This is the slush pile for Wikitravel:Star nominations -- articles that were not agreed to be of Star status yet. Articles in the slush pile can be renominated if the criticisms from the previous nomination are addressed.
Pretty comprehensive overall coverage of the activity from the point of view of an interested traveller considering learning to dive and beginning divers thinking of organising a dive holiday (it's probably actually the case that there may be two articles in there: Scuba diving destinations, and Scuba diving overview for travellers -- both of which examples show that I should not be naming articles!). Hypatia 00:49, 31 May 2006 (EDT)
- 1) A map pinpointing the most popular dive destinations might help out the geopolitically challenged who don't know where, say, Thailand or Malta is. 2) I think you may be right that this is more than one article. There's a lot here, and either splitting it up and editing it down to cover just the most-travel-related aspects would help. - 19:56, 31 May 2006 (EDT)
- Support. I've never been scuba diving, but I definately could go ahead and start my own scuba diving school with this article. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 09:07, 9 June 2006 (EDT)
- Support. The article definitely meets the criteria for star article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by EmbrunOntario (talk • contribs)
- Oppose. I've been a big contributor to the article and I like it, but I think the index of scuba destinations up front needs a lot more work — it should cover all the biggies and give nutshell summaries. I don't think any splitting is needed at this stage. Jpatokal 09:40, 27 July 2006 (EDT)
Withdrawn pending addition of a map and improvements to the list of destinations. Hypatia 20:28, 31 July 2006 (EDT)
- It's a Guide, it's got a map and it's DOTM. Let's make it a Star if it isn't one already. Jpatokal 04:03, 1 October 2006 (EDT)
- Support- Sounds good. Are there any more things that could be added in the Do Section? Felixboy 14:11, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
- Don't support for the following reasons:
- "Do" section is less than stellar for a city of 500,000.
- There isn't a "Stay Safe" section or any information pertaining how to avoid hassles, being a crime victim, or natural disasters.
- Added. It's kinda hard to avoid earthquakes though.
- There isn't a "Cope" section.
- Section added, but it's empty...
- MoS is sketchy in some places.
- Some listings have little or no contact info (I.e. Yogyakarta#Sleep there isn't an address or phone number for "Monical Hotel". Also, under Yogyakarta#Museum we provide absolutely no information about the "Museum Batik". There's simply a link to a Wikipedia article about the painting technique, but nothing about the museum.) -- Sapphire 14:22, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
- Correct name is "Monica Hotel", I dug up a phone number but couldn't find an address. The Museum Batik is so obscure it's not listed in any of my guidebooks, so I just deleted it. Jpatokal 23:14, 3 October 2006 (EDT)
- Don't Support. It's an awesome article, but. -- Colin 15:59, 4 November 2006 (EST)
- Bunches of entries lack addresses or directions. For example, the Saphir Square mall is listed as "Jalan Solo". If there is no further address that can be given then I withdraw the complaint.
- Phone numbers often fail MoS. Maybe switch to the newfangled listings tag and make it Not Your Problem?
- No prices on Museums.
- Is JI an abbrev for Jalan? For consistency, it'd be nice if only one format is used.
- Would an address for the train station and bus station be helpful? Or do we just assume the reader will be going by taxi and the taxi driver knows where they are?
- Have a mentioned lately that I wish there was a level between guide and star?
- Don't support. Same reasons as above, especially the lack of things in "Do" and the lack of contacts (and info in some places) for "sleep" listings. I want to see this make it as a star, because its pretty close to being there if all these points are sorted. -- Tim 17:11, 4 November 2006 (EST)
- This thing has been pending for quite a long time. Have the objections been addressed, or should it be slush-piled for now? Let's make a decision here. (I have no strong opinions on this article myself.) -- Bill-on-the-Hill 20:12, 16 November 2006 (EST)
- There were quite a few problems and I believe only partial attempts to address the issues were made. It needs to be slush-piled. -- Sapphire
- I really don't think it's a Star yet, but it's not far away, and since someone unilaterally proclaimed it a Star (which I rolled back), it should at least be examined, in the spirit of "due process." A relatively small bit of work might make it a real, viable candidate. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:42, 24 November 2006 (EST)
- Shouldn't this process be for articles that the nominator believes are stars, and wants to get some confirmation from others before changing the status? We already have a lot of places to say, "This article is almost there, let's put it over the top;" and the Wikitravel:Collaboration of the Week is a good place to solicit that help. --Evan 11:18, 22 December 2006 (EST)
- Don't support yet. It's a good guide, but a couple of things to work on:
- -I'm not quite sure why it needs/gets a big maps of all of India's airports and sea ports, did I miss something?
- -Get around needs subsections
- -All listings need addresses, opening hours, etc in proper format
- -The writing could use a once-over, there's some repetition here and there, etc.
- -Get out needs to be figured out as there's way too much there. Some info should be moved to its own guide
- -The images don't all work as good illustrations of the destination.
- Maj 23:40, 26 November 2006 (EST)
I'm afraid I was the one who proclaimed it a star, sorry Bill! Someone deleted my map of the airports and the picture of train. I feel that it's agood move. I've tried to add and complete the listings and the Shopping and Eating lists are quite comprehensive now. The Get Out Section is ok, too. - upamanyu
- Nothing to be sorry about; there's now some incentive to improve the content in a way that will push it to Star, even though (IMO) it's not there yet. Let's see what develops. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 18:28, 27 November 2006 (EST)
- I added the info section and wrote more about the suburban railway in the get around section. please proclaim it a star if you think it's ready. you can also mail me on how to improve it, my ID is firstname.lastname@example.org -- User: Upamanyuwikitravel 17:55, 28 November 2006 (IST)
and please can you edit some of the stuff if you have time, English isn't my mother tongue.
Don't Support - This article has a lot of listings, but they are very incomplete for an article that would be moved to Star status. I do agree that this article is well on it's way, but almost all of the listings are just "name", "address" and in some cases "link". To be a Star I would think a good portion of the listing should have more complete information (ie: hours, prices, days, hours and a paragraph about the listing). With that done for at least half of the listings (do, see, drink, buy and sleep, plus the edits that User:Maj suggests, and a good Wikitravel map I think we could go with Star. I also notice that this is using the quickbar and I believe that is reserved for Country articles for now. -- Tom Holland (xltel) 16:42, 4 December 2006 (EST)
- Don't support. Most of the listings in this article are neither complete (no addresses, phon enumbers, hours, prices) nor formatted according to the MoS. The tables of travel info aren't covered in the MoS, and I think we need to have a standard before calling any such tables star-worthy. I've only made a cursory review, this is not a comprehensive list of problems. I'd like another chance to review after these problems have been fixed. --Evan 11:18, 22 December 2006 (EST)
- Don't support - this article just finished Wikitravel:Collaboration of the week, and while it was cleaned up a lot, it's still a ways away from Star status, its original Star initiator agrees that it's not there, and it's been discussed for nearly 6 weeks - I think it should be slushed... Cacahuate 01:22, 12 January 2007 (EST)
- As you consider Flores, consider the size of the place. I'm counting somewhere around 40 total city blocks- total- and you have not one, but TWO maps of the area, addresses/phones, everything even remotely worth seeing is included, I see no MOS violations (but then I'm a fairly untrained eye), and in the entire article the only two things I see that need sprucing up are details on ARCAS and the Petencito Zoo (in the sense that if you're including them, you might as well say something about them). Mtvcdm 00:01, 21 November 2006 (EST)
- It's a great article and it might not be too much work to get it to star, but it's not there right now. Keep in mind that to be a Star, it pretty much needs to conform to the Manual of Style perfectly and stuff like phone numbers, hours, and prices should all be present for every listing. Check out Wikitravel:Accommodation listings and see how stuff is supposed to be organized for the Sleep section. Currently the Sleep section formatting is kinda all over the place with placement of URLs, Phone Numbers, prices, and the placement of those annoying commas and full stops. If you choose to press forward with this, that would be great! -- Colin 16:48, 22 November 2006 (EST)
- Agree with Colin; not there yet, but could be pushed to Star status with relatively little effort. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 12:44, 24 November 2006 (EST)
- Ditto Bill. I will nominate this for CotW and that should sort out the MoS. -- Tim 08:34, 25 November 2006 (EST)
- So can this one be slushed? Consensus seems clear that it's not a Star yet. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:44, 8 December 2006 (EST)
- Maybe we can just work on it instead of tossing it back to oblivion? I just cleaned it up a little, but it needs more... Cacahuate 08:17, 9 December 2006 (EST)
- I added some info for ARCAS and the zoo and did more MoS work... what else needs doing? El Remate and a couple other sites in the area seem to be included in this article even though they aren't Flores, but maybe aren't worth their own articles and are so close anyway... I'm fine with them being included here... The Get Out map is great... Cacahuate 08:25, 16 December 2006 (EST)
- We're not going to delete it. How about adding it to Wikitravel:Collaboration of the week? --Evan 09:24, 16 December 2006 (EST)
- of course not, it just seemed to be getting more attention since it was here and up for nomination... I was suggesting we hurry up and fix the few things that are wrong since several of us agree that it's pretty close to star... but anyhoo, whaddya think of the article? Cacahuate 10:14, 16 December 2006 (EST)
- p.s., it already is nominated for CotW, but I didn't feel like waiting for it to have its day and fixed what I could see wrong now, so it should prob not become CotW now as there isn't a ton to do... Cacahuate 10:16, 16 December 2006 (EST)
Hey peoples, User:Windhorse and I have done some more cleanups and additions, any further comments from anyone? Cacahuate 10:27, 20 December 2006 (EST)
- Well, just to give you some idea of the level of perfectionism we're looking for on star article, let me give you an example. The Petencito Zoo is listed, but lacks a phone number, address, directions, hours, prices, and url (if available). Also, there should be a period (full-stop) before the plaintext description of the attraction. It's a great article, it's just that "Star" pretty much means perfect. Cheers! -- Colin 13:04, 5 January 2007 (EST)
- So, I've cleaned it up a bit more and added templates, but it still lacks a few phone #'s (if they exist), and some hours for the drink listings, things I can't get without being there... it's still a great article for such a tiny destination (and this time, unlike Berneray, it matches the thus far defined MoS better)... but I suppose, even after much effort, it still ain't perfect... what to do? Cacahuate 05:32, 13 January 2007 (EST)
Same story as for Pune; someone unilaterally proclaimed it a Star, so (after rolling it back) let's follow due process and discuss it. The article has much to recommend it, but the "nine-cities holy war" means that it is rather unstable, and discussions will be difficult to follow lacking a reference point. Let's try to discuss, anyway. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:00, 15 December 2006 (EST)
Don't support - the Do section is tragically small for a country of England's importance. There's more to do in England than just play golf.
The Get In should be proparly formatted - a list of airports won't do.
The Eat section is quite comprehensive. Perhaps nit could be made a CoW.
Upamanyuwikitravel 08:13, 18 December 2006 (EST)
Don't Support. My issue is the See section; you'd think there'd be a bit more than "England has a large and diverse range of attractions" and then divert the reader to a couple other websites- the point is that this page alone would be all you'd need. Even the most basic things would be enough for me- any four of London Bridge, Hadrian's Wall, Stonehenge, Big Ben, and Buckingham Palace should do it. Mtvcdm 01:49, 24 December 2006 (EST) (Edited to actually log in and then resign.)
good pics. Upamanyuwikitravel 06:08, 5 January 2007 (EST)
- Don't support. We don't have well-defined criteria for star travel topics. I don't even know if such criteria would be meaningful. --Evan 11:12, 5 January 2007 (EST)
- This article needs a new lead photo, the lead photograph was a train in Canada, not India. JYolkowski 13:09, 21 January 2007 (EST)
As a former resident, after having reviewed this city article is seems quite comprehensive. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs) 14:04, 8 January 2007 (EST)
- At a minimum the district articles need to be upgraded to guide status per Wikitravel:City guide status. The map is also a bit bare - it's minimally useful, but not what I'd consider a star article map. Many of the listings have no descriptions, addresses or contact info, and since the article is using the huge city article template the sleep and eat listings should be moved into the district articles. The text could also use work - the article reads as a list of information, rather than a guide to Cleveland. This article has a lot of useful information, but I think it still needs a considerable amount of work before it's a "star" article. -- Ryan 00:58, 9 January 2007 (EST)
- An additional notes, there is a lot of content in this article that is about cities in Greater Cleveland, rather than the city of Cleveland itself, and that content needs to be moved to the appropriate city article. -- Ryan 02:47, 9 January 2007 (EST)
This article is now quite complete and I would like to see some input and comments from the community on what might still be wrong with it or how it can still be improved in order to qualify for star status. NJR_ZA 03:13, 17 January 2007 (EST)
- Don't support, yet! I really like this article, I think it more or less meets all the criteria for being a star except that a lot of the destination articles mentioned on the page are at outline or usable status. If we can increase the number of guide status pages, then I'd support. But for now, although this article would probably be really useful to a traveller, the lack of high quality city articles would be a problem! Having said this, I did only briefly look at the status at the bottom of the city pages - if these are out of date, and enough of them are at guide status then I would happily support this nomination. -- Tim 03:38, 17 January 2007 (EST)
- Good point, thanks. NJR_ZA 03:43, 17 January 2007 (EST)
Quite a comprehensive country article. Needs a bit of re-organizing and MoSing but that's about it. 184.108.40.206 09:45, 21 January 2007 (EST)
- Opinion pending - it is a great article, but all those things should be fixed before it's nominated for star. I also just noticed on the country guide status page that it's the only one that doesn't specify what the sub-articles need to be - For City, Region, etc in order for one to become a star all of the sub-articles would have to be at least "guide" status... I'm curious about people's view on that here: Wikitravel talk:Country guide status ::: Cacahuate 12:24, 21 January 2007 (EST)
- Don't support - I agree with Tim's comment on my submission of South Africa. It's no use having a very good top level country page if there is not enough information to support it in the sub-articles. We will just have to work harder in order to make a country a star. NJR_ZA 13:21, 21 January 2007 (EST)
To be honest I can't think of much more to put in this article. The town isn't bigger than this and I'd appreciate some input if someone is missing something in the article, or if it should be considered complete. Jake73 15:36, 14 February 2007 (EST)
- Abstain for now - Just had a quick look before I'm off to bed. You might want to add eatpricerange and sleeppricerange
- Good idea. Added. (PS: why does the eat box have more space between the lines than the sleep box?)Jake73 16:16, 14 February 2007 (EST)
- Support. The "See" and "Do" sections are not quite in line with the MOS and could do with some specfic shops in the "Buy" section, but overall it is a good article with good photographs and a map. -- DanielC 17:06, 14 February 2007 (EST)
- Don't support. As mentioned above, See and Do don't match attraction listings format. Restaurants and bars need hours and estimated prices. Geocoding would help but isn't strictly necessary. Otherwise, it looks really good. --Evan 17:28, 14 February 2007 (EST)
- Opinion Pending - there's just 1 tiny problem, the prices of restaurants and bars aren't given, nor are the opening hours. Otherwise GREAT article! Once that's been fixed, I'll fully support. Upamanyuwikitravel 04:02, 26 February 2007 (EST)
- Support. Great article. I would like to see more of them.elisa
- Looks great. Listings follow MoS to the dot. No map, only problem - Upamanyuwikitravel 10:59, 18 February 2007 (EST)
- Don't support - nice effort, again, Upamanyu, but we shouldn't really nominate an article until it has everything it needs - if you know it doesn't have a map, then you know it won't pass through this nomination process, and we shouldn't use this page just to draw attention to articles - Cacahuate 11:56, 18 February 2007 (EST)
- Sorry Cacahuate, I just wanted to draw attention to it since someone might take the initiative to make a map once its on the star nominations list. Any others problems with the article?? - I'll try to clean them up. Upamanyuwikitravel 03:52, 19 February 2007 (EST)
- I'll have a look at it later and see if I see anything other than the map, and I'll comment on the Shimla talk page, as I don't want to encourage this page to be used for this purpose, it should be used for articles that are already believed to be right on the cusp or stardom. As an aside, we're slowly talking about making some other sort of page/project that would serve this duty, I'll try to further what I was thinking on that soon too. - Cacahuate 04:21, 19 February 2007 (EST)
I can't think of much more to put in this article. The park and surrounding options has been covered. Edits and clean ups done. Any suggestions? - wikusdutoit 09:00, 3 March 2007 (CAT)
- Don't Support -- I know you put quite a bit of work into this article, but I don't think it is really star potential yet. I'll list my concerns on Talk:Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park rather than here, that way we will have it with the article and can work on getting those things resolved. --NJR_ZA 08:41, 4 March 2007 (EST)
I haven't done much editing to this article, but I think the contributors who have made this article what it is have done a fantastic job, such detailed and reliable information on such an obscure and secretive destination deserves positive recognition --MiddleEastern 13:22, 9 March 2007 (EST)
- Do not support. All of the objections that were raised to declaring Finland a star apply in spades to this one -- rudimentary regional structure, very few destinations within the country that are developed at all, let alone to Guide status, etc. Star status isn't a "reward" for the contributors; it's an evaluation of the content of the article. I agree that contributors have done a fantastic job with a very difficult subject, so maybe give 'em Barnstars, but the article definitely isn't a Star and won't be without a great deal of development. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 13:32, 9 March 2007 (EST)
- Do not support, for the reasons Bill identified. I'd argue for being flexible about some of the Star criteria if (for example) a country only has one or two real cities, but that's not true of North Korea. The fact that it's very difficult to write a guide about North Korea... simply makes getting this article to Star status very difficult; it's not a reason to relax the standards. - Todd VerBeek 18:11, 9 March 2007 (EST)
- Do not support. Check out Wikitravel:Country guide status for what we're looking for if you want to move forward on this. -- Colin 18:23, 9 March 2007 (EST)
We have not had a nomination in a while, so I thought it's time to see what it will take to get the first African star article.
As far as I know this is quite complete, but the town is growing fast and I will be updating it with changes, additions and the occasional delete every January after my yearly visit down there. I know that a new regional shopping mall is due to open later this year, a large hotel is being build and a whole new residential area is being developed, so there will definitely be an update early next year.
So, let's have it, tell me what I missed and what still needs to be done to make this one a star. --NJR_ZA 18:11, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
- It's a very good article, but the map has several unlabeled short dead-end streets... OK, maybe that's not important. :) I do have to say that I'm a little uncomfortable with some of the photos of businesses. I know: they're welcomed in the Japanese WT, but here in English we've avoided them, and I'm concerned about the slippery slope of encouraging hoteliers and resauranteurs to use the power of images to spotlight their place over others', and the perception of it as advertising. As a traveler, I prefer to see more general photos of the shopping district rather than specific shops. I can see the value of showing a specific store/hotel/whatever as an example of what to expect, but a photo of just a sign ceases to have that kind of general usefulness and looks more like an advert to me. It could have some copyright/trademark-law implications as well. I'm not sure this is the place to debate this issue, nor whether it's applicable to the question of Star status, but... there it is. - Todd VerBeek 20:22, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
- Good points, thanks for the feedback. I think the photos for Billabong and Walskipper should be OK. Both are landmarks in the area and JBay is Billabong Country (the entrance to JBay is even marked as such). I'll remove the sign and vfd the image. The Mexican and Marina Martinique B&B images I can replace with something more general (one thing I am not short of is JBay photos). --NJR_ZA 03:53, 4 May 2007 (EDT)
- Don't support - it's got a lot of potential and is a good article, but many listings are very sparse - need descriptions, address, hours, estimated prices, etc for every listing. Some directional things would be nice too... for example, where is the internet cafe, the gym, the gift shops and the laundromat? It doesn't describe them in the article and they aren't on the map. Once that and Todd's picture issues are sorted though, I think it's a good contender for Star status. Nice map... That must have taken you forever with all the tiny curvy lanes! Could you add a scale to it, I'm curious about the distances... – cacahuate talk 23:58, 7 May 2007 (EDT)
- Thanks, noted. I'll have a look into those issues. I don't think this one is going to make it this time round, but I'd still like to see some more comments. I'd like to use this feedback to expand Wikitravel:Status_rating a bit so people (including myself) will have a clearer idea of what is required. --NJR_ZA 01:00, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
- As a meta-note, it's unusual for us to have a "nominations" page where the nominator typically doesn't believe that the thing they're nominating deserves the status they're nominating it for. I think we really need a separate process for this, since it's really confusing for people.--Evan 11:29, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
- I agree that a request for peer review type page will be a good idea, but that is actually not why I nominated this. I was going thru some of the stuff I have worked on before and noted that this does actually comply with Wikitravel:Status_rating; so when I nominated it I did not expect that it will have any major issues becoming a star. Having seen the comments I have changed my mind and am quite sure that it needs quite a bit more work before it will be ready. I'd like to take these and any additional comments and create a more complete checklist of what the minimum requirements are. That way one has a list of requirements to tick off rather than just a vague follows the manual of style exactly and has appropriate illustrations, such as photos and a map. --NJR_ZA 00:05, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
- I think expanding the requirements (or detailing them) is a great idea. And we do need something similar to Peer Review, we've talked a little about it over the last few months, but nothing has transpired as of yet... see Wikitravel_talk:Star_articles#Star_Potential. I believe in you Nick, wow us with an amazing new idea (and actually implement it!). Something needs to happen :) – cacahuate talk 02:33, 10 May 2007 (EDT)
- Want to support, but... Good article, great map & photos, but as others have pointed out listings need a description for it to be a star article, otherwise we risk developing yet another yellow pages. -- Ryan • (talk) • 00:44, 9 May 2007 (EDT)