I moved most of the info from Golden Gate Bridge to here, and tried making it a little bulleted attraction, but it kept getting too big. So then I just made it a subsection of "See". I don't think the GGBridge should have its own article -- see Wikitravel:What is an article? -- but I also didn't think it was small enough for a bullet point. Comments? -- Evan 13:53, 4 Nov 2003 (PST)
IMHO Caltran should actually be under Get In, the reason being that it runs between S.F. and the airport. Of course it also goes to Silicon Valley, but who would "Get Out" of S.F. to go there, unless it's for a job, in which case the worker doesn't probably need wikitravel.. ;) -- Mark 05:51, 12 Dec 2003 (PST)
Evan, didn't you notice that "BARTing dogs don't bike" is a joke? It should go to BJAODN. -phma 22:52, 13 Dec 2003 (PST)
You are sooooo begging for someone to acknowledge that joke, aren't you? Yes, it cracked me up. Then again, I have a terrible sense of humor.
On a more serious note, not only don't we not yet have a Wikitravel:Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense, but... I'm wondering if we need it! I don't know if humor is as much out of place in a travel guide as it would be in, say, an encyclopedia (just to pull an example out of the air).
I guess I just wonder if the tone of a travel guide doesn't allow for a little more flexibility on these matters. Then again, again, maybe we would still need a BJAODN for this joke in particular. --Evan 07:12, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)
What about "Coke: imbuvable" in the French phrasebook? I don't find that funny, it'd hinder anyone trying to get a Coke in France, and it should be taken away in a hovercraft full of eels. -phma 07:20, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)
Checking around, I found another: "sarong wrap". I like it. I think the jokes should stay. -phma 07:42, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)
So, I figure (once again, trying to make a rule for everything) that jokes should be with the traveler, not on the traveler (the traveller comes first). Our goal is not to make a knock-knock joke book, of course, but there's no reason all our prose has to be bone-dry and boring. Jokes and humor probably shouldn't get in the way of people who need information, and they shouldn't be the principle part of a guide, but I think that a light tone may be just fine. --Evan 07:54, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)
I removed "nosey" from the description of smoking as it is not in keeping with the neutrality of Wikitravel. Perhaps there is another word that is neutral. Also, one can argue whether it actually is nosy, as the concern is typically about the health or comfort of the complainant, not the smoker. Notty 14:48, Feb 7, 2004 (EST)
As a smoker and a San Franciscan, I can say that it's impressive how self-righteous and intrusive people can be about smoking. The same folks who wouldn't lift a finger to stop a mugging or a beating are positively eager to cross the street to give you a lecture about how rude you are to have a cig in the open air. It's probably worth noting that the Bay Area is almost unique this way (people in parts of the Pacific Northwest do the same thing).
That said, I thought you did a good job making the paragraph more neutral. --Evan 15:54, 7 Feb 2004 (EST)
I just noticed that the insertion of "nosey" as well as changing "Be aware" to "Beware" at the time this was moved from the intro to Understand was marked as a minor edit. I'm uncomfortable about this. If I were more skilled at Wiki I might have not bothered to check the move, and would have missed this edit. I'm happy to assume that this was an accident: I'm guessing you decided to move the paragragh, according to the description, so correctly marked it as a minor edit, then decided to revise the text during the preview process, forgetting to uncheck minor edit or update the summary.
I'm conflicted as to whether "Beware" is neutral, but if people have actually crossed the street to chew you out about smoking (whether or not that particular person would ignore a mugging), then perhaps "Beware" is an appropriate word. For the record, while I am anti-smoking, I try to restrict my comments to the problem ("I'm sorry, but your smoke is bothering me. Could you please put it out?") and if it can be handled easily (say, by dropping back or walking faster or moving downwind or suggesting we switch places in line) I don't bother to say that at all. And I have a whistle I blow if I see attempts at violence, although I admit I can be slow on the uptake if I'm not sure what is going on.
Also, as you are probably already aware, in the US it is common to comment and query on things such as others' weight or visible physical defects, so if San Franciscans are indeed nosy, they are not alone.