Since you were so instrumental in making the London cotm our most successful collaboration of all time, I thought you might like to look over the results. Thanks again for your help! --PeterTalk 14:13, 1 January 2010 (EST)
How to draw a map
I have finally re-written this and would be grateful for any input you have (especially as I used your Thailand map as an example :) ). My thinking is on Peter's talk page, so I will not clutter your page and repeat it here. Cheers. --Burmesedays 07:55, 8 January 2010 (EST)
I just realized that we didn't list the Territories as a country needing a regions map, but it would be nice if you could create one for them from your Israel SVG, graying out the de jure Israeli side, but preserving the visual info regarding de facto control. --PeterTalk 17:13, 13 January 2010 (EST)
Yes, looks great! The only thing I'd recommend (for the Israel map as well) would be to increase the text size on the key—it's very hard to read right now, and it might be possible to get it large enough where it could be readable in-article. --PeterTalk 17:34, 13 January 2010 (EST)
Really good job on both of those maps GT. Really good. For the text in the key box you might want to look for a more condensed font or play with the kerning. It ought to be somehow possible to make that text readable in-article. Great job. --Burmesedays 21:04, 13 January 2010 (EST)
Diacritic-letters in article names
Although I don't want to nitpick around, given the explicit permission to use diacritic letters at the second sentence of Wikitravel:Naming_conventions#Romanization, I have to admit that I do not entirely agree with you in your unilateral action of moving Uludağ to Uludag and I am not entirely satisfied with the explanation of "moved as the character is not used in wikitravel".—Vidimian 19:34, 25 January 2010 (EST)
I already moved it back, you are completely spot on. This is the reason I started that topic there, to get some more clarity on the issue. --globe-trotter 21:15, 25 January 2010 (EST)
Good call, finally someone taking the bull by its horns and start sorting out this mess. A round of applause from me good sir :o) --Stefan (sertmann)talk 11:36, 2 February 2010 (EST)
I second that and will be helping soon! Shouldn't Thailand be the CotM for February? Or did I dream that? --Burmesedays 11:39, 2 February 2010 (EST)
Thanks! It is the CotM for February :) --globe-trotter 11:46, 2 February 2010 (EST)
And a khop khun khrap from me as well! I'm really glad you're doing this. Jpatokal 22:25, 5 February 2010 (EST)
How much work are you planning to do on Ayutthaya? I find the "See" listings are actually surprisingly informative, but I saw just now you are planning to add your own descriptions - what gives? automatic reaction to all the junk they've uploaded, or are you planning some really thorough work here? --Stefan (sertmann)talk 12:08, 7 February 2010 (EST)
Yes, I know this is the most rigorous move I've done, but as I wrote in the description, I'm going to give it a big overhaul throughout the month. The listings are still on the Talk page, will also use that information to make something nice of the See section. As you might see, it's more of a mess than it looks-- some sights are even listed twice! --globe-trotter 12:30, 7 February 2010 (EST)
I think the general principle of sticking all the TAT stuff, good and bad, onto a Talk/Listing page is smart. It is then easy for any user to go to that page, pick out the useful bits and place them back into the article. --Burmesedays 04:32, 8 February 2010 (EST)
Hi! I work for almost a year on Ko Samui and saw you made some bigger edits. I'm fine in general with your edits but will do a partly revert on the medical part as this is important for travellers. There are so many accidents and people should at least know some of the more reliable clinics... jan 04:22, 8 February 2010 (EST)
I listingified the hospitals listed now, a big improvement from the situation before I think! (with 20 hospitals we were not far off from being the Yellow Pages..) --globe-trotter 11:38, 8 February 2010 (EST)
Sorry, I have to heavily disagree with you on this issue. Why are you removing the information about Thailand from TAT into the reaches where normal users can't find them? (i.e. history or talk page) They've proven extremely useful for me (I've spent here working and travelling over a year), as only thanks to them I have discovered some really great sites off the beaten path no foreigner even knows about! The TAT listings of hotels are very informative and give perfect pricing overview, along with names/addresses. I think you're doing not a good job at all by simply removing it. Also, I don't understand the redirection of the provincial pages to provincial capitals since provinces are so much bigger and contain information on different regions (March 12, 2010)
I have not removed any information, I have moved the TAT dump to the Talk pages because it was a quicker way to sort out Thailand. Just look at how Thailand was 6 months ago, probably the most messed up country on all of Wikitravel. You can still access all the information.
About the listings, when people who actually travelled to the destinations add information back, they will add personal traveler experience and improve all the articles. What happened before is that TAT placed all the listings in there (neglecting the Wikitravel Manual of Style) without adding any information on services, pricing, positives and negatives, etc. This doesn't give an incentive to other Wikitravellers to contribute and thus led to Thailand not further improving (instead for a few articles which TAT mess up — such as Mae Salong. If you have visited a listing, add it and put a good description to improve the articles.
The provinces is a bit the same story. The provinces are not proper travel regions, because they are very fragmented. In Wikitravel we use regional groupings with about 9 cities in them. Most provinces in Thailand evolve around one city, for example Lopburi. Lopburi does not only cover the Amphoe Lopburi, but it also covers other attractions in the vicinity. Wikitravel does not follow the regions a country uses, simply because they happen not to be practical. I think the way its done now, Thailand is cleaned up nicely, we have proper travel regions and the articles look interesting again. But anyhow, please plunge forward and improve them the way you see fit. --globe-trotter 04:29, 12 March 2010 (EST)
Our Thailand scheme is unrecognisably superior to the mess it was in a month ago. That excellent structural work has gone hand-in-hand with cleaning up the articles. If there are specific listings from the TAT data dump that you wish to see back in the articles, (only those for which you have personal experience), then please do reinstate them. Everything has been kept, as globe-trotter explained. --Burmesedays 04:37, 12 March 2010 (EST)
I note you're still keeping an eye on Nakhon Ratchasima. I've been working on it single-handedly for ther past few months. It was just a big, messy, skeletal list when I started on it but it's coming along now. Any advice regarding the article is always welcome (it gets pretty lonely slogging away on an article alone!) and a fresh pair of eyes may notice problems/omissions/deficiencies that I can't. Obviously, things like bars and restaurants still need filling up but any other constructive criticism is always welcome. Promphong 04:13, 16 June 2010 (EDT)
Hi! How about my proposal? jan 12:27, 18 February 2010 (EST)
Hi! I replied on the talk page. jan 11:59, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
Hi! Thank you for the districtification of Berlin. I think we might had a misunderstanding but Schöneberg is part of City West as discussed on the talk page which was also agreed so and is so in the map. You moved the Schöneberg part to South which is wrong. I changed the affiliation. jan 10:23, 31 March 2010 (EDT)
Thanks for notifying me of this mistake, oops! I guess I got a bit confused when moving the info :) Also thanks for the edits you've made. --globe-trotter 11:44, 31 March 2010 (EDT)
Whoah! This looks amazing. Jpatokal 22:07, 23 February 2010 (EST)
Thanks! :D Put a lot of work in it and it turned out nicely :) --globe-trotter 06:22, 24 February 2010 (EST)
I appreciate your work at Wikitravel, but I strongly disagree with the way of handling the TAT information. I consider myself pretty much a skilled user, but it took me almost a month where the amazing listings (yes, I've visited many of the places) have been disappearing. Simply removing it (I had to fish for it in the History) is what I consider vandalism. Sorry for the harsh words, but removing it also removes it from the search index and if the user wants to find some information on some local stuff, he/she is left with city article with virtually no useful information.
What I propose is following: Putting back the articles with a template such as this one:
This article or section does not match our manual of style or needs other editing. Please plunge forward, give it your attention and help it improve!
This way, people would be able to learn about the stuff, visit it (such as I did) and later contribute and write about it. Look , I've spent in Thailand over a year and traveled somewhat extensively especially in the south. Had you deleted the articles soone, I wouldn'tve had a clue as to what to visit, how to get there, I wouldn't've had any ideas for all the perfect trips I could do, using TAT information (hotels, local waterfalls, islands, tunnels, etc...) So, in turn, I wouldn't be able to contribute about it later! The TAT listings are actually very informative and from my own experience I can say they truly hepled find some of the real gems of Thai South (and also other parts of Thailand, to a certain extent).
All the TAT information is still there on the relevant talk pages. The structure of the articles was awful with the TAT listings, but I am pleased you managed to find some useful information from that. I would encourage you to go to the TAT information and reinstate to the main articles anything that you found helpful in the real world. --Burmesedays 22:09, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
I knew that getting the Thailand articles and structure cleaned up would get some resistance, but eventually it has all been for the better. Thailand is one of the most visited countries in Asia and its reflection on Wikitravel has been worse than could be expected from a major destination like it. The reason has been that all the articles were a complete mess — thats why I put so many hours into cleaning them up, and hope to encourage other travellers to add their own travel experiences instead of these enormous lists. No listings are removed at all, they can still be found on the Talk pages (or by visiting TAT), and I did that to encourage users to place back the listings with their own useful information. Placing the style tag already happened in many articles, but no one is willing to sort out thousands of listings (for obvious reasons, just moving them to the Talk pages has taken up many many many hours, days and weeks). Anyway, the Thailand articles will now organically grow over time with useful information from travellers themselves instead of being a Yellow Pages-like mess. Please plunge forward and add your valuable experiences, thats eventually what Wikitravel is for :) --globe-trotter 22:51, 29 March 2010 (EDT)
You may have missed my point. Sorry my post is long, but please read it till the end. Actually, all information was useful for me. I'll try and give an example: See Kamphaeng Phet page now. There's virtually no information. Suppose I am an ordinary PC user and don't know anything about history in wiki. How do I know what am I supposed to visit? However, if I take a look at TAT stuff, I can find that for example Khlong Lan National Park interests me. I can find great deal of information on history of the Old City, wealth of information on other interesting sites to choose from. How can I start contributing, if I don't know where to go in the first place?
Another example: Take Yala province and TAT hotels listing. From the list I can easily see price range and addresses and decide where I will spend a night and presonally information like "You can choose a 'kareoke' girl off of the wall when you come in for 200 baht, but that's standard around these parts." I consider totally off-topic.
Another one: Trang has amazing waterfalls. It was very easy for me to work out a detailed itinerary from TAT listings. And actually the idea to visit them came solely from TAT information - before it was moved (I spent a good deal of time finding it later, but I already knew it was there). Now there's no way I would even get a notion that there are some waterfalls in Trang (apart from an IMHO vague remark in the 'See' section, much less how to get there to actually see them. Again, consider people are not so skilled as to visit talk/history page.
P.S. I'd gladly plunge in and improve some articles as soon as I finish traveling. But please, leave some information for normal users there, so they now, where they can go! Or put a big sign, or something - the info from TAT is here and here. But better still I'd recommend to keep it back, although I realize you spent many hours removing it - so that I can, say, search for attraction like Khao Luang National Park and it'd come up in search results. Now I only get Khao San (hardly an attraction). But I visited the real Khao Luang NP and Ban Khiri Wong in Nakhon and again, thanks to TAT. Now I wouldn't have had a clue Ban Khiri Wong exists because the search for Khao luang would come up empty. Am I being a little clearer now?
1) A common PC user doesn't have a clue about History/Talk page or TAT, let alone their website.
2) Interesting places are not indexed now; so how can people visit them if they do not know about them?
3) It erodes (at least) my trust in WT. Now I feel like I have to see the history of every information-poor page. --Babach 04:17, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
You can use the strong language, but I perfectly understood your point the first time. My advise is the same: if you want to add all the TAT information back in a proper manner, I am all for it. Turn the articles into something nice, such as Mae Salong. Just dumping enormous messy lists will disencourage other Wikitravellers to add their own listings, not encourage them as you imply. We have seen many examples of this before in Wikitravel, just look at the history of the Sleep section in Rome. Thailand was one of the most neglected destinations in Asia, and the messy state of decay they were in have contributed to that fact. Listing hundreds of Sleep and other listings is not a goal of Wikitravel.
1) That's only their loss if they don't know how Wikitravel works, our job is to make a great travel guide, not to be the Yellow Pages or tourist agency. Wikiravel has a different goal.
2) It works like this for every destination. Wikitravel articles start out blank, travellers add their experience and the article organically grows. We don't start out dumping tourist agency listings in every Wikitravel article, we start out empty and let travellers add their own experiences.
3) You don't have to look in the history, all listings are perfectly listed in the corresponding Talk page.
The three examples are exactly how it works: you have visited them, please plunge forward and make the articles shine. --globe-trotter 12:11, 30 March 2010 (EDT)
I appears was only half right. My apologies, upon my reading of the Wikitravel:Measurements I note that both forms are considered acceptable.According to the Temperature styleguide the following is how temperatures should be displayed. I had already edited the section before I went and checked. Although personally I dislike the WT manual of style interpretion of times I do think that the 43°C (110°F) or 110°F (43°C) form works better than spelling it out. If my edit offends you are quite entitled to undo it as you are establishing the temp formatting for that article with your edits. felix 21:44, 9 November 2010 (EST)
Ah allright thanks. I thought it was still required. --globe-trotter 12:15, 20 June 2010 (EDT)
Would you mind going over AndreasAndreas' recent edits on Flemish? Given his erroneous insistence that Swedes and Scandinavians can communicate effortless with Germans in their respective native languages, and his vigorous Austro-Bavarian crusade, I don't have much faith in his linguistic additions.
Yes this seems to be a user with a linguistic agenda. I've changed some of his recent edits, especially in the Flanders article. --globe-trotter 08:04, 29 June 2010 (EDT)
I'd like to add you to an ongoing Google Wave discussion relevant for admins, but would need to reach you by email. To preserve your anonymity, you could create an ad hoc email account, associate it with your Wikitravel account, and then email me. I will reply to that email with a Google Wave invitation, for which you can also create an ad hoc @googlewave.com account, to continue to preserve your anonymity. --PeterTalk 08:54, 8 July 2010 (EDT)
New Orleans/Other parts of town
Good day. Could you please explain on the talk page (or link to a Wikitravel policy explaining) what the major problem is with New Orleans/Other parts of town? Thanks much. Cheers, Infrogmation 20:16, 31 August 2010 (EDT)
Hi g-t! A anon user has started a new district/beach in Ko Samui which i suspect is the hotel terrace management. I haven't been to Thailand since early 2009 so i'm a bit uncertain if this has really developed? I would delete vfd it but maybe development is really fast at the island. What are your thoughts? jan 10:37, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
I'm not really well-known in that area, but it seems like there is not that much to do there. At least not enough to warrant its own article. I'd say we merge it into Nathon. --globe-trotter 16:36, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
Map over Hungary
Hi Globe-Trotter! Sv: is working on the guide to Hungary and we really like your map. However - it needs to be translated into swedish. If I provide you with the swedish name tags, would you like to help out, using your english map as its base? I have no idea how to create maps... hence my question.
CZECH REP = TJECKIEN
UKR=UKR (in swedish: UKRAINA)
SLO=SLO (in swedish: SLOVENIEN)
CROATIA = KROATIEN
SERBIA (Vojvodina)=SERBIEN (Vojvodina)
BOSNIA AND HERCEGOVINA=BOSNIEN-HERCEGOVINA
Lake Balaton= Balatonsjön
Central Hungary=Centrala Ungern
Northern Hungary=Norra Ungern
Great Plain=Stora ungerska slättlandet
Thanks a million! Riggwelter 12:36, 19 September 2010 (EDT)
Khao San Road
Hi. Fantastic work on Bangkok. I wish I had your attention to detail. Just checking Khao San Road as I am due to be at an early meeting on Phra Atit in a couple of weeks and want to avoid possible traffic jams when heading there. A couple of points seem to be in contradiction of Wikitravel rules. The Banglumpho market photo has a recognisable individual in the photo and I thought the rules forbid photos of businesses. Is the Tom Yum Kung restaurant sign that remarkable? Anyway, keep up the great work. Shep 14:23, 22 September 2010 (EDT)
I believe the "no faces in pictures" rule does not apply to markets, as there will always be people walking around there in public. See . If this is still a problem, I can also use another image, as I have some others of the Banglampoo Market as well.
About the pictures of businesses, I really wouldn't know how else to make the Eat, Drink and Sleep section more interesting. I did not add the Tom Yum Kung picture for promotion, but to give an idea of the sign-chaos at Khao San Road at night. If this goes against policy, it could be removed, but I think its a nice picture to fill up the gap. --globe-trotter 15:07, 22 September 2010 (EDT)
I'm certainly not insisting as I am not very good at following the rules myself. Rather, I was pointing out what some of the more pedantic Wikitravellers might highlight. Shep 09:41, 23 September 2010 (EDT)
Bangkok/Yaowarat and Pahurat Star nomination
It is now over a month since the last comment, and there don't seem to be any unresolved problems. Go ahead and clap on the Star. -- Peter (Southwood)Talk 04:05, 14 October 2010 (EDT)
Bangkok climate edits
Globetrotter, yes you are correct about the apostrophe usage 1900s vis-à-vis 1900's. I must have had a delusional apostrophic moment but please try not to be so offensive. It was an aberrant yet in good faith edit. I am quite sufficiently capable of reading and writing in the English language. I do not concur that I need to "learn" English as you have suggested as I already have a sufficiently adequate grasp of the language to engage in day to day communications. Sufficient at least to be able to comment that the short section on the climate of Bangkok is very clumsy in style and a little verbose in the method of delivering the required information. I note that you have recently done a considerable amount of very good work on that article. I have not dwelt upon the edit histories to confirm if you are directly responsible for the content of the section dealing with the climate in Bangkok, (such as "around or over 30°C (86°F)". However, that section on climate is lacking the finesse of the rest of the content you have been adding and would certainly benefit from a thorough re-write. As you apparently consider my linguistic skills to be inadequate I will leave you to take care of that yourself without any impediment that may arise from my own perceived insufficiencies. felix 02:21, 15 November 2010 (EST)
The "learn English before changing" was solely meant for this edit, not on your English language skills as a whole. And you're completely right that I shouldn't have responded this way. That said, if you feel like you can improve the article, go ahead and make the appropriate changes. --globe-trotter 21:41, 15 November 2010 (EST)
time to celebrate Bangkok?
I put a lot of work in it the last months. Bangkok now scores the number 1 place on "bytes per district"
Just a heads up that I sent you a couple emails that urgently need your attention! --PeterTalk 17:15, 28 November 2010 (EST)
Please kindly explain why you keep the wrong info about Internet service
Dear Globe trottter,
With all my respect,we are really thankful to you to promote and write good article about Rattanakosin Island area.
It's very helpful for all readers.However, we don't understand why you keep adding the same content about internet service at Niras Bankoc.It's totally untrue that we charge guests for internet 1 baht per min. All we have is just free wifi internet connection for all guests with thier own laptop or notebook.If they have no any device, we always recommend guests the cheap solution to use internet cafe next door .It's very cheap 20 baht for 1 hour. This also proves that it's quite impossible for us to charge guests the internet for expensive rate.
Sometimes we even give the front desk's working desktop for guests to use for free in case of emergency or even free print out document.
It would be great if you reply us your explanation for doing this
or if you or your friend are our old guest and experienced the unfair internet charge, please let us know when you or your friend stayed and which our staff who charge you the internet.We will investigate about this issue.
Thank you for your understanding.
Niras Bankoc Hostel
I just add back the information that was already present. I think we can safely remove the bit about the bad computers, but you also keep adding and modifying other information that is clearly wrong. For instance, that it is a short and easy walk to the Grand Palace -- this is totally unjustified as it is at least a 30 minutes walk and some roads don't have sidewalks (including Bamrung Muang Road). I am very familiar with this area. But I agree with you that maybe it's better to stay with the facts instead of these subjective judgements. Let me try to make some changes to this end. Maybe I'll also come over and have some coffee sometime to check out the place myself. --globe-trotter 05:20, 22 December 2010 (EST)
Dear Globe trottter,
Thank you for your understanding and re-editing.Our key request is only to remove the wrong information about internet although we are still very confused about internet charge.It's very unacceptable because we like other travellers also really hate all all hidden charge or even we always keep warning our guests about scams in Bangkok.About walking distance to the grand palace,it might be subjective thing but it's okay..no big deal.
You may find more honest reviews from our real guests on hostelworld or hostelbookers or search "niras bankoc" you may find some bloggers talked about us.
If you have a chance,please feel free to visit our hostel and coffee shop to prove the truth about our hostel.
Could you correct the information about who made wine first in Europe ?
On the page about Europe when you move down to information about wine the information is incorrect .
Republic of Georgia has 7000 years of wine history and the Republic of Moldova and Romania have 6000 years of wine history.
Experts in wine all agree that the people who first produced wine are from the region where Georgia is today and the Dacian people made wine before the people from Greece, so it was not the people from Greece that made wine first as listed in the wine information .
Thanks from a wine importer in Chisinau Moldova .
I might have been too hasty in reverting on that one. I take your point. I didn't even notice that it had been districted (for lack of coloured squares and colour coded map). As far as it being a guide, it is complete enough, just the formatting could use a polish (in my opinion). I will un-revert it anyway. - Cardboardbird 07:41, 29 December 2010 (EST)