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Difference between revisions of "Wikitravel:Star nominations"

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*'''Note:''' Please refresh the page before reviewing, as I've made some major changes recently and I don't want you to get caught by the caching bug.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 21:53, 12 September 2010 (EDT)
*'''Note:''' Please refresh the page before reviewing, as I've made some major changes recently and I don't want you to get caught by the caching bug.  [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 21:53, 12 September 2010 (EDT)
*'''Support:''' It looks comprehensive, well written and well formatted. I have never been there so can make no judgement on accuracy. I could not read it all, my brain started to melt after a while, but I found no formatting, spelling or grammatical error in what I could manage. Disney is not my cup of tea, but this looks like a very good guide. [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] <small><sup>[[User_Talk:Pbsouthwood|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:54, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
*'''Support:''' It looks comprehensive, well written and well formatted. I have never been there so can make no judgement on accuracy. I could not read it all, my brain started to melt after a while, but I found no formatting, spelling or grammatical error in what I could manage. Disney is not my cup of tea, but this looks like a very good guide. [[User:Pbsouthwood|Peter (Southwood)]] <small><sup>[[User_Talk:Pbsouthwood|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:54, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
*'''Support.''' [imitating Lumiere from ''Beauty and the Beast''] C'est magnifique. Congratulations on a job well done. [[User:Jonathan 784|Jonathan 784]] 12:34, 24 September 2010 (EDT)
==Nominations to remove Star status==
==Nominations to remove Star status==

Revision as of 16:38, 24 September 2010

This is where we determine whether an article is ready for be classified as Star status. Even though the criteria are fairly objective, it's good to get some additional eyes to look over a page and confirm that it's ready before elevating it to Star. For reference, here's the general description, from Wikitravel:Article status:

The article is essentially complete. It meets all of the above criteria. It follows the manual of style exactly or is the exception that proves the rule. Prose is not only near-perfect grammatically but also tight, effective, and enjoyable. It has appropriate illustrations, such as photos and a map. Enough breadth and depth of material is presented that anyone familiar with the subject of the article would have little to point out as absent. Future changes to this kind of article would reflect changes in the subject (e.g. a museum closes, a hotel price changes, a new airport is built) more than they'd require improvements in the coverage.

Objective criteria for Star status varies depending on the kind of article it is. For more concrete guidance on this, see:

If you feel that an article currently at Star status is no longer worthy, or never was to begin with, this is also the place to nominate to de-star an article.



Star articles: Last minute checklist

  • The article must be complete — See definition above.
  • Grammar and spelling must be perfect — See definition above. Prose should be stylistically superior and effective.
  • Illustration: the article should be appropriately illustrated with pictures and a Wikitravel-style map, with all attractions marked.
  • Listings should be in alphabetical order — geographical order is also acceptable if it is deemed better.
  • No duplications: a listing should appear under one section only — if there is ambiguity, put it under the section that it most applies to.
  • Time and date formats: Use: M,Tu,W,Th,F,Sa,Su; "...daily" not "Daily..."; "midnight and noon" not "12AM and 12PM"; "AM PM" not "am pm". (Examples: "M-F noon-11PM" and "9AM-9PM daily").
  • Section introductions are not mandatory but should be present when they serve to improve a section.
  • Use "—" (mdash) for breaks in thought.
  • Use abbreviations for addresses, e.g., St, Ave, Ln, Blvd.

You can nominate any "guide" quality article you think is ready to be declared a "star". Please do not nominate an article if you know that it falls short of the criterion above — refer to the info box for a last minute checklist. If there are other nominations on this page, add yours to the bottom of the list. The basic format of a nomination is as follows:

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for,
plus a swell kitchen sink. ~~~~

Having done this, please replace the {{guide...}} tag with


at the bottom of the nominated article. You also need to post a note at the Wikitravel:Travellers' Pub to publicize your nomination — remember to tell people that partial critiques and even just a few quick words of support are welcome. These steps help draw attention to the article's nomination, improving the discussion as to whether it should be awarded star status.


Please comment on whether you agree that the nominated article is ready, with a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion. If you think it's ready, a simple "Support" will do. If not, explain what you think is missing or not up to standards. You don't have to leave a detailed critique to vote on the star — partial critiques are welcome, and feel free to just voice your support for the hard work someone else has done.

===[[Article name]]===
This has everything we're looking for, plus a swell kitchen sink.  TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* The sink isn't properly formatted, and there are no "budget" places to sleep. ~~~~

After three weeks of discussion, if a consensus is reached, then that article becomes a star, and the discussion should be archived. Note that a consensus means that all outstanding objections should have been addressed and dropped; if issues remain then the discussion should either continue or, if they cannot or will not be addressed in reasonable time, the article should be added to the slush pile. Regardless of the outcome, it is useful to copy the nomination discussion to the article's talk page.

Archiving checklist

  • Remove the nomination discussion from this page and paste it to both the archives and to the talk page of the new star article;
  • Add the article to Wikitravel:Star articles;
  • Update the article status template on the article from guide to star;
  • Add {{title-icons|star-icon}} to the bottom of the article;
  • Add the article to the top of the list on the Main Page, and remove the oldest star article from the bottom of the list.

Nominations for Star status

For an archive of previous successful nominations please see Wikitravel:Star nominations/Archives.


I'm putting this forth as I've put a good deal of effort to get it in line with all the required elements to be a Star article. Just now I've cleaned up the Get Out section to link to only live pages (which meant creating a good number of them) and have added a map. With this, I feel that it is ready for Star status. Primecoordinator 17:49, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

  • Not yet. I haven't read through the article carefully, but a few problems jump out immediately. First and foremost, the article needs to have a Wikitravel-style map (Wikitravel:How to draw a map/Wikitravel:How to create a map), with all listings marked. If you are up to the task of finishing up the rest of the necessary tasks for star status, my hunch is that a mapmaker will be happy to volunteer.
Other issues that stand out while skimming: 1) contact details missing for many listings; 2) more description is needed for most listings outside the see section; 3) I think it would be desirable to add more eat and drink listings; 4) eat listings should be sorted by price.
I hope this is helpful, rather than discouraging, as it would be wonderful to have our first Spanish star article! At present, though, it seems to be "merely" a fine guide-status article. Surprisingly, we don't really have any star articles to look at that are a comparable size to Figueres, but Hilversum (pop. 80,000) might be a good example to look to, although it clearly is longer than the Figueres article should be. --Peter Talk 13:05, 10 March 2010 (EST)
Actually yes, it is discouraging as the standards for Star articles aren't evenly applied at all, no matter how spelled out it is. And how the hell do you rate something as a 'Not yet' before you've even finished it?!! I find that to be more an attempt to "be first" in reviewing as opposed to actually writing a proper review. As for the map, if I had known there were more specific standards on them, then I wouldn't have wasted my time, thanks... Many aspects of Wikitravel have been generally quite hard to find, so it's no wonder that certain areas are lacking content. Also, there are some Star articles that don't have maps. In regards to breaking down the listings for food and drink, that's rather insane beyond the hotels. This is a town of 40,000 people, not a metropolis like Barcelona with 2 million. Drinks are the same cost everywhere and food varies maybe 10€ between a "hi end" and "low end" restaurant. At this point, if someone else wants to take up the mantle and finish this out, such as the map, that would be great. Otherwise, I've spent more than enough time on it and you can continue to have Spain without any Star articles as Barcelona and Madrid seem to be stuck amidst infighting which it seems this community breeds more of than any sense of cohesion towards a better product. Primecoordinator 19:13, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm terribly sorry to have come across as discouraging, I really am just trying to give constructive criticism to help build a better product ;) (I couldn't care less about "being first"—I'm usually last.) I say not yet, because without having done a thorough read through, there are a couple obstacles that clearly stand in the way of star status (notably the map). The guidelines/criteria for star status are at Wikitravel:City guide status.
By the way, drink listings do not need price ranges, as you may see from reading other star articles. Also, which star articles do not have maps? They should be demoted if this is true. --Peter Talk 14:27, 10 March 2010 (EST)
Hey Primecoordinator, please do not be discouraged by this. It is a strong guide, but the demands for star status are rightly very high. Once you have an eye for star articles, it is quite easy to have a preliminary read, and to notice things that are missing. That is exactly what Peter did in a constructive way. It is very possible for small, little known destinations to reach star status: see Sheki (pop 65,000) and Nusa Lembongan (pop 8,000), as well as Hilversum, already mentioned. If a map is the biggest issue (I suspect it is), then I can help out by drawing it. What I obviously can't do though is place all the icons etc, so I would need your guidance on that. --Burmesedays 21:55, 10 March 2010 (EST)
Yeah, I can help with that when you pull it together. I've never used this mapping system and would need some guidance for for. Primecoordinator 09:25, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
  • Support - Have uploaded a more proper map. Can provide the illustrator file if anyone feels like truing anything up. Primecoordinator 21:18, 04 April 2010 (UTC)
Also flesh out a proper History section Primecoordinator 21:20, 04 April 2010 (UTC)
Hmm. What is the base source you used for tracing that map please? There are no free sources I could find with that level of detail, and you have not indicated the source on the map mark up. Also, if you were doing this, it would have been nice tell me and I would not have wasted time. --Burmesedays 21:46, 4 April 2010 (EDT)
I posted a reply on the Talk page over a week ago and assumed that as you hadn't responded you had given up on me. Also, I was hoping to start with what you had created, but you only uploaded the png and not any svg file to work with that I could see. As to the source, it's based on my knowledge of having lived there, an aerial photo my wife took as a teenager (it's her home town), and cross reference with the city tourism guide. Some of this may appear off with the Google Map, which for some reason is incorrect in number of items. And yeah, the Open Street Map is practically non-existent. --Primecoordinator 11:51, 05 April 2010 (UTC)
The SVG is now uploaded (this would not normally be done until the map is finished). Just go ahead and use if it is helpful.

After a far from thorough read, I will try to post an audit list of what I think needs to happen to this article to get it to star standard.

  • Needs an opening paragraph that makes you want to go there.
  • Talk section needs wikilinks to Catalan and Spanish phrasebooks.
  • Get in section needs cities to be wikilinked, and the wikilink to Ryanair should be removed (there is no such article).
  • See section. All formal attractions need opening hours and admission prices. If no admission it should say so.
  • Do section. Is there no theatre or cinema in the town? Or anything else to do?
  • Buy section. Shops need opening hours and phone numbers.
  • Eat section. Restaurants need opening hours, phone numbers and prices.
  • Drink Section. Bars and Wineries need phone numbers and hours.
  • Sleep section. A sleeppricerange table would be good. All hotels need prices.
  • Stay safe section. Add the police station contact details and address.
  • Cope - no section at the moment. Hospital details would be good, plus libraries?
  • Contact - no section at the moment. Internet cafes? Post office? The area dialing code.

That's a start at least on specifics. Other small things, I have just gone ahead and changed. --Burmesedays 10:33, 5 April 2010 (EDT)

Thanks for the map. As to some items that you bring up:
  • Opening paragraph rewritten.
  • Talk linked out.
  • For Get in, not really sure what you're getting at. Is it standard style to re-link cities in Get In? And as for Ryanair, that should just link out to their main site, no?
A lot of the phone numbers just aren't going to happen. I'm not there currently and so it's impossible to look these things up as many of the places have no websites. I've added the ones that were easy to find. And answering the phone in general is a hit and miss thing. Most people just show up. I'll add the Cope and Contact sections when I get a chance as they're easy.
But, here's a large question for the community, in that why bother putting the exact prices for hotels? They change often, vary by season and nearly impossible to keep up to date. Shouldn't we do like most guides do and just keep them in general price ranges? I mean, people have to call or visit their website to make a reservation anyways so as long as they know that they're calling something in the Splurge range, that should be all, no? I ask this as when searching for hotels, even on their own websites the prices are never up to date, so I just ignore them. Seems like a useless, tedious thing to keep up on. --Primecoordinator 11:27, 06 April 2010 (UTC)
I suggest you do what you can with phone numbers. Some of the missing ones are easy - I just managed to find two with a Google search, eg TOT ART and Pastisseria Serra Lacasa. I appreciate that some may be harder. If they exist though a very large effort ought to be made to find them. An email to the local town council might be a good start.--Burmesedays 08:15, 6 April 2010 (EDT)

Bangkok/Yaowarat and Pahurat

I've put effort in this article to try to make it qualify for star status. It must be the best guide on this area, far better than the available commercial guides. --globe-trotter 09:51, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

  • Very close - I think this is a very solid nomination. The info is good, the map is great, and there seems to be a solid number of listings. But there are a few small things which stop me from giving a full vote of support - forgive the nitpicking, but it's necessary:
  1. The first, and really the most important one in my mind, is that many of the listings lack a proper amount of address info, just the street (I'll use Wat Chakrawat as an example, but there are others). I understand that a formal address may not exist (and even if it did, it might not be very useful in such a complex district), but surely there could be more info. Perhaps an intersection, or which two streets the place lies between? Something to give me a better idea of exactly where it's located.
  2. Purely aesthetic, but when I opened the article I was struck by the solid wall of text in the introduction. Could we divide that into a couple more paragraphs? Just so it doesn't look so intimidating...
  3. Two budget eat listings, Yen Ta Fo Je Hieng and Samrat, lack prices. Also, could we have one of those price range boxes in the Eat section, like the one you have in Sleep?
  4. Texas Hotel lacks contact info and prices. PerryPlanet Talk 17:43, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
Thanks for your input! Let me go at this case by case:
  1. I've tried to add descriptions to some of the listings, if you're still unsatisfied, let me know which listings you'd like to be improved. Getting addresses is really a headache, I've really tried my best to find any I can, so descriptions will have to suffice (especially with the temples).
  2. I moved a part of the introduction to "Understand" to make it feel a bit less intimidating. I hope that's okay.
  3. I've added prices to the 2 restaurants and added the price range box.
  4. I removed the Texas Hotel as it was added by someone else, but as far as I know it, I don't think its a great add anyway (and I cannot find contact details anywhere). --globe-trotter 19:48, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
Much better! I will support now! PerryPlanet Talk 20:07, 12 July 2010 (EDT)
A few suggestions/questions
  1. The intro appears almost only to talk about Yaowarat and not about Pahurat. Maybe one or two sentences about Pahurat could be added
  2. History: Teochew is the old spelling, should be replaced by Chaozhou
  3. It appears a bit random whether the name of listings are written in Thai as well. It could be considered to add the Thai name for more listings
  4. Are there no splurge restaurants in the district?
  5. There must be somewhere in the district where you can have a drink or a beer?
  6. Are there no splurge hotels in the district?, --ClausHansen 02:30, 18 July 2010 (EDT)
I'm with Claus on the consistency in Thai names, I know it's tricky since I tried searching for a few of them to have them added, with little luck - but if it all possible, that would be nice. One or two real drink listings would certainly be nice too. But none of those are really show stoppers if it isn't possible to add them, and there is already prose in the drink section... Oh, and nice work! --Stefan (sertmann) talk 09:40, 18 July 2010 (EDT)
  1. I've added a sentence about Pahurat in there (but it generally is the less visited and less interesting neighborhood of the two)
  2. Changed it to Chaozhou
  3. You're right that it seems a bit random. The idea I followed is: add it where I can find it. I don't speak Thai so for me its impossible to write it. For the ones listed, I got them from Google or Wikipedia. There's two ways to fix this: 1. get a Thai speaker to add them, or 2. remove them all. Or follow the path I did, Hiroshima also does not have all listings with Japanese characters.
  4. There are no splurge restaurants, it is generally a quite "amateurish" neighborhood (as many other Chinatowns around the world)
  5. I've roamed around a lot there, but they don't have bars in the traditional sense as most Westerners know it. That's why I added the coffee joints for some drinks, I wouldn't know what else to add there. I did elaborate a bit about Yaowarat's hawker stalls as that's where most people just get some iced chocolate or something.
  6. Splurge hotels have the same explanation as splurge eateries — this is not a fancy district, so they don't exist. For that, people go to Sukhumvit or Silom.

--globe-trotter 10:41, 18 July 2010 (EDT)

For the Hiroshima article, it was agreed that the attractions in the "See" section should list the Japanese names and that it would be a good idea to do this for all foreign scripts. ChubbyWimbus 20:41, 21 July 2010 (EDT)
Well, I've spend the whole weekend finding my Thai friends and trying to get the Thai words for the attractions. Even many Thais have no idea how to write many of them, but I have managed to find all of the See section except for Wat Ga Buang Kim -- but this temple is so unbelievably small and unknown, the only way to find it is if I go back there to ask. I hope its okay now with the Thai scripts. --globe-trotter 12:49, 28 July 2010 (EDT)
  • Support. It's a fantastic article, with a beautiful map, and I'll enjoy turning Thailand pink on the map. I haven't yet had an opportunity to give it a close read, but will try to remember to do so—even after starring. --Peter Talk 22:11, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
  • Support It's an excellent article and it paves the road for the rest of Bangkok. jan 11:46, 25 August 2010 (EDT)
  • Support Looks good to me. Peter (Southwood) Talk 08:22, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

Yaowarat and Pahurat Tour

Together with the district I've also created a walking tour article through the area, which is somewhat modeled after Along the Magnificent Mile. Let me know whether you think its star worthy. --globe-trotter 09:51, 12 July 2010 (EDT)

  • Support Nice article about a tour in a of-the-beaten track area. ViMy 12:12, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
  • Support. Another beautiful article, and a feather in the Bangkok guide's cap. I'll try to give a closer read when I have time to provide whatever copyediting help may be useful—even if after starring. --Peter Talk 22:13, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
  • Support. It looks like a busy day. One or two small things. It would be nice to know roughly the distance to be walked in each section. If this is mentioned, it is not obvious. There are also instances of unusual English usage. In general this does not bother me greatly, but I will try to sort out the more confusing ones where I can. Peter (Southwood) Talk 14:28, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
    • A busy day indeed :) I will update the map in the following 2 weeks and add the distance to it. I'm also thinking of changing the direction a little bit so the route doesn't overlap at Soi Issaranuphap. What do you think of this? --globe-trotter 22:00, 9 September 2010 (EDT)
      • I cant find Soi Issaranuphap on the map, so can't comment on your suggestion. However I can recommend making the road names more legible, maybe put the numbers where they dont overlap the text. Peter (Southwood) Talk 16:53, 11 September 2010 (EDT)

I've had a chance to do a careful read through of the article, and it's really one of the best in-shape star nominations I've seen. It's a really pleasant read through, and makes a really compelling case to put in the effort for the sweaty full day tour. The only cavil I have is with a couple turns of phrase duplicated in the district article, since readers will likely go over both articles when touring the area. I noted the two instances that I recognized.

Also, it's been well past the deadline for new comments, so please, by all means, add the stars to the articles! I'll be sure to light up Thailand on the stars map once you do. --Peter Talk 23:33, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

Oh, and I don't really know what barbecued prawns would be, but I think I'd eat the hell out of that! --Peter Talk 23:37, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

Russian phrasebook

I'm hoping for some good feedback on this nomination, as it would be our first star phrasebook, and I'm not exactly sure what that will mean yet. It does rather clearly meet the requirements as currently written, but we may find that those should be tightened.

My understanding of Russian as a learned language is pretty strong, and it has also been thoroughly checked by several native speakers, so I am quite confident in its accuracy both in terms of English idioms and Russian translations. I'm more interested to see if others think it is as complete as it needs to be, and whether additional features could be added that we haven't really thought of yet. --Peter Talk 16:04, 13 August 2010 (EDT)

I want to hold off on a vote of support until I see other people weigh in on this, but this looks pretty solid to me. I can't think of any useful expressions you're missing here, but a couple of thoughts do cross my mind - in a couple of consonants in the pronunciation guide, you say something is pronounced like "___ in Spanish". Now, being from a region where a lot of Spanish is spoken, this isn't a problem for me, but I could imagine some English speaker looking at a ñ and thinking "huh?". The other thing is that very last expression on the list (Can I just pay a fine now?) - when you say "bribe", is that legal and/or commonly accepted? Don't want anyone getting in trouble here... PerryPlanet Talk 19:32, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
In virtually every country shaded green on that map, the "Can I pay the fine now?" phrase is unfortunately a pretty common way of interacting with "law enforcement"... particularly when caught peeing outside a bar or trying to cross the freaking border.
I addressed the unclear Spanish ñ bit. --Peter Talk 20:41, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
Based on my experience in Russia, I'd rank "Can I pay the fine now?" behind only "Thank you" and "Sorry/excuse me" on the list of phrases travelers should know. (And I wish I was joking.) Gorilla Jones 20:53, 13 August 2010 (EDT)

Since this isn't getting a ton of input (or any votes), I'll muse a bit on the question of what should a phrasebook ideally include:

  1. More images? The page is awfully black and white, which isn't visually appealing. On the other hand, I can't really think of a meaningful way to illustrate it beyond the map and alphabet key. Also, phrasebooks are likely to be printed from internet cafes, which may make it more important to keep images to a minimum. Anyhow, does anyone have suggestions on possible illustrations?
  2. More introductory prose? On what, exactly?
  3. Are there other categories of phrases not listed that would be helpful?

If given a bit of guidance, I definitely have the knowledge to add anything else that people would like to see. --Peter Talk 21:59, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

Phrasebooks are definitely not my forte. I will say that I'm not clear on the format of the pronunciation guide. For example, it says "e yeh - like yet" "e" is clearly the letter, but what is "yeh"? LtPowers 22:23, 14 August 2010 (EDT)
Yeh is the way the letter is pronounced. That is, the y part is integral to the pronunciation. I changed the example to yesterday, which might be more immediately understandable, I hope! --Peter Talk 17:11, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
Yeah, I figured that out, but the way it's organized is a bit confusing. It's hard to explain, but the way it's written, with <dd> and <dt> tags, implies that "e yeh" is what is being "defined", with "yesterday" the "definition" -- it implies that e and yeh are alternatives. In actual fact, it's "e" that is being "defined" with "yeh" part of the explanation. LtPowers 10:45, 16 August 2010 (EDT)
Questions like "Where are you taking me?" are not accompanied by any possible options. If you ask a question, the most probable answers should be listed in order to understand the response, don't you think? Otherwise, the question is not particularly useful to ask.
Are there any experiences that one would often have in Russia or special topics that Russians are likely to talk about that would make sense to add to the phrasebook? For example, the Swahili phrasebook has a safari section with animals. Although that guide is nowhere near completion, special sections are where it is difficult to evaluate a phrasebook. ChubbyWimbus 17:47, 15 August 2010 (EDT)
I feel this is a little short for something to be a star. I'd like to see more food vocabulary...there's a dozen works now, how about the names of some fruits & vegetables. The authority section could use a few more phrases given it's significance in the region...My papers (visa) are in order, take me to the police station, I will not pay any fine until I speak to your police chief, etc. How do I ask "What time is it?". A few more directions could be added: where is a good (cheap) restaurant, what neighborhood am I in, how far is (name of town), where is the nearest subway station. Some adjectives would be useful: small/big, a lot/a little, interesting, expensive, hot, cold. And like ChubbyWimbus addresses, responses to questions you may be asked are also quite important! As for something interesting to insert, rather than pictures, a colored infobox might do the can address topics like deciphering addresses, names (Sveta=Svetlana, Sacha=Alexander, etc), how language/city names have changed since the soviet days, or (if there are any) common geographical names (ie. island, new/old, bay, village, upper/lower, etc). Keep in mind that the goal of a star page on WT is to be complete and lacking a desire to use another source. AHeneen 11:51, 19 August 2010 (EDT)
Great feedback. I'll get to work on satisfying these requests. --Peter Talk 12:59, 19 August 2010 (EDT)
Might be nice to have a section for major dialects — if there are any significant variances between how the language is spoken in Moscow compared to, say, Yakutsk, whether that be in terms of vocabulary or accent. It wouldn't have to go into great detail, and could mostly just link to the relevant sections of those articles if they have 'Talk' sections. Gorilla Jones 01:48, 22 August 2010 (EDT)

Never use phrasebooks (I think I should), so difficult to comment--but if you have specific questions, I'd be happy to try answering.

As for paying fine right now, do we really need to emphasize in phrasebook (rather than in a destination guide) that it implies offering a bribe? Asking for an option to pay immediately is absolutely legitimate from a western tourist's point of view, and yes, he should expect a receipt etc. But if/when Russian law enforcement guys start being able to officially accept fines ad hoc, with receipts etc--should we change phrasebook to reflect that? I believe phrasebook should only help to translate. --DenisYurkin 18:10, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

A phrasebook certainly should provide cultural notes on when a phrase is appropriate to use, as it can vary widely. LtPowers 20:18, 2 September 2010 (EDT)

Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Partridge Point

This site has been improved a lot over the last few months. The map is not quite ready, but needs comment. The svg has not yet been uploaded, but that is just a matter of doing it when the map is right. Other than that, I think the article meets most, if not all the criteria, and by nominating it I hope to get suggestions on what more is needed. I look forward to the creative criticism that helped get Diving the Cape Peninsula and False Bay/Pinnacle to star.

Partridge Point is a large dive site compared with Pinnacle, and it is much better known among the local divers, and has been quite popular for years. However, the development of the Wikitravel article seems to have pushed up the number of dive charters advertised for the site this season, and the mapping of the site has opened up new parts of it. Local divers are getting the message and starting to use the guide. I just wish a few of them would start contributing, but with luck this will happen eventually.

Besides that, it has been great fun to map, and see the layout unfold itself gradually as I get the data from the GPS tracks onto Inkscape. Peter (Southwood) Talk 13:25, 16 August 2010 (EDT)

  • Uncertain I already had a close look and in general i like this article. I'm not a diver so i can't comment on the quality of the routing and your hints. The only thing i'm really missing is a map on how to get to this route (some sort of get in section) on the landside. If others say the diving part is good, i would support the article. jan 15:43, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
Although the dive site is close to the shore, it is a boat access dive for several reasons, the most important being that you have to cross private land to get to the shore near enough to swim there, so although there is a dirt track to a house at the point, it has a locked gate and divers may not use it, even if they wanted to (the main road is 100m above the shore at this point - a long steep walk in dive gear with about 30 to 40kg of cylinder and weights). I have done this as a shore dive in about 1984, and would not willingly do so again. Therefore, no point in indicating a path on land, it would only get people into trouble. Cheers, Peter (Southwood) Talk 10:51, 5 September 2010 (EDT)
I have added a sub-article on the launch site (see also below) which should help address the access issue, and have also changed the text to clarify. Peter (Southwood) Talk 02:43, 7 September 2010 (EDT)
  • Support: I like it! Seascapeza 22:32, 5 September 2010 (EDT)
  • having managed to finish my RL deadline early (wonders never cease) some more thoughts on this article: is it perhaps an idea to give a map on how to get to Millers Point slipway? Along with a helpful hint about not to park in the wrong place?
Also, why is Geology not a proper subheading? (it's under 'areas around Partridge Point' which makes it look like it's the Geology of the areas around Partridge Point and not the geology of Partridge)
and why, in the Geology section, is Peninsula in italics?
then, what protocol do you use to determine which animals get capital letters and which don't? for example:
'Hottentot seabream, Roman, Galjoen, Blacktail, Fransmadam and Zebra may be seen here, and also puffadder shy sharks. ' why no caps for sharks?
and here:
'Large shoals of small fish such as Hottentot sea bream and Fransmadam are frequently seen, and smaller groups of larger reef fish such as Roman, John Brown, Two-tone fingerfin and Galjoen. Cryptic species such as klipfish and redfingers are fairly common. '
then: swim-through or swimthrough? you have both.
all I can add is that there are several mentions of parts of the site which have not yet been mapped in detail -- should these mentions stay in or should they be ignored/deleted for now and then added in when the descriptions exist?
Apart from that, I still say Support.
Seascapeza 11:23, 6 September 2010 (EDT)
Hi Seascapeza. Thanks for the useful comments. In approximate order:
Map idea is good, the route map in the main article is not really sufficient on its own, and there are a large number of sites serviced by Miller's Point slipway, so I have started a sub-article for the Miller's Point slipway which can be linked from all of the sites which are accessed from there. All useful advice for the slipway can be at this one place. I guess I will have to do the same for all the other major launch sites eventually. The current map I have there is a placeholder until I get to drawing a better one. What do you think? Any useful comments on the format/template of the launch site article?
Geology has been a minor subsection of topography since the original dive site template was designed and reached consensus. I have moved it to below the leader paragraph of the topography section where it now obviously applies to the whole area. This could be changed, but for consitency would then have to be changed for all the dive sites, and geology is not a major heading.
I use italics to indicate geological formation names, in much the same way they are used with genus and species. It is not a universal convention, but it is a way of indicating that the names dont just refer to a place. Capitals would not help here.
I use capitals for the first word of a common name for a species. This is to indicate that it is a specific name and not a generalised description. Otherwise how would a reader know that a Walking anemone is not just an anemone walking, as an example. Usage is erratic and I have tried to clean up, but may have missed a few. Feel free to correct on sight. For example, klipfish and Redfingers, but Blue-spotted klipfish. I am open to better suggestions.
Swim-through vs swimthrough. Not fussy, have changed all to swim-through for consistancy. If you prefer the other way, go ahead and change them.
Parts not yet mapped: I dont know, do you think it is more useful to the diver to mention that the places are not mapped yet, or just not mention them. Might it encourage the adventurous diver to go out and explore where lack of any comment might imply lack of any interesting things to see?
Finally, as a diver, could you comment on jan's reservations (above) about the usefulness of the diving information? Peter (Southwood) Talk 02:37, 7 September 2010 (EDT)

I have just uploaded the latest versions of all the maps and the svg. The False Bay west side season is drawing to an end, and the article may be as complete as I can get it until next winter, so I will give it another few days until 14 days have elapsed since the last person commented, and unless there are any others who wish to comment in that time, will then upgrade to star. Peter (Southwood) Talk 15:14, 17 September 2010 (EDT)


I'm nominating this one now as it is soon to be a OTBP feature and it would be mighty nice for it to be a star when its up there. I don't think it is too far off star-hood but no doubt others we spot the wrinkles I missed. Cardboardbird 00:12, 3 September 2010 (EDT)

  • Close Full support jan 09:11, 24 September 2010 (EDT)I have seen the article in the past several times and really liked it's improvement. Here are my points: The Get in by plane section is not fully listingfied as in Nusa Lembongan. The distances are already discussed on the talk page and it should be clarified how long it takes. Last point is that the map. When i look at the Kimberly map the border to NT looks pretty close. Is Kununurra a interstate border town? Then in the get in section not only the distance to Katherine should be named but also how far the border for Quarantine is. All in all very good manageable for star before the otbp premiere starts. Excellent job! jan 15:40, 3 September 2010 (EDT)
  • Support Looks pretty good to me. Possibly a map to show where it is in context of the rest of Australia would be useful, though a click on the Kimberley link gets that anyway. It is just that as an OTBP, people will tend to wonder where it is, as they are unlikely to have heard of it, and most non-Australians, even if they have heard of the Kimberleys, probably dont know exactly where they are. Peter (Southwood) Talk 04:01, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

Walt Disney World

I think it's finally ready. I've put everything I can think of into this guide. It's very long, but there's really not anything left that can be split to the district articles. I would appreciate a very careful review, as I think this could be a model for other similar articles if the community decides it's worthy of the coveted star. LtPowers 21:49, 12 September 2010 (EDT)

  • Note: Please refresh the page before reviewing, as I've made some major changes recently and I don't want you to get caught by the caching bug. LtPowers 21:53, 12 September 2010 (EDT)
  • Support: It looks comprehensive, well written and well formatted. I have never been there so can make no judgement on accuracy. I could not read it all, my brain started to melt after a while, but I found no formatting, spelling or grammatical error in what I could manage. Disney is not my cup of tea, but this looks like a very good guide. Peter (Southwood) Talk 15:54, 17 September 2010 (EDT)
  • Support. [imitating Lumiere from Beauty and the Beast] C'est magnifique. Congratulations on a job well done. Jonathan 784 12:34, 24 September 2010 (EDT)

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