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::::Itineraries can be <nowiki>{{related| }}</nowiki>... or put in "other destinations" maybe... don't know about sports, see or do would make the most sense. Several sections on other templates are optional, as needed, such as Stay healthy, Work, etc... maybe in this case it's one of those. There may be cases where there's substantial and relevant things to say in those sections, and then they should be used... but I personally dislike useless lists like: ski, snowboard, hiking, nature walks.... it's not about listing everything there is to see or do, just notable things, like cricket in India for instance &ndash; [[User:Cacahuate|<font color="green">cacahuate</font>]]  <sup><small>[[User talk:Cacahuate|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</small></sup> 00:42, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
 
::::Itineraries can be <nowiki>{{related| }}</nowiki>... or put in "other destinations" maybe... don't know about sports, see or do would make the most sense. Several sections on other templates are optional, as needed, such as Stay healthy, Work, etc... maybe in this case it's one of those. There may be cases where there's substantial and relevant things to say in those sections, and then they should be used... but I personally dislike useless lists like: ski, snowboard, hiking, nature walks.... it's not about listing everything there is to see or do, just notable things, like cricket in India for instance &ndash; [[User:Cacahuate|<font color="green">cacahuate</font>]]  <sup><small>[[User talk:Cacahuate|<font color="blue">talk</font>]]</small></sup> 00:42, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
  
:::I agree with cacahuate; receational/adventure sports like Skiing/snowboarding/paragliding are different from spectator sports like cricket (in India), football (in Europe), or that weird helmet-bashing thing that they play in America. The latter can fall under Culture as well as Do. That's the problem. How do other guides like Lonely Planet sort this one out? [[User:220.227.156.156|220.227.156.156]] 07:43, 29 June 2008 (EDT)
+
:::I agree with cacahuate; receational/adventure sports like Skiing/snowboarding/paragliding are different from spectator sports like cricket (in India), football (in Europe), or that weird helmet-bashing thing that they play in America. The latter can fall under Culture as well as Do. That's the problem. How do other guides like Lonely Planet sort this one out? [[User:Upamanyuwikitravel|Upamanyuwikitravel]] • <small>( [[User_talk:Upamanyuwikitravel|Talk]] )</small> • <small>( [[User:Upamanyuwikitravel/Travel plans|Travel]] ) •</small> 03:16, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

Revision as of 07:20, 30 June 2008

See also: Wikitravel talk:Country article template/Archives


What?! There's no heading for what the people of the country are like.. possibly one of the most important things about visiting a country!

I believe that would go under Understand. Also, check out using talk pages. -- Evan 12:21, 9 Nov 2003 (PST)

So, after a big overhaul of the country article template -- based a lot on comments on the CIA factbook imports, and common practice for pages -- I've tested it out with a big rewrite of United States of America. Any comments on the template? On the implementation in the USA page? -- Evan 09:30, 14 Nov 2003 (PST)


Contents

Template for a very small country

What template do I use for a country like Singapore which is a small as a city? A mix of city and country template? Srijith

Hmmm. I have two thoughts on this. Singapore, as far as I know, actually has a couple of other much smaller cities, right? So one way to handle it is to do Singapore (country), with the country template, and then do Singapore (city) as well as... hmmm... I think it's Victoria (Singapore)?... and whatever other villages there are. Another possibility is just using the huge city article template and making the other cities districts of Singapore. Then you could add in the sections from the country template that aren't in the city template -- Talk, etc. I think it boils down to how independent the other cities in Singapore-the-country are -- are they really destinations of their own, or just neighborhoods of Singapore that happen to have a mayor? It's your call, in other words. -- Evan 05:39, 13 Nov 2003 (PST)
Singapore is divided into smaller parts only for election constituencies. There are no seperate official cities/towns in Singapore. No mayor etc. So the intutive thing to do would be to use the huge city article template and modify where required.Srijith 23:04, 16 Nov 2003 (PST)
Cool! That sounds excellent. -- Evan 06:53, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)


Visa Requirements

Moved from travellers' pub by Evan

How about including comments (or a table) within Country articles discussing Visa Requements? --Caffeine 05:19, 2 Jan 2004 (PST)

It's supposed to be in the Get in section, I believe. --Evan 07:09, 2 Jan 2004 (PST)

VISA

Discussion swept in from Pub

Should we add information about VISA requirments for every country? I know it's wanted information Bong 12:38, 30 Dec 2004 (EST)

Have a look at Wikitravel:Country_article_template#Get_in concerning Visa Requirements. -- Huttite 16:38, 31 Dec 2004 (EST)
Besides listing this info on every country it would be cool to have a more general article about acquiring VISAs, explaining the procedure, and giving an indication of the cost... Guaka 10:00, 9 Jan 2005 (EST)
Since the requirements for VISAs are dependent on the issuing country (where you want to travel), how about a two-pronged approach: have a page about getting them, with sections (subpages?) for the different countries, and a section on the country page on where to get it.
So, if you want to go from A to B, you check the VISA page on B whether you need one and how to get it, and then A (your current location) for where to get it (where's an embassy/consulate). --Jae 13:48, 20 Jan 2005 (EST)

I certainly think the best way to do this is include a Customs and Immigration subsection of the Get In section. It should be in the template to encourage it being added. Most of the time entry information is simple enough to not need a whole seperate page as suggested, including it within the article is easy. An example: Visitors from the USA, Canada and EU member nations do not require a visa, those from all other nations should obtain a visa prior to arrival. "prior to arrival" could be linked to a general article about how to apply for visas. Russeasby 20:09, 10 September 2006 (EDT)

I am suprised no one has commented on this. VISA requirements are a very important part of travel and the vast majority of articles on wikitravel lack any information at all about them. I would be more then glad to go nuts adding this info to country articles in wikitravel, but not unless there is some standard for it and its including in the template. Russeasby 19:54, 13 September 2006 (EDT)
The 'standard' right now is to place the visa info right at the top of the Get in section. This makes a lot of sense to me: you need to know whether you can go before deciding how to get there. Jpatokal 04:51, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
I realize that, I am just suggesting an actual header added to the template within Get In section for Customs and Immigration, having it in the template would encourage more people to actually fill in this very important information. Why is this not a good idea? Russeasby 08:32, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
Because I don't see why we need an additional header for it. If customs and immigration goes in its own section, what goes in the empty space between "Get in" and "C&I"? Jpatokal 09:18, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
Why does something have to go in it? There is nothing wrong with Get In being nothing more then a header for the following subsections, and I am sure people will come up with things to go in there. If your only reason for not wanting to include a subsection for Customs and Immigration is because you dont like the way it might look, then perhaps the entire template is flawed and needs to be revisited, there is something wrong if this extreamly important traveler information is not able to have a specific section when far more minor things do. When editors visit these pages and see an empty C&I section they are more likely to fill it in. Russeasby 09:27, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
I wanted to note as well that China is a good example of how I am suggesting the template be changed, a Visa subsection was added to it, it looks fine and the subsection also allows the Visa entry to be listed in the contents for the article. Though personally I prefer it to be titled Customs and Immigration, as information about import duties on goods you bring into the country is also relevent, I will relent on the naming of the subsection and mainly just want to see it added reguardless of name. Russeasby 09:33, 14 September 2006 (EDT)
Changes to the article templates are extremely rare, and we've been hesitant in the past to add a lot of second-level headers. Visa info is already specifically called out for the "Get in" section before the "By..." sub-sections. It is filled in for many countries, and I don't think that the lack of a specific sub-heading has kept people from adding the info. --Evan 09:36, 14 September 2006 (EDT)

External links

Hey, I was just looking at the external links sections of some countries and realized that it might be more print-friendly to have the actual url as well as the site name. For example:

  • [http:/www.majink.org Great site]

Isn't as useful printed out as

Sure, some of the urls will be ugly, but I can imagine how annoying it would be to have printed out a page that you know had the tourist site on it and then not be able to see it offline. OTOH, are urls usefull offline? Maybe to give to someone else? Majnoona 15:37, 6 Mar 2004 (EST)

Boilerplate text

I notice that several times this and other template articles have been copied onto a country page. The latest was Ireland. I have been thinking that there should be some boilerplate text at the top of the page that could be quickly copied rather than having to edit the whole template. It could be something like this:


==Regions==
==Cities==
==Other destinations==
==Understand==
==Get in==
===By plane===
===By train===
===By car===
===By bus===
===By boat===
==Get around==
==Talk==
==Buy==
==Eat==
==Drink==
==Sleep==
==Learn==
==Work==
==Stay safe==
==Stay healthy==
==Respect==
==Contact==
==External links==

We should make it easy for people. -- Huttite 08:08, 1 Apr 2004 (EST)

Indeed! --Evan 11:10, 1 Apr 2004 (EST)

Do people think we need something about public holidays? Obviously the dates change from year to year but most of them follow rules ie second monday in March or whatever. Caroline 16:51, 31 Jul 2004 (EDT)

I think it's a good idea. Catholic countries have holidays that the uninitiated Protestant has never heard of, and many countries have a national day. Israel and Muslim and Hindu countries make things difficult by having different calendars - e.g. Yom Kippur is always waxing gibbous in the early fall, but the date varies on the Gregorian calendar. -phma 21:21, 1 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Where do we write the time zone? I think that's pretty relevant to travelers.

I'd say that fits in "Understand" for countries and/or regionsMajnoona 20:41, 24 Oct 2004 (EDT)

For discussion - Include a UNESCO World Heritage list section?

I've plunged forward and added a section on Tunisia positioned between Cities and Other destinations. I have considered the UNESCO World Heritage List (WHL) but would regard this as an index. I believe these sites are of such fundamental interest to travellers they deserve a separate section on the Country page. I also agree with the WHL style that the title should be exactly that as inscribed on UNESCO's list to avoid ambiguity, and in adoption date order as on UNESCO's site, which is an easy resource when contributing.

It seems the linking discussed in WHL talk has met with concensus, apart from my opinion that WHL sites should go on the Country page. My argument is much the same as that for significant cities - to prevent users having to drop in and out of Region/City pages to find them. This is particularly true of isolated sites which will be redirected to the nearest City likely to have Sleep data, which is a sensible, but arbitrary choice.

I also think the description should be a one or two line summary of nothing but the reasons for UNESCO adoption/inscription because that describes the specific interest of the place. I don't see a problem with a duplicate entry in cities, e.g. 'Islamic Cairo' in WHL section and Cairo in Cities, because there are so few cities which meet the criteria for inclusion in both. I rejected my idea of putting the descriptions on the WHL page because I think this is best left as an indexing tool.

One thing to consider in your deliberations is that tourist destinations often become WH listed, and we don't want to have huge edits forced upon us. It would be good to adopt a structure where the WHL page could be automatically propagated to the Country pages periodically. UNESCO have two selection meetings a year.

Oh, and am I correct to link any references to World Heritage site back to WHL? --Richard 2005 Jan 17

I think that places on the UNESCO World Heritage List should be listed in the country article under the sections where they naturally fall. I do not think a separate template section is necessary, although a subsection under one of the template sections could be appropriate. Some of these places are regions, cities or destinations in their own right and deserve articles, while others are just a building or area of land. The variety means these places do not always fit into a single template category. For example, some UNESCO World Heritage list places in New Zealand, like Fiordland, are considered whole regions of the country.
Also, definitely link back to the UNESCO World Heritage list If you linked to using a section link like so [[UNESCO World Heritage List#Country|UNESCO World Heritage places in the Country]] then you link immediately to the section in the list that shows all the WHL places in the country. -- Huttite 03:51, 18 Jan 2005 (EST)

Electricity

One thing which doesn't fit comfortably anywhere in the current template is the country's electrical system (110/220V, what kind of plug, etc). Any ideas? One possibility would be to add a line to the quickbox... Jpatokal 01:59, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

How about it being a subsection under the ==Cope== section. -- Huttite 02:28, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)
The Cope section is not a part of the standard templates. Should it be added? Jpatokal 03:36, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)
It's in the Wikitravel:Big city article template, but not on this one. --Evan 07:53, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)
It's also missing from the Huge city template. But as written, the description doesn't really make sense for entire countries:
This section is for all those little items that people need to know when they're in a city. Where can you do laundry? Go to a gym? Get computers repaired? Anything that has to do with the practicalities of daily life should go here.
One more thing missing from the templates: where to put embassies/consulates for other countries. Jpatokal 08:46, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)
I suggest to make a special Plug type page with an overview of all the different socket/plug types worldwide, including photographs and a small icon. This icon can now be put in the country quickfacts together with voltage and frequency and a link to the plug type page. This is handier then a teadious description for every country. Ronald 15:42, 4 Feb 2006 (EST)

Quick bar standardization

Electricity230V/50Hz (British plug)
Calling code+66
Internet TLD.sg
Time zoneUTC+8

I suggest the following lines be added to all the World Factbook quick bars:

  • Electricity volts/hertz (plug type)
  • Calling code +NN
  • Internet TLD .xx
  • Time zone UTC±N (UTC±M in summer)

Comments? See example box from Singapore. Jpatokal 02:05, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

Teaser pic atop infobox

I've always found infoboxes a rather dull way to start a country article, so I tried adding a picture atop the Singapore infobox. Comments? 12:11, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)

Me too. I'd love to move the infoboxes to a template and then figure out how to stick them at the end of the article. Anyways, yes, that looks good. --Evan 12:29, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)

Money section

In Russia, Morocco and probably other countries separate sections for Money exist. Is it time to add a Money section under Buy in this template? --DenisYurkin 18:51, 2 December 2006 (EST)

That might be a good idea, but I don't think it should be under the "Buy" section, but rather an independent header or under the "Understand" section. -- Andrew H. (Sapphire) 19:40, 2 December 2006 (EST)
Have a look at the description under Wikitravel:Country article template#Buy - I think the description covers everything you want included. Therefore, aside from better-organizing the content within the "Buy" section, what do we gain by adding this heading to all country articles? There's nothing stopping someone from adding the sub-heading to a specific country article, but putting it in the template means that it's expected to be there. I don't disagree that it might be a nice way to re-organize content if we had lots more country articles to create, but given that every country has an article the question is whether it's worth the effort to retroactively add a sub-heading to all articles. I'm not opposed, but I don't see a need for it either. -- Ryan 19:53, 2 December 2006 (EST)

Appropriate to have sleep section in country page?

Archived from the Pub:

The reason I ask is that someone has duplicated (part) of the 'sleep' entry I made in the 'Nelson' section into New Zealand. Surely it is inappropriate to have a 'Sleep' section for a whole country (unless it is very tiny or lacking in possibilities to lay one's head)? W. Frank 09:07, 7 March 2007 (EST)

The sleep section for countries and regions is not for individual listings but rather to provide an overview on the accommodation in that particular area. Check out the Japan article to see a good example of what that section should look like. -- Ricardo (Rmx) 09:25, 7 March 2007 (EST)
Thanks for that clarification, Ricardo. I see that there have been quite a few jokers running around on New Zealand since I left my original message. I have just deleted the italicised section of this text:
In New Zealand, armed police are a media event (unlike gangs). Although all police officers are trained to handle firearms, these are normally only openly worn when the situation requires such weapons, such as an armed offender. Traditionally, New Zealand police only carry batons and offender control (pepper) spray. However, first response patrols will generally have recourse to weapons locked away in their vehicle. They don't really hesitate to do this and are known to run along the policy lines of a Dead criminal is better than a talking victim. but bribes should never be offered openly to police officers; this will make your situation worse, not better. In fact, offering a bribe is an excellent way of getting a free tour of a New Zealand prison, court room and police cell, not to mention deportation. But sexual favours are considered the exception to this rule
Hey, Frank, G'Day! Stop being sneaky and sign your posts, you old weasel! When are we going to see you in Omeath again?
(the Grandchildren are off to Singapore, Cebu and Nelson early next month so you could stay in your usual room)
...Gaimhreadhan (kiwiexile at DMOZ) • 12:36, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
I think you should keep your voice down in here, G - you don't know who's listening (grin). Since when did they make you an open directory editor?W. Frank 10:40, 23 March 2007 (EDT)

Moving "Understand" to section 1

Someone recently moved the Understand section of Russia up above Regions, and while it technically should be reverted, I think it was a genius move... I love Template:Regionlist, but it often seriously conflicts with Template:Quickbar. Sooo, is there any real reason why we shouldn't swap these around? I think Understand makes perfect sense as section 1, editorially and visually. What say, people of the status quo? – cacahuate talk 17:50, 3 November 2007 (EDT)

Just wanted to point out that the problem comes not from a conflict between the quickbar and regionlist templates, it results from the fact that the quickbar takes up all the right-aligned space through the prime map real estate of country articles. But more to the point, I think that this is a good idea, and that the advantages of putting Understand at the top outweigh the advantages of keeping the cities/regions lists as an index at the top. --Peter Talk 03:42, 4 November 2007 (EST)
BUMP! – cacahuate talk 02:34, 6 November 2007 (EST)
I'm kinda "meh" on this. Having empty space up top sucks, but not having a handy list of regions/cities as the very first thing in the article sucks more. Jpatokal 03:22, 6 November 2007 (EST)
To be sure, it would be awful to navigate Russia's regions, for example, if you had to scroll down each time to get to the region and city lists. But this proposal is just for the country template, which someone is only likely to navigate through once while surfing. And people likely have to scroll down now as it is because of the conflict between region maps and the quickbar. I say better an understand section than The Great Satanwhitespace. --Peter Talk 03:54, 6 November 2007 (EST)

I just moved the "Understand" section for Poland, because of the regionlist and quickbar conflict. The quickbar conflict was pushing the region map well below the "Regions" section. Barring any objections, I'll make the change official policy and start plugging away at other country guides. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 07:15, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

Any other thoughts on this? How strongly against it are you Jani? I'd really like to move forward on this if there's no serious objections – cacahuate talk 19:37, 20 June 2008 (EDT)
Alrighty, moving forward with this; I'll go slowly, and give people time to shout – cacahuate talk 22:01, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

See section

Shouldn't there be a "see" section on this template? Is this a mistake? --Peter Talk 23:58, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

And a "do" section—am I missing something here? --Peter Talk 10:43, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
I don't think it's a mistake, but I don't feel that strongly either way... it does almost feel silly to have them on a country page, wouldn't the region, city and other destination sections already cover most of the highlights of a country? The often are filled with random, mostly useless info when they are used... Australia and England for instance – cacahuate talk 11:50, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Point taken, although by that logic, we should also get rid of country "respect" sections, since that's a time-honored fatuous blather magnet. Also, in the absence of a see section, where should country-wide itineraries go? And I'm still not sure how to answer this question. --Peter Talk 12:49, 27 June 2008 (EDT)
Itineraries can be {{related| }}... or put in "other destinations" maybe... don't know about sports, see or do would make the most sense. Several sections on other templates are optional, as needed, such as Stay healthy, Work, etc... maybe in this case it's one of those. There may be cases where there's substantial and relevant things to say in those sections, and then they should be used... but I personally dislike useless lists like: ski, snowboard, hiking, nature walks.... it's not about listing everything there is to see or do, just notable things, like cricket in India for instance – cacahuate talk 00:42, 28 June 2008 (EDT)
I agree with cacahuate; receational/adventure sports like Skiing/snowboarding/paragliding are different from spectator sports like cricket (in India), football (in Europe), or that weird helmet-bashing thing that they play in America. The latter can fall under Culture as well as Do. That's the problem. How do other guides like Lonely Planet sort this one out? Upamanyuwikitravel( Talk )( Travel ) • 03:16, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

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