Wikitravel does not exist to sell Bihar, it's written for travelers. We present the good, the bad and the ugly, and let the traveller make up their own mind. Please spend your time writing about the tourist attractions, not deleting things you don't like. Jpatokal 07:59, 4 December 2008 (EST)
Hmmm please stop that! Jpatokal count among some of us users, who care very deeply about this place. instead of complaining about the current state of the article, improve it, wikitravel should both tell the bad and the good stories about places, and with a bit of practice, it's possible to do good writing that encompasses both, actually the best articles does this. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 09:29, 4 December 2008 (EST)
I'm going to revert Bihar once more, apart from the fact that you deleted my corrections on the geography, if we are going to have a meaningful discussion, people need to be able to judge the paragraph, that caused the controversy. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 09:43, 4 December 2008 (EST)
Hi Manoj, I agree with Stefan's suggestions. I am quite familiar with Bihar, and, yes, as you state, it does have a wealth of historical and cultural sites, but it is also bereft of quality infrastructure and banditry and strikes are major problems in the state. You cannot deny that, and to hide these facts from the traveler is doing them a grave disservice. As Stefan suggests, keep the negative facts, but add information about the state's cultural assets. Wikitravel is here to serve the traveler, not act as an advertisement for a particular region. I actually quite enjoy hanging out in Bihar, but we have to be honest about its inadequacies. Anyway, I hope you can do a good job to improve the article in a way that benefits the traveler. Please feel free to contact me or any other regular contributor if you have any questions. Cheers. WindHorse 10:02, 4 December 2008 (EST)
banditry and strikes are major problems in the state : There are false informations. Banditry was a problem in the state of Uttar Pradesh (famous for Phulan Devi) and strikes in West Bengal. On the other hand Bihar has the problem of kidnapping and caste wars (Naxalism). Naxalism is not a simple law and order problem, but a popular uprising by the lower caste people. Kidnapping flourished under the political leaders of the state and has reduced considerably. In recent times there have been many cases of mass lynching. Let us now generalize things. Manoj nav 23:30, 4 December 2008 (EST)
Several incidents of banditry on running trains have been reported from Bihar in the last few weeks. ... The latest report of the National Crime Records Bureau says: "The Patna rail police jurisdiction alone accounts for 23 per cent of all crimes on wheels committed throughout the country." (Dec 2007)
And no, I have no personal involvement whatsoever in this, I'm not even Indian. If you check my contributions, you'll find me fighting similar battles over South Korea, Philippines, etc. Jpatokal 00:44, 5 December 2008 (EST)
The article on sify also says "Banned Maoist outfits are engaged in crimes on wheels. Even the involvement of Government Railway Police (GRP) in such crimes is reported regularly." As I have already said the problem of Naxalism is not that simple law and order problem.
According to Dr Shaibal Gupta, a prominent social scientist, from Asian Development Research Institute(ADRI), Patna, "The laws of the market, celebrated by capitalism as the biggest force of integration, are constrained in Bihar by the state's enormous feudal baggage. And the interplay of this feudal baggage and the speculative logic of decadent capitalism is daily drawing the state into the vortex of growing chaos and anarchy. Presiding over the alarming descent is Bihar's own combination of a brutalised civil society and a … criminalised … state system. Anarchism of either militant or peaceful variety, practised through armed squads or reformist NGOs, is hardly able to make any difference to this larger picture of anarchy, disorder, loot and oppression. But there is another side to the Bihar story. It is a highly politicised society, and there are major mobilisations of the rural poor for land and liberty, for subsistence, social dignity and basic political rights. These mobilisations are frequently dismissed (not least in the Indian press) as 'Naxalite' and therefore as reflecting ill-considered left wing adventurism. This mis-represents their sustained support by and for low caste, assetless rural people, and their positive programmes for their rights."
In last few years I have seen two youth from my neighborhood dying because of poisoning on trains. They died almost one year after they were poisoned and initially they looked ok. These incidents happened near Delhi. Poisoning on trains, which makes one unconscious instantly, so as to loot luggage is one of the biggest problem on Indian trains. The article on sify doesn't gives a hit of it.
We can caution the tourist by writing - "Please do not accept foot item from unknown people as a courtesy or gift. It's safe to buy food items from hawkers or at shops." Also it would be wise to mention about train robbery. But just robbery or banditry is too general term. Manoj nav 01:18, 5 December 2008 (EST)
Isn't it OK to copy information from free sources like wikipedia? Manoj nav 12:33, 4 December 2008 (EST)
Hi Manoj, while it seems like a good idea to use the Wikipedia format, actually the copyright for the two sites is not compatible. Therefore, we cannot copy from WP, but only establish a link and use them as reference. Also, WP is more academic in appearance, whereas WT prefers to be more traveler friendly in style. Why don't you use the information on WP, but write it in WT style - see Karnataka as an example? Anyway, I like the introduction you wrote. It tells the story as it is. Cheers. Feel free to contact whenever you have questions, though be aware that I may be away from WT for some weeks. WindHorse 12:41, 4 December 2008 (EST)
Hi. To answer your question, please have a look at Wikitravel:Star articles for a list of articles which have been deemed the best by the community. Let me know if you have any questions. Texugo 00:19, 5 December 2008 (EST)
Thanks for your response, we will keep updating the positive thingh & keep watching.
Might I suggest taking a few of those photos you just uploaded and putting them in the articles for Patna, Rajgir, etc.? Those pages have none, and this might be too many for an article of this length. Texugo 06:03, 5 December 2008 (EST)
I shall do it, but right now I got to leave. Cheers Manoj nav 06:09, 5 December 2008 (EST)
Hey Manoj, sorry to create more waves of discontent, but due to incompatibility of copyright rules and disparity in styles, WT does not accept material copied from Wikipedia. So, when you get the chance, could you work on the History section, which is currently a direct copy. Cheers. By the way, how is life in north of the state after the monsoon flooding? This year was really bad... Anyway, thanks for giving the history section your attention... WindHorse 12:39, 6 December 2008 (EST)
Life is still bad in the Kosi region. A few of the villages are still under water because of lack of drainage into the river. Thanks anyways for the concern.
Regarding the history section, I wrote those lines on wikipedia. I don't mind writing one more version for wikitravel. Manoj nav 12:49, 6 December 2008 (EST)