External Link Policy - Blue Mountains link deleted
I'm new to editing pages here so apologies up front for any mistakes!
I've used wikitravel for a while and it has been a great resource for my travels so I decided to contribute about my local area (Blue Mountains Australia). I put in a link to a great website that I've been showing friends which has aerial video of the mountains and I used it to track down some great places to see views that as a local I didn't even know about. Within minutes my link was deleted. I don't quite understand. the link has has no ads or anything commercial and seeing the Mountains from the air is great! What goes here? Why are you deleting such a good resource? I don't really feel much like contributing anymore but it has been so good so far I just want to find out what I have done wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs)
If you look at the edit comment I left when the link was removed, there is a pointer to our external links policy which explains when and where it is appropriate to add links to articles. -- Ryan • (talk) • 10:42, 5 March 2010 (EST)
External Link Policy - Oahu page
Yes I can see the need to keep spam links out. But removing a single link on a page that contains dozens of external links seems silly. Why not remove them all while you're at it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrs esterhauzen (talk • contribs)
Also - Here's another problem. People lift information from other travel web sites, and then summarize that data into Wikipedia. For example - the external link you removed on the Oahu page was the source of information for the sentence explaining how many tourist beaches Oahu has. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mrs esterhauzen (talk • contribs)
Yup, I realise all that. I do prefer to follow the policy and leave a meessage first though, even to an anonymous IP. If there is another infringement after the message has been left, then to the blacklist it goes (at least, that is my interpretation?). On rollback, I am not sure I fully understand the benefits of the feature but did use it once to remove all contributions from an anonmyous IP. Cheers, and please do not hesitate to continue educating me.... it is certainly helpful :). --Burmesedays 21:47, 4 January 2010 (EST)
Are we are in live mode :), ..... I have been giving a fair bit of thought to the issue of (non) communication between IB and the WT community. Aside from the open tech requests article at shared, is there a page you know of (preferably in the en namespace as shared is a dark mystery to the vast majoriy of users) designed for questions to and discussion with IB? I know that the history has been extremely unsatisfactory in this respect, going right back to those tortured discussions over the awful mis-handling when Evan and Maj sold the site to IB. Perhaps naively, I find it hard to believe that IB are completely anti talking to us about relatively simple improvements that could be made to Wikitravel. Hence my question about whether there is an existing place for this. I noticed that you were active in the 2006 discussions an wondered if you had any insights or pointers? --Burmesedays 22:09, 4 January 2010 (EST)
The IB history is somewhat sordid, and while they could do a few very, very simple things that would vastly improve their relationship with the community they have (in their defense) done a good job of keeping the site running smoothly. In terms of communication, my experience is that IB tends to appear and disappear in spurts, and whether they show up in the Pub, on shared:, or wherever is unpredictable. The pages on shared are the best place to communicate - prior to creating shared we had vast problems coordinating between language versions, so any attempts to create an en: page that would be of interest to other language versions is generally strongly opposed. That said, I don't think anyone has had much luck using Wikitravel to communicate with IB, and instead I've used email during the 2-3 times where I felt it was important to talk to them and gotten a generally quick response. shared:User:KevinSours and some of the other IB folks have active "email" links on their user pages, and email addresses can also be found in some of the archives. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:16, 4 January 2010 (EST)
Regarding your query on my talk page on December 2nd (sorry, hadn't been logged onto the wiki since then), I make decisions of what to contribute and what not to contribute based in part on the license. For example, if a project were to use the GFDL for all contributions, I might contribute certain images with the knowledge that (because of the license) they cannot be reproduced in print unless the GFDL is reproduced as well. So, if that project's license were to change to CC-BY-SA 3.0, that would no longer be the case and images that I contributed could now be used in ways I didn't intend. Obviously the difference between CC-BY-SA 1.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0 isn't anywhere near as great, but it's the principle of the whole thing. Cheers, JYolkowski 19:08, 13 January 2010 (EST)
CC-by-SA 3 notices
The notice is in the template. I will remove it and all the notices in the articles as I get round to them. Feel free to remove them yourself if you feel the urge, but if not I will get rid of them in time. Cheers, Peter (Southwood)Talk
Thanks! I saw that and just sort of wondered if you still had concerns, so it's good to know it's just a template issue. Great work on the dive articles, by the way. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:54, 30 January 2010 (EST)
Thanks for your kind note and your edits. I'll adjust as I continue with this article. Ezratrumpet 14:14, 15 February 2010 (EST)
See and do in combimation
Hi Ryan. I am asking you this question as you seem to have a amazing memory for where things are hidden in the arcane maze that is the Wikitravel file structure :). When See and Do sections are combined, how should the header be written? See and Do or See and do? Even perhaps See & Do or See & do? Instinctively, I feel See and do is correct. I know I have seen a discussion about this, but I can't re-find it! Cheers, --Burmesedays 07:36, 26 February 2010 (EST)
Looking at Google search results (here and here), it looks like we have both "See & Do" and "See and Do", but the former is much more common. I honestly can't remember ever seeing a discussion about this specific issue, but given how many times I've bashed my head over the years you should take that with a grain of salt :) -- Ryan • (talk) • 09:56, 26 February 2010 (EST)
Thanks Peter. That's clearly where I read it. :) --Burmesedays 01:00, 27 February 2010 (EST)
I don't follow the star nominations as closely as I probably should, so for once I can't blame head trauma for the lack of knowledge. Per Google we currently have more of the "See & Do", so if anyone cares much about this then it's worth a cleanup, although I suspect time might be better spent on bigger issues. As an aside, the use of rock, paper, scissors is a first in Wikitravel history, but would make a lot of other discussions SO much easier to resolve :) -- Ryan • (talk) • 01:04, 27 February 2010 (EST)
Are we having a move war? ;) --PeterTalk 10:40, 27 March 2010 (EDT)
Ha! I didn't realize that from the move log, the destination link from the move isn't marked &redirect=no. That made things even more confusing. Fixed now, though. --PeterTalk 10:55, 27 March 2010 (EDT)
Shall we start a bigger WT wide list? jan 11:09, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Ryan, I noticed that you tend to block an article like Paris instead the offending IP 18.104.22.168. May I ask why? I think it is unfair for other users that they can't work/edit an article because someone is non-compliant. I usually prefer to block the IP as this offers others the opportunity to still work and only punish the offender. jan 12:10, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
The Wikitravel:Edit war policy is about the only guideline we have on this matter, and it suggests protecting an article briefly in cases of edit wars. If a hotel tout is editing multiple articles I'll generally block them as an attention-getting matter since there isn't a single article to block, but when a user is re-adding info to the same article then I think the edit war guidelines apply. -- Ryan • (talk) • 12:18, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
Hi Ryan. I will soon be starting on a Wikitravel map for Iceland. I thought you might be able to help with this request. Cheers. --Burmesedays 13:02, 15 April 2010 (EDT)
We appear to need another bureaucrat on :en, and I've nominated you for the position. Here's to hoping you will be willing to accept the weighty responsibilities of being reachable for bit flipping ;) --PeterTalk 21:11, 19 April 2010 (EDT)
SIR -- with regard to your application to become a Bureaucrat, pursuivant to the Bureaucracy Enablement Act of 2003 (Subclause D), the Assistant Vice Undersecretary of Switch-Toggling at the Department of Redundancy Department is pleased to inform you that filing of the prerequisite forms in triplicate and notifying relevant authorities has been completed. Enjoy your shiny new red rubber stamp! Jpatokal 19:02, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
When I was very small and less toilet-trained my mom told me that someday I would do great things. Clearly she was wrong, but the red rubber stamp is much appreciated. -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:16, 18 May 2010 (EDT)
Being that I not only live in the Galapagos Islands but have written the majority of Wikipedia's Galapagos section. I am aware of the operators in Galapagos. You keep removing Galapagos Online who has originated a number of tours and operate their own tours in the Galapagos while you have left over 1/2 of the operators that do not do any of their own operations but rather only are resellers. As well as a company that is illegally operating. I have followed the guideline while your edits do not. MOVERA
I'm a bit tired of the edit warring and at this point I'm more focused on your poor on-wiki behavior than on the merits of the particular company, so I suggest getting someone else involved. Based solely on the fact that you have re-added the listing without discussion seven times now, despite legitimate concerns about the Tour policy, I'm less willing than I should be to try to see your side of this argument. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:01, 28 April 2010 (EDT)
The only issue is that you are not following the policy you are quoting. You have numerous "travel agencies" listed that have no operation in Galapagos and are deleting agencies that do. I don't understand deleting Galapagos Explorer and leaving Galapagos Legend. The site linked on the legend is a 3rd party that has absolutely no operations in Galapagos while the listing for the Explorer was the boat itself. Both boats are exactly the same size 100 passengers. You said you deleted the explorer due to its size no one would charter it. Then you should delete the legend for the same reason. However since the owners of the legend are Klein Tours then the link to that boat should be to the owners rather than a travel agency. MOVERA
Hi Ryan! A pretty agressive business owner tried to place their business today in Beijing and ignored all warnings and tried to trick around. I blacklisted Zanys business but he keeps entering it without the link. Is there a ways to block the entry of his name? He is using multiple ip's to avoid short term blocks that i made to get his attention. Looks like a pretty knowledgable marketer. jan 10:41, 29 April 2010 (EDT)
You can try something like "[Zz]anys[ ]+[Cc]ar[ ]+[Rr]ental", although before doing so make sure that any articles containing "Zanys Car Rental" are updated - Driving in China and probably a few others contain that term. -- Ryan • (talk) • 11:06, 29 April 2010 (EDT)
Ryan, thank you for the fast response because the block is ending soon. I searched for Zanys and beside my warnings you found the last article i missed.jan 11:17, 29 April 2010 (EDT)
Nice work deleting those ~150 factbook pages! While it's refreshing sometimes to get some use out of the buttons, that was not a task I envied ;) --PeterTalk 22:18, 12 May 2010 (EDT)
Thanks :) I was partially inspired by your Travelers' Pub-ectomy of a few days ago. -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:27, 12 May 2010 (EDT)
Rents in Kiev
Ryan: Why did you remove section regarding www.roomme.net. This web site lists apartments for short term rental in Kiev and other ukrainian cities.
It could be helpful for travelers to find apartments descriptions and phone numbers of its owners in one place.
Ryan, I think Hong Kong is a candidate for partial protection. Some of the recent edit warring has been destructive and most of it initiated by anons. This is an important and largely well written article. I am not really sure whether this should be discussed first, so I have put a note at Talk:Hong Kong. Errr..... I am also fairly sure that I will mess it up if I do it myself :). --Burmesedays 11:46, 3 June 2010 (EDT)
I'll add my support to the Talk:Hong Kong discussion, but as an admin you can always protect an article for up to one day at your discretion; anything longer requires a notice at Wikitravel:Protected pages. As to "messing it up", I think we all messed up the first time we did most things around here - anything can be undone, so I'd say just give it a shot. The "expires" field parses human-readable text, so "1 day", "24 hours", etc should all be valid expiration dates. -- Ryan • (talk) • 11:54, 3 June 2010 (EDT)
Me Vandal i hardly think so...
Wrh2 i read up of a little of the page creation vandal and thats just wrong i don't agree with system. Oh and look at my contribs and tell me why Odenton failed. --3beetfarm 15:23, 3 June 2010 (EDT)
ya burn my edits any i have as breadcrumbs come on just trying to get some places going on here ur shooting me down. --3beetfarm 17:02, 3 June 2010 (EDT)
Hi Ryan, hope you have a joyful weekend. I just started to wonder if there is an easy trick to see the IP of logged in users? I lately became suspicious that some guys have multiple logins and would like to confirm that. This would be especially helpful if some anon IP is blocked and via another IP they create an login. Thank you very much in advance and best regards from sunny Zurich, jan 12:15, 5 June 2010 (EDT)
I don't know of anything, although that doesn't mean that a tool doesn't exist. In the past I think we've always had to watch various users and try to identify patterns in order to make best guesses about what accounts were sock puppets. You might want to raise this issue in the Pub to see if anyone more familiar with Mediawiki knows of any available tools. -- Ryan • (talk) • 12:21, 5 June 2010 (EDT)
Hello Ryan, would you please change my username from Arjenvanslingerlandt to Faust?
Thanks in advance!
--Arjenvanslingerlandt 05:38, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
Sorry, that name has already been taken (see Special:Contributions/Faust). Is there another name that you would prefer? Also, note that you can check to see if a name is already in use on the Special:Listusers page. -- Ryan • (talk) • 10:36, 30 June 2010 (EDT)
Hi Ryan, currently there is a spam attack ongoing. I can delete the usertalk pages but not the user page. I always get a message that says Internal error maybe somebody else already deleted that page. What shall i do? I also enhance the blacklist but the spambot changes always a bit in the url. jan 15:47, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
I don't see any user pages that need to be deleted - is there a specific example you can point out? -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:57, 1 July 2010 (EDT)
The spambot that creates new accounts and fills them with spam is back. He always links to pages connect dot cityname dot. Is there a way to blacklist this pattern. Also the newly created user accounts should be deleted because otherwise after thirty days they will not stay a unpatrolled. jan 06:34, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
I don't think there is any way to delete user accounts using the tools provided to admins. As to coming up with a pattern to block the URLs being used by this bot, I'll update the ones you've created thus far, and we can generalize it further if this continues to be a problem. -- Ryan • (talk) • 11:24, 2 July 2010 (EDT)
Hi Ryan, What is your reason for deleting the external links to Diver Alert Network (DAN) on the Scuba Diving article? I think they are useful information for any scuba diving traveller, as DAN is an extremely valuable resource/service to the travelling diver. If you have a diving accident in an out of the way part of the world, DAN is by far the most comprhensive resource for sorting it out. No diver should remain unaware of the options. I have no connection with them except my policy.
Cheers, Peter (Southwood)Talk 07:49, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
If there should be a link to them then by all means add it - I was doing a quick pass through the article since there seemed to be a number of questionable external links, and removed the DAN links mostly because there were four of them including one for travel insurance, which seemed highly suspect. A single link is probably fine if it's a worthwhile resource. -- Ryan • (talk) • 10:55, 9 July 2010 (EDT)
I think it is a good resource as I use them myself, I admit to bias, but they are really a valuable resource for medical and equipment insurance for scuba travellers, who often have or at oleast in the past had. difficulty getting cover at reasonable premiums. DAN was set up by divers to do what the other insurers were not willing to do at the time. I will go back and look at what seems reasonable for the article. Peter (Southwood)Talk 12:31, 22 July 2010 (EDT)
Please stop edit spamming. Read the rules carefully. And read the page. Also, use your regular account to make changes to other people's work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Box582 (talk • contribs)
Hi Ryan, please see my comments about Best Western at . If you need a corporate marketing contact, I will provide it for you. Cheers, WineCountryInn 15:13, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
Thanks! The hotel chain blacklisting doesn't look like something that would ever pass muster here, although many of the marketers are HUGELY annoying and actually do a fair amount of damage to some guides. I haven't personally noticed a problem with the Best Western chain, but if it becomes an issue then I (or someone else) will definitely get in touch. -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:48, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
I just want to make sure that it does not get to the level of blacklisting an entire cooperative of small business owners, as this would be a highly unfair broad brushing of individual businesses. My email is , if you need contacts or an intermediary to intercede on behalf of BW owners to help develop a coherent internal BW policy regarding Wikitravel. After all, I do have a foot in both camps. WineCountryInn 15:56, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
Problem users tend to be marketing companies - someone like Special:Contributions/22.214.171.124, who never respond to talk page messages or other attempts at contact, but continually add badly formatted, tout-ish listings, and occasionally change good listings from actual travelers into content that is copy-and-pasted from marketing brochures. In the past 1-2 years the number of these users has increased dramatically, and while we've established some guidelines for them to follow, it is often difficult to make sure that their edits are dealt with, hence the discussion about blacklisting chains that use them. That discussion, however, came no where close to achieving consensus, based on some strong opinions that "broad brushing" (as you've said) is the wrong approach for dealing with problem users, and it would only be if the problem worsened to the point where it was out of control that I could ever see such a measure being implemented. Long story short, it would be great to be able to deal with the marketers, but don't worry about entire chains getting blacklisted. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:14, 31 July 2010 (EDT)
Thanks for all the help and encouragement you're giving me all around the site. I withdrew the two deletion nominations and resolved them as you suggested.
The only way I'll learn is to get feedback; but at least I usually won't make the same mistake again.
I started off with what I know well, and added or enhanced the Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site article. I think I'm pretty much finished with it, until changes or suggestions pop up. I know that it lacks a map, but would appreciate any other comments on format, phrasing, missing info, conflicts with policy, etc., so I can improve this article and also ones in the future. (I also asked this on Peterfitzgerald, but then learned he's traveling. I hate it when people just duplicate requests like this all over the place without at least acknowledging it.) Meanwhile, I'm reading policies and talk pages, trying to get some background on how things should be. And I just got a new button today: move! Next time, I won't have to get you to move something for me (thanks for doing that for Gondwana Rainforests of Australia last week). I guess still more come at 30 or 90 days. Bill in STL 00:10, 3 August 2010 (EDT)
This revert is okay. It's true that the police can get involved for people throwing around a Nazi salute, but it's far more unlikely that crowds of Germans will go after anyone. The editor was probably well intentioned, but edit was exaggerated. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:06, 9 August 2010 (EDT)
Thanks. The user in question updated a variety of articles with advice that seemed stereotyped to me, so I suspected they might not actually be basing the edits on first-hand knowledge. Good to see you around here again, by the way. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:40, 9 August 2010 (EDT)
Thanks. I'm hoping to be able to edit more often now with the thesis finally turned in, but I also just sent my Mac away to be repaired and that'll be a few weeks, so as long as the little lady isn't using hers, I should be on more often. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:46, 9 August 2010 (EDT)
I'm really enjoying the new structure you're providing in the help, policy, and administration pages. I feel that the work of assigning categories to some of the pages really needs experience of using the site and the pages, and so deliberately have not been helping to assign them. But I am certainly using them, and finding some pages which I had overlooked before. Thanks for all your work.
And today I passed my one-month on the site, and the system marked my first edit as patrolled automatic! Bill in STL 13:57, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
I'll be very interested to see whether you use your newfound powers for good or evil :) Thanks for the feedback on the categories - I've been wanting to start a project to clean up the documentation for years now, so the kick in the pants was much appreciated. Hopefully once everything is tagged we can go through what's there and do some refactoring as our docs are often contradictory, duplicated, and generally not the best example of what the Wikitravel community can produce. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:11, 13 August 2010 (EDT)
For your proactive and dedicated work on categorizing the Wikitravel namespace, I award you this barnstar. --LtPowers 09:16, 18 August 2010 (EDT)
Much obliged - I haven't seen one of these in quite some time :) -- Ryan • (talk) • 10:36, 18 August 2010 (EDT)
Hey Ryan.... User:Hypatia requested a while back on shared to be renamed to Puzzlement, here on :en too.... can you take care of it? Thanks! – cacahuatetalk 19:33, 20 August 2010 (EDT)