the respective language version or Shared. -- Sapphire 23:54, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
You may want to ask Evan to upgrade your user rights on Shared too. He took care of it for Todd a couple months back after I pointed it out to him. -- Sapphire 00:02, 2 October 2006 (EDT)

Thank you, Andrew! :)[edit]

For your anti-vandalism edits on the Romanian WikiTravel... Actually, there were no problems at all, quite on the contrary, it's me who needs to thank you for keeping an eye on it!... I was just a little bit puzzled by such edits out of the blue (I'm not a frequent user of the English WikiTravel so I didn't know you there) and for instance I was curious how did you come up with the spam list? Thanks a lot once again! --Vlad 12:30, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

I'm also an admin on the German Wikitravel (but I don't speak German) and one day I noticed a spammer was spamming the English, German Wikitravels and Wikitravel Shared. I then checked every other language version and he had also begun to spam the Romanian and Italian Wikitravels too. I knew the English Wikitravel had this spam protection list - Wikitravel:Local spam blacklist so I tried creating one on Wikitravel Shared and the German Wikitravel. When I realized it worked I added the list to every other Wikitravel so no one would have to do too much work reverting the edits of a spammer. -- Sapphire 13:04, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

You're fast![edit]

Man, I've had hu: up for about 10 minutes and you've already done the interwiki link for en:. quick moving! --Evan 13:39, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

I'm ready to start doing a few things in hu: too. Is it a go? -- Sapphire 13:42, 6 October 2006 (EDT)
Yeah, it's up. We should probably wait for the Expedition members to get habituated before announcing it, though. --Evan 14:05, 6 October 2006 (EDT)
I saw your comments on Shared that's why I'm putting all the interwiki within comment tags - that way when it's official all anyone has to do is delete five characters. -- Sapphire 14:08, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for That - Mapping Project[edit]

Many thanks for your information on the Wikitravel Mapping Project. It looks quite fascinating. I will explore this!

Good wishes.

Philip Barker
England, UK
8th October, 2006

You're welcome and if you have any questions feel free to ask. -- Sapphire 17:44, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

All is good![edit]

Sorry, guess I was overly parinoid. Now I understand the question about the PATRIOT Act... I was refering to the passage of S.3930 on 9/29/06. Which again, may be overly parinoid on my part. But I could see how it might give pause to some visitors to the USA. Again, I really don't see that there is a great need for the warning at this point and it is obvious as you have said that the quest by Dan is a "beef" against the USA. Thank you for your input on the talk page. -- Tom Holland (xltel)

S.3930 is that regarding the military tribunals Bush wanted to set up for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and the rest of Gitmo's prisoners? I'm normally on top of these bills, but it seems that this went largely unnoticed by CNN, possibly because of all the shootings that went on the past couple of weeks. -- Sapphire 19:43, 8 October 2006 (EDT)
Yeah, that's the one. It has passed, but President Bush has not signed yet. Will talk with you next week. Going to bed, I have to get up at 3:00AM and drive from Fort Smith to Oklahoma City. yuck! -- Tom Holland (xltel) 19:52, 8 October 2006 (EDT)
Goodnight! Sounds like fun. -- Sapphire 19:54, 8 October 2006 (EDT)


Hi Andrew - I know I've brought it up before, but I'd like to reiterate some concerns about your sandbox pages in the hopes that you might start making more edits to the actual articles. The other night it occurred to me to make an edit to the Cleveland article, but since that's also in your sandbox I had some concerns about getting the two versions out-of-sync and decided to hold off. I know you mean well by creating sandbox pages, but it has the effect of hiding any work you do from others, and making collaboration a bit more difficult. The stated advantage (If a users sees half a guide converted and doesn't know what the hell is going on they're likely not to contribute) refers mostly to listing tags, and I'm not sure that having half-converted tags is actually a bigger negative than having two divergent versions of an article. None of the Wikitravel guides are ever really complete, and it should therefore be fine for you to edit an existing guide in the same manner that you would edit one of your sandbox copies. That approach would give others the benefit of any edits you're making, while you saving you the trouble of having to merge edits from the real articles back into your sandbox. You're of course welcome to do things however you like, but please at least consider the advantages to editing the actual articles and only creating sandbox articles when you want to make an example page for others to discuss, or for testing purposes.

Now back to doing real work - my Wikitravel break for this hour is over :) -- Ryan 19:35, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

I've moved the Cleveland pages out of my user namespace. Anyhow, I really don't think there's a huge problem for most Wikitravellers because for the most part I've been vigilant about incorporating edits that were made to the "real" guide. I did however accidentally mess up Lodz, but once I realized what happened I fixed it.
That aside, I had actually decided a week or two ago to do conversions either offline or in the guide itself. I came to this decision because of concerns I had that are completely different than your own. At least converting listings in that manner solves both your concerns and my own. -- Sapphire 20:11, 12 October 2006 (EDT)
Awesome, thanks! Normally having pages in a sandbox wouldn't matter, but considering your standard Wiki output is equivalent to that of most small countries it seemed like a shame to make the world wait for so much hard work. I'll try to take a stab at some Cleveland updates in the next few days. -- Ryan 21:02, 12 October 2006 (EDT)

Hi there![edit]

Hi Andrew! Sorry, I just found your question about appartments in Lodz now. Probably you are already in Lodz and I hope you do have a place to live! Anyway, I will be back in Lodz on the 23rd (in Stockholm now) and I will be happy to meet and discuss developing pages for Belchatow (never been there...) and other places. Just text me or give me a call: +48 888218575. Best! Piotr

Unfortunately, I'm waiting until January or the summer of 2007 to move. Anyhow, the question still stands since I have to wait a few months. Thanks. -- Sapphire 17:45, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Cheers dude![edit]

Thanks for the welcome man, it's good to be here! Victor Greenstreet 18:09, 13 October 2006 (EDT)

Re: signature training[edit]

you're awesome, I was totally just wondering how to do that and to stubborn to ask. Thanks again for your collaborations! Cacahuate 03:50, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

I know that's why I unilaterally declared myself a star user (scroll down), but thanks for confirming what my ego loves to hear. :) -- Sapphire 04:04, 15 October 2006 (EDT)
Ok, I DID see the star status the first time I commented but it's now dissapeared, you need to get on that pronto brother... nobody's gonna de-star you... Cacahuate 07:36, 16 October 2006 (EDT)
Right, it's on your user page not your talk page... I'm gonna stop stalking you now... Cacahuate 07:50, 16 October 2006 (EDT)
Feel free to talk all you want. Sometimes I get bored of editing and just watch the site and it's nice when I get distracted from being bored. -- Sapphire 07:55, 16 October 2006 (EDT)

Re: Welcome Niels[edit]

Hi Sapphire, thanks for the welcome. I have written some parts a year or so ago as annonymous source :) The Weekly Mansion / Beckers and part of the transportation bits in Japan are mine. I am not really interested in the Dutch version, as I would need to write way too much there to make it even remotely interesting.

The Japanese version is a bit out of my interest too, as I would prefer writing for foreighners then writing to and for Japanese :)

If you decide to go to Japan again anytime soon, I can recommend WMT - Otemae in Osaka to stay at. Or hotels from the Toyoko-inn group.


sapphire can you add some data? 11:42, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Listings format[edit]

You can't put spaces around the equal signs in listing tags. --Evan 12:50, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Technical problem[edit]

Thanks for the quick response. Only about three fourths of the page is showing - the rest are not there. Then the headings such as 'Edit' etc. are not there. -- P.K.Niyogi 09:07, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Hmm. That's very weird, because I can see everything including "Edit" and the rest of the buttons. Try clicking this. What browser are you using? Can you see everything in Cincinnati or other pages? -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 09:10, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
Thanks, it is okay now. Other pages were okay even then. -- P.K.Niyogi 09:27, 23 October 2006 (EDT)
Good to know that. I saw this thread only now. — Ravikiran 03:37, 26 October 2006 (EDT)

Questions from Moon5[edit]

Hi Sapphire,

Thank you for your comments.

Is there any rule according to which we are supposed to order cities (in a country article) alphabetically?

Why have you removed my <br clear="all"/> from Warsaw? According to we can use it, can't we?

Best regards,

Moon5 08:47, 1 November 2006 (EST)

I believe we changed policy to reflect that listings of cities to be alphabetical with the capital city first. So even though Warsaw starts with "W" it comes first and every city preceding that is in alphabetical order. Also, only nine cities are allowed in case you didn't know. As for the <br clear="all"/> I wasn't sure what it was so I figured that someone who wasn't familiar with wiki markup added it. Feel free to add it back in if it works better. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 08:55, 1 November 2006 (EST)
Is there any official rule for cities order or number? I tried but it says nothing about that... -- Moon5 09:01, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Capital city first - then, following a one line gap, other cities in alphabetical order. I can't find the up-to-date discussion but there is an older discussion here. So for the United States of America it would look like this:
  • Washington (D.C.) - The national capital, home to America's most grand public buildings as well as a thriving multi-cultural community.
  • Boston - The capital of Massachusetts retains much of its colonial charm, but is kept young by its multitudes of students.
  • Chicago - The "Windy City", bustling heart of the Midwest, transportation hub of the nation, notable for its large number of architectural gems and massive skyscrapers.
  • Los Angeles - The home of Hollywood and the film industry, palm-fringed Los Angeles offers mountains, beaches, sunshine and everything else visitors look to find in California.
  • Miami - Miami is home to one of the greatest beaches in the country, and has a mix of sun-seeking northerners and immigrants from Latin America and the Caribbean seeking a chance to make it in the US.
  • New Orleans - Despite a devastating hurricane, "the Big Easy" is still famous for its atmospheric French Quarter and annual Mardi Gras celebration.
  • New York - America's largest city, with world-class cuisine, unparalleled arts offerings, one of the most diverse populations on the planet, and a great many other highlights. Both a symbol of the country and intensely international.
  • San Francisco - One of the most photogenic cities in the world, idiosyncratic San Francisco offers a diverse array of attractions, and is a popular gateway to the California coast and Yosemite National Park.
  • Seattle - This green and rainy city is known for its trend-setting cultural scene and the business presence of international high-tech giants.

-- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 09:04, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Maybe you're right and the idea is to have it like you wrote but since there is no rule agreed (at least I cannot find any and you meant a discussion only) there is no reason to have the order you proposed. I'm gonna follow the rules but when it comes to order and number of cities there is no one, for now. If you found any please let me know since I believe that one of more important things is to be self-consistent within the project. -- Moon5 09:16, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Route 66[edit]

The route from Albuquerque on to points west follows Interstate 40 for a loooong way. I don't know exactly what it does in California. Suggest you just look at the article.

The "alternate" route through New Mexico gets a bit messy. When you're ready to work on that one, let me know and I'll help. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:43, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Good overview. At some point it would be nice to segment the thing and home in on some of the problematic areas, but that can come later. User:Mark does excellent maps and might get inspired by this one, the more so since Rt66 passes right by his old stomping ground. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 23:59, 1 November 2006 (EST)
I just cut out all of the extra white space so it should look better. I can do the basic stuff, but the maps Mark makes are awesome. I kind of envy him. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 00:16, 2 November 2006 (EST)

Smoke Free Ohio[edit]

Yes I am an Ohioan, and the ban takes place 30 days from election day, which was Nov. 7. -- Milkman 14:05, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks! Can I ask how you know that? I read through the ballot language and couldn't find it anywhere, unless I happened to overlook it. When I couldn't figure it out I thought I'd ask another Ohioan. -- Sapphire 14:05, 9 November 2006 (EST)

I called the toll free number from and talked to the head of the PR department. Yeah, I saw there was nothing in the ballot about a starting date, so now we both know! -- Milkman 14:08, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Wow! Thanks for the doing that! -- Sapphire 14:14, 9 November 2006 (EST)

Deadwood photo[edit]

It's up at Wikitravel Shared [[4]] - use as you please. I knocked the size down a bit per the server request. (The Wikipedia version was a merciless 623kb). Gorilla Jones 11:22, 10 November 2006 (EST)

Thanks! I used to cut a lot of my images down because of the same warning, but often the images I would upload would lose almost all, if not all of its character. For that reason I just click the "ignore all warnings" box. I figure it's more important for an image to retain its character rather than statisfy a file size limit, but your photo still looks great. -- Sapphire 11:34, 10 November 2006 (EST)
Thanks for the advice - I agree. Here's a couple more from Deadwood ([[5]], [[6]]). I'll get a few of my own recollections into the guide in time. Gorilla Jones 08:29, 11 November 2006 (EST)


Hi Sapphire (Andrew),

Thanks for the advice on requesting interwiki links. I will go to Wikitravel Shared and do so. Have a good one! Kirasw 18:08, 11 November 2006 (EST)

Around/outside town[edit]

Thanks for correcting my English - getting native speakers' advice on such subtleties is a good way to keep learning. -- Ricardo (Rmx) 21:47, 23 December 2006 (EST)

You're welcome. It wasn't too far off, but there were very slight differences in the meaning. "Around town" mostly identifies as being within a town, rather than outside. If someone wanted to go to a place just beyond a town's borders it would still be "Just outside of town." Cheers. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 21:56, 23 December 2006 (EST)


My brother and I have a tradition of never jinxing your team when they do something good, and instead trying for the anti-jinx - if someone runs a kick back for a touchdown, immediately ask where the flag is. If someone catches a touchdown, claim they're out of bounds (even if they're in the middle of the field). I suspect your early victory prediction might have sealed the Bengal's fate today :-P For what it's worth, San Diego did the same thing to the Browns last weekend, although not with quite so large a lead... -- Ryan 20:06, 12 November 2006 (EST)

In the words of Jesus - "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" I was so confident that it was impossible to have overcome a 21 point lead even if the the entire Bengals starters were injured or killed and the only thing we had left were the second and third string teams. I blame WR Chris Henry for dropping what would have been the game winning catch. First he gets caught with marijuana, then he pulls a gun out in the middle of a crowd waving it about in front of a cop, then he allegedly purchases alcohol for underage girls, then a DUI in my town, now he acts like a pansy and doesn't go for the ball! It drives me nuts that the game always comes down to the last two minutes and they *$#*^! @*&$#@ $%$^% &^4 @##%[email protected]# it all away! $%$^^#@! Oh well, tell your dad the Steelers won't have to show up to the game until the fourth quarter next week and we'll hand them the ball. I'll try your theory next week. -- Sapphire 20:54, 12 November 2006 (EST)
I made a (losing) bet with my brother and gave him 20-1 odds on this game at halftime, and since then have always assumed that any comeback is possible. As an aside, I almost never make bets anymore... -- Ryan 21:16, 12 November 2006 (EST)


Hi Andrew! Currently the business keeps me work with high pressure therefore I can't take as much care of the COTW as I want. Hopefully after christmas the market relaxes a bit... The nominees for COTW are rare. Please kick in some cities. When I'm back I take a more to develop that thing a bit. Jc8136 14:39, 14 November 2006 (EST)

Brunei copyvio[edit]

When I find a copyvio, I usually edit it out OR insert a {{copyvio}} because for whatever reason I don't want to pursue it further (in future I'll state this in the edit summary).

In cases where the article/copyvio is very straightforward (for example when someone creates an article using only copyvio content, so there's nothing else there), I usually (always?) edit it out.

In more complex cases (ie going to take more time, research required, etc) I don't edit the copyvio out unless I'm prepared to bookmark the page and then check it periodically in case the copyvio is put back in again, and there's a limit to how many pages I want to do this with.

If it's an article I've no personal interest in that already has lots of history/contributors and substantial content, then I'll insert a {{copyvio}} and move on to something else.

In the case of Brunei, I've never been there, not contributed to the article beyond minor spelling/isIn/extlink edits, and have no idea how much copyvio it contains - I was just browsing recent changes and googled a substantial string of text randomly selected from the middle of a suspect paragraph and was given the URL I put in the {{copyvio}}.

Anyway I've now reverted the suspect contribution [7] and removed the {{copyvio}} and I've checked for other copyvios from the same IP (there was only one other edit logged). I've NOT checked the rest of the article, nor have I bookmarked it. ~ 04:11, 21 November 2006 (EST)

I probably would have reverted it myself, but country articles are usually quite long and I dislike trying to do the investigative work. If you leave a note on talk page explaining a little bit more like "The copyvio text is located under "Drink"" I'm sure I would've actually have done it. Thanks! -- Sapphire 17:10, 21 November 2006 (EST)

Thank you for your suggestions[edit]

I will review in detail the wikitravel style for my contributions. I do not want to be disruptive in any sense. I will follow the guidelines and thank you for your suggestions. Cyber traveler 19:16, 28 November 2006 (EST)

It's no problem. I just wanted to make sure you saw that, because it makes everyone's life a little bit easier. Thanks for your contributions! -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 19:18, 28 November 2006 (EST)

Shopping in Hangzhou[edit]

Sorry if my recently-created article went against the Wikitravel grain. I'll merge the information if that's what's best, but it seems to me that the Hangzhou article would become rather large and and unwieldy if that happened. I can see why overly-precise articles could be a problem, but it also seems to me that one of Wikitravel's strengths ought to be that it doesn't gloss over details the way many other travel guides do. I intend to add a lot of information that I wish I had known before coming to the city, and perhaps other can benefit from it as well.


Agreed, a totally unbiased travel guide is not very handy, but simply copying opinions from other sources is also not a good idea. I would suggest if one takes external information, stick to the facts and make it NPOV, but if one can supply a firsthand opinion, state it like it is. -- Nick 18:11, 1 December 2006 (EST)

PS: Robertson really is a very dull place, I passed thru there last year. An hour or two might be to much to spend there. I'll put the dull back in the article, but leave the reference to lonely planet out. -- Nick 18:13, 1 December 2006 (EST)

User talk:Wwwdaiyang[edit]

Check this out! He's also made another post [8] before that is kinda spammy. Obviously the main page spam isnt allowed, but whats the deal with stuff on your talk page? I've notified him that it doesn't tie in with Wikitravel:Goals_and_non-goals, but is there anything else we should do? I couldn't find anything in the guidelines and policies that says what you can and can't write on your talk page... -- Tim 07:19, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Typically on user pages and user talk pages there's a lot more latitude. However, that doesn't mean we retain spam on user pages (User:Cjensen is particularly good at this). Well-meaning links on user pages are of course acceptable, but people who've been spamming other parts of the site need extra scrutiny. --Evan 07:50, 2 December 2006 (EST)
Evan said it best. If it seems that the user is well-meaning I typically leave the user's user page and talk page alone. If the user is purposely being counter-constructive I'm more inclined to remove any additional spam links even if they're on a user's user page. Some restraint should be used since we do have well-meaning contributors that simply can't fathom what's going on and how to do thing and they shouldn't be punished. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 14:37, 2 December 2006 (EST)

your attempt similar to Paper travel guides?[edit]

Sapphire, do you remember the name of article you created earlier, which is similar to Paper travel guides? Wrh2 mentioned that an article Travel Guides existed before (and there's still Talk:Travel Guides). Was Travel Guides your page? Or we actually have 3 attempts to create a thing like Paper travel guides? --DenisYurkin 15:33, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Yes, that was the page I created. As far as I can tell there have only been two attempts at this type of travel topic. At first I probably thought it wasn't a good idea to delete it (Travel Guides), but as I've come to understand the goals and non-goals more and more I now agree with its deletion. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 18:24, 4 December 2006 (EST)
Thanks, at least now I know how many predecessors my page has. --DenisYurkin 18:48, 4 December 2006 (EST)[edit]

Why would you think is not official website?

It is owned by Ayrum Internasional you can find this name in it is official goverment ministry which issues licence to operate as a travel tour operator.

Please respond!

Furkat Elmirzaev

It is not the official link for the Uzbek tourism board ( Ayrum International is a travel agency, not the tourism board. Wikitravel's external links policy does not allow us to slap travel agency website links all over our guides. Possibly, if Ayrum International has a physical office/address we could list it under the "Cope" section of the city it's located in, but I can't find anything sayint this is permitted so I'll ask the community for thoughts. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 20:42, 8 December 2006 (EST)
Thank you for your response!
Ayrum Internasional Limited is registered at 20.1 Mekhanizator poselek Karshi-city Uzbekistan.
It was registered in 2003. The first website was for this company now we have changed and developing as informational gateway for Uzbekistan.
Could you please fit within Uzbekistan secton. By the way there is a mistake in the name of my country which is Uzbekistan not Uzkbekistan.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Kind regards,
Furkat Elmirzaev
I doubt we'll list it on the Uzbekistan article, but if the community thinks listing travel agencies is a good idea we could list it on Karshi, but only if the community permits this. Feel free to comment on the discussion - Wikitravel:Travellers'_pub#Travel_agencies. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 20:59, 8 December 2006 (EST)


Thanks for the warm welcome!Can you help me promote Kannur 's page? Sumalsn 05:10, 9 December 2006 (EST)

What do you mean by promote? If you want help from others I suggest reading over and then adding Kannur to Wikitravel:Collaboration of the Week. Also, please be sure to read our Wikitravel:Manual of Style. Also, typically we don't link to or create guides to attractions (See Wikitravel:What is an article?). -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 05:23, 9 December 2006 (EST)


The World66 bot has been running in batches and most of the matches have been added. There will, of course, be a lot of manual work too. There's actually a lot of articles that don't match because of different ideas of what's an article (i.e. we have regions they have some attractions with their own articles) and different focuses (they have a lot more Northern European destinations for example).

The transbot ran into some roadblocks with a character encoding issue. I'm still trying to work around them, but I may have to abandon the Perl libraries that I was using and start again using PyBot or another php/mediawiki bot. Thanks again for your excellent template-request suggestion-- I've added the code for that functionality. I'll try and get back on the character issue since you're still interested! I still think there's a lot of good that could come from more inter-translation... Maj 11:02, 9 December 2006 (EST)

That's awesome! I didn't think the template request thingamig was really feasible. If you were actually able to figure out what I was rambling about and tell the bot to do that that's simply amazing. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 18:42, 9 December 2006 (EST)


I was going to make it into "Gay (Georgia)" then dab Gay. *grin* -- Tom Holland (xltel) 13:58, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Oh hell. :) Feel free to recreate I just wanted to delete the vandalism before anyonce based an article off of that type of vandalism. P.S. Shouldn't it be "Gay (San Francisco)"? -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 14:17, 11 December 2006 (EST)

Comments about etiquette[edit]

Well sorry if I was not informed about your Wiki edicate. In regards to your comment about "The first being it's very rude to remove someone else's comments and any comments that you may have made and someone has already responded to." That is against Wiki edicate as well as stated here: "Try to keep discussions about a particular article on that article's talk page, too." And I'm breaking edicate by pointing that out. On to matters of edicate and a particular article, Jonboy made an edit to a page that removed a copyrighted paragraph's source. Isn't that against Wiki Obviously a rhetorical question.

There's no need to cop an attitude. I'm going to go ahead and answer your rhetorical question. Everytime you take copyright material and post it to Wikitravel you are violating copyright laws. Luckily, due admins like Jonboy, we're able to identify copyright violations before they become a problem and remove them. A quick scan over the article suggest that Jonyboy didn't realize that the text was copyrighted. He was probably more concerned with the link, which is also forbidden under policy.
Also, typically we don't cite our sources, because Wikitravel is a travel guide, not an encyclopedia. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 18:20, 15 December 2006 (EST)
Actually it's pretty obvious Geltoob is the owner of the content. He is now attempting to remove the material he contributed because apparently he didn't read the warnings when he clicked "save page" to contribute the text. Unfortunately for him, under US law his clicking "save page" legally bound him to the written terms of contribution so his contribution can now be used by anyone for any purpose. Fortunately for him, I think we should just leave it deleted since it didn't actually say anything useful to us. -- Colin 18:37, 15 December 2006 (EST)
I suspected that, but wasn't postitive. I agree with you that his contributions aren't very useful so we can leave it be. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 23:44, 15 December 2006 (EST)


Here is my text about Petrovaradon fortress. I hope that its ok. If you have any comment or sugestion, please tell me.

--Micowiny 16:33, 17 December 2006 (EST)

Rail travel in Canada[edit]

Thanks for your comments - however I'm concentrating on a precise itinerary, not a travel topic. It will abide by the guidelines for an intinerary and hopefully will not tread on the toes of the existing travel topic by going into detail not suitable for the Rail travel in Canada page. I would ask that the documents remain un-merged until the complete material exists on this page. Regards, and thank you for your concerns and comments. < james > James 14:27, 21 December 2006 (GMT)

Oh, ok. I've removed the merge template. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 09:35, 21 December 2006 (EST)

Kathgodam image[edit]

Ya, it is licensed i suppose. anyway, i photographed it so i give my personal consent.Upamanyuwikitravel 10:39, 21 December 2006 (EST)

Border towns?[edit]

Hey there! Just a quick question since you're online, I didn't know where else to post this one. Is there a policy that you know of for border towns? The one I'm considering now is Haridaspur / Benapole between India and Bangladesh. Often the border towns are tiny, and often have different names, but could easily be covered by one article (and I'd prefer it all on one page anyway). Have you seen this discussed before? I was starting to think maybe just creating Haridaspur/Benapole, but surely someone would argue against that. Cacahuate 05:30, 23 December 2006 (EST)

Hmm. I'm not sure. You can't use "Haridaspur/Benapole" because that creates a district page. I've used Milford-Miami Township before, but that's a bit tacky. Benapole kicks Haridaspur's ass on Google by 142% so maybe create the page under Benapole then redirect Haridaspur to Benapole. Otherwise we could propose the question on Wikitravel talk:Article naming conventions. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 05:42, 23 December 2006 (EST)
Indeed, I'll raise it there. And the Benapole suggestion does make a lot of sense. Thanks! Cacahuate 05:52, 23 December 2006 (EST)
It seems to me that the best thing to do is just create the two articles separately. If, down the road, we see a real need to merge them, let's do it then. --Evan 10:38, 23 December 2006 (EST)
Thanks Sapphire, no I didn't see Evan's comment before I just created the article. I typed up a new subject on the ANC talk page as you suggested the other day, but lost power just before saving, so today just followed your suggestion for that border... Which, at least in this instance, I still think is best - you can only sleep on the Benapole side, and almost everything that you would put in the Haridaspur article would be duplicate from Benapole... I've crossed at least 20 land borders, and most of the ones I've seen probably wouldn't warrant 2 articles, I think. What first got me thinking actually was the Attari / Wagah border between India and Pakistan. I don't think you can sleep on either side (and wouldn't need to, they're both close to large cities), but an article about crossing procedures, getting in and out, and the very popular "border closing ceremony" is warranted... it can easily be one article, but since it's such a politically weird place I wouldn't know which side to take... or maybe since you can't sleep there then it should just go in get in/get out section of Lahore and Amritsar? Cacahuate 03:26, 25 December 2006 (EST)


I notice that the article for Swansea is no longer listed on Google, whereas last time I checked it was within the top 15 listings for the city. I have tried typing in just the name 'Swansea' and also 'Swansea Wikitravel', but it doesn't come up. Any ideas? Thanks for your help. Frequenttrekker 23:20, 23 December 2006 (EST)

It's dropped down to within the top 40 if you type in only "Swansea", but if you search "Swansea travel" it's number 6. I think it's kind of funny if you type in "Swansea Wikitravel" the Italian versions pops up as first, followed by the English language's Swansea talk page.
Google uses a mixture of factors that decides where a page ranks. Here's an excerpt from Google:
PageRank relies on the uniquely democratic nature of the web by using its vast link structure as an indicator of an individual page's value. In essence, Google interprets a link from page A to page B as a vote, by page A, for page B. But, Google looks at more than the sheer volume of votes, or links a page receives; it also analyzes the page that casts the vote. Votes cast by pages that are themselves "important" weigh more heavily and help to make other pages "important."
Important, high-quality sites receive a higher PageRank, which Google remembers each time it conducts a search. Of course, important pages mean nothing to you if they don't match your query. So, Google combines PageRank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages that are both important and relevant to your search. Google goes far beyond the number of times a term appears on a page and examines all aspects of the page's content (and the content of the pages linking to it) to determine if it's a good match for your query.
If you want to understand the process more I'd suggest reading these links: PageRank explanation, Why can't I find a site today that I was able to locate yesterday? . -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 23:39, 23 December 2006 (EST)
Hi sir, thanks for you quick and clear explanation. I appreciate it. The rankings process, I can understand. However, there is no link to the Swansea article at all on 'Google'. When I typed in 'Swansea Wikitravel,' it just turned up the talk page for the article along with an article on the French Wikitravel. This led me to believe that the problem may be on the Wikitravel side. What do you think? Anyway, sorry for bothering you with this minor problem, but if there is a problem with the Wikitravel connection with the search engine, maybe it does need to be looked at. Frequenttrekker 23:58, 23 December 2006 (EST)
I don't think it's a problem on our side, because Evan and others have developed strategies to increase our traffic. More likely, it's a goof on Google's part. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 00:04, 24 December 2006 (EST)
Thanks. I've raised the issue with Google. Let's see what they come up with. Frequenttrekker 01:05, 24 December 2006 (EST)

Yo yo yo[edit]

Here's a blinky bakatcha. Goin' OK. Lookin' for my next obsession. OldPine 10:03, 24 December 2006 (EST)


Hi Andrew,

Don't worry about German grammar, even most Germans do not understand it. And it would be a pleasure for me to correct You ;-). Something serious: I think there is a major problem with the de:Wikitravel:Wie_du_eine_Seite_bearbeitest page in the German Wikitravel. Look at de:Wikitravel:Fehlerberichte if You have the time! --Flip666 20:24, 26 December 2006 (EST)

Hi Philipp,
You said that the page displays empty if someone clicks on the link from the German Wikitravel, right? The page displays for me when I type in the name. Could you upload a photo of the screen when it doesn't work? Also, where is the link that doesn't work? -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 20:39, 26 December 2006 (EST)
Sorry, I should have explained it more precisely. The page is there if You type in the name in Your browser. But do the following: Open de:München (just as an example, it's the same for any other page) then click on the edit-Tab ("Bearbeiten"). Scroll down to the line where the "Seite speichern", "Vorschau zeigen" and so on buttons are. Click on "Bearbeitungshilfe" (editing help). A new page opens and that should be de:Wikitravel:Wie_du_eine_Seite_bearbeitest but... it is empty!??? Maybe it is because the link under "Bearbeitungshilfe" points to de:Wikitravel:Bearbeitungshilfe and not where it should... Or we rename the page de:Wikitravel:Wie_du_eine_Seite_bearbeitest!? If You are more confused now then I'll make a screenshot :-) ! --Flip666 11:44, 27 December 2006 (EST)
No, now I understand :) and I've fixed it. Thanks for catching that. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 12:11, 27 December 2006 (EST)

Email Address[edit]

Please write to: , I have troubles with Your email!

<[email protected]>:<[email protected]>: _Recipient_address_rejected:_User_unknown_in_local_recipient_table/Giving_up_on_209.172.55.139./

--Flip666 19:14, 27 December 2006 (EST)