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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Copyleft"

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:::This is a really important page, and for that reason alone (combined w/ the spam problem), I am sympathetic if not enthusiastic for an anon-level protection. But I'd like to add that it's really important that everyone keep in mind that this is an editable & collaborative policy, not some sort of set-in-stone law of Wikitravel. If we do protect, we should remain amenable to temporary un-protects to help anon editors revise this policy upon requests. And we should consider only protecting for a month or so, to see if the spammers move along.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:07, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 
:::This is a really important page, and for that reason alone (combined w/ the spam problem), I am sympathetic if not enthusiastic for an anon-level protection. But I'd like to add that it's really important that everyone keep in mind that this is an editable & collaborative policy, not some sort of set-in-stone law of Wikitravel. If we do protect, we should remain amenable to temporary un-protects to help anon editors revise this policy upon requests. And we should consider only protecting for a month or so, to see if the spammers move along.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:07, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 
::::Wise words, and I concur. Besides, it is apparent that the spammers' interest is rather periodic. [[User:Riggwelter|Riggwelter]] 14:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
 
::::Wise words, and I concur. Besides, it is apparent that the spammers' interest is rather periodic. [[User:Riggwelter|Riggwelter]] 14:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
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==Attribution and article translations==
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''Swept in from [[:en:pub]]'':
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[[User:DavidSaldanaSage|DavidSaldanaSage]] just brought up a good point: according to our [[Wikitravel:Copyleft|copyleft]], shouldn't we have to credit original contributors when translating articles between language versions? What is our policy for dealing with this? Do we just indicate somewhere on the article or the talk page that it is a translation and the original version is at [[X]]?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:23, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:Yes, my solution on de: has been to use [[:de:Vorlage:Attributieren]].  The only potential problems is someone can remove an author's name or delete the template. -- 10:35, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::Ah, cool. How does that template work exactly? Do you need to enter the original authors one by one each time you use it? Or does it automatically import them? And if so, is it set up to import only from :en?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:45, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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::Well, there ''is'' another way:  We could establish a policy that when preparing to translate an article that the article be [[Special:Export|exported]] and the [[Special:Import|imported]] as a first step. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 10:42, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::Yes, that probably would be a good way of doing things for complete translations, but I think a lot of partial translation also gets done, that is, added material translated from another language version to an existing article.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:48, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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::::I used to do that until I was told it was bad and could harm the website/server.  Plus, you can't import pages with more than a certain number of "versions" (history).  If you export the "last version" it doesn't attribute all of the authors, just the last person to have edited the page.  IB, I would appreciate it if you could stabilize the server to allow me to import articles.  Also, fix the issues with the attribution of the export/import feature.  -- [[User:Sapphire|Sapphire]] • <small>([[User_talk:Sapphire|Talk]])</small> • 10:57, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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::::I guess you're replying to Andrew?  I'm not sure how the template works, but it occurs to me that the exporter idea will have problems because of the fact that usernames are not necessarily the same across language versions. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 10:53, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::Unfortunately, each author has to be entered individually.  Ie. <nowiki>{{Attribution|[[:ru:User:X|Real name]], and |[[:de:Benutzer:Sapphire|Sapphire]].}}</nowiki>  Currently, I have 30 value fields that will allow you to enter 30 names.  If you need to attribute more than 30 people you can also use the 30th field to write something like this <nowiki>{{Attribution|.....|[[:en:User:X|real name]], [[:en:User:Q|real name]], [[:en:User:T|real name]], and anonymous users of Wikitravel.}}</nowiki>. -- [[User:Sapphire|Sapphire]] • <small>([[User_talk:Sapphire|Talk]])</small> • 10:57, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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::::Whew, that could take a lot of time in some cases. Could perhaps a simpler, quicker template do the job by saying "This article is based on a translation of article X", with a link to that article, where the original authors are cited? Or would that not be enough to satisfy the terms of CC-by-SA 1.0? Such a template could link to the version in the history from which it was translated.
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::::Perhaps this sort of quick template could suffice in the meantime, but I feel a feature request for IB brewing here. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:24, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::::I ''might'' have a solution, but I'm not sure if it'd be legally kosher. Check [[User:Sapphire/Template:AttributionAlt]] in a few minutes. -- [[User:Sapphire|Sapphire]] • <small>([[User_talk:Sapphire|Talk]])</small> • 11:30, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::::Done.  The new template says 'We took content from this article, which is based on work by this list of authors.'  I'm not sure if pointing to a list of authors is sufficient enough, or not. -- [[User:Sapphire|Sapphire]] • <small>([[User_talk:Sapphire|Talk]])</small> • 11:42, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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::::::Nice job! That looks like good enough for the time being. I'll make translations of that into Russian and Spanish. But for a more permanent solution, perhaps we should ask IB on shared for a way to automatically get the names from the original language version into the translated page credit box.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:44, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
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:::::::Sweet. I'd love to see more translating between language versions - I've always meant to raid the Japanese Wikitravel for eat/drink/buy entries for Japan articles. [[User:Gorilla Jones|Gorilla Jones]]
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::::::::Forgive my legal retardation, but if it's in another language, are we positive that it has to be attributed at all? If I can take a paragraph from a copyrighted website, paraphrase it and jumble it up a little and then use it here without attribution, what's the difference if it's being translated into another language entirely? &ndash; [[User:Cacahuate|<font color="green">cacahuate</font>]]  <sup><small>[[User talk:Cacahuate|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</small></sup> 03:28, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
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:::::::::Yep. The Creative Commons website actually lists translations as one of their two examples of derivative works requiring attribution. The big difference is that the structure and idea behind the structure of the work is the same. For example, [[Wikitravel:Копилефт]] is certainly not a word-for-word translation of [[Wikitravel:Copyleft]], but the structure of the article clearly comes from the original (there are also some sections pretty close to the original text). And jumbling up a paraphrasing of an incompatible source actually is copyright infringement. You need to totally rewrite, using your own words and organization, but using the source as just a reminder of the facts.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:44, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
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: Where on the page have you been putting the attribution template? At the very bottom? On the talk page? Somewhere else? [[User:Gorilla Jones|Gorilla Jones]] 10:00, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
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::I put it at the bottom of the page so it can be next to the attribution in the footer.  -- [[User:Sapphire|Sapphire]] • <small>([[User_talk:Sapphire|Talk]])</small> • 11:16, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
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Is there a template now at en: that can be used for manually listing other authors, from outside Wikitravel? Is creating a [[Template:Attribution]] a best way to go with this? Background for my question comes from [[:shared:Talk:Copyleft#asking permission to use forum reply at Wikitravel]] where we created a template and guidelines for using content from external forums, by explicit permission of original author. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 13:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)
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:I don't believe there is such a template, but it sounds like a good idea to me to create one&mdash;I can't think of any better way to provide attribution.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 02:02, 11 February 2008 (EST)
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::I've created a draft template: [[Template:Attribution]], you can see it in action in [[Rome]], [[Rome/Campo de' Fiori]]. Any comments/criticism is appreciated. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 15:08, 11 February 2008 (EST)
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::Oops, I don´t understand so many technical terms. I am spanish and I would like to translate part of an article about Santa Fe. Would I be "breaking the law"?
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:::Mira por favor [[:es:Plantilla:Atribución de traducción|la plantilla en español]]. Si no entienda, yo la añadire.  In other words, don't worry about it ;)  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
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Similar to the above, how do we attribute authors of a merged article?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 18:28, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
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:We don't, and probably should. Another template would do the trick for future merges at least, if that's how we want to continue tackling this problem.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 18:30, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
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:: Thank you Peter! I was concerned about author attribution. Although the original message is that any submitted work can be re-used or modified, it seems that not everybody agrees on that. I think that the Santa Fe article is a great one. I am not interested in translating the whole article or either writing my name. I would like to use part of the information to encourage people to visit USA (not only NY)and help those that don´t understand english.--Lucía
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:::Well, the license does require attribution for all modification & re-use--that's the problem. But I'd be thrilled if you translate the Santa Fe article to Spanish regardless. It is a great article, and a great destination for Spanish speakers (since more people there speak Spanish than English!).  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:19, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
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::I created [[:Template:Mergecredit]] for articles with merged content, based on [[:Template:Attribution]].  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:13, 1 September 2008 (EDT)
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== 38.105.67.2 and Hyatt listings ==
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''Swept in from [[:en:pub]]'':
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[[User:38.105.67.2]]'s rate of adding new Hyatt hotel listings (most seemingly copied from their web sites) is accelerating and I'm having trouble keeping up.  Is ''everyone'' boycotting the site over the stupid ad kerfuffle?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 17:32, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
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:I'm not seeing a problem -- the listings need some detouting as usual, but otherwise look okay. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 17:48, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
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:: In some corporate boardroom, somewhere...
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::: '''Chairman of the Board:''' "You mean, we place ads all over their site for free"
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::: '''Adguy:''' "Yep"
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::: '''C:''' "And these guys, they give up their free time, to reformat our ads, as traveller information?"
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::: '''A:''' "Thats right, we just post the promotional material we already developed for our website"
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::: '''C:''' "So, we spend no time or money, provide no destination information, no research...."
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::: '''A:''' ".... and these guys incorporate it into their guide free. But best of all, when they have finished, the travellers can't tell our promotion from real information.."
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::: '''C:''' "Why would they do that?  Are you sure you are not making this up?"
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:: --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 20:14, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
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::Yes, it's the detouting I'm having trouble keeping up with.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 22:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
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:::If '''any''' listing consists of material copied verbatim or almost so from another web site, shouldn't that listing just be deleted ''ipso facto?''  It's potentially a copyright violation, certainly inappropriate, and in my opinion ought to be specifically against policy if it isn't already.  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 11:22, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::Nah, I think just deleting the description (where the touting is) and keeping the basic info (address, phone #, etc.) will suffice. Then either they can come back with a more honest description or someone else can jump in with their own description. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] 13:15, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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:::::I don't agree with that.  A listing with no description isn't of much value in itself and encourages other people to make similarly basic listings.  (I think it is far more likely to just sit there than to be expanded by someone as the above assumes.)  I say better to delete such things.  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 19:31, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::::Are you suggesting we delete any listing without a description? That we require every listing to have a description? I don't think that's going to help. Like LtPowers said, there's good things about just including a listing, even if you have hardly anything (or nothing) to say about it. And yes, while it is more likely that the listing is going to sit without a description for a while, I don't think we should delete a listing on the presumption that no one is going to add that info. I mean, we don't delete the "Buy" section in an article because no one's gotten around to adding a shop yet. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] 21:17, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::: We are not yellow page, are we? Why include a hotel if we can't be serious about recommending it? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 17:41, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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:::::::My own preference would be for an explicit policy that listing descriptions should be concise, but listings with no description at all would be first in line to be deleted if the number of listings got too many.  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 10:37, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::::::I'm fine with that, but I don't think "too many listings" is a problem we're faced with here in these articles with these Hyatt listings. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] 15:12, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::::Well there is some value in just knowing what's available.  Maybe not a lot, but some.  Even just including it tells the reader some information: namely, that this particular establishment is not a complete dump and has at least enough redeeming value to be listed.  (Of course, that would be true of any Hyatt, but we've moved to generalities here.)  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 19:48, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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:::::::If other hotels are sold out (pretty common in some resort areas if one just shows up) there is a great value to having just a phone number listing. [[User:Alingelb|Alingelb]] 19:25, 29 September 2008 (EAT)
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::::::We encourage business owners to add their hotel listings.  See [[Wikitravel:Welcome, business owners]]. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 21:13, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::It seems to me extremely clear that extensive, uncredited quotes from other web sites shouldn't be put into Wikitravel, even by the owner of the other site.  I think there ought to be a specific policy against this.  If there isn't, where can I propose it?  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 19:29, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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:::::We allow reuse of one's own work or work with permission.  Now, normally we'd prefer the guy to say "yeah I'm from XYZ corporate and have permission to add this text", but it's pretty clear in cases like this that that is exactly what is going on. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 21:13, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::::::It seems to me there's a whole tangle of issues here.  What if a destination article has extensive verbatim quotes from the Rough Guide or Frommers web site?  Are we to ''assume'' that the quotes are done with permission, or without?  What if a listing for a Four Seasons resort is a quote from the Four Seasons web site?  Are we to ''assume'' that it was done with permission?  Sure we can say people can quote their own stuff, but how do we know it's the owner who's doing the quoting?  What if the destination page for, say, Rome, has extensive sites from the English language version of the official Italian government Rome tourist site?  Are we to ''assume'' that the Italian government won't object?  And then there's the larger principle issue of whether Wikitravel should to any extent be an anthology of passages from other web sites.  A policy saying "no quotes" would at least simplify all these issues.  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 22:16, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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Using text from other sites is fine, as long as the text is PD or licensed under a license [[:shared:copyleft|compatible]] with CC-by-SA 1.0.  If the user copying text is the author, he/she/it should leave a clarifying message on the talk page of the article to which he/she/it is adding the text. If none of these criteria are met, I say feel free to revert or delete as the situation needs.
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Regarding this case, if a user comes along and adds the same message to countless pages, even if it's not copied from another website, that's [[dt|clearly touting]], and I would be liable to revert it. It might be ideal to instead delete the touting text and save the listing, but that takes 3-4x the time to revert, so that's not always feasible. So "clean up" > "revert" > "leave mess."  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 22:29, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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:I see two problems with the above.  1) If I notice that a Wikitravel page has quoted text from another website, should it be incumbent on ''me'' as an ordinary contributor to try to figure out the licensing situation before deleting it?  If that's the case, in practice no typical user is ever going to take the trouble.  And 2) I have never, ever, on any of the very numerous Wikitravel talk pages I've looked at, seen a message from someone saying "I was quoting my own web site's text."  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 22:36, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
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::If you've already figured out what website the text comes from, it should be immediately apparent whether it is properly licensed. If it is CC-by or CC-by-SA, it will say so prominently on the website (as does ours). It is PD only if it says so prominently, or is the work of the U.S. Federal Government. And yes, those talk page messages are rare, but I have seen a few.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:58, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
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I notice that on Wikitravel Shared it says the following:
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''Can I copy text to Wikitravel from other sites? No. That is, unless you are the original author of the text, or the text on the other website is either Public Domain or has been explicitly licensed as compatible with Creative Commons Attribution/Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0.''
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I take this to mean that text on a Wikitravel page which is 1) copied verbatim or nearly verbatim from another web site which is 2) not clearly in the public domain and without 3) being annotated on the Talk page by the person adding it saying they are the owner, may be deleted. (I still think though that the owner's permission shouldn't justify such quoting.)  [[User:Sailsetter|Sailsetter]] 19:38, 24 September 2008 (EDT)
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: At the end of the day, this is really not your or even Wikitravel's problem.  Like wikis everywhere, we [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith assume good faith], and if IB gets a DMCA takedown from the copyright holder, they're still "safe harbored" under [Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act OCILLA] as long as they nuke the content ''then''. [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 13:12, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
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== Maps created with GMT ==
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Is it possible to upload maps created with the Generic Mapping Tools ([http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu/ GMT])? On wikimedia commons there is the template GFDL-GMT for such maps. I am aware that I cannot upload images under GFDL, but maybe under another license? Specifically I'd like to upload a modified version of [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Jesuit_Missions_of_the_Chiquitos-en.png this map] with roads/rails added. [[User:Bamse|Bamse]] 04:29, 24 February 2009 (EST)
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:It appears to me that we cannot use GMT material, as they state that "GMT is [released under the GNU General Public License." [http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu/] There's a part of that, though, that doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the GMT was a set of tools for manipulating data, not the data itself? If so, then others could distribute and modify the tools under the GNU FDL. But if the data was public domain... Anyway, it seems to me that we cannot use GMT content, but I don't understand this fully&mdash;perhaps someone else could better answer your question.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:48, 26 February 2009 (EST)
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:: My reading of the situation is that the licensing of the output files is restricted only by the license of the map data set itself.  For the Bolivia example given, the map data is public domain, so the output image plus any additional user modifications could be licensed any way you like.  The GPL applies to the GMT program itself, but we're not distributing the program; same way that the GNU C compilers themselves are GPL'd, but that doesn't automatically apply to a program built with them - only the license on the source code ''of that program'' matters.  - [[User:Dguillaime|Dguillaime]] 16:37, 27 February 2009 (EST)
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:::That makes sense to me. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)
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== National Park Service info use ==
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''swept from [[:en:pub]]:''
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I understand that text from the NPS websites are public domain. Does the same apply to pictures, maps, and other media? Thanks! [[User:24.42.128.242|24.42.128.242]] 14:57, 15 February 2010 (EST)
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: See the "Ownership" section on http://www.nps.gov/disclaimer.htm.  There are a number of pictures and maps on the NPS web site that they have licensed from private individuals, so those cannot be freely re-used, but provided that there isn't an author or copyright specified the default for NPS content is that it is released into the public domain. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 15:08, 15 February 2010 (EST)
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== CC0 ==
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I would like to propose that we incorporate the new [http://wiki.creativecommons.org/CC0_FAQ CC0 license wavier] into our licensing options.  It's very similar to public domain, but designed to be applicable in jurisdictions that prohibit public domain releases.  [[:Image:Sarahan view.jpg]] is an example of an image whose original source is released under CC0.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 16:30, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
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:By all means, although I don't think it necessary to add to the drop down menu on the upload form. I believe that this license, interestingly enough, granted me the option to release the image into the Public Domain, which I did ;)  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 23:59, 18 August 2010 (EDT)
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::That's an interesting interpretation.  The legalities of that are beyond my ken, though, which is why I would prefer a CC0 template that removes that uncertainty.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 09:10, 19 August 2010 (EDT)
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== auto-translated CC:SA is still CC:SA? ==
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If I Google Translate fr: wikitravel article to en: and include the content into an en: article, does it comply with our license? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 15:05, 4 April 2011 (EDT)
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== Violating books on Amazon (I think) ==
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These Kindle books:
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http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=digital-text&field-author=Jason%20Hale
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Copied from Wikitravel, being sold for $1.19/£0.77
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I downloaded one, and scrolled all the way to the end, it has the following notice:
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"Copyright
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A list of contributors is available at the original article on Wikitravel. Content in this book from Wikitravel.org is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license." The terms contributors, wikitravel, and licence are all hyperlinked to the appropriate place.
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However the licence is, it seems, being breached:
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"If You Distribute, or Publicly Perform the Work or any Adaptations or Collections, You must, unless a request has been made pursuant to Section 4(a), keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and provide, reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing: (i) the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied, and/or if the Original Author and/or Licensor designate another party or parties (e.g., a sponsor institute, publishing entity, journal) for attribution ("Attribution Parties") in Licensor's copyright notice, terms of service or by other reasonable means, the name of such party or parties; (ii) the title of the Work if supplied; (iii) to the extent reasonably practicable, the URI, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work, unless such URI does not refer to the copyright notice or licensing information for the Work; and (iv) , consistent with Ssection 3(b), in the case of an Adaptation, a credit identifying the use of the Work in the Adaptation (e.g., "French translation of the Work by Original Author," or "Screenplay based on original Work by Original Author"). *The credit required by this Section 4(c) may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Adaptation or Collection, at a minimum such credit will appear, if a credit for all contributing authors of the Adaptation or Collection appears, then as part of these credits and in a manner at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributing authors.* "
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Specifically it seems to me that the requirement for the credit to be "at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributiong authors" is being violated, however the works are clearly marketed as 'Jason Hale' author, which is not 'at least as promiment' as the wikitravel credited tucked away on the very last page.
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dubai-Concise-Travel-Guide-ebook/dp/B006D7DL0U
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[[User:81.141.31.216|81.141.31.216]] 16:59, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
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: That seems pretty blatant.  Steps for reporting ebook copyright infringement to Amazon can be found at [http://www.imfaceplate.com/gwcalvert/amazon-stole-my-copyrighted-ebook-what-would-you-do].  Anyone willing to go through that process to report this guy? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 17:49, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
 +
::I dunno... if it's not in compliance, it's very close to so.  Based on the description, I can only see two major differences between this and Wikitravel Press books: WTP books say "Edited by ____" on the cover, and they include a full contributor list in the credits.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 09:36, 23 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
 +
::: Wikitravel Press is fairly clear that the source is Wikitravel, and as you've noted includes a list of authors.  From the description above and a search on Amazon, it looks like this guy has copied several hundred Wikitravel articles verbatim and is passing them off as his own work, with a single sentence at the end saying "look at Wikitravel to see contributors".  At a minimum I think it needs to be clear to anyone purchasing the book that he is NOT the sole author, which you would never know from the Amazon listings. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 10:47, 23 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
 +
::::I agree. To me, his reference is clearly insufficient to comply with the requirements of the license. Indeed, the mention should be as prominent as the credits for the guy himself. The license is very clear about these things. That means, a reference to Wikitravel should be on the cover and frankly, a non-hyperlinked reference to a contributor list on Wiktravel really is pushing the limits. There's no compelling reason why it would be unreasonable to expect normal compliance from a printed / downloadable book like this one. I think a list of at least the most prominent contributors should be included in the work, somewhere.
 +
::::I'm a big fan of re-use, but the rules should be followed at least in spirit, for the whole free license system to work. Isn't this something Bobi or someone from the IB legal team could pursue? Just as a way to support the site and community? [[User:Justme2|Justme2]] 04:01, 24 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
:::::First, a reference to Wikitravel on the cover could be legally problematic due to trademark issues.  Second, there's nothing IB can do to repair copyright issues such as this; they lack standing because they are not the copyright owner.  Wikitravel's contributors retain the copyright to all of their contributed content; IB only uses the content under license.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:24, 30 March 2012 (EDT)
 +
===More violating books===
 +
Mr. Hale has vanished, but there are others: [http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=rdr_kindle_ext_aut?_encoding=UTF8&index=books&field-author=Esteban%20Tarrio] Rather blatant [[User:81.141.25.58|81.141.25.58]] 10:57, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 15:01, 9 May 2012

See also: en:Wikitravel Talk:Copyleft

Contents

Why two non-identical English language "Copyleft" pages?[edit]

Any reason not to merge en:Wikitravel:Copyleft into Shared:Copyleft then redirect the former to the latter? ~ 203.189.134.3 08:48, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Nope, go ahead. Jpatokal 11:36, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

Compatible licences[edit]

I just added a "Compatible licences" section. Should anything else be listed? ~ 203.189.134.3 09:47, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

What about "PD" - Public Domain - ? ~ 202.71.45.37 08:02, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

PD isn't really a "license", because it's entirely unconditional. But yes, we should mention that PD works are allowed. Jpatokal 11:36, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

asking permission to use forum reply at Wikitravel[edit]

I have received a valuable knowledge from other person on a forum/blog outside Wikitravel. Does someone have a template for a message asking whether pieces of that text can be used at Wikitravel? And I think this a good question for our FAQ here. --DenisYurkin 08:31, 26 January 2008 (EST)

I have the following text--how good is it for the above purpose?
Hi (person name).
Do you mind if I use some pieces of your post (its URL) to contribute to an article on Rome at Wikitravel, a free online travel guide written and edited entirely by travelers from around the globe?
The current edition of the article I am going to update is here: http://wikitravel.org/en/Rome#Eat.
Wikitravel requires that all the content is licensed under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 license. Basically this means that your content:
- can be distributed by others, as long as you are credited as the author
- may be further edited by other contributors
So do you mind if I use your text at Wikitravel?
(signature)
--DenisYurkin 15:05, 27 January 2008 (EST)
That looks fine to me. It's also good practice to post your request, and their reply, on the Talk page of any article with such content. Jpatokal 08:55, 28 January 2008 (EST)
OK if I add the above text to FAQ section of this article? Or is there a better place for it? --DenisYurkin 15:34, 29 January 2008 (EST)
Fine with me. I've taken the liberty of tweaking the English a little bit. Jpatokal 07:04, 1 February 2008 (EST)
Thanks. I've posted the text in FAQ: Copyleft#How should I ask for permission to use forum reply at Wikitravel?. --DenisYurkin 09:11, 1 February 2008 (EST)

I just realized an issue in this: with template like this, we promise attribution but don't actually add original author's name into "Based on work by ...". What we can do with this? --DenisYurkin 03:51, 9 February 2008 (EST)

Nothing. It Would Be Nice If(tm) we could add names to the attribution list somehow, but I don't think the Mediawiki software allows it. Jpatokal 06:39, 9 February 2008 (EST)
But the license requires us do provide attribution whatever it takes from us in terms of software (or manual work), doesn't it?
I'll ask at en:Wikitravel:Travellers' pub#Attribution and article translations whether guys have something that can be useful in my situation. --DenisYurkin 12:59, 10 February 2008 (EST)
I've created a draft template: en:Template:Attribution, you can see it in action in en:Rome, en:Rome/Campo de' Fiori. Does it look good enough to be mentioned in this guideline? --DenisYurkin 15:07, 11 February 2008 (EST)

Revisions[edit]

Our copyleft has been rather neglected over the years, and is currently confusing and inadequate to explain how licensing works on Wikitravel (IMHO). I'd like to propose these revisions to the copyleft. Here's the revised version in my sandbox: User:Peterfitzgerald/Copyleft. These changes, I think, should at the very least clarify how we have been doing things over the past several years, and would provide a basis to make necessary updates to several other outdated policies (most notably, en:Wikitravel:How to re-use Wikitravel guides). Do these changes seem reasonable? Have I gotten anything wrong? --Peter Talk 02:35, 21 February 2008 (EST)

Personally, I believe that the current page assumes a great deal of understanding of licensing from a reader--and is hard to understand by others. Q&As like "how can I re-use texts from forum replies" would seriously help, in my belief. --DenisYurkin 04:19, 21 February 2008 (EST)
Fair enough, I've now added more basic information for contributors to the FAQ section. I think it's important to keep the "licensing" section clear and precise, regardless of how confusing it may be for the uninitiated. The problem is that the article serves different groups of readers—those looking to redistribute & create derivative works, and those simply trying to understand what they need to do to start contributing. Hopefully the new FAQ entries should help with this. I will mention, though, that a side benefit of moving our site licensing from CC-by-SA 1.0 only for text to CC-by-SA any, is that it would significantly simplify our site licensing and make these issues less confusing. --Peter Talk 19:09, 21 February 2008 (EST)


Thanks; q&as like these are definitely helpful. --DenisYurkin 04:17, 22 February 2008 (EST)
Any objections to implementing the revisions as I made them at in my sandbox? Otherwise, I'll make them live (and will be sure to preserve Denis' last edit). --Peter Talk 16:29, 23 February 2008 (EST)
Alright, implemented. --Peter Talk 16:32, 24 February 2008 (EST)

Protection?[edit]

Should we protect this page against anon edits longer term? It's a serious spam magnet lately, and being one of our most important pages, do anon's really ever need to edit it? – cacahuate talk 18:45, 7 May 2008 (EDT)

I protected the local spam blacklist recently, because of the same reason. However, it feels like the spammers target the different Wikitravel sites in turn - sv: was swamped a few months ago, but with loads of cleaning and blocking spam accounts and IP's, they stopped and currently they seem to be here. The reason I doubt, in this case, is that protecting a page is not something we do happily. Could the spammers spam to make us protect or lock the page and thus prevent contributions? Some sort of hidden agenda? Personally, I do not think so, not as long as the spam do not enter the guide articles. In other words - meta pages, which are fairly stable and with few edits in itself, could be temporarily protected from anonymous contributions. Riggwelter 17:12, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
Yeah, I'm generally against a lot of page protections, but this is just such an important page and I doubt the need for anons to edit it without discussing on talk page first anyway – cacahuate talk 19:07, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
This is a really important page, and for that reason alone (combined w/ the spam problem), I am sympathetic if not enthusiastic for an anon-level protection. But I'd like to add that it's really important that everyone keep in mind that this is an editable & collaborative policy, not some sort of set-in-stone law of Wikitravel. If we do protect, we should remain amenable to temporary un-protects to help anon editors revise this policy upon requests. And we should consider only protecting for a month or so, to see if the spammers move along. --Peter Talk 14:07, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
Wise words, and I concur. Besides, it is apparent that the spammers' interest is rather periodic. Riggwelter 14:54, 12 May 2008 (EDT)

Attribution and article translations[edit]

Swept in from en:pub:

DavidSaldanaSage just brought up a good point: according to our copyleft, shouldn't we have to credit original contributors when translating articles between language versions? What is our policy for dealing with this? Do we just indicate somewhere on the article or the talk page that it is a translation and the original version is at X? --Peter Talk 10:23, 29 August 2007 (EDT)

Yes, my solution on de: has been to use de:Vorlage:Attributieren. The only potential problems is someone can remove an author's name or delete the template. -- 10:35, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Ah, cool. How does that template work exactly? Do you need to enter the original authors one by one each time you use it? Or does it automatically import them? And if so, is it set up to import only from :en? --Peter Talk 10:45, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Well, there is another way: We could establish a policy that when preparing to translate an article that the article be exported and the imported as a first step. -- Mark 10:42, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Yes, that probably would be a good way of doing things for complete translations, but I think a lot of partial translation also gets done, that is, added material translated from another language version to an existing article. --Peter Talk 10:48, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
I used to do that until I was told it was bad and could harm the website/server. Plus, you can't import pages with more than a certain number of "versions" (history). If you export the "last version" it doesn't attribute all of the authors, just the last person to have edited the page. IB, I would appreciate it if you could stabilize the server to allow me to import articles. Also, fix the issues with the attribution of the export/import feature. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 10:57, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
I guess you're replying to Andrew? I'm not sure how the template works, but it occurs to me that the exporter idea will have problems because of the fact that usernames are not necessarily the same across language versions. -- Mark 10:53, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Unfortunately, each author has to be entered individually. Ie. {{Attribution|[[:ru:User:X|Real name]], and |[[:de:Benutzer:Sapphire|Sapphire]].}} Currently, I have 30 value fields that will allow you to enter 30 names. If you need to attribute more than 30 people you can also use the 30th field to write something like this {{Attribution|.....|[[:en:User:X|real name]], [[:en:User:Q|real name]], [[:en:User:T|real name]], and anonymous users of Wikitravel.}}. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 10:57, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Whew, that could take a lot of time in some cases. Could perhaps a simpler, quicker template do the job by saying "This article is based on a translation of article X", with a link to that article, where the original authors are cited? Or would that not be enough to satisfy the terms of CC-by-SA 1.0? Such a template could link to the version in the history from which it was translated.
Perhaps this sort of quick template could suffice in the meantime, but I feel a feature request for IB brewing here. --Peter Talk 11:24, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
I might have a solution, but I'm not sure if it'd be legally kosher. Check User:Sapphire/Template:AttributionAlt in a few minutes. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:30, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Done. The new template says 'We took content from this article, which is based on work by this list of authors.' I'm not sure if pointing to a list of authors is sufficient enough, or not. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:42, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Nice job! That looks like good enough for the time being. I'll make translations of that into Russian and Spanish. But for a more permanent solution, perhaps we should ask IB on shared for a way to automatically get the names from the original language version into the translated page credit box. --Peter Talk 11:44, 29 August 2007 (EDT)
Sweet. I'd love to see more translating between language versions - I've always meant to raid the Japanese Wikitravel for eat/drink/buy entries for Japan articles. Gorilla Jones
Forgive my legal retardation, but if it's in another language, are we positive that it has to be attributed at all? If I can take a paragraph from a copyrighted website, paraphrase it and jumble it up a little and then use it here without attribution, what's the difference if it's being translated into another language entirely? – cacahuate talk 03:28, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
Yep. The Creative Commons website actually lists translations as one of their two examples of derivative works requiring attribution. The big difference is that the structure and idea behind the structure of the work is the same. For example, Wikitravel:Копилефт is certainly not a word-for-word translation of Wikitravel:Copyleft, but the structure of the article clearly comes from the original (there are also some sections pretty close to the original text). And jumbling up a paraphrasing of an incompatible source actually is copyright infringement. You need to totally rewrite, using your own words and organization, but using the source as just a reminder of the facts. --Peter Talk 03:44, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
Where on the page have you been putting the attribution template? At the very bottom? On the talk page? Somewhere else? Gorilla Jones 10:00, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
I put it at the bottom of the page so it can be next to the attribution in the footer. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 11:16, 1 September 2007 (EDT)

Is there a template now at en: that can be used for manually listing other authors, from outside Wikitravel? Is creating a Template:Attribution a best way to go with this? Background for my question comes from shared:Talk:Copyleft#asking permission to use forum reply at Wikitravel where we created a template and guidelines for using content from external forums, by explicit permission of original author. --DenisYurkin 13:14, 10 February 2008 (EST)

I don't believe there is such a template, but it sounds like a good idea to me to create one—I can't think of any better way to provide attribution. --Peter Talk 02:02, 11 February 2008 (EST)
I've created a draft template: Template:Attribution, you can see it in action in Rome, Rome/Campo de' Fiori. Any comments/criticism is appreciated. --DenisYurkin 15:08, 11 February 2008 (EST)
Oops, I don´t understand so many technical terms. I am spanish and I would like to translate part of an article about Santa Fe. Would I be "breaking the law"?
Mira por favor la plantilla en español. Si no entienda, yo la añadire. In other words, don't worry about it ;) --Peter Talk 18:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

Similar to the above, how do we attribute authors of a merged article? LtPowers 18:28, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

We don't, and probably should. Another template would do the trick for future merges at least, if that's how we want to continue tackling this problem. --Peter Talk 18:30, 26 August 2008 (EDT)
Thank you Peter! I was concerned about author attribution. Although the original message is that any submitted work can be re-used or modified, it seems that not everybody agrees on that. I think that the Santa Fe article is a great one. I am not interested in translating the whole article or either writing my name. I would like to use part of the information to encourage people to visit USA (not only NY)and help those that don´t understand english.--Lucía
Well, the license does require attribution for all modification & re-use--that's the problem. But I'd be thrilled if you translate the Santa Fe article to Spanish regardless. It is a great article, and a great destination for Spanish speakers (since more people there speak Spanish than English!). --Peter Talk 13:19, 27 August 2008 (EDT)
I created Template:Mergecredit for articles with merged content, based on Template:Attribution. LtPowers 20:13, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

38.105.67.2 and Hyatt listings[edit]

Swept in from en:pub:

User:38.105.67.2's rate of adding new Hyatt hotel listings (most seemingly copied from their web sites) is accelerating and I'm having trouble keeping up. Is everyone boycotting the site over the stupid ad kerfuffle? LtPowers 17:32, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm not seeing a problem -- the listings need some detouting as usual, but otherwise look okay. -- Colin 17:48, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
In some corporate boardroom, somewhere...
Chairman of the Board: "You mean, we place ads all over their site for free"
Adguy: "Yep"
C: "And these guys, they give up their free time, to reformat our ads, as traveller information?"
A: "Thats right, we just post the promotional material we already developed for our website"
C: "So, we spend no time or money, provide no destination information, no research...."
A: ".... and these guys incorporate it into their guide free. But best of all, when they have finished, the travellers can't tell our promotion from real information.."
C: "Why would they do that? Are you sure you are not making this up?"
--Inas 20:14, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
Yes, it's the detouting I'm having trouble keeping up with. LtPowers 22:13, 16 September 2008 (EDT)
If any listing consists of material copied verbatim or almost so from another web site, shouldn't that listing just be deleted ipso facto? It's potentially a copyright violation, certainly inappropriate, and in my opinion ought to be specifically against policy if it isn't already. Sailsetter 11:22, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
Nah, I think just deleting the description (where the touting is) and keeping the basic info (address, phone #, etc.) will suffice. Then either they can come back with a more honest description or someone else can jump in with their own description. PerryPlanet 13:15, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
I don't agree with that. A listing with no description isn't of much value in itself and encourages other people to make similarly basic listings. (I think it is far more likely to just sit there than to be expanded by someone as the above assumes.) I say better to delete such things. Sailsetter 19:31, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
Are you suggesting we delete any listing without a description? That we require every listing to have a description? I don't think that's going to help. Like LtPowers said, there's good things about just including a listing, even if you have hardly anything (or nothing) to say about it. And yes, while it is more likely that the listing is going to sit without a description for a while, I don't think we should delete a listing on the presumption that no one is going to add that info. I mean, we don't delete the "Buy" section in an article because no one's gotten around to adding a shop yet. PerryPlanet 21:17, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
We are not yellow page, are we? Why include a hotel if we can't be serious about recommending it? --DenisYurkin 17:41, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
My own preference would be for an explicit policy that listing descriptions should be concise, but listings with no description at all would be first in line to be deleted if the number of listings got too many. Sailsetter 10:37, 18 September 2008 (EDT)
I'm fine with that, but I don't think "too many listings" is a problem we're faced with here in these articles with these Hyatt listings. PerryPlanet 15:12, 19 September 2008 (EDT)
Well there is some value in just knowing what's available. Maybe not a lot, but some. Even just including it tells the reader some information: namely, that this particular establishment is not a complete dump and has at least enough redeeming value to be listed. (Of course, that would be true of any Hyatt, but we've moved to generalities here.) LtPowers 19:48, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
If other hotels are sold out (pretty common in some resort areas if one just shows up) there is a great value to having just a phone number listing. Alingelb 19:25, 29 September 2008 (EAT)
We encourage business owners to add their hotel listings. See Wikitravel:Welcome, business owners. -- Colin 21:13, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
It seems to me extremely clear that extensive, uncredited quotes from other web sites shouldn't be put into Wikitravel, even by the owner of the other site. I think there ought to be a specific policy against this. If there isn't, where can I propose it? Sailsetter 19:29, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
We allow reuse of one's own work or work with permission. Now, normally we'd prefer the guy to say "yeah I'm from XYZ corporate and have permission to add this text", but it's pretty clear in cases like this that that is exactly what is going on. -- Colin 21:13, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
It seems to me there's a whole tangle of issues here. What if a destination article has extensive verbatim quotes from the Rough Guide or Frommers web site? Are we to assume that the quotes are done with permission, or without? What if a listing for a Four Seasons resort is a quote from the Four Seasons web site? Are we to assume that it was done with permission? Sure we can say people can quote their own stuff, but how do we know it's the owner who's doing the quoting? What if the destination page for, say, Rome, has extensive sites from the English language version of the official Italian government Rome tourist site? Are we to assume that the Italian government won't object? And then there's the larger principle issue of whether Wikitravel should to any extent be an anthology of passages from other web sites. A policy saying "no quotes" would at least simplify all these issues. Sailsetter 22:16, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

Using text from other sites is fine, as long as the text is PD or licensed under a license compatible with CC-by-SA 1.0. If the user copying text is the author, he/she/it should leave a clarifying message on the talk page of the article to which he/she/it is adding the text. If none of these criteria are met, I say feel free to revert or delete as the situation needs.

Regarding this case, if a user comes along and adds the same message to countless pages, even if it's not copied from another website, that's clearly touting, and I would be liable to revert it. It might be ideal to instead delete the touting text and save the listing, but that takes 3-4x the time to revert, so that's not always feasible. So "clean up" > "revert" > "leave mess." --Peter Talk 22:29, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

I see two problems with the above. 1) If I notice that a Wikitravel page has quoted text from another website, should it be incumbent on me as an ordinary contributor to try to figure out the licensing situation before deleting it? If that's the case, in practice no typical user is ever going to take the trouble. And 2) I have never, ever, on any of the very numerous Wikitravel talk pages I've looked at, seen a message from someone saying "I was quoting my own web site's text." Sailsetter 22:36, 17 September 2008 (EDT)
If you've already figured out what website the text comes from, it should be immediately apparent whether it is properly licensed. If it is CC-by or CC-by-SA, it will say so prominently on the website (as does ours). It is PD only if it says so prominently, or is the work of the U.S. Federal Government. And yes, those talk page messages are rare, but I have seen a few. --Peter Talk 10:58, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

I notice that on Wikitravel Shared it says the following:

Can I copy text to Wikitravel from other sites? No. That is, unless you are the original author of the text, or the text on the other website is either Public Domain or has been explicitly licensed as compatible with Creative Commons Attribution/Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0.

I take this to mean that text on a Wikitravel page which is 1) copied verbatim or nearly verbatim from another web site which is 2) not clearly in the public domain and without 3) being annotated on the Talk page by the person adding it saying they are the owner, may be deleted. (I still think though that the owner's permission shouldn't justify such quoting.) Sailsetter 19:38, 24 September 2008 (EDT)

At the end of the day, this is really not your or even Wikitravel's problem. Like wikis everywhere, we assume good faith, and if IB gets a DMCA takedown from the copyright holder, they're still "safe harbored" under [Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act OCILLA] as long as they nuke the content then. Jpatokal 13:12, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

Maps created with GMT[edit]

Is it possible to upload maps created with the Generic Mapping Tools (GMT)? On wikimedia commons there is the template GFDL-GMT for such maps. I am aware that I cannot upload images under GFDL, but maybe under another license? Specifically I'd like to upload a modified version of this map with roads/rails added. Bamse 04:29, 24 February 2009 (EST)

It appears to me that we cannot use GMT material, as they state that "GMT is [released under the GNU General Public License." [1] There's a part of that, though, that doesn't make much sense to me. I thought the GMT was a set of tools for manipulating data, not the data itself? If so, then others could distribute and modify the tools under the GNU FDL. But if the data was public domain... Anyway, it seems to me that we cannot use GMT content, but I don't understand this fully—perhaps someone else could better answer your question. --Peter Talk 13:48, 26 February 2009 (EST)
My reading of the situation is that the licensing of the output files is restricted only by the license of the map data set itself. For the Bolivia example given, the map data is public domain, so the output image plus any additional user modifications could be licensed any way you like. The GPL applies to the GMT program itself, but we're not distributing the program; same way that the GNU C compilers themselves are GPL'd, but that doesn't automatically apply to a program built with them - only the license on the source code of that program matters. - Dguillaime 16:37, 27 February 2009 (EST)
That makes sense to me. --Peter Talk 16:44, 27 February 2009 (EST)

National Park Service info use[edit]

swept from en:pub:

I understand that text from the NPS websites are public domain. Does the same apply to pictures, maps, and other media? Thanks! 24.42.128.242 14:57, 15 February 2010 (EST)

See the "Ownership" section on http://www.nps.gov/disclaimer.htm. There are a number of pictures and maps on the NPS web site that they have licensed from private individuals, so those cannot be freely re-used, but provided that there isn't an author or copyright specified the default for NPS content is that it is released into the public domain. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:08, 15 February 2010 (EST)

CC0[edit]

I would like to propose that we incorporate the new CC0 license wavier into our licensing options. It's very similar to public domain, but designed to be applicable in jurisdictions that prohibit public domain releases. Image:Sarahan view.jpg is an example of an image whose original source is released under CC0. LtPowers 16:30, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

By all means, although I don't think it necessary to add to the drop down menu on the upload form. I believe that this license, interestingly enough, granted me the option to release the image into the Public Domain, which I did ;) --Peter Talk 23:59, 18 August 2010 (EDT)
That's an interesting interpretation. The legalities of that are beyond my ken, though, which is why I would prefer a CC0 template that removes that uncertainty. LtPowers 09:10, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

auto-translated CC:SA is still CC:SA?[edit]

If I Google Translate fr: wikitravel article to en: and include the content into an en: article, does it comply with our license? --DenisYurkin 15:05, 4 April 2011 (EDT)

Violating books on Amazon (I think)[edit]

These Kindle books:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=ntt_athr_dp_sr_1?_encoding=UTF8&search-alias=digital-text&field-author=Jason%20Hale

Copied from Wikitravel, being sold for $1.19/£0.77

I downloaded one, and scrolled all the way to the end, it has the following notice:

"Copyright

A list of contributors is available at the original article on Wikitravel. Content in this book from Wikitravel.org is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license." The terms contributors, wikitravel, and licence are all hyperlinked to the appropriate place.

However the licence is, it seems, being breached:

"If You Distribute, or Publicly Perform the Work or any Adaptations or Collections, You must, unless a request has been made pursuant to Section 4(a), keep intact all copyright notices for the Work and provide, reasonable to the medium or means You are utilizing: (i) the name of the Original Author (or pseudonym, if applicable) if supplied, and/or if the Original Author and/or Licensor designate another party or parties (e.g., a sponsor institute, publishing entity, journal) for attribution ("Attribution Parties") in Licensor's copyright notice, terms of service or by other reasonable means, the name of such party or parties; (ii) the title of the Work if supplied; (iii) to the extent reasonably practicable, the URI, if any, that Licensor specifies to be associated with the Work, unless such URI does not refer to the copyright notice or licensing information for the Work; and (iv) , consistent with Ssection 3(b), in the case of an Adaptation, a credit identifying the use of the Work in the Adaptation (e.g., "French translation of the Work by Original Author," or "Screenplay based on original Work by Original Author"). *The credit required by this Section 4(c) may be implemented in any reasonable manner; provided, however, that in the case of a Adaptation or Collection, at a minimum such credit will appear, if a credit for all contributing authors of the Adaptation or Collection appears, then as part of these credits and in a manner at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributing authors.* "

Specifically it seems to me that the requirement for the credit to be "at least as prominent as the credits for the other contributiong authors" is being violated, however the works are clearly marketed as 'Jason Hale' author, which is not 'at least as promiment' as the wikitravel credited tucked away on the very last page.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dubai-Concise-Travel-Guide-ebook/dp/B006D7DL0U

81.141.31.216 16:59, 22 March 2012 (EDT)

That seems pretty blatant. Steps for reporting ebook copyright infringement to Amazon can be found at [2]. Anyone willing to go through that process to report this guy? -- Ryan 17:49, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
I dunno... if it's not in compliance, it's very close to so. Based on the description, I can only see two major differences between this and Wikitravel Press books: WTP books say "Edited by ____" on the cover, and they include a full contributor list in the credits. LtPowers 09:36, 23 March 2012 (EDT)
Wikitravel Press is fairly clear that the source is Wikitravel, and as you've noted includes a list of authors. From the description above and a search on Amazon, it looks like this guy has copied several hundred Wikitravel articles verbatim and is passing them off as his own work, with a single sentence at the end saying "look at Wikitravel to see contributors". At a minimum I think it needs to be clear to anyone purchasing the book that he is NOT the sole author, which you would never know from the Amazon listings. -- Ryan 10:47, 23 March 2012 (EDT)
I agree. To me, his reference is clearly insufficient to comply with the requirements of the license. Indeed, the mention should be as prominent as the credits for the guy himself. The license is very clear about these things. That means, a reference to Wikitravel should be on the cover and frankly, a non-hyperlinked reference to a contributor list on Wiktravel really is pushing the limits. There's no compelling reason why it would be unreasonable to expect normal compliance from a printed / downloadable book like this one. I think a list of at least the most prominent contributors should be included in the work, somewhere.
I'm a big fan of re-use, but the rules should be followed at least in spirit, for the whole free license system to work. Isn't this something Bobi or someone from the IB legal team could pursue? Just as a way to support the site and community? Justme2 04:01, 24 March 2012 (EDT)
First, a reference to Wikitravel on the cover could be legally problematic due to trademark issues. Second, there's nothing IB can do to repair copyright issues such as this; they lack standing because they are not the copyright owner. Wikitravel's contributors retain the copyright to all of their contributed content; IB only uses the content under license. LtPowers 20:24, 30 March 2012 (EDT)

More violating books[edit]

Mr. Hale has vanished, but there are others: [3] Rather blatant 81.141.25.58 10:57, 9 May 2012 (EDT)

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