Difference between revisions of "Wikitravel:Travellers' pub"

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The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
 
The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
  
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
  
{{disclaimerbox|If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to that article.
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{{disclaimerbox|*If you have a question or suggestion about a ''particular'' article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to ''that'' article.
  
If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/ Mediawiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
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*If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [https://mediawiki.org/ MediaWiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
  
If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.
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*If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.}}
 
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}}
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<big>'''Please sweep the pub'''</big>
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Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it will get too noisy and hard to read. If you see an old conversation (i.e. '''three months''' after the last comment in that discussion) that could or should be moved to a [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|talk page]], please do so, and note there that it has been swept in from the pub.
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* A question regarding a destination article should be swept to the article discussion page
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* A discussion regarding a policy or the subject of an expedition can be swept to the policy or expedition discussion page
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* A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question.
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* A pointer to a discussion going on elsewhere, such as a notice of a star nomination or or a request to comment on another talk page, can be removed when it is two months old.  Any discussion that occurred in the pub can be swept to to where the main discussion took place.
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Any discussions that do not fall into any of these categories, and are not of any special importance for posterity, should be archived to '''[[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives]]''' and removed from here. If you are not sure where to put a discussion, let it be—better to spend your efforts on those that you do know where to place.
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{{WikitravelDoc|collaboration}}
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[[ca:Wikitravel:Bar dels viatgers]]
 
[[ca:Wikitravel:Bar dels viatgers]]
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[[it:Wikitravel:Bar dei viaggiatori]]
 
[[it:Wikitravel:Bar dei viaggiatori]]
 
[[ja:Wikitravel:旅人の居酒屋]]
 
[[ja:Wikitravel:旅人の居酒屋]]
[[ko:Wikitravel:Travellers' pub]]
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[[ko:Wikitravel:사랑방]]
 
[[nl:Wikitravel:Reizigerscafé]]
 
[[nl:Wikitravel:Reizigerscafé]]
 
[[pl:Wikitravel:Pub podróżnika]]
 
[[pl:Wikitravel:Pub podróżnika]]
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[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
----
 
  
== OpenID still not working==
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==Wikitravel Upgrade==
Also, login on en: using OpenID from fr: and URL ''fr:user:joelf'' doesn't seem to work either. Thanks for your help. joelf
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{{disclaimerbox|<big>'''Our new site upgrade has just launched!'''</big>
:Take a look at [[:wts:Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:44, 18 June 2012 (EDT)
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<br>
::Still not working yesterday. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 15:57, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
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We're happy to announce that Wikitravel has been updated to the latest version of mediawiki. Over the next few hours, the admin team will be testing the site as much as possible to catch and fix any bugs resulting from the update. We'd appreciate any help we can get! Simply report bugs to [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Category:Tech_requests on our shared site].
:::We will disable. Not a needed function at this time.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:30, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
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==[[Archaeological sites]] and [[Old Towns]]==
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Some of the new changes include:
Started a page about [[archaeological sites]] and [[Old Towns]]. Contributions and cross-links are welcome. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 08:58, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
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*an updated edit toolbar
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*an updated user toolbar
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*notifications
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*table of contents on banners now have dropdowns with sub-sections
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*multimedia galleries on every page
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*a new, easy to use photo upload form that will be live shortly
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*many small performance and efficiency changes
  
: New articles: [[Christian buildings, sites and events]] and [[Muslim buildings, sites and events]]. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 10:39, 10 September 2012 (EDT)
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Site performance maybe a little weird over the next few days as we stabilize the newest release, thanks for being patient!
 
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}}
:: These should link to existing articles such as [[Holy Land]] and [[UNESCO World Heritage List]]. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 20:52, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
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==Right to vanish policy==
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I feel that we lack a right to vanish policy. The meatball version is to be found [http://meatballwiki.org/wiki/RightToVanish here]. The Wikipedia version is [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Courtesy_vanishing here]. Suggestion: import the current Wikipedia version. [[User:Riggwelter|Riggwelter]] 09:45, 12 September 2012 (EDT)
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:*'''Support''' --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 21:16, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
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== Many more administrators needed? ==
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It's been more than a year since the last Administrator, [[User:Ikan Kekek]], was nominated.
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If you believe a Wikitraveller — including yourself — should have [[Wikitravel:Administrators|administrative status]] please verify that they meet the guidelines for becoming an administrator and then add them to the nominations section at [[Wikitravel:Administrator nominations]]
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Nominations should also include a sentence or two outlining the nominee's relevant experience and understanding of Wikitravel's policies. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 21:24, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
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: The main reason for this problem is that nearly all the current admins have left to start another project. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 22:01, 23 September 2012 (EDT)
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::W. Frank is correct -- qualified admins are needed now, and to guide this project going forward. This is an excellent fresh start for Wikitravel :) --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:29, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
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== Massive spamming ==
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Can the techies improve the captcha or something to cut down on the amount of spam? I've been deleting several pages a day for some time & over a dozen today, and I am not the only admin doing it, but there are lots more. Most involve accounts apparently registered only to spam. Is there a way to prevent spambot registrations? [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 01:24, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
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:Captcha is at its highest level (recaptcha, actually). We're exploring new ways to combat spam accounts, including the Abuse Filter extension. If you notice patterns in the spammers, please let me know. Whether it's coming from a common IP range, always posting the same exact content, similar usernames, etc -- if there's a pattern we can write a rule around, we can set up blocks.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:34, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
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:: One obvious pattern is the dozens of pages with long strings of digits as page names, all with the same content, created by one user. [[Special:Contributions/Русская_месть]]
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:: Another is use of the <nowiki><br></nowiki> tag, not needed on a wiki but found in many pages whose pattern is "Hello, I'm Bozo McGuffin from Camelot.<nowiki><br><br></nowiki> See my blog:" then some rubbish link. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:33, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
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:: Thinking about it, if there was a way to prohibit new users from posting links -- for example just reject any edit to a new user page that includes a link -- that would eliminate most spam. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:51, 24 September 2012 (EDT)
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::: [[User:Пиздец неруси!]] is spamming. Block immediately. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 07:42, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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::::Yes, he has vandalized hundreds of articles. Blocking him before he vandalizes a few hundred more articles might be a nice idea... <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 08:25, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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If you feel strongly about this, as I do, then why not suggest other Wikitravellers — including yourself — for [[Wikitravel:Administrators|Administrator status]]?
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Please verify that they (you?) meet the guidelines for becoming an administrator and then add them to the nominations section at [[Wikitravel:Administrator nominations]]. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 09:17, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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:FYI, we have placed some filters, as well as scripted the mass deletion of the vandalism over the last 2 days. It's not a big deal in the end, just a minor annoyance. Vandalizing a wiki... pointless. Thank you all for you help.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:54, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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::That's great news! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 15:09, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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This account [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD_-_%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5_%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8F_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5!&limit=500&target=%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BD+-+%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5+%D0%B7%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%8F+%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B5!] has vandalised thousands of pages. On the software side of things, can making more than "X number of edits in X amount of time" by a new user/IP address be blocked? [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 03:33, 26 September 2012 (EDT) PS:The name translates (Google Translate) as "Stalin-our shared combat". Wonder if it has something to do with those Pro-Communist/Russian nationalist people we've had to deal with on the Russia & Tiraspol pages?
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:PPS:Looks like several vandalism bots might be those people.  За Родину!= For the Motherland!  Слава России!!!=Glory to Russia!  Слава Родине!=Glory to the motherland!  Пиздец неруси!=Nerusi f***ed!  Русская месть=Русская месть  Возмездие= Retaliation Месть русских=Revenge of the Russian That's all the Cyrillic user names that appear in the block log going back through the 14th.
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:The red box being put on pages corresponds with the [http://wikitravel.org/ru/%D0%A3%D1%87%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA:%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9 page of the user] that has taken over the Russian WT merging former Soviet countries into the "Russia" page. User page translates to: "Слава России! GLORY OF RUSSIA! Glory to the great heroes of the Russian land! Honor, praise, honor and eternal glory to the victorious people! Kudos to you, brave,    GLORY, fearless!        Eternal glory SINGS TO YOU PEOPLE. Valiantly lived,    Death is broken,        MEMORIES OF YOU WILL NEVER DIE! WE - RUSSIAN, God with us!"  Clearly some delusional apparatchik well-versed in Russian nationalist, revisionist history. Can Cyrillic characters be blocked from new user names? Any other ways to deal with this? Seems to me like the people who gave us the headache over on the Russia/Tiraspol pages were likely from Transnistria (which corresponds to the Tiraspol edits & the fact that Transnistria remains stuck in the 1980s with the Communist party in charge). Any way to automatically block (or put restrictions on editing capability) of Moldovan IP addresses? Possible to also add Ukraine, too, because Transnistria borders it and it's possible telecom services might come from Ukraine due to the conflict between Moldova/Transnistria.[[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 04:22, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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: Can we make it impossible to register an account on en with a non-ASCII name? There have been at least two accounts with Russian names used for vandalism. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 03:45, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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::I see the vandalism and your heroic efforts. I think both those restrictions are on the table and good ideas.  Thanks for your heroic efforts in reverting. We'll have to see about a mass revert via username. If the Abuse Filter can handle the x edits/x time restriction, that might do it. Even if we set it to 50/hour, it would have helped here tremendously.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 03:56, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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I would strongly deprecate any blocking based on geographical area or Cyrillic alphabet names. We do not want the innocent to suffer because of the guilty. Number of edits allowable per minute (if technically feasible) would not penalise the innocent newbie so much, but set much lower limits eg 1 edit per 2 minutes for 1st 7 days  of a new account, then 1 edit per 1 minute for next 7 days, then 2 edits per 1 minute for next 28 days, then 3 edits per 1 minute for next 90 days, subject to manual override on appeal. -- <strike>[[Special:Contributions/89.242.187.211|89.242.187.211]]</strike> [[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 04:36, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:I agree with Frank, we shouldn't discriminate against a certain area or language. Anyways, the vandal could switch to ASCII names, so there's not much point in blocking non-ASCII names. But I'm fine with an edits per minute limit. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 10:23, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:: I am taking out anywhere from two to twenty spam pages every time I visit, and that is just the obvious stuff. I'm not even looking at the dozens that are probably spam, the ones with a three-line intro to a "user" and some irrelevant link. Nor am I patrolling edits other than new pages and some things on my watchlist. I am doing far more deletions now than I used to when there was a whole crew of editors, but I'm also seeing more problems I do not have time for and much less patrolling by other admins.
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:: If IB want to keep this site alive despite the massive defection of editors, something must be done quite urgently. Either find many new editors or have IB employees doing extensive patrolling. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:48, 14 October 2012 (EDT)
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::: And the spammers are getting craftier. I believe [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk:Dajamer&diff=prev&oldid=1941189 this one] created several different "Black Hat" user names to vandalise dozens of pages and then went back using his "White hat" user account to "repair" the damage - but also added a tailored external link to a travel guide each time, hoping it would not be noticed in the pag3 "restoration"!
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:::IBadmins are doing extensive patrolling Monday to Friday but there are patterns in this spamming which could be used to automate reversions.
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:::Meanwhile, I would hope that we might see some more [[Wikitravel:Administrator_nominations|Administrator nominations here...]] --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 10:08, 15 October 2012 (EDT)
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::::Thank for that alert, guys -- were you in fact seeing that spam piling up on the weekend? We do expect to see less of that as more admins are starting to peck away at night and weekends. We also are in the process of implementing a number of filters that keep vandalism and spam more at bay, but there is only so much Captcha and filtering can do versus NEW pages; no system is going to be able to tell what is a "good" new page and what is not, because there's very little commonality with which to write a rule that prevents them without potentially preventing "good" new pages from being created.
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::::The good news is, new content continues to be added to WT at a fantastic rate. This site is doing great, and you two are part of the reason. If you have ideas for spam remediation, I am more than happy to implement them!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:24, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
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:::::I do have one lead that you might want to check out - but since I suspect it might be against (your implicit) policy to mention the source here, I will email you about it. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 18:44, 18 October 2012 (EDT)
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===Abuse filter===
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The abuse filter names are singularly unhelpful (they appear to be named after things like Stephen King novels and the like).  When a user gets a message like "A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Lethal Weapon", that doesn't help them make more constructive edits, because it doesn't explain what the problem was.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 16:47, 25 October 2012 (EDT)
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===Legal action?===
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User [[User:IBlegal]] has made some imprecise and obnoxious threats and IB has actually sued some users and there are countersuits[https://blog.wikimedia.org/2012/09/05/wikimedia-foundation-seeks-declaratory-relief-in-response-to-legal-threats-from-internet-brands/].
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Would it not be a better use of legal dep't time to go after the spammers who are actively and persistently damaging the site? I took out 24 rubbish pages today, 19 yesterday, and I'm just doing the obvious ones. Unchecked, these bozos will destroy WT.
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Also, going after spammers would be much better politically, doing something that might help all the other wiki sites out there rather than appearing petulant and aggressive. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 06:09, 13 November 2012 (EST)
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:You're not wrong! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 15:01, 13 November 2012 (EST)
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::That was literally months ago. We've moved on.
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::FYI legal has nothing whatsoever to do with spam. Spam is handled here, by people like you & me. Some of it we can handle technically, a lot of it manually. This is how it is everywhere. It's a neverending battle, but we do very well at it. I saw your edits over the weekend and recently, Pashley, and you're doing an amazing job! For instance: the life of the [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Undelete/Various_Knobs_and_pulls_for_door knob and door] page was... about 3 hours? That's fantastic!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 16:05, 13 November 2012 (EST)
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:::That's great news if it really is true that Internet Brands have reached an out of court settlement with the Wikimedia foundation and the former contributors to this site that it sued, IBobi. Where can we see the press release and ''then'' move on? --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 16:23, 13 November 2012 (EST)
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::: Good question! [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 08:02, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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Yes, I know that currently "legal has nothing whatsoever to do with spam"; I am suggesting that they should. There are laws in place that make misuse of other people's computers a criminal offense and/or grounds for a lawsuit in many jurisdictions. The site logs have IP addresses for where this rubbish comes from. The spam itself has URLs for advertised pages. I'm both cynical and biased, so my opinion of IB's legal department is remarkably low, but I imagine they could do this. It might even be profitable if they nail the right spammers. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 08:13, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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:Again, you're not wrong!
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:Although, the hard case spammers can use proxy servers and internet cafe's to try and attempt to circumvent these lawsuits, it would be a relatively trivial programming task to block IP edits (as opposed to edits by registered users) from each proxy or IP address as it becomes known for abuse. In this case I would suggest also blocking edits by registered users from each black-listed proxy or IP address until an editor using a black-listed proxy or IP address has made a certain number of good edits - say 15 - so that privacy obsessed and registered "good" editors are not handicapped in any way.
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:Thanks for continuing your spam removal, Pashley! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 10:15, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::Ideally I agree with all of this. Internet companies have explored many avenues for actually tracking down spammers who blast their sites. The sad reality is they continue to make enough money doing this that they can afford to employ armies of people in between themselves and the site, masking IPs, and generally making themselves untouchable to anything short of the FBI; and if they're outside the US? No idea. Interpol? We always do as Frank suggested, blocking obvious spam user accounts permanently while also blocking the IP address they come from for a shorter amount of time. It's the best that can be done, and it works. The amount and type of spam we had three months ago was night and day compared to now. As we continue to add admins, it will get even better.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:46, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::: You think the current situation is "better"? Wow! To me, it seems an almost complete disaster.
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::: Checking recent changes, I find I have nuked 57 garbage pages in the last four days. I am ''only'' checking main article space and only taking out really obvious spam. There are certainly dozens I am missing; I would not be surprised if it were hundreds.
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::: Moreover, I generally just nuke the page leaving it to others to block the bogus users. I quite often see the page reappear in my watchlist with new spam, indicating that no-one is doing those blocks. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 14:07, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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:::::It's definitely better; the measure is not how many spam pages appear, it's how long do they live on the site for. If a spammer/spambot creates a page, we delete the page, block the spam account and block the IP they used, the same spammer can then create the same page using a new account and IP. That's why you may see that happening after you nuke a page; it isn't the same IP or account, it's the same spammer. If I could delete *people* I would ;)
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:::::By the same token, if you do happen to see the same page reappear after being created by the same user/IP, please let me know. We can always use more tips on how to get it done best. Whenever possible, I use the following technique:
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:::::1. Locate spam edit. 2. Block user/IP. 3. Protect the spam page to be editable admins only (in the hopes that it won't be able to be recreated). 4. Delete the spam page.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:16, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::::::You talk a good game but, as my neighbours sometimes say in Glasgow [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3AIBAlex&action=historysubmit&diff=1952468&oldid=1952345 you seem to be all mouth and nae troosers!].
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::::::IB: "As we continue to add admins" but [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3AIBAlex&action=historysubmit&diff=1953924&oldid=1953816]
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Good luck. I took out a dozen rubbish pages today, but I feel like I'm almost alone both as a contributor & as an admin. There are masses of admin work being left undone &mdash; patrolling in general, in particular catching the bogus user pages I mentioned above, blocking the bogus users for pages I've deleted (one spambot whose drivel I removed refilled the page eight times before I got bored & removed it from my watchlist; it is probably still active), appointing new admins (see troosers just above), ...
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My editing work now is on other wikis where there's a reasonable community to interact with and admin things actually get done. I'll keep the account here and pop in from time to time to see what's doing, but for now I'm done with even trying to fix the spam problem. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 17:16, 29 November 2012 (EST)
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+
:''Bon voyage'', Sandy!
+
:The dwindling '''real''' community on Wikitravel (as opposed to some PR-speak or Orwellian new definition) certainly have appreciated your erudite contributions and dogged persistence to the bitter end here.
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+
:I'll probably linger on (at least until fired by IBobi or one of his minions) since I hate seeing a good project destroyed by boneheaded stupidity and inaction. I'll message you privately via one of your other projects (since e-mailing is still disabled here) if there is anything cosmic that needs your urgent attention. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 19:35, 29 November 2012 (EST)
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+
:::Very sorry to hear that. In general, this *is* how spam gets removed. I and the other admins here at IB are constantly removing the spam that gets through the Captcha, Spam Blacklist, and Abuse Filters that we are also constantly updating. There will always be people trying to spam the site, and we'll always be here removing it. It's simply not possible to stop it all on the front end, so blocking and deleting is the order of the day. It's a fact of life, and any site that encourages anyone to edit it will have to deal.
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:::You've been a very valuable admin here, Sandy, and I hope you'll reconsider & stay. Any suggestions you have will be heeded; in particular, if there are persistent spambots, we can block them at the IP level, or even rages of IPs -- there's no reason to continually remove the same content.
+
:::Either way, we'll be seeing you around, and thank you :) --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:52, 29 November 2012 (EST)
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+
::: Pashley, it's sad to see you giving up. Please know, that everybody here '''highly appreciates your contributions''' and your '''administrative efforts'''. Spam is going to be always happening on sites where the content is generated by users. Actually, right now IB notices way less spam than it used to be. There are more people keeping an eye on the site plus we set up a bunch of abuse filters that help us significantly.
+
:::We would like to  see you here often. Please know that you are always welcomed on Wikitravel! Cheers! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 19:54, 29 November 2012 (EST)
+
 
+
== Help! ==
+
 
+
I'm trying to remove vandalism on the page [[Midwest (United States of America)]]. But I can't, and I get the message:
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This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your edit was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Link spamming by anonymous or recently-registered users
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+
Why is reverting vandalism harmful?! (unsigned by [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/204.45.134.109 204.45.134.109])
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+
:Hi there, It may be that your edit included a link, which is something the system looks for from newly registered or anonymous IP editors (since they are often sources of spam). Sorry about that, it's a protection that helps keep Wikitravel's pages clean and spam-free. I recommend registering an account, and after you've become recognized by the community and the system, your edits can be properly attributed to you, etc. Welcome aboard!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:42, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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+
:Also, I have made that revert!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:58, 25 September 2012 (EDT)
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::Ok, I've made an account and I'm trying to revert vandalism on the page [[Mombasa]], but I cant, and I still get the same message! Im only trying to help wikitravel. [[User:Ÿ;;!!!|Ÿ;;!!!]] 09:31, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
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:::I'm sorry, I realize you're helping by editing the page back to where it was before. Please keep making constructive edits -- we're happy to have you!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 03:07, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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== MVGreenland ==
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+
User [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/MVGreenland MVGreenland] has been contributing many listings and photos (see WS). What do you think of these contributions? Touting?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:34, 27 September 2012 (EDT)
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+
:Someone needs to review all the photos to ensure the licensing is correct...someone over on WT Shared needs to check these. Make sure to click the link to the photo. At first I clicked the link to the user stream and saw all the photos were copyrighted. However, when I clicked on the link to the photo ([http://wikitravel.org/shared/File:Raining_Qaqortoq.jpeg on WTS] and [http://www.flickr.com/photos/ilovegreenland/4929429831/ on flickr]) I noticed it was licensed CC-SA 2.5 on WTS & CC-A 2.0 on flickr. As far as edits go, I went through the most recent 100 edits and didn't see anything that goes against our policies. There were a couple photos of businesses added (1-2 hotels & a bookshop), but none of the wording in hotel listings this user has added sound like touting. IMO, the user seems like a very helpful contributor to our Greenland pages. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 00:24, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
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::Thanks for that -- I generally felt the same way, as did IBcash, about the tone of his edits. Skirting the line perhaps but nothing worse than other business owners do.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 01:29, 28 September 2012 (EDT)
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== Selection of Destination of the Month and Off the Beaten Path for Main Page ==
+
 
+
Hey current editors! We have changed the Destination of the Month and Off the Beaten Path sections of the Main Page for October. However, we would value your input and suggestions in the [[Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates|Destination of the Month candidates page]] for following months. Please check it out! [[User:IBcash|IBcash]] 15:38, 2 October 2012 (EDT)
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+
:Obviously I'd like to feature a New Zealand destination - but first I need to get one to Star status! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 07:50, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
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::Albuquerque has been already featured in the past as a Destination of the Month. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 17:01, 3 October 2012 (EDT)
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::: You're right! It slipped past me. Thanks! Since we changed it early because we didn't have one in September, we could keep it there until the 15th (the actual time when the OTBP would change) and then change it. What do you think? Any suggestions for another October OTBP? [[User:IBcash|IBcash]] 13:59, 4 October 2012 (EDT)
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::::Thanks guys.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:55, 16 October 2012 (EDT)
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:::::Hello! Are there any suggestions for the '''Destination of the Month''' and '''Off the Beaten Path''' for '''December'''. Please let us know your ideas [[Wikitravel:Destination of the Month candidates|here]]. Thank you! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 19:04, 27 November 2012 (EST)
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== References/footnotes/quoting ==
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+
Hello everyone,
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+
Being an experienced Wikipedia editor, but very, '''very''' new to Wikitravel editing (though a somewhat frequent reader of), I - on my very first intended edit - ran into a question.<br />
+
In the [[Slovakia#By_car|By car]]-section of the [[Slovakia]] travel guide, I would like to have quoted a part of the [http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/slovakia UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office travel advice for Slovakia]: "''The standard of driving is not high and can be aggressive. Specifically, beware of oncoming cars overtaking on your side of the road (particularly on bends and hills).''" In my view it sums it up very brilliantly (having being a driving tourist in Slovakia on several occasions) and I think, that sourcing it would only make it all the more authoritative in this case. While being a reader of Wikitravel I have never pondered over the "lack" of quotes, but I have now looked into both a number of articles as well as various parts of the [[Wikitravel:Manual of style]], the [[Wikitravel:External links]] (could be it had something - it didn't) and [[Wikitravel:Welcome, Wikipedians]]/[[Wikitravel:Cooperating with Wikipedia]]/[[shared:How to re-use Wikipedia content]] (Wikipedia is rather anal about quoting and sourcing). Basically I came up empty-handed in all cases. I even found [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Reflist]] indicating that I'm not the only one with this "predicament". So my question is:<br />
+
How do I quote and reference it?
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I'm inclined to just insert a statement such as:
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:As the UK Foreign & Commonwealth Office put it in their [http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-living-abroad/travel-advice-by-country/europe/slovakia travel advice for Slovakia]: "The standard of driving is not high and can be aggressive. Specifically, beware of oncoming cars overtaking on your side of the road (particularly on bends and hills)."
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But I would rather do it in the right manner, in case I have missed something very obvious :). In kind regards, Henrik/[[User:Heb|Heb]] 04:01, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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::You could go the short quote route (under the fair dealing copyright provisions) providing a link to the source (that might quickly become outdated) but it might be better just to put that in your own words - especially if you've personal experience of driving in Slovakia. That would mean one less external link - [[Wikitravel:External_links|which we prefer]]. We normally don't reference material here and unless we're (rarely) using a direct quote, don't usually source either. Enjoy your new-found freedom and plunge forward Henrik!--[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 07:55, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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== SVG-files? ==
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Okay, another question from newbie Dane, but please bare with me...<br />
+
I wanted to update the S-train-map in the [[Copenhagen#Get_around|Get around]]-section of the [[Copenhagen]] travel guide. The one currently there is from 2009, and there has been two changes since then. Because I am slightly lazy, I thought of using the [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:S-train_diagram_(dec_2011).svg map from Wikimedia Commons], which as far as I read [[shared:Tech:Enable InstantCommons]] should be fairly easy. Unfortunately the simple <nowiki>[[Image:S-train diagram (dec 2011).svg|thumb|420px|Map of S-trains and Metro in the Copenhagen area, with districts marked in the background]]</nowiki> didn't work - and neither did replacing Image: with File:. So I tried including a .png-file from Wikimedia Commons and that actually did work :)<br />
+
Then I did a [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&redirs=1&search=svg&fulltext=Search&ns6=1&redirs=1&title=Special%3ASearch&advanced=1&fulltext=Advanced+search search for .svg-files on Wikitravel] and there seems to be a lot of them. But none of them works. So I'm guessing there is an issue with SVG-files somewhere. I tried with SVG-files on Wikimedia Commons and there have no problems. What do I do? In kind regards, Henrik/[[User:Heb|Heb]] 04:28, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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:I'm afraid this is beyond my knowledge - but I can confirm it's a real problem - I had to substitute a png file for an svg file in [[Template:Busy|this template]], Henrik. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 17:16, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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::I will have tech look into this! Thank you, --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:30, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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:::OK -- we're seeing that they do in fact work (you have to click all the way through to the actual file, not the thumbnail), they just won't produce thumbnails.
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:::Can you tell me how you're uploading them, and where, step by step, i.e. 1) Go this page 2) Edit 3) Upload this file or reference this file 4) Error?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:50, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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::::Looks like this may be fixed; thumbnails should slowly repopulate as the cache rebuilds over time. Let me know if this is still not working as expected.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 20:16, 17 October 2012 (EDT)
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== Travel news ==
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Hello! I would like to call to action all the administrators and contributors on WT.
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For a long time [[Travel news]] have been outdated. It is time to change it and keep the Travel Alerts and Current and upcoming events up-to-date. To achieve that, '''I need your help'''. Who is willing to offer his/her help? Thank you! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 15:54, 29 October 2012 (EDT)
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:I think many of us are waiting for some straight answers [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel:Travellers%27_pub&oldid=1954973#Clarification here] before we decide whether it's worth the effort in doing anything other than curating the articles that have already been written, Aleksandra. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 19:56, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::It's a pity to hear that, Frank, because I really believe in Wikitravel and I would like to make the site as much updated as possible. I know that with '''yours''' and '''community''' support it will be easier and better. [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 20:27, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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==Edit war: [[Stay safe]] section in [[Stockholm]]==
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The [[stay safe]] section in [[Stockholm]] (and to some extent [[Sweden]]) is frequently subject to edit conflicts, many of them pushing the opinion that Stockholm would be a dangerous city. Can you give some advice how to solve this disagreement? Thanks in advance. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 09:45, 6 November 2012 (EST)
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:Hello Blist! Thank you for notifying me. I checked it out and I saw that the user with the IP address 84.217.118.107 has made just one change in the [[stay safe]] section in [[Stockholm]]. However, I have already contacted him asking to avoid edit wars on [[Stockholm]] page and discuss all the changes he is planning to do on the [[Talk:Stockholm| discussion page]].
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:I am also watching this page so I will keep an eye on this issue. Cheers! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 13:04, 6 November 2012 (EST)
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::The best solution is always to discuss the changes you both are making, using the Discussion page for that article. Sometimes it can be difficult to get an IP user to engage in this way. Try leaving a detailed note in the Edit Summary asking him/her to talk to you.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:43, 6 November 2012 (EST)
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== ideas for group travel, family that does not get together much ==
  
::: POV-pushing continues, by first-time unregistered users. Can anything more be done? Please contribute to [[Talk:Stockholm]]. /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 07:06, 26 November 2012 (EST)
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HI
 +
What a fabulous project! I cannot believe I never found this before.
 +
Some of my family wants to get together more often and we are trying to organize a group trip, 5 or so days, prepaid food options, lots of activities, and I don't think we care where we go but some need to keep the costs down.
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Most of the family is in the north east.
 +
Any one have suggestions about places to go, cruises to try, etc.
  
== Travel booking tool! ==
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:Hi there! If I had to make a suggestion, I would say Vermont! It's beautiful there and relatively less costly than a lot of places in New England. [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 15:59, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
Soon, Wikitravellers will have the ability not only to browse and edit travel topics right here on the world's largest and best free travel wiki, but also to *book* travel from the very same page.
+
  
Wikitravel has partnered with Orbitz to bring you a tool that will give you air and hotel booking options on each destination page in our travel guide. If you log in to your Wikitravel account, you will need to go to your *preferences* in order to turn on this booking tool -- you will not see it at all unless you turn it on.
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:Hello! Ignore having family trips during Spring months March and April because of Spring Breakers. [[Cabo San Lucas]] has many beach hotels with cheap all-inclusive packages and fun water attractions for the kids. [[Puerto Peñasco]] aka Rocky Point has many affordable beach houses to rent. [[Catalina Island]] is chalk full of family visitors and easily noticeable activities all along the beach. I suggest renting a house or condo near the main city of [[Avalon]]. Catalina is my top preference for you because of the darling city and the family-friendly environment. [[User:IBrobin|IBrobin]] ([[User talk:IBrobin|talk]]) 16:12, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
  
We've worked with the Wikitravel community over the past 2 years to determine exactly what the look and feel of the tool ought to be; please let us know any feedback you have, and we'll make every effort to accommodate changes! Thank you, --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 14:34, 19 November 2012 (EST)
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== Uploading the pictures ==
  
:I think this is a great idea for monetising the site!
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Could someone help me to upload the pictures? I click "Upload a picture" and I am automatically log out. What is the reason and how to avoid it? <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User: M.izhyk|M.izhyk]] ([[User_talk: M.izhyk|talk]] [[Special:Contributions/M.izhyk|contribs]]) </small>
:I also like the way that none of our registered editors will probably ever notice this. After all, you're not wrong when you continually point out that there are millions of visitors to this site who never bother to register and will automatically get a chance to make bookings.
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:So as not to weaken the credibility of the ads, it's even more important to give more people effective janitor tools!
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:However, I still think that you should clarify in writing the community established policies you have changed. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 15:05, 19 November 2012 (EST)
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::I've switched on the display of Orbitz but still I never see it. What pages is it actually working on, please?
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::Also, Wikitravel has been slow to the point of being unusable today from this Pacific Rim country - the competing Wikimedia site loads more than 100 times faster on identical pages like [[North Korea]]. More than 20 times in succession I get the "Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data" message. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 04:07, 22 November 2012 (EST)
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:::Did I miss an important announcement? I still don't see the display of Orbitz travel information but now the option to switch it on has disappeared completely from my preferences. What gives? --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 02:54, 30 November 2012 (EST)
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::::At this time, the tool is only available if you are not logged in. We will restore functionality to those who wish to use it while logged in soon.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:07, 30 November 2012 (EST)
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Thanks for your prompt response.
+
  
I assume you are still having technical problems since I have just seen the Orbitz tool appear for the first time '''while logged in''' and with my preferences flag '''not''' set to "Show Orbitz Search", as this screenshot clearly shows if you click on it to enlarge: [[Image:WikitravelScreenshot20121201Orbitz-Displays-while-logged-in.png|150px|Screenshot a few moments after IBobi's assertion]] Please feel free to email me if you need help.
+
:Hi, when you click "Upload a picture" it automatically redirects you to [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Main_Page Wikitravel Shared], where all pictures need to be uploaded. Once uploaded there you can then add them to the articles. A separate account is needed so just create one there and follow the instructions on the site. If you have any further questions, please let us know, your edits are appreciated! Thank you [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 05:59, 6 March 2016 (EST)
  
With [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel:Travellers%27_pub&curid=76403&diff=1961629&oldid=1961571 this edit] you removed another user's comments. Unless there are exceptional reasons, this is frowned upon, so I assume the excision was accidental, yes? --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 15:10, 30 November 2012 (EST)
+
== question about travel, concerning the people leaving the middle east and going to europe ==
  
:Alice- you have to go to your web browser's options and '''clear cache''' . Then the Orbitz Widget will not show again. I hope it helps. [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 15:27, 30 November 2012 (EST)
+
does the migration of people affect the travel industry? Are all the hotels/hostels full, etc?
 +
[[Special:Contributions/56.0.84.26|56.0.84.26]] 16:39, 17 March 2016 (EDT)
  
==[[Southwest (United States of America)]]==
+
: Hello! have no worry: migrants don't affect the travel industry as they don't stay at hostels and don't eat at restaurants. Actually, on the contrary, there is plenty of space and prices may even tend to be cheaper. (Talking about Southern Europe, where you should head to for great holidays ;) ) [[User:PierrB|PierrB]] ([[User talk:PierrB|talk]]) 20:07, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
What happened to this page? Its text is now on [[Southwest United States]] but that page doesn't contain the history. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 22:00, 31 October 2012 (EDT)
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:Bizarre! You might want to check the logs. (IBadmins have recently promoted - without any community discussion or warning - a number of admins that, unlike yourself, have a very limited understanding of the policies and procedures of the English Wikitravel. Equally it might be some new spammer trickery.) --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 00:57, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
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::Fixed; no biggie. Just re-saved from earlier edit. Happens with MW database on occasion.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 04:58, 1 November 2012 (EDT)
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:::Thanks for your very rapid response.
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:::I have deleted the contents & re-directed: [[Southwest (United States of America)]] since it's a breach of our Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike licence to duplicate a page without duplicating the attribution history.
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:::I'm still baffled as to how (on the face of it) an IP editor managed to duplicate an article and then delete the original (and its edit history) and all without leaving a trace in the logs. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 00:36, 4 November 2012 (EDT)
+
  
::::Without doing extensive research, I'm not sure that's how it went down. Looked to me like a DB error that was easily corrected. At any rate, after verifying that the "new" page redirects also redirected to the "old" page, I went ahead and deleted the "new" page, as it consisted of nothing more than dupe content, which is confusing. We don't want people contributing on one location and not the other, which is just what would happen.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 15:52, 5 November 2012 (EST)
+
== San Francisco. ==
  
===Database error===
+
There appears to be no main page for [[San Francisco]]. I can't remember having ever seen one, but I'm pretty sure there must have been one at one point so it looks as if it's been deleted. There are still district pages there (eg [[San_Francisco/Tenderloin]]) but no main page. Can it be restored?
What is this database error? There are many pages missing including [[Ocean City]], [[Sydney/Bondi Beach]], [[Afrikaans phrasebook]]. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 18:27, 5 November 2012 (EST)
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:We're looking into what causes this. Obviously we do not want to wait until a knowledgeable editor like yourself discovers pages that are unusable. Did you find these by browsing to them or by some other method?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:39, 5 November 2012 (EST)
+
  
==[[Wikitravel:Geocoding]] is also broken==
+
--[[User:Ruudboy|Ruudboy]] ([[User talk:Ruudboy|talk]]) 10:29, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
The article above states: "''It's possible to encode information about the latitude and longitude of a destination into the destination guide itself. This information will then be used to make special HTML tags to show that the page is related to those lat/long coordinates;"..."A "Map" link will also be added to the "Toolbox" in the left pane, which will take users to a Google, Yahoo, or Microsoft map of the location.''"
+
  
I've added the relevant template to our [[Nelson (New Zealand)]] article but the "Map" link was '''not''' added to the "Toolbox" in the left pane! --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 20:37, 6 November 2012 (EST)
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:Hi, thanks for noticing that, I am not sure what happened but the page has been restored now. Thanks again for letting us know. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 11:03, 24 March 2016 (EDT)
  
:Hmm. Research shows that there have been problems with this template interfering with formatting. And not being terribly useful besides. We'll have to look into this one. Do you see an example where it is working?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 13:35, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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== Updates: April 2016 ==
  
::I can't find any page where it is '''not''' currently broken - sorry.  
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A new month means new featured pages on the home page!
 +
[[File:Stroopwafel.jpg|thumb|150 px|Stroopwafel]]
 +
:[[Berlin]] is April's [[Destination of the Month]] - this major city was long overdue for it's rightful title.
  
::It's not terribly useful to save the few keystrokes needed to key "Nelson, New Zealand" into the on-line mapping provider of your choice but
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:[[Huangshan]] takes its place as our pick for [[Off the Beaten Path]] - its wondrous peaks have captivated Chinese artists for centuries.
:#it would enhance the advertising click revenue of Internet Brands to have our relevant article page (with advertising by default) show up on users geocode-enabled smartphones according to their GPS location
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:#it's '''''very''''' useful to find out of the way places (often in third world countries) where names are often incompletely found or differently spelt on maps. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 17:01, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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==ISBN book references are also broken==
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:[[Stonehenge]] is the '''Landmark of the Month''' - its well-known around the world and a natural pick.
As can be seen if you click on any of the ISBN numbers (in blue) in this section: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Philippines&oldid=1951302#Books
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You are taken to the special page but, although the search box is correctly pre-populated the "Go" search button no longer works. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 16:26, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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:[[Persian phrasebook|Persian]] is our '''Language of the Month''' - Every bit as regal as it is ancient.
  
:Hmm. I'll queue it; no guarantees on timing as this is the first I've seen of this functionality.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:00, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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:Our itinerary pick is [[Hong Kong in a day]]. Should you be so lucky to be in the area, this guide can help you see it all.
  
::Appears to be working as designed. It's generating the AMAZON and B&N, etc. links at the bottom of the page. The input box is just to refresh the page and generate those links. Let me know if you have info to the contrary.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:12, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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:The '''Cuisine of the Month''' is [[Netherlands#Eat|Dutch]]. They have a sweet tooth and so do we!
  
==Clarification==
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New features will go up in May, feel free to make suggestions in this thread. The articles should have a healthy amount of content and several pictures! [[User:IBcaldera|IBcaldera]] ([[User talk:IBcaldera|talk]]) 19:07, 1 April 2016 (EDT)
Because of the recent [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk:Pratyeka&diff=prev&oldid=1949763 misunderstanding] of our policies by a long-standing Wikipedia admin, I have clarified and re-emphasised [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel%3AExternal_links&action=historysubmit&diff=1950083&oldid=1896765 our specific policies on linking to (or promoting) other travel sites that use wiki editing software here]. I doubt that many will read it in advance, but at least the clarified policy is now there to be quoted in explanation after a redaction or deletion. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 00:36, 4 November 2012 (EDT)
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'''UPDATE''': My clarifications have now been deleted (twice).
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: [[Huangshan]] certainly deserves a spot here. It's not only one of the best-known scenic attractions, but also a cultural icon throughout Chinese history. It would be nice if other well-know mountains such as [[Mount Tai]] and [[Huashan]] are featured too. [[Special:Contributions/123.139.106.245|123.139.106.245]] 07:56, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
  
So we are now back to the hypocrytical situation of having one policy actively enforced and promulgated (at least by some IBadmins) without ever having that policy enunciated on any policy page that I am aware of. I think I'll change my user name to ''George Orwell''. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 18:48, 5 November 2012 (EST)
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: The landmark of the month blurb has a typo. Or at least it's missing a word. It says: "There are many theories and questions surrounding." ... which isn't a complete sentence. Probably needs the word "it" at the end. --[[User:Mukkakukaku|Mukkakukaku]] ([[User talk:Mukkakukaku|talk]]) 11:35, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
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::Hi, thanks for noticing the typo in the [[Stonehenge]] blurn, I just corrected it. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 11:57, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
  
:1. WT editors are not to make changes to policies unilaterally. That is why the changes were reverted (at the request of another non-IB editor). 2. The policy in question doesn't really need a change. It's being interpreted internally in a way that it hasn't been interpreted before, due to a situation that has not arisen before. And it's almost entirely in the past. Thus there is no reason to amend policy, both because as it stands it is being applied consistently, and because the situation requiring that interpretation was unique and has now passed. It's time to move forward.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 19:06, 5 November 2012 (EST)
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:::Great to see the [[Netherlands#Eat|Dutch]] Cuisine of the Month! Me being dutch but living in Portugal, I do miss our food sometimes. Eating a liquorice as we speak, brought by guests who arrived....... [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 12:03, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
  
::1) I don't think you can have it both ways. Either you genuinely do not think '''We do not allow (and will attempt to strenuously police and expunge) external links to, or promotion of, ''travel'' websites that are not primary sources - this policy ''includes other wikis'', whether Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 licensed or not''' has been our policy for a long time or <s>I'm a Dutchman</s> the policy in question has always existed and doesn't really need a change. Instead it's being interpreted internally in a way that it hasn't been interpreted before, due to a situation that has not arisen before. That interpretation needs to be made explicit and prominent to avoid edit wars.
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== How to request edits to templates? ==
::2) I do think it completely Orwellian and counter productive not to explicitly warn people that they should not include links to or use the ''naughty names'' of other travel wikis in text - particularly those that have recently started operating from Wikimedia servers. Since I am not an admin I really do need an explicit policy to link to in a terse but precise and authoritative way when I excise ''naughty names or links'' if the (often ''bona fide'' but ignorant-of-our-policy-that-can-not-speak-its-name) editor is not to be left puzzled, frustrated and annoyed by my (to him, incomprehensible) edits. An example of this is where an article discussion section dating back to July 2006 was removed to the [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3AIBAlex&action=historysubmit&diff=1951308&oldid=1950874 genuine puzzlement of an IP contributor]. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 16:51, 7 November 2012 (EST)
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On a related but different topic, I really find it objectionable that no official announcements are being made about new admin appointments.
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Is there a way to "ping" someone with template editing privileges? On other wikis, they usually have some kind of "request edit" template that gets stuck on the talk page with a description of the requested change, but I wasn't able to find the equivalent here on wikitravel.
  
It is bad enough that folks are [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3AIBMaarten&action=historysubmit&diff=1954335&oldid=1954333 arbitrarily being made an admin on the English language version of Wikitravel, without the usual experience+nomination+discussion process but secret appointments] are really not my idea of "moving on".
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The [[Template:IPA|IPA template]] has an extra line break before the <nowiki><noinclude></nowiki> which is causing funny formatting when transcluded. If you include a space after using the template, then the line break forces the space to a new line, causing it to preformat the subsequent text. This is causing the [[My Son]] page to render oddly.
  
If this character is '''not''' an admin, I really deprecate that this [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=50&username=IB naming loophole] has not been plugged weeks ago as I suggested! --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 16:11, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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Can someone fix the template (just remove the line break between the close parenthesis and the <nowiki><noinclude></nowiki>), and perhaps add some information somewhere accessible on how to request a change to a template? Thanks, [[User:Mukkakukaku|Mukkakukaku]] ([[User talk:Mukkakukaku|talk]]) 12:04, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
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:'''[http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Template%3AIPA&action=historysubmit&diff=2393290&oldid=2205659 Fixed]''' Mukkakukaku, this is the best place to ping someone. Thanks for your sharp eye. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 10:07, 3 April 2016 (EDT)
  
:Unfortunately there's no way I know of to prevent that yet. But since we watch all new user creation, we'll catch it if it happens. Sometimes users are appointed internally as admins. No biggie. I was such a user, and look how great I've turned out :) --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 16:21, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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== English food? ==
 +
I'm travelling to the UK in the fall, mostly staying in Southampton and London. How's the food? I've heard mixed things from friends.
 +
[[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 15:28, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
  
::Has [[User_talk:IBMaarten|IBMaarten]] arbitrarily been made an admin, on the English language version of Wikitravel, without the usual experience + nomination + discussion process but as a secret appointment?? Yes or No, please. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 16:35, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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:I have tried english food before while I was in london. I found it to be shallow and pedantic. --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 15:30, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
  
:::I thought I explained it? And the edit that made him an admin was clear: he's administering the Dutch site, and also working on EN. There's nothing secret, Frank. Rejoice: and welcome the new admin!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 16:50, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::Ok, all joking aside. While I didn't eat at any fancy restaurants, I found it to be a bit boring and very salty, just wasn't for meBest of luck on your trip! --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 11:57, 13 May 2016 (EDT)
::::No, we have still not had any announcement from you, any other IBadmin or a properly appointed admin, never mind on the proper pages and you have still not answered with a "Yes".
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::::Neither was his admin status on the English language version of Wikitravel showing at: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special%3AActiveUsers&limit=50&username=IB at the time I posed the question above and at the time I make this edit.(I've taken a screenshot which I can post if you doubt my veracity).
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:::::We're not mind readers, you know and you really are abusing all of our policies and processes now. As for there being nothing secret, that really is a lie as Alice makes clear above.  
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:::::Would you now make clear (with a properly formatted diff) what exactly was "the edit that made him an admin", please?
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:::::And for the avoidance of doubt, I personally have no objection in principle to admins from other language versions being rapidly promoted to admin status on the EN Wikitravel. But there should be a clear announcement on the proper page(s) each time this happens and you urgently need to revise all those policy pages that you currently keep flouting. To do anything less is to destroy any chance of re-building the community that has been decimated by your autocratic and thoroughly whimsical decisions, never mind poisoning the wholehearted welcome that would otherwise be given to new (and sorely needed) wielders of the mop. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 18:30, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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::::::I believe you can view [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=&year=&month=-1&tagfilter=&hide_patrol_log=1 this page?] Sorry you're unhappy Frank. We're promoting anyone who gets the required community support in the required time period, and shows the best qualities to help the community move forward. Thank you, --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] [[User talk:IBobi|talk]] [[Special:EmailUser/IBobi|email]] 18:46, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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:'''South Asian''' I've heard that the best South Asian food in the world is in the UK (I have never been)--look for Indian restaurants if you like that type of cuisine. And who doesn't? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 08:29, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
  
:::::::That User rights log is not a page that can be added to anyone's watchlist and neither do I know of a way to find out what pages internally link to it. Do you seriously expect editors to load that page every few hours to find out what admin has been appointed on the English language version of Wikitravel most recently?
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::Great tip, I'll have to remember this next time I'm on the others side of the pond! --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 14:32, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
:::::::I note that you have still not dealt with the most pressing point: '''Explicit Clarification in writing''', on the English language version of Wikitravel, in the obvious places of the new policies and, if they are of only a temporary nature, their expected date of expiry. --[[User:W. Frank|W.&nbsp;'''Frank''']]<sup>[[Special:EmailUser/W. Frank|<font color="green">e-mail</font>]]</sup><sub>[[User talk:W. Frank|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sub> 18:59, 15 November 2012 (EST)
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==Is "formatting according to our [[MoS]]" edit warring?==
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:::Basically English food is all co-opted from their historic colonies.  I wouldn't be surprised if Hong Kong food is very popular. --[[User:Ibrshao|Ibrshao]] ([[User talk:Ibrshao|talk]]) 14:34, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Perhaps appropriately, given its subject matter, [[Wikitravel talk:Edit war|this policy page]] has been constructed by individual editors plunging forward and writing stuff that seemed blindingly obvious to them.
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Rather refreshingly, a brand new IBadmin [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk%3ASingapore.Alice&action=historysubmit&diff=1956425&oldid=1956420 has queried] whether making persistent changes to article formatting is "''something that needs to be '''discussed first within the community'''. I'm referring to this [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel%3AEdit_war&action=historysubmit&diff=1956416&oldid=1516343] change.''"
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::::Interesting Ibrshao, I'll have to try more than just fish and chips and full english breakfast! --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 16:49, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Does anybody else think that (for example) when more knowledgeable editors continuously and relentlessly change formatting that does not conform to our [[Manual of Style]] (without good reason) - such as changing "150 Pesos" to the more correct "₱150" - this is edit warring?
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::Thanks Koavf! I've heard the same, especially about curry! And while I'm kind of a wimp when it comes to spice, I still suffer through it for good Indian. A friend from Gujurat used to make great dinners. Any experience on the more "traditional" UK stuff? [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 14:47, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Who else thinks that in cases of controversy, the style manual should '''not''' trump? --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 15:05, 19 November 2012 (EST)
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:The classic british fish and chips always tends to be better from seaside towns, particularly those with an active fishing fleet. For the full experience ensure you takeaway and eat out of the paper wrapping. [[User:Alecf|Alecf]] ([[User talk:Alecf|talk]]) 16:47, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
  
:Edit warring is edit warring, regardless of whether one of the parties is "right" and the other party is "wrong".
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::Alecf, in the newspaper, right?! Any word on roasts? I'm American and I know they're popular here, but I'm going to take a stab and say they're a little different on the other side of the pond. [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 16:52, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
  
:If two people are changing the article formatting back and forth, the correct thing to do is to follow the procedure discussed in [[Wikitravel:Edit war]]. [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] 22:11, 21 November 2012 (EST)
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::Haha yeah, its not printed newspaper, just the same kind of paper. Roast dinners are difficult because a lot of them are mass produced and bland, not your classic home cooked job. Probably have best luck for a roast at a good independent gastro pub. Too many pubs these days have become chains though. [[User:Alecf|Alecf]] ([[User talk:Alecf|talk]]) 17:19, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
::Replied to you at [[Wikitravel_talk:Edit_war]] since I'm rather baffled by your imputed suggestion that we should scrap at least one of our five [[Wikitravel:Policies_and_guidelines#General_policy| foundation policies]] that: "Text and images should follow style guidelines. With rare exception, text and images should follow our Manual of style. Exceptions should gain wide consensus; in cases of controversy, the style manual trumps."  --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 22:47, 21 November 2012 (EST)
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::The quote you included contains the words "With rare exception."  That's why you need to discuss with the other party instead of edit warring with them to see whether it makes sense for this to be such an exception.  Cheers, [[User:JYolkowski|JYolkowski]] 19:06, 23 November 2012 (EST)
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==[[Wikitravel:Requested articles]]==
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:::The only proper way to do a roast at home is to sous vide and then sear at the end. Once I tried this method, I never went back.  --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 12:53, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
I boldly started [[Wikitravel:Requested articles]] for listing links to articles that would be useful, but do not yet exist. Would it be useful for the development of Wikitravel? /[[User:Blist|Blist]] 13:14, 22 November 2012 (EST)
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:Why not? --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 14:27, 22 November 2012 (EST)
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=="add listing" defect==
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: As a Brit I can say that we have have adopted many former colonies food. I would say that Gastro Pubs are the way to go if you want something decent that like British food and they also tend to do craft beer if your willing to pay a bit more. Otherwise getting a curry is a good idea though it is very different than the stuff you get in India mind you. All food that was appropriated by the UK has been given a British makeover. --[[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]] ([[User talk:Wandering Roman|talk]]) 04:31, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
[http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel:Accommodation_listings&diff=next&oldid=1251767#Listing_order For a long while] we have had a policy of [[listing]]s being [[alphabet]]ically ordered unless there is a good reason not to.
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Unfortunately this is consistently and automatically buggered by the "add listing" option that appears in blue to the right of our standard section headings of "See", "Do", "Buy", "Eat", "Drink" and "Sleep" that always adds the new listing to the bottom of that particular section.
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:: This is great info!.  I'll be sure to try these awesome suggestion. --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 15:32, 27 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Is it time to change the listing order policy or recode the robot so that it understands alphabetic order? --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 16:34, 24 November 2012 (EST)
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== Good Sources for Banners? ==
  
==[[Colombia]]n pesos==
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Besides Flikr, where are good sites to find free for commercial use images? --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 11:53, 20 May 2016 (EDT)
There are many countries around the world that use the name "dollar" and the symbol "$" for their currency. Our [[$|usual policy]] is that<br />
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:[https://commons.wikimedia.org/ Wikimedia Commons] and [https://search.creativecommons.org/?q=indonesia Creative Commons] search. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 01:02, 22 May 2016 (EDT)
''Prices should be listed with the currency symbol that travellers will encounter, specifically the local formatting. The currency symbol should always be prefixed. Travellers should be able to assume that symbols used for multiple currencies (like $ or £) apply to the local currency. Do ''not'' use currency codes like "USD", "EUR", or "GBP" if the symbol is established.
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* $100 in [[Detroit]], not US$100, 100 USD or 100 dollars
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Thanks this is good info! --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 13:49, 23 May 2016 (EDT)
* $100 in [[Vancouver]], not CAD$100, 100 CAD or 100 dollars
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* $100 in [[Wellington]], not NZD$100, 100 NZD or 100 dollars
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* $100 in [[Canberra]], not AUD$100, 100 AUD or 100 dollars''<br />
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and I propose no change in respect of this.
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== Manizales and Pereira  ==
  
However, the currency of Colombia poses special dangers of inconsistency and confusion as exemplified in our [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Cartagena_%28Colombia%29&action=historysubmit&diff=1959307&oldid=1957758 Cartagena (Colombia)] article.
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We have almost the same content on the See section of two pages: [[Manizales#See|Manizales]] and [[Pereira#See|Pereira]]. Any experts of Colombia who can help? [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 10:35, 23 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Colombia is unusual in having an officially recognised currency symbol of "$" that (unlike Singapore, etc) is '''not''' actually used on their banknotes - where, instead, "pesos" is printed. Since prices in the tourist industry in Colombia are also often quoted in US$, <u>I propose that we use "'''pesos'''" instead of either the $ symbol or COP for Colombia currency.</u>
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== Re: Appearance of external links / Front-Linked listings ==
  
This is somewhat analogous to the "Baht or ฿" situation adjudicated at [[Wikitravel_talk:Currency]] but differs in that I propose using the plural "'''pesos'''" rather than "peso" since
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I am a new user and trying to find an answer to what I think is a simple question: What format should external links have? This is one of the most basic things that people would do in the wiki (adding links to sites) and yet I'm seeing an incongruity between formatting and policy. As it stands in the external links help page [http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:External_links] we should add labels to web pages and I'm fine with that, but then when I use the code for listings (e.g. " < sleep name="Test Listing" address="" phone="" fax="" url="" price="">Description.</sleep > " ) it automatically goes back to footnotes and I can't seem to change it.
#the peso is so minute as to be almost never encountered in the singular
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#that is the word (in Spanish) that appears on Colombian Banknotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_peso
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Does anyone disagree with my proposal?
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I would not bring this up if it was a recent issue but people have been talking about this (using / not using footnotes; replacing the number of the footnote with a nice icon [http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel_talk:Listings#web.2Femail_format]) since 2007 and yet the code is still doing its same old thing.
  
Discuss at [[Wikitravel_talk:Currency#Colombian_pesos]] rather than here, please! --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 15:21, 26 November 2012 (EST)
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As a new user, trying to add info to the site and then having to spend hours (trying to figure out what's going on with external links and why I can't get them to display in the way that I've been told to display them) seems very counter productive and demotivating. It makes me wonder how many other laymen have tried to make changes to pages and then just end up abandoning the whole thing cause guidelines don't match what's really going on and it all just takes to long to find an answer. Latest discussion I've seen about this, just makes it seem as if nothing is being changed and so what [http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel_talk:External_links#Question_re:_External_link_format]
  
:Nobody has raised any objections so I will now make the necessary policy change. --<sub>singapore</sub>[[User_talk:Singapore.Alice|<b><font color="#0000DD">A</font><font color="#0066FF">l</font><font color="#0099FF">i</font><font color="#00CCFF">c</font><font color="#00EEFF">e</font></b>]] 18:44, 30 November 2012 (EST)
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Similarly, the whole discussion about front linked listings has been going on since before 2005 [http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel_talk:External_links/Archive#Front-Linked_listings] with no clear resolution in the primary guides (help file) on formatting (from what I can see, correct me if I'm wrong). Whilst I at first preferred front links for their aesthetic and simplicity, reading other people's counterpoints make it clear why front links aren't a good idea: As stated by Texugo 21:52, 17 July 2007 (EDT) [http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel_talk:Listings#web.2Femail_format], he points out how some listings appear worse because they don't have hyperlinks or that having longer hyperlinks (thanks to the hyperlinked name being longer) would make them more likely to be clicked.
  
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If icons were to be used (a nice globe icon, easily recognizable as world wide web) this wouldn't need to be a discussion and the points raised would be resolved, using footnotes does solve the issue but people also complain about the aesthetics of it etc. [[User:Rhetorical|Rhetorical]] ([[User talk:Rhetorical|talk]]) 14:17, 23 May 2016 (EDT)
  
== Las Vegas ==
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== Uber/Lyft/Airbnb and the sharing economy ==
  
First of all, I want to apologize if this is the wrong place to post this, but right now I am so frustrated that my head is spinning.
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It's been a long time coming - WT doesn't have any formal guidelines on listing info about these kinds of services on the destination guides. We should figure this out because these services now play a major role in many travelers' lives.
  
When I was originally planning our family vacation to Las Vegas I used the WikiTravel website as a source of research for shows, attractions and places to stay. As a first time visitor to Las Vegas, the website seemed to be a prime resource providing a lot of useful information.
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Just some points to keep in mind:
 +
*we'd like to avoid an overage of AirBnB listings on the guides
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*we'd also really like to avoid people listing their personal Uber/lyft codes for their own gain
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*legality/availability of these services varies from destination to destination
  
We have since returned to Las Vegas several times and I absolutely love this destination and am planning to return many more times. 
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So do you all feel that we should have centralized page containing info about sharing services, or that the info should be on the destination guides themselves, or a combo of the two?
  
In anticipation of my return to Sin City in a few months I was going through my Vegas bookmarks and I noticed the Wikitravel entry. I remembered reading a few of the entertainment/shows entries and I realized that a few things didn't jive with what I had experienced in real life.
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Open floor for all ideas! [[User:IBcaldera|IBcaldera]] ([[User talk:IBcaldera|talk]]) 13:33, 24 May 2016 (EDT)
  
When I went back to the website to confirm my suspicions - Sure enough, there they were!
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Perhaps a good idea would be to share the pickup areas at certain airports.  I know LAX sometimes has uber pick up passengers at the departures area.--[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 15:24, 24 May 2016 (EDT)
Numerous inaccuries, for example:  
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Blue Man Group at the Venetian (they have since moved their show to the Monte Carlo)
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:I think a good place to start would be a discussion on how it compares to public transit in the city. Chicago is very condensed, but has its regarded L-Train, compared to Los Angeles, which is spread out and has a relatively poorly-developed mass transit system, even though, population-wise, the two cities are similarly sized. I had no trouble getting around on the L in Chicago, but I'm often forced to use Uber in LA.[[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 15:40, 24 May 2016 (EDT)
Bette Midler at Caesars Palace (her residency ended Jan. 2010)
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Lance Burton at the Monte Carlo (his residency ended in Sept. 2010)
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Fab Four Live at the V Theater in Planet Hollywood (the correct title of the show is Beatleshow!)
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Viva Elvis at the Aria (closed in August)
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Human Nature at the Imperial Palace (ended their residency in November, and the Imperial Palace is now know as the Quad)
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nowhere did it mention the residencies of:
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:: Uber/Lyft is just another type of taxi service network, and Airbnb is like a giant hotel chain. So it will be enough if the travellers know which city has these services. So I'm for a centralized page. If this info is to be put on the destination guides themselves, our articles may quickly be flooded with Uber/Lyft/Airbnb.  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 03:28, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
Elton at Caesars Palace (his residency has since ended but was current at the time)
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Shania Twain at Caesars Palace
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Celine Dion at Caesars Palace
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Rod Stewart at Caesars Palace
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Tim McGraw and Faith Hill at the Venetian
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these are the most glaring ommissions
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in addition:
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:::I think a short mention in a location article with regards to Uber would be a good addition, but without Uber links on every single page, that would not add value. Any traveler who wants to use these services easily can find their website, but like [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] says, if the service offers an advantage in a certain location, more info should be available in the article. With regards to AirBnB, this service is so "temporary", an owner may rent one season, but the next season he is not, making listings outdated quickly. I rather see special hotel accommodations listed (no chain hotels but the charming hidden gems). Often the accommodation listings are so standard at the moment. If we allow AirBnB listings then soon there will be other requests, like homeaway, ownersdirect etc etc. A centralized page would just become a long page with lots of listings and urls, does a traveler looking for some quick info while at a location check that page? Do we want all those links? A mention that certain services exist would be great, but a flood of new listings would not help I think. Part of this discussion we should probably also add Apps, which are now an important part of life, but links we have been removing a lot as well. What do we want to see, what don´t we want to see. Interesting discussion. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 09:53, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Comedy Shows had only 2 listings (2 listings?!?!? I couldn't believe this! Carrot Top and Sin City Comedy (the venue has since changed) are the only 2 comedy shows in ALL of Las Vegas???)
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::::I definitely wouldn’t want to see Airbnb listings. We already have to manage pages flooded with hotel listings, opening a door for Airbnb (and other similar services) would make things even more complicated and lead to endless discussions. It is such a widespread service that any traveller knows it, so in my opinion there is no need to add it, not even with a dedicated page. The thing about Uber and other similar taxi service is almost the same, but in some cities/areas it could be very useful as already explained. So, it’s ok to mention it but no links. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] mentioned Apps: this is another part of the story we should deal with, today there are many useful apps for travellers (and I’m not talking about taxis or accommodations). Some places of interest and public transports companies (National Rail in the UK for example) allow tourists to buy tickets via app: to mention such things in the articles would really benefit the travellers. [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 09:10, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
not listed were: Brad Garrett's Comedy Club, Louie Anderson, George Wallace, Big Al's Comedy Club, The Improv at Harrah's, Wolf's Comedy Den, Riviera Comedy Club etc. etc.
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Tribute Shows did not list:
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::::: We do have pages dedicated to hitch-hiking and it works pretty well, although it's of course more informal and free than any of the services mentioned, but the point is, our pages usually don't get polluted with hitch-hiking information. So why not having either one page per service for the entire world, one even one single special "sharing economy" page for the entire world? Given every system is pretty safe (coming with feedbacks and so on), while, for instance, in many places in this world hostels and taxis can be very tricky, it could be very benefical to travellers... And not bothering administrators so much, as everything would be on the same page... [[User:PierrB|PierrB]] ([[User talk:PierrB|talk]]) 11:48, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Frank Marino's Divas Las Vegas, MJ Live, Legends in Concert, Purple Reign: A Tribute to Prince, Dancing Queen, The Australian Bee Gees, Trent Carlini's the King, The Rat Pack is Back (there are currently over 4 Frank Sinatra and/or Rat Pack shows playing) etc. etc.
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Magic Shows did not list:
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::::: Adzas, that's a good point. An AirBnB can be rented out one week and then the owner can decide to never do it again. [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 14:12, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Jan Rouven, Mike Hammer, Nathan Burton, Seth Grabel, The Amazing Jonathon etc. etc.
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Impressionist/impersonation shows did not list:
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::::: Yes, airbnb wouldn't be a good choice! --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 15:54, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Gordie Brown and veteran impersonator Rich Little!
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You get the picture! The number of ommissions and innaccuracies was-and-is mind-boggling!
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:::::: Hey! Thank you for starting the discussion! Like many of you I'm opting for having one centralized page that could list sharing services for travellers. I would avoid adding individual listings for Airbnb because 1) They are temporary 2) There are just too many of them 3) if we start adding Airbnb services we would have to add other similar services like Couchsurfing which would flood our articles with listings. As for Uber, I believe we can just mention if Uber is available in a particular city. Cheers, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] ([[User talk:IBAlex|talk]]) 07:45, 27 May 2016 (EDT)
Considering that Wikitravel's Main Page proclaims that it is a "complete, up-to-date and reliable worldwide travel guide" this is unfathomable!
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At this point I decided to take it upon myself and sign up as a Wikitravel editor with the intention of becoming a "Las Vegas entertainment editor" of sorts and doing a thorough update of the "See" section (that's kind of funny actually).
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== Cannot edit my own user page ==
  
Anyway ...  
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Hi I am trying to edit my user page while logged in. I have just created an account so that might be the issue.
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Error is "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Dark Tower"
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Is there anyway this can be fixed?
  
I spent over a week researching and documenting the current shows as well as the concerts and special events (I'll get to this in a moment) ... and this is no mean feat ...
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--[[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]] ([[User talk:Wandering Roman|talk]]) 03:51, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
To verify information required me to consult the venue's website, the performer's website, the authorized ticket agent's website and in some cases some entertainment revue sites. (I subscribe to dozens of Las Vegas tourism and entertainment guides and websites.)
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Once I had compiled all the information, I went about adding the new entries to the appropriate categories and correcting any inaccuracies.  
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: Hi Wandering Roman, thank you for reaching out here. I've added a test message on your user page just now. Seems okay to me. Can you please try again (please blank my test message) now and let us know if you still have this error? Thank you!  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 04:19, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Once I was finished editing all the regular Las Vegas shows, I decided to tackle the concert listings knowing that this would be a very "hands on" endeavour requiring me to make edits on almost a daily basis.  
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::Sorry to say that it is still happening. Though I think there is a problem with the back end of the site. Have a look at the Abuse Log and you will see other people are having similar problems. http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:AbuseLog
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::Thanks for your help. Its very fast.
  
I created a sub-heading titled "Concerts/Special Events" with 2 sub-headings under that titled "1 Night Only" and "Limited Engagement". I then started to populate the lists in chronological order based on all the information I had.
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::--[[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]] ([[User talk:Wandering Roman|talk]]) 04:24, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
  
Halfway through listing the events for December I see a notice at the top of my screen saying that "there was a conflict with some of my listings etc. etc". Upon checking my User talk page I see a message that says this:
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:::Looking at the log more closely looks like it was miss-configured and that this has been a reoccurring problem since 2012, though in 2012 the problem was occurring under the filter named The Beaver. You may want to contact IBobi, the administrator to look at the filter list as from what I have read it can only be fixed by admin/bureaucrat groups on WikiTravel
"I had to delete your contribution on Las Vegas page because we do not post one time events/ attractions in destination articles. Best, IBAlex 20:19, 30 November 2012 (EST)"
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I could not believe what I was seeing!
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:::--[[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]] ([[User talk:Wandering Roman|talk]]) 04:52, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
  
To omit "1 night only" or "limited engagement" concerts/special events from a Las Vegas entertainment listings is a travesty! Las Vegas is truly the entertainment capital of the world and to ignore this by not including these listings is doing the reader a huge dis-service. I personally, would book travel based on several of these events alone and I know this to be true for many others. There has to be an exception made for Vegas ... the concerts, shows and special events are what Las Vegas is all about! That in itself is what makes Las Vegas a travel destination! You can't apply standard rules as there is no place on the planet like this!
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::::Hi, are you trying to add a certain link to your user page? The filter you are mentioning is blocking certain links, if you just add text you should be ok. Let us know what exactly you are trying to add ok? Thanks! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 05:43, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
  
This is a partial list of the concerts and special events for the month of December:
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:::::Sorry, Adzas I am not just trying to post some basic information about my self. There are no internal or external links. Thanks for the help tho.  
Aerosmith & Cheap Trick, ZZ Top, Megadeth, The Eagles, Red Hot Chili Peppers, The Black Keys, Pitbull, The Killers, The O'Jays, Jerry Seinfeld, the Wayans Brothers, The Eagles, Jeff Dunham, UFC 155, The Ultimate Fighter Finale, The National Rodeo Finals, American Country Awards, Three Dog Night, Restless Heart, Mannheim Steamroller, Trans-Siberian Orchestra, Train, Ron White, Bill Engvall, Dennis Miller & Bill O'Reilly, Journey & Loverboy, Merle Haggard, Lonestar, Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Márquez, Charlie Daniels Band, The Oak Ridge Boys, Randy Travis, LeAnn Rimes, 3 Doors Down & Daughtry, Moody Blues, Tanya Tucker, Travis Tritt, The Tragically Hip, Trace Adkins, Social Distortion, Dave Koz and many many more.
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So now, in addition to all the concert/special event listings being deleted, so are all my show updates and inclusions. All of my work is now GONE! Wiped out in one fell swoop by an all-knowing, all-mighty admin.  Hours and hours of work down the toilet!
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:::::--[[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]] ([[User talk:Wandering Roman|talk]]) 06:20, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
  
So, as of right now according to the Las Vegas WikiTravel page: Bette Midler, Lance Burton and Viva Elvis are still performing, while Shania Twain, Rod Stewart, Tim McGraw & Faith Hill and Celine Dion are not. Carrot Top and Sin City Comedy are the only 2 comedy shows in town. Dozens and dozens of shows and venues do not exist and there are no concerts playing in town at all whatsoever.
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::::::I have disabled the Dark Tower abuse filter. Thank you for the heads-up, [[User:Wandering Roman|Wandering Roman]]! [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
  
It's a shame.
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== Electric vehicle charging stations on Wikitravel/Autonomous vehicles for the future? ==
  
: I restored your edits; IMHO the deletion was bad judgement by an inexperienced admin. On the other hand, she had a point; WT is a travel guide; some of your listings may be too short-term to bother with and should be deleted as unmaintainable. Dicussion should go on the article's talk page. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 20:03, 1 December 2012 (EST)
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With these types of cars becoming increasingly popular and fully autonomous vehicles quickly becoming reality, should things such as charging stations be listed?  In the future, what about autonomous pickup/dropoff locations as well? --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 12:48, 2 June 2016 (EDT)
  
I have committed myself to maintaining the short term edits. By tomorrow morning the concert listings dated December 1 will have been deleted. And so on and so on. I can appreciate how short-term listings might be termed "unmaintainable" by conventional thinking ... but ... Las Vegas is far from being a "conventional" travel destination. Thank you  [[User:Briank58|Briank58]] 20:17, 1 December 2012 (EST)
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I for one hate driving with a passion especially in Los Angeles, the traffic hell of the universe. Charging stations wouldn't be useful listed on pages as they need specific address locations and individual city pages are too vague. [[User:Ibrshao|Ibrshao]] ([[User talk:Ibrshao|talk]])
  
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:I don´t know how many of those charging stations would be available in a location, I think a mention that charging stations are available would be beneficial, but individual listings I don´t think that would be needed, it would be like posting all petrol stations in a location. Just my thought.... [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 10:43, 3 June 2016 (EDT)
  
:Briank58- thank you for your notice. I would gladly address this problem. I am here to help users and I am open to any suggestions and discussions.
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:: True, posting them all would be indeed too much. --[[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 17:18, 6 June 2016 (EDT)
:Please know that your contribution on Las Vegas page is highly appreciated. I am glad to see that you understand that Wikitravel does not support short-time listings (especially 1 day listings) because it is difficult to maintain them. We do worry that when users post short-time listings on the site, they will not remove them once the listings become outdated. And this clearly is not beneficial for the site and the users... In this way, the site risks of becoming eventually cluttered with those outdated listings. That is why I removed your listings, leaving a message on your Talk Page to let you know that I did not mean anything bad. I was simply following the conventions.
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:However, when I see that you are willing to upkeep the listings and remove some of them on daily basis, I am fine with keeping them there. Again, your contribution is extremely valuable to Las Vegas site, thank you for that. Warm regards, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 13:32, 3 December 2012 (EST)
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== Why are the Orbitz ads appearing on non-logged in users? ==
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::: Did anyone see that news article about the guy taking up three whole charging spots? [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 12:59, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
  
''Disclaimer: I wrote the following without knowing that the feature was supposed to be opt-in''
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==New Update Today!==
: Case in point: [[Buenos Aires]], [[Hong Kong]], [[Paris]], and many other cities now have Orbitz banners in the header and the 'Get In' and 'Sleep' sections.
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: I understand the need for more funding, but nobody will ever say "Oh, how convenient, now I can buy plane tickets while in the middle of reading a Wikitravel article". On its current state is useless at the best, and obtrusive at its worst.
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Woohoo, hopefully everything goes smooth! [[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 16:36, 7 June 2016 (EDT)
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:'''So far, so good''' I haven't noticed any problems. Has anything been reported so far? [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 09:42, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
  
: Sometimes this is extremely ridiculous: just look at the article on [[Orania]].
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:Luckily not too many issues with the switch! [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 18:06, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
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::Just a bit of spam but not too bad! [[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 18:13, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
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:::I do an edit, and write an edit summary, but when I try to save it a pop-up asks me to write a another, separate edit summary. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 04:45, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
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::::Well, sometimes it does it, but not always. When it happens, the heading of the pop-up is <nowiki>"Publish to {{SITENAME}}"</nowiki>. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 04:47, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
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:::::'''Shared''' This should definitely be posted to the Pub on Shared. That's a serious bug. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 09:27, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
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::::::OK. thanks. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 05:46, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
  
For those reasons I think anyway that having it as an opt-out is a terrible idea. [[Special:Contributions/190.189.234.13|190.189.234.13]] 22:57, 1 December 2012 (EST)
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==Space travel==
:The announcement is in the section above at [[#Travel booking tool!]]. <font color="#339989">–[[User:Sumone10154|'''<font color="#339989">sumone10154</font>''']]<sup>([[User talk:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">talk</font>]])</sup></font> 23:41, 1 December 2012 (EST)
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When it becomes available at what price point will you partake in space travel. Not the near earth orbit/ vomit comet stuff but actually leave the atmosphere to the moon type stuff. 10 thousand? 20 thousand?  [[User:Ibrshao|Ibrshao]] ([[User talk:Ibrshao|talk]])
  
::I know. But according to that announcement,
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:Honestly, I can't even handle rollercoasters, so I'm not sure how well I'd do when pulling the Gs of space flight. And I mean, there's enough stuff ''on'' the planet I need to see [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 14:02, 9 June 2016 (EDT)
:::If you log in to your Wikitravel account, you will need to go to your *preferences* in order to turn on this booking tool -- you will not see it at all unless you turn it on.
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::These ads are appearing to me as a non-logged-in user, and the only way I found to disable them is
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to log-in into an account, clearly making it opt-out.
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::Was that change intentional? In that case it's a horrible decision IMO. [[Special:Contributions/190.189.234.13|190.189.234.13]] 11:37, 2 December 2012 (EST)
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:This was discussed about a year ago and is one of the reasons why it is so quiet here. However ignoring question of whether a booking engine should be there, I find the implementation poor.
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:I think once the technology allows the cost to be more reasonable, I'll be willing to spend 1k [[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 13:51, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
:I tried the booking banner from the [[Aberdeen]] page, trying to find a flight to there from Manchester. The article said that there were direct flights, so that was what I was expecting to be offered, but I was only offered a flight via Amsterdam, requiring an overnight stay and costing $407 return. But at Orbitz's own site, I was offered direct flights on the same dates for $184 return. There is also no easy way of finding out who Orbitz is, or of changing the currency from dollars.
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:Trying it on [[Orania]] gave the suggestion of Alexandria, which is a long distance away - the booking engine must know the correct airport for every page that it appears on.
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:It would be better to have the booking banner on the right hand side, above the adverts. This also gives the possibility of getting local bus and train companies to offer booking. I doubt that I will be looking to book a flight here, but a way of booking the bus from the airport would be useful. [[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] 18:18, 3 December 2012 (EST)
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::Hi Alasdair -- I am looking into why the results are different. I tried the same search and got the same results you did. We're still working the kinks out and hope it can be a very useful tool indeed for our Wikitravelers. Please let me know if you see anything else that is suboptimal. Cheers, --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:02, 7 December 2012 (EST)
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== If you were stranded alone on any island in the world, which island would you want it would be? ==
  
==New administrators nomination==
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Imagine all islands are now deserted, left only with the remaining amenities left behind by its former dwellers. (think zombie apocalypse) [[User:IBrobin|IBrobin]] ([[User talk:IBrobin|talk]]) 13:39, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
We have a new nomination for the administrator on Wikitravel. Please have a look at [[Wikitravel:Administrator nominations|Administrator nominations]]. Best, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 20:34, 3 December 2012 (EST)
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== Town of Rochester, New York ==
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:I'd have to go with the old standard: Hawaii. Lots of rain, lots of sun, great views. I can think of worse places to spend the rest of my life (although hopefully a few other people can stop by, so it's not so lonely haha). [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 17:14, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
  
There is Town of Rochester (Ulster County) [http://www.ulstertourism.info/] in New York State which is different from the larger, more familiar City of Rochester (Monroe County) in New York State. How would I add (name) the Town of Rochester here? The two Rochesters are over a hundred miles apart, not related at all. [[User:Gamweb|gamweb]] 18:10, 8 December 2012 (EST)
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:Judging by google earth, Anuta island (part of the solomon islands) looks pretty cozy! [[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 19:19, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
* Reference: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochester,_Ulster_County,_New_York] Wikipedia
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: Hi Gamweb! Thank you for your message. The best way is to create a page for Town of Rochester from the scratch since it doesn't exist here. Please have a look [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Town_of_Rochester&action=edit&redlink=1]. You would need to select the best template and just [[ Wikitravel: Plunge forward| plunge forward]]. Don't worry if you don't know how to fill out all the sections- someone will be along to help with it later! Once the page is created, we would need to create a '''Disambiguation Page''', similar to [[Boston (disambiguation)| this one]] so that nobody will get confused with the destination. Please let me know if there is anything else i can help with. Greetings, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 13:42, 10 December 2012 (EST)
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:The Americas please!!!!!!  [[User:Ibrshao|Ibrshao]] ([[User talk:Ibrshao|talk]]) 17:45, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
  
::There is already a disambiguation page at [[Rochester]]. I would suggest [[Rochester_(Ulster_County)]] might be best, county names are often used when there is more than one place of the same name in a state / country. But it worth asking "what do people say locally?", when buying a bus ticket to the town from the other side of the state, as this may suggest a better name. [[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] 18:47, 10 December 2012 (EST)
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== Banner photographs ==
  
:::Nice!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:49, 10 December 2012 (EST)
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I just want to ask - what is the criteria for the banner photographs and what they can be of for the articles on Wikitravel? The main thing I noted was a banner photo of the wrong place, as I noted on the talk page! [[User:Wetter88|Wetter88]] ([[User talk:Wetter88|talk]]) 12:17, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
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:'''Banners''' Wetter88, there are no hard and fast rules, except for the size and ratio of the photo. It's best to choose something engaging and illustrative and those can change over time if someone finds a better one. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 16:00, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
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::I noticed that the banner picture on the [[Woking]] article wasn't in Woking, so I was wondering whether this meant it was invalid as it was the wrong place! [[User:Wetter88|Wetter88]] ([[User talk:Wetter88|talk]]) 02:47, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
 +
:::Hi, you're right, the [[Woking]] banner is wrong. We will create a new corrected one very soon (unless you want to try and create a new one). Thanks, [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 05:02, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
 +
::::'''Accuracy''' It's definitely better to have a photo that really represents the place you're going. Personally, I'm not very hung up on it, especially if the photo is of somewhere nearby or comparable. This example is just a busy train station--honestly, I don't think anyone will be disappointed if he gets to Woking and this scene isn't there. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 09:53, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
  
== [[Wikitravel:Requested articles| Requested articles]]==
+
== Fitness Around the World ==
User Blist has recently created a [[Wikitravel:Requested articles| page]] with a list of requested articles that still don't exist on Wikitravel. Please [[Wikitravel: Plunge_forward| plunge forward]] and help us grow! Looking forward to your contributions! Best, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 18:13, 11 December 2012 (EST)
+
I'm US-based, and (especially in California) we have a major fitness sub-culture. Weightlifting, yoga, running, and the outdoors are all very big here. I was wondering about the fitness cultures of other countries and how those display themselves. Like here, running and physique are definitely the major areas, then probably yoga. What about Europe? Asia? How do different countries express their physicality? [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 17:51, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
  
== New Page - Kerhonkson ==
+
:I like the British way-- http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fitness/2011/01/fitness_for_foreigners.html [[User:Ibrshao|Ibrshao]] ([[User talk:Ibrshao|talk]]) 17:57, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
  
I just created new page for [[Kerhonkson]], New York. It's been a while since I made a new page. Please look it over to see what's missing. (Auxiliary wikilinks) [[User:Gamweb|gamweb]] 22:48, 12 December 2012 (EST)
+
::Interesting article, to be sure! [[User:IBJoel|IBJoel]] ([[User talk:IBJoel|talk]]) 17:01, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
: Great job! Thank you! I needed to change the headline "Go next" to "Get out" because that's still the proper name Wikitravel uses for this section. We would be changing this headline soon throughout all the articles. I'm looking forward to more contributions from you. Thank you again! Cheers! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 15:10, 13 December 2012 (EST)
+
::Sorry about that. I was working in "parallel" with another travel site at the same time (enough said). [[User:Gamweb|gamweb]] 16:04, 13 December 2012 (EST)
+
:::No worries. Thank you! [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] 16:35, 13 December 2012 (EST)
+

Latest revision as of 21:05, 22 June 2016

The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.
wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub

Wikitravel Upgrade[edit]

Our new site upgrade has just launched!
We're happy to announce that Wikitravel has been updated to the latest version of mediawiki. Over the next few hours, the admin team will be testing the site as much as possible to catch and fix any bugs resulting from the update. We'd appreciate any help we can get! Simply report bugs to on our shared site.

Some of the new changes include:

  • an updated edit toolbar
  • an updated user toolbar
  • notifications
  • table of contents on banners now have dropdowns with sub-sections
  • multimedia galleries on every page
  • a new, easy to use photo upload form that will be live shortly
  • many small performance and efficiency changes

Site performance maybe a little weird over the next few days as we stabilize the newest release, thanks for being patient!


ideas for group travel, family that does not get together much[edit]

HI What a fabulous project! I cannot believe I never found this before. Some of my family wants to get together more often and we are trying to organize a group trip, 5 or so days, prepaid food options, lots of activities, and I don't think we care where we go but some need to keep the costs down. Most of the family is in the north east. Any one have suggestions about places to go, cruises to try, etc.

Hi there! If I had to make a suggestion, I would say Vermont! It's beautiful there and relatively less costly than a lot of places in New England. IBJoel (talk) 15:59, 15 June 2016 (EDT)
Hello! Ignore having family trips during Spring months March and April because of Spring Breakers. Cabo San Lucas has many beach hotels with cheap all-inclusive packages and fun water attractions for the kids. Puerto Peñasco aka Rocky Point has many affordable beach houses to rent. Catalina Island is chalk full of family visitors and easily noticeable activities all along the beach. I suggest renting a house or condo near the main city of Avalon. Catalina is my top preference for you because of the darling city and the family-friendly environment. IBrobin (talk) 16:12, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Uploading the pictures[edit]

Could someone help me to upload the pictures? I click "Upload a picture" and I am automatically log out. What is the reason and how to avoid it? —The preceding comment was added by M.izhyk (talkcontribs)

Hi, when you click "Upload a picture" it automatically redirects you to Wikitravel Shared, where all pictures need to be uploaded. Once uploaded there you can then add them to the articles. A separate account is needed so just create one there and follow the instructions on the site. If you have any further questions, please let us know, your edits are appreciated! Thank you Adzas (talk) 05:59, 6 March 2016 (EST)

question about travel, concerning the people leaving the middle east and going to europe[edit]

does the migration of people affect the travel industry? Are all the hotels/hostels full, etc? 56.0.84.26 16:39, 17 March 2016 (EDT)

Hello! have no worry: migrants don't affect the travel industry as they don't stay at hostels and don't eat at restaurants. Actually, on the contrary, there is plenty of space and prices may even tend to be cheaper. (Talking about Southern Europe, where you should head to for great holidays ;) ) PierrB (talk) 20:07, 14 May 2016 (EDT)

San Francisco.[edit]

There appears to be no main page for San Francisco. I can't remember having ever seen one, but I'm pretty sure there must have been one at one point so it looks as if it's been deleted. There are still district pages there (eg San_Francisco/Tenderloin) but no main page. Can it be restored?

--Ruudboy (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2016 (EDT)

Hi, thanks for noticing that, I am not sure what happened but the page has been restored now. Thanks again for letting us know. Adzas (talk) 11:03, 24 March 2016 (EDT)

Updates: April 2016[edit]

A new month means new featured pages on the home page!

Stroopwafel
Berlin is April's Destination of the Month - this major city was long overdue for it's rightful title.
Huangshan takes its place as our pick for Off the Beaten Path - its wondrous peaks have captivated Chinese artists for centuries.
Stonehenge is the Landmark of the Month - its well-known around the world and a natural pick.
Persian is our Language of the Month - Every bit as regal as it is ancient.
Our itinerary pick is Hong Kong in a day. Should you be so lucky to be in the area, this guide can help you see it all.
The Cuisine of the Month is Dutch. They have a sweet tooth and so do we!

New features will go up in May, feel free to make suggestions in this thread. The articles should have a healthy amount of content and several pictures! IBcaldera (talk) 19:07, 1 April 2016 (EDT)

Huangshan certainly deserves a spot here. It's not only one of the best-known scenic attractions, but also a cultural icon throughout Chinese history. It would be nice if other well-know mountains such as Mount Tai and Huashan are featured too. 123.139.106.245 07:56, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
The landmark of the month blurb has a typo. Or at least it's missing a word. It says: "There are many theories and questions surrounding." ... which isn't a complete sentence. Probably needs the word "it" at the end. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 11:35, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
Hi, thanks for noticing the typo in the Stonehenge blurn, I just corrected it. Adzas (talk) 11:57, 2 April 2016 (EDT)
Great to see the Dutch Cuisine of the Month! Me being dutch but living in Portugal, I do miss our food sometimes. Eating a liquorice as we speak, brought by guests who arrived....... Adzas (talk) 12:03, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

How to request edits to templates?[edit]

Is there a way to "ping" someone with template editing privileges? On other wikis, they usually have some kind of "request edit" template that gets stuck on the talk page with a description of the requested change, but I wasn't able to find the equivalent here on wikitravel.

The IPA template has an extra line break before the <noinclude> which is causing funny formatting when transcluded. If you include a space after using the template, then the line break forces the space to a new line, causing it to preformat the subsequent text. This is causing the My Son page to render oddly.

Can someone fix the template (just remove the line break between the close parenthesis and the <noinclude>), and perhaps add some information somewhere accessible on how to request a change to a template? Thanks, Mukkakukaku (talk) 12:04, 2 April 2016 (EDT)

Fixed Mukkakukaku, this is the best place to ping someone. Thanks for your sharp eye. Koavf (talk) 10:07, 3 April 2016 (EDT)

English food?[edit]

I'm travelling to the UK in the fall, mostly staying in Southampton and London. How's the food? I've heard mixed things from friends. IBJoel (talk) 15:28, 12 May 2016 (EDT)

I have tried english food before while I was in london. I found it to be shallow and pedantic. --Tyen (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
Ok, all joking aside. While I didn't eat at any fancy restaurants, I found it to be a bit boring and very salty, just wasn't for me. Best of luck on your trip! --Tyen (talk) 11:57, 13 May 2016 (EDT)
South Asian I've heard that the best South Asian food in the world is in the UK (I have never been)--look for Indian restaurants if you like that type of cuisine. And who doesn't? Koavf (talk) 08:29, 14 May 2016 (EDT)
Great tip, I'll have to remember this next time I'm on the others side of the pond! --Tyen (talk) 14:32, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Basically English food is all co-opted from their historic colonies. I wouldn't be surprised if Hong Kong food is very popular. --Ibrshao (talk) 14:34, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
Interesting Ibrshao, I'll have to try more than just fish and chips and full english breakfast! --Tyen (talk) 16:49, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Thanks Koavf! I've heard the same, especially about curry! And while I'm kind of a wimp when it comes to spice, I still suffer through it for good Indian. A friend from Gujurat used to make great dinners. Any experience on the more "traditional" UK stuff? IBJoel (talk) 14:47, 16 May 2016 (EDT)
The classic british fish and chips always tends to be better from seaside towns, particularly those with an active fishing fleet. For the full experience ensure you takeaway and eat out of the paper wrapping. Alecf (talk) 16:47, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Alecf, in the newspaper, right?! Any word on roasts? I'm American and I know they're popular here, but I'm going to take a stab and say they're a little different on the other side of the pond. IBJoel (talk) 16:52, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
Haha yeah, its not printed newspaper, just the same kind of paper. Roast dinners are difficult because a lot of them are mass produced and bland, not your classic home cooked job. Probably have best luck for a roast at a good independent gastro pub. Too many pubs these days have become chains though. Alecf (talk) 17:19, 18 May 2016 (EDT)
The only proper way to do a roast at home is to sous vide and then sear at the end. Once I tried this method, I never went back. --Tyen (talk) 12:53, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
As a Brit I can say that we have have adopted many former colonies food. I would say that Gastro Pubs are the way to go if you want something decent that like British food and they also tend to do craft beer if your willing to pay a bit more. Otherwise getting a curry is a good idea though it is very different than the stuff you get in India mind you. All food that was appropriated by the UK has been given a British makeover. --Wandering Roman (talk) 04:31, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
This is great info!. I'll be sure to try these awesome suggestion. --Tyen (talk) 15:32, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

Good Sources for Banners?[edit]

Besides Flikr, where are good sites to find free for commercial use images? --Tyen (talk) 11:53, 20 May 2016 (EDT)

Wikimedia Commons and Creative Commons search. Koavf (talk) 01:02, 22 May 2016 (EDT)

Thanks this is good info! --Tyen (talk) 13:49, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Manizales and Pereira[edit]

We have almost the same content on the See section of two pages: Manizales and Pereira. Any experts of Colombia who can help? GiulioC (talk) 10:35, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Re: Appearance of external links / Front-Linked listings[edit]

I am a new user and trying to find an answer to what I think is a simple question: What format should external links have? This is one of the most basic things that people would do in the wiki (adding links to sites) and yet I'm seeing an incongruity between formatting and policy. As it stands in the external links help page [1] we should add labels to web pages and I'm fine with that, but then when I use the code for listings (e.g. " < sleep name="Test Listing" address="" phone="" fax="" url="" price="">Description.</sleep > " ) it automatically goes back to footnotes and I can't seem to change it.

I would not bring this up if it was a recent issue but people have been talking about this (using / not using footnotes; replacing the number of the footnote with a nice icon [2]) since 2007 and yet the code is still doing its same old thing.

As a new user, trying to add info to the site and then having to spend hours (trying to figure out what's going on with external links and why I can't get them to display in the way that I've been told to display them) seems very counter productive and demotivating. It makes me wonder how many other laymen have tried to make changes to pages and then just end up abandoning the whole thing cause guidelines don't match what's really going on and it all just takes to long to find an answer. Latest discussion I've seen about this, just makes it seem as if nothing is being changed and so what [3]

Similarly, the whole discussion about front linked listings has been going on since before 2005 [4] with no clear resolution in the primary guides (help file) on formatting (from what I can see, correct me if I'm wrong). Whilst I at first preferred front links for their aesthetic and simplicity, reading other people's counterpoints make it clear why front links aren't a good idea: As stated by Texugo 21:52, 17 July 2007 (EDT) [5], he points out how some listings appear worse because they don't have hyperlinks or that having longer hyperlinks (thanks to the hyperlinked name being longer) would make them more likely to be clicked.

If icons were to be used (a nice globe icon, easily recognizable as world wide web) this wouldn't need to be a discussion and the points raised would be resolved, using footnotes does solve the issue but people also complain about the aesthetics of it etc. Rhetorical (talk) 14:17, 23 May 2016 (EDT)

Uber/Lyft/Airbnb and the sharing economy[edit]

It's been a long time coming - WT doesn't have any formal guidelines on listing info about these kinds of services on the destination guides. We should figure this out because these services now play a major role in many travelers' lives.

Just some points to keep in mind:

  • we'd like to avoid an overage of AirBnB listings on the guides
  • we'd also really like to avoid people listing their personal Uber/lyft codes for their own gain
  • legality/availability of these services varies from destination to destination

So do you all feel that we should have centralized page containing info about sharing services, or that the info should be on the destination guides themselves, or a combo of the two?

Open floor for all ideas! IBcaldera (talk) 13:33, 24 May 2016 (EDT)

Perhaps a good idea would be to share the pickup areas at certain airports. I know LAX sometimes has uber pick up passengers at the departures area.--Tyen (talk) 15:24, 24 May 2016 (EDT)

I think a good place to start would be a discussion on how it compares to public transit in the city. Chicago is very condensed, but has its regarded L-Train, compared to Los Angeles, which is spread out and has a relatively poorly-developed mass transit system, even though, population-wise, the two cities are similarly sized. I had no trouble getting around on the L in Chicago, but I'm often forced to use Uber in LA.IBJoel (talk) 15:40, 24 May 2016 (EDT)
Uber/Lyft is just another type of taxi service network, and Airbnb is like a giant hotel chain. So it will be enough if the travellers know which city has these services. So I'm for a centralized page. If this info is to be put on the destination guides themselves, our articles may quickly be flooded with Uber/Lyft/Airbnb. --Binbin (talk) 03:28, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
I think a short mention in a location article with regards to Uber would be a good addition, but without Uber links on every single page, that would not add value. Any traveler who wants to use these services easily can find their website, but like IBJoel says, if the service offers an advantage in a certain location, more info should be available in the article. With regards to AirBnB, this service is so "temporary", an owner may rent one season, but the next season he is not, making listings outdated quickly. I rather see special hotel accommodations listed (no chain hotels but the charming hidden gems). Often the accommodation listings are so standard at the moment. If we allow AirBnB listings then soon there will be other requests, like homeaway, ownersdirect etc etc. A centralized page would just become a long page with lots of listings and urls, does a traveler looking for some quick info while at a location check that page? Do we want all those links? A mention that certain services exist would be great, but a flood of new listings would not help I think. Part of this discussion we should probably also add Apps, which are now an important part of life, but links we have been removing a lot as well. What do we want to see, what don´t we want to see. Interesting discussion. Adzas (talk) 09:53, 25 May 2016 (EDT)
I definitely wouldn’t want to see Airbnb listings. We already have to manage pages flooded with hotel listings, opening a door for Airbnb (and other similar services) would make things even more complicated and lead to endless discussions. It is such a widespread service that any traveller knows it, so in my opinion there is no need to add it, not even with a dedicated page. The thing about Uber and other similar taxi service is almost the same, but in some cities/areas it could be very useful as already explained. So, it’s ok to mention it but no links. Adzas mentioned Apps: this is another part of the story we should deal with, today there are many useful apps for travellers (and I’m not talking about taxis or accommodations). Some places of interest and public transports companies (National Rail in the UK for example) allow tourists to buy tickets via app: to mention such things in the articles would really benefit the travellers. GiulioC (talk) 09:10, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
We do have pages dedicated to hitch-hiking and it works pretty well, although it's of course more informal and free than any of the services mentioned, but the point is, our pages usually don't get polluted with hitch-hiking information. So why not having either one page per service for the entire world, one even one single special "sharing economy" page for the entire world? Given every system is pretty safe (coming with feedbacks and so on), while, for instance, in many places in this world hostels and taxis can be very tricky, it could be very benefical to travellers... And not bothering administrators so much, as everything would be on the same page... PierrB (talk) 11:48, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Adzas, that's a good point. An AirBnB can be rented out one week and then the owner can decide to never do it again. IBJoel (talk) 14:12, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Yes, airbnb wouldn't be a good choice! --Tyen (talk) 15:54, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Hey! Thank you for starting the discussion! Like many of you I'm opting for having one centralized page that could list sharing services for travellers. I would avoid adding individual listings for Airbnb because 1) They are temporary 2) There are just too many of them 3) if we start adding Airbnb services we would have to add other similar services like Couchsurfing which would flood our articles with listings. As for Uber, I believe we can just mention if Uber is available in a particular city. Cheers, IBAlex (talk) 07:45, 27 May 2016 (EDT)

Cannot edit my own user page[edit]

Hi I am trying to edit my user page while logged in. I have just created an account so that might be the issue. Error is "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Dark Tower" Is there anyway this can be fixed?

--Wandering Roman (talk) 03:51, 26 May 2016 (EDT)

Hi Wandering Roman, thank you for reaching out here. I've added a test message on your user page just now. Seems okay to me. Can you please try again (please blank my test message) now and let us know if you still have this error? Thank you! --Binbin (talk) 04:19, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Sorry to say that it is still happening. Though I think there is a problem with the back end of the site. Have a look at the Abuse Log and you will see other people are having similar problems. http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:AbuseLog
Thanks for your help. Its very fast.
--Wandering Roman (talk) 04:24, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Looking at the log more closely looks like it was miss-configured and that this has been a reoccurring problem since 2012, though in 2012 the problem was occurring under the filter named The Beaver. You may want to contact IBobi, the administrator to look at the filter list as from what I have read it can only be fixed by admin/bureaucrat groups on WikiTravel
--Wandering Roman (talk) 04:52, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Hi, are you trying to add a certain link to your user page? The filter you are mentioning is blocking certain links, if you just add text you should be ok. Let us know what exactly you are trying to add ok? Thanks! Adzas (talk) 05:43, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
Sorry, Adzas I am not just trying to post some basic information about my self. There are no internal or external links. Thanks for the help tho.
--Wandering Roman (talk) 06:20, 26 May 2016 (EDT)
I have disabled the Dark Tower abuse filter. Thank you for the heads-up, Wandering Roman! IBobi (talk) 15:56, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

Electric vehicle charging stations on Wikitravel/Autonomous vehicles for the future?[edit]

With these types of cars becoming increasingly popular and fully autonomous vehicles quickly becoming reality, should things such as charging stations be listed? In the future, what about autonomous pickup/dropoff locations as well? --Tyen (talk) 12:48, 2 June 2016 (EDT)

I for one hate driving with a passion especially in Los Angeles, the traffic hell of the universe. Charging stations wouldn't be useful listed on pages as they need specific address locations and individual city pages are too vague. Ibrshao (talk)

I don´t know how many of those charging stations would be available in a location, I think a mention that charging stations are available would be beneficial, but individual listings I don´t think that would be needed, it would be like posting all petrol stations in a location. Just my thought.... Adzas (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2016 (EDT)
True, posting them all would be indeed too much. --Tyen (talk) 17:18, 6 June 2016 (EDT)
Did anyone see that news article about the guy taking up three whole charging spots? IBJoel (talk) 12:59, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

New Update Today![edit]

Woohoo, hopefully everything goes smooth! Tyen (talk) 16:36, 7 June 2016 (EDT)

So far, so good I haven't noticed any problems. Has anything been reported so far? Koavf (talk) 09:42, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
Luckily not too many issues with the switch! IBJoel (talk) 18:06, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
Just a bit of spam but not too bad! Tyen (talk) 18:13, 8 June 2016 (EDT)
I do an edit, and write an edit summary, but when I try to save it a pop-up asks me to write a another, separate edit summary. Nurg (talk) 04:45, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
Well, sometimes it does it, but not always. When it happens, the heading of the pop-up is "Publish to {{SITENAME}}". Nurg (talk) 04:47, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
Shared This should definitely be posted to the Pub on Shared. That's a serious bug. Koavf (talk) 09:27, 14 June 2016 (EDT)
OK. thanks. Nurg (talk) 05:46, 15 June 2016 (EDT)

Space travel[edit]

When it becomes available at what price point will you partake in space travel. Not the near earth orbit/ vomit comet stuff but actually leave the atmosphere to the moon type stuff. 10 thousand? 20 thousand? Ibrshao (talk)

Honestly, I can't even handle rollercoasters, so I'm not sure how well I'd do when pulling the Gs of space flight. And I mean, there's enough stuff on the planet I need to see IBJoel (talk) 14:02, 9 June 2016 (EDT)
I think once the technology allows the cost to be more reasonable, I'll be willing to spend 1k Tyen (talk) 13:51, 14 June 2016 (EDT)

If you were stranded alone on any island in the world, which island would you want it would be?[edit]

Imagine all islands are now deserted, left only with the remaining amenities left behind by its former dwellers. (think zombie apocalypse) IBrobin (talk) 13:39, 16 June 2016 (EDT)

I'd have to go with the old standard: Hawaii. Lots of rain, lots of sun, great views. I can think of worse places to spend the rest of my life (although hopefully a few other people can stop by, so it's not so lonely haha). IBJoel (talk) 17:14, 16 June 2016 (EDT)
Judging by google earth, Anuta island (part of the solomon islands) looks pretty cozy! Tyen (talk) 19:19, 20 June 2016 (EDT)
The Americas please!!!!!! Ibrshao (talk) 17:45, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

[edit]

I just want to ask - what is the criteria for the banner photographs and what they can be of for the articles on Wikitravel? The main thing I noted was a banner photo of the wrong place, as I noted on the talk page! Wetter88 (talk) 12:17, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

Banners Wetter88, there are no hard and fast rules, except for the size and ratio of the photo. It's best to choose something engaging and illustrative and those can change over time if someone finds a better one. Koavf (talk) 16:00, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
I noticed that the banner picture on the Woking article wasn't in Woking, so I was wondering whether this meant it was invalid as it was the wrong place! Wetter88 (talk) 02:47, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
Hi, you're right, the Woking banner is wrong. We will create a new corrected one very soon (unless you want to try and create a new one). Thanks, GiulioC (talk) 05:02, 22 June 2016 (EDT)
Accuracy It's definitely better to have a photo that really represents the place you're going. Personally, I'm not very hung up on it, especially if the photo is of somewhere nearby or comparable. This example is just a busy train station--honestly, I don't think anyone will be disappointed if he gets to Woking and this scene isn't there. Koavf (talk) 09:53, 22 June 2016 (EDT)

Fitness Around the World[edit]

I'm US-based, and (especially in California) we have a major fitness sub-culture. Weightlifting, yoga, running, and the outdoors are all very big here. I was wondering about the fitness cultures of other countries and how those display themselves. Like here, running and physique are definitely the major areas, then probably yoga. What about Europe? Asia? How do different countries express their physicality? IBJoel (talk) 17:51, 21 June 2016 (EDT)

I like the British way-- http://www.slate.com/articles/life/fitness/2011/01/fitness_for_foreigners.html Ibrshao (talk) 17:57, 21 June 2016 (EDT)
Interesting article, to be sure! IBJoel (talk) 17:01, 22 June 2016 (EDT)