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Talk:San Francisco

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Crime?
I absolutely hate the "Respect" section. Obviously written by some dumbass stoner who only lives to smoke and experience weed culture. Great jeorb, dude.
 
== Crime? ==
This quote about the mission district sounds misleading, like someone who lives in another part of the city heard it from someone and reported it here: "Two Hispanic gangs have been known to shoot or stab people for wearing the wrong color, so it is recommended to keep red or blue articles of clothing to a minimum while walking through the Mission District, especially around 16th and Mission and 24th and Mission." I lived in the mission for 3 years (east of mission street between the supposed gang zones) and I never thought twice about wearing blue and red. These gangs were primarily in fights with each other, not uninvolved neighbors. I think it would be much more useful to say "If you're worried about your safety, stay in populated areas (many areas of Mission until 2am on weekends or 10pm on weeknights). Also, avoid wearing flash items that look like they could be easily stolen, like that $3000 Hermes bag." Or something better written. Advice? Disagreements? - lirani
 
:That addition sounds like advice that's applicable pretty much anywhere, not specifically San Francisco. The Mission section does seem rather overblown (it's no Hunters Point!), perhaps it's best to simply delete most of it? - [[User:Dguillaime|Dguillaime]] 01:51, 25 February 2009 (EST)
 
 
:Been partying at ungodly hours in the Mission around those blocks for years. Never had a problem. Sounds like an uneducated guess. You don't bother anyone, no one bothers you. Just go with 4-5 friends and it's a blast. Gangsters aren't out for random strangers, they're out for each other.
== A stub ? ==
-[[User:PierreAbbat|phma]] 18:18, 25 Mar 2004 (EST)
 
Hi folks!
 
Please take a closer look towards the San Fran district map.
I spotted serveral improvements which should be made: the "avenues" should be replaced with the "sunset district", I miss Pacific heights and Richmond district! Could please someone who lives there take care of it.
 
:"The Avenues" is just our name for that district. It covers Sunset, Richmond, and Golden Gate Park. Renaming it "Sunset" would ignore the fact that Richmond is in there too. ;) [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:47, 10 December 2008 (EST)
== Underscores ==
Locals don't use "Avenue" and "Street" in referring to places? This seems like a silly guess at best. After all, where in San Francisco is 3500 19th? Is that the Sunset or the Mission?
 
 
in that case they would add avenue or street, but most of the time people seem to use intersections instead of addresses. they tend to say things like say "19th and mission". [[User:I remember Black Star North|I remember Black Star North]] 16:16, 24 February 2009 (EST)
== Strike ==
:: Given that neither of the above-mentioned venues are open yet they shouldn't be listed in Wikitravel. Similarly, it might be worth reviewing some of the contributions from the user in question to verify that they are in good-faith and follow Wikitravel policies. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 20:38, 7 February 2008 (EST)
== Alkatraz Alcatraz Island ==
Without taking a full blown boat tour of the area as well as the island; Is there a ferry to just Alkatraz Alcatraz Island and tour of the prison? We will be in San Francisco beginning July 8th until the 11th. Thanks
: The only tour to Alcartraz (BTW, that's the correct spelling) Alcatraz is a ferry to the island & a tour of the prison. Book ahead, weekend tours are usually sold out two weeks ahead. Don't know what you mean by 'full blown boat tour of the area'.
: Also, check the side panel on http://wikitravel.org/en/San_Francisco#See -- [[User:Arunan|Arunan]]
::::Asterix won't be contributing anymore, alas&mdash;she was one of the best contributors on Wikitravel, and this is a real loss for the site. I'm really not hesitant to call the remaining articles guides (with the exception of the too short Twin Peaks-Lake Merced article); I've spent enough time looking at district articles to know a guide when I see one, and [[Wikitravel:City guide status|guides]] don't have the "complete" requirement that stars do. The usable status on those other articles just looks anachronistic to me. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:14, 14 November 2008 (EST)
:::::I'd like to make this happen&mdash;star status is given to articles principally so contributors can look over them as a model for what an article should ideally be. This guide is clearly a good model. All that needs to be done is to add a bit to [[San Francisco/Twin Peaks-Lake Merced]] and a listing or two to [[San Francisco/Union Square-Financial District#Do]]. With four star districts, and only two usables left to push to guide status, this is worth doing. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:26, 4 March 2009 (EST)
 
:::::: COTM for this or next month - we could maybe just do the district? I have no objection to revising the schedule to SF this month, Rome next month and Copenhagen following (which is not ready for the tasks set out anyway). Or we could just push SF into next month. --[[User:Sertmann|Stefan (sertmann)]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Sertmann|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:30, 4 March 2009 (EST)
 
::::::: I think those two districts have more of a content problem, which from reading [[Wikitravel:Collaboration of the month#Nominate]], isn't something a COTM would help much. COTMs seem to shoot more for the little, itty-bitty tasks that anyone can do without any prior knowledge of the place. Anyway - I'm sure I can find something for the Union Square-Financial District Do section (there's bound to be a couple of theaters I can list). Twin Peaks - Lake Merced looks like it might take a bit more work, but it's so close... I am definitely excited to get San Francisco to star status, although the issue of the Events section (see below) does bug me a bit. Not a huge hurdle, but something I would like to see taken care of before we nominate SF for star. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:03, 4 March 2009 (EST)
 
:::::::::Yeah, I think SF honestly doesn't need a CotM. If I could work up the motivation, I could probably get it there if I put my nose to the grindstone for ~four hours. If John's helping out, it would be less than that. It's ''really'' close. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:14, 4 March 2009 (EST)
 
Okay, with all the work I've been doing making a Wikitravel Press book for SF, I'd like to revisit the idea of making this a star article - it'd be a huge achievement for the article. Basically, there are two things left to address before we make SF a star, and they both require the knowledge of locals (or just someone who's familiar with these neighborhoods):
 
* Twin Peaks-Lake Merced is still at usable status, and no huge city article can be at star status with any districts at usable. The big obstacle to getting TP-LM to guide status is a lack of Buy, Eat and Drink listings, and a lack of descriptions in the listings that are already there. The main business districts in the area are West Portal and around SFSU, yet we have no listings from those areas.
 
* Another problem is in the Castro article. I think we may have jumped the gun a little in putting it at guide status, because it is severely lacking in the Drink section - there are no gay bars whatsoever. Considering that's gonna be one of the major attractions in such a well known district, it just seems like a major oversight.
 
So I'm calling on anyone who is familiar with these neighborhoods to ''please'' add this missing info. Then we can finally give the SF article the full recognition it deserves. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:46, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
 
: If all else fails, you might scout [http://www.yelp.com/search?rpp=10&cflt=gaybars&find_loc=castro%2C+San+Francisco%2C+CA Yelp] and use the reviews there as a starting point. [[User:Gorilla Jones|Gorilla Jones]] 01:55, 21 May 2009 (EDT)
 
:: Taking Gorilla Jones' advice, I've at least partially addressed these two issues. Anyone else have any further thoughts? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 07:48, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
==Events==
As someone not familiar to San Francisco, it'd be nice if the Events section included more than just one event. :) I've heard of the Bay to Breakers thing, as well as a few others that sounded really interesting. I would like to ask a native (because I'm definitely not qualified) to add a bit of info on some of these events. Maybe include http://www.onlyinsanfrancisco.com/calendar/ as a reference. Thanks! [[User:24.144.54.90|24.144.54.90]] 04:26, 24 November 2008 (EST)
 
:I agree that it would be nice to highlight a few more big events in this section of the main article. But have you looked through the district articles? There are a lot of event listings in [[San_Francisco/Fisherman's_Wharf#Events_and_festivals]] and [[San_Francisco/Golden_Gate#Events and festivals]], for example. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:22, 24 November 2008 (EST)
 
::Yes, I do not get why you wouldn't look there. It says right at the top to look at them and there is a whole section dedicated to it! <font color="red">Keep Smiling,</font> [[User:Edmontonenthusiast|<font color="#339989">'''edmontonenthusiast [ee]'''</font>]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Edmontonenthusiast|<font color="#8848d7">'''.T.A.L.K.'''</font>]]</small></sup> 14:25, 24 November 2008 (EST).
 
:I'm all for adding more events to the section. In fact, the only reason why there's so few events there now is because that is the result of my rearranging the Do section into nice smaller sections. I'd say more events there are a must; feel free to add any major ones as you see fit (I'm speaking to anyone who is interested here). [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:26, 24 November 2008 (EST)
 
:::Thanks Per. I am thinking-San Francisco-the next Chicago on Wikitravel? <font color="red">Keep Smiling,</font> [[User:Edmontonenthusiast|<font color="#339989">'''edmontonenthusiast [ee]'''</font>]] <sup><small>[[User talk:Edmontonenthusiast|<font color="#8848d7">'''.T.A.L.K.'''</font>]]</small></sup> 19:32, 24 November 2008 (EST).
 
Okay, I've gone to task on the Events section. If anyone could add any major ones I may have missed, feel free to do so. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:31, 7 March 2009 (EST)
 
==Districts status==
 
{| border=1
|-
! District
! Status
! To do
|-
| [[San Francisco|Front Page]]
| style="background:#a5ed57;" | Star
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Golden Gate|Golden Gate]]
| style="background:#a5ed57;" | Star
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Fisherman's Wharf|Fisherman's Wharf]]
| style="background:#a5ed57;" | Star
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Nob Hill-Russian Hill|Nob Hill-Russian Hill]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" |Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Chinatown-North Beach|Chinatown-North Beach]]
| style="background:#a5ed57;" | Star
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Union Square-Financial District|Union Square-Financial District]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" |Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Civic Center-Tenderloin|Civic Center-Tenderloin]]
| style="background:#a5ed57;" | Star
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/SoMa|SoMa]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" |Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Western Addition|Western Addition]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Haight|Haight]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/The Avenues|The Avenues]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Twin Peaks-Lake Merced|Twin Peaks-Lake Merced]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Castro-Noe Valley|Castro-Noe Valley]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Mission-Bernal Heights|Mission-Bernal Heights]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|-
| [[San Francisco/Southeast|Southeast]]
| style="background:#ccff66;" | Guide
|
|}
 
== Star Nomination Discussion ==
 
===[[San Francisco]]===
This is something of a delayed nomination - the last major improvement to the SF guides was done in the leadup to the launch of the [http://www.wikitravelpress.com/books/en/SanFrancisco/ Wikitravel Press book]. It was only recently that it crossed my mind, "Hey, this might be a star now." It has 14 district articles, with four of those already stars (the other 10 are guides).
 
Just as a little background; the San Francisco guides were one of the most incredible turnarounds I've ever seen on Wikitravel. As of early 2008, the main city article, while firm, had ''way'' too many neighborhood articles, most of which were tiny and lacked content. After me and [[User:Asterix]] (who I credit for almost singlehandedly bringing the star to the SF district articles that have it) put the current district system in place, the guides quickly blossomed into one of the finest city guides on Wikitravel. Today there isn't as much activity, but the SF guides are blessed by the occasional contributor who helps to keep it up-to-date (which has made my job as WTP editor a lot easier).
 
So let's give this jewel of an article the star it deserves. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:58, 20 March 2010 (EDT)
 
:*<s>'''Almost'''</s> '''Support'''.
 
:First, SF ''needs'' to become a star. It's an excellent example of what a huge city should look like. Second, my apologies up front for the bait and switch, since the things I said were necessary before starring, on the article talk page, have been fulfilled, but I'm adding more anyway ;)
 
:The one clear essential change before starring is the '''districts map'''. To qualify as "Wikitravel-style map," I'd say it needs a title, compass rose, and scale—and even more crucially a modifiable SVG source! The other thing I'd really like to see done before starring would be to change the "see" and "sports" sections from '''bullet points to prose'''.
 
:Other things that stuck out, but are less essential:
 
:#IWBN to add descriptions to sleep listings where missing. This seems to be more of an issue in the less-visited outer districts.
:#How do you pronounce Haight? ;)
:#I'd strongly encourage the addition of '''literature and film sections''' to the main article's understand for a carefully selected sample of some of the best that are especially relevant to understanding San Francisco.
:#I'd recommend moving the "highlight walks" to an '''"itineraries"''' subsection of "see."
:#Add more to the '''buy section'''—highlight other opportunities for shopping in neighborhoods other than the two currently listed. Surely there are interesting buys in Little Japan, Chinatown, etc? It shouldn't be hard to come up with this, since the details needed for "research" are already in the district articles!
 
:I haven't yet done a thorough read-through for grammar and other nitty-gritty, but knowing your work, that's probably already taken care of! --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:29, 20 March 2010 (EDT)
 
:*'''Very nearly'''. Superb example of a huge city article. The high standard of writing is especially laudable. In addition to Peter's comments above, I have the following points about format and content, all of which should be easy to put right.
:#On the maps, I would like to see them both using an inset title box, and the currently approved park and water patterns, all as per the current standard [[Wikitravel: How to draw a map|Wikitravel map instructions]].
:#A Stay healthy section is required I think. If nothing else, an overview and of the hospital A&E situation, and listings for the main hospitals.
:#Understand would benefit significantly from an Orientation sub section.
:#Peter's point about film and literature is really valid. I can hardly think of a city that is more deserving of this than San Francisco. You could even call the sub section "Popular culture".
:I really look forward to seeing this one go to star. Great article about a great city.--[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 01:15, 21 March 2010 (EDT)
 
:::Strictly speaking, "Stay healthy" is required only in Country articles. Information about health facilities is important, of course. =) [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 16:42, 21 March 2010 (EDT)
 
::::Yep. Not so much a strict requirement as very desirable in a star city, district or region article I would say.--[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 22:59, 21 March 2010 (EDT)
 
:::::A couple of suggestions for the Literature and Movies sections: Tales of the City (counter culture reading that many users will immediately recognise) and Bullitt (as iconic as iconic gets). --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 23:13, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
 
* I think I've managed to cover all these suggestions except for Burmesedays' third point: there's already a section called "Finding your way around" under Get around, which seems to cover the same stuff as an Orientation section would. I could move it up to Understand and rename it "Orientation", but I prefer it where it is now; it makes sense to me that it would go under Get around (although it would probably be more visible if it was at the top of Get around, not the bottom). Or did I misunderstand what you were asking for? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 00:08, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
 
::Quick work! My issues have been addressed (although I still would like to know how to pronounce Haight), so I'm happy to finally support SF for a star. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 01:34, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
 
::: Same as "hate", with the ''a'' drawn out ever so slightly longer. -- [[User:Dguillaime|D. Guillaime]] 02:03, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
 
::::I've just added a note of the pronunciation to the [[San Francisco/Haight|Haight]] article. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:07, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
 
*'''Support''' It's well written and is an inspiration for a new voyage. Two points that should nevertheless considered: 1. Lietrature section is a bit hard to read. Maybe can someone change the listed books like in star [[Bali#Reading]]? It's much easier to read 2. A seperate map for Presidio would be good. Currently the legend for the map is huge and both areas could benefit from a significant scale. [[User:Jc8136|jan]] 03:57, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::Noted on the first point - I've changed most of the listings in the literature section (I left Jack Kerouac and Philip K. Dick as they were, given their fame and the fact that they wrote more than one thing based in SF). As to your second point, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're asking for - are you saying the map in [[San Francisco/Golden Gate#Get in|Golden Gate]] should be split into two maps, one for the Presidio and one for the neighborhoods? If so, I think I can manage that, but are you ''sure'' that needs to be done (it's a lot of work, so I want to be clear on how urgent you think this is)? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:18, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
::: Perry: Thank you for your fast response! You got my intention 100% correct and sorry that i was so brief on the Golden gat map. In my view the two maps would be a huge benefit but are non-essentiell for my star support. Do it when you have time. Great job, [[User:Jc8136|jan]] 17:14, 23 March 2010 (EDT)
:::: Cool, I'll try to get around to that - It's a great idea. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:49, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
 
*'''Nearly'''. I agree with all the points raised above, but I think the SF total map is not up to standard to other star quality maps. It definitely needs a scale, arrow, road names, some public transport, etc. Just look at [[Washington, D.C.]] or [[Chicago]] for good examples. --[[User:Globe-trotter|globe-trotter]] 11:21, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
::Not sure what you're looking for here - there's a districts map, a road map, and a public transport map, with scales and arrows (except for the public transport map, which I'll fix), just like the Chicago page. What are we missing here? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:49, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
 
* '''Support''', great article! But I also miss some road names and public transport on the first map in the article. Further, the text on the map should be DejaVu, I guess, --[[User:ClausHansen|ClausHansen]] 19:21, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
::Okay, that's a little more clear. I can certainly add road names, although I think adding public transport to the districts map will really clutter it up. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 22:10, 24 March 2010 (EDT)
:::All of my original points covered and thanks for that. I see that Peter is having a go with the maps and I will reserve final comment until those are finished. I am sure it will be full support though. I really like this article. --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 23:45, 28 March 2010 (EDT)
 
*'''Abstain'''. I just wonder why so many tours are listed in [[San Francisco#Bus/Driving_tours]]. I can trust that each one provide a value-added service, but it's unclear for many of the listings what is that added value. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 04:23, 31 March 2010 (EDT)
 
::A good point - to tell you the truth, looking at the [[Wikitravel:Activity listings#Tour listings|rule]] that "''Tours should offer something as a supplement, rather than a replacement for Wikitravel guides''", I'm not sure if ''any'' of the bus/driving tours should be in there (except maybe GoCar, but even there I'm not too sure). Can anyone else offer their opinion on this matter? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:41, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 
::: I've personally not removed the tour listings solely due to the fact that this article has been heavily edited by long-time users like yourself, so I figured the available listings had already been vetted. If that's not the case then I'd suggest taking them out. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 16:34, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 
:::: Well they all seem like legitimate tour operators (which is probably the main reason why removing them was never really considered), but I don't know if having them here helps achieve any of Wikitravel's goals (for instance, GoCar's front page has the phrase "put away the guidebook", something which I'm reasonably confident is not in the interest of Wikitravel). It's not as if any of these bus/driving tours go places or do things you can't reasonably access on your own. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:19, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 
::::: The [[Tour]] policy grew out of similar desperation as the [[Wikitravel:External links]] policy - we know there are worthwhile tours out there, but in the interest of preventing our guides from turning into spammy messes we draw a very hard line that is easily policed. None of the San Francisco tour listings seem to be obviously in compliance with our policies - most lack an address, and I don't think any meet the "you would be unlikely to do this on your own" threshold - so I'd suggest removing the entire lot of them. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 17:25, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 
:::::: Done - I've gone ahead and removed all the tour listings, not just the bus/driving ones, because the others I feel are reasonably covered in the district articles. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:00, 2 April 2010 (EDT)
 
For anyone who was holding out on a support vote, desiring improvements to the map, I have just uploaded a new spiffy one—[[San Francisco#Districts|check it out]]! --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:08, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
 
:Oh my cuss Peter; that's not a map, that's a work of art! My biggest thanks to you! [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:15, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
 
::'''Support''', that's what I meant with a star quality map. --[[User:Globe-trotter|globe-trotter]] 18:46, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
 
:::'''Full support'''. I was in support anyway but was curious to see the new map. That's a beauty. --[[User:Burmesedays|Burmesedays]] 22:12, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
 
'''Last call.''' It has now been three weeks and all concerns raised thus far have been addressed - are there any remaining issues before we slap on the star? [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:38, 10 April 2010 (EDT)
==Yelp==
 
I think we should included a mentiion of yelp in the eat and drink section. Since it is based in SF, it has a huge number of reviews and is helpful to locate places to eat. Someone from another country, or even someone from another part of the US might not realize how useful it is. (I'm a local and use it all the time).[[User:75.101.10.127|75.101.10.127]] 17:56, 26 October 2010 (EDT)
 
: See [[Wikitravel:External links]] for guidelines related to linking with other travel guides. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 18:03, 26 October 2010 (EDT)
 
==Hospitals & Religious Services==
 
The long list of hospitals and religious services in the [[San Francisco#Cope]] section is inappropriate for a star article - these should be moved to district articles, but I'm hesitant to add a "style" tag to a star article. An alternative would be to simply delete the list, as anything beyond 5-9 is of questionable value. Thoughts? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 15:43, 29 April 2011 (EDT)
:Based on how the discussion in the pub is shaping up, I say just delete the whole list. Moving it to the district articles wouldn't be much good - I mean, think about it: say you're a Mormon and there's only a couple of prominent Mormon churches in the city - how are you supposed to know which district article it's in? You're better off checking the phone book. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:51, 29 April 2011 (EDT)
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