*I don't know that July is the best time to feature Rochester, but if we don't, we'll be waiting until next spring. (The most important festivals are in May and June). [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 15:48, 16 June 2010 (EDT)
*I don't know that July is the best time to feature Rochester, but if we don't, we'll be waiting until next spring. (The most important festivals are in May and June). [[User:LtPowers|LtPowers]] 15:48, 16 June 2010 (EDT)
You can nominate an article you would like to see featured; just say a few words about why, and select a good time to go. Well-known and/or popular destinations should be nominated as Destination of the Month, while more obscure destinations should be nominated for Off the Beaten Path. Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the "What is an article?" test is eligible for DotM/OtBP.
The basic format of a nomination is as follows:
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. ~~~~
However, before nominating, please check that the article follows these basic guidelines:
The nominated article should have an article status of guide or star. This includes having at least one good picture, and listings/headers/etc. that match our manual of style.
The nominated article should be featured at a good time to visit.
The nominated article must not have been featured previously.
If you think a once-slushed destination is now ready to go, list it as new, but with a pointer to the slush pile entry.
You can also comment on any previous nomination based on timeliness and adherence to the criteria above, just add a bullet point (*) and your signed opinion.
Great article and it's just luvvly-jubbly in the springtime. TravelNut 25:25, 31 Feb 2525 (EDT)
* Looks nice, but shouldn't the Do section contain more than just quilting contests? ~~~~
If an article gets several comments in favor and none against for a week or so, it's eligible to be placed in an appropriate time-slot in the queue.
Please note that the following are not considered valid reasons to oppose a nomination:
"I don't like it." All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc do not count.
"Wrong time of year." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Timing can be worked out later.
"Wrong type of place." Articles are supported or opposed based on their content. Whether it's DoTM or OtBP can be worked out later.
Discussions for previously selected destinations are in the Archive. Discussions for nominations that didn't make the grade are in the Slush pile.
Upcoming DOTM / OTBP
The following queue should contain about six months' worth of upcoming destinations. Note that new DotMs are rotated in on the 1st of each month, while OtBPs are changed on the 15th.
These are not cast in stone, and the order can be changed if, for example, an excellent guide for a timely event is found. Whenever a guide becomes a current feature, it should be removed from the list, the discussion archived, and a new month added to the end of the queue. Alternatives are OK; the whole point is to enable some discussion as needed.
The section below provides an opportunity to see what the DOTM and OTBP will look like on the Main Page. Please remember that main page real-estate is a valuable commodity, so keep the description brief and the photo small.
The capital of Laos, an increasingly popular tourist destination (no longer OtBP) and a very comprehensive article that almost suffers from too much information. Best in the winter season (Nov-Mar or thereabouts). Jpatokal 08:40, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
Support but it needs in some sections (Get around, Drink) a traveller who was their as some dates (e.g. 2007 for deadline of bars) are totally outdated... jan 05:17, 1 May 2009 (EDT)
Support. Could use a manual of style wash, but it has great imagery and makes a strong case for visiting. Gorilla Jones
Support Although I agree that the page would be better if it were formatted properly and if the sites were organized according to locale, I think it's a nice page. ChubbyWimbus 20:41, 29 June 2009 (EDT)
Support Reluctantly. This is when I get mixed feelings about Wikitravel. Vientianne is one of my favourite places and the page well captures my feelings about it. But do I really want it full of Wikitravel readers next time I go there?Shep 14:30, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
Why not? We're a charming bunch. Most of us, anyway. Gorilla Jones 17:21, 28 August 2009 (EDT)
Well, you can have too much of a good thing!Shep 09:07, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
I don't think Wikitravellers are going to come in such droves that it will take away from the charm of the city. I guess you could try to think of it in other terms: Visitors help the local/nation's economy (don't know much about Laotian economics, but money is usually a good thing), you can showcase a city that you hold dear to you so that others can share that same type of experience, it can help fight against stereotypes that Laos is a war-torn Hmong refugee nation, etc. ChubbyWimbus 13:02, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
I note this has migrated to May — I've never been to Vientiane, but May is hot and miserable for much of the region, and according to this chart, it's also the rainy season. Gorilla Jones 18:56, 9 January 2010 (EST)
Wasn't this scheduled for this month? When and why did it get moved? You should not go anywhere in Laos in that period - stinking hot and wet. Best in October to March period.--Burmesedays 03:22, 10 January 2010 (EST)
Stefan replaced Vientiane with Nara due to 1300th festival of Nara. I agree it is not the right time. Shall we switch Gilis instead? jan 08:22, 15 January 2010 (EST)
We aren't exactly running short on Japan DOTMs, but here's one more for sometime in 2010. Best in spring or fall. Jpatokal 10:08, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
Support. Good descriptions in this one. Gorilla Jones 11:21, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
It's a very pretty article, but there are few addresses listed—is this a Japan-specific thing? --PeterTalk 15:22, 18 July 2009 (EDT)
It wouldn't hurt to add them, but in general directions are much more useful for finding places in Japan. Jpatokal 01:27, 20 July 2009 (EDT)
Most other Japan pages have addresses. The listings on the Kanazawa page only mimic Wikitravel's formatting, but they do not actual use it. I suspect that's why the addresses are left out. There is a lot of time, though, to format the page properly before this is featured. ChubbyWimbus 17:27, 21 July 2009 (EDT)
Support Wish I had read this when I was there, all I remember seeing was the "clock fountain" and the park. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 16:50, 4 December 2009 (EST)
One of my favorite places in the world, and the article's in decent shape as well. Not ruined yet, but should be listed before it turns into the next Kuta. Best season is May-Oct, but quite usable any time of the year. Jpatokal 08:37, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
Support. Great article, and quite OtBP. Time to fill the queue with Indonesian articles, methinks. --PeterTalk 16:32, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
Support. A lovely place. Certainly not ruined yet as Jani says but it might be going that way. This nomination has prompted me to do a bit of work on the article also. I know Gili T especially well and a few little updates would help an already good article. --Burmesedays 21:07, 30 September 2009 (EDT)
Unsure It's a good article but are the Gili Islands still OtbP? It's definitely on the standard backpacker trail and even my travel agency in Zurich offered me Gili T as part of a package tour from Lombok to Bali. I will not disagree if we continue under OtbP but maybe users are surprised. jan 11:42, 5 October 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, I was thinking about that too, but it's still pretty OtBP outside the backpacker set -- no branded hotels etc. Even the package tour you mention probably only stops over in Gili T, right? Jpatokal 04:23, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
The organised tour started in Senggigi, Lombok stopped two nights at Gili T, then onwards to Nusa Lemboggan for some snorkeling and finished in Sanur, Bali. I had a quick look and the two biggest german speaking travel companies now offer for all package tourists this option. They do this primarily because European travel companies are still not allowed to book indonesian airlines due to the EU ban. Regards, jan 05:08, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
Strictly speaking I guess Gili T (especially) is no longer OtBT. And even within Indonesia you could make an argument for many places better deserving of this tag. The very nature of the place, the absence of any name hotels and the good state of the WT article makes it a valid candidate though I think.--Burmesedays 05:15, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
I added the Gili Islands in the schedule for February because it's a good time to start the preparation for a trip but Bali is in March... How about feature Bali and the Gilis jointly in March? That would make an interesting combination for travellers. jan 05:34, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
I think it is preferred to keep the DotM/OtBP diverse. Although there may be instances when the same country occupied both features, I'd rather avoid that. It makes the features less exciting when one nation dominates, and it doesn't showcase the full scope of Wikitravel. How about instead of featuring this with Bali we switch it with Tobacco Caye? Although Vientiane and Gili Islands are both in Southeast Asia, at least they are not both in the same country. ChubbyWimbus 11:41, 6 October 2009 (EDT)
Chubby, I forgot the different changing dates for DotM and OtbP so you are right, they will be featured for two weeks. I will do the change with Tobacco Caye. Feel free to change it further if there are any other ideas. jan 05:17, 7 October 2009 (EDT)
Withdrawn support. The more I think about this, the more I do not think it is such a good idea. The article is great and I love the place. But I think we are stretching the definition of OtBP here. The destination is relatively well known these days and as Jan pointed out it even crops up as part of fairly bland European (especially) package tours. There is also the country factor....... We are proposing to feature Indonesia twice in the near future which in itself is great. But there are some good, well-developed articles for truly OtBP destinations in Indonesia and I can see those getting short shrift because we have featured the Gili Islands which does not altogether fit the OtBP definition.--Burmesedays 23:28, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
Well, what category it should feature in shouldn't be the basis of your support, neither should whether you like or don't like the destinition, or when it should be featured. It should be judged on it's merits as an article. Details like that merely calls for discussion of those issues. Destinations can be parked her for a year if need be for the right timing. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 23:36, 15 October 2009 (EDT)
Really? If the point of these nominations is to highlight a destination and then judge it on the merit of the WT article with no regard for whether it fits a set of criteria, then I have completely misunderstood. --Burmesedays 00:01, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
Ah. Yes. Indeed. That'll teach me eh? :o) Not for the first time, thank you Stefan for pointing me in the right direction. So.... no problems at all with the article it is very good. It should though be a DoTM candidate not OtBP. There. :) --Burmesedays 00:43, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
Schedule proposal I think we should feature the Gilis in late spring 2010 (May/June) as DotM as compared to the competition of Niamey, Tobacco Caye, Hilversum etc. it is not really anymore OtBP. I also read Select and think that with the partial lift of the EU ban on indonesian airlines the no. of package tourists will significantly increase and in 2010 no one will argue anymore that it is OtBP. I think we should keep Hyderabad as proposed in January 2010 as it is the best time for a visit but Christchurch could be an alternative to the Asian overweights in the list. Would anyone oppose a shift of the Gilis to the Dotm section? jan 07:44, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
May or June is good scheduling for the Gilis: good weather but before the islands become over-run in July and August. The months to avoid are December to February when rains can be fairly extreme and the islands flood (wading through one metre of floodwater on Gili T is not much fun!). For reasons already stated, DoTM makes more sense to me for this destination.--Burmesedays 22:39, 16 October 2009 (EDT)
I entered the Gilis for May as DotM jan 09:56, 19 November 2009 (EST)
Excellent jan. I pledge to have a Gili Islands map ready soon. --Burmesedays 09:59, 19 November 2009 (EST)
I have been looking at this article very closely, and the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Gili Islands should actually be a region, and each island have its own article. I have made the proposal at Talk:Gili Islands, and think we should decide on this before it appears as a DotM.--Burmesedays 03:20, 21 February 2010 (EST)
Article is now in great shape - or articles rather as there are now 4 of them. It ought to appear as DotM before October when the rain starts. --Burmesedays 07:19, 16 March 2010 (EDT)
I switched the Gilis to September in the schedule. The main reasons are: 1. We then have enough time to bring it to star status 2. We have a little more distance to the Bali Dotm now and 3. it would be too late for Figueres in 2010. Any opposition? jan 07:56, 16 March 2010 (EDT)
Another African find. This one in a much better shape than Niamey. It's extremely well written I think, it feels complete. There are some missing addresses here and there, but must of them has GPS coordinates instead, and this is Africa so I suspect there is a reason for those. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 11:17, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
Support, definitely. I find myself rather shocked that we have a great Sudanese article! And one that seems to have grown organically, without love from any one contributor. --PeterTalk 14:20, 10 October 2009 (EDT)
Nice, but needs work A surprisingly good article for the region, but I think it needs more information before it is fit for DotM...this is a city of EIGHT million! As for coordinates, they are very useful to some people, not at all to others. I've been doing a bit of browsing the past few months on the  and coordinates are used (& more useful than addresses) by practically everyone driving themselves...but for other tourists (and there are lots doing Cairo-Nairobi independently or with an overland bus) addresses are more helpful (even just the street name, esp. for telling the taxi driver and watching for signs on a minibus).
Photos: There is one good picture and one that isn't really necessary.
Intro: Needs some history and certainly needs some climate info
Get in: (By bus) Where's the new bus terminal/name? (By train) So the station is chaotic and trains erratic, but how do I get a ticket?
See: Could use some more items and lengthier descriptions.
Do: Two things?
Buy: Lists places, but are there any particular items which are good to buy?
Eat: I realize this is Africa and so there are thousands of small, good places to eat which frequently open/close and relocate...so we don't really need more listings. But this section would be best served by dividing it into the three sections of the city.
Drink: Why does 'drink'='alcohol'. Is tea served anywhere?
Cope: A few more embassy listings.
Get out: Descriptions should be more brief and those destinations should have their own article. I think the Red Sea area and Jebel Barkal listings are too far away (and in whole other regions of Sudan) to be listed.
Stay Safe: A VERY important section is missing! While the city is considered one of the safest for expats in E.Africa (despite violence elsewhere in the country), there are quite a few cultural sensitivities. If you follow the news, you'd know that in Khartoum: a schoolteacher was imprisoned for naming a teddybear Muhammed, a Sudanese journalist was jailed and sentenced to a fine & 40 lashes for wearing trousers (deemed inappropriate attire for a woman), and a US embassy employee and his driver were shot to death last year by conservative Islamists (although terrorism isn't really a huge threat). Political topics should be avoided. Some are sensitive to the North-South conflict (I think the South will vote on independence in a year or two), the Darfur conflict (I doubt many will side with Westerners who blame the Sudanese gov't), and the warrant for Bashir's arrest issued earlier this year (which Western governments lauded).
So, while the article is much better than most African ones, I think a lot of info should be added to bring it to true guide status and to be featured. The second edition Bradt guide (the best guides to African countries) for Sudan should be released this December, . The first edition is a bit outdated, and this one claims a big update to Khartoum info. I got the Bradt guides to Mali, Niger, & Nigeria this summer and they are truly incredible in their scope of these 'off-the-beaten-path' destinations...if someone picks up this guide, I guarantee we could have a star article for Khartoum. Another good source of info is over at LP Thorntree . I'd do most of the updating myself, but I'm very busy (and it's quite late at night while I'm writing this)...hopefully I'll find time to contribute to this fine destination soon. AHeneen 02:57, 13 October 2009 (EDT)
The Stay safe argument is quite compelling, so should we slush this? --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 17:31, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
NO. As far as safety goes, visitors must simply be careful to avoid insulting Islam (I think it's about the same as in Saudi Arabia or Iran) and avoiding politics concerning the North-South conflict and the president's role in the Darfur conflict (just like you shouldn't discuss politics in many countries). Khartoum seems to me like an interesting city in the region, and with just a little work (like I outlined) it could be a great DotM. AHeneen 23:13, 14 October 2009 (EDT)
I can't find much info to fix this article. I really hope it stays here and isn't slushed for a while as I would really like to see it featured. As far as timing goes, very important and (we hope not) potentially explosive elections are set to run from 5-12 April with results announced later in the month. While the city is not too dangerous to be rejected for DotM, these are the first elections since 1986 and the first after decades of civil war. As the capital and largest city of the country combined with very sensitive elections, I think it should not be featured earlier than June...to give time to see if violence (like in Iran) breaks out. Again, it is otherwise a fairly safe city. AHeneen 17:56, 13 December 2009 (EST)
Actually, I think featuring it during the elections period might be best, since people will be googling "Khartoum!" We are featuring Copenhagen during the COP15 summit, which clearly is not a great time to visit, but to great effect. The true goal of the DotM is really just to attract new users (aside from encouraging users to improve their pet projects with the reward of a front page feature, of course). Stefan noted that on 14 Dec, "Copenhagen" was the #3 "hot search" on Google trends, and our guide was the #3 search result! I think featuring articles when they are in the news can be a good way to give our site extra exposure. --PeterTalk 23:57, 17 December 2009 (EST)
Aw, I like to think there's a wider variety of goals in featuring destinations! ;-) ChubbyWimbus 00:22, 18 December 2009 (EST)
Impressively comprehensive guide, with some nice pictures to boot. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 02:52, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
A few things: The "Do" and "Drink" sections need more descriptions. Are all of the food specialties specific to Kuching or could some be moved into the regional article? Also, many of the listings are not properly formatted. (To those who keep saying formatting is not required, I'd like to point out that it is listed as a requirement through the statement, "listings/headers/etc. that match our manual of style." Formatting is part of the manual of style, and "listings" are even mentioned directly. Please continue the discussion on the talk page if you have any thoughts on this.) ChubbyWimbus 16:32, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
Virtually all of those food items should be moved over to Sarawak, which already lists most of them with the same pictures to boot... Jpatokal 10:20, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Yeah, was thinking that might come up, what if we temporarily delete (move to the talk page) those empty listings while it's featured? there are plenty of others to go on. Aaaand, If you're going to oppose it on the merrit of the lack of "new style" format, I'll just go right ahead and slush this one again, cause I sure as hell ain't doing all that work, but I still think it's a pitty to disqualify good good guides on that basis. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 17:02, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
Unless the "Do" and "Drink" sections are deemed to be lacking too much, I don't think it needs to be slushed for the formatting. If it were next month's feature, it would be more urgent, but since this is unscheduled, there could very well be 6 months before it is featured. That would be enough time for someone (not necessarily you) to put the listings in proper format. ChubbyWimbus 03:49, 31 October 2009 (EDT)
Support. It would be very cool to have a Brunei feature, and this one is, I think, certainly up to guide status and thus qualifies for a feature. I don't think deleting the very few unfinished listings would be worthwhile—that wouldn't IMO be an improvement, and if anything we should hope that they will encourage a new user to fill them out! --PeterTalk 04:25, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Agreed, but I think you meant Borneo 8) Jpatokal 10:20, 1 November 2009 (EST)
Support, slightly grudgingly. It is good when DoTM are actually nice places and I dont't like Kuching much. I know likes and dislikes are supposed to be irrelevant, however... :) More objectively, it is a good article for sure and certainly worthy of a DoTM. --Burmesedays 10:32, 1 November 2009 (EST)
I've given some love to this article by updating, formatting/cleaning up, and adding history. An interesting destination for the most seasoned of travelers, you could make a case for it as OtBP--few tourists (mostly military, businessmen, & redevelopment people), it's close to a war zone (and thus perceived as dangerous and off the beaten track), and it has a history of isolation & war (including much of the past 30 years)--but I have nominated it as DotM because despite its historical isolation it is a name recognized by most Westerners as Afghanistan's capital, number of visitors is high despite low number of tourists, it is rather safe despite its proximity to war zones to the south (towards Kandahar) & east (towards Jalalabad), and it is a large city and a regional center of culture and trade. The first 2 arguments for were brought up in discussions(Nov 08) over the nomination of Riyadh as a DotM.
The article is not perfect, as I struggled to find addresses or locations of some of the "see" listings I wonder whether much of Kabul has much of a street numbering system (even the US embassy does not list a number in describing there location). So one of two things needs to be done: some of you could help find out locations or we could just leave it as is and assume taxi drivers know where these places are and how to get there. A recent map would be nice along with more info to fill the "orientaion" section (or else it can be removed) and another thing I couldn't find was info for "Get in/By bus"...a simple note of where bus stations are is all that's needed. Aside from these couple of small problems, the article is a beauty and I'm going ahead with nominating it so it can get a decent spot in line to fill summer DotM slots. May-August seems like the appropriate window for Kabul. AHeneen 01:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Support A great article, except for a few things which need to be cleaned up as mentioned above. AHeneen 01:39, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Support. I'm rather amazed at the quality of this article! I agree that it should be featured as a DotM for the reasons you outline above. --PeterTalk 07:12, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Support This is a nice article for an interesting city. Some minor things that I'd add to be worked on: The Bagh-e Zanana is a place where only women can enter, right? It says "dedicated to women", which is awkward English, so if it means what I suspect it means, the wording should be changed (even if it doesn't, the wording could be clearer). The Bagh-e Bala should probably have some information about it (history, significance, the usual). Stadiums and cinemas are "Do"s, right? Also, "Money" probably shouldn't be its own heading. I'll make it a sub-heading of "Buy". ChubbyWimbus 15:46, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Yes, the park is women-only according to its Wikipedia article. I guess I overlooked a couple of things, feel free to add info...I'll see when I have time if I can fill in some more info. AHeneen 23:07, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Okay, I've added some info for Bagh-e Bala and moved the stadium and cinema to the "Do" section. I also added content to the Bagh-e Zanana BUT most of the content came from this website: The information is interesting, but I posted it in case someone wanted to challenge the info. I don't have any personal knowledge about the city, so if the article reeks of political agenda and seems false, feel free to get rid of the info and add a better description! ChubbyWimbus 01:20, 15 November 2009 (EST)
Support wow, nice work, i have also considered nominting Mogadishu for a while, since it's one of our most loved articles, if twitter is anything to go for, but I've no idea how to push it the last stretch. This one is already there, very good content. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 17:49, 14 November 2009 (EST)
If it is even possible to get it to guide status, given the difficulty of getting info about the city. How about Hargeisa, also in Somalia but DRASTICALLY safer, easier to visit, and very inviting to tourists. I read quite a bit about tourism in Kurdistan (Iraq) and looked through all its city articles, but only a couple (Dahuk & Arbil) were even at outline status and I knew I could not find enough info to bring them up to OtBP status. I would love to see some more articles from off-the-beaten-path countries. AHeneen 23:07, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Support Very good work. --Burmesedays 00:52, 19 November 2009 (EST)
Support This article is great and offers a DotM that most people would rule out as a travel destination. jan 03:27, 20 November 2009 (EST)
Maybe.... good work on the history section, that was much needed! However most of the listings in this article, especially the eat listings, were added years ago and I suspect are fairly outdated.... but I don´t know for sure. I worked on the few that I visited when I was there 3 years ago, but that wasn´t many. Also, for a destination such as this I think a good map is essential.... enough so that I would probably withold support until it has one. Re the question above about addresses, I don´t remember them being particularly relavent.... I don´t think taxi drivers use them much.... and I recall paying much more attention to intersections and dots on maps than addresses. Also about the bus stations.... I recall Kabul as fantastically complicated to get in and out of.... there are departure points scattered all over the place with minibuses headed to various locales.... tell a taxi driver where you want to go and he´ll take you to where the buses depart.... and probably get it wrong at least once – cacahuatetalk 22:55, 19 December 2009 (EST)
Remarkably, OSM  has good coverage of Kabul! It shouldn't be hard at all to put up a basic import, but someone other than me will need to choose what part of the city needs to be covered in the map. Better to do that at Talk:Kabul. --PeterTalk 00:30, 20 December 2009 (EST)
Still no map, I won't be able to do it, but can give a little feedback and guidance to anyone else who is willing on Talk:Kabul – cacahuatetalk 03:03, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
Object strongly. Does anyone else look at Kabul in the dotm blurb above and want to laugh? That on our front page is pretty much a joke. Still no map, in a city that I would say requires one more than any other destination we've ever featured. Many listings are almost certainly outdated. I also think that if it is improved and thus featured it should be OTBP (forgive me for not noticing and bringing that up earlier). – cacahuatetalk 03:00, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
I was browsing when I saw this one. Although it's only at usable status, it has enough stuff for guide status--the only problem I see is the fact that nothing has an address. Not quite sure if it's a DOTM or OTBP, but I tend towards DOTM b/c it definitely has name recognition. Don't know much about time, other than Summer is a no. Rastapopulous 20:15, 18 November 2009 (EST)
Almost. A few things are needed first. In addition to looking up addresses, I think the article would need descriptions for the buy listings, and there are a few other significant mos issues related to content placement & section headers. Once those things are taken care of, I'd support it for OtBP—I don't think Death Valley is too often visited. Per the article's intro, Many potential visitors ignore the park.... --PeterTalk 20:47, 18 November 2009 (EST)
I've never been there nor do I know the area, but I can probably do some addresses. Should there be coordinates for the sights in-park? Rastapopulous 20:49, 18 November 2009 (EST)
So almost nothing actually has an address in Death Valley (even hotels and the like), but some things have GPS coordinates. Should those be used instead? Rastapopulous 17:32, 19 November 2009 (EST)
Presumably even a hotel is on some road, and that road has a name, yes? Do you have an example of one that is not? LtPowers 17:57, 19 November 2009 (EST)
Yes, they are on named roads, but Highway 190 South isn't a terribly useful address... Rastapopulous 18:01, 19 November 2009 (EST)
Sure it is; it's at least half the information you need. =) No reason to leave it out, is there? LtPowers 09:59, 20 November 2009 (EST)
I could certainly include it. However, I think I should add GPS coordinates too. Rastapopulous 10:50, 20 November 2009 (EST)
I don't see why not; that's what the "lat" and "long" fields are for. LtPowers 13:02, 20 November 2009 (EST)
Support I scheduled it for October because it is the start of the high season and it's enough time to finish the buy listings. jan 08:00, 19 April 2010 (EDT)
Superbly written and even better presented. Not far short of star quality. And a fine, interesting city to boot. In summer, of course. --Burmesedays 11:14, 21 December 2009 (EST)
Support A nice article and looks like a great place to visit. The Drink section seems to be the longest in the article--is there a good reason for that (I guess this is England) or has every pub in the city been listed. A few "see" listings don't have an address/location. The Understand section in general could be lengthened...a lot of listings in the article are mentioned by district/street and so an "orientation" section would be useful; climate and more history (four sentences for 2000 years!?) would also be helpful additions to the article. Those few improvements aside, the article is very nice and I think it is a good choice to feature as DotM. As far as timing goes, would summer be best? There's three festivals that sound interesting in June, July, and August. AHeneen 21:53, 21 December 2009 (EST)
Support. This is pretty much exactly what we want from a featured article, it's a guide article in fine shape, covers an interesting destination, and immediately makes a compelling case for visiting. --PeterTalk 22:07, 22 December 2009 (EST)
Wow! This looks good! Is there a more appropriate place to put the "laundry" information aside from the Buy section? It really doesn't seem to belong there. 22.214.171.124 04:51, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
It's normally a "Cope" topic, and I see that someone has moved it there. Support. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 14:19, 9 April 2009 (EDT)
Support And again, nice to see dotm/otbp ready guides, outside our "core" areas' of North America and Asia. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 08:45, 1 April 2009 (EDT)
Almost support. It is looking pretty good and has a ton of listings, but the see section is very weak, and should be one of the strongest. The article could also use a serious copyedit and a small beating with the MoS stick – cacahuatetalk 17:52, 25 May 2009 (EDT)
Update: needs even more cleanup after today's verbose additions – cacahuatetalk 21:27, 31 May 2009 (EDT)
Yeah, a lot of work has been put into the article post-nomination, which has added good content, but has also mangled the English and some of the structural style. It shouldn't take that much work to get this back up to a DotM level of polish, but that work should be done before we feature it. --PeterTalk 01:02, 23 June 2009 (EDT)
I tried to work on MoS items. I posted a thought about currency usage on the discussion page and changed most entries to local currency but left some in USD since some prices/locations seem to accept USD quite easily.Zepppep 13:34, 21 January 2010 (EST)
Support anew. I've restored this nomination from the slush pile, as I think Zepppep has resolved the outstanding issues, and this looks like it will be a good feature! --PeterTalk 15:44, 21 January 2010 (EST)
Hmm... The "See" section still isn't Wikified. It lists worthwhile places ("La Catedral, el Palacio de los Gobernadores, Convento de Capuchinas, Convento de Santa Clara, el Arco de Santa Catarina, Iglesia La Merced and the Handcrafts Market") but shouldn't they each then be given their own listing? They are kind of glazed over, but if someone were to visit using our guide, I imagine they would want that extra information. ChubbyWimbus 01:34, 22 January 2010 (EST)
Tentative support, as it is an interesting guide to a popular destination. But I would like to see some more work done on it. The first half looks a bit like an essay and would benefit from some sub-sections. A history sub-section is a glaring ommision from understand, when the destination is all about history. Most of the existing understand section could go into an orientation sub-section. Get in needs some categorisation. Perhaps split into "from the airport", "from Guatemala City" etc? I would support ChubbyWimbus' point about formalising attractions in the see section. Get out is very long and not really in line with the stated purpose of that section. All easy to put right I think. --Burmesedays 01:50, 22 January 2010 (EST)
A great guide article on a vibrant city which is really a hidden jewel in South West England. A very good place to visit in the summer when there are many exciting events and activities going on such as the Harbour Festival and Bristol Balloon Fiesta. Paulalatifa 10:20, 26 February 2010 (EST)
Support. Nice article and definitely a very interesting city. Article needs a bit of polishing up and good to see that the nominator is doing some of that already. I would not though agree that it is a "hidden jewel" in any way - Bristol is the 4th most visited city in England.--Burmesedays 11:11, 1 March 2010 (EST)
Thanks for the support. Doing my best on the editing, I am new to Wikitravel but just moved from the Netherlands to Bristol and thought WikiTravel would be a nice project. To me it really was a hidden jewel, especially because next to famous London, Stonehenge, Bath etcetera I really did not know anything about Bristol until I got here. Paulalatifa 05:37, 3 March 2010 (EST)
Almost support. It's actually fairly close, to my pleasant surprise! But there are a few issues holding it back from quite reaching guide status, including the lack of buy listings. If you are interested in fixing the article up a bit, please let me know and I'll provide a bit more guidance on the article's talk page! It would be great to feature such a beautiful, important, and fascinating city, so I hope we can in the near future. --PeterTalk 20:23, 6 April 2010 (EDT)
Not yet. The whole article is nice and comprehensive, but the See section is very messy and clearly incomplete. Several important sights, such as the House with Chimeras, are just missing. And Hreschatik is more than "the main drag of the city centre".
By the way, this brings another question. Kiev is a large and a rich city. Should it be districtified? If yes, this will probably delay the nomination for quite a while... Atsirlin 16:09, 28 April 2010 (EDT)
Ultimately, yes, it most certainly should have districts. I think it's OK, though, to feature before they are implemented, as long as the article is a strong guide—and it's not quite there yet. —The preceding comment was added by Peterfitzgerald (talk • contribs)
One more thing that came to my mind: what about the season? I think, this should be spring, the blossoming period. If so, one can interrupt the discussion for half a year and see what comes out till then. Atsirlin 12:03, 30 April 2010 (EDT)
Nearly. Peter has identified the key omission. Otherwise, a bit of a spring clean and this would make an excellent DotM I think.--Burmesedays 22:01, 28 April 2010 (EDT)
Don't Support Basedi on the districtification comments, if we anticipate Kiev having so much to see/do that it needs districts, then this article must be highly incomplete, because it is nowhere near ready for districtification. If the city really has that much left out, then I would rather not feature it until it has its districts. ChubbyWimbus 09:35, 30 April 2010 (EDT)
Well, don't take my comment too serious. The present version is reasonably close to a "one day in Kiev" guide that obviously does not need any districts. However, this will not be a full guide to Kiev. Atsirlin 12:03, 30 April 2010 (EDT)
Indeed, but I think LtPowers is still working on it. Maybe it would be better to wait for him to nominate it once he thinks it's ripe. --PeterTalk 21:48, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
Missed this somehow. I'm almost done with the district articles, and then I can get to work polishing up the main article. I know that featured articles don't have to be stars, but that's what I'm shooting for and I'd like to wait at least until I'm reasonably certain that the quality is up there before featuring it. LtPowers 22:51, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
Don't Support - I know the arguments about attraction v destination have been done to death in the past wrt Disneyworld, and the article does look very, very good even if a lot of the prose reads a bit "corporate" for my taste. However I don't think we should be featuring a commercial attraction as DotM. Fair enough it would be a tiny drop in a huge ocean as far as Disney's publicity is concerned but in my view it's still too much. Tarr3n 05:01, 12 May 2010 (EDT)
That is not a valid reason to oppose a nomination, per the rules: "All objections have to be based on the guidelines above: poor formatting, missing information, etc. Personal opinions, dislikes, etc do not count." Also: "Any destination, region, itinerary or event that passes the 'What is an article?' test is eligible for DotM/OtBP." In other words, if you feel that some topic should never be featured, then we should never have an article on that topic and you should begin a VfD discussion. LtPowers 08:55, 12 May 2010 (EDT)
Or, if we need to, start a discussion to formalise that there is already a ton of other factors about a destination in every nomination that goes beyond formatting and completeness. IMO Wikitravel having a better guide than is available elsewhere is an excellent reason to nominate, and Wikitravel only being one of many similar guides in mountains of information and publicity is an excellent reason to de-prioritize, and this doesn't come down to a personal opinion about the article. If we just concern ourselves with completeness and formatting, featured articles becomes just a subset of a starnom. Not commenting on this particular nom, of course, on which I have no opinion. --inas
Good article, great city. --126.96.36.199 12:41, 21 May 2010 (EDT)
Not Yet This article needs more pictures. The article suffers greatly from a lack of proper formatting. There is also information in the See and Do sections that should be in the Get around section. ChubbyWimbus 21:53, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
Not Yet The Buy, Drink, Eat, and Sleep sections need more listings and more information about the current listings. Even some of the listings in the See section could use more information. Proper formatting would be nice. ChubbyWimbus 21:48, 10 June 2010 (EDT)
A huge touristic attratction, and a guide article --188.8.131.52 12:41, 21 May 2010 (EDT)
This article has been slushpiled however, User:Wrh2 has added content to the previously incomplete trail description. I do not know if all the trails are covered or if enough has been said about them to judge whether or not this concern is still relevent, but I think it's always good to review the slushpile. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ChubbyWimbus (talk • contribs)
I've finally gotten around to listifying and reorganizing everything in this article, and just tonight finished the overview map and added four new images to the article. I think it's more-or-less ready for consideration for Destination of the Month.
I should point out that while I wrote much of the prose currently in the article, a fair bit of it also came from User:Nicksand, many many moons ago. Considering the age of the text, I think he might be surprised to see how much of it survives in the current draft. Kudos to him and User:Savogt1, also, for writing about the bars and clubs, because I've never been to any of them myself.
I'm most interested in your thoughts on the tone of the article, and secondarily the style. I still am not sure I have an intuitive grasp of the house tone and so would greatly appreciate any thoughts and impressions on that topic. The article's content is extensive but could hardly be said to be complete; I'll be working on adding some of the glaring omissions in dribs and drabs but I don't think that should keep it from being featured.
Support. Very nice indeed and not too far away from a starnom I would suggest. A couple of small points, neither of which effect the DotM nomination: the lead image would benefit from a caption and it would be nice to have some libraries in Cope, especially as these seem to be the best bet for public internet access. --Burmesedays 23:58, 29 May 2010 (EDT)
I will look up some libraries to add. There are bunches all over the city and suburbs. As for the lead image, any caption would seem to be redundant with the image itself; I'm also a fan of the frameless look for the lead image, but I can change it if needed. LtPowers 07:39, 30 May 2010 (EDT)
Support Clear-cut nomination, and since we've been short on North American destinations lately ,this is great, and, nice maps! Minor Nitpick: Montage Grill doesn't have any info at all. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 08:24, 30 May 2010 (EDT)
Support Good article, maybe Cacahuate is right for imediate promotion to Dotm. jan 03:36, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
I was hoping to have a couple of weeks at least to make some final improvements. =) Two days is a little sudden. LtPowers 08:22, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
I also prefer this over Kuching. It's a much better article, unless someone would rather move the reserve up? ChubbyWimbus 18:37, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
Why not move up one of the other items on the tentative schedule? Since each article only gets one shot at DotM, I'd like to have this one looking its best? LtPowers 18:42, 1 June 2010 (EDT)
I don't know that July is the best time to feature Rochester, but if we don't, we'll be waiting until next spring. (The most important festivals are in May and June). LtPowers 15:48, 16 June 2010 (EDT)
I noticed it in the Star nomination slush pile and thought it had potential to make it as an Off the Beaten Track candidate. ChubbyWimbus 03:05, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
Support. This seems up to OtBP standards to me. And the objections last time around were fairly minor—I'm actually surprised that it was slushed, rather than moved to OtBP. Usually I'd nuke the tour operators, but Guatemala can be a hairy place, I suppose. (And I don't know enough about it to judge which ones to remove. --PeterTalk 03:41, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
Moderate support. Having visited it a few months ago, I realized how far off my old dreams of star status for Flores were. Unfortunately a lost passport thwarted my plans of making it an awesome star article while I was in town. Many of the listings are not on the map, and I think several of them may not even exist anymore, but I made a new map today and placed as much as I could. It is a decent article, but it can get a lot better.... and is still way behind LP's coverage ;) It would also be ideal for the Tikal article to be up to guide status, since that's the reason 90% of Flores' visitors are here (and if it were up to status, I would propose it instead). But I think it may suffice if nothing better comes along – cacahuatetalk 15:14, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
Don't supportNeutral - I ran into this a while ago, while looking for candidates outside our usual areas' (Asia & North America), and considered nominating it - but decided against it since I found a lot of the information really lagging. A good example is the do listings "rent a canoe/hire a covered boat" fine, but some listings - or in case it's to disorganised for listings, some information on where to do this/how much should I pay, would be nice. and Wes' comments above just add's to that. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 15:52, 17 May 2009 (EDT)
Wow, this old mining town in North-western Sweden must be one of the best destination guides in Scandinavia! Very nearly a star even. I think many people explore our previously off the beaten path guides, so featuring it more prominently might push it the last stretch. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 07:21, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Support. Amazing article! Jpatokal 08:06, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Support. Very good article indeed. --Burmesedays 10:05, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Chuckle. I'm in China and the Great Firewall won't let me read that article. Pashley 10:11, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
Surprisingly, there are not many American nominees, and if I'm not mistaken, this would be the first feature from Pennsylvania. Because the OtBP's operate from the 15 of each month, this would be best featured in September so that it would cover Applefest in early October. ChubbyWimbus 00:11, 30 October 2009 (EDT)
Support I thought support by the nominator was implied, but I guess most people also give support below, so I'll do the same. ChubbyWimbus 15:49, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Support - would like some section introductions, but it's up to scratch, and a nice example of what small-town, USA articles could be. --Stefan (sertmann)talk 17:55, 14 November 2009 (EST)
Meh I'm not sure there's enough things to see/do to justify featuring it as an OtBP. The way I imagine OtBP is featuring little-known places that WT browsers would want to travel from far away to visit. While Franklin seems like a nice place to stop by if I were traveling through, there's nothing spectacular about the town that I feel warrants it any special recognition. It has a church (as if there aren't hundreds of historic churches in the Northeast/Midwest), a couple small museums (none noteworthy), and a racetrack (again, not a noteworthy one). Everything else in see & do sections can be found in most small towns...park, ice rink, theater, bowling alleys. Plus, almost every small town in the Northeast/Midwest hosts some kind of fall festival. So, in my opinion, it's just another non-noteworthy small town. Use this for OtBP as a last resort only. AHeneen 00:19, 6 December 2009 (EST)
I am sort of with AHeneen on this one. Well written and presented but it is just not very interesting. Why would the article make anybody go there? The first thing you read is that there are cheap flights from Cleveland. An understand section would help I guess. I am all for American articles being nominated but I would have thought there are more captivating articles than this one? --Burmesedays 00:35, 6 December 2009 (EST)
I have wondered the same about some destinations, but we have featured Spring Green (there is less to do there than in Franklin, and I don't imagine international tourists wanting to plan a trip there. It looks like a place of interest to domestic tourists that have never heard of it before). The cities of Sligo and Saint Martins Island also seem to have nothing really to do or see, but they were featured. Is this article somehow worse than those? I guess I was under the impression that all cities that can sustain an article would be able to become DotM or OtBP once the article was up to standard. I think some OtBPs are the "hidden gems"-type of destinations and other cities may be more "if you're in the area, you may want to check out this city"-type of destinations. Do you think the second type should not be featured? ChubbyWimbus 16:24, 6 December 2009 (EST)
I can't agree with those comparisons, since they all have pretty clear angles. Spring Green is utterly bizarre, and a real top destination for American architecture fans—worth making the 3 hour trek from Chicago; Sligo is one of our nine Irish cities, and the principal population center in the northwest of Ireland, through which anyone in the area will likely pass; and St Martins Island is a tropical paradise, and one of our only 5 ODs for Bangladesh. These aren't simply useful articles, they're things that pique interest in trips (and in using our guides on those trips). The one tiny PA town that would fit that angle that I can think of would be the ever ridiculous Punxsutawney (if it were a good article).
The Franklin guide looks like a great one for anyone passing through the area, but is there a reason why people would seek it out? Per our criteria, personal affection for the destination isn't a valid reason to oppose a nomination, but I'd still like to remind of the consideration that the DotM/OtBP's sole purpose here is to get people interested in the site. It would at least be nice if the article had an understand section highlighting what makes the town really unique/important and worth seeking out. IMO, though, this is the kind of article I'd rather see pushed to star status (since it would be a nice example of how to properly do a small US town) than featured as a dotm.
But even from as close as Pennsylvania, I can't imagine anyone planning a trip just to visit Spring Green. It just wouldn't seem worth it unless you were also going somewhere else. I agree that Spring Green looks interesting, but a three hour trip from Chicago is still a nice day trip. People make similar trips to Franklin from Buffalo. I would be surprised if people from Europe, Asia, etc. planned special trips just to go to either Spring Green or Franklin. That's why I think it's like Franklin, not because it's "boring". I thought it was a "cute" feature.
At any rate, to answer your question about "Why should someone visit Franklin?", people typically visit Franklin to view all of the Victorian architecture, get away from the city/see some nature, and to see the church (although AHaneen considers it to be like any other "historic" church, I think it's more liked than many American historic churches, because the windows are the focus rather than the history. Of course, those who don't like Tiffany will likely not be impressed). I don't know if that makes it sound any better... Franklin is part of the Oil Region (where oil was first discovered/drilled in North America and the Standard Oil Company was founded), so a visit to Franklin usually entails a visit to Titusville and maybe Oil City or Pithole. Probably if this were being featured with Titusville or as Venango County, its value and interest to travelers would be more evident.
I will work on adding some sort of "Understand" information, as there is actually no mention of the Victorian houses, and only small allusions are made to the oil history, which are both important. Feel free to add more critiques, though. I don't think it's that far off from a star, although there is no map. ChubbyWimbus 02:50, 14 December 2009 (EST)
Okay, I added an understand section that *may* make the page more appealing. I also added the "Walking Tours", since the architecture is so popular, and taking the tour would likely make visiting much more interesting. Does it need something more? ChubbyWimbus 21:38, 23 December 2009 (EST)
I quite like the article now, I don't see the reason why not to support it. I think this is the charm of Wikitravel: it features destinations that no other travel guide would ever think of. globe-trotter 20:19, 7 January 2010 (EST)
Now Support. Well done ChubbyWimbus with the changes. I suggest one this is ear-marked for September 2010. --Burmesedays 21:29, 7 January 2010 (EST)
It was recommended that I nominate the Kununurra article for an OtBP, so here goes. I've just finished bringing it up to guide status. The peak season is during the dry season from April to October so round about now would be close to the ideal time of the year. - 05:18, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
Support, with the proviso that the Understand section needs a bit of restructuring. The opening para (which I have just re-written a little) is almost repeated in the history sub-section. That little quibble aside, it is a lovely article about an amazing area. I have passed through Kununurra twice while outback-bashing and it is indeed a charming little place, surrounded by rugged natural beauty. This would make a great OtbP feature. As an aside it also highlights the very good work being done by Cardboardbird on our Western Australia articles. --Burmesedays 05:43, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
Support. Whoa! Great OtBP article! Not too far off from a star nomination, actually, I'd say. --PeterTalk 23:43, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
I've placed it into August and moved Ravello to October in order to break up the European cluster in the summer. If anyone objects, we can discuss it. ChubbyWimbus 00:18, 16 April 2010 (EDT)
There's discussion on the talk page on scheduling issues, which are of immediate importance because we're over a day late on switching the OtBP because Kawasaki isn't ready. LtPowers 07:32, 16 April 2010 (EDT)
Support Good article but i would benefit if it had a map. I was surprised to read about the border and it would be helpful for orientation. Also two Get out entries are red (=empty) article. Maybe someone with a bit of a knowledge fills them with basic infos.jan 07:52, 19 April 2010 (EDT)
Although Australia is a very turistical country, Adelaide is not one of the country's biggest attractions. The article is very complete --184.108.40.206 13:44, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
Adelaide is by no stretch of the imagination Off the beaten Path. Any nomination should be as Destination of the Month. Maybe you meant to put it there?--Burmesedays 22:30, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
Not Yet I think proper formatting would be good for this article, but even beyond that, the "See" section needs reworked. If the linked (and redlinked) areas are cities outside of Adelaide, then they should be in the "Get out" section. If they are in Adelaide city, they should be put in proper format and more information needs to be provided. Many of the entries are just names of museums. If you know the city, it probably wouldn't take much to get it up to standard, but I think there is still work to be done. ChubbyWimbus 22:52, 26 April 2010 (EDT)
Not yet and is also not OtbP. Adelaide is a charming city and one I have enjoyed visiting a couple of times. I am not sure his article captures that charm very well. The Understand, See and Do sections need a fair bit of work I think.
A wonderful city in the "less-well-known" part of Florida. I was surprised to see this wonderful guide article has not been nominated before. Best time to visit/feature the city is October-November or March-April when temperatures are pleasant. It's a shame we didn't feature this before the oil spill, but October is far enough in the future for it to be cleaned up and the beach is only one of the several attractions in the city. AHeneen 04:30, 15 June 2010 (EDT)
Support If the current rate of "clean-up" is any indication of the future, this October will be too soon, but the article itself is well done! We can keep track of the cleanup progress, I spose. Florida does not seem to be as badly affected as some areas. It would be a nice feature to reintroduce the region to tourists who have been deterred. ChubbyWimbus 05:12, 15 June 2010 (EDT)