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User talk:Bill-on-the-Hill/2006

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Santa Fe maps[edit]

Hey! I've started working on a set of maps for Santa Fe on the grounds that it's a US destination so mapping is easy, and it's up for DOM. I figure I should keep you up-to-date on what I'm doing.

So far I have a basic map of Santa Fe County, which is just an import of pertinent Tiger/line data layers. Have a look (you can open the file with Inkscape, but only on a machine with a lot of memory).

I'm going to want your input on the subjects of detail and cropping, as well as parks etc. which are missing from the Tiger/line data, and eventually precise placement of listing icons. -- Mark 11:05, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

Hey Bill. Yeah, like I said where I'll need your help is with the cropping. The first thing I'm going to do is make a version that's cropped down to Santa Fe township (including the airport).

Check out Carbondale to see how I've done two maps, one close up with more detail and another with a wider area and less detail so that I could get all of the Sleep listings in. I figure this will probably be necessary for most US destinations since people usually have a car when travelling in the US and therefore can be expected to range a bit wider (if that makes sense).

Anyhow I started the Carbondale maps by doing this for Jackson County Illinois as well, so this is a preliminary step. I figured I would show you the full county version so that you can let me know if I need to also do cropped maps of any places outside of town (like maybe a ski resort or two?) -- Mark 12:43, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

Wide Area Map uploaded[edit]

Hi Bill, I've just uploaded the wide-area version of the SVG, the work for which only amounted to the deletion of roads and waterways outside of the area. All the other stuff can stay since the urban areas and parks don't use much disk space or memory.

If you could add a layer and put in marks of some kind for the eat/drink/sleep/do/see listings that would be fantastic! I can do it of course but I think it would be faster for you since you know the town better than I do. -- Mark 14:34, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

I forgot to mention: I would suggest opening the file in Inkscape so that you can edit it (and see all the layers correctly). -- Mark 15:16, 2 Jan 2006 (EST)

I think I may have had the "Roads" layer turned off when I did the previous upload. I just added a new one though which has the roads turned on and in which I've made I-25 yellow. Eventually I want to do that with all the highways, limited access or not. -- Mark 19:08, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

Hey Mark, if you see this, check your own discussion page; it seems to have become weird following the spam attack. Anyway, I haven't forgotten these maps, but am finding them very tough going. Many older cities have basic street layouts that were apparently set up by following cow paths. Santa Fe is unique among them, however, in that its cow paths seem to have been created by drunken cows. I've lived in the vicinity for nearly 30 years, and I can't make heads nor tails of the roads -- just last month discovered an important route that I had no idea existed. Transferring that to a map is predictably frustrating... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:21, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)
Actually the fake "Mark." user was created by a vandal some time ago. I don't much care about it, but I suppose I should eventually make it a redirect to my page.
I suppose that it will be easier to do the icons after the streets are labeled. I still don't have a very good way to automate that, but this gives me a good excuse to try. -- Mark 22:56, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

The map is looking good. Do you mind if I do some more editing though? It would be better for instance if the icons were SVG rather than PNG for instance. Also I usually make these SVG maps "full bleed" and then crop when I make the PNG.

I'll do some work on the street labels. I take it you prefer just having the major roads rather than highlighting the major roads? It's no big deal, just a style thing. -- Mark 12:10, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

Actually, would you rather have me make changes or would you prefer a critique? It would be really great to have more contributors who can do this mapping stuff. -- Mark 14:30, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)
My take on Area Map

Here's a new version taken mostly from the Tiger/Line data. I don't know how precise the placement of the icons is, but this gives you an idea of where I would like to go with this. I think my downtown bounding box is a little big perhaps, but I wanted to be sure to get as much stuff inside of it as possible. I'm working on the street lables downtown now. -- Mark 11:16, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)

I'm glad you like the work. I guess my 8 years of art school are worth something, though probably not nearly what I still owe. It's weird 'cause since I work as a programmer these maps are pretty much the only visual art or graphic design I do these days. Once in a while I do a party flyer for one of the local DJs but that's about it. I'll figure out a good size for the downtown map after I get the streets down there labled, but I will definetly do as you say with St. Francis. -- Mark 03:52, 23 February 2006 (EST)

Bad reichenhall article[edit]

You said the status of the Bad Reichenhall article is too high. In your opinion, what should the status be? Kingjeff 12:44, 17 Feb 2006 (EST)

North Central (New Mexico)[edit]

Hi Bill-on-the-hill, in response to your question on my talk page asking me what prompted me to look at the North Central (New Mexico) article, I'm currently looking at things to do in my summer vacation, and I've been trawling Wikitravel for ideas!! It certainly does look like a cool place to visit!

Tsandell 07:45, 14 March 2006 (EST)

Hot springs[edit]

Alas, I know next to nothing about European hot springs — and after moving to the tropics they don't quite appeal in the same way, I can get an instant sauna just by opening the door... Jpatokal 10:21, 17 March 2006 (EST)

Redirect & Typos[edit]

Hi Bill - your point re: typos and redirects is well-taken and one that I argued a long while back (see [1] and search for "Genevosa"). However, a few individuals have made the point (fairly passionately) that if one person has made a typo then someone else may make the same typo in the future, so turning typos into redirects should be the policy. No one seems to strongly disagree, so that's now the policy -- as always it could be discussed and changed, but there just doesn't seem to be a compelling reason why typos must be deleted, while some people feel passionately that they shouldn't be. To me the issue is sort of like the British vs. American spelling debate -- I just don't care that much, but will defer to those who do, so if this is one that keeps you awake at night, scares your children, and troubles your dreams, Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy is the place to be. -- Ryan 18:52, 19 March 2006 (EST)

Hey Bill - this one comes full circle: I deleted "Michigan State Univeristy" due to the consensus to delete it, despite you having redirected to Lansing (Michigan). While I agree that "Michigan State University" might be a case worth redirection, a misspelling ("univeristy") and a non-article seemed a clear case for deletion. Your comment that you wouldn't be upset if it was deleted was hopefully an honest one, and if not feel free to berate me, insult my family, and generally vent - I'll take it like a man ;) -- Ryan 19:42, 11 April 2006 (EDT)

Bill AIM?[edit]

Aol instant messenger to ask about cities? mine is feverwarrior

None at the moment, sorry. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:29, 31 March 2006 (EST)

thanks anyway.


Thanks Bill. SHC 19:20, 29 April 2006 (EDT)

List length[edit]

Yeah, I guess "policy" might not have been the best term. I guess it's generally just a guideline as to the length of the list of cities. I don't think it applies to other non-city things. I'm kind of up in the air about it, but I do think it's ridiculous when the text says, here are nine major cities, and someone adds their favorite city. -- Jonboy 19:31, 30 April 2006 (EDT)

Administrator nomination[edit]

Bill, I just added a nomination for you to the Wikitravel:Administrator nominations list. I hope you'll think about the idea. --Evan 10:03, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

Admin bit[edit]

Thanks for taking on the admin role; you're all set with the permissions, so you should see the fancy tabs across the screen. Please let me know if you have any problems. --Evan 23:10, 20 May 2006 (EDT)[edit]

No problem. I just came up with the welcome message. I think the idea of a fine frightens them away. Also, they don't seem to realize that we record IP addresses. A couple of times I've fired off letters to ISP of the vandals and spammers and after being contacted by the ISPs and my emails they normally cease. We have to fight them on a united front. :) - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:28, 23 May 2006 (EDT)
  • I did send his ISP an email. Hopefully, he won't becoming back after getting a call or an email from them. Plus, when I reverted his last edit on the main page he promised that was the "last of [his] careless edits." If not, maybe he next pay time I'm in the EU. I'll pay him a "Wikitravel" hello. Ha ha ha (Evil laughter)! - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:48, 23 May 2006 (EDT)


Quote: "Those are the headers we use on pages throughout the site, and they're part of our Manual of style. Granted, they're a little unusual, but they're part of what makes Wikitravel different from other travel guides, giving it a more active personality."

Who are "WE"? Are you talking for the whole of Wikipedia? Who decides the style? Who decides the Manual of Style?

A little unusual? They´re not English. Maybe I should have written, "Me eat, you eat... good..."

Does making verbs into commands (See, do, eat) give them a more "active personality"? What does that mean? Can words, or a web-page, have an active personality? Hmmm...

I changed the words because I think that Gerunds are important. "Eating", as in, "Eating in Linz", (which is what the article is about, after all) is grammatically correct.

Please don´t think this was written hastily, or nastily, but I hope you get my meaning.


Sorry, they were!


Fisherman pic[edit]

Hi there,

unfortunately I do not have a written permission of the lady, so feel free to remove it. I will check that it gets removed from the articles.

Cheers, Felix - 05/June/2006, 15:35 GMT


Hi Bill, I have read your comments regarding Everest left on my discussion page, and have accordingly added info on the respect section - though not much as explaining in detail would constitute writing an article on Tibetan Buddhist beliefs. Also, I have not added any info regarding photography. Sherpas are used to tourists and generally do mind being the subject of an enthusiastic traveler. In fact, many of them enjoy it - so there are no specific guidelines. Likewise, outside of Tengboche, barring common sense, the monasteries also do not have rules about photography. As for haggling, I have started a section on 'buy' and added a comment there. Hope the additional info is satisfactory, but if you have further ideas, please let me know. Thanks. WindHorse 28 June 06

Pink slip[edit]

Sorry mate, I hate to do this to ya, but your position as self-nominated keeper of the Discover has been made redundant; you've been unceremoniously replaced by cheap bot labor from South-East Asia. Sniff. Jpatokal 03:57, 11 July 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for filling in while Flak-o-bot was AWOL again... Jpatokal 12:01, 23 September 2006 (EDT)

DotM schedule[edit]


Thanks for your interest in Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates, but two comments: First, there is no policy against consecutive DotMs from a continent, or even a country. Second, before making a change like you just made, please try to obtain consensus via discussion. There are places in the text of the article that invite discussion of nominees, order, etc.; by using those you may be able to generate consensus that your proposed changes should be made. (Incidentally, if you register a username, conversations like this get easier.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 00:14, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

Sorry for the confusion. I never thought there was, nor suggested there might be or ought to be, a policy against consecutive DotMs from a continent or country.

Seeking further consensus seemed pointless as the changes were each in line with all the existing consensus (including your own "No objections" and "early boreal winter" comments).

Pattaya (move from November to December):

"looks like a winter tourist place"
"a good winter/spring destination"
"Should it possibly be scheduled for a later month like December or January as it seems to be a get-away-from-the-cold-destination?"
"No objections, as long as something satisfactory for November can be found. That's why there's a question mark there ... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 09:45, 18 May 2006 (EDT)"
"A good Early winter spot Oct-Dec. would be good choices"
"It might be scheduled for January or February"

La Paz (Bolivia) (move from December to November):

"Suggested for some time in early boreal winter. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:36, 2 July 2006 (EDT)"

Taipei (move from January to February):

"Spring would be the best time to feature this, although winter should also be OK."

~ 02:29, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

Iraq reversion[edit]

Hi Bill - what was the problem with this edit to the Iraq article? The guy seems to be trying to make edits that he sees as helpful, and aside from some questionable parentheses that one didn't seem too bad. -- Ryan 16:45, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

Fair enough. The guy does seem to be trying, and I just didn't want him to feel like every single thing he does gets removed. That said, you're very right about how appropriate it is to be giving advice on "preferred weapons" for use in Iraq. -- Ryan 17:48, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

Arriving in Los Angeles[edit]

So, Jack from wikiHow sent me an email telling me that this article is being deleted:

He wondered if there was anything there we could use or include. I thought we might be able to fit it into an itinerary, but you might have a better perspective than I do. Any feelings? --Evan 12:14, 6 August 2006 (EDT)


I like the idea too and I have an offline version at home of what it could look like. My offline version is based on Wikipedia's reference desk and I see it as a fusion of "Docents" for a particular topic/city, but where people who don't noticed the Docent bar can ask questions. I also mentioned to Evan and Maj earlier about enlisting the help of tourist offices and/or chamber of commereces to dedicate a volunteer to help us out especially on huge cities like London, Paris, or NYC. If they had one person check out questions every hour or so and answered certain questions it would be hugely beneficial for the Wikitraveller and the destination, plus we get the bonus of traffic. Would you look over this proposal I had a few months ago and tell me if you think it could be implemented "Conceirge?" After a litte bit I had talked myself out of the idea, but since I saw your comments I've kind of rekindled my interest. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 15:45, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

I agree with you. I've talked myself out of the idea again. Anyhow, do you picture it something like - ask a question about Western Europe and we'll get you an answer? I also find it to be potential medium/forum for the press to ask for interviews from Wikitravellers. -- Sapphire 00:38, 10 August 2006 (EDT)
P.S. I'm indifferent to the Snake safety article, now. I do think we should use something like Colin's idea, though. I've been thinking that snakes are so universal that it may be useful to any traveller to any continent (except Antartica) to create this article. However, for lions and goats I think a generalized article should suffice. Oh and if someone wants to know safety precautions for bears I think we could refer them to the Colbert Report. Plus if we can convince one person to watch the Colbert Report we can ensure Republican control forever! (Insert evil laugh) -- Sapphire 00:38, 10 August 2006 (EDT)

Northern New Mexico Hotels[edit]

I had to go back and check some credit card receipts, and it turns out I splurged and spent $40 at the Econo Lodge, but I can vouch for the fact that in April 2005 there were quite a few hotels on I-40 west of Gallup that were advertising rooms for $20 a night - with taxes I suppose the final cost might have been $30. As to bedbugs and bloodstains, since I stayed at the Econo Lodge I'll have to take your word for it ;) -- Ryan 18:41, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

Hi Bill,

I noticed your great contributions to Wikitravel and also how you are such an avid traveler. I just wanted to invite you to a new free travel planning website at It's very web 2.0 where people can edit all the information yet very different from Wikitravel in the sense that the website serves as a trip planning program that allows users to remix, customize and edit itineraries, item descriptions and photos. We are currently in beta right now, but you can go to the website and invite yourself into the beta, or email me at [email protected] and I will be happy to send you an invitation. I would love to know what you think of our website.

Thanks so much, Karl Sung Founding Partner & Manager

Hot springs and Spas[edit]

Thanks for the explanation. Just did a fast history on one of the two and didn't see you're involvement or would certainly have climbed the hill to ask you. Always seems worth the climb. OldPine 16:58, 22 September 2006 (EDT)

Protecting pages[edit]

Bill, I'd rather you not protect the page simply because I'd rather an admin who has not reverted any changes be the one to protect a page so no one can be accused of protecting a page in order to promote his/her own agenda. I know you don't have an agenda, but I'd much rather be the one to protect this page if it comes to it. -- Sapphire 16:09, 1 October 2006 (EDT)

Pole of Cold[edit]

Thanks for taking it on Bill. I kind of figured it might make an article, but the copyvio was not good. Again thanks! -- Tom Holland (xltel) 17:42, 15 October 2006 (EDT)


I've finally go to work on the map for Route 66 can you clarify some things for me? Where exactly should I make the end point? Do you know if you're following the Route from Albuquerque to SoCal do you take I-15 and if so do you actually go through San Bernardino? -- Sapphire

The directions on the article were bugging me out a little, but I think I got the gist of it. How does this look. I'll have to do some finishing touches, but it should suffice for now. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 23:45, 1 November 2006 (EST)

Shared and NM[edit]

The Categories on Shared were created by Evan's User:LOCODEbot, which using information provided by the United Nations created categories on Shared. The lat/long coordinates are strange and you may want to point that out to Evan. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 14:37, 3 December 2006 (EST)


Bill, if you're still online, could you read and comment on shared:User talk:LOCODEbot? I hope I've addressed your concerns, and if so, I'd like to start the bot back up again. Thanks. --Evan 19:43, 3 December 2006 (EST)


Bill, as someone who's done a lot of park articles for Wikitravel, what is your feeling about Wikitravel:Cooperating with WikiOutdoors? --Evan 20:01, 4 December 2006 (EST)

Little havana[edit]

Your solution seems better. I was looking for a quick way of highlighting this misplaced article, since I didn't have time to deal with it in detail. -- Jonboy 09:17, 14 December 2006 (EST)


Hey, Bill. So, I think you might have seen the new recent changes patrol feature. It's helpful if admins set their preferences so that their own edits are automatically marked as patrolled. If you feel comfortable with that, you can find it on the "edit" tab. --Evan 22:20, 16 December 2006 (EST)

Done. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 01:21, 17 December 2006 (EST)

Further steps on User:DenisYurkin/Paper travel guides[edit]

Bill, thank you for advocacy on Paper Guides on VFD discussion. I saved the page in my user namespace adding a highlighted box indicating its status. As for its future:

  • what do you think of adding a section to the end of Wikitravel:Requests for comment with a title like "Guilty-until-proven-innocent", where we can attrach more enthusiasts to the topic?
  • will it comply to Wikitravel rules if I invite people in the Wikitravel:Travellers' pub to join the discussion taking place in User talk subpage?
  • overall, is it "legal" to keep and develop an article that does not comply to official rules? Do we have any similar precedents?

Thank you again. --DenisYurkin 17:41, 20 December 2006 (EST)



Bill, I'm guessing from the change of age on your user page that you had a birthday recently. Is that right? If so, enjoy this cake, and have a happy one! --Evan 10:57, 24 December 2006 (EST)