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Talk:Between Sanur and Ubud

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I'm not sure if this is trying to be a region or a itinerary. I think the info currently in the article would do well as part of a get out from either Sanur or Ubud (probably Ubud as it's the bigger destination). Comments, thoughts? Maj 15:26, 10 January 2007 (EST)

I'd also pip for moving this to Ubud. Jpatokal 01:24, 11 January 2007 (EST)
I started the page, and would disagree about folding it into Ubud. I think the "craft villages" are a distinct destination, separated by some distance, and if I remember correctly, they perhaps get a separate section in a certain travel book whose initials are LP. Not to slight Ubud, but it's become very touristy and is mostly a conglomeration of tourist gift shops, internet cafes, restaurants, and small hotels. It's not clear if anyone makes anything there any more. The craft villages, in contrast, seem to be the center of the export trade in Bali, and still have active workshops scattered about. Nearly everyone with schemes of importing Balinese crafts to their home countries will spend serious time there. There are many large showrooms with a much bigger selection of stuff.
Ubud presents a total experience -- food, shopping, atmosphere, attractions, etc. The craft villages are more one-dimensional -- for serious shopping.
This article on the craft villages could be much expanded with information that would be very useful to people looking for high-end artwork and people trying to do business there, as well as the tourists who are stopped off there on their day tours. Lots could be written about the different showrooms, what they offer, what appropriate prices are, background on Balinese crafts, etc. -- all of which could overwhelm the Ubud article and distract from the relevant information about Ubud for people going to Ubud for what Ubud is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by (talkcontribs) 22 Jan 2006
It could, but at the moment, it doesn't. So how about putting it under Ubud for now, and if it really is about to get buried under an avalanche of craft shopping, then it can be sloughed off. Jpatokal 04:32, 22 January 2007 (EST)
It seems to me that Wikis provide value when you plant seeds and let them grow. Lots of people are passing through the craft villages every day, accumulating experience on shopping there, and if they have a framework in which to deposit their findings, they will do it. But if you kill the seed, they won't do it. It's a matter of philosophy -- what is more important here -- current neatness of the section and conformance to rules, or the ultimate value of the material to readers.
What really needs to be done to the article is to start building an outline, naming the villages, and adding some content to set an example for what other travelers can add. I unfortunately don't remember the names of any place I saw when I visited in October. The article would depend on future travelers who will keep the business cards and make notes, because they know there is a framework in place for sharing the information.
They need to find the information first, and if it's hidden under "Between Sanur and Ubud" they aren't going to find it. There are lots of craft villages also along the southern road from Denpasar to Ubud, and I'm sure you can find them north and east as well -- does it make sense to put them too in their own articles? Jpatokal 04:58, 22 January 2007 (EST)
Perhaps you are right, the article should be retitled "Craft Villages" to be more informative. That nameless guidebook mentioned five, as I recall, each with a traditional specialty. All are on the road from Sanur to Ubud. The ones I recall are Mas (wood carving), Celuk (Jewelry.) I don't have my guidebook with me anymore (and don't really understand how to create outlines in this system). It's my impression from having been through the area three times over six years, that the identity of the villages is blurring, and you will no longer see only product A in village A. New showrooms are opened where it's convenient for the owner. But that's just an impression, and others would know more.
It might also be true that commercialization of the area has driven some artisans to other places, and that other villages have always had outstanding stuff to be seen. It might be true that the "craft villages" have evolved into a retail center where crafts are aggregated from around the islands and shown to tourists and wholesale buyers. Good advice might be to bypass the big showrooms and go to less tour-bussed places where artisans really live and work. But the perfect is the enemy of the good, and I think it's a good start to document the offerings of the five traditional "craft villages." The craft villages are a worthy subject because they are the center of big showrooms where you can see a lot quickly; and they have some very nice stuff; and many day tours go through there, so the information will be useful to a lot of travelers.
My suggestion would be to start with an umbrella article, and maybe separate them later into one per village if and when there is enough content and it makes sense. An alternative would be to create an outline by product category, and keep it one umbrella article for the long term, if it's true that the boundaries have been blurred.
I am admittedly not very useful in building the article for now, and won't have time until late next month. My motive for planting the seed is that I hope to go back to Bali some day, and it's frustrating to be wandering around there with inexact information, trying to find places your driver might or might not know about. I assume others would find the information valuable also.