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User talk:2old

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The reason the description was "split" was because there was a new paragraph (most likely created by hitting the enter key). If you compare the difference [1] you'll be able to see it better. It's kind of hard to explain.

Also, before you do a whole lot of extensive editing, take a second to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines to be sure you understand how this type of stuff works. You seem to have the right idea when it comes to our manual of style.

If you need any more help, check out Wikitravel:Help, and if you need some info not on there, post a message in the travellers' pub, or feel free to leave me another message on my talk page. Welcome to Wikitravel! -- Fastestdogever 15:53, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Wikitravel Shared[edit]

Thought I'd let you know about Wikitravel Shared, Wikitravel's shared image repository. If you upload images there all of the language versions of WT can access and use the photos. It works pretty much the same as the English version of WT. Check it out when you get a chance. I'm off now to enjoy this beautiful day! -- Fastestdogever 13:10, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Holmes County[edit]

Hey, nice job on that article. I kept meaning to add something about not taking photographs of Amish people - guess you beat me to it! One minor thing - Ohio counties are treated as regions and use the Wikitravel:Region article template. This template doesn't list individual entries for the Eat and Sleep sections - they go in the city article instead. For example, Grandma's Homestead Restaurant would go in the Charm article. Keep up all the good work! -- Fastestdogever 12:15, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

Sorry about that - I thought you did create those. I'm not familiar with Catawba - is it a town near Port Clinton? If it's a really teeny town that is pretty much indistinguishable from Port Clinton (at least from a travelers point-of-view) just go ahead and add the Catawba info to the PC article. Maybe just make a mention in the PC article that it also covers the town of Catawba. Also, I created the Berlin article. -- Fastestdogever 13:06, 24 April 2007 (EDT)


I see what you mean about not being sure where it should go. Is there a collective name for the Marblehead peninsula and Catawba Island? If you check out this map it's pretty obvious that Port Clinton, Marblehead & Catawba are all different towns gathered on the same strip of land. I think we should probably make a Ottawa County region and add those (along with some of the Lake Erie Islands) together. -- Fastestdogever 15:59, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
Just found that Wikipedia calls that peninsula the "Ottawa County peninsula" is this something you've ever heard of? Or is the Catawba Island Peninsula more common? I think we need just one region page to cover Port Clinton, Marblehead & Catawba. -- Fastestdogever 16:12, 24 April 2007 (EDT)
The naming conventions we use follow the most common English name. I think Catawba Island (even though it's not really an island) is probably used more commonly than Catawba Island Peninsula. Here's my proposal of how it would be broken down:

Don't worry about the other pages (Catawba Island Peninsula (Ohio) and Catawba Island Penninsula (Ohio) - we can redirect those to the Catawba Island page so if anyone does search for them they'll end up in the right place. Whatcha think? -- Fastestdogever 16:29, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

I moved our conversation over to Talk:Ottawa County (Ohio) so it'll be easier to follow.

Ottawa County[edit]

Sounds good to me. I looked at the page and it included Put-inBay. There are 7 islands in Ottawa County where Put-in-Bay is on South Bass (one of them). Should they be included also, like Put-in-Bay, or am I missing soemthing? Some of the differences in the area = Part of Catawba now has a sanitary sewer, where little of Marbelhead Peninsula does. This has resulted in a substantial building boom on Catawba since the mid-70's. There are a lot of newer marina's, golf courses, condo's, on Catawba and millions of dollars of private boats, supported by lodging and other services. It is the hot spot, so to say.

OK, everything's all set up. Let me know what you think -- Fastestdogever 22:52, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Holmes County[edit]

I had to remove a large section that was a copyright violation from this page. Please take a second to look at our copyleft and policies and guidelines. The thing to keep in mind that that most of the stuff found online can't be copied to Wikitravel. -- Fastestdogever 14:24, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

I thought info from Census would be acceptable, regardless of the source. So sorry!
That is true that facts can't be copyrighted, but actually copying text word for word is probably not the best idea. Also, at least for me personally, specific information like The population of Fakeville is 2,158 and has decreased 5.45%... more than likely belongs in Wikipedia. That's actually one of the reasons I enjoy working on Wikitravel more than Wikipedia - we get to deal with the fun stuff.
One more thing, typing ~~~~ after messages you leave on talk pages will automatically add your username & a time stamp. Keep up the good contributions! -- Fastestdogever 22:52, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Listing templates[edit]

Have you noticed the listings templates (in the box below the summary)? They look like:

* <see name="" address="" phone="" email="" fax="" hours="" price="" url=""></see>

I like using them because they automatically format the listings correctly. It might take a few tries to get used to, but it'll make adding listings easier (and prettier!). -- Fastestdogever 14:12, 26 April 2007 (EDT) Thank You! There are several features in this software I have not figured out


I created the links to the counties - all you have to do is click the Region tab in the links that look like this:

City | Major City | City District | Region | National Park | Phrasebook | Disambiguation | Talk Page

That will automatically fill out the template. Then just add {{IsIn|Ohio}} above the {{Outline}} entry & you should be all set. Fastestdogever 11:15, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

See Northwest Ohio#Counties. Then just click on the red link & follow the steps above. -- Fastestdogever 11:36, 30 April 2007 (EDT)


You've been all over. Those are some great pictures you've been uploading. I especially liked this one.

I just wanted to remind you again about Wikitravel Shared. If you upload your images there then other languages can use them. Technically they can use them now (since all language versions have the same license), but in order for the Spanish version to use them someone would have to download it and then re-upload it to shared. There's been some talk about making everything uploaded to Shared anyway, so you'd be ahead of the game. I wouldn't bother you about it if you weren't contributing so many neat pictures - I really think the other versions could benefit from your contributions. -- Fastestdogever 11:54, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Lincoln Highway[edit]

I created this page & added a basic outline. Have you ever driven it? Any clue how long it would take? The Route 66 page worked out pretty well, so check there for inspiration on a good way format an itinerary (especially one that covers many states). -- Fastestdogever 12:28, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Route 66 is a fine article. I do not think I am the guy for a Lincoln Highway page, but it would be a great trip for one visiting USA. I am now uploading photos to Wikishared as you suggested. 2old 14:06, 4 May 2007 (EDT)


Have you considered becoming a docent for some of the places you live or know very well? All you have to do is add


at the bottom of the page & it'll show up. That way if someone has a detailed question that wouldn't normally be covered in a guide, they can ask you. -- Fastestdogever 16:35, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

Yucatan Hammock[edit]

This seems like an odd topic for an article. - Todd VerBeek 15:06, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Although I originally did not spell it right, it is an unusual way of resting. I thought it appropriate for The Yucatan and is linked to that page. If you are not familar with one and you backpack, you may want to try one. Agreed it is unusual. 2old 15:12, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
No, what I mean is that it's unusual to make a whole article about travel accessory for a travel guide. It doesn't match any of the things described in Wikitravel:What is an article?. Maybe it would be better as a sidebar in the Yucatan article? - Todd VerBeek 16:10, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
I see. Hmm. I thought it not of enough consequence to include on the Article, so I hid it. Apparently you are speaking of the gay accorn type situation someone created on the Ohio page. The problem is, I do not know how to do that. If you think it is appropriate to the article and should be moved there, would you kindly move it, if not, you are welcome to quickly delete it or take whatever action you deem necessary. I never thought of it as a travel accessory, but something a bit more unique to the area. 2old 16:25, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
Info boxes are pretty easy - here's one if you want to try it out. -- Fastestdogever 16:34, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Title here
Text here

Thank you, young lady. I will try it tomorrow. 2old 16:46, 16 May 2007 (EDT)
OK. I moved it to a text box on the Yucatan page. However I liked it hidden better, but it appears I did not hide it properly. My web page experence in the past is only with Net Objects Fusion, this is a bit different. If I can not abbreviate the article (I mean subject), I will most likely delete it. 09:46, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Tiny images[edit]

You may want to check out How to add an image for the best way to add images. Usually, the leading pic is between 250-400px (although 400 may be a bit too large), and the others are usually 250px. Here's the formula: [[Image:filename of image|sizepx|description of image]] -- Fastestdogever 11:08, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Ohio's prehistoric sites[edit]

Yup, that's something that could be covered as an itinerary or a travel topic. Itineraries are articles that describe a route, rather than a single destination. That type of article would be something like "Three days of Ohio's prehistoric sites" and would be similar to an article like The Jazz Track or Route 66. Or you could make it a Travel topic, like "Ohio's prehistoric sites" which lists all of the sites & a description. Some examples of travel topics are Salsa dancing in Latin America or Golf in Thailand. It's up to you! -- Fastestdogever 17:59, 1 June 2007 (EDT)

Looks good - I did some minor formatting to the article. -- Fastestdogever 13:12, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
Cool article! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:48, 6 June 2007 (EDT)


I just checked out the Ohio guide and saw the lead photo you added to the guide and I wanted to stop by and say "thanks". The photo's awesome - quintessentially Ohio.

Anyhow, thanks for all the hard work. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 14:41, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

Just wanted to add in a note to say that while patrolling Special:Recentchanges over the past few weeks I've also noticed the many contributions you've made and also appreciate your efforts. I also like your login - while you and User:OldPine may be able to get away with "old" as it relates to much of the internet crowd, you might be surprised at how many regular contributors here fall into the 30-something and 40-something clubs! -- Ryan • (talk) • 03:01, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

Tibetan journeys[edit]

Thanks for the compliment, but actually those itineraries were the handy work of Celticevergreen. I just (annoyingly) edited some of them. However, I don't think those mountains are out of bounds to people until they reach their 70's. On two occasions while trekking in the Himalayas I have been passed by people in their late 60's - a Japanese group (who were like the road runner - wow) and a two British ladies. So, don't just read the articles. Try a few out. Ah, they are your employees, so no problem if they stumble on your user page. If they were colleagues, you might consider removing the picture! Take it easy. WindHorse 10:15, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Lodges & Parks[edit]

Thanks for the welcome back note - I've been home for a few days, but still trying to get out of ultra-lazy mode. I had checked the vfd discussion and saw that your question was being answered over there. Trust me - just about everyone that has been contributing for awhile has done something that others disagree with. It's bound to happen with so many people around. Keep up the awesome work on the Ohio pages you've put so much effort into. Oh, and I love what you said about your employees thinking you're busy when you're here! -- Fastestdogever 11:36, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Region listings[edit]

Hi. I wanted to explain my revisions in Southwest Ohio and Ross County. Generally we only have full listings in city/town articles. Regions just reference what city/town the attraction is in. Also, don't list the town in the town's article and almost never use the zip code. (Hey! you aren't just copying stuff in are you?? :)) Web links go at the end and have single brackets [], not double [[]] like the internal links. Just some hopefully, helpful tips. Sorry if I got in your way over there with cross edits. Saves some work if we get it right the first time though. Thanks for the efforts and a belated welcome. OldPine 14:11, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

Ha! No problem with the cut and paste, but you do have to change the words around a little to protect the innocent, or at least format it to our style. On the airport link, it's just something we've been doing... I guess it'll aid in some future endeavor to use them for locations... meanwhile it just explains to folks where the code comes from. As far as the guideline you asked about, see: this. It has all the listing formats. Not sure which one applied. For what goes into region articles see this. Will look into Mount Gilead. Hey, us old guys gotta stick together. OldPine 14:44, 29 June 2007 (EDT)

Disambiguation of new pages[edit]

I wanted to drop you a line about disambiguation of new pages. If there is no potential name conflicts (for example there is only one Upper Sandusky), you should name the article as Upper Sandusky rather than Upper Sandusky (Ohio). I usually check Wikipedia to see what the potential is for articles with other names. Probably it is better to err on the side of no disambiguation if there is not any other article with that name already. Disambiguation is explained (in a rather confusing way I think) at Wikitravel:Article naming conventions. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff to learn, but don't sweat it. It eventually is second nature. OldPine 10:20, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

Nice Pics![edit]

Got some nice pictures there, man. Makes me feel like a roadtrip! OldPine 15:33, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicago Skyline[edit]

Thanks for the positive feedback—I'm still a little unsure of what I'm doing with this travel topic and its nice to hear that you think it would be useful! Unfortunately, I don't have any skyline pictures that include the Museum Campus. These were the only usable panoramic shots I could find (with appropriate licenses). If you see any better ones, though, let me know—I could really use a better shot from the West Side than the one I've got. --Peter Talk 15:56, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

No worries about nosiness! My interest in Chicago's architecture is pretty casual—I just was so blown away by the vistas available on and around the river downtown and wanted to understand more about the various towering works of art that I saw. So all the information on this traveltopic is just internet research that I did. I really don't know the least bit about architecture generally. I'm very glad to hear that you find this guide useful; I was worried at first that it might just be a wild idea. --Peter Talk 17:27, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Ohio State Parks[edit]

Just to expand further... didn't want to waste more space on the VFD page... basically if a park is large enough and you can sleep in it and all, you can go ahead and create an article for that park. If not - if it's small, you can't spend the night in it - just list it in the region that it's in, such as Northwest Ohio (it would go under "Other destinations"). Hope that helps... and get back to work making Ohio and Ohio State Parks into great articles!

It would be really helpful if you could sort out where to put the list I left at Talk:Ohio, since you know the state. Basically, if a lodge is 30 miles outside of Toledo, then it could be listed under Toledo#Get out. Or a lodge that is in the middle of nowhere could be listed in Southeast Ohio, etc. And if a lodge is within a state park, then that state park qualifies for its own article... so if it doesn't have one already, make one for it, using the park template, and list the lodge there.

Thanks again! – cacahuate talk 11:39, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

Just here to say "nice work" on the State Parks article. I'm on the other side of the planet but had a look at it after all the vfd discussion. Glad to see it is full of useful stuff. Pashley 11:51, 24 July 2007 (EDT)


Hey, where'd you find the pics of Louisville? I've been meaning to take some, but never got around to it. -- Fastestdogever 09:30, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Leamington (Ontario) vs Leamington[edit]

FYI - On towns like this where there are a very few small ones with the same name (and actually anytime the name hasn't been used already in Wikitravel you should probably do this) don't use the disambiguated version (the first one above), just cop the name for your article like the second one. Whoever makes the second article with that name should disambiguate both, make a disambiguation page and list that at Wikitravel:Links to disambiguating pages. Thanks. And thanks for your continuing work in that area. OldPine 16:59, 2 August 2007 (EDT)


Thank you for your message on my ja: user page, however, I have no idea what exactly you are talking about. What did I do wrong??--Shoestring 10:55, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Nothing, I thought I did. 2old 11:23, 4 August 2007 (EDT)
Shoestring added {{Location|somewhere}} tag to uncategorized images. It's good for someone wishes to find images for articles on other language version, when someone follows links from Shared main page to a category for wished destination. When you use a {{Imagecredit|...}} tag for your image, the Location tag is not needed. Because its location= field calls the Location tag internally, so the same categorization occurs. I think that the Imagecredit tag looks fine and is good for formatting, so please use the Imagecredit tag rather than the Location tag. -- Tatata 13:29, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Those images[edit]

Hello Mike, I want to say again that thank you for the photos!

Going on to the main subject, I may not understand your true intent, but I have to say something about this... The license of the text and the images by the contributor is currently not clear. Still I am suspicious of him/her, though it said "I have all the rights". Maj tried to contact, but I have not heard the result from her at this time. -- Tatata 11:33, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

My true intent, is to contact the creator. Those were as good as it gets, in my mind. I would like to know how to use photoshop to remove haze from photos. I know it can be done as well as removing yellow from old photos. I know how to do the yellow thing, but cannot find the haze remover tool. 2old 11:40, 4 August 2007 (EDT)
Sorry for misunderstanding. There is a photo credits page on the site, but it's hard to reach the real creator. [2]
About Photoshop, Japanese page of Adobe Photoshop 7.0 said that the Tone Curve function is used for faded/discolored photos. Sorry this is my limit because I have never used it... ;=) I'll go to bed tonight. Have a good day! -- Tatata 13:32, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Images on shared:[edit]


I left messages on your shared: talk page about images without a license and VFD. -- Tatata 23:17, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

Bzz. bzzz Bz[edit]

Bzzzz Bz zzzzz Bz Bzzzzz? Workerbee 13:38, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

Cleveland cleanup[edit]

Hey it would be great to see a general Cleveland cleanup! I confess that one of the big reasons I've wanted to fix up the Chicago guide is that it might spur others to do the same ;) In answer to your questions:

  1. The numbered links are weird, and no one likes them much, but that is the way they should display, per current policy. In any rate, its definitely best to use the listings tags (at the bottom of the edit window) for all listings so that we can automatically manipulate their format across the entire site if we make a policy change.
  2. "1+ 999-666-7777" is close, but not quite. The + should come before the one, and it's not worth the bother to italicize the one, since italics won't display in the listings templates. +1 999-666-7777, +1 999 666-7777, or +1 999 666-7777 are all valid ways to do it, so feel free to pick whichever format you like best. We'll eventually standardize these, but that will happen automatically, not by hand.
  3. Front linked listings are evil and against policy. No one really likes the current link formats, but a recent attempt to build a consensus for any other specific option failed miserably. Bold type shouldn't be used excessively, but it is quite useful as a tool to help people skim articles by calling out important topics. I think the main Chicago article is a good example of how to effectively use bold face type.

Hope that helps, and if you have any more questions that I could help with, you know where to find me ;) --Peter Talk 16:59, 5 September 2007 (EDT)


2old can you help my wiki travel pages?

I looked at your contributions and I would suggest you first register as a user and not make any more pages until you better understand this project. Your pages will most likely be deleted by the site administrators (I am not one.) Registering as a user will be a good start. 2old 12:03, 7 September 2007 (EDT)


Thanks a lot for the offer on my talk page, but I have another digital camera coming. Pashley 10:32, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

Regarding the admin nominations[edit]

Thanks a ton. Upamanyuwikitravel( Talk )( Travel ) • 06:35, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the offer. I've only been to one state in the US so far, and that was New York. I was only 5 at that time, and I spent more time in the plane and less on American soil. (You can also count NJ because my flight was to Newark :) ) If I ever visit the states in the near future, I'll certainly try to go to Ohio. Upamanyuwikitravel( Talk )( Travel ) • 07:05, 21 September 2007 (EDT)
Ohio is seriously one of the best states to visit for anyone. Cincinnati has history, strong artistic and cultural heritage, great food, but most importantly - the Bengals. Columbus has lots of arts, college, its the capital, and has endless opportunities. Cleveland is a beautiful town, well, at least the downtown area was. I, personally, don't like Cleveland very much compared to Columbus, Cincinnati, or other Midwestern towns. I was seriously disappointed by the The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, which also increased my distaste for Cleveland. In Cleveland's defense, it does have some of the most fascinating architecture in all of Ohio. Plus, Ohio is quintessentially American - rolling farmlands, lakes, yet it has metropolises with endless opportunities for entertainment and education. I recommend the University of Cincinnati, though ;). Even an American President attended UC.
Afterwards, you'll need to be sure to visit Indy and Philly, but DO NOT go to Pittsburgh. It's the worst city in the world for anyone to go to! -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:53, 23 September 2007 (EDT)
Hey now, I love Pittsburgh! --Peter Talk 11:34, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the advice, folks! Upamanyuwikitravel( Talk )( Travel ) • 05:03, 24 September 2007 (EDT)


Hi Mike,

I just glanced over the Cleveland article. By the way, sorry for taking so long to reply. Cleveland will need a lot of work to get into shape, but if you and I tackle it with the possible help of Ryan we could get it done in a fairly short time. Most noticeably, we need contact info and better descriptions for most listings.

Also, we need to trim the Cleveland proper article down and make sure no information is duplicated on it and the district guides. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:53, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

I have taken a swipe at cleaning up the Cleveland article. Honestly, I do not know where to go from here. Cleveland is trying to "clean up". I was impressed the last time I visited. However, when a big part of your industry leaves, things are bound to go downhill. Plus, I do not have the jounralistic skills to add much to any article. I pretty much limit myself to brief descriptions and hope the spelling is right. I hope you are enjoying Poland and fill us in. 2old 11:11, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

Image:O'Hare Neon Walkway.jpg[edit]

Thanks, but I can only take credit for having sifted it from the chaff—I'm not the photographer for this one! --Peter Talk 14:36, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Bristol and the AT[edit]

Hi, Mike. Dunno if you noticed that the AT link was removed from Bristol (which is the Bristol in England. Was it Bristol (Connecticut) that you were aiming at? -- OldPine 11:23, 23 November 2007 (EST)

Nope, Bristol, Tenn., you know the home of Tennesee Ernie Ford and NASCAR. I thought I had checked all those links, but thank you for catching that. I am surprised that Bristol and Johnson City have no WT articles. Both are travel destinations. 2old 12:17, 23 November 2007 (EST)
Yeah, one would think those would get covered. Only a matter of time before someone does a NASCAR itinerary I suppose. --OldPine 12:34, 23 November 2007 (EST)

NASCAR etc[edit]

Agree with your comments and perspective. I took a quick look right away and notice that we do not list any racing in the USA "Do" section under Professional Sports. I am probably the farthest thing from an auto racing fan (can't really say why...just a preference), but I agree it's wildly popular in the US and should be more prominent.

Just before I noticed your edit I was looking at Washington (D.C.) and noticed that the See (and Do) sections have very little, mostly just a reference to a 4 day itinerary. I don't think there's any mention of places like the US Mint. There's a lotta empty holes out there, pardner. -OldPine 12:34, 24 November 2007 (EST)

The vandal[edit]

You're welcome.

This gay-travel thing is completely out of hand. That guy apparently has no life and no need for sleep. A permanent solution will require at least a change in the open-proxy policy, and that might not suffice... -- Bill-on-the-Hill 15:16, 27 November 2007 (EST)

  • I am not a gay traveler, but I would like to put that guy on a gay cruise ship and let them deal with him. 2old 15:21, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Why don't you stay off the Holmes County page?[edit]

You shouldn't post about that which you know nothing.

Please step aside and let people who know what they are doing correct your atrociously poor information.

  • Another satisfied customer. Please discuss edits on discussion page of Holmes County. MS

Thanks for the welcome back ... Not much access[edit]

Take it easy..... WindHorse 11:52, 29 November 2007 (EST)

Santa's Grotto[edit]

Well, darnit, the site was still working fine when I added it. I've taken it out now. Jpatokal 17:35, 26 December 2007 (EST)

Admin nomination[edit]

Hey Mike, I've nominated you as an administrator! Please indicate whether you are willing to accept the role. --Peter Talk 06:31, 23 January 2008 (EST)

Wandering (in)[edit]

Hey there 2Old. Thanks for the kind words (your email)! I haven't wandered off, just decided that some distance from wikitravel would be appropriate. It's no skin of my back whether the contentious images are kept or deleted (I'm not exactly going around peddling guidebooks that use these, or any other, pictures!) and could see no reason to get into an ugly fight over them. Since I usually can't keep my mouth shut, I decided to wander off for a bit instead. Anyway, I'm around again. You just won't see me commenting on votes for deletion and those sorts of things! --Wandering 15:51, 18 February 2008 (EST)

I hate being made to shut up but I realize I fell into the fundamental trap that the Buddha warns us of "Therefore don't take a liking to anything. To lose what one likes is hard, but there are no bonds for those who have no likes and dislikes." I guess I got too involved with the wikitravel idea. You, with your rejection of the admin nomination, are much wiser. Also, I do suspect that what is merely a theoretical issue to me is of practical importance to the people publishing guide books. As my finance professor used to say (if that's not the perfect companion phrase for the one from the Buddha, I don't know what is!), "never step on the cash flow!". Nah. The kinder and gentler wandering gazes at wikitravel with an avuncular eye and says, "let them have their images!" --Wandering 17:16, 18 February 2008 (EST)


That was the other Buddah. The one that said "Opinions are like belly buttons, irritating when tickled." I think wikitravel is a great idea and will do fine with or without you me and dupree (jpatokal). WTP is not a bad idea either, I don't see how these pages can be independently useful without some kind of fact checking and leg work - which, I hope, they are doing. It would be nicer if WTP were run as a non-profit but we don't live in a perfect world. It would be nice too if the individuals profiting from the many contributions freely offered here went the extra mile (I'll take an inch!) to be nice to contributers (where has gone?). But, we don't live in a perfect world. I think I wandered in to wikitravel blindly (that is in the nature of a wanderer) thinking it was just another wiki like wikipedia and now realize that it is not. But then, it is not a perfect world! IMHO, the first improvement that this project needs is some clarification on the relationship between WTP and WT. In particular, is there a relationship? Why are WTP ads allowed but not, say, Lonely Planet ads (I can think of several good reasons but would like to hear something from the WTP people)? How does WT intend to handle conflict of interest issues between admins and guidebook owner/editors? How will WT protect its contributers (most of whom will never profit from it) but also serve the needs of the guidebook guys? How can WT make the guidebook publication process inclusive rather than exclusive? It does seem to me that the guidebook guys are mostly acting in good faith but I wish they would clarify first and do later. For now, I prefer to sleep soundly at night! --Wandering 17:50, 19 February 2008 (EST)

My point (you me and dupree) was that wikitravel will not be affected if a particular user chooses not to contribute, whether that particular user be Wandering, 2Old or jpatokal. There are many new users signing up every day and the site will go on and thrive. It has clearly reached a critical mass of articles and users and I'm sure that IB and WTP can see that very clearly. It is a good product, no doubt about that. --Wandering 16:31, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Charitable Ads[edit]

Hey 2old, thanks for keeping the ball rolling on this... It's a very worthy endeavor... Afraid I'm often away from from internet these days, so not able to contribute much to the debate. At the moment, just spending a few days at home and enjoying the luxury of broadband connection... though will be out of contact again soon... Take it easy, man... really wish you success with IB... WindHorse 10:20, 4 March 2008 (EST)


Sorry to say I didn't make it there—from a travel perspective, the trip was not a resounding success. The campaign kept me busy and exhausted daily, and on the two nights when I set forth on adventures, I was largely thwarted by snow and ice. Kind of amazing really—I was prevented from visiting Hell by all the snow! To top it off, I forgot my camera at home. I did at least get to visit the Toledo Art Museum, which was great, and Detroit, which was overwhelmingly big and alien. --Peter Talk 19:21, 6 March 2008 (EST)

New pics[edit]

Sorry, I've actually got lots of pics ready to go, but just haven't gotten around to uploading them. Will try to remedy that today... Jpatokal 02:38, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Local culture[edit]

You stated that the article was already covered in "understand and respect". Where is that article, so I can see if there's anything I can still add/transform 11:44, 23 August 2008 (EDT)

Still here[edit]

I've been lurking and getting my kicks as a voyeur! Meanwhile, life has become impossibly crazy and, at least for a bit, travel seems to be a distant dream (though I am off to Madrid for a couple of days next month). I notice you've been slipping in and out of wikitravel as well. Anything interesting, project wise? You should think about publishing one of these wikitravel 'hot-of-the-press' guide things. --Wandering 15:01, 22 October 2008 (EDT)

...and this is why I like it here[edit]

Thanks. The "annoys the pig" bit reminds me why it sometimes seems therapeutic to contribute here :) Glad to see you back. -- Ryan • (talk) • 12:14, 26 November 2008 (EST)

Highway navigation box[edit]

Hi there. I have proposed a new sort of navigation box here. I would really appreciate your input. Texugo 06:47, 5 December 2008 (EST)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm excited to see this get rolling! Texugo 12:00, 20 December 2008 (EST)


Thanks. Unfortunately my exams are on so I'll be busy till April, and then there's the Cricket World T20 and exams again.... :( so I may not get much time to contribute in the coming 6 months.... Upamanyuwikitravel( Talk )( Travel ) • 02:48, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

coin facts wiki[edit]

Hey there, I saw your link in Janis talk page, and while it's off topic from this site, I looked through it a tiny bit and it looks like a good site. Good job! Good luck there. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 18:49, 27 May 2009 (EDT).

Please see the following of why I changed the Puerto Vallarta Information[edit]

Just so you know, I have traveled all over the world and am well traveled. Individuals need to know this information.

I have had many good experiences in Mexico; however, I can say I will never go back until they get their crime under control. Not the petty crime that takes place everywhere. I mean the real crime, the police in Mexico. They are as corrupt as they come. We just got back from what was supposed to be a nice vacation for my partner’s 50th birthday. Our truncated trip was to Puerto Vallarta a place we have been numerous times and have often recommended to friends and family. We were stopped and arrested by the Mexican Police as we were walking down a sidewalk and doing absolutely nothing. It was a dark street and no one around. The police pickup truck did not say “police” on the side that was visible to us. Two men got out of the white pickup and approached us. (Keep in mind that we were aware that crime has been on the rise in Mexico and we know from friends who have been victims themselves.) We kept walking a bit faster to get to a lighted corner. I began whistling loudly and buzzed a nearby Hotel's buzzer to get peoples attention and started yelling for the police. After a few local people came out to see what was happening, they tried to resolve the problem with the police. The police did not want to let them help translate. The "police" then frisked us, handcuffed us together and put us in the back of their beer can littered truck bed. Then they handcuffed us to the bed of the truck, drove us down a deserted road, stopped the truck, but eventually took us to the police station about 30 minutes away. After an hour cuffed to an outside bench, they interrogated us, made us use a breathalyzer, smelled our fingers for drugs, and then put us in jail cell for over 8 hours. Never once did they tell us why they approached us to begin with or how long we would have to stay. We asked to contact the US Consulate and/or make a phone call. They told us that we would be able to do so later and that they would contact the US Consulate, but neither was done. When we asked again, they mocked us, saying they would contact the Consulate. Finally we were told that we would have to stay for twelve hours and we were arrested for aggressiveness. A Mexican Immigration official came shortly afterward, we explained what had transpired and he told us that immigration had no issue with us and that we could stay or go without a problem. We asked him if he could contact the US Consulate and he said that he would get in trouble with the police. It was quite obvious that he knew that we were jailed wrongly. He then said he would see what he could do to get us free. Eventually someone came up to us and said that we could get a lawyer, that happened to be there, and each pay his $500 peso fee and get out of jail within a short amount of time. If we did not use him, we would have to stay eight more hours which was four hours more than originally told and that we would “probably” be released at that time without a fee. Obviously, we paid the fee which amounted to about $40 dollars each, we were not allowed to have copies of any of the paper work and had to sign it without reading it. This whole ordeal is one that should never even have happened. A few other notes you should know. The jail cell smelled of urine, there was a broken toilet that leaked all over the floor; there was no bench or anything to sit on other than the floor. There were bugs and flys all around. The handcuffs cut my wrist. I have bruises on my arms. My wrist is swollen and sore to the touch as well as my back. When the officer put me in the open bed truck he told me that he would have me deported the next day. The other officers were talking among themselves and referred to us as maricón or faggots and said we don’t need people like you here. Each time I saw the police when we were heading back to the hotel, I felt sick to my stomach. Needless to say, we left on the first flight we could get back to Chicago and gave up the rest of the vacation.

I recommend that you let other people know that this is a common event in Puerto Vallarta and all of Mexico. Please be careful if you are traveling there and maybe reconsider your plans to a place that is more worthy of your travel dollars.

The local businesses are aware of the problem and have been trying to do something about it. Please read the article from PV's news.

  • Thank you for your comments. I think your comments on the Puerto Vallarta page may have been more accurate had you mentioned that this may have been an arrest that may have been driven by homophobic reasoning. As you know, there is a large area of Puerto Vallarta that is pretty much devoted to the gay visitor, and they seem to be well received. I am not suggesting that gays should be restricted to a certain area of any community, but gays should be sensitive to the homophobic fears of others. Mexicans have a strict Roman Catholic heritage that is reflected in the attitudes of their military and law enforcement personnel. I do not think you can expect much sensitivity from most of them. Likely they were playing with you, or taunting you. I can see this as a reason to warn gays against open affection or flaunting in areas not dedicated to the gay visitor, but I do not think it is a reason to try to crucify the entire community, nor make it sound as if they Police are terrorists. I have found Puerto Vallarta to be a tranquil, sleepy place to visit. And I enjoyed it. 2old 14:44, 10 November 2009 (EST)