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Talk:Stockholm

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Revision as of 11:43, 23 July 2012 by Blist (Talk | contribs)

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Districts?

Did someone get half way through splitting this article up into districts? There are a bunch of created district articles with no info in. I think the article is getting a bit long and could do with splitting up a bit. There is a list of 17 districts buried in the article but not visible yet, but do we really need them all? I think three or four different districts might be a better proposition...

map of 17 proposed districts

The 17 suggested districts are:

-- Tim (writeme!) 13:16, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

These are administrative districts, and the list is not up to date since some districts have been merged. Many of them are of little interest for tourists. /Blist 20:53, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
Administrative districts aren't of much use to tourists, so travel-related districts would be preferred. (Wikitravel:The traveller comes first). Can you help devise a set of districts (maybe half a dozen) that make sense? - Todd VerBeek 21:31, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
I've tried to restructure the district section into four major zones relevant to visitors and resembling most Stockholmers "mental map" of the city, leaving administrative borough and municipality borders aside. While these four districts could be used for splitting up the article, I personally don't think the pros outweigh the cons. The Stockholm city center is small. All the three inner-city districts borders the others,and it's not very convenient to have attractions a few minutes apart in different articles. It would hurt overview and make extensive cross-referencing necessary. Modern browsers can handle long articles. Splitting articles should be reserved for "huge cities" like New York, and Stockholm simply isn't one of them. Alarm 16:14, 9 December 2007 (EST)
So, any objection to all the district names being un-wiki-linked, so that unwanted articles are less likely to be created (eg Södermalm)? ~ 203.144.143.4 07:24, 26 January 2008 (EST)
Also, what to do about Stockholm/Norrmalm? ~ 203.144.143.4 07:33, 26 January 2008 (EST)
No, no objections. The best way to go is probably to unlink district names and turn existing district articles (all rudimentary) into redirects to Stockholm. Alarm 18:04, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Stockholm was slushed as DoTM, due to the article not being districified per Slush Pile/Stockholm - --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 14:01, 25 May 2009 (EDT)

The Stockholm School of Economics?

When looking at the See section, the Stockholm School of Economics feels like a somewhat odd inclusion. All the other listings have a more or less obvious tourist appeal. While it might be interesting to include some places where tourists wouldn't normally go, this place isn't the first on my list of potential listings in that category. I'm going to be bold and cut it from the article for now. If someone wants to include it, I'd be grateful for suggestions on what to call the subheader it should be placed under.

The full text of the listing is below. /Alarm 16:00, 20 January 2008 (EST)

  • The Stockholm School of Economics. A time honored institution that has seen some of the most famous people in Sweden come and go in its halls. The school is located in an imposing building on Sveavägen close to the Public Library. Hang around for a while and see the future rulers of the country frolick in their sunday bests. The cafe located downstairs has got some excellent coffee as well.

Do: WalkingTours

It seems to me the description of the "Ice Age to IKEA" walking tour is rather lacking. The tour is described simply as a "performance tour." First, this is unclear. I imagined for a moment people in a tour group walking fast and swinging their arms. Besides this being a fairly ludicrous (albeit humorous) image, I remembered I had read about this tour, and had gathered that it is led by tour guides in Viking costumes, is perhaps generally Viking-themed, and is intended to be "comedic," as stated on the company's website. It seems to me the writer could have given a more detailed description while remaining objective. I plan to visit Stockholm in the near future, so if no one has elaborated on that section by the time I get back, I plan to add more detail to that part. I don't feel good editing that section at this time, not having personally experienced the tour.

OK, I've been to Stockholm now, and my husband and I failed to take the tour. We ate lunch at a cafe on Stortorget with the intention of grabbing the tour after lunch. As we were settling our bill, I noticed that a young woman who appeared to be dressed in street clothes was standing near the Gallivant Productions Viking tour sign, which was in front of the Nobel Museum. I figured she was another tourist waiting for the tour guide to turn up. My husband went to use the restaurant's restroom before we walked over there to wait. At about 2 minutes till time for the Viking tour to start, the young woman near the sign walked away across the square. I then saw a cheap-looking brown cloak flow out behind her as she walked, and realized this must have been the Gallivant Productions "Viking" tour guide. Therefore we missed the tour. I must say that based on what we saw on their website and their blog, my husband and I were expecting the guide to be wearing a bit more costuming than a brown cloak of a quality that one might find at a cheap costume shop. At least a horned helmet would have made the tour guide more recognizable as such. Based on the lack of costuming effort on the guide's part, and the fact that she left a couple of minutes early, we concluded that the company, or at the very least that particular guide, was not trying very hard at this point in time. Granted, since no one else appeared to be waiting for the tour, she might have ended up deciding it wasn't worthwhile to do the tour for just two people even if my husband had managed to catch her before she left, but we were definitely underwhelmed by the apparent lack of effort we saw. Maybe someone else will have better luck with it.

Plunge forward! Jpatokal 01:57, 16 July 2009 (EDT)

Districts again

After reading the article and the talk (and the talk on DotM), I think we could really stand to districtify Stockholm, with the proviso that it's easy to walk from one district to the next.

I like the districts we have now, but they need their own articles. Foretopsail 16:10, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

StockholmCityDraft.png
It is about time we start districtifying Stockholm. Based on what we have in the article now, we could have the following central districts as illustrated on the map:
* Norrmalm
* Östermalm (including Djurgården)
* Kungsholmen (including Essingen)
* Gamla Stan
* Södermalm
I am concerned if this is too many central districts. Could we merge some of them?, --ClausHansen 04:48, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
StockholmDraft.png
And for the suburbs, I suggest the following as shown on the map:
* Västerort
* Söderort
* Northern Suburbs (including Solna, Sunbyberg, Danderyd, Sollentuna)
* Western Islands (including Ekerö)
* Southern Suburbs (including Huddinge, Haninge, Tyresö, Södertälje)
* Eastern Suburbs (including Vaxholm, Lidingö, Nacka, Värmdö)
Also here, this could be too many districts. They will have very limited content to start with. Maybe Västerort and Norther Suburbs should be merged as well as Söderort and Southern Suburbs. One other question is whether some of the surrounding towns like Södertälje, Huddinge, Danderyd should be part of Stockholm or should be considered separate cities
Comments are most welcome, --ClausHansen 07:54, 14 September 2010 (EDT)
Are there really no-one who has an opinion on this? If not, I will start districtifying according to the suggestion above (maybe with a bit fewer suburban districts), --ClausHansen 03:50, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

The Eastern and the Western Suburbs are often seen as parts of southern Stockholm. I dont think that västerort and the norhern suburbs should be merged as västerort is a part of Stockholm city while the northern Suburbs are independent cities with a different enviroment. Söderort and Västerort are (besides from the central area) the most important areas and should have their own articles. --83.191.245.141 11:24, 17 September 2010 (EDT)

Thank you for the input. Any suggestions on what to call a district combining western, eastern and southern suburbs?, --ClausHansen 17:00, 17 September 2010 (EDT)

In my opinion Stockholm could be districtified as your uppermost picture, plus one article combining all the suburbs called e.g. just "Suburban Stockholm". That one could also of course contain information concerning metropolitan municipalities like Sundbyberg, Solna etc.. If someone writes more information on areas in Greater Stockholm further away like Södertälje, there could be separate North, West, and South articles like it has been done in London. As for now there is definitely not enough information concerning each one of the suburbs to justify own articles for them - we'll end up with a stub collection like Prague or Warsaw. Ypsilon 09:17, 25 January 2011 (EST)

I agree w/ the previous -- a tourist will care mainly about 1. Gamla Stan, 2. Södermalm, 3. Djurgården/Skeppsholmen/Östermalm/Norrmalm and 4. Kungsholmen. The outlying suburbs should be separate. I'd also be tempted to lump Djurgården/Skeppsholmen in with Gamla Stan since they fit thematically a little better with the touristy stuff, and leave Östermalm/Norrmalm as a standalone entry for shopping. --Roya 11:14, 31 January 2011 (EST)

Based on the above, I will start districtifying as follows:
* Norrmalm
* Östermalm (including Djurgården)
* Kungsholmen (including Essingen)
* Gamla Stan
* Södermalm
* Northern and Western Suburbs (which eventually can be split in Västerort, Western Islands and Northern Suburbs, when we have enough content)
* Southern and Eastern Suburbs (which eventually can be split in Söderort, Southern Suburbs and Eastern Suburbs, when we have enough content)

--ClausHansen 11:57, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

Stockholm archipelago deserves an article in its own right. That would leave Lidingö and Nacka as the only "eastern" suburbs. Maybe Lidingö should have its own article? Discussion below. /Blist 16:48, 20 July 2012 (EDT)

Stay Safe Section

There is too much highly subjective information in the Stay Safe section. It appears that there are some too intent on pushing their anti-immigrant stance with relation to the suburbs of Stockholm coupled with some of the rhetoric about crime that is totally at odds with crime statistics.

Whilst Sweden (according to statistics published by Eurostat) has shown an increase in crime levels, the levels of violent crime are below the average for Western Europe (amongst the lowest for Europe) coupled with one of the lowest murder rates of 1.05 in Western Europe. If the statistics were to be believed, one would be far more likely to be attacked in London (~4x the risk of violent crime to Stockholm according to Eurostat) yet previously another editor had said that Stockholm had a similar rate of crime to London or New York, which is completely erroneous.

It is important to put these warnings into context rather than subjecting prospective visitors to hyperbole and or political rhetoric. This is not what Wikitravel was intended for. Telling prospective visitors to not wear jewellery in public is downright ridiculous and completely over the top as no similar European cities issue such warnings. If one were to believe the previous warnings, one would be taking less care in Johannesburg (based on their stay safe section) compared to Stockholm, and given the respective crime rates I find this a rather difficult pill to swallow.

I believe, in closing, that the most supportive information comes from observing The Mercer Livability Study which has rated Stockholm as the 6th safest city in the world with regards to personal safety. If this is not a good enough guide to put this section into a global perspective then I fear for the wikipedia editors.

Information for this post was sourced from:

Eurostat: http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page/portal/eurostat/home/

Mercer livability: http://www.expatinfodesk.com/news/2011/11/30/mercer-names-the-safest-places-in-the-world-in-which-to-live/

Globentrekker 16:25, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

Good riddance. /Blist 08:18, 20 July 2012 (EDT)

Image cleanup

This article is currently heavy with many images of so-so quality: overexposed, underexposed, or shot from very uninspiring angles. Many of them are also quite similar, going against the "no more images than necessary" policy. Also, the layout is messed up with huge white walls especially at HD resolution. Cleanup time, fellas. (I'll get to it when I get the time, if nobody does it before me). Jake73 02:29, 16 April 2012 (EDT)

I am sorry you feel that way about the images. Prior to my addition of a few of my photographs (and I admit they're not that great) there were very few images on the Stockholm page relative to the rest of Wikitravel. I haven't seen any "white walls" that you speak about on the three computers I edit from but perhaps I don't have a monitor as large as yours. I would suggest, if you feel these are sub-standard images that you contribute your own for display. I have removed my images from the article so you can commence layout clean up. Globentrekker 07:35, 16 April 2012 (EDT)
I agree with you that there's space for a few additional images in this article, but there are lots of free high quality Stockholm images on the web so those that we add should be good ones. No offence, but the day that you shot your pictures sure was a grey and depressing one that will inspire few potential visitors. The white wall layout was on a full HD monitor (1920x1080). Still, thanks for your work on this and other articles - I see that you've done a lot of good things. Jake73 10:46, 23 April 2012 (EDT)

Getting Cash

My Canadian ATM card did not work in Stockholm. I have put this information on the Stockholm page a few times, but someone keeps censoring it. I think it's quite important. Also, after ATMs rejected my credit card, I went into a bank to get a cash advance on my credit card, but the teller told me they don't do that. The last time I put this information on the page, I wrote the following text which was shorter than what I wrote previously:

There are many ATMs in the city. However, in May, 2011, this writer found that his bank card on the Plus network was rejected by four ATMs and his Visa credit card was rejected twice by ATMs displying the Plus and Visa logos before finding an ATM that accepted the Visa card. These cards have worked fine many times in other European countries.

There are many locations of a currency exchange called Forex, but they charge a whopping 45 SEK (7$) commission on top of their buy-sell spread.

Hello. I would speculate that the reason your edits are getting reverted is that, instead of saying that Canadians may have trouble finding ATMs that work for their cards, you edited the text to say "There are many ATMs for Swedish bank cards in the city." I assume that the ATMs work for other European cards, and perhaps other cards from some other foreign countries. If you want to say something, just say it clearly (though without using a first person account in the article), and without overly general insinuations. Sorry you had so much trouble on your visit! Ikan Kekek 06:15, 5 May 2012 (EDT)
My previous edits were more like you suggested. My latest edit "There are many ATMs for Swedish bank cards in the city" replaced the previous text "There are many ATMs in the city" which censored my text above and is totally misleading since my experience was that the ATMs were unusable with my usual bank card that works in other countries in Europe. I think the latest edit to the text (after mine) is overly general. As long as my description of the problem survives here, I suppose I'll be satisfied with that.
You think this edit is overly general??
"There are many ATMs in the city, but some foreign card-holders, such as a Canadian, have reported trouble in using them, even when they purport to be connected to international networks their banks are part of, so consider doing some research before you arrive."
That is quite a lot more specific than "There are many ATMs for Swedish bank cards in the city."! Ikan Kekek 06:36, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
Generally it seems that foreign ATM cards work perfectly well in Sweden if they are labelled with the correct, supported card company (IE: VISA, Mastercard, AmEx, Diners Card, Plus, Swift, Maestro, Visa Electron etc). It may also be that your bank does not allow you to use your card abroad or has restrictions on your account. Generally one needs (when one travels) to ensure that ones card is able to be used in that country. It may be that certain banks here will only accept certain card companies too. Globentrekker 15:37, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Districts: Lidingö, Norrmalm/Östermalm and Ekerö

  • As Lidingö is geographically separate from the northern and southern suburbs, containing several points of interests (Millesgården, Bosön etc) and many hotels, we should create a separate article named Stockholm/Lidingö. /Blist 08:20, 20 July 2012 (EDT)
  • The official Norrmalm/Östermalm border is Birger Jarlsgatan. As it cuts through Stureplan and Nybroplan, that division is inconvenient for a traveller. Some suggestions:
  1. Merging Stockholm/Norrmalm with Stockholm/Östermalm, creating a very long article. We could possibly introduce a Stockholm/Djurgården article, to reduce the burden.
  2. Describing Birger Jarlsgatan in Stockholm/Norrmalm.
  3. Describing Birger Jarlsgatan in Stockholm/Östermalm.

What do you think? /Blist 09:48, 20 July 2012 (EDT)

I've never been to Stockholm, so my comments come from looking at the map only, but how about joining the whole 'urban' part of Östermalm to Norrmalm and leaving more green, open part on its own. That way there is no cutting Birger Jarlsgatan area. Like this [1]. That way the districts are more less same size. Jjtk 03:07, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
  • With two World heritage sites, and covering more than 200 square kilometers, only connected to the mainland at Nockebybron, Ekerö or Stockholm/Ekerö should deserve an article on its own. What do you think? /Blist 20:34, 22 July 2012 (EDT)
Yeah, but right now Stockholm/Northern and Western Suburbs is quite empty anyway and we might end up with a bunch of stub articles, like in Warsaw. Jjtk 03:14, 23 July 2012 (EDT)
There's much to add, even if Sigtuna, Ekerö and Lidingö are excluded. Starting off right now. /Blist 07:39, 23 July 2012 (EDT)

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