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Talk:Prague

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Revision as of 06:39, 20 July 2006 by Thewayoftheduck (Talk | contribs)

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Prague working Group

I've got 3 other volunteers who are going to be working with me on the Prague article. We'll be having our first meeting at The Globe on Tues Aug 16th at 1:30. Anybody else is welcome to join us. If you want to find us have a look at my page and then look for a similar face at the Cafe. Hopefully the Prague article will improve shortly. Aburda 03:32, 14 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Ok Kim, Alicia and Alison you can go ahead and add comments below here (or anywhere else you would like) try and add your ideas about the article here. I am still hunting for a good place to get internet connectivity so my connectivity may be a bit sporadic over the next couple of days. Aburda 03:47, 17 Aug 2005 (EDT)
BTW, for anybody else who wants to work on the Prague article, the group is going to start with Haje. We'll be taking a trip on Monday the 22nd to gather information. We'll be meeting on the steps of Muzeum at 9:00. All are welcome. Aburda 03:47, 17 Aug 2005 (EDT)


First Thoughts by Aaron

Districts - We should get rid of using the Prague numbers, use the older region names instead and only add regions that we have good content for

Hradčany
Malá Strana
Staré Město
Vinohrady
Vršovice
Háje
Holešovice(?)
Vyšehrad
Nusle
Žižkov

(Not a comprehensive list, add more or remove if you think we should)

Does anybody have any drawing skills? We need a map (and we can't use any existing maps for copyright reasons). Just something simple that is kind of a copy of the metro map). It would have to be done in photoshop or something similar.


Understand - I hate this section We need to focus on being informative about Czech culture and not expat (although that shouldn't be left out either). As discussed, a section of 'peculiarities' that people visiting for longer term will need to get used to should be added here.

See - Most of this stuff will be moved under the District articles, anybody have any ideas as to what attractions should be put here and not under the Distric pages? i.e. do we want to have a blank 'see' section on the main page and have all content under the Districts or are there somethings (the clock, bridge, etc.) that are to universal for Prague to be put in a district?

Eat - Section totally sucks, need a better description of foods on the main page and under the Distric pages (to be created) specific restaurants (with links to mapy.cz).

Do - Pretty weak description of all of the things to do in Prague, this section on the main page (IMHO) should contain lots of information as things like Ultimate Frisbee, etc. should not be put into a specific district (even if the training may take place there). On the other hand, dancing at 'The country club' would seem to definitely belong in 'Haje'

Sleep - totally sucks we need specific info for:

  1. locations of hostels, pensions and hotels,
  2. specific prices, links to their websites (how to make reservations)
  3. links to mapy.cz with their location (this information should be under the regional sub headings. #information about camping

Just my thoughts, in no way comprehensive, let me know what you think. BTW, if you want add a comment, at the end of the comment, to sign your name put for tildes (~) in a row and it automatically adds your name and the date and time. Aburda 04:52, 17 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Origin of material

It seems painfully obvious that the information added by the first anonymous contributor was copied verbatim from a book or an online source, most likely without the permission of the copyright holder. That contribution still forms the bulk of the contents of this page. Thus, it makes sense that it is removed. Dpol 19:28, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Dpol: this article was originally contributed by User:Bittergirldotcom, based on a book she'd done before. It's her own work, and not a copyvio. Good eye, though! --Evan 21:28, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Yep! Always a good thing to keep a lookout for. That said, I think this page could use some work to move it more into our Wikitravel:Manual of style since the book she was working on had a somewhat different tone/goal than Wikitravel. I keep meaning to get back to it... Majnoona 21:52, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)
Sorry for jumping to conclusions, I had no idea that the original author had herself contributed parts of her book to the article. Dpol 21:15, 9 Jul 2004 (EDT)

I would like to take over the the Prague article but would like to find somebody to collaborate with on it, or at least to give me a bit of advice. All of my other articles have been just putting everything in my head down on paper, I'ld like to make this one a bit more professional. I'm in Prague and have the next month free (and can speak Czech) so its just a question of figuring out what information I should gather around the city and what needs to be cleaned up. If anybody is interested in cooperating email or skype me (info on my page). Aburda 07:27, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Removed paragraphs

wow! this is a lot of great information! Maybe it should be organized into on of the Wikitravel:City article templates.

I removed the following paragraphs from the article because they're not relevant to travel. Put them back if you think they belong... KJ 21:47, 8 Sep 2003 (PDT)

I'd suggesting infoboxing these on the side, they're interesting as background info. Jpatokal 20:24, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)

Czech artists, writers and poets:

Franz Kafka, Jaroslav Hasek, Dvorak, Smetana, Milos Forman, Josef Skvorecky, Milan Kundera, Vaclav Havel, the anonymous Czech Gothic painter known as the Master of the Vyssi Brod altar, Baroque artists Christopher and Killian Ignaz Dientzenhofer as well as Giovanni Santini, Gothic architect Petr Parler, Karel Capek, Viteslav Nezval, Jaroslav Seifert, Bohumil Hrabal, Bozena Nemcova, Karel Hynek Macha, S.K. Neumann, Jan Neruda and Ivan Klima.

Notable books:

Metamorphosis, The Castle, The Good Soldier Schweik, The Bartered Bride (opera), The Unbearable Lightness of Being, The Engineer of Human Souls, Letters to Olga, Grandmother, R.U.R. (the word 'robot' was used for the first time in R.U.R!)

The Hussites

[Removed by Hypatia 12:09, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)]

Depending on the sect, Hussites could be incredibly radical and forward-thinking for their time. Some sects, such as the Taborites, named after the town of Tabor where they lived, even advocated communal property, free love and the abolition of marriage! No wonder they got into such trouble. Hussitism threatened the Catholic status quo and for a time, Catholic rulers around Europe feared the Hussites almost as much as the Turks. The difference was that the Hussites were an "enemy from within." It was visually easy to tell a Turk from a Western European but not so the Hussites. Though their religious beliefs were similar to those of fellow Protestant Lutherans, for the Hussites religion became important as a national rallying cry against foreign (read: Catholic) oppression. This was the first time the Czechs chose to take a stand against those who wanted to enforce cultural values on them. The end result was the Battle of Bila Hora (see section on Hvezda above) and years of Catholic domination that was more thoroughly enforced here than elsewhere as a means of rooting out what the rulers saw as heresy and the Czechs viewed as freedom.

The Golem

[Removed by Hypatia 14:27, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)]

In 1580 Rabbi Loew, a scholar whose knowledge of the esoteric Kabbala interpretations of Hebrew scriptures was matched only by his leadership skills, decided the Jewish ghetto needed a protector who could be vigilant around the clock. These were dangerous times - the non-Jewish community believed Jews kidnapped and murdered Christian babies for use in their religious ceremonies, and accusations had reached a fevered pitch. The good rabbi decided to make a human-like figure from Vltava River mud which, Frankenstein-like, could be brought to life. Instead of the stereotypical lightning-bolt mad scientist laboratory scenario, the Golem was brought to life with a slip of paper in its mouth, on which a magic formula was written. One Sabbath Rabbi Loew forgot to deactivate the Golem and the monster went crazy, destroying the house and half the ghetto before his 'parent' got home in time to deactivate him.

Photos under by-sa

Not sure if this is the place to post this, but: if anyone wants photographs of Prague (and nearby areas), my brother recently took a trip there. About 500 photographs are available at http://www.vu.union.edu/~stodolan/prague_web/ under the Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike license (or the GFDL). No model releases have been obtained, and some of the photos may be of copyrighted material (street posters, signs, etc.), so stay away from questionable material. Luke Stodola

Removed paragraphs?

  • Resulting riot was not great. Destruciton of Aeroflot's window is believed to be at least partialy provoced by secret police agents and served as pretence for opression by Soviet occupants.
  • children are mesmerized by it astronomomical clock - not only children :)
Lol, yeah. I've got a photo of 500 tourists all staring at the clock (need to scan it in ;P - would be quite a funny addition, maybe not completely on topic).
  • Turk was always a Turk. There is different figure, shaking pouch, which was called Jew and represented greed and usury. After WWII it was slightly changed and named Niggard (Greed).
  • Charles Bridge is not so popular gathering place in Prague during warm weather, because its absulutely crowded by tourists. Only in the meaning that hords of tourist are gathering on Charles bridge.
  • No Czech national heroes are on the bridge. Only Bruncvik fits that cathegory and he is only statue out of bridge, on separate pillar.
  • Nepomuks tongue is not so interesting for beeing perfectly preserved after drought, but beeing preserved up to now. Although sceptic scientis say its wizened Nepomunks brain, legend is that the reliquia is tongue.
  • Hus he was not burned by the express wish of the emperor.
  • Name Prazsky Curak - name unknown in Prague. Maybe some personal word play with Cukrak.

Districts

I'm going to start splitting Prague into districts, starting with Praha 1: Old Town, New Town, Lesser Town, Jewish Town, and Castle. I'm not using the Czech names for them since the tour guides largely don't.

I'm not doing the other numbered districts at the moment, but they can be added in future, I presume -- Hypatia 11:11, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)

OK, changed my mind about the other districts, since there are actually some attractions outside Praha 1 ;). I've divided them into four, one for each cardinal direction. I suppose they can be divided again if they get too big. -- Hypatia 12:11, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)
I took a stab at moving the remaining sleep listinging into the district pages but I can't always work out which part of Praha 1 they're in. Could someone who knows the city centre better than me move the rest of them? Thanks Thewayoftheduck 02:35, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Praha 1

There's a really good list of attractions by quarter at http://www.prague.cz/prague-sights.asp -- Hypatia 12:11, 7 Nov 2004 (EST) Sleep - ads Why were the following paragrpahs removed? Are they against some policy (ads?)? --Prokonsul Piotrus

Jeruzalemska apartments, Jeruzalemska street (office address: Africká 16/616, 160 00 Praha 6). ph 0602 210 716. fax 0602 673 858. email dasha@accommodation-dasha.cz. Prices for these apartments for two people range from €65 (Christmas, Easter and August), €55 (April - July, September - October), €45 (other) per night for a single room in a shared apartment to €150 (Christmas, Easter and August), €130 (April - July, September - October) and €110 (other) for a large apartment. Wireless broadband is available in the private apartments for €4 per day. http://www.accommodation-dasha.cz/ + Mid-range accomodation can be found in most of the Praha 1 quarters: check in particular the east bank: Jewish Town, Old Town and New Town. Prague Room Apartments. email pragueroom@runbox.com. Reviews describe these apartments as excellent accommodation for the price. The Prague Room rooms and accommodation are very close to the city center and five minutes from the tram stop. Prices for two people range from €37 per night in summer and €28 per night in winter for the smallest rooms to €87 per night in summer and €64 per night in winter for a luxury self contained apartment. http://www.pragueroom.com/ Those look like perfectly appropriate sleep listings to me (we have listings, not ads). I think they should probably go onto the correct district page. -- Mark 08:39, 10 Nov 2004 (EST) They weren't removed, they were simply moved to district pages: look in Prague/New Town for the first one and Prague/Lesser Town for the second. Hypatia 09:59, 18 Dec 2004 (EST

Advertising

81.27.192.66 removed the walking tour chunk of the page on an 18th December edit, with the message "- advertising". This doesn't make sense to me. We provide contact details for commercial services for travellers. That's what being a travel guide is about. In this case, we're providing details of a commercial provider of walking tours.

I was the one who added those particular walking tours. I have no association with the company. I'm happy to see them removed for any of a number of reasons (they're really bad, they've gone out of business, whatever). I'm happy to see competitors listed, and for the existing entry to be shortened. But I don't understand how it's an ad, or at least any more of an ad than any other listing that provides contact details for a travel-related service. I've reverted the edit for now. Hypatia 09:59, 18 Dec 2004 (EST)

It seemed to me overly enthusiastic in describing the services of one of dozens ...-tours companies. Ok, it was lack of judgement. Anyway, I'm not conviced detailed information such as where the tours start or what did it cost are so useful here. The company has a webpage, where the info propably will be updated.
--81.27.192.66
Generally the "you can just look at their webpage" argument doesn't work around here, because of the "we want to create printable guides" goal. That said, probably the best thing to do is trim the description and list several other tour companies. You're welcome to have a go (of course). Hypatia 17:02, 18 Dec 2004 (EST)
Yep, you're right. I should have better studied the goals. I'm affraid several aspects of Wikitravel are so tiresome I'll go somewhere else. Be it a goal "we want to make it printable" (IMO bad one, there are good printed guides, and causes more harm than good, e.g. need for strict hierarchization even if the hierarchy is completely unnatural, or this particular example with including details propably nobody will update). Or little but annoying things like "the american spelling is the right, because we are americans and we decided so" and subtle dislike of wikimedia. --81.27.192.66
Definately. The whole guide could be reduced to 'look at this city's website for accomodation', 'look at this site for things to do'. The whole point of a guide is to bring all these seperate facts together, with personal opinions of people who've been there, and have it in one place. The goal of 'making it printable' is useful, because it gives us an idea of what should be on the page and what should be linked. Eg 300 years of Czech railway history wouldn't be that useful for the traveller, so that's fine to link to (if there's a page on it). But info about when/where a service is provided is obviously exactly what should be in the guide --Lionfish 16:04, 8 Mar 2005 (GMT)

Understand

I'm not a big fan of the understand section. I think the whole thing about foreigners is not really appropriate. We're trying to understand Czech's not the role of the expat community in Prague. There is no group that likes to complain more about itself (IMHO) than the expat community in Prague does. If the info is important it should get a subheading somewhere towards the bottom of Understand but even then it should probably be done more neutrally. The expat community has a lot of negatives about it but like any minority in a society also plays a valuable role. So request for comment, if I don't hear anything I'll modifty it. Aburda 18:02, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Minor attractions

I removed the links to the minor attractions (in the "See" section), as each one deserves to be expounded upon in this article, but none deserve their own stand-alone article. I don't mind adding some background and history to many of the locations, but it will have to wait until I finish my clean-ups of Jerusalem and Jerusalem/Old City. - Cybjorg 02:01, 5 May 2006 (EDT)

Budget sleeping

Anybody having any idea what the suggestion "...or just go to Hlavni Nadrazi (main train station) and take a private sleeping place with a person you find trustworthy (price will be approx the same)..." in the "Budget" sleeping section means? Is it meant seriously? Hlavni Nadrazi is known for its abundance of various suspicious characters and only the very adventurous (and desperate) people should try that. I suggest removing that part of the sentence. 128.6.75.172 15:19, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

I've changed this to reflect safety concerns rather than advising travellers to go this route. I'm sure some people have enjoyed a 'traditional' experience with a Czech family but you're right - they def. need to be alert. Thewayoftheduck 02:26, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

Address Conventions?

Does anyone know what the stardard format for Czech addresses is? I took a (preliminary) stab at cleaning up the sleep listings but the order seems to differ throughout the article and on external pages. Also, it's been so long since I was in Prague that I'm more than a little fuzzy on the districts. If I edit the sleep listings from the main Prague page, can someone with more local knowledge please move them into the correct districts? Thanks Thewayoftheduck 03:10, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

Pasted from my talk page: "I believe Czech addresses are written in this manner: Place, Street 334, Praha 12, Telephone, etc., etc. -- Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:17, 19 July 2006 (EDT)" Thewayoftheduck 02:27, 20 July 2006 (EDT)

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