Wikitravel talk:Copyleft - Revision history

Pashley: Reverted edits by IBAlex (Talk) to last version by Cjensen

2012-11-02T01:11:34Z

Reverted edits by IBAlex (Talk) to last version by Cjensen

IBAlex: admin edit

2012-11-01T21:41:46Z

admin edit

IBAlex: admin edit

2012-11-01T21:38:23Z

admin edit

Cjensen: Reverted edits by 200.76.101.153 (Talk) to last version by Dguillaime

2009-05-30T15:59:04Z

Reverted edits by 200.76.101.153 (Talk) to last version by Dguillaime

200.76.101.153: /* Discussion */

2009-05-30T12:59:33Z

‎Discussion

Dguillaime: Undo revision 1059248 by 202.168.193.131 (Talk)

2009-02-12T21:20:28Z

Undo revision 1059248 by 202.168.193.131 (Talk)

202.168.193.131: /* Discussion */

2009-02-12T21:15:17Z

‎Discussion

Paul Richter: swept in from pub

2008-09-17T03:22:43Z

swept in from pub

Paul Richter: swept in from pub

2008-09-17T03:10:18Z

swept in from pub

DenisYurkin: move all discussions to shared:?

2008-02-17T08:22:52Z

move all discussions to shared:?

@@ Line 274: / Line 274: @@
 Thank you very much for your future co-operation. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 20:44, 6 January 2007 (EST)
-:Check out [[Wikitravel:Mirrors]] which lists the mirrors we are aware of.  Since your username is pretty unique, Googling for "JensANDMarian" results in nearly a thousand hits most of which are presumably related to your contributions (the number of sites will be less, of course) and may give you an idea of the scope of what you are asking.  Lastly, we are not in the habit of verifying the lack of naughtiness of our users, so it's entirely conceivable that some innocent user will find your images on a different site, note that the license is appropriate for copying back to Wikitravel, and will copy it. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 20:54, 6 January 2007 (EST)
+:Check out [[Wikitravel:Mirrors]] which lists the mirrors we are aware of.  Since your username is pretty unique, Googling for "JensANDMarian" results in nearly a thousand hits most of which are presumably related to your contributions (the number of sites will be less, of course) and may give you an idea of the scope of what you are asking.  Also checkout our beloved fork, [http://wikivoyage.org/ WikiVoyage] which has also copied your stuff.  Lastly, we are not in the habit of verifying the lack of naughtiness of our users, so it's entirely conceivable that some innocent user will find your images on a different site, note that the license is appropriate for copying back to Wikitravel, and will copy it. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 20:54, 6 January 2007 (EST)
 :: Just to add another comment here, I'm in favor of deleting Jen's images that are currently on Wikitravel, but I'm COMPLETELY opposed to policing Wikitravel, the mirrors, or anywhere else to make sure these images aren't re-uploaded: Jens, you released them under the CC-SA, and they are on the web and available for anyone to use them under that license.  In the future, if someone re-uploads one of your images here after grabbing it from another site, that's definitely not "naughty", that's legal under the terms of the license that YOU agreed to.  Second, I don't expect Colin, Evan or anyone else to assist in deleting these images from anywhere other than Wikitravel - assuming other sites are providing attribution, they are using the images legally.  Jens, again, if you want them deleted it's up to you to track down the images, and it's also up to you to convince site owners to delete content that they are legally using. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 21:02, 6 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 287: / Line 287: @@
 * '''Keep'''.  As others have said, the license does not allow for the retraction of rights.  With the exception of [[:Image:DSC01650.jpg]], which seems to violate [[Wikitravel:Image_policy#People_in_photos]].  For that, I vote '''Delete'''.  -- [[User:Jonboy|Jonboy]] 02:19, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 ** He seems to mean all his pictures, which can be found through [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=JensANDMarian&namespace=6 this link].  JensANDMarian, can you please check that link and clarify if you mean to nominate all the other ones too? A number of his images were meant for his user page. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 02:32, 7 January 2007 (EST)
-*'''Delete''', but '''keep''' if somebody copies them back in from one of the mirrors, especially if they come from WV. I'm seriously confused as to why people who are unable to see that having IB own the right to host the site has changed ''exactly nothing'', however it harms us not the least to comply with this request. Meanwhile the funny thing is that '''Lonely Planet''' and '''Microsoft''' still have Jens' and Maria's ''express permission'' to use the images, but not us. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 03:13, 7 January 2007 (EST)
+*'''Delete''', but '''keep''' if somebody copies them back in from one of the mirrors, especially if they come from Wikivoyage. I'm seriously confused as to why people who are unable to see that having IB own the right to host the site has changed ''exactly nothing'', however it harms us not the least to comply with this request. Meanwhile the funny thing is that '''Lonely Planet''' and '''Microsoft''' still have Jens' and Maria's ''express permission'' to use the images, but not us. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 03:13, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 Mark, other sites that use for example the KNP article from Wikitravel have done simply done a copy paste job. Once they update their Wikitravel article they will display the latest version of the Wikitravel article and if my images have been deleted they will put an update without those images on their servers. Therefore is it only a matter of time till all my images are removed from WT and sites that use articles and pictures from Wikitravel.  Obviously, it will take some time till the last webpage gets updated, but it will eventually happen. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 294: / Line 294: @@
 ::So what's mine is yours, but what's yours is only for you if you change your mind because of something which as far as I can tell does not effect our relationship a tiny little bit.  That's the thing, you still don't seem to understand.  IB may own the servers this site runs on, and may own the trademark to the name, but you and I and the others still own the content, and we always have.
 ::So, I suppose that there are scads of my work showing up in a certain other project, and you know what: That's tough, but the license is the license is the license. You are free to use my work wherever you like because I understand that the stand I took for Free Content is the stand I meant to take. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 09:58, 9 January 2007 (EST)
-:::You realy seem to be pretty militant, but not neccessarily for freedom. We still expect your apology. -- [[User:Hansm|Hansm]] 04:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
+:::You realy seem to be pretty [http://wikivoyage.org/general/Talk:Fork_FAQ militant], but not neccessarily for freedom. We still expect your apology. -- [[User:Hansm|Hansm]] 04:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
-::::For what?  For pointing out to WV-ers that you are behaving badly in other forums?  For asking you to apologise to evan?  For making you look like the jerk that you are? -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 11:59, 17 January 2007 (EST)
+::::For what?  For pointing out to Wikivoyagers that you are behaving badly in other forums?  For asking you to apologise to evan?  For making you look like the jerk that you are? -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 11:59, 17 January 2007 (EST)
 * I'm abstaining from this vote, for now, but I have a question for everyone that's voting delete out  of courtesy.  Hypothetically, if I get all pissed off at you guys (especially [[:User:Evan|Mr. Prodromou]] - I might as well join the bandwagon) for not telling me the domain and servers are owned by IB, or because IB starts advertising with the annoying blinking ads saying I was the  10,000,000th million visitor and won some non-existent Playstation 3, and I demand all the photos I own the copyright to be removed from the WT sites do you extend the courtesy?  What if I demand that you delete ''every'' single contribution I made?  I'm worried that we're becoming a little too courteous.  In the past couple of months we've become increasingly accommodating, so much so I can't tell where we draw the lines between being reasonable and trying to protect people from their inability to read the ''By clicking "Save" below, you acknowledge that you agree to the site license as well as the following:'' line.  -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 03:54, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 ** Here's my opinion, others probably feel differently.  There seem to be a lot of jobs that come up around here where some people say "I don't want to do it, but if someone else is willing to do it then I don't care if they do" ([[Special:Contributions/74.69.245.148]] comes to mind...), and generally someone else is willing to do the job.  In this case I don't mind tracking down Jens' images and deleting them from the site, and since he's asked us to do so it seems like the courteous thing to do.  If 10 people a week were asking us to remove their images, or if someone who had contributed hundreds of images was doing so, my willingness to accommodate them would be considerably less, especially since we have numerous notices about the site's licensing.  However, I also think that if we had 10 people a week asking for their contributions to be removed then we'd be talking about how to make people better understand the license, rather than whether to extend a courtesy to someone who should have read the license but didn't. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 04:24, 7 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 301: / Line 301: @@
 * '''Question for JensANDMarian:''' it appears that you are working on WikiVoyage, which is no doubt a fine project.  But if you are uploading images there, then you are once again giving us rights to your images (you have read the license by now, right?).  So do you plan on asking WikiVoyage to remove your images? -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 15:17, 7 January 2007 (EST)
-[[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)
+*[http://wikivoyage.org/ WikiVoyage] is an separate issue and I have to discuss this with Hansm on  the German site. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)
 ** Jens, both sites are under the CC-SA license, so it is not a separate issue.  Either you want to release your content under the CC-SA or you do not.  You cannot make contributions to WikiVoyage and then request that those contributions not be used on Wikitravel - read [[Wikitravel:Copyleft]] and the text of the CC-SA license.  The issue is whether or not you want your content under the CC-SA or not; if you do not, I vote to '''delete''' the images you've specified.  If you DO want your content released under the CC-SA but do not want it used on Wikitravel then you are adding additional restrictions to the CC-SA license, which is not allowed, and therefore I would say we should '''keep''' your contributions on the site. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 11:05, 8 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 338: / Line 338: @@
 **I think it's tough from all the unanswered questions.  You wrote ''"The issue is whether or not you want your content under the CC-SA or not; if you do not, I vote to delete the images you've specified"''.  I suspect Jens might understand the cc-bysa by now, but he has not given any clear indication of this nor has he retracted his bogus '''"Since I am the copyright holder of the pictures I am entitled to refuse"''' even though he seems to want to contribute to the Fork.  Jens also hasn't directly answered questions about whether he wants to contribute these to the fork or whether he meant to nominate his other images.  Jens hasn't initiated the VfD process on German Wikitravel.  All despite the fact that he's had plenty of time to write diatribes about the "commercialization" of Wikitravel whatever that is supposed to mean.
 **So at this point, in light of your understanding of whether or not Jens wants to comply with cc-bysa, what is your vote on this? FWIW, if Jens will say he wishes he never released under cc-bysa and wants his images removed from ''all'' cc-bysa sites, I'd be willing to switch to delete. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 13:15, 18 January 2007 (EST)
-*** Given the comment from Jens "''I will approach other websites that host my pictures and ask them to take off their website to prevent any confusion in that matter''" I'm sticking with a '''delete''' vote.  It's clear that we don't have to remove any content that has been released under the CC-SA, and there are strong arguments to be made that removing such content is against the spirit of the license (see Mark's SCO argument), but in this case I view it as a courtesy to Jens, who seems to have not understood the ramifications of the CC-SA when he originally uploaded his content.  That said, should he upload photos to WV or any other CC-SA site (which he says he will not do), he has had his chance to claim ignorance of the license and I wouldn't have any opposition to using those pictures here. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 22:59, 18 January 2007 (EST)
+*** Given the comment from Jens "''I will approach other websites that host my pictures and ask them to take off their website to prevent any confusion in that matter''" I'm sticking with a '''delete''' vote.  It's clear that we don't have to remove any content that has been released under the CC-SA, and there are strong arguments to be made that removing such content is against the spirit of the license (see Mark's SCO argument), but in this case I view it as a courtesy to Jens, who seems to have not understood the ramifications of the CC-SA when he originally uploaded his content.  That said, should he upload photos to wikivoyage or any other CC-SA site (which he says he will not do), he has had his chance to claim ignorance of the license and I wouldn't have any opposition to using those pictures here. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 22:59, 18 January 2007 (EST)
 ****For what it's worth, even though I've argued very strenuously that we shouldn't worry about the images coming back from some other source that did vote to delete them in the first place.  I still think that Jens doesn't understand the license, or for that matter the goals and non-goals of the project, or even its organisation.  I really don't want to take advantage of his ignorance. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 17:47, 20 January 2007 (EST)
-****Ryan, Jens has not vfd'd his images on WikiVoyage and as far as I can tell they have not been deleted.  Also, I do not see a clear consensus to delete the images, except those with that have his family in the photo and those used solely to illustrate his userpage. -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 13:56, 20 January 2007 (EST)
+****Ryan, Jens has not vfd'd his images on WikiVoyage and as far as I can tell they have not been deleted [http://wikivoyage.org/w/shared/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=delete&user=&page=&limit=250&offset=0].  Also, I do not see a clear consensus to delete the images, except those with that have his family in the photo and those used solely to illustrate his userpage. -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 13:56, 20 January 2007 (EST)
 :::: I have asked Wikitravel to delete the picutures specified above, because I uploaded them onto your (WT) server. So far there is a ongoing discussion but the pics are still there. I will approach other sites once I have dealed with Wikitravel. I think that is fair!!!

@@ Line 294: / Line 294: @@
 ::So what's mine is yours, but what's yours is only for you if you change your mind because of something which as far as I can tell does not effect our relationship a tiny little bit.  That's the thing, you still don't seem to understand.  IB may own the servers this site runs on, and may own the trademark to the name, but you and I and the others still own the content, and we always have.
 ::So, I suppose that there are scads of my work showing up in a certain other project, and you know what: That's tough, but the license is the license is the license. You are free to use my work wherever you like because I understand that the stand I took for Free Content is the stand I meant to take. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 09:58, 9 January 2007 (EST)
-:::You realy seem to be pretty [http://wikivoyage.org/general/Talk:Fork_FAQ militant], but not neccessarily for freedom. We still expect your apology. -- [[User:Hansm|Hansm]] 04:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
+:::You realy seem to be pretty militant, but not neccessarily for freedom. We still expect your apology. -- [[User:Hansm|Hansm]] 04:18, 14 January 2007 (EST)
-::::For what?  For pointing out to Wikivoyagers that you are behaving badly in other forums?  For asking you to apologise to evan?  For making you look like the jerk that you are? -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 11:59, 17 January 2007 (EST)
+::::For what?  For pointing out to WV-ers that you are behaving badly in other forums?  For asking you to apologise to evan?  For making you look like the jerk that you are? -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 11:59, 17 January 2007 (EST)
 * I'm abstaining from this vote, for now, but I have a question for everyone that's voting delete out  of courtesy.  Hypothetically, if I get all pissed off at you guys (especially [[:User:Evan|Mr. Prodromou]] - I might as well join the bandwagon) for not telling me the domain and servers are owned by IB, or because IB starts advertising with the annoying blinking ads saying I was the  10,000,000th million visitor and won some non-existent Playstation 3, and I demand all the photos I own the copyright to be removed from the WT sites do you extend the courtesy?  What if I demand that you delete ''every'' single contribution I made?  I'm worried that we're becoming a little too courteous.  In the past couple of months we've become increasingly accommodating, so much so I can't tell where we draw the lines between being reasonable and trying to protect people from their inability to read the ''By clicking "Save" below, you acknowledge that you agree to the site license as well as the following:'' line.  -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 03:54, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 ** Here's my opinion, others probably feel differently.  There seem to be a lot of jobs that come up around here where some people say "I don't want to do it, but if someone else is willing to do it then I don't care if they do" ([[Special:Contributions/74.69.245.148]] comes to mind...), and generally someone else is willing to do the job.  In this case I don't mind tracking down Jens' images and deleting them from the site, and since he's asked us to do so it seems like the courteous thing to do.  If 10 people a week were asking us to remove their images, or if someone who had contributed hundreds of images was doing so, my willingness to accommodate them would be considerably less, especially since we have numerous notices about the site's licensing.  However, I also think that if we had 10 people a week asking for their contributions to be removed then we'd be talking about how to make people better understand the license, rather than whether to extend a courtesy to someone who should have read the license but didn't. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 04:24, 7 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 301: / Line 301: @@
 * '''Question for JensANDMarian:''' it appears that you are working on WikiVoyage, which is no doubt a fine project.  But if you are uploading images there, then you are once again giving us rights to your images (you have read the license by now, right?).  So do you plan on asking WikiVoyage to remove your images? -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 15:17, 7 January 2007 (EST)
-*[http://wikivoyage.org/ WikiVoyage] is an separate issue and I have to discuss this with Hansm on  the German site. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)
+[[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)
 ** Jens, both sites are under the CC-SA license, so it is not a separate issue.  Either you want to release your content under the CC-SA or you do not.  You cannot make contributions to WikiVoyage and then request that those contributions not be used on Wikitravel - read [[Wikitravel:Copyleft]] and the text of the CC-SA license.  The issue is whether or not you want your content under the CC-SA or not; if you do not, I vote to '''delete''' the images you've specified.  If you DO want your content released under the CC-SA but do not want it used on Wikitravel then you are adding additional restrictions to the CC-SA license, which is not allowed, and therefore I would say we should '''keep''' your contributions on the site. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 11:05, 8 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 338: / Line 338: @@
 **I think it's tough from all the unanswered questions.  You wrote ''"The issue is whether or not you want your content under the CC-SA or not; if you do not, I vote to delete the images you've specified"''.  I suspect Jens might understand the cc-bysa by now, but he has not given any clear indication of this nor has he retracted his bogus '''"Since I am the copyright holder of the pictures I am entitled to refuse"''' even though he seems to want to contribute to the Fork.  Jens also hasn't directly answered questions about whether he wants to contribute these to the fork or whether he meant to nominate his other images.  Jens hasn't initiated the VfD process on German Wikitravel.  All despite the fact that he's had plenty of time to write diatribes about the "commercialization" of Wikitravel whatever that is supposed to mean.
 **So at this point, in light of your understanding of whether or not Jens wants to comply with cc-bysa, what is your vote on this? FWIW, if Jens will say he wishes he never released under cc-bysa and wants his images removed from ''all'' cc-bysa sites, I'd be willing to switch to delete. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 13:15, 18 January 2007 (EST)
-*** Given the comment from Jens "''I will approach other websites that host my pictures and ask them to take off their website to prevent any confusion in that matter''" I'm sticking with a '''delete''' vote.  It's clear that we don't have to remove any content that has been released under the CC-SA, and there are strong arguments to be made that removing such content is against the spirit of the license (see Mark's SCO argument), but in this case I view it as a courtesy to Jens, who seems to have not understood the ramifications of the CC-SA when he originally uploaded his content.  That said, should he upload photos to wikivoyage or any other CC-SA site (which he says he will not do), he has had his chance to claim ignorance of the license and I wouldn't have any opposition to using those pictures here. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 22:59, 18 January 2007 (EST)
+*** Given the comment from Jens "''I will approach other websites that host my pictures and ask them to take off their website to prevent any confusion in that matter''" I'm sticking with a '''delete''' vote.  It's clear that we don't have to remove any content that has been released under the CC-SA, and there are strong arguments to be made that removing such content is against the spirit of the license (see Mark's SCO argument), but in this case I view it as a courtesy to Jens, who seems to have not understood the ramifications of the CC-SA when he originally uploaded his content.  That said, should he upload photos to WV or any other CC-SA site (which he says he will not do), he has had his chance to claim ignorance of the license and I wouldn't have any opposition to using those pictures here. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 22:59, 18 January 2007 (EST)
 ****For what it's worth, even though I've argued very strenuously that we shouldn't worry about the images coming back from some other source that did vote to delete them in the first place.  I still think that Jens doesn't understand the license, or for that matter the goals and non-goals of the project, or even its organisation.  I really don't want to take advantage of his ignorance. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 17:47, 20 January 2007 (EST)
-****Ryan, Jens has not vfd'd his images on WikiVoyage and as far as I can tell they have not been deleted [http://wikivoyage.org/w/shared/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=delete&user=&page=&limit=250&offset=0].  Also, I do not see a clear consensus to delete the images, except those with that have his family in the photo and those used solely to illustrate his userpage. -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 13:56, 20 January 2007 (EST)
+****Ryan, Jens has not vfd'd his images on WikiVoyage and as far as I can tell they have not been deleted.  Also, I do not see a clear consensus to delete the images, except those with that have his family in the photo and those used solely to illustrate his userpage. -- [[User:Sapphire|Andrew H. (Sapphire)]] 13:56, 20 January 2007 (EST)
 :::: I have asked Wikitravel to delete the picutures specified above, because I uploaded them onto your (WT) server. So far there is a ongoing discussion but the pics are still there. I will approach other sites once I have dealed with Wikitravel. I think that is fair!!!

@@ Line 274: / Line 274: @@
 Thank you very much for your future co-operation. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 20:44, 6 January 2007 (EST)
-:Check out [[Wikitravel:Mirrors]] which lists the mirrors we are aware of.  Since your username is pretty unique, Googling for "JensANDMarian" results in nearly a thousand hits most of which are presumably related to your contributions (the number of sites will be less, of course) and may give you an idea of the scope of what you are asking.  Also checkout our beloved fork, [http://wikivoyage.org/ WikiVoyage] which has also copied your stuff.  Lastly, we are not in the habit of verifying the lack of naughtiness of our users, so it's entirely conceivable that some innocent user will find your images on a different site, note that the license is appropriate for copying back to Wikitravel, and will copy it. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 20:54, 6 January 2007 (EST)
+:Check out [[Wikitravel:Mirrors]] which lists the mirrors we are aware of.  Since your username is pretty unique, Googling for "JensANDMarian" results in nearly a thousand hits most of which are presumably related to your contributions (the number of sites will be less, of course) and may give you an idea of the scope of what you are asking.  Lastly, we are not in the habit of verifying the lack of naughtiness of our users, so it's entirely conceivable that some innocent user will find your images on a different site, note that the license is appropriate for copying back to Wikitravel, and will copy it. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 20:54, 6 January 2007 (EST)
 :: Just to add another comment here, I'm in favor of deleting Jen's images that are currently on Wikitravel, but I'm COMPLETELY opposed to policing Wikitravel, the mirrors, or anywhere else to make sure these images aren't re-uploaded: Jens, you released them under the CC-SA, and they are on the web and available for anyone to use them under that license.  In the future, if someone re-uploads one of your images here after grabbing it from another site, that's definitely not "naughty", that's legal under the terms of the license that YOU agreed to.  Second, I don't expect Colin, Evan or anyone else to assist in deleting these images from anywhere other than Wikitravel - assuming other sites are providing attribution, they are using the images legally.  Jens, again, if you want them deleted it's up to you to track down the images, and it's also up to you to convince site owners to delete content that they are legally using. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] 21:02, 6 January 2007 (EST)
@@ Line 287: / Line 287: @@
 * '''Keep'''.  As others have said, the license does not allow for the retraction of rights.  With the exception of [[:Image:DSC01650.jpg]], which seems to violate [[Wikitravel:Image_policy#People_in_photos]].  For that, I vote '''Delete'''.  -- [[User:Jonboy|Jonboy]] 02:19, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 ** He seems to mean all his pictures, which can be found through [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=JensANDMarian&namespace=6 this link].  JensANDMarian, can you please check that link and clarify if you mean to nominate all the other ones too? A number of his images were meant for his user page. -- [[User:Cjensen|Colin]] 02:32, 7 January 2007 (EST)
-*'''Delete''', but '''keep''' if somebody copies them back in from one of the mirrors, especially if they come from Wikivoyage. I'm seriously confused as to why people who are unable to see that having IB own the right to host the site has changed ''exactly nothing'', however it harms us not the least to comply with this request. Meanwhile the funny thing is that '''Lonely Planet''' and '''Microsoft''' still have Jens' and Maria's ''express permission'' to use the images, but not us. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 03:13, 7 January 2007 (EST)
+*'''Delete''', but '''keep''' if somebody copies them back in from one of the mirrors, especially if they come from WV. I'm seriously confused as to why people who are unable to see that having IB own the right to host the site has changed ''exactly nothing'', however it harms us not the least to comply with this request. Meanwhile the funny thing is that '''Lonely Planet''' and '''Microsoft''' still have Jens' and Maria's ''express permission'' to use the images, but not us. -- [[User:Mark|Mark]] 03:13, 7 January 2007 (EST)
 Mark, other sites that use for example the KNP article from Wikitravel have done simply done a copy paste job. Once they update their Wikitravel article they will display the latest version of the Wikitravel article and if my images have been deleted they will put an update without those images on their servers. Therefore is it only a matter of time till all my images are removed from WT and sites that use articles and pictures from Wikitravel.  Obviously, it will take some time till the last webpage gets updated, but it will eventually happen. [[User:JensANDMarian|JensANDMarian]] 10:18, 8 January 2007 (EST)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ''See also: [[:shared:Talk:Copyleft]]''
-rqjODY my best site http://horror.com
+==Discussion==
 ==New version of CC licenses==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ''See also: [[:shared:Talk:Copyleft]]''
-==Discussion==
+rqjODY my best site http://horror.com
-−
-Hey wait a minute. Shouldn't you say that "all work is considered to be released under the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license 1.0 or '''any later version released by Creative Commons'''"? So far it looks like you guys are locking in on just the 1.0 version of this license which may prevent you from taking advantage of changes that 1.1 or greater versions of the CC-Att/SA license may have (such as possible compatibility with the GNU FDL 2.0 or later so long as no invariant options are exercised). --[[User:Maveric149|Maveric149]]
-−
-:Mav, you're absolutely right. Weirdly, the CC license don't have a "or any later version" clause, nor do the suggested tags for using the license. I'm contacting the CC people about this issue right now to see how we can deal with it. Thanks for pointing it out. -- [[User:Evan|Evan]] 19:01, 14 Aug 2003 (PDT)
-−
-::That's a big uh oh on CC's part. Glad I was able to help. --mav
 ==New version of CC licenses==

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	:::However, I'd say do it now. [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 04:35, 22 January 2008 (EST)		:::However, I'd say do it now. [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 04:35, 22 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	== Copyvios & "permission notes" ==
		+
		+	Two questions.
		+
		+	1) The <nowiki>{{copyvio}}</nowiki> tag says: "''If you are the author of the content in question, please let us know that it's OK for us to use your work by leaving a note on the talk page''". Do we have any guidelines on what kind of "note" is acceptable? For example, are these "notes" considered acceptable/credible:
		+	* [[Talk:Laurentides]] ([[User:Laurentides]])
		+	* [[User:Borndistinction]] ([[User talk:Borndistinction]])
		+
		+	2) Do we have any guidelines as to what should happen subsequent to a <nowiki>{{copyvio}}</nowiki> tag being added?
		+
		+	Thanks. ~ [[User:203.144.143.4\|203.144.143.4]] 03:33, 25 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	: I'd accept Laurentides because he/she explains it, and gives an email address at the source site. I would not accept BD who just says "on behalf of" without specifically claiming affiliation or permission. [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 05:05, 25 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	:: This is a tough one. Anyone can claim anything and we obviously can't do a follow up check. Like [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]], I'd be inclined to accept [[Talk:Laurentides]] because of the email address (is it possible to forward a copy of the license to that address so that they know they're relinquishing their copyright to the material) and reject [[User:Borndistinction]] because there is no reasonable way of confirming the release. In both cases, the contributed does not claim authorship but says that the original author (or rather copyright owner) has agreed to the material being used whereas the copyvio tag seems to want only the original author to post material. Perhaps the tag can be modified along the following lines: "If you are the author of the content in question, or if the original author or copyright owner has given you permission to use this material, please let us know that it's OK for us to use this work by leaving a note on the talk page, along with the email address of the author or copyright owner so that we can, if necessary, send a copy of our cc-by-sa-1.0 license." --[[User:Wandering\|Wandering]] 12:05, 25 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	I think a [[Wikitravel:How to deal with copyvios]] page is needed. The existing [[Wikitravel:How to handle unwanted edits#Copyright violations]] guidelines are out of date and incomplete, and I think that section should be moved to a dedicated page, updated, and expanded. ~ [[User:203.144.143.4\|203.144.143.4]] 11:40, 26 January 2008 (EST)

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	As long as the main article simply redirects to shared:, can we move all the discussion archives there as well, to keep things organized? With no objections to follow during 2 weeks, I will plunge forward. --[[User:DenisYurkin\|DenisYurkin]] 03:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)		As long as the main article simply redirects to shared:, can we move all the discussion archives there as well, to keep things organized? With no objections to follow during 2 weeks, I will plunge forward. --[[User:DenisYurkin\|DenisYurkin]] 03:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	== cc by sa 1.0 disclaimer on Edit page ==
		+
		+	Shouldn't that read "If you do not want your work to be re-used'', for commercial or other purposes,'' on other web sites, ''print or other media'' or modified by other users please do not submit!" In re the discussion on [[Wikitravel Talk:Wikitravel Press]] the current warning seems inadequate.--[[User:Wandering\|Wandering]] 18:13, 21 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	: Also:
		+	: "''All contributions must be your own original work or work that is explicitly licensed under a CC-BY-SA compatible license.''"
		+	: Should read:
		+	: "''All contributions must be your own original work or work that is explicitly licensed as CC-BY-SA-1.0''"
		+	: The "compatible license" part should be removed as there are none (alternatively it could be left in and made to link to [[:shared:Copyleft#Compatible licenses]], but I'm sure it's best to keep it clear and simple and just take it out altogether). ~ [[User:58.8.8.167\|58.8.8.167]] 00:08, 22 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	::I agree that the edit window message is misleading—by specifically mentioning "other web sites," it makes it seem as though it can be re-used ''only'' by other web sites. I'd prefer an accurate, clear, and to the point message like:
		+
		+	::''If you do not want your work to be available for anyone to use within the terms of our [[Wikitravel:Copyleft\|Copyleft]], or allow it to be modified by other users, please do not submit!''
		+
		+	::But for the second point, I'd prefer to ''not'' alter that until we, IB, and Creative Commons have decided definitively what we are going to do [[:shared:Tech:License upgrade\|here]].
		+
		+	::On another note, it seemed that my simple addition of the zh: link to the MediaWiki Recentchangestext the other night ''crashed our servers for a full hour''. That's really not acceptable. I'm worried that this change will cause a similar crash. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald\|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald\|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:42, 22 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	:::I agree with Peter on the shorter message with a link to [[Wikitravel:Copyleft\|Copyleft]] for the details.
		+
		+	:::However, I'd say do it now. [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 04:35, 22 January 2008 (EST)

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	::: See also the discussion just above under [[#GFDL and Creative Commons]] [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 09:04, 14 January 2008 (EST)		::: See also the discussion just above under [[#GFDL and Creative Commons]] [[User:Pashley\|Pashley]] 09:04, 14 January 2008 (EST)
		+
		+	== move all discussions to shared:? ==
		+
		+	As long as the main article simply redirects to shared:, can we move all the discussion archives there as well, to keep things organized? With no objections to follow during 2 weeks, I will plunge forward. --[[User:DenisYurkin\|DenisYurkin]] 03:22, 17 February 2008 (EST)