Guys, should we combine Kish and Sheki as they are in the same region? Or should they be separate? Cupcakecommander 08:44, 18 June 2007 (EDT)
If they are seperate places, it's best to leave them seperate - people will fill up the empty space at some stage -- Tim (writeme!) 05:18, 4 August 2007 (EDT)
It is just that in most Sheki guides they are lumped together, and they are only 5 km apart. Cupcakecommander 01:11, 6 August 2007 (EDT)
It's true that most guides lump the two together, but then again, our guide differs from all the others in that it does not suck. I would love to see a real article just on Kish, it is enough of an attraction in my view and that will flesh out the region better than just cramming content into the Sheki guide. We can make it clear in the "understand" and "get out" sections of both articles that they are within 5km of each other and that both warrant a visit. --PeterTalk 03:00, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
Shouldn't the Sheki page mention Kish, in the intro & perhaps "get out"? Pashley 20:48, 15 November 2008 (EST)
We really need to have a standard spelling for the various attractions in Sheki. Caravansarai is, IMHO, the proper English rendition for what we are now calling everything from Caravan Saray to Caravan Palace. The Khan Palace is more complex, as there is no direct translation. I would prefer that we explain it as "The Palace of the Sheki Khans" and then entitle it using a transliteration from the Azeri: "Khansarai". Does this seem reasonable? --PeterTalk 03:45, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
I had wondered about the various different spellings we have on this page. What you suggest sounds reasonable enough -- Tim (writeme!) 11:50, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
Sheki's been nominated for OtBP, but there are several things that, in my mind, need to be done first:
Buy and Do need listings of actual places, rather than (or in addition to) general descriptions of what you can do. Names of establishments are needed.
Name standardization as per above
Map (I'll work on this)
The number of pictures should be reduced dramatically—there should probably be no more than 6-7 high quality images—and all of the images should be right-aligned thumbs.
The 2 itineraries could really use some tightening up and polish. The activities are good, but we need to be a friendlier guide and chat the visitor through the trip. See Along the Magnificent Mile (a Chicago itinerary) for an excellent example of how to do this.
These things taken care of, we could put this up as a OtBP destination of the month and start thinking about nominating it as a star! --PeterTalk 02:29, 13 August 2007 (EDT)
I think this is now quite close to OtBP-ready status. The most urgent addition is the map. From the comments above, it looks as though the existing map has been OK'd for use by its creators, but (1) I worry that they might not have given as complete a release as needed for our purposes, and (2) it doesn't look like a Wikitravel map. Peter, how close to ready is the map you're working on? -- Bill-on-the-Hill 19:35, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
My map lacks only the listings icons, which would take less than an hour to put in. I was just waiting for Cupcakecommander to let me know some tea-house locations so we could have a drink section to the map. --PeterTalk 19:55, 20 September 2007 (EDT)
In addition to the ToDo list above, there is some more work to be done on the listings. The embassy's map that you uploaded has a bunch of good looking listings that are missing from our article. In particular there is an ancient Albanian church right near the city center and a bunch of bathhouses. I think we should have a "see" entry for the church. As for the bathhouses, we should list names and addresses/directions. If there isn't much different from one to another, we can just note that and skip descriptions (but recommendations would be good!).
Lastly, we really ought to have specific teahouse listings, if only so that I can put them on the map (which is basically done, except for putting in listings). Do the teahouses have individual names? Or are they just nondescript places with men drinking tea? --PeterTalk 22:47, 27 August 2007 (EDT)
Sheki is really close to being a star, and in my opinion, only needs a few, relatively minor things done:
Fewer hotel images—I'd say just the Caravansarai & maybe one of the Sheki Hotel tower + town center (I've got one of those)
More attraction/general city photos—I have a few really nice ones, but does anyone have a good one of the Khansarai (without any identifiable people in it)?
Hours information is needed for some attractions (Caravansarai, Juma Mosque, Silk Factory, Sheki Painting Gallery, Abduxaliq hamam)
Hiking routes need to be better explained, step-by-step. We need to say, "take a taxi to Town X, then hike to destination X, then walk back along the road to Sheki"—that sort of thing, so the route is really clear to people who don't know the area.
I'm not sure the bank locations are useful to travelers. I think we could just remove the list—anyone who is in a bind and needs a wire transfer or something like that will be able to simply ask someone "Where is a bank?"
I'm also tempted to remove the entire "Learn" section. With no specifics, it isn't useful, brings down the quality of the article, and probably isn't necessary anyway.
Restaurants need hours information & the Chelebi Khan Restaurant needs a description.
Phone numbers need a standardized format. What is the country code and what is the city code?
That's it, and for anyone living there (ahem, User:Cupcakecommander), this should be really easy to finish. It would be great to have our first star article for the Caucasus! --PeterTalk 20:26, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
I will start working on it when I get to Sheki again-I was moved to Zaqatala in December. I've sent some English language youth groups in Sheki the details as well as the PCVs there, so I think that the list should be finished in 2 months. Is that soon enough :)? Cupcakecommander 15:05, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
No worries about timing—we're a wiki, so we have no deadlines! Anyway, I hope you're enjoying Zaqatala ;) --PeterTalk 09:37, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
We've made great progress on this, but we still need to accomplish points 4, 7, & 8, in order for this article to become one of our star articles. 8 in particular should be really easy to do. --PeterTalk 15:19, 12 August 2008 (EDT)
Any thoughts on the phone numbers? I will be in Sheki before I leave Azerbaijan for 5 days, so I hope I can get the rest done by then.. Cupcakecommander 07:58, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
Looks good! Just need hours for the rest of the restaurants, and more detailed info on how to find your way along the hikes. If they're really obvious, then we should at least note that. I'd head out on the hike with the current info, but I'm adventurous and have an internal GPS. --PeterTalk 14:09, 30 August 2008 (EDT)
I put as much information as I could find for the hikes. The last two I am still a bit unsure about, but I know certainly that the first two are flushed out well. I put the times up as well. Please let me know if there is anything that I could add, as I am here till Thursday.Cupcakecommander 03:37, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
Looks great! I'll try and do a quick read through for typos and formatting this week, and then I'll recommend you nominate it for star status. First though, Chelebi Khan, Kerpish, and Istanbul restaurants all still need hours. It would also be great to have hours for the tea house by the Khansarai (or maybe just a note in the drink section stating when tea houses in Sheki usually are open?). The hours information is really crucial for star status, but I think that's all that's left! --PeterTalk 09:08, 2 September 2008 (EDT)
Peter,let me know if there is anything else to do. I have one more day in Sheki before I go to the US. Thanks for your help!! Cupcakecommander 08:17, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
No, it looks fantastic to me, definitely star material. You might want to wait, though, before nominating it — I just started a discussion about using the 24 hour clock. Otherwise it might be necessary to use AM/PM time formats in this article for it to become a star. --PeterTalk 09:16, 3 September 2008 (EDT)
So, all it has to be is flush with either of the formats, right?Cupcakecommander 23:36, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
Yes, and it looks like we will change that policy article, based on the current opinions on that page, so I say nominate it whenever you like, provided all hours are on the 24hr clock. I look forward to our first Caucasian star! --PeterTalk 23:57, 8 September 2008 (EDT)
This article is the most developed article in the Caucus region and is quite through in its detail of sights, places to stay, and even some cultural insight to the city.
Support. I've already critiqued this article on the article talk page and had my concerns addressed—I think it's ready for a star. I'd be happy to hear other critiques though, if they are forthcoming! If this one makes it, we'll get to add a new section to the Wikitravel:Star articles page for the Caucasus! Anyway, User:Cupcakecommander has done some terrific work with this one, making a truly complete guide to a city for which no other real guides exist, and which is a lovely travel destination—easily one of my favorites in Eastern Europe. --PeterTalk 10:12, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
Almost Support - There is only one thing I think should still be fixed. Prices below 1 AZN is given both with (0.5 AZN) and without (.5 AZN) the leading 0. For uniformity and to ensure that one does not accidentally read 5 AZN for .5 AZN, I would suggest that they all be change to include the leading 0. --Nick 13:45, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
Almost support. Wow, what an interesting place! If this becomes a star it'll be fantastic, as we don't have any from this region of the world. After a long scan though, I found some nitpicky issues I thought should be addressed:
Most of the listings that have hours lack days. For instance, is this place open daily, or just a few days of the week?
The Handicrafts under Buy is not marked on the map.
There's an infobox for Eliehmed Confectioneries, but should it just be its own listing? And if so, it should be marked on the map if possible.
There's two eat listings marked on the map which have no mention in the article, as far as I could tell: Milli Yemeklar and the Turkish Bakery.
The Kerpish Restaurant, Laziz Restaurant, Cold Spring/Soyuk Bulagh Restaurant, and Sheki Saray Hotel Restaurant lack prices.
One of the hotels is spelled Shail Pansinot in the article, but Sahil Pansinot on the map.
Finally, none of the hotels have check-in/check-out times. But then again, I don't know if its customary for hotels to have that in this part of the world. PerryPlanet 14:11, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
...am PerryPlanet, I'm pretty sure postings are supposed to go in sequential order??? Asterix 15:43, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
You'd think they would, but when I was editing the page the only edit conflict I had was with Peter's reply to the guy above me. I didn't even see yours until I was finished editing the page. Don't ask me... PerryPlanet 19:14, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
You're right, there are definitely a few map updates missing—thanks for catching these! I'll try and get a hold of Josh to help me locate the confectioneries listing on the map. I think I stayed at one place in the Caucasus that had a check-out time, but didn't encounter any here. Anyway, we haven't been including that in the criteria for star articles, and I'm not sure I'd want to change that. When you call the hotel or arrive there, they'll tell you themselves! And I agree that the confectioneries should be listingified, but I'll need Josh to do that, since I don't have an address. --PeterTalk 22:04, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Some Objections: I like this article, it seems like a really simple and quaint place. Overall I think it’s great, I like the abundance of pictures which really compliment the text. Mostly just some MoS issues for me…
Listings are not in alphabetical order.
Not all the listings are on the map
It would be nice I think to get more specific with some listings, like in the “Drink Section”… to give the names and addresses of specific cafes etc.
Throughout the article it uses the 24 hour clock, which I prefer, but is this standard on WT? Also, it lists 10:00 instead of 10 etc.
How much is entry to the Drama Theater? Also, how much do the guided tours cost?
It would nice to have hours in the “Buy” section, even for the Bazaars.
In “Eat” section, average prices or price ranges for regional specialties would be good and there are some prices missing for a few restaurants there.
I notice that some of the phone/fax numbers are missing the ‘994’ prefix...I think I saw 944 in there as well. Also lengths of phone no's differs somewhat...might want to check that.
Is there anything else that could be added to the “Cope” section…like publications etc?
As per verbage in the “Contact” section, it would be nice to more than one post office marked on the map.
Caravansarai is mentioned in “See” and “Sleep” which eschews the “no duplications rule." Also their phone no’s are different?
I don’t know does it apply as much here, but any info on check in and out times in “Sleep?”
I don’t think that all of the sections need introductions but perhaps it would help to add a few? For example, imo “Eat” could use one, as could “Sleep” and “See”
Not sure about touting the bottled water as ”healthy” so much especially with environmental concerns about bottling water etc
Abbreviations for address needed…St not Street etc.
’T’ used instead of ‘Tu’ per time and date format.
Sorry about the long list; most of them would probably not stop it becoming a star but I think that some would. If I catch anything else later I’ll let you know. Well done on a great job. Asterix 14:01, 10 September 2008 (EDT)
I talked with Josh about the teahouses quite a bit, and our agreement eventually was that there are no real differences between the teahouses (same tea, same men milling about), they have no phone numbers to call, and they're all over the place—they'd be hard not to find. So we decided to leave individual listings for them out of the article. If someone is looking for one, they'd probably only have to walk a few steps, but they could also check the map for the ones located close to tourist areas.
We're still sort of debating whether to use the 24 hour clock for destinations that use it (that is, all posted schedules in Azerbaijan are in the 24 hour format), but I don't think that should hold up a star nomination anyway--as long as the article is internally consistent.
For the drama theater & guided tour prices, my guess is that they vary wildly, but I'll try and get Josh to comment on that.
Regarding the Caravansarai, I'm not sure that there is a better way to display the information. It's the second biggest attraction in the city, but is also perhaps the best hotel option as well. I've taken out the (incorrect) contact information in the see entry and linked directly to the sleep entry, where you can find the contact info. Hopefully that will resolve this problem, as well as it can be.
And regarding the bottled water, the natural mineral waters in these parts are supposed to have all sorts of health benefits, and are safe from parasites, so I think that's what that is referring to.
I'll make sure to get all the map issues fixed too. --PeterTalk 22:49, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Support Though i agree with the above comment, that listing should be on the map of possible Sertmann 13:23, 25 September 2008 (EDT)
Almost support. I think it looks pretty good and pretty darn close... once all the above concerns are addressed, I'll support. Definitely hours should be formatted correctly, and also phone #'s should all start with +994 – cacahuatetalk
I'm still working on some of the above concerns, but wanted to document that I've taken care of both the hours and phone numbers. --PeterTalk 23:11, 21 October 2008 (EDT)
Just wanted to jump in and let any potential slushers know not to slush this discussion. Hopefully I'll get some help from User:Cupcakecommander, but I'm committed to getting the above issues resolved and getting a nice star on this Caucasian article. Just a matter of time. --PeterTalk 01:17, 11 October 2008 (EDT)
OK, I think I've done all that I'm inclined to do. I've stricken the objections/suggestions that have been taken care of. The ones that remain, I've tried to address in that longer comment just above. What's the process for making this a star now? Nick and Asterix have both stopped contributing here, so they won't be able to reverse their earlier positions... --PeterTalk 17:30, 11 November 2008 (EST)
It's looking much better now...I'm rather confused about the Handicrafts listing though. It looks like it's labeled "Handicapped Association" on the map, but then under the Shebeke listing, you have the "Handicraft Association headquarters at 85 Vidadi St", which is different than the "18 A. Cabrayilov St" given under the Handicrafts listing. So I'm definitely rather bewildered on that one. But other than that it looks fine. I fully Support now. PerryPlanet 00:26, 12 November 2008 (EST)
If someone is not checking regularly, I think it's unfair for a potential star, to drop into oblivion, just because of this. And besides they would have ample time to object by now - so I think the nomination should carry on regardless of these users opinions. And I of course still Support. --Stefan (sertmann)Talk 19:36, 15 November 2008 (EST)
OK, I'm going to give this another week (so 2 weeks from my final fixes), before declaring it our first ever FSU star! --PeterTalk 14:06, 18 November 2008 (EST)