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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Tips for flying"

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(Dedicated check-in article?)
(How to Make Life Easier for Flight Crew)
 
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== Report anyone suspicious or different to airline personnel immediately ==
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So, I removed a tip to the tune of, "Report anyone suspicious or different to airline personnel immediately." Reporting people who are ''different'' seems a little spooky. Can anyone give a better way to say this? Without sounding too McCarthyist? --[[User:Evan|Evan]] 02:12, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 
So, I removed a tip to the tune of, "Report anyone suspicious or different to airline personnel immediately." Reporting people who are ''different'' seems a little spooky. Can anyone give a better way to say this? Without sounding too McCarthyist? --[[User:Evan|Evan]] 02:12, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 
:Well, it did say "acting different" rather than just "are different". I'd immediately report anyone who was not different from myself in any way!
 
:Well, it did say "acting different" rather than just "are different". I'd immediately report anyone who was not different from myself in any way!
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== Overbooking ==
 
== Overbooking ==
 
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
:''this may mean you have the chance of obtaining compensation if you volunteer to be bumped, or this may mean your day is made hell as the airline refuse to board you, despite having a prepaid and confirmed flight ticket''
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Could anyone re-state this more clearly? I'm not sure I understand the complex question well enough for simplyfing it myself.
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In my experience, there may be choice on what route your flight will be changed to, but it is really rare case when traveller may decide to not fly at all, even for some compensantion. Another point I'd like to add is that, for example, Austrian Airlines offers 600EUR compensation IN ADDITION to alternative way to flight, not INSTEAD of it. I believe it would be smart to collect such experiences, as such compensation policies are internal to specific companies and are never published officially. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 06:18, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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: Those €600 is according to the european rules for delays > 4hours. --[[User:Elgaard|elgaard]] 06:35, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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: I added a short note of EU rules here and a longer on [[Europe]] --[[User:Elgaard|elgaard]] 07:11, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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::Thanks for sharing info. I left a question in the talk page there, to make your paragraph there even more clear.
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::As for my initial request here, could you help to explain (or simplify) the piece quoted above? Thanks.
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::--[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 08:24, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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:::I do not think it can be simplified as it depends a lot on the airline and what part of the world it is. I.e. Austrian airlines is part of Star Alliance and can get you another flight to most destinations with a short delay. But many discount airlines only have one flight a day and will probably not give you a ticket to another airline. --[[User:Elgaard|elgaard]] 08:51, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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::::I tried to re-state the original paragraph more explicitly, with simpler words. Let me know if I changed the meaning somewhere. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 12:13, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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:::::" should ask passengers for volunteers who decide not to flight in exchange for benefits" is unclear. What does "should" mean. Is there some regulation and if so we should have a link to it. Also I do not think it is a very european thing. I have seen it in the US and Canada but never in Europe. --[[User:Elgaard|elgaard]] 15:02, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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::::::I don't have official info on such regulations beyond Europe, which you cited on the [[Europe#Passengers Rights]] page. Do you suggest to add US and Canada to the list?
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::::::Would the following re-phrasing be closer to truth? " ''may'' ask passengers for volunteers..." --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 16:20, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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:::::::I think so, and drop the Europe part. --[[User:Elgaard|elgaard]] 16:45, 17 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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::::::::Done; check it out. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 02:57, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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== boarding time ==
 
== boarding time ==
 
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
Can someone clarify what 'Boarding time' means when printed on boarding ticket? Is it 'deadline for boarding' or 'boarding starts at'? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 14:06, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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: Boarding starts at, and even then it's usually after the printed time.  The gate closes (boarding stops) usually only 10-15 minutes before departure. [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 22:32, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)
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== Great article ==
 
== Great article ==
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== Extended Delay vs Cancelled Flight ==
 
== Extended Delay vs Cancelled Flight ==
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
  
We need a clarification in this article on what is considered an Extended/Long Delay (as used in [[Europe#Refund for delayed flight|Refund for delayed flight]] or[http://ec.europa.eu/transport/air_portal/passenger_rights/doc/2005_01_19_apr_poster_en.pdf Official Passenger Rights]) vs [[Tips for flying#Flight cancellation|Flight Cancellation]]. For example, when you have a 24-hour delay due to broken aircraft, which is promised to get repaired and then the flight by that aircraft will be provided (and any other flights by that time declared to be fully booked), is it a long delay or rather a cancelled flight? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 04:47, 6 November 2006 (EST)
 
  
 
== OK for dedicated PassengerRights page? ==
 
== OK for dedicated PassengerRights page? ==
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
  
It looks more convenient to have all the Passenger Rights-related information in a separate page: Overbooking, Flight Cancellation, Long Delays. The main reason for separation is that passenger rights info is needed when you least expect it, unlike the rest of Tips for flying that are read once, in advance and is hardly used during your flights. I would also move there the PassengerRights section from [[Europe#By plane]] to have all the related information in one place. Anyone would object on such a separation? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 06:59, 6 November 2006 (EST)
 
 
: I would object.  I think it's fine on this page, and the pointer in Europe should also stay where it is. [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 07:21, 6 November 2006 (EST)
 
 
::Jpatokal, could you please provide your arguments more specifically? I gave mine, and can think of more. Let me show on a demo page how it may look like... --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 11:44, 7 November 2006 (EST)
 
 
:::There are only 3-4 paragraphs of information, I don't think it needs a standalone article.  If you place it behind another link, even fewer people will find it. [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 11:57, 7 November 2006 (EST)
 
  
 
== Delayed flight affected working day ==
 
== Delayed flight affected working day ==
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
  
I heard that according to some EU regulations, a delay in flight that overlapped working day for a passenger are subject to certain compensation. Does anyone know any official links to information like this? Any success stories known when a particular sum was compensated for a reason like this? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 13:09, 7 November 2006 (EST)
 
  
 
== luggage can be stolen by airport personnel ==
 
== luggage can be stolen by airport personnel ==
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:::::I've never encountered any airline that doesn't allow to use your own locks (or to use build-in locks many cases have out of the box). Is this the case for flights within US/for US careers?--[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 13:09, 28 November 2006 (EST)
 
:::::I've never encountered any airline that doesn't allow to use your own locks (or to use build-in locks many cases have out of the box). Is this the case for flights within US/for US careers?--[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 13:09, 28 November 2006 (EST)
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::::::Yeah, you need TSA approved locks, otherwise they'll just cut off the lock if they need to inspect your luggage. [[User:EricDerKonig]][[User:206.154.229.139|206.154.229.139]] 12:50, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
  
 
== Direct/nonstop flights ==
 
== Direct/nonstop flights ==
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What they're saying is that they haven't hired as many flight attendants per passenger (compared to more expensive airlines), and the only way this will work out - and they'll be able to continue doing it this way - is if passengers put in a little effort to make the job easier for those attendants.  Of course it's also courteous to people who have an often-demanding job, and who don't have any say in how many people the airline hires anyway. - [[User:TVerBeek|Todd VerBeek]] 21:19, 22 December 2006 (EST)
 
What they're saying is that they haven't hired as many flight attendants per passenger (compared to more expensive airlines), and the only way this will work out - and they'll be able to continue doing it this way - is if passengers put in a little effort to make the job easier for those attendants.  Of course it's also courteous to people who have an often-demanding job, and who don't have any say in how many people the airline hires anyway. - [[User:TVerBeek|Todd VerBeek]] 21:19, 22 December 2006 (EST)
  
== Dedicated check-in article? ==
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== First-time travellers vis-a-vis veteran travellers ==
  
 
Is it all right if I create a separate/dedicated article walking through the common check-in methods, along with their pros, cons and when it is best to use them? --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 01:47, 23 December 2006 (EST)
 
Is it all right if I create a separate/dedicated article walking through the common check-in methods, along with their pros, cons and when it is best to use them? --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 01:47, 23 December 2006 (EST)
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: No, it's not alright.  I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the article is sounding more and more like "Flying for total idiots" and half the stuff you've added has got to go.  Or how about a "Flying for the first time" article, if you ''really'' want to parrot all the cabin crew announcements or explain what a seatbelt or boarding pass is? [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 02:31, 23 December 2006 (EST)
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:: All right then, half of them should be gone soon.  I apologise for making the article sound like "Flying 101."  The next time I add, I will make sure they are tips or techniques to make the whole flight experience easier rather than a mere lecture about airline or airport SOPs. --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 11:46, 23 December 2006 (EST)
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:::I'd really suggest making two articles: one for first-time flyers, the other for 'experienced' flyers looking for ways to optimize their flights.  Right now it's a poor combination of trivia that would intimidate first-timers (PNRs, nonendorsability etc) and "obvious" stuff that would make frequent flyers roll their eyes. [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 03:31, 24 December 2006 (EST)
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::::That's a good point, for instance, I don't like to hear much about what to expect in security since I have been travelling on airlines continuously for the past 9 out of 11 years but I believe that it is worth hearing about the expedited security options.  My problem is which of the other tips are for veteran travellers and which ones are more likely to appeal to first-time travellers?  Sometimes, the same tips can appeal to both.  And who was this article intended for in the first place, first timers or veteran travellers?  --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 22:13, 24 December 2006 (EST)
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== How to Make Life Easier for Flight Crew ==
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I am wondering if there any interest in creating a section about how we passengers can make life easier for the board crew?
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For example, I'd welcome recommendations on how to make easier for stewards to welcome every passenger upon boarding, or to say goodbye to every one leaving the plane at the destination airport.
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Personally, I can share the only tip for now--to encourage and support a crew member who faced mass complaints on passengers, in cases like long delay.
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Any interest from the community in developing a section like this? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 15:51, 20 January 2007 (EST)
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: Good point Denis.  Developed sub-para ("Helping the cabin crew" in "Fundamentals of flying"...long overdue, but there. [[User:Hennejohn|Hennejohn]] 15:51, 15 April 2012 (EDT)
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I once included a tip which involved giving rubbish to them when they walk down the aisle as it can be a way of keeping fares low according to others.  Maybe we should include a section on what one can do to make these fares lower and write down making life easier for them as one way.  --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 01:28, 30 January 2007 (EST)
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== booking online vs. via physically going to a ticket office ==
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When would be the best time to book online and best time to book by physically going to a ticket office?  What are the pros and cons of each?  While I find online booking fascinating, the problem with it is that you have to pay immediately unlike when going to a ticket office where you are more likely allowed to hold it for a couple of days before payment is needed.  Online booking can be frustrating if one requires a visa for his destination and there is no guarantee of it being granted.  I suggest we make a subsection on that under planning your trip.  --[[User:Jr traveller|Jr traveller]] 05:08, 30 January 2007 (EST)
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== Denied Boarding: Flight Cancellation or Overbooking? ==
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''(moved to [[Talk:Fundamentals of flying]])''
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== travel arrangers show statistics on delays ==
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''> Many of the on-line travel arrangers show statistics on how often a given flight arrives on time''
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Can we add some examples of such arrangers and the countries they have operations? I never seen such information with Russian online agents, and I don't remember seeing it at European arrangers (although I didn't have too many of them). --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 09:14, 24 February 2007 (EST)
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== Airline websites ==
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There are thousands and thousands of airports out there.  Are we going to list all or most of their websites in this article?  Why don't we list the websites of the most traveled to/from airports instead?
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: We shouldn't list any bloody airport sites here, that's why we have destination guides!  This once beautiful article has already degenerated into a steaming pile of turd, someday when I win free time in the lottery I'll carry out my threat to split it into "Flying for idiots" and "Flying for professionals". [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 13:06, 6 March 2007 (EST)
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:: I don't think it's necessary to list them at all!
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== Split to [[Fundamentals of flying]] ==
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I've pulled the mass of Flying 101 material from this article and placed it in [[Fundamentals of flying]].  As Jpatokal has pointed out, this article had become a mishmash of tips for fairly experienced flyers, and a primer on how commercial air travel works, suitable for neither audience.  I generally moved entire sections based on which they seemed most suitable for, and I may have moved/left information in the "wrong" article in the process; please feel free to make appropriate adjustments. - [[User:TVerBeek|Todd VerBeek]] 11:21, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
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:What about moving back "special meals requested by ordinary people" and "Overbooking-Delayed flight-Flight Cancellation" passenger rights back into [[Tips for flying]]? Former is definitely not about 101, and the latter is not obvious and easy to remember even for experienced fliers, in my experience. Opinions? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 17:41, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
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::I've moved the special-meals tip back here.  Much of the airline-screw-overs sections is just "this is how it works" info, which seems to me to fit better in Fundamentals, and I didn't see an easy way to split for-exprienced-flyers content out of it.  But like I said, this split was a hack job, so if anyone wants to fine-tune it, please do. - [[User:TVerBeek|Todd VerBeek]] 12:26, 25 March 2007 (EDT)
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== Name change? ==
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Given the split of [[Fundamentals of flying]] I wonder if we should consider a name change to make this one sound less like a grab bag of random thoughts editors might have on flying. "Tips for easier flying"? "Tips for frequent flyers"? [[User:Hypatia|Hypatia]] 19:18, 22 June 2007 (EDT)
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:"Smarter flying"??? [[User:Hypatia|Hypatia]] 11:22, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
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::Support. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 16:41, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
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== overview of aircraft size and comfort ==
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What if we have a small comparison table of most popular aircraft size and comfort level? Just to give a general idea of what all that Boeing 767/737/ Airbus A318 etc mean and look like? Where should we stick it, if at all--here or to the Fundamentals of Flying? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 05:49, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
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: I'm not sure that's very meaningful.  Just recently, I flew a Turkish Airways B737-500 from Istanbul to Dublin and another B737-500 back.  The plane to DUB had great seat pitch and modern in-flight entertainment; on the plane back, I was chewing on my knees and watching static.  [[User:Jpatokal|Jpatokal]] 13:42, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
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::However, basic things remain generally the same between airlines/flights: number of seats in a row; typical capacity (number of passengers), number of floors (if multiple-floor aircrafts ever exists). Even seat pitch can vary in some limits, and in most cases remain the same (at least in default setting as defined on aircraft producers web sites). Of course entertainment and meals vary--but we can start with the characteristics that are more or less the same between airlines/flights. --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 04:36, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
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:::So are there any serious objections? --[[User:DenisYurkin|DenisYurkin]] 15:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
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:::: No, I think it's a great idea [[User:Sertmann|Sertmann]] 17:06, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
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== Luggage Delivery Services ==
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There are two mentions of using luggage delivery services as opposed to checking in baggage, to save stress.  Unless people are moving lots of luggage overseas, it surely unusual to pay the high fees charged to airfreight stuff, to avoid the stress of checking in a bag at the airport.  So much so, that it seems a bit like a concealed tout for luggage services, rather than a realistic option to simplify the average travel experience.  I've never used these services, or known anybody to use them just to ease stress - possibly to carry excess baggage.  I'm tempted to remove the references to them here --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 23:37, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
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: Very last sentence of section now advises we consider business or first-class tickets if one needs a larger baggage allowance.  At least for international flights, believe the economics would be quite bad.  [[User:Hennejohn|Hennejohn]] 15:48, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

Latest revision as of 19:55, 15 April 2012

Contents

Report anyone suspicious or different to airline personnel immediately[edit]

So, I removed a tip to the tune of, "Report anyone suspicious or different to airline personnel immediately." Reporting people who are different seems a little spooky. Can anyone give a better way to say this? Without sounding too McCarthyist? --Evan 02:12, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Well, it did say "acting different" rather than just "are different". I'd immediately report anyone who was not different from myself in any way!
Seriously, I'd just as soon leave it out (and the other safety tips are questionable as well). Tips should be things that you can do to improve your own experience and prevent likely problems. Looking out for terrorists will not do either of those to any degree. -- Paul Richter 12:27, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Avoid booking flight segments close together[edit]

I have some problems with this tip. It is predicated on the notion that you have to clear security between flights, which is nonsense on domestic flights at most airports, and ignores the fact that airports differ widely in their ease of getting around. Text revision follows. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 10:26, 24 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Overbooking[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)

boarding time[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)

Great article[edit]

I haven't been over here in a while, and this has turned into a exemplar "Tips for..." article. The random bullet points layout of many of them is depressing, this is a breath of fresh air. Hypatia 23:27, 24 July 2006 (EDT)

Videos on exercises at your seat[edit]

> Most airlines will now periodically show video programs you can follow to get some exercise in your seat

I've never seen such videos on any of european carriers--was it meant primarily US carriers? Changed to SOME instead of MOST in a meanwhile. --DenisYurkin 04:26, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Extended Delay vs Cancelled Flight[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)


OK for dedicated PassengerRights page?[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)


Delayed flight affected working day[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)


luggage can be stolen by airport personnel[edit]

> In some airports, security of checked luggage is also an issue, as contents may be stolen by airport personnel while the baggage is in transit to and from your plane.

In early-90s Russia this was also the case, especially when many people bought PCs and VCRs in Moscow and they brought it themselves to their regions by air. Typical solution for that in Russia was to bribe personnel who normally handles luggage after it's checkied in.

Does it make sense to put a recommendation like this? BTW, Justfred, in what countries do you think it still happens? --DenisYurkin 06:09, 28 November 2006 (EST)

It's a good idea anywhere in the world not to check in valuables. Not only is there the risk of theft, but things like laptops, cameras and bottles break easily if checked-in. Jpatokal 06:23, 28 November 2006 (EST)
It's happened to me, in the St. Louis Airport, about 4 years ago (don't recall pre- or post- 911). CD player, bunch of CDs, GPS, cables - I zip-tie my bag pockets and it had been opened and removed between Delta checkin in St. Louis and rolling down the bag rack in San Diego. Airlines don't care (boilerplate letter, sorry for your loss, we take no responsibility, take it up with your homeowner's insurance - Thanks, Delta!)--justfred 11:21, 28 November 2006 (EST)
I suggest to recommend to lock all luggage for check-in. This should help considerably--although there's no guarantees here, as in anything else. --DenisYurkin 11:38, 28 November 2006 (EST)
Actually, you're not allowed to lock it, except with special locks that airport personnel have keys to, or are allowed to cut off.--justfred 12:33, 28 November 2006 (EST)
I've never encountered any airline that doesn't allow to use your own locks (or to use build-in locks many cases have out of the box). Is this the case for flights within US/for US careers?--DenisYurkin 13:09, 28 November 2006 (EST)
Yeah, you need TSA approved locks, otherwise they'll just cut off the lock if they need to inspect your luggage. User:EricDerKonig206.154.229.139 12:50, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Direct/nonstop flights[edit]

Just a couple of things about direct/nonstop flights. First, they are not always more expensive than those with mere stopovers. In fact, when I recently checked the price of tickets for a certain airline, those where one had to change planes/make a stopover turn out to be more expensive. Second, direct flights in some cases may not use the same aircraft on all legs. For instance, when I was travelling back to Manila from LA in 1999, I had to stopover via Osaka and we were on a certain flight number for Northwest. From LA to Osaka, we used a 747-200 while from Osaka to Manila, a 747-400 was utilised, all carrying the same flight number. Other things that can change in each leg of a direct flight is the crew who will be accompanying passengers on succeeding legs. Depending on the airline and airport, passengers continuing on a direct flight will have to a) stay on the aircraft, b) wait in the transit area to be reboarded onto that same aircraft, c) choose either a or b or d) change planes.

--58.69.5.94 02:26, 20 December 2006 (EST)

a, b, c are all true, but having to change planes on a direct flight is pretty darn unusual and I don't think you'll find any cases of this in a published schedule. (Look at it from the airline's point of view: why would they want to station a plane at the halfway point on a long route, never returning to home base?) Yet another reason to avoid Northwest like the plague they are... Jpatokal 03:49, 20 December 2006 (EST)

E-ticket vs. the paper ticket[edit]

Another suggestion I have is to try to put a section dedicated to e-tickets and comparing and contrasting them with paper tickets, giving their respective pros and cons.

Plunge forward! Jpatokal 04:04, 20 December 2006 (EST)

When are paper tickets scheduled to be phased-out? --Jr traveller 21:08, 22 December 2006 (EST)

What to carry on[edit]

One of the tips in the said section says "Take a large bottle of water with you. Airliner cabins are very dry and drinking plenty of water helps to avoid dehydration." Aren't liquids, including bottled water brought in by passengers banned in some places unless purchased at stalls beyond security checkpoints? Besides, the "During the flight" section tells us that water is available upon request from the flight attendants. --210.5.110.56 10:44, 21 December 2006 (EST)

Yes, although that particular bit of "security theater" is not worldwide, and is hopefully temporary. Is it worth modifying the article? How about "If airline security allows it, take...". Of course that disclaimer could be placed upon the whole article - everything is subject to the whim of airline security.--justfred 11:56, 21 December 2006 (EST)

As for the banned liquids, do you know the specific limits in the US and the UK in terms of quantity and packaging (i.e. how many quarts should each liquid be and where should they fit-in)? --Jr traveller 11:59, 22 December 2006 (EST)

For the US, it's "1 quart-size, clear plastic, zip-top bag holding 3 ounces or smaller containers of liquids or gels. Each traveler is limited to 1 clear plastic bag of liquids" according to the TSA. See [1] for more. -- Jonboy 16:26, 22 December 2006 (EST)

Keeping fares low[edit]

Some airlines, particularly low budget carriers say to passengers that to keep prices low, they should pick-up rubbish, give them to the flight attendant as well as pick up pillows and blankets and keeping them on the seat? I would like to believe that is truth to this but is this really true? If so, what other moves do airlines suggest and why would these keep fares low? I would like to include a section like this in the article, thanks. --58.69.69.113 09:49, 22 December 2006 (EST)

What they're saying is that they haven't hired as many flight attendants per passenger (compared to more expensive airlines), and the only way this will work out - and they'll be able to continue doing it this way - is if passengers put in a little effort to make the job easier for those attendants. Of course it's also courteous to people who have an often-demanding job, and who don't have any say in how many people the airline hires anyway. - Todd VerBeek 21:19, 22 December 2006 (EST)

First-time travellers vis-a-vis veteran travellers[edit]

Is it all right if I create a separate/dedicated article walking through the common check-in methods, along with their pros, cons and when it is best to use them? --Jr traveller 01:47, 23 December 2006 (EST)

No, it's not alright. I appreciate your enthusiasm, but the article is sounding more and more like "Flying for total idiots" and half the stuff you've added has got to go. Or how about a "Flying for the first time" article, if you really want to parrot all the cabin crew announcements or explain what a seatbelt or boarding pass is? Jpatokal 02:31, 23 December 2006 (EST)
All right then, half of them should be gone soon. I apologise for making the article sound like "Flying 101." The next time I add, I will make sure they are tips or techniques to make the whole flight experience easier rather than a mere lecture about airline or airport SOPs. --Jr traveller 11:46, 23 December 2006 (EST)
I'd really suggest making two articles: one for first-time flyers, the other for 'experienced' flyers looking for ways to optimize their flights. Right now it's a poor combination of trivia that would intimidate first-timers (PNRs, nonendorsability etc) and "obvious" stuff that would make frequent flyers roll their eyes. Jpatokal 03:31, 24 December 2006 (EST)
That's a good point, for instance, I don't like to hear much about what to expect in security since I have been travelling on airlines continuously for the past 9 out of 11 years but I believe that it is worth hearing about the expedited security options. My problem is which of the other tips are for veteran travellers and which ones are more likely to appeal to first-time travellers? Sometimes, the same tips can appeal to both. And who was this article intended for in the first place, first timers or veteran travellers? --Jr traveller 22:13, 24 December 2006 (EST)

How to Make Life Easier for Flight Crew[edit]

I am wondering if there any interest in creating a section about how we passengers can make life easier for the board crew?

For example, I'd welcome recommendations on how to make easier for stewards to welcome every passenger upon boarding, or to say goodbye to every one leaving the plane at the destination airport.

Personally, I can share the only tip for now--to encourage and support a crew member who faced mass complaints on passengers, in cases like long delay.

Any interest from the community in developing a section like this? --DenisYurkin 15:51, 20 January 2007 (EST)

Good point Denis. Developed sub-para ("Helping the cabin crew" in "Fundamentals of flying"...long overdue, but there. Hennejohn 15:51, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

I once included a tip which involved giving rubbish to them when they walk down the aisle as it can be a way of keeping fares low according to others. Maybe we should include a section on what one can do to make these fares lower and write down making life easier for them as one way. --Jr traveller 01:28, 30 January 2007 (EST)

booking online vs. via physically going to a ticket office[edit]

When would be the best time to book online and best time to book by physically going to a ticket office? What are the pros and cons of each? While I find online booking fascinating, the problem with it is that you have to pay immediately unlike when going to a ticket office where you are more likely allowed to hold it for a couple of days before payment is needed. Online booking can be frustrating if one requires a visa for his destination and there is no guarantee of it being granted. I suggest we make a subsection on that under planning your trip. --Jr traveller 05:08, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Denied Boarding: Flight Cancellation or Overbooking?[edit]

(moved to Talk:Fundamentals of flying)


travel arrangers show statistics on delays[edit]

> Many of the on-line travel arrangers show statistics on how often a given flight arrives on time

Can we add some examples of such arrangers and the countries they have operations? I never seen such information with Russian online agents, and I don't remember seeing it at European arrangers (although I didn't have too many of them). --DenisYurkin 09:14, 24 February 2007 (EST)

Airline websites[edit]

There are thousands and thousands of airports out there. Are we going to list all or most of their websites in this article? Why don't we list the websites of the most traveled to/from airports instead?

We shouldn't list any bloody airport sites here, that's why we have destination guides! This once beautiful article has already degenerated into a steaming pile of turd, someday when I win free time in the lottery I'll carry out my threat to split it into "Flying for idiots" and "Flying for professionals". Jpatokal 13:06, 6 March 2007 (EST)
I don't think it's necessary to list them at all!

Split to Fundamentals of flying[edit]

I've pulled the mass of Flying 101 material from this article and placed it in Fundamentals of flying. As Jpatokal has pointed out, this article had become a mishmash of tips for fairly experienced flyers, and a primer on how commercial air travel works, suitable for neither audience. I generally moved entire sections based on which they seemed most suitable for, and I may have moved/left information in the "wrong" article in the process; please feel free to make appropriate adjustments. - Todd VerBeek 11:21, 24 March 2007 (EDT)

What about moving back "special meals requested by ordinary people" and "Overbooking-Delayed flight-Flight Cancellation" passenger rights back into Tips for flying? Former is definitely not about 101, and the latter is not obvious and easy to remember even for experienced fliers, in my experience. Opinions? --DenisYurkin 17:41, 24 March 2007 (EDT)
I've moved the special-meals tip back here. Much of the airline-screw-overs sections is just "this is how it works" info, which seems to me to fit better in Fundamentals, and I didn't see an easy way to split for-exprienced-flyers content out of it. But like I said, this split was a hack job, so if anyone wants to fine-tune it, please do. - Todd VerBeek 12:26, 25 March 2007 (EDT)

Name change?[edit]

Given the split of Fundamentals of flying I wonder if we should consider a name change to make this one sound less like a grab bag of random thoughts editors might have on flying. "Tips for easier flying"? "Tips for frequent flyers"? Hypatia 19:18, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

"Smarter flying"??? Hypatia 11:22, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
Support. --DenisYurkin 16:41, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

overview of aircraft size and comfort[edit]

What if we have a small comparison table of most popular aircraft size and comfort level? Just to give a general idea of what all that Boeing 767/737/ Airbus A318 etc mean and look like? Where should we stick it, if at all--here or to the Fundamentals of Flying? --DenisYurkin 05:49, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

I'm not sure that's very meaningful. Just recently, I flew a Turkish Airways B737-500 from Istanbul to Dublin and another B737-500 back. The plane to DUB had great seat pitch and modern in-flight entertainment; on the plane back, I was chewing on my knees and watching static. Jpatokal 13:42, 28 September 2008 (EDT)
However, basic things remain generally the same between airlines/flights: number of seats in a row; typical capacity (number of passengers), number of floors (if multiple-floor aircrafts ever exists). Even seat pitch can vary in some limits, and in most cases remain the same (at least in default setting as defined on aircraft producers web sites). Of course entertainment and meals vary--but we can start with the characteristics that are more or less the same between airlines/flights. --DenisYurkin 04:36, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
So are there any serious objections? --DenisYurkin 15:09, 3 October 2008 (EDT)
No, I think it's a great idea Sertmann 17:06, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

Luggage Delivery Services[edit]

There are two mentions of using luggage delivery services as opposed to checking in baggage, to save stress. Unless people are moving lots of luggage overseas, it surely unusual to pay the high fees charged to airfreight stuff, to avoid the stress of checking in a bag at the airport. So much so, that it seems a bit like a concealed tout for luggage services, rather than a realistic option to simplify the average travel experience. I've never used these services, or known anybody to use them just to ease stress - possibly to carry excess baggage. I'm tempted to remove the references to them here --Inas 23:37, 14 October 2008 (EDT)

Very last sentence of section now advises we consider business or first-class tickets if one needs a larger baggage allowance. At least for international flights, believe the economics would be quite bad. Hennejohn 15:48, 15 April 2012 (EDT)

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