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Wikitravel talk:Esperanto Wikitravel Expedition

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Revision as of 07:28, 27 September 2006 by Chuck SMITH (Talk | contribs)

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So, this project seems about ready to start. I don't think it makes sense for me to the be the go-between for the new version, but I'm interested in getting it started. If nobody else steps up to be go-between, I'll do the job for a while. --Evan 08:56, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

User = "Ano"[edit]

So, I've started the Wikitravel Esperanto version at http://wikitravel.org/eo/ . One thing that was tricky is that the default MediaWiki code translates "User" as "Vikipediisto", which is more properly "Wikipedian". I thought there was probably a reason it hadn't been "Uzanto" (the more literal translation of "user"), so I tried to take a middle road and chose a word meaning "member" ("Ano"). Any feelings about this? --Evan 15:28, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I personally asked Brion to use "uzanto", but he chose "Vikipediisto" anyway. Oh well. I think "ano" is nice since it's so short. --Chuck Smith 10:07, 12 September 2006 (EDT)
I just talked to Brion about it, he says "Ano" sounds good. Apparently in 1.8 it's possible to have namespace synonyms, so it might not matter that much. --Evan 11:24, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

Article templates[edit]

So, for Wikitravel we have some standard Wikitravel:Article templates for laying out destination articles. Since most destination guides will have descriptions of how to get in, what to do, where to eat, drink and sleep, it's nice to just solve the problem of how to organize an article once, and just copy it everywhere else.

For English, we've used short, sharp verb forms ("Get in", "Eat", "Sleep", "Get out") as the header names, and it's become something of a trademark. Other language versions use a similar format. It seems like at least French uses an infinitive form ("Arriver", "Voir", "Faire"), which seems to make some sense. Especially for languages where the infinitive form is one word, it seems slightly less brusque than the imperative.

Finally, we started calling our frameworks "article templates" for the English Wikitravel long before there were "templates" in MediaWiki. We've never changed the name, but it might be nice to use another term besides ŝablono for this framework. I'm using skemo here, which seems to be about right.

I'm going to get started on these article templates for Esperanto as sub-pages of this expedition page, linked below:

Feel free to jump in or correct my bad translations (esp. the titles). --Evan 16:07, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

OK, so, some notes: I used rondiri rather than ĉirkaŭiri for "Get around". I'm not crazy about drinki for "Drink", but that's mostly because I've always been uncomfortable with "Drink". It might be nice to have a verb that means "step out" or "go out on the town", "go out for some nightlife". I didn't manage to find a verb that means "cope", which in the Wikitravel case we use like "get along", "muddle through", "deal with the minor hassles of everyday life." It's where we put e.g. laundromats, gyms, technology stores, etc. I'm not sure what verb to use here. Trakti? --Evan 21:20, 11 September 2006 (EDT)
Would a interpretation of "survive" suffice for "Cope?" Maybe "elporti la situacion?" -- Sapphire 21:26, 11 September 2006 (EDT)

I believe "travivi" would be a good translation of "cope". Why not just use "Nokta Vivo" or "Night Life" instead of "Drink" for that point? Also, any chance we could launch this by Sep 25? I'm giving a lecture on wikis in Brussels to an Esperanto club then and it would be cool to start promoting it. --Chuck Smith 08:54, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Sure, I think it's quite likely. I've updated the templates to use "travivi", but I'm not sure about "nokta vivo". House style for Wikitravel has been to use verbs for most of the headers in the templates -- you can see it across most of our language versions. I wonder if "amuziĝi" would work... Or what about "noktumi"? --Evan 09:29, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
I think "trinkumi" might actually be the best translation then. --Chuck Smith 09:04, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Vocabulary[edit]

I've started working on the specific vocabulary for Wikitravel, see Wikitravel:Esperanto Wikitravel Expedition/Vocabulary. --Evan 16:09, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

Contents[edit]

After we launch, Ljoŝa and I would like to help move all the pages from the Turismo-Vikio over to WikiTravel and then close the Turismo-Vikio. --Chuck Smith 09:15, 18 September 2006 (EDT)

Launch?[edit]

So, what is now keeping us from launching immediately? --Chuck Smith 06:57, 19 September 2006 (EDT)

I think it's just having someone act as go-between. If you or Bill would do it, that'd be great. I can also do the job for a while, but I'm kinda overstretched as it is. --Evan 09:24, 19 September 2006 (EDT)
I am really overextended at the moment. If Bill can't do it, I could ask for a volunteer from various discussion lists. Also Evan, please answer the private email I sent you a few days ago. Thanks. --Chuck Smith 17:52, 19 September 2006 (EDT)
OK, so, the wiki is now open, but not launched. I'm working on creating some seed country pages based on a list from http://www.bertilow.com/landlin/ and the country template above. I think we'll at least need a main page before getting this started. --Evan 15:23, 20 September 2006 (EDT)
OK, so, this is done. It ended up being about 460 articles, which is a pretty nice catch. I can probably get 1-200 more from the list of regions here: http://www.bertilow.com/lanlin/notoj.html#regionoj . If we do a phrasebook template (like Wikitravel:Phrasebook template), then we can scrape the list of languages, too, and automatically build skeletons for eo:Ĉeĥa frazaro ktp., which would make another hundred articles or so. (My guess is that it'd also be a place that Esperantists would dive in first!)
I'd like to use Wikipedia as a translation service. I'd take Wikitravel:World cities with 100K population or more and check for each city if there's an English Wikipedia article on it. If so, I'll see if there's an eo: wikilink. If so, I'll use the title of that wikilink as the title of a new city article. This might be a while, but with 100% hits that'd add another 4000 or so articles.
For launch: I'm going to be camping this weekend, meaning that I won't be working much on eo:. I know Chuck wanted to do a presentation on Monday, so I say we get a sexy-looking main page working and launch it before then. --Evan 11:37, 21 September 2006 (EDT)
I think we should at least get one nice article up... perhaps one on Lovena la nova (the place where I lectured), before we "officially" launch it. Then we can at least have some real content on the front page. --Chuck SMITH 03:24, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

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