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(Vancouver districts and Vancouver 2010 page)
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I'd also like to get people's thoughts on the [[Vancouver 2010]] page. Olympics articles are something we haven't done too well in the past and I'd like to [[Talk:Vancouver 2010|change it for 2010]]. Not sure what to do with it at this point, any thoughts are welcome. [[User:Shaund|Shaund]] 02:10, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
 
I'd also like to get people's thoughts on the [[Vancouver 2010]] page. Olympics articles are something we haven't done too well in the past and I'd like to [[Talk:Vancouver 2010|change it for 2010]]. Not sure what to do with it at this point, any thoughts are welcome. [[User:Shaund|Shaund]] 02:10, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
 +
:An article on Vancouver during the olympics sounds like a good idea, we dont have to repeat everything thats nicely written in the Vancouver article i.e. how to fly in but focus on such things that are specific to the olympics: i.e. How to get to the bobsleigh-track, and where it is-probably far off from Vancouver in the mountains somewhere. /[[User:Johan Jönsson|Johan Jönsson]] 11:16, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

Revision as of 15:20, 20 July 2009


The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.

If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the Mediawiki software, please post that on the Technical requests page on Wikitravel Shared instead.


Contents

Archives

Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it gets too noisy and hard to read. If you see a conversation that could or should be moved to a talk page, please do so, and note the move here.

If a conversation does not fit into any specific talk page, it should be archived to Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives and removed from here 3 months after the last comment in that discussion.

Stuff that's been moved to specific talk pages:

Also, see the Travellers' pub archives for older archived discussions.

Please sweep the pub

So, the TP has been getting kinda crowded and messy. I'd really appreciate if we could all make an effort to clean up a bit by moving discussions to places more appropriate or deleting discussions that have reached their conclusions. It's a tedious job, but like most, it's easier if we do it together. --Evan 16:44, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Should we sweep this out? -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:20, 16 August 2006 (EDT)
Ugh, this place is getting messy and this is the one page I hate to attempt to organize. Anyone want to take a stab at cleaning it up? -- Sapphire(Talk) • 18:29, 11 April 2007 (EDT)
How do you sweep the pub? What are the rules? Anything older than a certain date? There is stuff on here that is many, many months old. Where would be a "place more appropriate" to move the discussions to? Kire1975 01:54, 20 July 2008 (EDT)
Also, I am using the Safari browser, from Apple, on my Windows Vista computer. For some reason the scroll bar on the right side of my edit screen isn't working properly, so the only way to get way down to the bottom of the screen is to grab some text and pull my cursor down to the bottom of the page. It gets really awkward. Cleaning up the pub could help me out with this problem. thanks, Kire1975 02:14, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

One more thing, when I click 'save" on the edit page, it takes a while to processs. Kire1975 04:31, 20 July 2008 (EDT)

How to sweep pub?

That's a good question! Our archiving explanation at the top of this page has become very convoluted—I'm honestly not sure how to sweep the pub anymore. Can anyone explain the revised process? --Peter Talk 00:18, 25 July 2008 (EDT)


I nominate receveli's "request for help" below to be swept out of the pub. the problem is solved. how is it done? the shared wikitravel pages has a pub cellar. Should we create something like that? Kire1975 22:19, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

I have got the broom out today and swept out some of the older stuff. Mostly into the archive pages but, where relevant, into Talk Pages for the destination under discussion. Where I've done the latter I have marked the discussion as "Swept in from the travellers pub" Tarr3n 07:44, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

"Help translate" tag proposal

I have been doing some serious work on Ouro Preto and Mariana and other Brazilian locations, and I noticed that, unsurprisingly, there are a lot of destinations for which the English site has but a skeleton, while the Portuguese version is pretty fleshed out. I'm sure this is the case for many other locations in various other languages as well. In order to promote better cooperation between language versions, I'd like to propose a tag or set of tags for these cases, to be placed at the bottom of such an article or possibly even at the top, indicating that a more complete article exists in x language, and compelling users that speak that language to help translate the information here on en:. What do you guys think? Texugo 11:49, 4 February 2009 (EST)

I think that is a great idea. Additionally, it may be helpful to place a smaller tag at the bottom of the superior articles, compelling multilingual users to contribute to the language articles with less information. Jtesla16 15:18, 4 February 2009 (EST)
I think putting a tag in the superior articles would have us with a tag in almost every article we have, since there is bound to be at least one language version without much of an article. The number of articles which have a good article elsewhere but not here are bound to be more manageable I think. Any other thoughts? Texugo 23:17, 11 February 2009 (EST)
That's true. Your original idea is probably best then. How do we go about creating such a tag? Do we need permission? Jtesla16 08:44, 12 February 2009 (EST)
We don't need permission and I can create it if we decide on the text of the message, but I'd like to hear from a few more people and get a little broader consensus before we start.Texugo 09:58, 12 February 2009 (EST)
I think this idea is quite worthwhile, and it would be nice to also create a Wikitravel:Article translation page, on which we'd add a link to each page that has the Template:Translate template. To increase the visibility of the translation page, we could insert links into the Babel templates (e.g., [[Wikitravel:Article translation#Spanish|español]]). Language on Template:Translate could be something like "This article exists on the [[:xx:Article|XX language version]] in superior form. Please help us with translation!" --Peter Talk 11:59, 12 February 2009 (EST)

I like the way this is solved at Wikipedia (or Wiktionary?): they "star" the most high-quality language article (in the list which is already under the Toolbox), thus encouraging to improve other language versions from that starred one. --DenisYurkin 18:03, 14 February 2009 (EST)

Did someone end up creating a template for this? I think it's a great idea. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:50, 11 April 2009 (EDT)


Cost of living benchmark?

One thing I try to research before visiting somewhere is the relative cost of living, ie how much spending money I'm going to need. Has there been any discussion previously on ways of incorporating any sort of easy benchmark of this into articles or as part of the templates? I'd love to be able to see at a glance that in Riga a diet coke is going to cost me 1.5lats and a pizza for lunch 4 lats. For instance. How to do it in a way useful to all is another question. Has this cropped up before? Andyfarrell 19:04, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

He, I'd be all in for swapping either Government or Religion out of the quick boxes in favour of the Big Mac Index, though I wouldn't know what to do with countries without McDonalds'. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 19:14, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
This is already an objective. See Wikitravel:Country_article_template#Costs. How much money you will need, a cost of common items should be included in the Buy section of country articles, including how much a Big Mac costs, if you like. --Inas 19:33, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
I'd like to see both government and religion leave the quickbox (since that information belongs in "understand"), but I do think adding an infobox to each country's "buy" section displaying its big mac index score would be useful. It should be year end data, so it will be simple to update without following every fluctuation. --Peter Talk 20:20, 31 March 2009 (EDT)
Generally, the relative costs of things are found in the Buy section, although only some countries' articles mention such info. You'd need to find an appropriate index. Cost of living indexes and "most expensive for expatriates" include things like taxes, housing, etc. To further complicate things, prices can be drastically different throughout the country. Accommodation may not be uniform...for instance, a 4-5star hotel in an African capital might be comparable to that of a major European/US city, while small hotels and hostels might be drastically cheaper. It also depends on how you travel...W. Europe generally has much higher prices than the US, but for a long-distance trip, there's the Eurail and hostels everywhere...while long distance travel in the US is very expen$ive and cheap hostels are only found in some large cities. A week in Washington (in a hostel & using the subway) can be much cheaper than a week in London...but a week travelling from NYC to LA is probably much more expensive than a week going from London to Paris to Rome. I'm not against doing a price comparison...but there's LOTS of factors which may need to be spelled out to be effective. AHeneen 23:06, 31 March 2009 (EDT)

We did have an article called "What things cost" that was deleted after a very long messy discussion. I argued for keeping it, and rewrote most of it in the process. Put it up for undeletion? Use some of its text (my rewrite was of course brilliant :-) in a new article? Pashley 01:05, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

Could we add something like per capita GDP as a cost indicator in country articles? Could we automate getting the data? There's more than one way to calculate or estimate it, though. Wikipedia has several articles, one here, with links to data sources. Pashley 01:31, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

The main reason we didn't keep that article, though, was that we decided the information belonged firmly in country articles' buy sections (if I remember correctly). Per capita GDP's effects on PPP are very ambiguous and often marginal, especially as PPP is determined by a bunch of additional causes unrelated to per capita income. The big mac index is widely regarded as the most important and accurate measure of varying price levels across nations, so, while imperfect, I think we should limit site-wide information about country PPP to this index, while allowing ourselves greater latitude to go into details in each country's buy section. (E.g., while Japan has exceptionally high food costs that will show up in the big mac index, their high-end electronics are actually quite cheap by international standards.) --Peter Talk 01:40, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
Lets just make the guideline for the Buy section a little more prominent. I'm sure its not difficult to people to include the costs of a few common items in the buy section to give an idea of what things are going to cost, they probably just don't think of it. In the Australia article you will certainly find the cost of a few different styles of meals in the Eat section, what to expect to pay for accommodation in the Sleep section. Its not much good putting the costs of transport in the Get around or Get in sections because they vary so much between locations, but you will find pretty accurate costs in many of the City articles, as well as finer grained costs of accommodation. These are surely the three biggest costs travellers will encounter. I don't really see what is missing there, or what benefit there would be in putting it in a standardised table. I don't know if per capita GDP has any consistent relation to the costs of travel. The USA has a per capita GDP higher than Japan or Australia, but I would say it is cheaper to travel in. The Big Mac index is not a good judge of buying power, it is not officially available for many countries, and it smacks a bit of American cultural imperialism when applied to countries where you have to work a day to buy one. If people want to put the cost of a Big Mac into the Buy or Eat section of a country, where it is relevant to assess the costs of travel there, they are already very free to do so, and this should be encouraged where appropriate. --Inas 01:51, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

One of the many pieces missing from this puzzle is price ranges for the Eat section (and reaching a consensus on Wikitravel talk:Restaurant listings#price ranges what exactly price given for restaurant should reflect: only main dish / average set of meals for this establishment [type] / three-course full meal or something else]]). Anything constructive will be highly appreciated on this. --DenisYurkin 16:43, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

Glad I asked. That's given me some idea of the opinions on this! Thanks particularly to Sertmann for drawing my attention to the Big Mac Index, I like it, but think it's too narrow a measure - it doesn't tell me how much spending money I need to take. It doesn't appear that there is a quick and easy solution to go in an infobox so I guess I will just spend a little time adding to the Costs sections on places I know. Andyfarrell 18:52, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Airport guidance

Following a series of edits by User:DavidG, who edited several Get in by plane sections to list all the cities that can be accessed non-stop from that airport, I think we need some guidance on how to handle such cases. I'm suspicious of its usefulness, but someone else did the same thing to Albuquerque a while back and I decided to let it stay, so I'm really on the fence about this. PerryPlanet Talk 11:58, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

My rule of thumb is that it's useful for those airports where the destinations can be counted on the palm of one hand, but beyond that it's kinda pointless. Just name the busiest routes/airlines and let the user work out the rest. Jpatokal 12:29, 2 April 2009 (EDT)
One big problem with what DavidG is doing is that he's not using disambiguated links. He's linking to New York and Buffalo instead of New York (city) and Buffalo (New York) (just for two examples). LtPowers 21:50, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

Region Articles: Guide Status

It seems like in practice, the "linked destinations" which have a status requirement per WT's Region Guide-Article Status are really only those 5-9 destinations which are outlined in the Regions, Cities, and Other Destinations sections, and not any destination which is linked in the article. If this is in fact the policy, I think we should make this more explicit in the status criteria. Calling them "linked destinations" suggest a status requirement for any internal link in an article. Jtesla16 13:24, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

That's how I always interpreted it, but if it's unclear we should certainly clarify it. LtPowers

Wikitravel on the iPhone

I have not been around here in quite a while, but just ran into a nice iPhone app that I thought you all might want to know about. Gohophop [1]] has released offline versions of some wikitravel content as iPhone apps. For once the content is correctly redistributed under CC licence and attribution is given on each page in the application.

It was quite a surprise to see my photos on the app preview in the iStore.

--Nick 19:21, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

That's cool. Hope to see you around more often! LtPowers 09:40, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

Voice of America's Website of the Week

WT is the website of the week at Voice of America: http://www.voanews.com/english/Science/2009-04-03-voa17.cfm Worth putting this in the banner to replace the Time magazine plug? Jpatokal 03:27, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

I plunged forward and made the change. LtPowers 11:30, 4 April 2009 (EDT)

Program that Scrapes content from Wikitravel and formats it for iPods

Hello Everyone. I started working on a project a while back that takes content from wikitravel and formats it for the iPod - it uses the iPod notes format, and works on any non-touchscreen iPod.

I got a rough, working program going using Ruby, but as I'm not a real programmer I don't think I can develop it any further. So I'm GPL'ing the source code, and putting it on Sourceforge.

I'm looking for a person to help me do one of two things:

  • Be the lead code developer (not too difficult, very small code base)
  • Or, help me get the project on sourceforge in a format that real programmers will be able to take from there.

You can read about it on the Trac Wiki I've setup at sourceforge, http://apps.sourceforge.net/trac/lonelyipod/

If anyone has any suggestions about other places I should post this info, kindly add them below this. bcnstony 14:51, 5 April 2009 (EDT)

Link to TravelBlog?

I discovered TravelBlog a few weeks ago and I think it's a great resource for those less-visited countries. We have links to Wikipedia, Open Directory, & World66, what are your thoughts about adding TravelBlog? It might not be very helpful to view the thousands of blogs in the US, but I have found it very interesting to view travelers' experiences in off-the-beaten path countries like Mauritania, Sudan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Yemen, and many, many more. AHeneen 17:39, 9 April 2009 (EDT)

Annotating Maps

I have uploaded a map
Grisons districts blank.png
from Wikipedia, with correct licensing, of the regions of Graubunden, yet it has no labels and needs some, what is the procedure for doing so. --HJ.Phillips94 08:22, 10 April 2009 (EDT)
The most useful way to do so would be to use Inkscape to create an SVG map that anyone can easily revise. But ultimately I would recommend whatever program works for you—if MS Paint gets the point across, go for it. --Peter Talk 16:50, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

Creating maps

I have read the guidelines on creating maps and my understanding is that real Wikitravel maps can only be created from a computer using Linux. Is that correct? And if yes, is there a way to create temporary maps on other computers which can subsequently be upgrated to Wikitravel maps by people with Linux access? --ClausHansen 10:23, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

You don't need Linux access to create a WT style map, but without it, you will need to do a lot of work in Inksckape. The guide to using Inkscape for WT style maps is here. You can partially automate the process per Wikitravel:How_to_create_a_map#SVG_imports_for_users_without_Linux_access. If you are running into any hitches, please feel free to ask me any questions on my talk page. --Peter Talk 16:50, 10 April 2009 (EDT)

Easier options

I've been thinking about the TP. It's not very accessible to people not used to the world of Wiki's, or computers at all. Wouldn't a more streamlined, "message board-ish" look be better? A lot of people I've been talking to who are of the globetrotting type think that Wikitravel is a great thing (often compared to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) but with a user friendliness that's next to nothing. Making the Traveller's Pup - the place where most people look first - more accessible could generate a higher accessibility to the rest of the site. Just my $0.02. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.235.146.157 (talkcontribs)

Hmmm, fresh idea's is always appreciated, but since we're a wiki, to me at least, it seems pretty natural that our communal area should be wikified too. I don't think we should be trying to make a Thorn Tree here - it's too massive to compete with, and being active over there myself, I'd hate it if we tried - it's really great at what it does. But could you maybe try to specify your idea a bit? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:29, 11 April 2009 (EDT)
By "more accessible" do you mean easier to use, or easier to find? I'd agree with Sertmann that I'd prefer to see it stay a Wiki page, by if you mean it's difficult to find (which I think is a fair argument) I think something could/should be done about that. PerryPlanet Talk 20:43, 11 April 2009 (EDT)
We should keep in mind that the Pub is primarily for contributors, not users of the site. Perhaps we need a more visible place where users can ask questions in a less-complex way. LtPowers 12:50, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Using API

Hello!

I'm interested in knowledge, how to use API? I found API manual: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/api.php, but every example link on it does not seem to work. Do I have to log in to get just the contents of one page of a certain country? Or does anyone have an example, how to use API? Thanks in advance! Agsel 21:02, 12 April 2009 (EDT)

Wikimedia & Creative Commons

Wikipedia is currently holding a referendum on dual licensing content, including wikipedia, to CC-by-sa 3.0. For those of you who are also Wikipedians, I'd encourage you to head over and vote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/1). This also raises some questions I believe. We could start taking a crack at this now, or wait till we have the outcome, where we most certainly will need to discuss this. I've also been looking a bit at Travellers point who also license their content CC-by-sa 3.0.

  1. If this goes through, can users copy 3.0 licensed content to WT, since we use 1.0?
  2. Do we want WP content? (I can think if many cases where we do want it, but also see the pitfalls)
  3. What about attribution? If we are to welcome WP content, how do we deal with this?

Comments appreciated :) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 00:56, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

  1. No. IB's legal team has ok'd a move to a cc-by-sa any license for all text on site, but the move never happened due to community opposition. I'd be happy if we revisited that to allow newer interested users to comment. See shared:Tech:License upgrade.
  2. Sometimes. Dealing with WP dumps would be a headache, but we'd also gain a lot in being able to mishmash together ready-made history sections from their site. We'd probably have to create a new policy page to figure out how to deal with dumped text, since for the most part we still will want original, travel-oriented writing.
  3. We follow WP's lead, since they will need to deal with that as well. My guess is that they'll play looser with the attribution requirement than we would (by, for example, declaring the page history to provide due attribution). In that case, we could do something like use a template at the bottom of the page, linking to the history of the appropriate WP article(s).
This is all purely moot, however, until/if we move to an updated CC license. Our current license has terrible incompatibility issues, which owe their origins to the fact that the CC 1.0 was basically CC's first draft, and which have been corrected in all later versions. As of now, our text license pretty much restricts us from cooperating with any other sites that use the CC-by-SA license. --Peter Talk 01:19, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, I saw that today too. With regards to #2, I think sections like history and climate would do well copied from WP (but only sections if it's too long). It might also help for lots of travel topics and phrasebooks (namely the usage/history & phonetics sections). For #3, is it possible to mess with the wiki software for this site to include a checkbox (like "this is a minor edit" & "Watch this page") labeled "Copied from Wikipedia" which would require the editor to insert the name/address of the WP article used and automatically place a link to the history of that WP page after the edit's listing on the WT article. The license at the bottom of the WT article could then include "Parts of this page may be the original work of contirbuters to the Wikipedia articles: [en.wikipedia.org/wikitravel Wikitravel], etc."? It sounds complicated, but it's the best method I can think of right now to solve the problem of attribution. AHeneen 01:24, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
The community opposition to the upgrade was quite minimal (only 2 users, though they repeated their arguments several times)... I don't think we were toooo far off from building a consensus to upgrade... it would just be nice to have a bit more legal input from someone in the know – cacahuate talk 14:33, 14 April 2009 (EDT)
I would certainly be one of the two who opposes an upgrade. No upgrade should or could be undertaken in just a matter of weeks or a few months. It would have to be a process that would be drawn out over at least a year to cover our asses in the legal issues. World 66, which I see has been taken offline, upgraded from the GNUFDL to CC by-SA 1.0 several years ago. In the process, they supposedly allowed any user who had ever contributed to World66, or whatever its predecessor's name was to opt-out and have all their previous content removed and all other content contributed by others was re-licensed. But, as the CC ShareAlike license ensures derivative work is also open source that means that derivative content produced with the content of the contributor who opts-out could be a possible source of legal messiness.
If this can or worms is going to be re-opened, I would want Internet Brands to conference call admins and other community members to allow a Q and A, because we will be fielding questions about a change over. Not to mention, I'd want to hear that I am protected from any legal issues and that IB would be the ones held responsible if some fiasco did arise.
That aside, I really don't see much benefit from a license "upgrade." First of all, the only real content that we are missing out on as a result of the CC-by-SA 1.0 license are a few maps, some photos, and historical information from WP and the like. That's not so bad, because a contributor could send an email to someone and simply ask a photographer to dual license a photo under CC-by-SA 1.0 and whatever other license the photographer wanted to use. Secondly, our content is still open source even with the CC-by-SA 1.0 license. Maybe it's not as "open" as I would like it to be or others would like it to be, but a whole other issues can be opened up if the community says: Hey, let's change the license from CC-by-SA 1.0, to include all CC-by-SA licenses like I did for Wikimmigrant. The problem that I have with Wikimmigrant is that the content on Wikimmigrant could be used by Wikitravel and anyone else who uses a CC-by-SA license (including 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0), but with a multi-licensed site, Wikimmigrant cannot take content from other sources even if the other content is licensed as CC-by-SA 3.0, because the other content has to be licensed under CC-by-SA 1.0, 2.0, 2.5, and 3.0 (possibly even later versions). All in all, I just think that an upgrade is not worth the hassle. We missed out on the 2.0 license years ago and that did not cause Wikitravel to fail. Be honest, but an upgrade is not so essential to Wikitravel. If it were, we wouldn't have amassed a collection of 20K+ articles, or been awarded a Webby, or named as one of Time's 50 Best Websites. -- Sapphire(Talk) • 23:50, 18 April 2009 (EDT)
Thanks for the legal advice, but you appear to be very confused on a number of these issues. Rather obvious among which is our ability to use images and other files with a different CC-by-SA license—we already do this. In any rate, you are commenting in the wrong place, if you wish to continue this discussion, please do so in the original thread. --Peter Talk 14:57, 19 April 2009 (EDT)
I think Sapphire is right on reusing content on Wikimmigrant, but that's because Wikimmigrant is multilicensed. A site that was singly-licensed CC-by-sa-3.0 wouldn't have that problem (because any CC license after 1.0 can be freely upgraded to a later version; not so going backwards). (Also, note Sapphire said "content"; images are a special case for a couple of reasons that I won't go into here.) LtPowers 15:58, 19 April 2009 (EDT)

→ Please continue discussion at shared:Tech:License upgrade

Site Down tonight, 4/15

We will be down for scheduled maintenance Wednesday April 15th @ 10pm PST for approximately 4 hours. We thank you for your patience. JuCo 20:08, 15 April 2009 (EDT)

Electrical plugs

Why don't we make little plug icons for the electrical outlets so everybody knows what kind of plug they need to bring when they look at a glance at the entire article? I don't think this move is at all unreasonable. --Destron Commander 23:04, 16 April 2009 (EDT)

Currently, each country has an Info Box which lists its electrical system, and a link to the fairly extensive Electrical systems page. Are you proposing that icons should be added next to these specifications in the Info Boxes for each country, or in a more general sense for all destinations? --Jtesla16 23:30, 16 April 2009 (EDT)
Yes, any destination we have provided info on electricity. I just think it's a good idea to give a little icon to give a heads up for prospective travellers. While there is a link to electrical systems article, some people might take too much time or not even able to figure out which plug to bring at all. --Destron Commander 22:58, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Star noms

I've nominated two D.C. districts for star status, in part just to end our drought of successful nominations, but also with the end goal of getting the whole city up to star status. I mention this here per Wikitravel:Star_nominations#Nominate. Comments always appreciated! --Peter Talk 16:55, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

And I've now nominated another, this time a new Chicago district. --Peter Talk 03:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)
And now another D.C. district—comments, even casual ones, are always very welcome. --Peter Talk 19:18, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
Last call on Anacostia & Shaw. Both are set to become stars tomorrow and the day after, respectively. Comments very welcome, even just to take a quick glance at the article and give a vote of support. --Peter Talk 18:56, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

And a new nomination for Copenhagen/Amager is up as well --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 09:59, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

GPS coordinates

As someone who always travels with a GPS unit, I would find it extremely useful if all important points (sights, pubs, train stations...) would have a GPS coordinates listed. Even in a city, it is often much easier to find something by its coordinates than by street. Would it be possible to start adding the coordinates? There should be some standard formatting and standard coordinate system to use... Kyknos 14:28, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

Many of our listings do include latitude and longitude, but they aren't displayed in the article. Do you have any suggestions on the most useful way to display them? LtPowers 14:43, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
Re: how to add coordinates, in any listing, you can add lat & long (* <see name="" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="" lat="" long=""></see>), and we also have a standard geo template: {{geo|lat|long}} (where you would replace the "lat" and "long" with actual numbers). --Peter Talk 14:48, 21 April 2009 (EDT)
I'd also suggest adding points of interest directly to OpenStreetMap, from where they can be reasonably easily reimported into Wikitravel maps. Jpatokal 03:48, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

Admin nomination

I've nominated User:Dguillaime to be an administrator — please comment on the nominations page. Gorilla Jones 01:20, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

Automated correction of impropper IsIn tags

I have been doing some searching and some corrections on IsIn tags on articles trying to get all the articles to have proper breadcrumb navigation. One of the most common mistakes I find is an incorrectly written tag. The most common mistake is having the tag written as "isIn", missing the capital "I" on is. First, is there reason for this? Second is there a way to have a bot or another automatic way to seek these out and fix them? It is quite tiring to do one at a time. Thanks Sirtrebuchet 01:56, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

What is the problem with the lowercase i? Doesn't WikiMedia automatically treat the first character in such expressions the same either way? --Peter Talk 01:58, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
I may have been hasty in condemning the lowercase "i". I don't know how mediawiki handles the first characters, but this glitch I am experiencing may simply have been due to the methods I am employing to detect faulty IsIn tags. So the consensuses is that mediawiki parses "isIn" exactly the same as "IsIn"? If so that would be good to know. Thanks. Sirtrebuchet 02:43, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
Yes, the first character of any page name (including templates) is case-insensitive, so "isIn" and "IsIn" are treated identically. Jpatokal 02:51, 30 April 2009 (EDT)
Great, Thanks for clearing that up! Sirtrebuchet 09:45, 30 April 2009 (EDT)

Why is this website written as if every tourist were white?

It is. You can't deny this; take a look at Germany#Stay safe and the section about Turks/Arabs. Also, I didn't know Russians were non-white, that's news to me (and offensive).

Not only this, my problem with this site is that none of it is sourced. Unlike Wikipedia, there seems to be no sourcing whatsoever. This is potentially critically important on a travel site where people may have printed off a document. One bit of vandalism to a route number and it could cause serious problems to people.--Clyde Cash 18:33, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

I am a complete mixture, I look kinda like Tiger Woods if I was to give an example of what I was like racially but taller, broader and more muscular; I was born to an African American-Mexican American father and a Russian-American mother and I have lived in Scotland for 8 years, and my girlfriend is British Chinese. Please don't assume things. I also have Asperger syndrome.--Clyde Cash 18:41, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
Well, since I can't deny this, I will have trouble responding to your point. But this website is actually written by some 50,000 people, so it must just be that we've succumbed to group think on a very large scale. More to the point though, if you see something that you think can be improved, plunge forward and fix it yourself!
Regarding sourcing, have you ever seen a travel guide that provided footnotes? We try to keep things fair, and the "proofing" mechanism that wikis provide (anyone can correct any error) is generally a lot more foolproof than trusting some drug dealer's second hand information. [2] --Peter Talk 18:57, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
The Stay Safe section of the Germany article certainly could use some editing. Would you be interested in giving it a shot, Clyde? LtPowers 19:03, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
Lest anyone be confused, Clyde is engaged in a silly bit of provocation that doesn't really warrant a response unless you're really bored — and in that event, stimulating alternatives such as alphabetizing your socks might still be preferable. Gorilla Jones 19:05, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
Couple comments to this. I'm trying to familiarize myself with Wikitravel. On the Buenos Aires page I thought there were sections that were irresponsibly written and I also thought sourcing might police the situation, though reading the Style differences note, I agree with the approach. I don't think this comment is not worth (limited) discussion though. I'm not sure how differences in reporting will play themselves out. As for me, I have taken LtPowers invitation to heart and tried to fix inconsistencies, contradictions and so on. Hopefully my efforts will be appreciated rather than annoy.--EKMSID 02:12, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Well, I can't say to speak for the whole of Germany, I've been there several times. I've also been to Romania and Bulgaria several times, and Finland as well. The problem is with sourcing. Wikipedia relies on accurate sources for every statement. This site, it has NONE of that. None whatsoever! It's bullshit if you believe people should go printing off articles and some person entering bullshit could make people change their route I mean WTF? That shit is not on.-Clyde Cash 19:40, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

We are not Wikipedia. Check out Wikitravel:Welcome, Wikipedians#Style differences, which explains how we are different. If you don't trust our travel guides without references, don't use them. Plenty of other people do. LtPowers 21:45, 1 May 2009 (EDT)

Admin action needed

Somebody is having fun on our expense moving lots pages. please stop this vandal. --Rein N. 09:14, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Blocked and reverted. Mediawiki's pretty good these days at reverting even attempted redirect loops... Jpatokal 09:24, 2 May 2009 (EDT)

Health/handicap section?

I'm a big wikitravel fan, but I was wondering if a section could be added for special health condition or handicap tips. Or should those just be integrated into normal discussion more? For example, my friend has a bum knee, and it's really helpful to him to know about cable cars he can take, or say, tall buildings with elevators he can take for the view rather than climbing churches. Or for my sister, who suffers from IBS (like having traveler's tummy all the time) and always wants to know if she's going to be trapped on a bus without a bathroom for hours, things like that. 99.141.66.187 01:11, 3 May 2009 (EDT)Heidi

Its a great ideal to have this information on Wikitravel. Typically, however, we don't make separate sections for particularly classes of travellers. All the information just goes into the appropriate part of the guide. Please plunge forward and add it. The where to stick it guide references some disabled information. However, if there is some precedent for itineraries and travel topics for classes of travellers, and I think a Seeing New York (city) by wheelchair would be a perfectly reasonable travel topic (or itinerary) --Inas 01:17, 3 May 2009 (EDT)


Cool, will do. -- Heidi
An access="" tag as part of listing would also be very useful, it could contain access difficulties, possibilities and tips. --inas 07:34, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Vandalism/sabotaging on the Lima page

Hi,

if you look at the recent history of the Lima page, one guy has been vandalising it repeatedly in an attempt to publicize his taxi company (akatori). Not only has he been adding links to it in wrong sections (like "get in by plane") but, much worse, he has been sabotaging other companies coordinates by subtly changing phone numbers and internet addresses. I wanted to nominate him for a ban, but he uses different ips every time (probably operating from peruvian internet cafes). Is it possible to semi-protect the page, and where should I ask for it? Thanks. --Nattfodd 05:16, 4 May 2009 (EDT)

There is a strong preference on Wikitravel that we handle this sort of problem with conventional means that anyone can use, that is, by simply watchlisting the page and reverting the unwanted edits. Thanks for keeping an eye on this particular problem; I'll add it to my watchlist too and try to chip in. --Peter Talk 05:49, 4 May 2009 (EDT)
But if this gets totally out of control (and it's not there yet), it's possible to add his company and its phone numbers to the Wikitravel:Local spam blacklist. Jpatokal 05:50, 4 May 2009 (EDT)
Ok, thanks for your replies. I will also keep it on my watchlist and try and revert stuff as soon as it happens. Let's hope the guy understands that his efforts are pointless. --Nattfodd 05:40, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

What does Wiki Travel use to Create the add listing popup forms?

Ive searched and searched for this and cannot find what it is that is used to make the really nice looking forms that appear when you click on an "add listing" link at the side. Is this something available as an extra for mediawiki or was it coded especially for wikitravel/Appreciate any help and im hoping that one of the admins know the answer —The preceding comment was added by 200.105.167.66 (talkcontribs) .

This was written specifically for wikitravel, primarily by me. KevinSours 17:45, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

Is there anywhere on Wikitravel for odd useful hints?

for example: "if you are in Japan in Golden Week and have no reservations, try a Toyoko-inn in a town which isn't in your guidebook". [Comment added by David Fremlin.]

It's case-by-case. Your example would go in Japan#Sleep. LtPowers 08:16, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, I've done that. [DHF]

No longer a lonely planet

Just wanted to gloat a bit: the Wikitravel Press guide to Chicago just beat Lonely Planet Chicago on Amazon's sales chart. (#5 #3 vs #6 as I type this, may have changed by the time you read this.) Congrats Peter and Gorilla! Jpatokal 10:52, 6 May 2009 (EDT)

Very nice! but charging a full 25% more than LP does at the moment, might be a bit optimistic no? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 10:59, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
Doesn't seem to be hurting sales. ;) And WT Chicago is 432 pages of meaty goodness, or 54% more than LP's measly 280! Jpatokal 11:21, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
Nothing but five-star reviews, either -- none of the other guides can claim that. LtPowers 13:52, 6 May 2009 (EDT)
Hate to say this...but it's now down to #13 vs. LP at #1. AHeneen 21:00, 8 May 2009 (EDT)
Party-pooper! But actually the list is updated every hour, which means that selling (or not selling) a single copy causes vast swings in the ranking. Jpatokal 00:09, 9 May 2009 (EDT)

Congrats - even though it's a little late. The Chicago guide is amazing. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 21:25, 11 May 2009 (EDT).

Travel News

Just a reminder to everyone to please help with updating the news. You don't even have to read lots of stories, simply spending a few minutes browsing headlines...you can spot ones which might affect travelers. You should read the news to begin with...it will give you a better understanding of the world and consequently better understand where you travel. Just spend 5-10 minutes browsing some news websites and then 5-10 min. adding some stories to Travel News (copy the new items before saving, then paste them to the main page). My favorites are: BBC News, France24, & Fox News. A few others that you might want to check out are: Reuters, CNN, Al Jazeera, & RIA Novosti. —The preceding comment was added by AHeneen (talkcontribs) .

Do &s in titles break pages?

I ask as I've noticed there is a merge candidate named Free wifi in Brighton & Hove but when I click on the link I get taken to "Free wifi in Brighton". I've tried a couple of things to get around this, and tried it in both Firefox and IE, but have found no way of getting to the real article. Is there a trick to this, or can an admin move the page, or does it need a more brute force method to get the page to be viewable? Nrms 23:56, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

Short answer is "yes", ampersands cause problems. Long answer is I remember coming across another article with the same problem but I don't remember if I was able to do anything about it. LtPowers 08:02, 11 May 2009 (EDT)
Okay, I was able to move the page (and its talk page) to Free wifi in Brighton and Hove. I deleted the original page and its talk page. The trick is, when you go to the delete page, the URL says "http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?action=delete&title=Free_wifi_in_Brighton". I had to change that to "http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?action=delete&title=Free_wifi_in_Brighton_%26_Hove", and it worked. Similar trick with the move operation. LtPowers 08:07, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

Smartphone apps

Hi. My name's Jon Evans. I'm planning to write a Google Android and (subsequently) an iPhone app that would allow people to easily add to WikiTravel directly from their smartphones - but obviously I don't want to reinvent the proverbial wheel. Do such apps already exist?

The advantages are hopefully obvious: people will be able to write about where they are, rather than relying on memory, and will very easily be able include both on-the-spot pictures and GPS coordinates. (Though it's easier to type on a computer than a smartphone, obviously, so I'm also planning to have a "remind me to write about this place later" feature.)

I'm a software engineer turned adventure traveller turned novelist (see my web site rezendi.com for far more than you ever wanted to know about me) doing this partly for fun, partly to shake the rust off my software skills.

Thanks for any advice/help. Rezendi 15:14, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

A few apps along these lines have been built, but I'm sure they could use your help! See Wikitravel talk:Offline Reader Expedition. Jpatokal 23:36, 12 May 2009 (EDT)

Editing of PD Photo

Is it OK to crop a photo which has been added from WP and is in the public domain? AHeneen 21:25, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

You can legally do absolutely anything you want with a PD file. --Peter Talk 21:36, 13 May 2009 (EDT)

Sleep template

A question was asked in the nl:pub about the Sleep template.

How can we use those templates in our wikitravel version? --Rein N. 06:14, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

Which template? --Peter Talk 09:58, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
The one that results in: * <sleep name="" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" checkin="" checkout="" price=""></sleep> and so on.--Rein N. 10:34, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
You mean the clickable links at the bottom of the edit window? You can import those to :nl by copying the content from MediaWiki:Edittools to nl:MediaWiki:Edittools. --Peter Talk 10:47, 14 May 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, --Rein N. 11:07, 14 May 2009 (EDT)

listings: examples of de-touting and summarizing

I just realized that to de-tout a larger percent of long and flowery listings I see in my watchlist, I would find very helpful to have a reference Wikitravel: page with a few examples for each of Eat/Sleep/Drink/Do of "before" and "after" de-touting by our gurus of de-touting and summarizing, ideally with a short explanation of why the resulting few words were decided as the best to describe the given establishment.

Anyone else interested in creating this kind of "how-to" page for would-be detouters? --DenisYurkin 15:18, 16 May 2009 (EDT)

I think that Wikitravel:Don't tout does a good job of explaining what we do and don't want, and points to other useful pages too. Getting a listing to read well and accurately describe the establishment is kind of a work of art, not so much a formula – cacahuate talk 21:39, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
I think an example or two could be helpful. Business owners/promoters often really do seem clueless as to how to write a proper hotel description for a travel guide, even after reading the policy. When they do censor themselves, the descriptions wind up just as useless. I'll try to save some "good ones" next time I clean up after my friends. --Peter Talk 22:00, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, Peter! Overall, I initially meant a guide to de-touting janitors like myself, but now I agree, for business owners it could be helpful as well. --DenisYurkin 03:42, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
There are a bunch of "detouts" in this dif [3]. Perhaps one of them might be a good example? I'll try to look for more. --Peter Talk 19:13, 24 May 2009 (EDT)
Here's another [4]. --Peter Talk 04:57, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

Out-of-date Warningboxes

Is it possible to get a list of all pages with warningboxes? It would be really helpful in keeping them up-to date. I found a couple that were several months past the time when they mattered. If not, maybe someone could create a bot to do this? AHeneen 21:15, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

I think you're looking for Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Warningbox. LtPowers 21:32, 20 May 2009 (EDT)
Thank You! AHeneen 02:07, 21 May 2009 (EDT)
I've gone through all of the links to edit, move, remove, or turn them into something else. The only one I didn't know what to do with was Bangkok/Khao San Road. Could someone familiar with the region please do something appropriate with the two unsightly warning boxes at the end? AHeneen 15:08, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Sharing pictures for use on Wikitravel

I've been making a few edits to the Wikitravel guide for Kyoto and I observed that the "Central Kyoto" section under "See" could use a few more pictures. I have some photographs that might fit the bill, but I'm a little protective of my personal travel album so I'm unwilling to release any of them in their original form under Wikitravel's prescribed licences. On the other hand, I'd be glad to release smaller, substantially resized versions (say, 800x600 or less) under the prescribed licences or even turn them loose into the public domain, provided I can keep full copyright over the original versions.

So here's the question: if I release reduced-size versions of my photographs under a CC-BY-SA compatible licence (or into the public domain) for use on Wikitravel - and with the full understanding that anyone can do anything with them in accordance with those licences - will I retain full copyright over the originals?

Many thanks. --Diego de Manila 02:34, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

If you are wary of reuse, i'd encourage you NOT to release anything to the public domain, but yes to other question - you only grant permission to reuse the said image, and you can clarify under the license section that you are only granting permission to reuse the low res version. There is an example here: http://wikitravel.org/shared/Image:Nenets_reindeer_sledge.jpg#Licensing
And thanks for info on my Kyoto Railway map btw, I'll try to get that updated soon. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 05:46, 21 May 2009 (EDT)
Thanks for the advice and the very helpful example. I'll think twice about releasing anything into the PD, but the prescribed licences now look like a viable option. --Diego de Manila 08:29, 21 May 2009 (EDT)
I'd still recommend you release the full-sized pictures (at least 3000x2000 or equiv), since 800x600 is too small to be used in print, and we'll just have to dike 'em out once the day comes for Wikitravel Press to create its Kyoto guide.
FWIW, I used to think the same way you did, and only uploaded dinky little 800x600 versions here. Then I realized there was no reason not to share (is your pic worth more gathering dust on a hard disk, or being shared with the whole world via WT?), CC-licensed my entire photo collection some 10+ years in the making, and am slowly and painfully upgrading my old pics here as I stumble into them. Jpatokal 09:18, 21 May 2009 (EDT)
I checked out your pictures and noticed it says copyright at the bottom and clicking on the "copyright" says: "All text, pictures and code contained within these pages and their subsidiary servers are copyright 1996-2003 Jani Patokallio. Personal use is generally OK but credit me for it, anything else requires permission. Link freely but only to addresses under iki.fi (see the tech notes for an explanation), otherwise the links can and will be broken." That doesn't say/resemble CC. AHeneen 20:55, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Spambots

Going through the recent changes and noticing that 9 of 10 new users are spambots, could we/IB add a captcha to the process of creating a new account? AHeneen 20:26, 21 May 2009 (EDT)

Good idea. Should be easy to do using either of these: Jpatokal 03:22, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ConfirmEdit
http://recaptcha.net/plugins/mediawiki/
Man, those bots are out of control. I've mailed IB about this. Jpatokal 06:19, 22 May 2009 (EDT)
I could see having a captcha for account creation, or if things got worse and worse maybe even for edits from unregistered accounts, but I'd hate to make the average registered user go through that for every single edit. Texugo 00:42, 10 June 2009 (EDT)
My intention was simply to add a captcha for new accounts. AHeneen 15:19, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel logout

Is it just me or does Wikitravel sometimes log you out, even right after an edit? edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 17:14, 22 May 2009 (EDT).

Isn't just you. Happens for me too. Weird. — Ravikiran 03:52, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Pointer to discussion

I posted a question last week at Wikitravel talk:Article templates#Talk on non-region/country articles. Would appreciate any input. LtPowers 10:21, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

Districting Edmonton problem - would love feedback

[5]

I was just wondering peoples opinions on the matter. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 16:02, 23 May 2009 (EDT).

Question

I know it's going to sound really weird but I think the site is a little more complicated than it looks. I have a really important question and have been reading every page I could. Finally decied to ask, and it's probably because of my poor tech skill, but could anybody please tell me how to post a question? Not by editing another one that already exists, but creating a new topic. It says at the bottom of the page, but I cannot find it. 81.214.7.120 06:26, 26 May 2009 (EDT)Banu81.214.7.120 06:26, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

Your best bet is to go to the top of a discussion page and click the "+" tab, right between "edit" and "history". =) LtPowers 09:17, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel maps question help

Hi there! I'm trying to make a map similar to Pittsburgh's road map by PerryPlanet for Portland (OR) but I have come to an obstacle. Maybe it's just a silly issue but i am very new to the program. Anyways Portland has an interesting river geography, with islands and everything. So I am using the Wikitravel template and tracing from OpenStreetMaps, and using water. Well the water has a darker layer around the edges, like turquoise-teal, which is fine, but I'm going around an island, and when they meet back up they're two different things now I suppose and there is a big line in what would be the middle of the river and it looks retarded. How do I fix this? edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 15:17, 26 May 2009 (EDT).

articles by region

Hi all, I would like to make a map of where all wikitravel articles are located based on region. e.g. what percentage of articles are about Asia, Europe, Africa etc. Is there any way to obtain this information?

Thanks very much!

09:48, 1 June 2009 (EDT)

I don't think there is such a way at the present time, but you might want to look at this discussion. --Peter Talk 16:40, 1 June 2009 (EDT)


Incomplete travel topics and itineraries

It is easy to think up a travel topic or itinerary. Four days hiking across XYZ park, country, city or continent. Make the article, put a template in, write a day or two, or a bit of info, and then put it down. Add it to travel topics, and then it languishes. Don't bother trying to post a VFD, because someone will object (quite rightfully) on the basis that if someone did some work with it it could become a very valid article. Only two problems, no one probably will, and therefore it probably won't. I can handle woefully incomplete destination guides. Someone will come along someday, and fill the info. Every place gets visited eventually. I fear that for itineraries and travel topics this won't ever be the case. Often it is easier to pick a new different topic name, then go back to work with an existing topic or template. Often it is a very small group of travellers who could even contemplate finishing the topic off. Often the approach to the topic is so off-the-wall it is difficult to update (1 month in Asia, but the itinerary only does two countries, and flies between them) I'm thinking of a namespace, or other location, for nursing fledgling travel topics or itineraries. This will encourage people or groups who create them to at least get them to be usable, before moving them to the main namespace, or linking them into articles, etc. If they fail, they fail, we accept it graciously and move on. Another option would be more of a presumption against travel topics that languish for months, years with bare bones information. --inas 02:45, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Here's my suggestion: itineraries should tagged for quality like other articles, and those that have been outline or below (read: not usable) can be deleted after (say) 1 year if no work is being done on them. Jpatokal 03:58, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
I like that idea. Additionally, we could write on the creator's talk page or email them to fix it or delete it. Will we eventually delete Visit United States in 30 days? Sorry, but it really stands out as ludicrous. Deletion has been brought up on its talk page and on the Vote for deletion page. AHeneen 04:32, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
The only reason I haven't closed that VfD is because I participated in the discussion. LtPowers 09:35, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
This should probably be moved to Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy. But I think Jani's suggestion is a perfect solution. Gorilla Jones 19:49, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
The initial discussion point wasn't about deletion. The approach to just delete stuff not up to scratch is one way of approaching this issue. I would have preferred a nursery approach, where we can try and make more of these articles initially, ensure they are named correctly, ensure that there aren't similar pieces of work that should be built on, or incorporated, and encourage more complete coverage before we make them mainstream. In effect, build a procedure for creating a new itinerary or travel topic. As I said, the destination articles will retrieve attention one day. Someone will go there, want to go there, or live there. There is no such guarantee with travel topics or itineraries. However if all that sounds too unrealistic, too much administration effort etc, and the consensus is just to make this part of the deletion process, it is better than nothing, I guess.. --inas 20:23, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
The nursery idea does sound too involved to me. I'm usually skeptical that stubby itineraries are ever going to be written after the initial contributor moves on. Ditto travel topics, although some can be general enough where they will develop organically. But a year is plenty time to judge in an objective fashion whether the article will likely languish forever, so I like Jani's idea. --Peter Talk 21:09, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Re: "nursery", the easiest approach would be to include a category in the itinerary-stub/outline templates and then link that in from Itineraries. Here's my first shot at an outlineitinerary template, complete with pink border to highlight impending doom and a displayed date of last revision -- what do you think?

This itinerary is an outline and needs more content. It has a template, but there is not enough information present for it to be of real use. It was last edited on 2009-07-20 and will be deleted if not modified for one year. Please plunge forward and rescue it!

Articles tagged with this are listed in Category:Outline itineraries. Jpatokal 22:10, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Looks good! --Peter Talk 22:39, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Will the automatic revision time/date work? How many articles go a year without being hit by some kind of random edit? Perhaps simply remaining an outline after a year is sufficient, rather than not being edited for a year? If is a fair break for an outline, don't you think? Also, I'd like to volunteer to write the article linked to under rescue it. I think there could be a better link there, than How to edit a page, but that is something we can change in due course.. --inas 22:47, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
So how about changing that to "...if not improved to usable or better within one year"? Unfortunately there's no creation timestamping, but if it really is obscure and deletion-worthy, it's unlikely to get changed much: spammers and vandals target high-traffic articles, and cleanup/interwiki bots do nothing if there's nothing to cleanup/link to. Jpatokal 06:14, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
A person adding a vfd is motivated enough to manually set a final date after which the article should be deleted if not improved. When a final date arrive, a person considering to implement a deletion can manually check whether there were any substantial changes. Therefore it can work without any automation or extra programming. --DenisYurkin 15:42, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

On a related note: how about travel topics around specific destinations? To repeat my question from Talk:Travelling with children:

I wonder if this draft can become a separate article just as it is right now--and hopefully its growth will benefit from being well-focused, instead of being "spread thin" over Barcelona article. Opinions?

--DenisYurkin 13:17, 4 June 2009 (EDT)

My opinion is that a travel topic related to a specific destination should begin life within the destination article. There should be a section With children, within the Barcelona article, probably a subsection of Do. This goes back to my nursery philosophy. Only when it has outgrown its parent article, with rich content, should it be split off. This gives it he best chance to develop. The same should essentially apply to itineraries within regions. They should develop within the region article, and then when they can justify it they should be split off. Really, there is not much content there right now, an it would benefit more from being in the much visited Barcelona article, then split off somewhere. --inas 01:22, 5 June 2009 (EDT)
Thanks, I've followed the advice. --DenisYurkin 17:15, 6 June 2009 (EDT)

Back to the original proposal, my only objection is: please don't treat itineraries and travel topics as synonyms, they are quite different. I support that itineraries should be managed differently than today; but I am not sure for travel topics. Similarly to destination articles, "Doing X in the region Y" or "What is Activity X and what are world's best places to experience it" will find more contributors some day (of course provided that a topic is somewhat popular, which is the case for most topics I've seen here so far). --DenisYurkin 17:15, 6 June 2009 (EDT)

I agree that we should limit this experiment to itineraries only. Jpatokal 06:14, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
Or possibly travel topics that are itinerary-esque - if that makes sense. Particular activity in Particular destination. --inas 21:45, 8 June 2009 (EDT)

Someone added advertising to 10 articles; also, is there an easy way to undo all edits by that user?

Hi. User 71.55.2.76 added advertising for a certain bus service, full of ad-copy-like words, to about 10 different articles. Could someone please remove it? Also, for future reference, is there any way to undo one edit by that user, or better yet, all edits made by that user, with only a few clicks? Cheers, Unforgettableid 17:22, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Admins can do a one-click rollback, but it still takes one click per article. LtPowers 18:47, 3 June 2009 (EDT)
Oh, and it can only be done if there haven't been any other edits since. These edits you linked were in January, so there's no way to do it except manually. LtPowers 18:49, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

wiki collections

There is an extension available to this wiki that would let people create collections of their favorite pages and then they could even make their own travel book. This would be a great feature for the site. You can read about it here: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Collection

Thanks for the great site. I appreciate the work you guys have done. I help run a much smaller site called wiki.mobileread.com --DaleDe 18:35, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Yes, at Wikitravel Press we're already discussing this with the friendly folks at PediaPress. However, Wikitravel's extensions (eg. listings) would require customization of the normal PediaPress engine and they have their hands full with Wikipedia at the moment, so this is still some ways off. Jpatokal 21:56, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Before sweeping the pub...

I was about to sweep the Pub, but it seems there are many good topics brought up which haven't received comment and/or 1-2 comments were made, but it doesn't appear that any action was taken. I realize that it might take a while, but would some of you mind reading through all the old posts in the Pub & adding your comments or doing something. I'd hate to see good ideas get thrown in the archive and forgotten. AHeneen 21:40, 3 June 2009 (EDT)

Neighbourhoods section?

Often times in cities, a neighbourhood doesn't have anything specific, whether that be a retail strip, a museum, or a tourist trap, but it's still a neat area to look around. Portland has descriptions for many neighbourhoods. I made it a seperate section. What do you guys think? Is it useful to have on it's own? Calgary would be another good example. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 18:27, 5 June 2009 (EDT).

Or should it be an "orientation" subsection of understand? – cacahuate talk 21:58, 5 June 2009 (EDT)
Or of "Get around"? LtPowers 10:43, 6 June 2009 (EDT)
Much of it really is saying what there is to do or see there, even if it is just a bunch of old houses. If people aren't interested in old houses, then they probably won't to go there. The info there could easily be placed under the relevant sections. However, I take the point that it reads well as an introduction to the city as well. If you want to keep it reading like that I agree with Cacahuate --inas 21:52, 8 June 2009 (EDT)
I've seen them both in Get around and Understand. I'm guessing I should just put it into their desired sections. edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 19:20, 9 June 2009 (EDT).
I think the important thing to ask is why it is a neat area to look around. Is it because it's pretty? Then put it in "See". Is it because there are a lot of neat little shops that aren't worth full listings individually? Then put it in "Buy". That sort of thing. If you want to describe all of the neighborhoods and how they're related to each other, then it should go in "Understand" or "Get around". LtPowers 08:41, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

The handle's made of Spanish oak with anti-jinx varnish and in-built vibration controls

Am I the only one who can't help thinking of this whenever some spammer tells us their hotel has "nice staffs" ? Jpatokal 08:04, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Draco/Harry slash fiction? Can't say it ever occurred to me. LtPowers 12:42, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

Image question

I found this file on Flickr and uploaded it to Wikimedia Commons for possible use here. My question is, if I shrink it down enough so as to make the people in the picture unrecognizable, is it usable here? LtPowers 16:49, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

I think it's fine. It would be a stretch to identify any of these people, and they're not the principal subject of the photo (which is the most important part of that policy, IMO). If you want to go a little further, you could add a little extra blur over the faces, using Gimp, Photoshop, or whatever floats your boat. --Peter Talk 21:10, 12 June 2009 (EDT)
In the preview version, I'd say it's fine. If you look at the full resolution version, the people in the yellow car are quite clear. If you don't use that full-size version here, it shouldn't be a problem — or you could add a slight blur on the people up front as Peter suggested. Some people are already blurred by the light exposure. Gorilla Jones 21:48, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

Rincon Puerto Rico Article

I notice that the article for Rincón, Puerto Rico page requires a large amount of sidescroll to the right in order to view the entire article. I suspect it is because of the template layout and the photos placed on the right hand side of the article.

I am not too familiar with templates and layout style and was wondering if someone could look at the Rincón article and possible suggest how to make it more visually appealing.

Thanks

TomNativenewYorker 12:58, 13 June 2009 (EDT)

It's fixed now. One of the 'Sleep' listings had a missing '*' at the beginning. Gorilla Jones 13:02, 13 June 2009 (EDT)
Thanks for the quick fix and response.TomNativenewYorker 13:06, 13 June 2009 (EDT)

Request for a new regular section

A section could be added to support longer-term stay in a place: Get a Job. It could suggest typical short-term work possibilities for foreigners in the region (: At least, if somebody has done that, they should be encouraged to share with one sentence what kind of job they got and how. --Sigmundur 06:51, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

The "Work" section covers that sort of thing, where it's relevant. Personal experiences should go on Wikitravel Extra. LtPowers 09:05, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

Patrolled

I notice in article page logs that edits have been marked as 'patrolled' by various admins. I looked all over but I cant seem to find an explanation. Can someone explain the purpose for me? Thanks TomNativenewYorker 13:37, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel:Recent changes patrol --Peter Talk 13:39, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
I searched for hours and couldnt find that article.ThanxTomNativenewYorker 14:22, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, it seems like there are not enough links pointing towards it (there wasn't even a link at Wikitravel:Namespace index!). I'm not sure what other pages there are that should have links to it—maybe someone else can think of some. --Peter Talk 14:41, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
In the hopes of catching the most likely search term, I added a redirect from Patrol. - Dguillaime 14:59, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Syntax checks

I have found many articles with syntax errors. Sometimes it is just "http" missing in an URL, sometimes it is more tricky. I have split the errors in different categories and uploaded them here so that the whole community can fix them (there are thousands). Thanks everyone, let's make Wikitravel an even better travel guide! Nicolas1981 03:45, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

I've fixed many hundred of the missing http over the past week. The absence of a name doesn't always seem to indicate an invalid listing, although 99/100 it is just totally blank xml. Once we get through this initial batch of formatting old articles (I estimate I can finish the majority in a week or so) it should just be a matter of checking recent changes every week. --inas 07:29, 17 June 2009 (EDT)
Nice to meet you fellow wiki checker :-) Your script has a very impressive features list! Do you post the output somewhere, or do you fix all of the errors by yourself? I maintain the ASE checker on Wikipedia, and it belongs to a very convenient category called "Active Wiki Fixup Projects". Is there such a category on Wikitravel? If not, how to publicize such tools? My tool on Wikipedia is successful because many people have found it and spend many hours fixing the errors (I wouldn't have time to process such a huge backlog, thousands of articles requiring case-by-case analysis). My Wikitravel checks have found about 10000 things to fix. Inas, where can we publicize our projects so that volunteers can come and fix what our scripts have found? Cheers Nicolas1981 01:40, 19 June 2009 (EDT)
Nice to meet you also. I think I have fixed over 250 of these errors today, and I think just about all of the http malformed url's should be fixed, as these are very simple form of error (but annoying to users, because they break).
I have to confess that I'm not really a wiki checker though. Around a week or so ago, we were discussing adding a few phases that touts always used when adding hotel listings to a blacklist, and I was amazed with just about three phrases I managed to de-tout around 150 articles using a simple substitution pattern. It seems hotel touts are anything but original in their expression. Since then, I've got a bit obsessed, and went through another 100 articles, found errors in them, and then added them also as substitution patterns, with a bit of extra logic added here and there, to work around errors, and to detect when expressions such as "most luxurious" are being used in a listing, and when they are being used in summary of the city. I just happened to also add a few patterns to postlink, fix the http thing, a few currency things, a few phone number things, and remove external links that we know to be bad, and probably a few things I have forgotten now, and then for some stupid reason I decided to run it over all the articles, by hand. Not sure why I decided to do that. I have a prelim check that makes sure the article has something significant that needs fixing before I fix it, so I don't waste time on articles that don't.
Even simple things like postlinking, are hard to let run automatically. Some people repeat the URL, some put "click here", both of which can be removed, but others a noun, which has to be preserved. I've got common phrases done, but I don't think I could ever get every exception.
As far as groups to publicise our projects, this is it I'm afraid. We could launch a wikichecking expedition, but I doubt we would get many too enthusiastic followers, most people are off doing stuff in various areas, and Wikitravel is quite small.
The upside is that the amount of content here is much less than WP, and there are people here who spend time patrolling who I'm sure would be open to a bit of assistance in keeping a handle on errors and touts, so that things don't slip through the cracks, and the quality of the articles improves. There may be support for robots to accomplish simple tasks like fixing up url syntax, common and definitive spelling errors, and either lists of suspicious articles, or auto-reversions of suspicious edits.
Meanwhile, I'm happy to say that think your list is now out of date. I'm happy to post my patterns and logic if you are interested. If you are going to run your script again, if I could suggest that you add a link to open the page for edit, it saves a click or two.. --inas 02:35, 19 June 2009 (EDT)
There are 40438 errors to fix. Minus the ones you corrected last week, it must be something like 39438 errors remaining. That's too much for one person but it can be achieved by a community. This is a wiki: everyone's contributions add up to form a great result. I am sure many people, when not traveling, would be happy to help fixing articles about exotic places, if provided with clear instructions and a list. Nicolas1981 00:09, 21 June 2009 (EDT)
By all means. Wikitravel has Wikitravel:Expeditions, which you can start, solicit comment, and even store the output of scans within that namespace. I'm happy to help you, if you would like to do that. Although you have found around 40,000 errors, there are probably only around 3000 or so articles in Wikitravel that are ready for polishing. Any others are more desperate for organisation and content than anything else. For example, a missing ispartof/isin may just be due to an omission to a well defined region, in which case adding it to an article takes a few seconds. However if the region is poorly defined than it is much more involved, and is more about the regioning expedition than it is about syntactic checking. As you say, however, if there are people who wish to join in the effort, many hands.. --inas 00:21, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
I think I have covered all of the UK destinations, from Aberarth to Zennor, in the no-ispartof-nor-isin list. So that is about another 100 errors corrected! Tarr3n 12:01, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
Great, thanks a lot ! It is a good practice to remove entries you have processed. Cheers Nicolas1981 01:18, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
I've gone through the name missing list from A-D.
  1. A missing name is not an error. A better test may be if there are no descriptions in the xml as well as no name. This effects around 50% of those article listed
  2. Travel topics, itineraries, or phrasebooks do not and should not have ispartof information. The check should report as errors those that do.
  3. Top level continents do not and should not have ispartof information.

--inas 00:08, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Category/Sub-Category

If an article has a 'to do' category it will have an 'edit' and a 'add listing' radio button. When someone clicks the 'add listing' button a pop-up window opens up with various fields for information.

Now, if I were to create a sub category for 'casinos', the sub section will only have an an 'edit' but not the 'add listing' radio button.

If I select the 'add listing' radio button on the 'to do' category for a casino, it will incorrectly place the casino in the main category instead of the casinos sub-category.

I know this information can be moved with cut/paste action but a sub-category "add listing' radio button would be so much more convenient especially for making numerous listings.

Is there a way to format the sub-category so it will have a 'add listing' radio button of its own. Thanks TomNativenewYorker 10:11, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Not sure about that, but I should let you know that when you click "edit" and the edit window comes up, there are templates at the bottom to choose from (attractions, activities, shops, etc). Essentially what "add listing" does is add one of those templates to the end of the category. AHeneen 14:12, 17 June 2009 (EDT)
I understand about the templates at the bottom of the page as well. I was just wondering if it is possible to format a sub-category section so that the 'add listing' pop-up window will show. If making numerous entries to a sub-category, the pop-up window would make editing quicker and easier than having to repeatedly copy/paste those templates.TomNativenewYorker 17:58, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Article categorization

84.3.178.191 has seen fit to start creating and filling out categories for us. I advised him or her that it would be best to wait for a consensus before starting such a large project. We'll have to decide what to do with the changes already made. LtPowers 13:03, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

... or, Jani could just speedy delete them... LtPowers 13:08, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

Honshu needs disambiguation?

My scripts just came across Honshu, which is a disambiguation page, even though Honshu is not an ambiguous word. According to my scripts, it is the only occurrence of this kind of situation on a big area. I think it should be an article, like it was some time ago, see the history. This article is probably seen by many people: via the breadcrumb navigation, most Japan articles have a link to it. What do you think? Cheers Nicolas1981 04:16, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

First of all, I think the Japan#Regions section should be much clearer that five of the regions are on one island, while the other main islands have only one region. As for the Honshu article itself, it should either be made a top-level region of Japan or made simply a redirect to the Japan article. I suppose a third option could be to make it a pseudo-regional article that isn't technically in the hierarchy, like Great Lakes. LtPowers 09:40, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
That's the way it was before, but another user objected that it was confusing. And I think he was right: since Honshu covers the vast majority of Japan's population, main cities and sights, I don't see a need to artificially insert it into the hierarchy, just like we don't have a "Continental" division for US divisions outside AK/HI. Jpatokal 11:58, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
'Continental' isn't in the US breadcrumb trail, though, while Honshu is. I'd support taking Honshu out of the Japan trail, so that the region hierarchy agrees with the breadcrumb trail. Gorilla Jones 17:56, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
Done. Jpatokal 22:38, 22 June 2009 (EDT)
I agree with Gorilla Jones. Thanks Jpatokal! 123.230.9.151 01:20, 23 June 2009 (EDT) Forgot to login as usual Nicolas1981 01:22, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Okay, that's done, but Honshu is still listed as a disambiguation page. What should we do with that article? LtPowers 09:56, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Nothing, it's fine as it is. Jpatokal 12:45, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
As Nicolas pointed out, there's nothing ambiguous about the word "Honshu". LtPowers 14:36, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
The naming is stupid, but ambiguity is in fact not required for disambiguation: "Some geographical names can refer to several Wikitravel articles, but not one of their own." See Wikitravel:Disambiguation pages. Jpatokal 21:15, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Migrating Wikitravel to CC by-sa 3.0

Just a heads-up: as of yesterday, June 15, Wikipedia has relicensed (almost) all of their content under CC by-sa 3.0. Details here. Jpatokal 03:36, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

→ discussion at shared:Tech:License upgrade - --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 12:05, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

We're getting pretty close to a consensus that, yes, it's time to do this. See shared:License upgrade for a first draft of how this will be done, and shared:Talk:License upgrade for discussion. Jpatokal 22:35, 22 June 2009 (EDT)

Question about article placement

Hello all...I'm interested in contributing some articles about car parking options that are available at various UK airports, with details on security features, types of vehicles allowed, distances from the airport terminal, etc, which I think would be helpful to air travellers.

I submitted a couple on Wikipedia, but was advised that they might be more welcome here. So, to make sure I'm going about this correctly (since it takes me a while to get these articles together...ha!), I wanted to ask for advice on "where to stick them". Should there be a general category of "Airport car parks" or should my articles be listed under an existing airport's page (if one exists)?

Any advice is most welcome...thanks!

Stefanchou 07:54, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Articles on Wikitravel are structured pretty differently from Wikipedia; see Wikitravel:What is an article?. Basically, information about airport car parks belongs wherever the airport belongs: a few huge ones have standalone articles (Heathrow Airport), most don't and are just in the main town article (Glasgow#By plane). Jpatokal 09:11, 23 June 2009 (EDT)

Notability

I think many of you will understand Wikipedia's notability concept. Although this is a different site with different policies, how small and/or insignificant can a place be to have its own entry in Wikitravel? What's your policy on original research?--ChrisChanSonichu 20:37, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

See Wikitravel:What is an article. We don't have an article for every crossroads. Can you sleep there is one test, designed to eliminate places that are really attractions rather than destinations. Experiences of travellers and locals is encouraged, as long as they are fair. --inas 22:04, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
See also Wikitravel:Welcome, Wikipedians for a capsule summary of the (many) ways we're different from WP. Jpatokal 22:25, 24 June 2009 (EDT)
And original research is the backbone of travel writing. I wish more contributors would do some good research! --Peter Talk 23:52, 24 June 2009 (EDT)

New Skype Style

What's up with this new skype style listings? I liked the old way. --71.254.108.245 15:51, 25 June 2009 (EDT)

"Skype style"...!? Jpatokal 08:32, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
What i ment to say is the listings are in a skype type of a style. Some listings i can't even read the phone number. Like example on sleep some of the phone numbers are hidden. --71.254.108.245 12:45, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
Can you give us an example? LtPowers 13:03, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
I would love to maybe this will clear things up... +1 877 627-2525 , Thank You --71.254.108.245 13:12, 26 June 2009 (EDT) whats it all about? when was the change over?
It has nothing to do with us, it's a Skype plugin for Firefox. It's a cool idea, but doesn't always work so well. I'm sure you can turn it off either in Skype or Firefox – cacahuate talk 14:44, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
Oh wow, I don't know how you figured that out, but man was I confused. LtPowers 16:20, 26 June 2009 (EDT)
Because I asked the same question a couple years ago when I saw it in an internet cafe in India.... and was met with similar confusion :) – cacahuate talk 14:42, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

OxygenGuide

You can now download Wikitravel's content for offline navigation: OxygenGuide. It is an open source project, and the guide is obviously as free as Wikitravel. I did not want to call it "OfflineWikitravel" because of possible trademark issues. The HTML is simplified for navigation on small devices, and there are no images to make it as light as oxygen. Please let me know what you think! Cheers Nicolas1981 19:43, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Entry added Nicolas1981 11:38, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
  • The OxygenGuide page says "Content license: Creative Commons 3.0 BY-SA". I agree that's what it should be, but I think WT is actually still stuck at 1.0, so unfortunately OG must use that. You cannot change the license, See discussion and links from there. Pashley 21:31, 28 June 2009 (EDT)
Thanks for pointing this out! Fixed. Nicolas1981 11:38, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Get this working on the iPhone/iPod touch and you'll be my hero! ;) --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 05:34, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Anyone in Tokyo willing to lend me an iPhone during a weekend? ;-) I guess the iPhone has a Web browser, right? Can it browse locally stored pages, and navigate through links to other pages? Just try to download the index.html and the Africa.html article on your iPhone's disk or memory card, and let me know if you can navigate from the index to Africa by clicking on the link. (such a basic thing does not work on Android, for security reasons they say...) Nicolas1981 11:38, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
It does have a browser, but I don't believe can browse offline content. I just tried to download the file from my iphone and got an error "safari cannot download file". What really needs to happen is for a specific application to be built for the iphone that stores the site locally, and updates daily (or possibly have adjustable settings for this). There are a couple already that make use of our info, but none that are particularly great yet – cacahuate talk 14:50, 29 June 2009 (EDT)

Rather large copyvio

There are plenty of sites that reuse our content, and very few of them do it accordingly to the license, but Writing Travellers is a level of fraud unto itself. They're apparently planning to do printed guidebooks, and have unilaterally relicensed all of our stuff as CC-by-sa 3.0. Gorilla Jones 18:33, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

Well, for those writing competing guides, whose attribution and other rights are being violated... $$$ ;) --Peter Talk 19:09, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
It looks like it's a user-edited site. Kurashiki definitely has content copied from us, but it's not clear how widespread that is. Their terms of use say "In the unlucky event of a violation it will immediately remove that content and it will hold the user who put the copyright protected material in the WritingTravellers Project fully responsible for this violation." I say test their word and drop them a line about the Kurashiki content and see if they remove it. LtPowers 22:33, 3 July 2009 (EDT)
I notice they are using By foot, and not On foot.
Much of the work seems attributed to wikitravel. They are using CC-BY-SA 3.0, but we may well be as well be too in a month or so. Why would we want them to remove the content? --inas 00:56, 4 July 2009 (EDT)
Where did you see the attribution? --Peter Talk 01:33, 4 July 2009 (EDT)
Who's Wikitravel? I didn't realize that Wikitravel wrote or created anything. (Have a look at How to re-use Wikitravel guides.) I sent them an email. Gorilla Jones 10:31, 4 July 2009 (EDT)
Group attribution is allowed under CC-by-sa 3.0, which the site seems to think we are using, but not under 1.0. So as to that end, they might not know they are breaking any rules - but I don't see WT being attributed anywhere either. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 12:18, 4 July 2009 (EDT)
Ah, I didn't know that about 3.0. (Because we're not 3.0, and won't be for a few months at earliest.) If you click on the name of an individual listing, you're taken to a page which says the text was "partly" taken from Wikitravel. Gorilla Jones 12:27, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

New Star Nomination - Disney's Hollywood Studios

I've nominated Walt Disney World/Hollywood Studios for star status. Please review and leave your comments, as this is the first big step towards getting the entire Walt Disney World set of articles up to full professional travel-guide-type status. LtPowers 17:06, 5 July 2009 (EDT)

I've made some updates to the article after feedback; please re-review. =) LtPowers 08:24, 11 July 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel Conference

Wikipedia has an annual conference. Has anyone thought of having a Wikitravel Conference? Collaborative efforts round the table to upgrade weak pages...training in mapmaking, etc. etc.Shep 03:11, 6 July 2009 (EDT)

While I'd love the concept of a get-together (If I actually had the money to anywhere at the moment), I think a conference might be pushing it a bit. Especially since the number of regular users engaging in the running/policing/etc of the site, and not just adding the odd piece of content, hovers around some 50 people for the site as a whole, and are spread all over the world. I'd love to meet some IB people in real life though :). --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 20:32, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
Although it would definitely be awesome to say "let's all go to Addis Ababa and make it a star article, I have to agree that there aren't enough people (especially those with enough money) to do that. The closest Wikitravel has is the Collaboration of the month, and the current collaboration could use more contributors! If you know anything about the city or are willing to do a little research, please do! You can also nominate cities for future collaborations. ChubbyWimbus 20:48, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
Actually, Wikitravel has already had a couple of get-togethers, see shared:Get-together for the list. Feel free to propose another, IB has already hinted that they would be willing to sponsor it a bit. Jpatokal 22:39, 7 July 2009 (EDT)
We've already got about half as many people in Chicago as we'd need to have a "get-together." Just throwing that out there ;) --Peter Talk 23:18, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

Risk of losing all our work?

I'm really sorry if this is a FAQ but I did look around and found only a few open tech requests on wikitravel shared...

I see that the wikitravel site is supported by a company who (as I understand it) make their money publishing printed copies of wikitravel information. I wholeheartedly applaud the way the site seems to be run in a very open way with the CC-SA licence, even though that means they might lose business. I don't expect them to make it easy for other people to download wikitravel in its entirely (using their bandwidth), but I do worry that if something happens to them or (no offence, just speculating) they had a change of policy, the site might go down and all this CC-SA content would be lost, without any option for anyone else to take bits or even re-host the whole site. Even though legally all the content is reproducible it's no good if no one can download it. Does anyone know if there are mirrors, covenants about snapshots being available if (say) they go bust or ability for interested people to download a snapshot of the entire site, just as a safeguard?--Zorn 19:24, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel Press doesn't host the site. Internet Brands do, so the risk lies there.
There are some mirrors of sorts - see Wikitravel:mirrors, and I imagine some others have private copies of the data, but there is no full database export facility provided. You can download the data in its entirety using their bandwidth, just adhere to the terms of use, and don't overload the site. There are also other sites like Wikivoyage who have previously hinted that they would welcome wikitravellers, and may be well placed to step in. It is a risk, sure. If the site went off-air tomorrow, and Internet Brands had its assets seized, it is difficult to see where wikitravellers could regroup, and it would be a real setback for the project. I don't believe the content would be completely lost, however. --inas 20:20, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

OpenID not working??

Right now when I try to log in with OpenID, it lets me choose what my wiki username will be, but after submitting that, I'm presented with an error that says I searched for ChooseName, which could not be found. Of course I didn't do any such thing. This happens both if I choose the option where it makes a username for me based on my OpenID, and if I choose the option to pick my own.

Can someone please fix this? It doesn't make sense to provide the option of logging in with OpenID and then not have that option work. I want to make edits to WT but am prevented from doing so. Is anyone else able to replicate and/or fix this? --124.168.43.211 06:23, 22 May 2009 (EDT)


Hellooo? Anybody? (edit: I've moved my question to the bottom of the page so it'll be noticed.) I'd prefer to use OpenID to login rather than creating a new account. Why isn't it working?? I am guessing the reason nobody has replied so far is because I wrote this near the top of the page. 124.168.82.105 23:27, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

Partly it's because nobody has any idea, and partly because you're in the wrong place: please file a bug here. Please include the exact error message you're getting and as much detail as possible (what OpenID provider you're using etc). Jpatokal 00:49, 9 July 2009 (EDT)

Olympics articles

Do you think Olympic cities should have a banner like the FIFA Cup cities (see Durban for an example) to encourage people to contribute and view Wikitravel's Olympic pages, like Vancouver 2010. I was reviewing the Vancouver page to see if it could be a CotM, and I wondered why FIFA is given such fanfare with a snazzy banner but not the Olympics. ChubbyWimbus 21:44, 13 July 2009 (EDT)

Sure, you can create a template and add it to relevant pages. I think we just need to enshrine in policy that these are always temporary and will be nuked once the event ends. Jpatokal 01:09, 14 July 2009 (EDT)
Yes, there had been a (very poor quality) article on the 2008 games. I think part of the reason may be in the fact that the Olympics are held in one city (and maybe a nearby city for 1-2 events), whereas the FIFA World Cup is spread over several cities. Same thing happened with Euro2008. AHeneen 01:48, 14 July 2009 (EDT)

Wikitravel on Android, with OxygenGuide

If you are lucky enough to have an Android cellphone or netbook, you can have Wikitravel in your pocket (without images and with minimalistic style). Get it here.

It works but it is a very early version, please reports bugs on the tracker. More Android developers are needed to create a nice application with search, bookmarks, history (or find an existing open source application or framework that allows local web browsing). More Python developers are needed to fix OxygenGuide content bugs. Thanks a lot! Nicolas1981 09:39, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Listing Eat/Drink/Sleep

Hi, I'm currently working on improving the Tel Aviv Article and It's pretty straightforward on stuff like Do and See, but when I come to the Eat/Sleep/Drink sections I have a problem. Tel Aviv has hundreds of restaurants, cafes, pubs, hotels, motels, etc. I'm not affiliated with any business so I find it really hard to decide which ones to mention, especially since they change almost every day. Would appreciate your help for some guidelines or past experience with problems like that in other big metropolitan cities. Arik Galansky 13:45, 17 July 2009 (EDT)

Easy -- pick your own favorites, especially if they've been around for a while and aren't going anywhere. Jpatokal 03:39, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
If all else fails, you could speak in general terms, such as "There's a row of small, fly-by-night falafel stands near Main and Broadway that make a good late-night stop." Or speak about the strength of various neighborhoods in certain kinds of cuisine, like Chicago/Hyde Park#Eat mentions Thai Row without needing to do full listings for each and every restaurant there. Gorilla Jones 11:36, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

Limo listings

Recently I've been noticing a lot of listings for limo rental companies being added to Wikitravel articles. I'm unsure what our policy on these are. I suppose one could argue they are essentially car rental companies, and thus should be allowed here, but I'm leaning on the side of removing them, since renting a limo is something only a certain set of people can do and limo renting strikes me as something you're more likely to do when you're, say, getting married, not while traveling. Then again, I'm too poor to ever hope to see the inside of a limo, so perhaps I'm just being bigoted. Is there a policy on this someone can point me to? PerryPlanet Talk 12:06, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

We get some worrisome spam in this category, and it's very difficult to check whether a "limo service" is at all legitimate or desirable here. There was a guy adding himself to articles throughout the Amalfi Coast for a while, and I've seen that in other places too. (Maybe I should offer my own limo services from Midway into downtown...) The few discussions I'm finding on this topic (Talk:New_York_City#Limo_rentals & at Talk:Rome) decided in favor of removing limo sections altogether. --Peter Talk 15:11, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
There are occasions in which it may be cheaper to hire (say) a town car for a particular trip than a taxi. Even if a limousine is overkill, those companies sometimes have town cars and the like available for a fee not far removed from a cab. But I also don't think we should get in the habit of listing every limo company in an area. LtPowers 22:16, 18 July 2009 (EDT)

Vancouver districts and Vancouver 2010 page

I'm proposing to split Vancouver's City Center district into three. If you have any thoughts or want to comment, please drop by the talk page.

I'd also like to get people's thoughts on the Vancouver 2010 page. Olympics articles are something we haven't done too well in the past and I'd like to change it for 2010. Not sure what to do with it at this point, any thoughts are welcome. Shaund 02:10, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

An article on Vancouver during the olympics sounds like a good idea, we dont have to repeat everything thats nicely written in the Vancouver article i.e. how to fly in but focus on such things that are specific to the olympics: i.e. How to get to the bobsleigh-track, and where it is-probably far off from Vancouver in the mountains somewhere. /Johan Jönsson 11:16, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

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