Difference between revisions of "Wikitravel:Travellers' pub"

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The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
 
The '''Travellers' pub''' is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the [[Wikitravel:FAQ|FAQ]] and [[Wikitravel:Help|Help]] page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.  
  
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
 
Please add new questions '''at the bottom''' of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>) to it, but otherwise [[Wikitravel:plunge forward|plunge forward]]!
  
{{disclaimerbox|If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to that article.
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You can find Archived discussions here: '''[[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives|Travellers´pub Archives]]'''
 
 
If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [http://wikipedia.sourceforge.net/ Mediawiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
 
 
 
If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.
 
 
 
}}
 
 
 
<big>'''Please sweep the pub'''</big>
 
 
 
Keeping the Pub clean is a group effort. If we have too many conversations on this page, it will get too noisy and hard to read. If you see an old conversation (i.e. '''three months''' after the last comment in that discussion) that could or should be moved to a [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|talk page]], please do so, and note there that it has been swept in from the pub.
 
  
* A question regarding a destination article should be swept to the article discussion page
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{{disclaimerbox|*If you have a question or suggestion about a ''particular'' article, try [[Wikitravel:using talk pages|using talk pages]] to keep the discussion specific to ''that'' article.
* A discussion regarding a policy or the subject of an expedition can be swept to the policy or expedition discussion page
 
* A simple question asked by a user can be swept to that user's talk page, but consider if the documentation needs a quick update to make it clearer for the next user with the same question.
 
* A pointer to a discussion going on elsewhere, such as a notice of a star nomination or or a request to comment on another talk page, can be removed when it is two months old.  Any discussion that occurred in the pub can be swept to to where the main discussion took place.
 
  
Any discussions that do not fall into any of these categories, and are not of any special importance for posterity, should be archived to '''[[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives]]''' and removed from here. If you are not sure where to put a discussion, let it be—better to spend your efforts on those that you do know where to place.
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*If you are having a problem that you think has to do with the [https://mediawiki.org/ MediaWiki software], please post that on the [[:shared:Wikitravel Shared:Technical requests|Technical requests]] page on [[:shared:Main Page|Wikitravel Shared]] instead.
  
{{WikitravelDoc|collaboration}}
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*If you want to celebrate a significant contribution to Wikitravel by yourself or others, [[Wikitravel:Celebrate a contribution]] may be the place you are looking for.}}
  
 
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[[it:Wikitravel:Bar dei viaggiatori]]
 
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[[ja:Wikitravel:旅人の居酒屋]]
[[ko:Wikitravel:Travellers' pub]]
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[[ko:Wikitravel:사랑방]]
 
[[nl:Wikitravel:Reizigerscafé]]
 
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[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[zh:Wikitravel:旅行者茶馆]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
 
[[wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub]]
----
 
 
==API?==
 
 
I've resumed work on my [[Wikitravel:iTravelFree]] Android/iOS app - the next version will include Foursquare data as well as Wikitravel and Wikipedia - and its [http://itravelapp.appspot.com/map Wikitravel maps mash-up], and it occurred to me that some of the server-side stuff I do might be useful to others. In particular, I parse out Wikitravel pages into their constituent sections and listings, work out parent/child relationships using both breadcrumbs and internal links, convert addresses into lat/long coordinates, etc. It wouldn't be ''that'' much work for me to create a API that let developers access not just individual pages but individual sections and listings within pages, and the parent/child relationships between pages.
 
 
But it wouldn't be a trivial job either. And if a bunch of people wanted to use it extensively, the bandwidth costs would quickly become nontrivial. (I'm using Google App Engine, which ain't cheap.) So would anyone out there be interested in such an API? And if so, would it be a Creative Commons terms-of-service violation to charge its users enough to defray my costs for it? [[User:Rezendi|Rezendi]] 16:34, 2 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
: Although I think charging for the service would be entirely possible under the licence, I think the derived information would also be CC-BY-SA.  Arguably, it should be put back into the main guide.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 17:39, 2 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
==Spelling of [[Odisha]]/Orissa==
 
 
Hi, everyone. User Triseult has been editing every mention of the Indian state formerly known as Orissa to reflect a new official Indian government spelling. I appreciate his/her diligence but have doubts about his/her decision. We have not changed the spelling of [[Bangalore]] to Bengaluru, for example, because the latter spelling is still at least somewhat more common in English.
 
 
I have started a thread in [[Talk:Odisha]] and invite your participation.
 
 
All the best,
 
 
[[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 05:21, 4 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Tour listings - rules  ==
 
 
Hello,
 
I would like to find solution of one problem. I was trying to edit info about exploring [[Warsaw]] and information about tours was erased according to [http://wikitravel.org/en/Tour#Tour_listings]. I asked [[User:LtPowers]] to change back information because mentioned tours have got "'''value-added activity'''". Warsaw during WWII was destroyed in 90% and many interesting places are covered by modern buildings (eg.last pieces of Ghetto Wall). Whats more there is lack of book which describes Warsaw architecture in English. Thats why Wiki users should have access to erased information.
 
 
: A better place for this discussion would be [[Wikitravel_talk:Activity_listings]], the talk page for the policy in question. Have a look at older discussions there too.
 
 
: Please sign messages by typing four tildes( <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>); that adds date, time & your ID,like this: [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 05:53, 9 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:: I agree.  Users should have access to the information.  I suggest that you kindly put the information in Wikitravel.  It is a guide, then people will have the information.  We're here to provide open information, accessible and free.  Anyone can then use our free and open information on their site, for their tour, or for their personal information.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 06:32, 9 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:::Yes, perhaps this should be discussed at [[Wikitravel_talk:Activity_listings]], so please do raise your concerns and inquiry there if you wish. However do consider first if the tours being offered are something that requires the experienced and specialist guidance of someone such as that offered by the tour company. I note you have mentioned there is apparently a lack of readily available information, such as from a book. Please consider if a visitor to Warsaw can go and visit (or 'tour') these sites independently and without the support of guide services. If so then the Tour service is probably precluded from listing in the Wikitravel articles. Also of course have a good read of [[Wikitravel:Activity_listings|Activity listings]]. Consider what it is that the tours is offering. Does it offers something as a supplement to that a person would be able to sufficiently derive from a visit to the location on their own? Also consider if the tour operators are are a requisite to visit a certain area, this would include provisions where a guide is required by law or safety regulations of some kind, or where un-supervised access is denied without an official guide or supervisor.-- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 06:38, 9 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Outline status for travel topics ==
 
 
I'm a bit confused about the layout requirements and status determination of travel topics. Maybe I'm looking on the wrong page, but it seems to me that travel topic outlines are different from destination outlines, in that they will apparently be deleted if not edited for a year. Looking at [[Wikitravel:Travel_topic_status]], it seems that that warning is the only template outline travel topics can bear. Why is that? In practice, some outline travel topics have been given a "normal" outline template (e.g. [[Rock climbing]]) while others have been tagged "usable" despite being fairly short (e.g. [[Round the world overland]]). I imagine this might also be the result of people trying to get rid of the deletion warning, and indeed it it would be strange to delete these topics.
 
 
Now, I was trying to save [[windsurfing]] from deletion, but I'm unsure what that would require? There doesn't seem to be a set article template for such topics (and I would say that's a good thing), but what would it need to be usable and thus off the hook? Or should I give it just the standard outline status? [[User:Justme|Justme]] 06:39, 13 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
: IMO this is why we have the vfd process.  We won't vote to delete an article that is being developed, or has travel content.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 06:01, 14 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
::I get that, and I'm not worried that windsurfing will be deleted now, but the vfd is meant to evaluate individual cases, judging them based on policy and common practice. In principle, we try to develop articles without making use of the vdf. So that leaves my more general questions about why travel topic outlines are different from destination articles. If there's no explanation, I don't see why we wouldn't replace the "warning-this will be deleted if not edited for a year" template with the "normal" outline template. [[User:Justme|Justme]] 06:30, 14 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
::: You can look at the development of the policy here, [[Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy#Incomplete travel topics and itineraries]].
 
::: I kind of see your point.  I see this policy squarely aimed at "Visiting secondary sewage processing plants in Southern Europe with kids", type article, rather than a single sport or such.
 
::: Practically, however, the threshold for being "usable" is quite low.  If the article is usable, then apply the usable template.  If it really is an outline (headings, introduction, and no travel content) then it deserves to be considered for vfd after a year.
 
::: Despite of some of the comments on the vfd page, I think it is one of the most effective collaborations on the site.  It brings out the strongest arguments in content and policy, regularly rescues articles and images, and leads to policy development.  I don't think I've ever seen a vote that I'd consider removes useful travel content.
 
::: Would you have contributed to the windsurfing article if it hadn't been there, or would it have been a content-less disaster for the next decade? --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 23:09, 15 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
::::Thank you for that link, Inas, it explains the rationale :-) Although I don't believe it's a proper policy for mainstream travel topics (like windsurfing or any other sport) I can see why it's been developed and how it is useful. When the usable threshold is quite low, it shouldn't be much of a problem. A final question again though (sorry), a writer is in principle free to choose headings, right? There's no template? Thanks! [[User:Justme|Justme]] 08:10, 16 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
::::: Yes, the writer is in principle free to choose headings in a travel topic, however, there is a tendency to reuse existing headings where they fit, and use the imperative phrasing also.
 
::::: I think there are an infinite amount of things that could become travel topics, and a finite set of contributors.  We generally don't create a travel topic articles in advance of a contribution.  Unfortunately, in my view, that contribution can be a non-contribution - with no travel content, and we still tend to keep the article.  An equivalent non-contribution in an existing article may well be removed.  I see travel topics as needing curating during their early days if they are going to be successful, and if they are created by a passer-by and no regular contributor steps up, they languish.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 17:09, 16 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
 
==Navigation at the bottom?==
 
Err.. am I the only one not seeing the sidebar, as it's placed all the way at the bottom of the page? [[User:Justme|Justme]] 14:12, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 
: Incompatibility between latest firefox and this version of mediawiki.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 16:07, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 
::Oh :-( thanks... [[User:Justme|Justme]] 18:42, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 
::: I gave an explanation of this failure (Rendering failure with Firefox 9.0.1 above) and a solution some days ago. Nothing was done. The problem is to solved by IB. --[[User:Unger|Unger]] 09:15, 20 January 2012 (EST)
 
::::Did you report it on Shared?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:57, 20 January 2012 (EST)
 
:::::Appears this issue will resolve with the MW upgrade, which is in progress.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:08, 20 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
Never resolved, but I just updated to Firefox 10.0 and WT appears normal again. [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 15:48, 4 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Wikitravel sucks ==
 
 
So slow for the past couple of days.  A couple of attempts at editing, and then give up for the day.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 22:40, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
: Everything might be (possibly) fixed by the [[:shared:Tech:Upgrade to MediaWiki 1.17|Mediawiki upgrade]] scheduled for <s>September 2011</s> <s>November 2011</s> some time in 2012/2013.  In the mean time it seems frustration will be rampant... -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 22:56, 19 January 2012 (EST)
 
::Investigating the performance issue -- thank you for reporting.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:10, 20 January 2012 (EST)
 
:::Please report if there are still performance issues today; we had a bad crawler last week that may have slowed the site.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:04, 23 January 2012 (EST)
 
::::I still get frequent delays loading pages, though it usually speeds up as my session goes on.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 16:56, 23 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== [[Wernigerode]] ==
 
 
Please would someone peer review the [[Wernigerode]] article and let me know what is now essential to get it to guide standard. Many thanks in advance. --[[User:SaxonWarrior|SaxonWarrior]] 11:44, 21 January 2012 (EST)
 
:I've upgraded it to usable from outline.  For guide status, the See, Do, Buy, Eat, Drink, and Sleep sections need summaries, and the listings need actual prices.  Drink listings need descriptions, and I'd also like to see the Sleep listings fleshed out more.  Museums should be in "See" rather than "Do".  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:01, 21 January 2012 (EST)
 
::Thanks. I'll get to work. --[[User:SaxonWarrior|SaxonWarrior]] 03:32, 22 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== [[Saxon Ore Mountains]] ==
 
 
The above article name is a bit of a fudge forced to fit the existing country/state hierarchy. The range is known as the Ore Mountains and straddles the German/Czech border, the highest point being on the Czech side. It is a major tourist magnet. IMHO we need an article on the [[Ore Mountains]], but it will be an extra-hierarchical region. Can we cope with that? --[[User:SaxonWarrior|SaxonWarrior]] 02:14, 25 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:Extra-hierarchical regions are fine, the [[Harz Mountains]] already function as an extra-hierarchical region. --[[User:Globe-trotter|Globe-trotter]] 03:38, 25 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Adequate attribution? ==
 
I could swear I posted this here last night, but I can't find any trace of it...
 
 
Anyway, just asking because I'm not sure, but is [http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/01/23/citizen-kane-to-be-shown-at-hearst-castle/ this use of our image] properly attributed? It makes no mention of the creative commons license, etc. [[User:Texugo|texugo]] 15:57, 25 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Today's outage ==
 
 
We had an unplanned outage for several hours today due to a database malfunction. Site should now be behaving as normal; thank you for being patient while we resolved this.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:45, 25 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:Are you talking about these kinds of weird error messages, such as this one in the [[Kerch]] guide (the same one that was in the Johor Bahru guide before I did a hard edit to the previous version):
 
 
The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "(fixme, bug)".
 
 
This is usually caused by following an outdated diff or history link to a page that has been deleted.
 
 
If this is not the case, you may have found a bug in the software. Please report this to an administrator, making note of the URL.
 
 
:[[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 04:21, 26 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
::He's probably also referring to the "Wikitravel has a problem, try again in a few minutes" message that I got most of the day, yesterday. For the record, today the site seems to be very slow, but functioning. [[User:Justme|Justme]] 07:18, 26 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
The site appears to have become so slow over the last few days that it is now virtually unusable. It is near impossible to load a page, preview and edit or render an edit upload. Whats happened, rats chewed into the cabling? -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 09:54, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:::Hey Felix -- I'll have performance check with tech. Would you be interested in participating in the beta testing of the new Mediawiki upgrade?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 15:50, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 
::::Hi iBobi, will I need to have any needles stuck into me or take any tablets? If not then let me know the details and lets see if I can assist by participating. -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 18:08, 17 February 2012 (EST)
 
:::::Just email me at paul.obrien at internetbrands.com and we'll get you fixed up with testing credentials.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:54, 17 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
==Listings of individuals==
 
 
Hi, everyone. I'd like you to weigh in on this. My understanding has been that we don't allow listings of individuals, such as individual language tutors, trekkers, guides, translators, or drivers. But I'd like to refer you to a discussion taking place in [[Talk:La Paz]] and another that I just started at [[Talk:Banaue]]. I think we need to have a clear and well-thought-through policy on these matters. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 06:20, 28 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
: I think we these things we're guided by the number of potential listings, and the difficulty the traveller has in finding them.  If there is only one elephant driver in a town, and that's the only way to get from the station to the camp site apart from walking, then we list them.  Doesn't matter if they are an individual, or a franchise of Mega-Elephant.  If there are a few elephants, but the traveller needs to be able to contact them, and the method for doing so is not apparent, then may need to maintain a compact list of choices.  Style of listings, capacity of the organisation, traveller recommendations, etc, guide us in choosing who to list, but we'd rather list individuals than Elephant-Back-Travel booking office.  However, if there are many elephants such that they are ubiquitous, then we don't need to list.  A line of prose saying the elephants are outside the station, or some such suffices.
 
: The bottom line is the traveller comes first.  We don't need to accept a business owners rationale.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 23:59, 28 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
: The issue has also turned up at [[Talk:Yangshuo#Tour_Guides]]. [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 10:10, 29 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Cape Town Dive Festival 2012 ==
 
 
Cape Town is hosting a dive festival in August. It is not on the same scale as the football world cup or summer Olympics, but we are hoping for visitors from all over South Africa, and possibly a few internationals. The festival is a co-operative event to be organised, subsidised, and run by most if not all of the local dive shops, charter boats and clubs. If successful, they plan to make it a bi-annual event. I would like to put up a temporary article giving basic details and contact details for booking and a small temporary banner on the following relevant articles:
 
*The actual dive sites selected for the festival (about 12)
 
*The launch site and base for the festival (one of the local slipways and already a sub-article of the regional dive guide
 
*The regional dive guide,
 
*The national dive guide
 
*Scuba Diving travel topic in the section for South Africa
 
*The local regional travel guide (Western Cape)
 
*The host city (Cape Town)
 
The proposed banner is:
 
 
<div style="width:95%; float:center; border: none; margin: 1em 0 0 1em; padding: 2em;">
 
{| cellpadding=5 cellspacing=1 border=0
 
|-
 
|align=left width=100% style="background-color:#c0ffff; border:4px solid blue; text-align: center; color: navy; padding-left: 0.5em; padding-right: 0.5em" |
 
'''[[Cape Town Dive Festival]]'''<br>11th & 12th August, 2012<br>Launching from<br>[[Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Miller's Point slipway|Cape Boat Club, Miller's Point, Simon’s Town]]<br>'''''Festival Dive Site'''''
 
|}
 
</div>
 
 
Is this acceptable, and are there any suggestions or existing policy to cover this?
 
Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] <small><sup>[[User_Talk:Pbsouthwood|Talk]]</sup></small> 11:07, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:I'm reluctant to approve a banner for a national event like this.  This is not a major international event, so it is not going to be driving tourism; instead, it sounds like you want to advertise it via Wikitravel.  There's a big difference between "Looking for information on the 2012 Olympics?  Here's where it's held," and "Looking for something to do in South Africa?  Here's an event."  I don't think the latter is an appropriate use, especially for an event that will only draw minimal participation from outside the host country.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:47, 31 January 2012 (EST)
 
 
:: A standard event listing in the appropriate city/country article would definitely be OK, but too much promotion would be a concern.  That said, given all the great work that [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] has done on dive articles I'd trust his judgement as to whether Wikitravel is a proper platform for promoting an event like this one, but I've got some concerns that it could be a bit of a slippery slope, and the proposed banner definitely looks a bit like an advertisement.
 
 
:: Wikitravel tends to be very conservative, which isn't always a good thing, so this might be a time where some experimentation would be warranted to see how it goes.  In that spirit, I would be OK with adding temporary notices to the relevant dive articles provided they are a bit closer to standard Wikitravel style (for example, something more like [[Template:Infobox]]).  As to a separate page promoting the event, I've also got some concerns about the precedent that would set, but in the interest of encouraging experimentation what about creating an initial page for discussion purposes and seeing how it goes, although the talk page should make it clear that this is just an experiment and not something should be followed as precedent by other events? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 01:14, 1 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:::LtPowers, I take your point. It would be a foot in the door for possible spamming, so I will scrap the idea and just link to the pages from the event website.
 
:::Ryan, Thanks for the support, but it is a bit of a slippery slope. I have been editing a lot on Wikipedia recently and tend to get policies mixed up between WT and WP. No problem, it just seemed like a good idea at the time. Cheers, &bull; &bull; &bull; [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] <small><sup>[[User_Talk:Pbsouthwood|Talk]]</sup></small> 01:06, 8 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
::::I don't think a banner such as the one for Olympic host cities would be inappropriate on the main page of the South African Diving Sites article though. If someone is looking for Diving in South Africa then it would likely be of interest but not from the South Africa country page. [[User:ChubbyWimbus|ChubbyWimbus]] 10:03, 16 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
==Seeraa, the user and the Chinese website==
 
 
Hi, everyone. I would like you to please read the exchange at [[User_talk:Seeraa]] and also have a look at [http://wikitravel.org/en/Special:Contributions/Seeraa] and [http://www.seeraa.com/]. User Seeraa is some informative edits (unless they are copyvio, and except where they're merely added links to the seeraa portal), and I don't want to chase him/her away, but if the website in question really is in any sense official, why does [http://www.seeraa.com/about-seeraa/] not mention that? How should we handle this situation? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 03:58, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
: Ikan, their homepage say they are a non-profit organisation. I think their [[xl]] linking to diverse places like Lhasa and Hangzhou looks a bit touty for me. I accept if they work in their knowledge into Wikitravel but the linking is to much. Especially in political sensitive cases like Tibet imho their link can't stay. [[User:Jc8136|Jc8136]] 04:06, 3 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== [[Cameron Highlands]] Tour providers ==
 
 
::I would appreciate a second (or third) opinion on the comments I have left on the [[Cameron Highlands]] [[Talk:Cameron Highlands#Tours in the Do section|discussion]] page. Thanks. -- [[User:Felix505|felix]] 06:33, 5 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== General aviation ==
 
 
I'm wondering about [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Atlanta&diff=1826626&oldid=1826621 this edit], which reverts what an anonymous user had added about general aviation airports near Atlanta, with no explanation given. I couldn't find any WT policy on general aviation, but I thought it was generally not excluded. I've certainly seen it mentioned in a lot of other articles. -- [[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 09:43, 10 February 2012 (EST)
 
:You'd have to ask [[User:Dguillaime]] to be sure, but looking at the IP's previous edits, it appears the reason for the reversion was to eliminate the spamming of the link to "Jetset Charter", rather than any particular antipathy toward general aviation.  To the larger question, general aviation is certainly a valid topic for our guides, though only the most significant GA airports in a given region should be listed.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 10:13, 10 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:: The company in question has been copying and pasting the same text to numerous articles, so had [[User:Dguillaime]] not done so I would have also reverted them under the [[Wikitravel:Don't tout]] guideline.  There was a similar discussion about listings for private jets in the [[USA]] article at [[Talk:United States of America/Archive 2007#Private jets?]] and the consensus was that it didn't make sense in that article, and I feel that the same holds true for articles like [[Los Angeles]] or [[Atlanta]] where private charters aren't something that's relevant to 99.999% of travelers.  However, for cities with small airports like [[Santa Monica]] where the major airlines do not operate then listing smaller operators might make sense - that assumes that the company in question actually operates the planes and isn't just a booking agent. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 11:12, 10 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
::: Yes, the spamming of the company link was why I reverted those.  You'll see more instances of that in the edit history for that IP address, for other cities, and never with any contact information for that company besides the link. -- [[User:Dguillaime|D. Guillaime]] 11:38, 10 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Beta testing Mediawiki 1.17 upgrade ==
 
 
Having addressed the first round of bug reports from the Mediawiki upgrade beta test server, we're currently underway on a final round of testing before the new version of Wikitravel goes live in a few weeks. We'd love to have your input, so if you are interested in participating in the beta, email me at paul.obrien at internetbrands.com for testing credentials and instructions. Thanks!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:55, 21 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:Nice to hear that it's coming along :-) Just a question though.. why not upgrade to the latest version? 1.18 has been released a while back already and Wikipedia in fact is deploying even 1.19 this week. Isn't it strange to start with a backlog? [[User:Justme|Justme]] 06:22, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
::It would be great to upgrade to the most recent version; but as you can see, they release small updates quite frequently, and upgrading a site as big as WT is a long process -- one that began prior to the release of 1.18 in November -- thus, we're finishing the upgrade to the version that was out at the time, 1.17. At any rate, it will not be as long between upgrades as it has been since the last one.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:40, 22 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
==Integrating as a Wikimedia project==
 
This does not seem to have been brought up in a long time. I believe that integrating would be positive for all involved
 
*Would provide a secure funding base and reduce the need for google ads which take up so much of my screen
 
*Potentially increase editors as no google ads
 
*Would make it easier for the two sites to direct people adding content to the better place
 
*Would make Wikitravel better known (lots of great content here in a useful format)
 
*Would thus speed up the development of the project
 
*Potentially increased reliability (I am having trouble viewing this site right now)
 
I cannot really think of any drawbacks. Wikimedia projects are now under the same license is here.
 
--[[User:Doc James|Doc James]] 10:25, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
: If [[Wikitravel:Internet Brands]] was interested in moving the site to Wikimedia management I suspect many people would be in support, but since they own the trademarks it would be up to them to make that decision (hopefully [[User:IBobi]] or someone from IB can provide their position).  Moving to Wikimedia without their blessing, and without trademarks, would essentially mean forking the project, and while that's entirely legal since all content is CC-SA licensed, using Wikitravel to have that discussion might not be entirely appropriate. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:19, 24 February 2012 (EST)
 
::Furthermore, if ads are an issue, registered users can turn ads off in their site preferences.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:59, 24 February 2012 (EST)
 
:::Yes I realize that those within the Wikimedia movement are free to take all the content here and put it under their own "name" as the content is CC just as those here are free to do the same with Wikipedia. I do not think splitting the editor base however is best for the content in question / open source movement. We already have too much duplication of efforts in other areas. I thought I would post the idea here to see if those here had any interest in collaborating more closely. I sit on the board of Wikimedia Canada and could bring this forwards to the WMF if there was interest. Good to know about the ads Lt.[[User:Doc James|Doc James]] 07:41, 25 February 2012 (EST)
 
::::Internet Brands, which owns the Wikitravel trademark, is a commercial entity looking to make money off this site, and I can't imagine any situation in which they would be supportive of this plan, regardless of potential benefits to the Wikitravel project and community. Otherwise, what Ryan said ;) --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 22:08, 25 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Outage ==
 
 
Wikitravel was down for a while this morning due to an unscheduled data backup. If you see any unusual performance issues today, please let me know. Thank you --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:11, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
:Site is going down for a few minutes for DB maintenance. Thanks --[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:16, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
==Archiving the contents of user talk pages==
 
 
Have a look at this history: http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=User_talk:FortMyersResort&action=history
 
 
and this discussion: http://wikitravel.org/en/User_talk:Ikan_Kekek#Personal_Talk_Page_Edits
 
 
I think the idea that someone can remove all content from their user talk page and put it in an archive, especially when the content is not even a month old, is absurd. What is your opinion about this? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 02:22, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:Why do you feel it is absurd?  Obviously, the archive ought to be linked from the talk page, but as long as that is done, I don't see the problem.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:03, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
::First, I didn't see a link. Second, there has to be a minimum amount of time before it makes sense to archive discussion, especially when the discussion consisted of two posts by others telling the user in question not to tout. Do you really think it makes sense to archive discussion in user talk pages that's less than a month old? [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 14:05, 27 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
:::Plenty of policy discussions about this, without much consensus, but with a fairly strict status quo practice of letting users do almost whatever they want with their own userspace. ''Guidance'' for users is at [[Wikitravel:Using_talk_pages#Etiquette]], but etiquette is not something policed. We do have a consensus to [[Wikitravel:Deletion_policy#Deleting_articles_in_personal_namespaces|remove content from non-contributing users talk pages]], and remove some extreme content (especially hate speech, promotion of illegal activities like prostitution, or threats). But we [[Wikitravel talk:Deletion policy|have not been able to build a consensus]] to police users' removal of good faith comments by other Wikitravellers (I think we should). For archiving, though, I think we shouldn't get too much in the business of policing userspace.
 
 
:::FWIW, I would support adding a note to the etiquette section, noting that it's best to wait until the page has grown long before archiving, and that such archives be clearly linked from the user's main talk page, so that everything is easy to find.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:55, 28 February 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Outage today ==
 
 
There were a few hours today when the site was flapping up and down; it seems very stable now, but please report if you see any localized outages or ongoing issues with stability or access. Thanks!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:00, 1 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
:Seems like it's back to its normal level of suck.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 21:28, 1 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Booking tool & ad policy discussion ==
 
 
Please take a look at the proposed changes to ad policy and the general Booking Tool discussion taking place over the last couple of weeks -- and years -- over on Shared http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Add_booking_tool_to_WT. As we approach implementation time on the booking tool as well as the Mediawiki upgrade, we'll be soliciting more feedback on look and feel as well, etc.
 
 
Also, if anyone is interested in participating in the ongoing Beta test of the Mediwiki upgrade, please contact me for credentials. Thank you.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:17, 5 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Maintenance window ==
 
 
Hi all: we are going to require a ~30 minute maintenance window for the DB, starting in a few minutes, FYI. Site should be back up shortly thereafter. Thank you,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:51, 6 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Database upgrade complete ==
 
 
If you noticed many pages down this morning, it was due to the massive database upgrade we just completed. You should be seeing improved performance along with few to no errors when viewing, editing or posting content to Wikitravel.
 
 
If you see site weirdness, pages missing, error messages, or generally anything else that could come from a DB upgrade, please let me know.
 
 
Next steps are the MW upgrade and Booking Tool! Thanks,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:18, 7 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
== Wikitravel suggestion ==
 
 
I've been on the search for a good video travel guide and I'm not sure if wikitravel would be for or oppose the idea of making a universal video guide as well. Thoughts?--[[User:themarcophoto]] 04:49, 11 March 2012 (EST)
 
 
: Videos are discouraged per [[:shared:Image policy#Other media|the image policy]].  If you see a strong reason for allowing videos you can make the case on that article's talk page. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 12:45, 11 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Password ==
 
:Query: where do I go when I have forgotten my password?
 
:I will sign with my IP I guess..
 
:--[[User:81.68.73.34|81.68.73.34]] 15:17, 15 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: Others may know better, but I'm not sure that this version of Mediawiki provides that capability (I don't see anything on [[Special:Specialpages]] and there is no Special:PasswordReset page).  Your best option may be to just create a new account and leave a note on the user page indicating that you're the same user as whatever your old login was.  Alternately, IB will (hopefully) complete a Mediawiki upgrade in the coming month(s) that will enable the password reset page. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 12:55, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::On the login screen, there's a button that will send your password to the e-mail address specified in your preferences.  If you didn't specify an e-mail address, you may be out of luck.  It seems like there ought to be something a bureaucrat could do, but I don't know what that is.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 14:45, 17 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::If that doesn't work, let me know. I do not have access to passwords, but I may be able to bend tech's ear about it; obviously we want established members to retain access to their existing accounts.
 
 
::::Incidentally, the MW upgrade Ryan refers to SHOULD (should) be live this week!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:18, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Outage ==
 
 
We were down for about an hour. Back now and all is well.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:02, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== How long to update a revision so it appears in the browser? ==
 
 
Having just spent a number of hours revising, correcting, updating, adding or clarifying links for the Quime, Bolivia page I try and load it (after updating in Mozilla and IE) and it has reverted back to the original. I wonder if it just takes awhile for the moderators to approve the revision, if so how long? If it does take awhile for revision approval, maybe it could be posted in the FAQ so revisionists don´t get freaked out. If it  has reverted, well I don´t understand why and am maybe a bit upset having wasted a few hours since IMO I improved and updated the page.
 
 
:Look here - http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Quime&curid=80685&diff=1842732&oldid=1825508 - at the editing comment and read the links I provided for you to understand why most of your edits to that page have been deleted. I'm sorry you feel like good work went down the drain. I appreciate your attitude, but you need to read the links I gave, and also [[tour]], which is in part relevant to the reversion of your edits to the "Contact" section. Also, please sign talk pages by typing 4 tildes in a row before pressing the enter key. Thanks. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 19:38, 16 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Lansing ==
 
 
Anyone else think [[Lansing (Michigan)]] meets our "much more famous" criterion and ought to be at [[Lansing]]?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 19:30, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: As the capital of Michigan I think it qualifies since [[Lansing (Illinois)]] is just a small village. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 19:37, 19 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Other guide books ==
 
 
I was just wondering if we could start adressing physical guide books. We could for example that we just state which books cover that general area etc... Is this something that would be helpful? We could also just say something about wether that book felt up to date or not...
 
 
[[User:Ptrk|Ptrk]] 13:36, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: [[Wikitravel:External links]] deals with this topic (short summary: references to other guides, either book or URL, are discouraged).  That article's talk page has lengthy discussions explaining why this was done, proposals for change, etc. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:39, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Amazon wikitravel books ==
 
 
See thread here. [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Talk:Copyleft#Violating_books_on_Amazon_.28I_think.29] [[User:81.141.31.216|81.141.31.216]] 17:07, 22 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== iTravelFree is dead; long live WikiSherpa ==
 
 
A quick note: I've renamed my Android/iOS Wikitravel app from iTravelFree to [[Wikitravel:WikiSherpa]], mostly due to an irritating trademark dispute (don't ask.) Of greater interest to most is that, thanks to ever-cheapening bandwidth, it's now possible to download a complete offline snapshot of Wikitravel, and all associated Wikipedia pages, on the free version of the app. (The only difference between the free and paid version now is that the latter is ad-free; the income covers my bandwidth and [http://developers.google.com/appengine/ App Engine] costs.) Enjoy! And, as ever, any comments or suggestions are most welcome. [[User:Rezendi|Rezendi]] 08:03, 31 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Cool, I'll check it out and let you know how things are working ;)  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 19:13, 31 March 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Thanks for the app, dude, it's really helpful! I'm traveling now in south america and use your app every day. <small>—The [[Wikitravel:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User:190.234.100.117|190.234.100.117]] ([[User_talk:190.234.100.117|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/190.234.100.117|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}</small>
 
 
: Very cool. I was using it on the weekend and being able to read WT while offline (no cell coverage) was very handy. - [[User:Shaund|Shaund]] 20:42, 13 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==Credits?==
 
 
At what point did the credits ([http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=N%27Djamena&action=credits example]) cease to be displayed at the bottom of Wikitravel articles? I always thought being able to see who had been working on the article recently was pretty cool (in addition to being an exemplary way of showing attribution). Without this feature—even so much as a link to it—we are no longer keeping our promise to attribute users' real names, for those who have chosen said manner of attribution.
 
 
Did we have a discussion about this, or did IB just unilaterally change the way we attribute users' work?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 04:27, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I'll look into it-- I know it was not a conscious decision, because we'd have discussed it with the community. May just be a glitch. Any idea how long it's been like that?--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:07, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:OK, here is the 411 on attributions: the feature is recommended "OFF" by Mediawiki. We switched it off (sorry -- this did not come down through channels to me) and that was the major factor in improving the site's performance and speed last month. So, once the MW upgrade is live and stable, we can always try turning it on again, and see how it affects performance & decide if the hit is worth having the attributions.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:23, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::That makes sense, and site performance should be a top priority (It's taking just forever to post this message). I'll note, though, that this really is essential information to discuss with the community. Not even notifying us is a pretty huge misstep (not hurling this at you personally). I do think we should restore at least a link to the credits section of each article, though, e.g., '''Please see the [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Wikitravel:Travellers'_pub&action=credits "article credits"] for author attribution.''' And I should point out that that link is generating a database error right now...  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:13, 13 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::I wonder if we could use javascript to hide the credits until the reader clicks the "[show]" button.  Or if reducing the number of authors shown by default would improve performance.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:11, 13 April 2012 (EDT)
 
:::: We probably could, but What about users who (sensibly in my view) disable javascript for security reasons? [[User:Pashley|Pashley]] 23:03, 14 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::::: Sadly, I'm not well versed in the technical details, so I don't know if they'd see the credits by default or wouldn't see them at all.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:43, 15 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::::: If the goal was to reduce performance impact the credits would not be seen by someone who did not have Javascript/Ajax enabled.  Note, however, that this change would require a custom solution be developed and implemented by IB, so it seems unlikely to happen. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:59, 15 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
Without speaking out of turn, I believe we'd have resources for something like that, as it does not sound like a huge deal. Right now we have two techs working on WM upgrade and the booking tool, and we have them specced to work on WT for quite a while after that's complete. Let's see how the MW update affects performance, turn attributions back on as-designed, and revisit.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 13:32, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:We're working on a solution to get attributions back on the pages with minimal performance impact; however, if we need to turn them back on now we can. It will probably slow edits back down considerably, and maybe reads too. We just want to be as above-board as possible that we're going to resolve this one way or the other, attributions are going to return to and stay on Wikitravel, and our plan is to include them along with performance improvements under the new version of WM. But if the community prefers them to be on now, we can and will oblige without a problem. Fair enough?
 
 
== MediaWiki upgrade is in staging and ready for testing ==
 
 
There is now a version of WT with the Mediawiki upgrade, live at this URL:
 
 
http://staging.wikitravel.org/en/Main_Page
 
 
No credentials or password are needed to access this server. Just click through, poke around, and report any issues you find under BETA here:
 
 
http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17
 
 
Testing this is critical to ensuring that the transition to the full new site is smooth. This will be happening very soon (weeks or sooner) and we're anxious to hear feedback. So please, go look.
 
 
KNOWN ISSUES:
 
 
1. This is NOT the "real" Wikitravel site -- your updates won't carry over to the real site. This is just a testing environment for debugging; it will mimic the look & feel of the new site however.
 
 
2. The article data you will see on this staging server are several months old. New edits will not appear. Don't panic -- all the data will of course appear when the real site is switched over.
 
 
3. Speed will be okay; not as fast as the full site, but not nearly as slow as the previous testing environment.
 
 
Thank you,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:43, 11 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:FYI the staging server is now closed. The next step will be adding the booking tool and internally testing the site, then opening it up again on staging for the community to test before it goes live. This should happen in the next week.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:57, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::Just a reminder—MediaWiki is the name of the software.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 17:53, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:::Thanks Peter -- think I reversed my MW and WM a couple times there.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:06, 20 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== The Article Al Riqqa ==
 
I was reading through the page articles needing attention and Al Riqqa came across my mind. [[Al riqqa]] is a district in [[Dubai]], I suggest either we delete it and put all the information in Dubai or introduce distritification in the article so that Al Riqqa will be included.
 
 
-[[User:SnappyHip|SnappyHip]] 11:01, 14 April 2012 (PST)
 
 
== The way that "table of contents" is displayed ==
 
 
Hi guys.
 
 
As a sysop of the French Wiktionary, I'm really interrested in the way ''tables of contents'' show up here.
 
 
Would any contributor please help me to understand how it works ? --[[User:ArséniureDeGallium|ArséniureDeGallium]] 14:04, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:I believe [[User:Evan|Evan]] worked on it. He is no longer very active on this site, so best to contact him via his own website [http://evan.prodromou.name/Contact].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 16:10, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
::Thanks. --[[User:ArséniureDeGallium|ArséniureDeGallium]] 16:40, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
==French Wikitravel==
 
I'm very concerned by the French version of this wiki : it seems that there is not anyone by there to ensure as a basic thing as ensuring that the pages about licenses describes the licence in the footnote. --[[User:ArséniureDeGallium|ArséniureDeGallium]] 16:47, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
:To my opinion, you should close Wikitravel in French, it is dead in all ways to think about it. --[[User:ArséniureDeGallium|ArséniureDeGallium]] 16:52, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:: There appears to still be active users on French Wikitravel, and [[:fr:User:Joelf]] is still active as an administrator. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 17:08, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
:::Sure. In fact, when saying that, I was hoping someone would explain me I was wrong. --[[User:ArséniureDeGallium|ArséniureDeGallium]] 20:42, 23 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==Pure grumbling==
 
 
I had the day off, and was looking forward to putting some real work into the New Orleans articles, but was completely unable to load even the main page (timeouts). [[Special:Recentchanges]] makes it clear enough that this wasn't true for everyone. Why does this happen?  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 03:58, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:Well it was true for ME for much of the day. We had some firewall issues and an actual fire on the roof of our building that made it impossible for most staff to come to work yesterday and address the other issues. Things are still getting back to normal, but at least WT is up & running. Please report any lingering weirdness that may have begun yesterday. Thanks,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:08, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
::FYI you *may* be seeing more of this today; i don't know how performance looks from outside, but there are more network glitches running around today. Sorry about that -- we'll lock it down as soon as we can.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:13, 30 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Changing time formats ==
 
 
An anonymous user [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Tokyo&diff=1862930&oldid=1862308 changed all the times] in the [[Tokyo]] article to 24-hour format.  There's some logic behind that, since it's common in Japan to use 24-hour time in most public information displays... but if we were to follow that standard, wouldn't it be better done at a national level?  Whichever way it goes, is this worth reverting?  [[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 09:49, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: See [[Wikitravel:Time and date formats]] for the official policy.  The talk page for that article also has a fair amount of discussion on the subject. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 11:07, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== I have nothing to edit. What can I? ==
 
 
Hello, I'm a new user. I am bored on here. I have nothing to edit. What can I do?
 
 
And besides, are you going to comment about my username and signature? [[User:Scambox48 (Blow PMA up)|Pmaistakingthebanhammertobanworld]] 22:35, 28 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
:If you have nothing to edit, why are you here?  If you're only here to publicize your dislike of Pmanderson (who doesn't edit here), we're not really interested.  If you're genuinely interested in becoming a Wikitraveler, I suggest your first step should be to register a better username.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 09:27, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
==Vandals getting around blocks==
 
 
How is this vandal that I blocked able to still make edits, as an unregistered user, to a page that I protected from edits by unregistered users? See [[User talk:216.66.167.98]] [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 21:27, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
: A blocked user can still edit his talk page with the current Mediawiki version.  Similarly, it doesn't appear that protecting a page has any effect unless the page exists - you can create a page with a note indicating why it will be protected and then protect it, and things should work as expected. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 22:00, 29 April 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== French Wikitravel pages for deletion ==
 
 
Hi, could someone speedily delete some of the pages on the [[:fr:Wikitravel:Pages à supprimer|French Wikitravel pages for deletion]]? [[User:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">'''–sumone10154'''</font>]] 14:01, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
 
:Done. --[[User:Rein N.|Rein N.]] 19:01, 2 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== Ontopic or not? Page gathering information on possibilities to take bicycles on public transport. ==
 
 
Hi! Over at the (Swedish-language) Facebook group [http://www.facebook.com/groups/45841099287/] and Facebook page [http://www.facebook.com/cykelpatag] we were discussing to create a collection of information somewhere listing the possibilties (and lack-thereof) of taking a bicycle on Swedish trains, buses, etc. I wonder if that would be on-topic on Wikitravel? It would be one page listing for all of Sweden with what companies and on what lines it's possible to take a bicycle and where it's not. If possible we would make a map out of it. A wiki would be useful, we don't have one, and on Wikipedia it would be off-topic I think. What about Wikitravel? Does it fit? --[[User:Gerrit|Gerrit]] 17:08, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
 
*Such an article might be a bit too limited in scope.  It might be better to have an entire [[Bicycle travel in Sweden]] article that covers all aspects of bicycling.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 18:45, 3 May 2012 (EDT)
 
 
== ***RESCHEDULED for next week*** MediaWiki upgrade is scheduled for Monday 5/14/12 ==
 
 
Site will be READ-ONLY for up to TWO DAYS while the upgrade is occurring.
 
 
If there are edits you'd like to make, please do so over the weekend and on Monday.
 
 
When the new site comes online, it will be on new hardware as well. Bug reporting is available here:
 
 
http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS
 
 
If for any reason you need to contact me, I can be reached on my Talk page or my email address paul.obrien at internetbrands.com.
 
 
Thank you for hanging in there with us; once this major upgrade is complete we expect to be able to update the site software in a much more timely manner (1.11 to 1.17 is a big jump), and we have development resources to address any technical issues still lingering after the upgrade, as well as to address the next set of feature requests from the community. We're looking forward to the next stage of the project and hope you are too!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 17:47, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
 
  
: I've updated [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice ]] to note the scheduled outage. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 18:36, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
+
== Headings ==
  
::Thank you Ryan.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 18:59, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
+
I am brand new to Wiki and created ny page, then somehow my headings lost their se parathion a and all but the first too be ame on line!  I tried pasting in headings from a different site but nothing works!. They are all in a block! I have also lost the Add Listing button?  [[User:Arlingham|Arlingham]] ([[User talk:Arlingham|talk]]) 19:02, 9 January 2017 (EST)
  
:Might be helpful to list the time in UTC (for the non-US users) in the message that displayed at the top. So: ''A MediaWiki upgrade is scheduled for Tuesday 8-May at 10AM PST (17:00 UTC). The site will be READ-ONLY for up to two days during the upgrade. '' [[User:AHeneen|AHeneen]] 23:38, 4 May 2012 (EDT)
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:Hello and welcome to Wikitravel!  I currently don't see anything on your userpage. Could you provide more details as to what specific page you are trying to edit? [[User:Tyen|Tyen]] ([[User talk:Tyen|talk]]) 19:05, 9 January 2017 (EST)
  
::Done [[User:Sumone10154|<font color="#339989">'''–sumone10154'''</font>]] 10:58, 5 May 2012 (EDT)
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M page is Arly but I don't think I have puny it yet I somehow lost all the indentation and had to change the headings to make sense but need to format but can't wo ou what to do?I am having trouble replying as I am using an iPhone and can't see what I am writing!  Y page title is Arlingham! [[User:Arlingham|Arlingham]] ([[User talk:Arlingham|talk]]) 19:24, 9 January 2017 (EST)
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:'''[[Arlingham]]''' I fixed it for you. Some of the headings are still non-standard but they are correctly formatted. Thanks for your additions--I know that typing on those things is a real bear. [[User:Koavf|Koavf]] ([[User talk:Koavf|talk]]) 19:48, 9 January 2017 (EST)
  
THIS HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED FOR 5/15/2012 due to network issues today. As we get closer to the day, I'll post a time -- it is likely to be around 5am PST (12:00 UTC).--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:22, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
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Hello. I'm new to editing Wikitravel. I added a new city, McHenry, Illinois, but now see that there's a empty link under the Chicagoland tab for there. I don't know how to move my page to there.[[User:Damelon|Damelon]] ([[User talk:Damelon|talk]]) 09:07, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
  
THIS HAS BEEN RESCHEDULED FOR 5/14/2012. It is still likely to be around 5am PST (12:00 UTC).--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:28, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
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:Hi, I have changed your article name, so you can now find it under [[McHenry (Illinois)]]. Happy editing! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 10:31, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
  
: Since the site isn't read-only as of 8AM (Pacific) on 14-May, is there any update on when the upgrade is going to happen? -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 10:56, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
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== Buisness Listings: How Much is too Much? ==
  
::I'm told 2 minutes from now.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 12:58, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
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Earlier today, a bus company that operates New Zealand's largest passenger transport network with daily services from Auckland to many towns and cities in the Waikato region made an account, and proceeded to add their listing to a WHOLE BUNCH of pages, which looked like spam from my end. Should we allow companies to add their listings to more than a certain number of pages? Yes? No? If we do, what could be the ramifications? What could potential questions, comments, and or snide remarks could arise?  -- <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User: Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User_talk: Tonikar|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tonikar|contribs]]) </small>
  
:::I'm following GW Bush's counsel [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjmjqlOPd6A].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 13:33, 14 May 2012 (EDT)
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: Good question. But I think their listing should only be added to the city where their headquarters is located (and maybe to small cities and towns where they are the only choice to get into). Just imagine if we allow this bus operator to add all its lines to Wikitravel articles, we will soon see chain restaurants, hotels, and other business add listings to all places where they operate (actually, we've seen quite a few cases like this before), which will soon turn Wikitravel to a yellow page. Plus our policy about [[Wikitravel:Don't tout#Don't list the same place many times|touting]] is pretty clear about this: ''...businesses should be listed in only one article for the town or district in which the business operates... ''.  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 04:21, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
I will update shortly on the upgrade status.--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 16:55, 17 May 2012 (EDT)
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::I agree with Binbin, we'd better stick to our [[Wikitravel:Don't tout#Don't list the same place many times|touting]] policy. The risk of having chains adding their listings everywhere is too high (and we're not the Yellow Pages, aren't we?). [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 05:24, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
:<big>Mission Accomplished!</big><small><small><small>?</small></small></small>  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 20:18, 17 May 2012 (EDT)
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:::If you are in New Zealand without a car, it is likely that you will use Intercity to get around. I think that there is only one other operator (Naked Bus) with a smaller national network and some regional operators (Atomic etc) and for a few destinations trains. So I think that it is fine to mention them in the get in section. However we don't need the full details about WiFi etc in every article. I would prefer that some information was added about the services to a particular destination - e.g. "X has two coaches per day from Auckland via Hamilton and one from Wellington via Napier. Coaches stop outside the post office." [[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] ([[User talk:AlasdairW|talk]]) 10:55, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
== Templated See and Do listings ==
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::::AlasdairW, and Binbin bring up good points. This could be a slippery slope, but on this one occasion since they are one of the few transportation services listed on our site in some areas it seems relevant and helpful. Would it be okay if they specified amenities for travelers per each location? [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 9:27, 17 March 2017 (PST)
  
Hi there. I'm only a new 'WikiTraveler', but am a seasoned Wiki-editor with many years experience. I am hoping to make some big contributions to this site, but something has been bugging me lately. I find that the See and Do listings on some articles can get very messy and disorganised. I think if we were to organise this information into a template/table, this would be much better for viewers to decipher information from, and also improve the quality of our articles.
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:::::I agree that we should stick with our policy, have the business listed once, probably best the country article, and there list some specific amenities if that adds value. In our [[Wikitravel:External links|external links]] policy it says clearly what not to list to, so if we make an exception for one business, soon more will follow. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 12:40, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
  
This has been proposed many years ago at [[Wikitravel_talk:Attraction_listings]], but with little discussion or progress. It seems many other language WikiTravels do it. [http://wikitravel.org/ja/%E3%83%AB%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%91%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%83%B3#.E8.A6.B3.E3.82.8B See here] for a Japanese example. I understand we use WikiCode tags, and it could take a long time to convert ''every'' article to a template format. One option is to keep the WikiCode we use, but change how the system organises the info within the tags; from a jumbled text wall, to an organised table format. This would allow for a total revamp across the board, yet with minimal effort.
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::::::Would it be good to review our policy, and add an addendum for the amount of posts that a company has added/ can add? Also, should we be reviewing these on a case by case basis; especially if we think it could be helpful for the traveler? Like AlasdairW, had said that it is likely you will come across this company's transportation system in NZ if travelling without a car... [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 1:42, 17 March 2017 (PST)
  
Any other thoughts, ideas or comments? Thanks, [[User:JamesA|JamesA]] 08:56, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
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I'm torn on this one too. First, I love Alasdair's point that a business should take the time, if they are going to try this, to make EACH listing specifically relevant to that page. If they don't want to take the time to point out the relevancy of their business to that particular destination (and they ought to be encouraged by us to do so), they should not have the privilege of being listed here.
  
: One of the reasons the wikicode tags were used was to add the "edit" links to make it easier for non-technical contributors to add and edit listings.  As far as I'm aware there would be no way to achieve similar functionality using templates. -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 10:30, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
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Second, I am at a loss to find something wrong with listing a business on multiple pages, if those pages do not contain any (or a very small number) similar options. In this case, if you are considering traveling to a small town in NZ that is only served by this bus company, we ought to provide details as to how to catch a bus into/out of there if we have them. What is the harm? Now, if this is, say, New York City, where there are interminable bus and other transportation options for getting in and out, I would say that allowing companies to list all of them would be disastrous for Wikitravel, and of limited to zero use for the traveler. And don't even get me started on chain restaurants!
  
:: Maybe this is just me... I feel like the Japanese presentation is a bit over the top, but I'd be quite happy just to add a bit more formatting to the current presentation. Just a bit of italics here and there, that kind of stuff. Most English-language print guidebooks do this, and I think it aids readability and makes it easy to spot when a listing is missing a piece of info. --[[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 14:18, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
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So perhaps there is a middle ground? Where there are many existing options, disallow the listing; where there are none or very few, allow them; and when allowed, the listing must be customized to that destination. And when we see a company engaging in this behavior, we ought to make contact with them as soon as possible, guide them, and have them provide a proposed list of everywhere they are intending to add their listing, as well as the specifics of how they will customize their listing to the page, BEFORE they spam it out everywhere publicly. How's that sound? [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 19:29, 22 March 2017 (EDT)
:::Our listings already use bold and italics.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 18:50, 11 May 2012 (EDT)
 
::::We do have a great system for adding listings. This system can easily be kept. What would be changed is where that information goes. There has to be a page somewhere (probably a MediaWiki: page) that organises the listing into the format it currently is, with the bold font, italics, etc. From a glance at this page, it seems [[User:IBobi]] handles the wiki's technical stuff, so maybe he would know how to change it.
 
::::The Japanese format does take it a step overboard with all the colours and pictures. We could always have a much more toned down version. I just feel the way it is now is really messy. Look at the opening times on the [[Dhaka#Buildings|first listing here]]; it's all over the place. A possibility could be just to add more bold/italics/underlines, or even put some information on separate lines or dot points. Does anyone want to have a go at fixing it up? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 04:28, 12 May 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:::: Yes, I know they already use some bold and italics... I was saying I think they could use a little more. --[[User:BigPeteB|BigPeteB]] 10:15, 18 May 2012 (EDT)
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: I agree. In principle, listing on multiple pages is not allowed , except where similar choices are limited and/or there're none or only a few similar listings (we do have this "something is better than nothing" policy). Yes, a prior communication with the companies who want to put their listings on multiple page sounds even better so that on one hand they can do it properly with our help, on the other we can kind of make sure things don't go out of control. I think we can start with this bus operator in NZ. What do you guys think?  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 01:40, 23 March 2017 (EDT)
  
:::::Well, to be honest, I wouldn't know how to change them. But a good start would be creating a mockup. [[Wikitravel talk:Listings]] would be a good place to discuss the mockup once you create one.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 19:26, 18 May 2012 (EDT)
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==Watchlist==
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Hello, for a month or so i've been pressing the star shaped sign in pages i liked, and now i can find how to access them. how can i see it? (Asked by Nir6668 at 21:47, 1 April 2017).
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:The star shaped sign (next to View History near the top right of the page) adds an article to your watchlist. You can see this by clicking on the link "Watchlist" at the top right of the page (when you are logged in). This will display a list of any of the pages in your watchlist which have been edited in the past few days - the number of days can be changed on the watchlist tab of Preferences. You can also set things so that every page that you edit is automatically added to your watchlist, and you can choose to get an email when a page on your watchlist is changed. [[User:AlasdairW|AlasdairW]] ([[User talk:AlasdairW|talk]]) 19:12, 1 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:::::I certainly wouldn't want to see the listings become as colorful and complex as the ones on the Japanese site and I like the tag system we have now, but I think some minor tweaking couldn't hurt - putting the opening hours and the price info in italics, to further distinguish them from the description of the place, would really tidy up the presentation (whether this can actually be done I don't know, but I'm just throwing that out there). I really wouldn't want to see any more bolded text in the listings - as of now only the '''name''' of the place is bolded, and I like that because it highlights it and makes it easier on the eye when you're scanning an article looking for a specific listing. [[User:PerryPlanet|PerryPlanet]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:PerryPlanet|Talk]]</sup></small> 10:31, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
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==Tours listing==
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how can i  list my tours business[[User:Eastland adventures|Eastland adventures]] ([[User talk:Eastland adventures|talk]]) 10:37, 4 April 2017 (EDT)
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: Hey Eastland Adventures! You can list your tour business on the destination pages of the locations you service: consider viewing our rules on where to post in on either our [[Wikitravel:Activity listings]] or the [[Wikitravel:Where you can stick it]] page. Also, be sure to acknowledge our [[Wikitravel:Don't tout]] policy as well. [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 010:13, 5 April 2017 (PST)
  
::::::We could make the phone number blink!  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
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::Hi, I have noticed that in Pune, heritage walk has been listed, even though it is also a walking tour, the policy should be uniformly applied on all, having said that I am not asking to turn down their listing. I appreciate the policy but it must modify with time, considering the practicality, wikitravel should understand that it is a self-guided tour platform and walking tours are guided tour platform, both are different and guided tours does not conflict with wikitravel because taking a walking tour does not restrict or encourage a person from using wikitravel any less, rather if a person explores a place on a walking tour that he has earlier seen listed on wikitravel, it provides him a reassurance of the quality and depth of wikitravel guides.Even lonely planet lists walking tours and so are all the other travel guide providers, it is a shame that with a fear of competition (which is actually not in reality) a portal like wiki travel is not passing on all the relevant information to the travelers about what and how to explore the city. For europe, walking tours have become very popular and so it is understandable that listing too many of such tours can actually confuse the travelers as to which one to use, but for developing nations like India, where the Indian people don't even know what are walking tours, listing the same would mean that a great deal to help travelers. A venture that i experienced recently called as Yo Tours is providing such great walking tours in india, which is highly appreciated by travelers and i tried to list those for different cities but the same has been removed. I believe case to assessment is necessary which even the tour listing policy suggests, it never says not to list walking tours. I would appreciate if i can get a solution for the same. <small>—The [[Project:Using_talk_pages#Talk_page_formatting|preceding]] comment was added by [[User: Ava2011|Ava2011]] ([[User_talk: Ava2011|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Ava2011|contribs]]) </small>
  
Moving the hours to a separate line could be really useful. I think we could make them more readable:
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:::Hello, thank you for your input. As you can see in our policies, in general we don´t allow walking tours in our articles, see [[Wikitravel:Activity_listings|activity listings]]. When we check the latest edits and we see something that would be against those policies, we would remove it. It is correct that it could happen that other listings were previously added and gone unnoticed, but in general we do try to have a look at the existing listings as well to see what has slipped through overtime. But this is up to everyone who contributes to Wikitravel. If you still feel your tour would add value and needs to be included, then it should be discussed on the talk page of the article itself, see what feedback you get from other users. I hope this helps! Looking forward to further edits from you. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 11:10, 1 June 2017 (EDT)
  
Current version:
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== Help ==
* <see name="International Spy Museum" alt="" address="800 F St NW" directions="" phone="+1 202 393-7798" url="http://spymuseum.org/index.php" hours="9AM-5PM or 9AM-6PM daily, last admission one hour before close" price="Adults: $20, seniors: $15, children (5-11): $15, 4 &amp; under: Free" lat="" long="" email="" fax="">D.C.'s newest hot attraction's principal claim to fame among locals is the extraordinarily long line that usually winds out the doors (not to mention the high price tag). Its popularity, while a bit disproportionate given all the other great free museums in town, is not unwarranted—its exhibits are interesting to anyone even marginally interested in espionage and Cold War history, and it also has a great exhibit tailored specifically to kids.</see>
 
  
Another idea:
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Hi! I tried to post a message at the Romanian Travellers' pub. Apparently, that page is protected from any edit. I also tried to talk to user {{user|Vlad}} who is an active administrator there. But it seems he had protected his own talk page from any edit. Is that normal to protect such pages and be unable to contact anyone there? Thank you, [[User:Wintereu|Wintereu]] ([[User talk:Wintereu|talk]]) 08:30, 9 April 2017 (EDT)
*'''International Spy Museum''', 800 F St NW, ☎ +1 202 393-7798, [http://spymuseum.org/index.php 1].
 
:''9AM-5PM or 9AM-6PM daily, last admission one hour before close.''
 
:D.C.'s newest hot attraction's principal claim to fame among locals is the extraordinarily long line that usually winds out the doors (not to mention the high price tag). Its popularity, while a bit disproportionate given all the other great free museums in town, is not unwarranted—its exhibits are interesting to anyone even marginally interested in espionage and Cold War history, and it also has a great exhibit tailored specifically to kids.
 
:'''Price''': Adults: $20, seniors: $15, children (5-11): $15, 4 & under: Free.
 
  
Good idea to take a fresh look at this. We'll have to wait until we have functional tech support, or the ability to do our own tech support, before we can implement this, but it's good to figure out what we want in the meantime. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:55, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
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:Hello, thank you for your message. I don´t have an account on the Romanian site, but looking at it it has been inactive for quite some time (the travellers pub). I will check with corporate and see what the reason was for the protection of the page. Thanks for bringing this up. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 16:01, 9 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:That's great, Peter! The separate lines makes it much easier to read the information, instead of it being a jumbled mess. Most travel guides do organise the info how we do it now, (all in one long spiel, rather than spaced out) but that's just because they need to fit all the info into a specific number of pages. We have much more room than books, so it makes sense that we make use of it and make the info easier to read for viewers. I'll do some perusing and see if I can find out how to edit the backend stuff. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 07:05, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
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:: As far as I can see, the Romanian Wikitravel appear to have been ''frozen in time'' ... [[User:Wintereu|Wintereu]] ([[User talk:Wintereu|talk]]) 13:32, 10 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:Excellent suggestion! [[User:Atsirlin|Atsirlin]] 07:15, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
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::: Yep. As for my talk page, some time ago wikitravel was a target for SPAM bots, and that included my talk page. All I did was this: 23 noiembrie 2008 20:13‎ Vlad (Discuție | contribuții | blochează)‎ m . . (14.577 de octeți) (0)‎ . . (A protejat "Discuţie Utilizator:Vlad" [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (anulare):  only autoconfirmed users may edit the talk page (and of course only admin can move it), but I admit that I haven't the slightest idea what autoconfirmed users mean in wikitravel's context. --[[User:Vlad|Vlad]] ([[User talk:Vlad|talk]]) 14:06, 10 April 2017 (EDT)
  
::If anyone wants to have a go searching for how to modify the backend code that configures the layout, [http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Special:Allmessages&ot=html here] may be a good start. That's a list of all the technical MediaWiki pages that can be tweaked. Some pages have the prefix "listing", which might be somehow relevant. But don't take my word for it; the page we need might not be there. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 09:02, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
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:::: Hello Wintereu! Thank you for reaching out! [http://wikitravel.org/ro/Special:Pagini_protejate Here] is a list of protected pages on RU WT. As mentioned by Vlad above, the main reason behind protecting pages (or sometimes the entire site) is to avoid spam attacks for those versions of Wikitravel that don't have many active admins. Sometimes the spam attacks are so "forceful" and sneaky that don't get catch by our spam filters. Therefore, in a good faith to protect what has been already created we sometimes protect the pages.
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:::: Are you planning to work actively on RU WT? If yes, I would be happy to lift the protection for RU pages. Hopefully, the spammers let go as well in a meantime. Cheers, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] ([[User talk:IBAlex|talk]]) 03:54, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
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::::: Wintereu, I just read a discussion on your Talk Page and realized you're not willing to work on RU. You made fair points. If you change your mind, however, please let me know:) Have a great day, [[User:IBAlex|IBAlex]] ([[User talk:IBAlex|talk]]) 04:02, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:::Keep in mind that, despite the prevalence of mobile options in the modern era, making guides that can be easily and cheaply printed out is still one of our [[Wikitravel:Goals and non-goals|explicit goals]]. [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 20:17, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
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Hi {{user|IBAlex}}. I just tried to (re)fix the number of days and edits to be shown within the ''recent changes'' page at RO WT (from the ''Preferences'' --> ''Recent changes''). It must be a soft problem, because I simply can't change the values there (the max days suggested there and 1000 edits to show by default). And that's only one from many issues I noticed here. Also, it seems I can't be connected on both the EN WT and RO WT at the same time... Thank you for replying and reading the discussion from my talk page. There isn't much more to say. Since the e-mail option doesn't seem to work either, if you (or any one else) feel like sending me any more message or comment, you'll find me on "''copycats''" projects under the very same user name. Happy Easter ;) [[User:Wintereu|Wintereu]] ([[User talk:Wintereu|talk]]) 13:34, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
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: One more thing. Can you imagine I had to log in several times just to write the message above?! [[User:Wintereu|Wintereu]] ([[User talk:Wintereu|talk]]) 13:37, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:::: It is entirely possible to change the format for a printed guide, much like we do now for URL formatting. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 20:27, 21 May 2012 (EDT)
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==Deletion and Login/Funky Stuff==
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Hey everyone! So lately there have been some issues with login-- Wikitravel has been logging people out frivolously, and deleted pages are still showing up in Recent Changes. We are currently working to resolve these issues. If there are any other problems or bugs you find please let us know on here or through email! Thanks! [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 3:10, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:::::Is that feature custom to Wikitravel, or a feature of MediaWiki?  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:::::: The alternate formatting for printable version is a MediaWiki feature.  All it does is use a different (css) stylesheet for formatting.  I'm pretty sure MediaWiki allows more of these stylesheets to be configured as preferences too.  So in my understanding you could easily have a different style for printing than you have for online display, so we shouldn't let the printing bit constrain our thinking too much. After all, our online display currently has no URLs, so is inherently unsuited for printing. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 19:29, 23 May 2012 (EDT)
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Bangkok/Thonburi will not load on my browser.
  
:::::::There's been a week of inactivity, so is everyone content with just implementing Peter's version for the time being? There's no colour or pictures, simply a few extra lines and spaces, and it should be possible to keep the Printable version as-is. After implementation, we can re-discuss if there's any issues. I did a little search around to find the code we need to edit, but it's very complicated. It looks like [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming) Ajax] and CSS were used, which is only editable by site admins/IB. The Listing Editor's code is [http://files.wikitravel.org/mw/skins/common/ListingEditor.js here]. The formatting of the listing is [http://files.wikitravel.org/mw/skins/common/listing.css here]. Original discussion [http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Popup_editing_for_listings_tags here]. While we're at it, we should add the 'email' option to the editor, which has been long missing. I guess we should file a tech-request then? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 23:21, 29 May 2012 (EDT)
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[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 04:05, 19 April 2017 (EDT)
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The "Understand.Get In.Get Around etc" banner from the top of the page on places where there is a pic at the top, has fallen to the bottom of the article (at least in Thailand)
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[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 04:19, 19 April 2017 (EDT)
  
::::::::Given the complexity of the change and the expansiveness of its effect, I'd prefer to see more discussion before we go making major changes.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 13:35, 30 May 2012 (EDT)
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== Issue ==
  
I would also like to see some more discussion on this before making a change. Listings have a variety of completeness and length of information, so depending on what is there, the above proposal could easily produce a very lopsided-looking listing like this:
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Hi, On my talkpage when I remove the "If you feel that I have reverted" box as well as try to archive the page I keep getting "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: TS Page Title Block",<br />
*'''International Butt Museum''', 800 F St NW, ☎ +1 202 393-7798, butt@buttmuseum.org, [http://buttmuseum.org/index.php 1].
+
Not being familiar with the site as such I have no idea who to ask or where to find any admins,<br />
:''9AM-5PM.''
+
Thanks, [[User:Davey2010|Davey2010]] ([[User talk:Davey2010|talk]]) 16:20, 20 April 2017 (EDT)
:Super awesome museum about butts. Great for people who have butts or would like to find out more about butts.
+
:Probably running into a vandalism protection filter. Just write on Tonikar's page and she can help you with that. [[User:IBobi|IBobi]] ([[User talk:IBobi|talk]]) 18:50, 20 April 2017 (EDT)
:'''Price''': Free.
+
::Hi [[User:IBobi|IBobi]], Not sure why tho as I've never had the issue before ?, Forgot to mention but I'm constantly being logged out aswell which I assumed was a site issue, Anyway I'll ask them thanks for your help much appreciated. [[User:Davey2010|Davey2010]] ([[User talk:Davey2010|talk]]) 18:57, 20 April 2017 (EDT)
 
[[User:Texugo|texugo]] 15:16, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
  
:Is there a code that we could use that would only implement the multiple-line layout when a certain character/word count is reached? Sounds complicated to implement, though. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 05:42, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
+
== Removal question ==
  
== Mediawiki upgrade status ==
+
Hi, If for instance a hotel is closed down do we remove the listing or do we put something like "this has since closed down" ?,  Not sure if we preserve the history or not, Thanks, [[User:Davey2010|Davey2010]] ([[User talk:Davey2010|talk]]) 22:49, 21 April 2017 (EDT)
  
The planned MW upgrade has been postponed.
+
:Hi, thanks for your question. Yes, you can just remove the info (after verifying) and just leave a comment in the summary field when you publish. You can add/edit any info, as long as it is clear to all why something was removed. Happy editing! [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 06:08, 22 April 2017 (EDT)
 +
::Hi [[User:Adzas|Adzas]], Okie dokie thanks very much - I didn't want to remove incase we preserve that was all, Anyway thanks for your much much appreciated :), Happy editing, [[User:Davey2010|Davey2010]] ([[User talk:Davey2010|talk]]) 10:17, 22 April 2017 (EDT)
  
During the last 2 days, as you may have noticed, Wikitravel has been in read-only mode for a planned upgrade. Due to unforeseen technical circumstances, we had to re-schedule.
+
== Cleanup! ==
  
We have been working to transfer the entire site to new hardware while simultaneously migrating it to MW version 1.17 from 1.11.
+
I do believe that I have read "please remove the clutter.................."
 +
Wikitravel has more than 20 articles going back a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!
  
As you can see, the existing version of the site running on 1.11 is back online for read-write access. Our technical department has built testing tools specific to the customized version of MW that runs Wikitravel, and we'll be using them to troubleshoot and log potential causes of the upgrade failure.
+
When I write here, I remove the article afterwards after a "reasonable" time!
  
As soon as we have it, I will post a new timetable for the switchover to the new site.
+
So will someone in authority please move this old stuff to where it belongs?
  
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns,--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 20:37, 17 May 2012 (EDT)
+
I would do it myself, but at 74 years of age, I do not know where to put it all.
  
:Hi, this is [[:ja:user:shoestring|Shoestring]], an admin of ja:.
+
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 07:02, 27 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:It will be very much helpful if you could kindly leave a brief message about the concrete schedule of the next system maintenance on the [[MediaWiki:Sitenotice]] of '''shared and en:''', at least prior to a week.
+
:Hi Avemario, thank you for pointing this out. But can you be more specific on which articles you are talking about? You are always welcome to drop me an email (you know my email address). Thank you!  --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 09:55, 27 April 2017 (EDT)
  
:Usually ja: users don't check the pubs on en: and shared so frequently, and we have totally no idea what on earth was happening on the site for the last couple of days.--[[User:Shoestring|Shoestring]] 07:22, 18 May 2012 (EDT)
+
== Cleanup! ==
  
::Out of interest, what are the changes? Is it just performance improvements, or will this bring in new ads? Are we getting upgraded to the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Vector Vector] skin, because the Monobook is starting to look quite old. I've seen non-Wikimedia sites do it; we should too. <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 21:40, 19 May 2012 (EDT)
+
Hi!!
  
:Any chance of providing a [[:en:Wikitravel:Database dump|database dump]] for download at the same time?  Please? [[User:Anjocu|Anjocu]] 23:05, 21 May 2012 (EST)
+
Is someone going to do something about "sweeping the Pub" at all?
 +
I did mention it in the above article.
  
==www.airport-china.com==
+
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 03:24, 5 May 2017 (EDT)
  
A lot of links to this site have been posted in articles about various Chinese cities. I doubt this is an official airport site, but I'm not completely certain. If it's not, all such links should be deleted. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 22:02, 25 May 2012 (EDT)
+
: Hi Avemario, thank you for raising this again. You are right, the Pub contains too many topics now, I agree that it should be archived. Maybe to [[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub archives|here]]?    --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 05:41, 6 May 2017 (EDT)
  
:At the bottom of the page of http://www.airport-china.com are various advertising links to hotel booking sites and tour guides, there is also a statement of "Power by Lutu ltd.", whose own website states that:
+
: Just archived all topics raised in 2016 [[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/2016|here]]. And our Wikitravellers' pub archive page is [[Wikitravel:Travellers' pub/Archives|here]].       --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 09:20, 15 May 2017 (EDT)
  
:''Lutu Inc. is the one of the domestic company in China, which fully committed in the business of China Hotel Online Booking Service.''
+
== Map based wikitravel ==
  
:These links coupled with the .com rather than .cn top level domain suggest a commercial, rather than government, site.
+
Hello!
:The Civil Aviation Authority of China has a website at http://www.caac.gov.cn/.[[User:Travelpleb|Travelpleb]] 10:57, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
 
  
== Deletion of user and talk pages ==
+
I wish to introduce a map based wikitravelish website impressionmap.org
  
Every time I'm monitoring the Recent Changes, I notice new users creating accounts then pasting some huge advertising spiel on their user/user talk pages. I understand advertising is completely disallowed, but are these pages meant to be outright deleted? If so, it may help if we had a template for 'Speedy deletions'. All the pages with the template would be put into a category where admins would just delete them without discussion, as they are blatant breaches of guidelines. [[Template:Vfd]] seems to only cover deletions that require discussion and consensus. I'll go ahead and create the template in the few days, if there are no objections, but wanted to also notify admins of the idea.  
+
I'm an avid reader and planned all trips based on info here. A big thanks first! However, articles are organized by meaningless place names (it's the only choice though), and it's not straightforward to figure out which place is where. Thus, planning bigger trips involves going back and forth between here and Google Maps, taking a long time.
  
On an unrelated sidenote, I think the pub is definitely in need of a sweep of items that are at least 3 months old. Any objections to that? <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup>
+
It may be better to organize info by map itself and attach it to the map as snippets which will appear or disappear based on zoom level. More info and links can be added as popups. So I made the aforementioned website. You can zoom in to Amherst, MA or NYC (worse option as not much info is added) to see how it works. By the way, the website doesn't seem to work on IE and renders a bit ugly on browsers released before March 2017
  
:I've created [[Template:Delete]] and [[:Category:Speedy deletion candidates]]. Please add it to your watchlist/userspace, admins, so you can keep an eye on it. :) <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 08:11, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
+
Asking for advice and opinions! If you would, edit it as well!
  
:: I don't think a separate template is needed as the VFD tag should be sufficient, and if a speedy deletion is warranted the nomination can state as much. However, for spambot-created pages no nomination is needed unless the page is overlooked - per [[Wikitravel:Deletion policy#Speedy deletion]] obvious candidates don't require a nomination as it adds extra overhead for nominating and archiving discussion (''"New pages that are plainly spam and that qualify for speedy deletion will be deleted as soon as they are noticed by an administrator, and therefore do not need to be listed on the votes for deletion page. If such a page remains for more than 24 hours, add it to the nominations page as a way to ensure that it isn't overlooked."''). -- [[User:Wrh2|Ryan]] &bull; ([[User talk:Wrh2|talk]]) &bull; 13:15, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
+
Hopefully this is the right place to do such introduction. No bad intention, just wish to make travel info presentation more intuitive and trip planning easier
 +
[[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] ([[User talk:Wkenmomo|talk]]) 14:16, 1 June 2017 (EDT)
  
:Yes, such user pages should be deleted, and I delete them whenever I see them. [[User:Ikan Kekek|Ikan Kekek]] 18:20, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
+
: Sorry for such a late response! We appreciate your time spent on Wikitravel -- especially for adding edits to the Liaocheng page. We hope to see more thoughtful edits like the ones you have provided. Thanks for the info! --[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 01:50, 06 June 2017 (PST)
  
The pub definitely needs more brooms! Please don't simply sweep everything into an archive, though. Discussions should be swept to the most relevant talk page, per the little sweeping guide at the top of this page.  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 12:55, 3 June 2012 (EDT)
+
:: Hey [[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]]! I finally got a chance to check out the website you had created, and I think its pretty cool! I like that it sums up exactly where I may want to travel if I want to shop, or find out more about American history! I was wondering -- and you kind of explained already-- but your purpose for creating a map that works as so? How would this help benefit Wikitravel users? Thanks! --[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 012:39, 07 June 2017 (PST)
  
::I didn't think it was necessary to list advertisement articles on the VfD page because, as Ryan said, it would involve extra nomination processes and archiving when discussion shouldn't be required. I considered letting an admin know on their talk page, but quite a few new pages popped up. Also, I'll sweep some old dust out of the pub later when I get a chance :) <big>[[User:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#4682b4"><big>J</big>ames'''<small>A</small>'''</font></font>]]</big>  <sup>[[User talk:JamesA|<font face="Segoe UI"><font color="#191970">'''>talk'''</font></font>]]</sup> 03:45, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
+
::: Hey [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]], sorry for the late reply. Why I create it is that I want a more direct way of accessing geo info. I used to read here, search on Google Map, write what it is about and save it in my maps to compare with others. A great hassle and Google maps aren't designed for this. My purpose is to make designing "optimized" trips easier and I really hope to plan my next trip to Canada intuitively and effortlessly. Do wikitravel need a dynamic map? Wikitravel is welcome to host this map and embed it to the right zoom and boundary. The map is itself editable.[[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] ([[User talk:Wkenmomo|talk]]) 13:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
  
== Introducing the Wikitravel API ==
+
::::[[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]], [[User:Wkenmomo|Wkenmomo]] I think it would be a great idea to include links to Wikimapia. I'm working on US Hwy 2 between Monroe and Stephens Pass.  Here is an example of what you get for [[Skykomish_(Washington)]] [http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=47.710000&lon=-121.360000&z=13&m=b&search=Skykomish].  We could actually provide links to WikiTravel on the WikiMapia page.  Ideas? [[User:Kgrr|Kgrr]] ([[User talk:Kgrr|talk]]) 08:46, 9 July 2017 (EDT)
  
Hey there. Just wanted to mention that I've gone and created an [http://wiki-sherpa.appspot.com/api API for Wikitravel], for people who want to use Wikitravel data in other projects. It renders pages as hierarchical JSON objects, with wikimarkup rendered into simple HTML, and includes lists of subpages, geocoding of listings with addresses, etc. There's also a search API and the ability to search for pages and listings near a particular latitude and longitude. Please note, however, that it's very much a beta release; any feedback, suggestions, or bug reports would be most welcome! [[User:Rezendi|Rezendi]] 12:48, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
+
== Asian pages: cleanup or not? ==
  
== Mediawiki upgrade scheduled for 06-June-2012 ==
+
Many articles related to south-central Asia have tables collecting country/regional symbols. See some examples [http://wikitravel.org/en/India#Holidays here], [http://wikitravel.org/en/Pakistan#Eat here] and [http://wikitravel.org/en/Tajikistan#Do here]. Does Wikitravel really need it? Is it really important to know the regional flower/plant/animal/tree/etcetera of those regions? There are even flags but apparently [http://wikitravel.org/en/File_talk:Flag_of_Islamic_Republic_of_Hindustan.png some are fake]  We're a travel-related community, the info in those tables would look better in WP. I suggest to remove all of them. Any thoughts? [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 09:26, 26 June 2017 (EDT)
  
Site will be READ-ONLY for up to 2 days while the upgrade is occurring.
+
:I agree, the tables seem to overtake some of the articles, we are not an encyclopedia, lets stick to travel related information, and flags we usually only put in the country articles. Especially if the flags are not “official” we should remove those. [[User:Adzas|Adzas]] ([[User talk:Adzas|talk]]) 05:38, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
  
If there are edits you'd like to make, please do so asap.
+
:: Agree. Those tables don't belong here. They take up a lot of space but don't add value to Wikitravel as a world-wide travel guide. I think we should remove all those country/regional symbols.    --[[User:Binbin|Binbin]] ([[User talk:Binbin|talk]]) 05:49, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
 +
:::I agree. Remove them all. They are intrusive, not important for travel, and I suspect they may have been copied from somewhere else (Wikipedia?) without attribution (I may be wrong about that point). I have seen them here before and disliked them, but were hesitant to just delete them - so I'm glad to see others feel the same way. [[User:Nurg|Nurg]] ([[User talk:Nurg|talk]]) 06:00, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
  
When the new site comes online, it will be on new hardware as well. Bug reporting is available here:
+
::::So, shall we start deleting those tables? Any other thoughts about this issue? [[User:GiulioC|GiulioC]] ([[User talk:GiulioC|talk]]) 10:14, 4 July 2017 (EDT)
  
http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS
+
== can't save preferences ==
  
If for any reason you need to contact me, I can be reached on my Talk page or my email address paul.obrien at internetbrands.com. Thanks!--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 14:07, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
+
I just tried to change the Internationalisation option in my preferences and change the wiki language to have the sidebar and some buttons shown in my mother language. I pressed "save" bet it's set to "english" anyway. BTW... where are the recent changes gone? can't the the recent edits. Any chance to see it? -- [[User:DerFussi|DerFussi]] ([[User talk:DerFussi|talk]]) 16:50, 9 July 2017 (EDT)
  
:Delayed until 06-June-2012--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:11, 4 June 2012 (EDT)
+
This was written almost two weeks ago, and no one has answered!
 +
Will someone who understands the question please provide an answer to the person asking?
 +
[[User:Avemario|Avemario]] ([[User talk:Avemario|talk]]) 07:24, 19 July 2017 (EDT)
  
::Upgrade complete. Please report issues at http://wikitravel.org/shared/Tech:Upgrade_to_MediaWiki_1.17#1.17_UPGRADE_BUG_REPORTS--[[User:IBobi|IBobi]] 19:02, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
+
:Hey [[User:DerFussi|DerFussi]] and [[User:Avemario|Avemario]]! So sorry for the late response! There have also been issues lately when other users have tried to save their ad preferences as well. This may be a related issue. We are currently looking into this! Thank you for bringing this to our attention! [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 18:59, 20 July 2017 (EDT)
  
== Eratic readings since crash at 5. Juni 2012 in German Wikitravel ==
 
  
Seit dem 7. Juni 2012 werden auf der Deutschen Seite von Wikitravel Informationen zu Sehenswürdigkeiten, Gastronomie und Unterkünften nur noch zum Teil angezeigt. Auch die Darstellung am Beginn eines Artikels hat sich zum Nachteil verändert. Die Hauptseite hat einen aktuellen Stand vom 22. Juni 2011, also fast ein Jahr alt. Auch die Artikelinformationen sind veraltet. Interessierte neue Autoren springen sehr schnell ab und gehen zu [http://www.wikivoyage.org/de/Hauptseite Wikivoyage] über. Dort werden sie herzlichst begrüßt und aufgenommen. Bei Wikitravel werden sie von einen nicht mehr aktiven Administrator gefrustet, der ihre Beiträge ohne Begründung löscht, anstatt ihnen Hilfe anzubieten.
+
==Welcome==
 +
Hey all!
 +
So I was thinking how do you all welcome people to the site?! I usually say something like:  
  
Man bekommt den Eindruck Wikitravel ist gestorben und wird nicht mehr gepflegt. Es ist seit Januar 2012 kein aktiver Administrator mehr tätig. Die Wahl für neue Administratoren ist mangels Interesse gescheitert. Wie soll es weitergehen?
+
Hello! [[Wikitravel:Welcome, newcomers|Welcome]] to [[Wikitravel:About|Wikitravel]].
 +
To help get you started contributing, we've created a [[Wikitravel:Tips for new contributors|tips for new contributors]] page, full of helpful links about [[Wikitravel:policies and guidelines|policies and guidelines]] and [[Wikitravel:Manual of style|style]] as well as some important information on [[Wikitravel:copyleft|copyleft]] and basic stuff like [[Wikitravel:How to edit a page|how to edit a page]].
 +
If you need help, check out [[Wikitravel:Help]], or post a message in the [[Wikitravel:travellers' pub|travellers' pub]]. -- [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]])
  
Please answer at the German Travellers' pub-Site. -- Knut [[Special:Contributions/84.58.160.100|84.58.160.100]] 04:32, 8 June 2012 (EDT)
+
Any suggestions for a better welcome?! [[User:Tonikar|Tonikar]] ([[User talk:Tonikar|talk]]) 20:30, 24 July 2017 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 00:35, 25 July 2017

The Travellers' pub is the place to ask questions when you're confused, lost, afraid, tired, annoyed, thoughtful, or helpful. Please check the FAQ and Help page before asking a question, though, since that may save your time and others'.

Please add new questions at the bottom of the page and sign your post by appending four tildes (~~~~) to it, but otherwise plunge forward!

You can find Archived discussions here: Travellers´pub Archives

  • If you have a question or suggestion about a particular article, try using talk pages to keep the discussion specific to that article.
wts:Wikitravel Shared:Travellers' pub

Headings[edit]

I am brand new to Wiki and created ny page, then somehow my headings lost their se parathion a and all but the first too be ame on line! I tried pasting in headings from a different site but nothing works!. They are all in a block! I have also lost the Add Listing button? Arlingham (talk) 19:02, 9 January 2017 (EST)

Hello and welcome to Wikitravel! I currently don't see anything on your userpage. Could you provide more details as to what specific page you are trying to edit? Tyen (talk) 19:05, 9 January 2017 (EST)

M page is Arly but I don't think I have puny it yet I somehow lost all the indentation and had to change the headings to make sense but need to format but can't wo ou what to do?I am having trouble replying as I am using an iPhone and can't see what I am writing! Y page title is Arlingham! Arlingham (talk) 19:24, 9 January 2017 (EST)

Arlingham I fixed it for you. Some of the headings are still non-standard but they are correctly formatted. Thanks for your additions--I know that typing on those things is a real bear. Koavf (talk) 19:48, 9 January 2017 (EST)

Hello. I'm new to editing Wikitravel. I added a new city, McHenry, Illinois, but now see that there's a empty link under the Chicagoland tab for there. I don't know how to move my page to there.Damelon (talk) 09:07, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Hi, I have changed your article name, so you can now find it under McHenry (Illinois). Happy editing! Adzas (talk) 10:31, 27 June 2017 (EDT)

Buisness Listings: How Much is too Much?[edit]

Earlier today, a bus company that operates New Zealand's largest passenger transport network with daily services from Auckland to many towns and cities in the Waikato region made an account, and proceeded to add their listing to a WHOLE BUNCH of pages, which looked like spam from my end. Should we allow companies to add their listings to more than a certain number of pages? Yes? No? If we do, what could be the ramifications? What could potential questions, comments, and or snide remarks could arise? -- —The preceding comment was added by Tonikar (talkcontribs)

Good question. But I think their listing should only be added to the city where their headquarters is located (and maybe to small cities and towns where they are the only choice to get into). Just imagine if we allow this bus operator to add all its lines to Wikitravel articles, we will soon see chain restaurants, hotels, and other business add listings to all places where they operate (actually, we've seen quite a few cases like this before), which will soon turn Wikitravel to a yellow page. Plus our policy about touting is pretty clear about this: ...businesses should be listed in only one article for the town or district in which the business operates... . --Binbin (talk) 04:21, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
I agree with Binbin, we'd better stick to our touting policy. The risk of having chains adding their listings everywhere is too high (and we're not the Yellow Pages, aren't we?). GiulioC (talk) 05:24, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
If you are in New Zealand without a car, it is likely that you will use Intercity to get around. I think that there is only one other operator (Naked Bus) with a smaller national network and some regional operators (Atomic etc) and for a few destinations trains. So I think that it is fine to mention them in the get in section. However we don't need the full details about WiFi etc in every article. I would prefer that some information was added about the services to a particular destination - e.g. "X has two coaches per day from Auckland via Hamilton and one from Wellington via Napier. Coaches stop outside the post office." AlasdairW (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
AlasdairW, and Binbin bring up good points. This could be a slippery slope, but on this one occasion since they are one of the few transportation services listed on our site in some areas it seems relevant and helpful. Would it be okay if they specified amenities for travelers per each location? Tonikar (talk) 9:27, 17 March 2017 (PST)
I agree that we should stick with our policy, have the business listed once, probably best the country article, and there list some specific amenities if that adds value. In our external links policy it says clearly what not to list to, so if we make an exception for one business, soon more will follow. Adzas (talk) 12:40, 17 March 2017 (EDT)
Would it be good to review our policy, and add an addendum for the amount of posts that a company has added/ can add? Also, should we be reviewing these on a case by case basis; especially if we think it could be helpful for the traveler? Like AlasdairW, had said that it is likely you will come across this company's transportation system in NZ if travelling without a car... Tonikar (talk) 1:42, 17 March 2017 (PST)

I'm torn on this one too. First, I love Alasdair's point that a business should take the time, if they are going to try this, to make EACH listing specifically relevant to that page. If they don't want to take the time to point out the relevancy of their business to that particular destination (and they ought to be encouraged by us to do so), they should not have the privilege of being listed here.

Second, I am at a loss to find something wrong with listing a business on multiple pages, if those pages do not contain any (or a very small number) similar options. In this case, if you are considering traveling to a small town in NZ that is only served by this bus company, we ought to provide details as to how to catch a bus into/out of there if we have them. What is the harm? Now, if this is, say, New York City, where there are interminable bus and other transportation options for getting in and out, I would say that allowing companies to list all of them would be disastrous for Wikitravel, and of limited to zero use for the traveler. And don't even get me started on chain restaurants!

So perhaps there is a middle ground? Where there are many existing options, disallow the listing; where there are none or very few, allow them; and when allowed, the listing must be customized to that destination. And when we see a company engaging in this behavior, we ought to make contact with them as soon as possible, guide them, and have them provide a proposed list of everywhere they are intending to add their listing, as well as the specifics of how they will customize their listing to the page, BEFORE they spam it out everywhere publicly. How's that sound? IBobi (talk) 19:29, 22 March 2017 (EDT)

I agree. In principle, listing on multiple pages is not allowed , except where similar choices are limited and/or there're none or only a few similar listings (we do have this "something is better than nothing" policy). Yes, a prior communication with the companies who want to put their listings on multiple page sounds even better so that on one hand they can do it properly with our help, on the other we can kind of make sure things don't go out of control. I think we can start with this bus operator in NZ. What do you guys think? --Binbin (talk) 01:40, 23 March 2017 (EDT)

Watchlist[edit]

Hello, for a month or so i've been pressing the star shaped sign in pages i liked, and now i can find how to access them. how can i see it? (Asked by Nir6668 at 21:47, 1 April 2017).

The star shaped sign (next to View History near the top right of the page) adds an article to your watchlist. You can see this by clicking on the link "Watchlist" at the top right of the page (when you are logged in). This will display a list of any of the pages in your watchlist which have been edited in the past few days - the number of days can be changed on the watchlist tab of Preferences. You can also set things so that every page that you edit is automatically added to your watchlist, and you can choose to get an email when a page on your watchlist is changed. AlasdairW (talk) 19:12, 1 April 2017 (EDT)

Tours listing[edit]

how can i list my tours businessEastland adventures (talk) 10:37, 4 April 2017 (EDT)

Hey Eastland Adventures! You can list your tour business on the destination pages of the locations you service: consider viewing our rules on where to post in on either our Wikitravel:Activity listings or the Wikitravel:Where you can stick it page. Also, be sure to acknowledge our Wikitravel:Don't tout policy as well. Tonikar (talk) 010:13, 5 April 2017 (PST)
Hi, I have noticed that in Pune, heritage walk has been listed, even though it is also a walking tour, the policy should be uniformly applied on all, having said that I am not asking to turn down their listing. I appreciate the policy but it must modify with time, considering the practicality, wikitravel should understand that it is a self-guided tour platform and walking tours are guided tour platform, both are different and guided tours does not conflict with wikitravel because taking a walking tour does not restrict or encourage a person from using wikitravel any less, rather if a person explores a place on a walking tour that he has earlier seen listed on wikitravel, it provides him a reassurance of the quality and depth of wikitravel guides.Even lonely planet lists walking tours and so are all the other travel guide providers, it is a shame that with a fear of competition (which is actually not in reality) a portal like wiki travel is not passing on all the relevant information to the travelers about what and how to explore the city. For europe, walking tours have become very popular and so it is understandable that listing too many of such tours can actually confuse the travelers as to which one to use, but for developing nations like India, where the Indian people don't even know what are walking tours, listing the same would mean that a great deal to help travelers. A venture that i experienced recently called as Yo Tours is providing such great walking tours in india, which is highly appreciated by travelers and i tried to list those for different cities but the same has been removed. I believe case to assessment is necessary which even the tour listing policy suggests, it never says not to list walking tours. I would appreciate if i can get a solution for the same. —The preceding comment was added by Ava2011 (talkcontribs)
Hello, thank you for your input. As you can see in our policies, in general we don´t allow walking tours in our articles, see activity listings. When we check the latest edits and we see something that would be against those policies, we would remove it. It is correct that it could happen that other listings were previously added and gone unnoticed, but in general we do try to have a look at the existing listings as well to see what has slipped through overtime. But this is up to everyone who contributes to Wikitravel. If you still feel your tour would add value and needs to be included, then it should be discussed on the talk page of the article itself, see what feedback you get from other users. I hope this helps! Looking forward to further edits from you. Adzas (talk) 11:10, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

Help[edit]

Hi! I tried to post a message at the Romanian Travellers' pub. Apparently, that page is protected from any edit. I also tried to talk to user Vlad (talk, contribs) who is an active administrator there. But it seems he had protected his own talk page from any edit. Is that normal to protect such pages and be unable to contact anyone there? Thank you, Wintereu (talk) 08:30, 9 April 2017 (EDT)

Hello, thank you for your message. I don´t have an account on the Romanian site, but looking at it it has been inactive for quite some time (the travellers pub). I will check with corporate and see what the reason was for the protection of the page. Thanks for bringing this up. Adzas (talk) 16:01, 9 April 2017 (EDT)
As far as I can see, the Romanian Wikitravel appear to have been frozen in time ... Wintereu (talk) 13:32, 10 April 2017 (EDT)
Yep. As for my talk page, some time ago wikitravel was a target for SPAM bots, and that included my talk page. All I did was this: 23 noiembrie 2008 20:13‎ Vlad (Discuție | contribuții | blochează)‎ m . . (14.577 de octeți) (0)‎ . . (A protejat "Discuţie Utilizator:Vlad" [edit=autoconfirmed:move=sysop]) (anulare): only autoconfirmed users may edit the talk page (and of course only admin can move it), but I admit that I haven't the slightest idea what autoconfirmed users mean in wikitravel's context. --Vlad (talk) 14:06, 10 April 2017 (EDT)
Hello Wintereu! Thank you for reaching out! Here is a list of protected pages on RU WT. As mentioned by Vlad above, the main reason behind protecting pages (or sometimes the entire site) is to avoid spam attacks for those versions of Wikitravel that don't have many active admins. Sometimes the spam attacks are so "forceful" and sneaky that don't get catch by our spam filters. Therefore, in a good faith to protect what has been already created we sometimes protect the pages.
Are you planning to work actively on RU WT? If yes, I would be happy to lift the protection for RU pages. Hopefully, the spammers let go as well in a meantime. Cheers, IBAlex (talk) 03:54, 18 April 2017 (EDT)
Wintereu, I just read a discussion on your Talk Page and realized you're not willing to work on RU. You made fair points. If you change your mind, however, please let me know:) Have a great day, IBAlex (talk) 04:02, 18 April 2017 (EDT)

Hi IBAlex (talk, contribs). I just tried to (re)fix the number of days and edits to be shown within the recent changes page at RO WT (from the Preferences --> Recent changes). It must be a soft problem, because I simply can't change the values there (the max days suggested there and 1000 edits to show by default). And that's only one from many issues I noticed here. Also, it seems I can't be connected on both the EN WT and RO WT at the same time... Thank you for replying and reading the discussion from my talk page. There isn't much more to say. Since the e-mail option doesn't seem to work either, if you (or any one else) feel like sending me any more message or comment, you'll find me on "copycats" projects under the very same user name. Happy Easter ;) Wintereu (talk) 13:34, 18 April 2017 (EDT)

One more thing. Can you imagine I had to log in several times just to write the message above?! Wintereu (talk) 13:37, 18 April 2017 (EDT)

Deletion and Login/Funky Stuff[edit]

Hey everyone! So lately there have been some issues with login-- Wikitravel has been logging people out frivolously, and deleted pages are still showing up in Recent Changes. We are currently working to resolve these issues. If there are any other problems or bugs you find please let us know on here or through email! Thanks! Tonikar (talk) 3:10, 18 April 2017 (EDT)


Bangkok/Thonburi will not load on my browser.

Avemario (talk) 04:05, 19 April 2017 (EDT) The "Understand.Get In.Get Around etc" banner from the top of the page on places where there is a pic at the top, has fallen to the bottom of the article (at least in Thailand) Avemario (talk) 04:19, 19 April 2017 (EDT)

Issue[edit]

Hi, On my talkpage when I remove the "If you feel that I have reverted" box as well as try to archive the page I keep getting "This action has been automatically identified as harmful, and therefore disallowed. If you believe your action was constructive, please inform an administrator of what you were trying to do. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: TS Page Title Block",
Not being familiar with the site as such I have no idea who to ask or where to find any admins,
Thanks, Davey2010 (talk) 16:20, 20 April 2017 (EDT)

Probably running into a vandalism protection filter. Just write on Tonikar's page and she can help you with that. IBobi (talk) 18:50, 20 April 2017 (EDT)
Hi IBobi, Not sure why tho as I've never had the issue before ?, Forgot to mention but I'm constantly being logged out aswell which I assumed was a site issue, Anyway I'll ask them thanks for your help much appreciated. Davey2010 (talk) 18:57, 20 April 2017 (EDT)

Removal question[edit]

Hi, If for instance a hotel is closed down do we remove the listing or do we put something like "this has since closed down" ?, Not sure if we preserve the history or not, Thanks, Davey2010 (talk) 22:49, 21 April 2017 (EDT)

Hi, thanks for your question. Yes, you can just remove the info (after verifying) and just leave a comment in the summary field when you publish. You can add/edit any info, as long as it is clear to all why something was removed. Happy editing! Adzas (talk) 06:08, 22 April 2017 (EDT)
Hi Adzas, Okie dokie thanks very much - I didn't want to remove incase we preserve that was all, Anyway thanks for your much much appreciated :), Happy editing, Davey2010 (talk) 10:17, 22 April 2017 (EDT)

Cleanup![edit]

I do believe that I have read "please remove the clutter.................." Wikitravel has more than 20 articles going back a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time!

When I write here, I remove the article afterwards after a "reasonable" time!

So will someone in authority please move this old stuff to where it belongs?

I would do it myself, but at 74 years of age, I do not know where to put it all.

Avemario (talk) 07:02, 27 April 2017 (EDT)

Hi Avemario, thank you for pointing this out. But can you be more specific on which articles you are talking about? You are always welcome to drop me an email (you know my email address). Thank you! --Binbin (talk) 09:55, 27 April 2017 (EDT)

Cleanup![edit]

Hi!!

Is someone going to do something about "sweeping the Pub" at all? I did mention it in the above article.

Avemario (talk) 03:24, 5 May 2017 (EDT)

Hi Avemario, thank you for raising this again. You are right, the Pub contains too many topics now, I agree that it should be archived. Maybe to here? --Binbin (talk) 05:41, 6 May 2017 (EDT)
Just archived all topics raised in 2016 here. And our Wikitravellers' pub archive page is here. --Binbin (talk) 09:20, 15 May 2017 (EDT)

Map based wikitravel[edit]

Hello!

I wish to introduce a map based wikitravelish website impressionmap.org

I'm an avid reader and planned all trips based on info here. A big thanks first! However, articles are organized by meaningless place names (it's the only choice though), and it's not straightforward to figure out which place is where. Thus, planning bigger trips involves going back and forth between here and Google Maps, taking a long time.

It may be better to organize info by map itself and attach it to the map as snippets which will appear or disappear based on zoom level. More info and links can be added as popups. So I made the aforementioned website. You can zoom in to Amherst, MA or NYC (worse option as not much info is added) to see how it works. By the way, the website doesn't seem to work on IE and renders a bit ugly on browsers released before March 2017

Asking for advice and opinions! If you would, edit it as well!

Hopefully this is the right place to do such introduction. No bad intention, just wish to make travel info presentation more intuitive and trip planning easier Wkenmomo (talk) 14:16, 1 June 2017 (EDT)

Sorry for such a late response! We appreciate your time spent on Wikitravel -- especially for adding edits to the Liaocheng page. We hope to see more thoughtful edits like the ones you have provided. Thanks for the info! --Tonikar (talk) 01:50, 06 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Wkenmomo! I finally got a chance to check out the website you had created, and I think its pretty cool! I like that it sums up exactly where I may want to travel if I want to shop, or find out more about American history! I was wondering -- and you kind of explained already-- but your purpose for creating a map that works as so? How would this help benefit Wikitravel users? Thanks! --Tonikar (talk) 012:39, 07 June 2017 (PST)
Hey Tonikar, sorry for the late reply. Why I create it is that I want a more direct way of accessing geo info. I used to read here, search on Google Map, write what it is about and save it in my maps to compare with others. A great hassle and Google maps aren't designed for this. My purpose is to make designing "optimized" trips easier and I really hope to plan my next trip to Canada intuitively and effortlessly. Do wikitravel need a dynamic map? Wikitravel is welcome to host this map and embed it to the right zoom and boundary. The map is itself editable.Wkenmomo (talk) 13:45, 10 June 2017 (EDT)
Tonikar, Wkenmomo I think it would be a great idea to include links to Wikimapia. I'm working on US Hwy 2 between Monroe and Stephens Pass. Here is an example of what you get for Skykomish_(Washington) [1]. We could actually provide links to WikiTravel on the WikiMapia page. Ideas? Kgrr (talk) 08:46, 9 July 2017 (EDT)

Asian pages: cleanup or not?[edit]

Many articles related to south-central Asia have tables collecting country/regional symbols. See some examples here, here and here. Does Wikitravel really need it? Is it really important to know the regional flower/plant/animal/tree/etcetera of those regions? There are even flags but apparently some are fake We're a travel-related community, the info in those tables would look better in WP. I suggest to remove all of them. Any thoughts? GiulioC (talk) 09:26, 26 June 2017 (EDT)

I agree, the tables seem to overtake some of the articles, we are not an encyclopedia, lets stick to travel related information, and flags we usually only put in the country articles. Especially if the flags are not “official” we should remove those. Adzas (talk) 05:38, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
Agree. Those tables don't belong here. They take up a lot of space but don't add value to Wikitravel as a world-wide travel guide. I think we should remove all those country/regional symbols. --Binbin (talk) 05:49, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
I agree. Remove them all. They are intrusive, not important for travel, and I suspect they may have been copied from somewhere else (Wikipedia?) without attribution (I may be wrong about that point). I have seen them here before and disliked them, but were hesitant to just delete them - so I'm glad to see others feel the same way. Nurg (talk) 06:00, 27 June 2017 (EDT)
So, shall we start deleting those tables? Any other thoughts about this issue? GiulioC (talk) 10:14, 4 July 2017 (EDT)

can't save preferences[edit]

I just tried to change the Internationalisation option in my preferences and change the wiki language to have the sidebar and some buttons shown in my mother language. I pressed "save" bet it's set to "english" anyway. BTW... where are the recent changes gone? can't the the recent edits. Any chance to see it? -- DerFussi (talk) 16:50, 9 July 2017 (EDT)

This was written almost two weeks ago, and no one has answered! Will someone who understands the question please provide an answer to the person asking? Avemario (talk) 07:24, 19 July 2017 (EDT)

Hey DerFussi and Avemario! So sorry for the late response! There have also been issues lately when other users have tried to save their ad preferences as well. This may be a related issue. We are currently looking into this! Thank you for bringing this to our attention! Tonikar (talk) 18:59, 20 July 2017 (EDT)


Welcome[edit]

Hey all! So I was thinking how do you all welcome people to the site?! I usually say something like:

Hello! Welcome to Wikitravel. To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Wikitravel:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. -- Tonikar (talk)

Any suggestions for a better welcome?! Tonikar (talk) 20:30, 24 July 2017 (EDT)