Hello MarinaK! Welcome to Wikitravel.
To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Wikitravel:Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub.
I'm a little confused by some of your recent edits, which combine very useful copyediting, and the removal of some information that probably doesn't belong, with deletions of significant content that should probably stay, as well as deletion of entire article sections. Just to check, was this edit, for example, fully in line with your intentions? --Peter Talk 11:29, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
Hi, I notice that you are removing a large amount of content from a number of pages eg. Rome. Is there a specific reason for it? --Nick 11:59, 24 April 2008 (EDT)
Your recent otherwise good edits to Paris just nuked all the interwiki links and other meta-information at the end of the article. Please don't delete them. Jpatokal 07:41, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
My apologies! I didn't realise. MarinaK
Marina, please explain why you removed much content from Budapest and its districts articles? What's wrong with it? --DenisYurkin 15:49, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
Hi Denis. The Budapest had many sections in which the writing was poor, there were many grammatical errors, and I even found advertisements within the sleep listings which I removed. Any listings that were not reviewed, I deleted as it brings down the quality of content. Marina
Antwerpen external links removals
Hi, please don't delete valid primary external links as you have done at . If you don't like the format, fix it, don't just delete it. Please see Wikitravel:External links if you are unclear on what constitutes a valid link and what does not. --Nick 15:35, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
Hi. Are they the external links at the bottom? Sorry for that, I didn't realise it. I deleted it as I'm exporting this pages to a pdf document and it doesn't look good when the links appear at the bottom of the pdf document.
- Yes, those and other primary links such as De Lijn , they are completely valid and useful and in the case of the stuff at the bottom, required in order to make wikitravel work. I have also restored some of the listings you have deleted and will be restoring some more since there is no valid reason for their removal. It is really hard to get info into a wiki and we prefer to fix rather than delete the content that we already have.
- You do seem to be rather good at fixing content. The grammatical and copy edit work you do is of excellent quality and greatly improves the content. It does unfortunately get overshadowed by the huge loss in content that you are causing.
- If you need the file to be without http links so you can use it in pdf format, then I would suggest that you look at  to export the articles you want and then run it through some translator (a simple XSLT script will do) to automatically remove the contents you do not want and reformat the sections/listings in any other way you might wish. It will give provide you with something more useful to you without causing content loss on wikitravel.
- In short, please do not stop doing those copyedits, but please take care not to remove valid, useful and required information.
- --Nick 02:12, 8 May 2008 (EDT)
Hi Nick. Thank you for your suggestion and helpful advice. As you can tell, I am new in the wiki community and am just getting started and trying to find my feet. While editing is my forte and my profession, I am still learning how to edit wiki articles. Thanks for your patience, I won't delete any more primary links or necessary content. Marina
I reverted your edits on Bruges. You can't just remove listings or primary links (as with the ferry link) for no reason. Always put a reason in the Summary box if you do remove a listing. I see you have been warned on removeing primary links before. What's the problem? --OldPine 21:13, 7 May 2008 (EDT)
Hi Old Pine. First time wiki contibutor, long time editor. I'm still learning the ropes with contributing to wiki articles and I'm afraid that my editing instincts are getting the better of me. Thanks for your patience, I'll ensure that this doesn't happen in the future.
Hi Marina. First I want to thank you for the cleanup work that you've been doing in Paris. However, some of the edits are getting a bit heavy-handed. Please don't remove stub listings, they are there to provide an easy way for newbies to get involved.
Also while it's really great that you've taken an interest in doing grammar editing, please be aware that this is not Wikipedia, and that we're interested in preserving more of a fun, even cheeky tone and writing style here. In short please keep doing the grammar edits, but please try to insert a bit of sass where you can, rather than removing it.
Thanks! -- Mark 01:07, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Mark. As you can probably tell, I'm new at contributing to wiki articles, although I've been an editor for years and I'm afraid that my editing instincts are getting the better of me. I completely apologise for removing stub listings, I've been doing that as I think it makes the article look unkempt and incomprehensive but now I understand that they are there to get newbies involved.
- I completely agree that a fun, cheeky style is needed, and in fact I thought that I was injecting this into the articles. I've been a writer for a major travel publishing company for years and am well aware of the style that readers want.
- Once again, thanks for your patience and advice. Marina
- Hi Marina, I have a couple of pointers.
- First on these discussion pages we try to make it clear who said what. One of the ways we do that is to use ":"s at the beginning of each line of a comment to indent the line. This sort of creates a threaded flow to the conversation. In this case I've used two of them to indent the line two tabstops.
- Second, there's an easy way to sign your posts. Put this text after everything that you write in a discussion: -- ~~~~. -- 05:21, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
Stop removing external links
Stop it, OK? And please put the ones you took out of Paris back. Also do not delete stubby listings: fill them up with information instead.
You're been warned about these many times. If you need to reformat our content for your own purposes, the correct way to do it is to mirror/copy the page onto your own site and then hack away to your heart's content, but removing useful, valid information from Wikitravel articles is considered vandalism, and if you keep this up you'll get blocked. Jpatokal 04:08, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Jpatokal. Firstly, my sincere apologies. As you can tell, I am a newbie, and also an editor, so my editing instincts are getting the better of me. I've been deleting empty stub listings as I think they look unkempt and bring down the articles, but now that I've been told its to encourage newbies (like me) to participate, I won't.
- I have been an editor and a writer for a major travel publishing house for many years and I've been hoping that I've been making a positive contribution to the wiki pages through meticulous copy edits and a colourful writing style. However, as I have been advised, my deletions are overshadowing my good work.
- Once again, I apologise and have been doing these inaccuracies purely through lack of knowledge and not anything els. Now that I have been told, I will ensure that this does not happen. Thanks for your patience, and please let me know if I am doing anything wrong. Thanks, Marina
- Thanks. Trust me, we do appreciate your effort, it's just frustrating that the great work you are doing otherwise is in parts overshadowed by these deletions... Jpatokal 03:36, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Jpatokal. It's definitely not my intention to bring down the wiki page, so now that I know not to delete empty stubs, I won't. Again, many thanks. MarinaK
- I've noticed that you've started replacing stubby listings with more complete listings for different places. While your contribution is appreciated I would like to know what the source if this listing information is. Is it first hand experience? Or are you compiling the listing text from a number of reviews? Please tell us that you're not just copying them from the print guide that you edit, because that would be a copyright violation (unless the publisher were to give you permission of course). -- Mark 05:21, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Mark. Any new listings is all my work and does not appear anywhere else. Working for a publishing company I am fully aware of the legalities involving copyright violation and I would never do this. For wiki travel, I am working on cities that I have not done any work for in the past. MarinaK
I just wanted to mention that you shouldn't let any criticism stress you out, especially when you're beginning. When I first started out, I was doing everything wrong, but learned a lot after a lot of help from people like Jpatokal and Mark. Now, three years later, I have 11,892 edits to my credit and I still, on occasion, make mistakes. If you have any questions, just ask any of us. -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 13:33, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Sapphire. I really appreciate you letting me know that, I was beginning to get nervous every time I touch a wiki article! Still finding my feet on here, so it's good to know that I can ask people like you for help. I've been a bit slack in creating my userpage but think I should do this soon! MarinaK
- No worries. I'm not sure if you know this, but you can sign your name easier than typing it out each time. Simply, type -- ~~~~, which will produce something similar, albeit, not as customized as this: -- Sapphire • (Talk) • 14:15, 12 May 2008 (EDT)
User ban nomination
And again. Stop deleting things, especially Thai romanizations! I don't understand why this is so difficult for you, but if you're not going stop, then we'll have to stop you. Please defend yourself at Wikitravel:User ban nominations#User:MarinaK. Jpatokal 00:19, 17 May 2008 (EDT)
- For some reason, I cannot save to the Userban page, so I am detailing my response here:
(MarinaK's defense moved to Wikitravel:User ban nominations). Not sure why editing the ban page didn't work for you, but I've moved the comment for you. -- Colin 16:06, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
- Okay I see what the problem was. Something else on the bad nom page was on the spam blacklist, so I had to remove it first. You should be able to do your own edits there now. -- Colin 16:10, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
Marina, may I ask you to please undelete all the official links, stubby content and listings with no reviews that you have deleted? It will take huge effort, but leaving it to someone else to repair articles after your edits sound even larger evil for me. --DenisYurkin 16:22, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
- I agree with Denis, undoing those edits yourself will definitely be a good idea. I left my comments on the user ban page, but would just like to add one more thing: I've been around wikitravel for a while and have even been nominated as an admin, but even now some of my edits will be questioned or reverted by others. We all make mistakes; we should just be prepared to correct them and learn from them. Working on Wikitravel is really fun and enjoyable once you have settled in. --Nick 17:21, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Nick and Denis. Like Nick, I left my comments on my Userban page, which hopefully explains some of my seemingly crazy edits. Denis, I'm unsure how to undelete edits I've already done. If you could let me know how to do this, I'm prepared to do it.
- --MarinaK 17:41, 19 May 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- Start with pages like http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Barcelona&action=history, and ask your questions here as you go? --DenisYurkin 11:48, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Denis. I've taken a look at the page and I'm a bit confused. Sorry to be a pain, but if someone can explain this to me indepth, I'll be happy to re-edit. --MarinaK 13:17, 20 May 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- With pages like http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Barcelona&action=history, you can browse through recent edits in a specific article (Barcelona in my example). More practically, you can:
- find lines with your name in them
- open "(last)" link for in a new browser window every edit you have made (see edits signed by your username)
- for every edit, see a side-by-side comparison of your version with the version before your edit -- for example, http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Barcelona&diff=834469&oldid=834457
- copy the pieces you have removed, and paste them back into a current edition of the article -- for example, "Baja Beach Club"
- Let me know if this helps. --DenisYurkin 11:27, 25 May 2008 (EDT)
Marina, how's your progress on restoring the removed content? --DenisYurkin 15:04, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
- While it would be appreciated, as a volunteer Marina is under no obligation whatsoever to do so. Feel free to plunge forward yourself if the issue is bothering you. -- Colin 19:39, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
- I always believed that we aim at encouraging responsible contributors, and we encourage responsible behavior for the sake of better community. I find it very short-sighted if we turn a blind eye to destructive edits, and don't insist on repairing of what a user admits she has broken. --DenisYurkin 17:41, 10 August 2008 (EDT)
Font Issues on a Mac
I also am using a Mac. Both Safari and Firefox work for me with Thai script. But knowing that I work on Wikitravel, I clicked the "fonts for additional languages" option when I installed MacOS. According to Apple, here's how you can do that:
- To install additional fonts for your language, insert the appropriate Mac OS X Install disc into your optical drive and double-click “Fonts for Additional Languages” or the Additional Asian Fonts package.
Let us know how that works out -- Colin 18:30, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Colin. Thanks for figuring it out. Unfortunately it's ging to be a couple of weeks before I see my friend to get that disc off him, so in the meantime, I won't delete any scripts, no matter how funny they look like on my screen! ; )
Just to confirm, on Bangkok, I keep getting these msgs- Phahonyothin (พหลโยธิน) area of Bangkok. Does anyone else get this in the Phahonyothin district of Bangkok?
--MarinaK 18:39, 19 May 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- I'm assuming you're seeing ?? and that's why you're asking? I can see the Thai script fine above... using Safari on a Mac – cacahuate talk 21:57, 19 May 2008 (EDT)
- Just to make it clearer, here is a screen shot of the above from firefox on linux. Note the special font in Phahonyothin (พหลโยธิน). --Nick 01:19, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi all. Yep, I just see question marks instead of script. --MarinaK 01:38, 20 May 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- What version of firefox? There has been some Firefox font issues on the mac, so for now you are probably better off using Safari. Firefox 3 seems to fix all those issues on the Mac, but it is still in beta and you probably want to wait until it is released before trying it. --Nick 14:43, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Nick. I'm using Firefox v 2, so I may change to Safari soon as you say. Thanks! --MarinaK 14:49, 20 May 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
Please be more careful when editing articles about places you are obvious unfamiliar with. For example, "Changi Airport" really is actively "nice" as opposed to merely "clean", "HarbourFront" is the official name of the place, there's a large bus company called "NiCE", and Orchard Towers really has "not a few" (=many), not a "few" transsexuals.
Also, I don't understand why you're removing commas and spaces from the listings, so now many look like 1234567 instead of 1234567, .
So I've rolled back all your edits. Jpatokal 01:32, 11 June 2008 (EDT)
==Hi Jani. I have actually been to Singapore and I was careful only to make minor edits. Describing Changi airport as 'clean' rather than 'nice' is kind of an objective issue, as I felt that the word 'clean' makes a clearer statement than what the word 'nice' makes. The 'not a few' rather than 'few' may be a cultural difference between us, as grammatically for me, 'not a few' is confusing and vague, maybe the term 'more than a few' makes more sense?
I'm finding there's a lot of spaces between words, especially after full stops, so I'm deleting spaces so it reads better. Any feedback you give me is all constructive so I'm taking it all on board : )
--MarinaK 14:48, 11 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- FYI, the software used on Wikitravel ignores spaces, so it doesn't matter if you have one space or two spaces or three spaces or fifteen spaces between words of sentences. (Edit this comment and see!) Removing them doesn't hurt, but neither is it useful... Jpatokal 00:58, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Jani. Oh, I had no idea! Thanks so much for letting me know, I've been wasting so much time on it! --MarinaK 13:26, 12 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- Unfortunately the double spaces appear when I convert the article into a pdf. If it's ok, can I still continue to delete double spaces? --MarinaK 15:03, 12 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK
- What process are you using for converting to PDF? Maybe we can improve that instead. -- Colin 15:39, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Colin. I'm using Acrobat. Any suggestions? Thanks! --MarinaK 15:55, 12 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- I don't know what that means exactly :-). Are you getting the stuff to Acrobat via the "Print" function in your web browser? It's important that you use "print" because it formats the page very differently. -- Colin 16:48, 12 June 2008 (EDT)
Psst: over at Contentshare, we'd be delighted to license you some battle-hardened software for making beautiful PDF versions of Wikitravel guides. Jpatokal 01:57, 13 June 2008 (EDT)
Days of week format
Hi there. I've noticed you've been editing the days of the week format in listings, such as turning "M" into "Mon". Would you mind stopping? The way it was before actually fits our manual of style (See Wikitravel:Time and date formats). Otherwise, nice work. You caught a lot of misspelled words and some bad grammar, and I thank you for that. :) PerryPlanet 21:34, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
Hi Perry. My apologies, will stop now. --MarinaK 21:49, 30 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
Recent Vancouver edits
I just reversed a number of the edits you recently made to the Vancouver and Vancouver/City Center pages. Some of them were good (thanks for the day of the week/time of day edits!), but there were a lot where the city or district name appeared twice in a row (for example, after one of your edits it looked like "on Fraser St in East Van East Van"). Just so you know, per our Manual of Style for internal links, an internal link should appear as "on Fraser St in East Van". Shaund 14:40, 17 August 2008 (EDT)
- Hi ShaunD. I realised too late that it was appearing twice. I deleted all the ones I had already done but I may have missed a couple. Btw, just want to say that from a copy editing perspective, Vancouver is one of the strongest cities I've worked on! --MarinaK 13:54, 18 August 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- Thanks for all those edits on the Vancouver pages and digging up some additional info for the short listings. It's a big help (and saved me some detail work I was avoiding). Shaund 23:56, 19 August 2008 (EDT)
Hi MarinaK. Thanks for your recent edits in Edinburgh. I've been working on tidying up and districtifying for a while now so I'm glad that someone else is also getting stuck in. I noticed you've removed quite a few listings from theOld Town, mostly accommodation and restaurants. Any particular reason for this? Tarr3n 05:28, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
- Hi Tarr3n. Yes, I have been working on Edinburgh. Regarding the deletion of some accommodation and restaurant listings, the majority of restaurant listings were just the name and addresses of the restaurants. I then researched a lot of these listings and wrote a review for them so the article is more substantial. I deleted some listings because I either could not find a lot of information on them, and also I thought it was better to have fewer listings with reviews attached to them rather than a bunch of listings with no info. Please let me know if you disagree with this. Thanks, --MarinaK 13:56, 21 August 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- Definitely yes I agree with you. It was my intention to do exactly what you suggest and add at least a short description to listings where people have just entered the name and address. I'm delighted you've got involved in editing Edinburgh as a city that attracts so many visitors really should be one of the best on Wikitravel. I only just finished districtifying - see my note on the article Talk page and my Google map as I'd appreciate any comments you have on the way I've done it.
- I don't understand the reasoning behind some of your edits - for example "mediaeval" and "medieval" are both correct spellings - why amend it? "Mezz" Bar is just that, not "The Mezz". Also some of your layout edits have detracted from the sense of the articles - see my comment on Talk:Edinburgh/East for one example of this. Tarr3n 09:33, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
- Hi. The reason why I changed the one instance of 'mediaeval' is that throughout all the Edinburgh articles, it was spelt as 'medieval. If there was a meaning behind this, then I apologise. I've also responded on the Ediburgh talk pages, and I would really like to help you flesh out more listings if you like. --MarinaK 13:33, 22 August 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
- No, that makes sense. I think you're right to look for consistency within articles. Sorry if I came over as stroppy!Tarr3n 08:47, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
- No worries at all! : ) --MarinaK 13:40, 25 August 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
Hi Marina, I just thought that the extra bits in the intro were a bit encyclopaedic (rather than travel related) and a bit politically biased. You put a lot of really good stuff in the rest of the article though. -- DanielC 16:13, 11 September 2008 (EDT)