Paris docents would you please HELP/ADVISE?
I run a business in Paris - Discover Walks - that seems to jive well with the interests of wikitravel contributors and users - namely interacting with locals in Paris. So I've been thinking about adding to the "To Do" section, to tell people what I know about that subject. I've read wiki's rules (about tone and content and style etc.), I've also read the comments and advice from docents on the Paris page, and as a result I tried to write in a neutral way, and include the competition and stay comprehensive and informative.
Would someone kindly review and let me know if you find the text below has value, if it needs additional information, if it should be posted and where etc. Merci!
- “Paris Greeters” are resident volunteers who take small groups around their neighbourhoods (usually off the beaten path, resident districts). Tours are free, donations are appreciated .
- “Discover Walks” show small groups around main landmarks (Notre-Dame etc.) in the company of a native Parisian. Here also tours are free and tips and donations appreciated .
- If you are more independent-minded with an interest in the music scene, you can look up the bi-monthly “Lylo” listings for upcoming band concerts. Most concerts take place in bars, with no cover charge .
Many thanks to Ryan for the guidance and clarifications. As a result, I put a link to an English language page for the Paris Greeters. This way both listings comply with the "don't link to other guides" policy. They are not guides like Wikitravel - instead, Discover Walks and Greeters are attractions, they lead walks that add value vs. what travellers would get on their own.
The third link currently listed I am unsure about - namely Lylo, the music and band concert listing. Obviously concert programs change all the time, and thus cannot be listed on wik. Does Wikitravel then want to mention such resources for travelers?
22 March. I am now posting - with the edits suggested by docents - on to the article the text above. Many thanks for the guidance.
Addition to Do section
Hello, My wife and I have recently started a Vespa Rental business in Paris, Left Bank Scooters, www.leftbankscooters.com I was planning on adding information about our service to the Do section. Just wanted to be upfront that this is our business. We have had great feedback from people on our business and turned one of the comments from a guest into our tag line "See Paris like a Parisien" I hope to be able to add information from my experiences in Paris as well, such as the Terrace Bar at the top (9th floor) of Printemps, which provides one of the best views of Paris and costs nothing. I recommend it to first time travelers as a great way to orientate yourself with the city before hitting the streets. Please feel free to email me or comment here if you have any questions. Regards Matthew Matthewdoyle 14:25, 15 August 2009 (EDT)
Globe-trotter 14:52, 15 August 2009 (EDT)
I just came back from Paris today. I spent a week there and on my second day, I went to the Eiffel Tower with my wife. We were taking pictures when I man walked past and (appeared to) picked something off the ground. He showed me it was a ring and walked away somewhat confused. Then, he returned to show me the ring didn't fit. He offered the ring to me. I put it on and he said his farewell and left. Quickly he turned around, yet again, and asked for some money for him to eat. I said no and he demanded the ring back. My wife and I followed him a bit and saw him performing the same thing all the way to the tower.
A couple of days later my wife and I were sitting across from the Arch de Triomphe and a different guy tried the same trick. It immediately hit me that this might be a common trick employed. I told my wife I would write a note on here in an effort to alert travellers.
Sidenote: Lots of people were warning us of going to Paris and we were so nervous when we went. I must say... Even with the language handicap, my wife and I had so much fun and the majority of folks there were very pleasant personalities.
--VaporOne 19:52, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
Notes on the following Greetings from a New Yorker
To be sure there are some rude people in New York, but most are visitors and transplants from other places. We New York natives are generally kind and thoughtful even when we are in a hurry. One reason is that we know all too well that we might well be in the other guy's shoes at any moment. Those who fail to observe basic civilities are considered almost subhuman. To suggest that big city living justifies such behavior is laughable. --Beenthere 08:41, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
Greetings from a New Yorker
My compliments to the writer(s) of the article on Paris; I found it on the whole an accurate, concise, and enthusiastic review of one of the greatest cities in the world. I especially appreciate the caveat about Paris's big-city self consciousness, which Americans in particular take for "rudeness." Well, as a New Yorker, I have to note that "rudeness" goes with the territory regarding great, large cities. The article, to its credit, addresses this forthtrightly, deftly deflating an enduring American prejudice as well.
I have but three complaints: more should have been said about Paris' (and France's) Latin heritage; yes, Paris is has roots in a Celto-Roman past, but it was the Romans, after all, who bequeathed the language, the roads, and the very urban culture which provide the beating heart of the city and nation to this day. The second quibble: Paris is a great multicultural city, vibrant and on the very forefront of Post-modernity, due in no small part to its African/North-African, Asian, Jewish, Muslim communities and immigrants. This very mix has also given rise to racist sentiments in the city and the nation at large (rather like New York inspires in America before it was fetishized by the Right Wing after 9/11 for rather dubious Conservative adventures home and abroad). Paris is in that handful of cities that set world-wide trends; its vibrant racial/ethnic/cultural mix inspires hope among the more liberal-minded and fear among the xenophobic Conservatives, in France as well as abroad (America's "National Review" has run a number of crudely racist articles suggesting that the Muslim population of France has somehow compromised its democratic, Western legacy, managing to slander Muslims and the French all at once, and ignoring the substantial evidence in contrast to the malarky of such an offensive thesis). Something should have been noted about this.
Finally, no mention of Paris' importance in the academic and intellectual currents of the West. What?! How can this be? Paris is the home of the Sorbonne/Université de Paris, one of the great intellectual centers of the world. This institution has produced such luminaries as Madame Curie, Jean-Paul Sartre, Simone de Beauvoir, and Albert Camus; what of thinkers from Diderot, Voltaire, Rousseau on through Franz Fanon, Pierre Bourdieu, Maryse Condé, Claude Lévy-Strauss, Itzvan Toderov, not to mention a painter or two, such as the impressionists and fauvists produced, as well as some Spaniard in exile, some bloke by the name of Picasso. Oh, and I believe the likes of Jean Renoir, François Truffaut, Jean-luc Godard, Claire Denis made some fairly "decent" films, too.
But, I'm just a querrilous New Yorker sounding comme un bon Parisien, bien sûr; the basics were just about right, anyway. Good job...but perhaps someone may revise the article to make mention of the aforementioned. THANKS!
Hey, I'm wondering what folks think about the districts. Do you think it's better to go by Arrondisement or to give them names like Montmartre? -- Uchuha 08:02, 2003 Nov 7 (PST)
I really liked the little map with the arrondisements. Very useful to get an idea of town. Maybe someone could explain the local zipcode system on the page too. As I understand 75001 means 1st and 75008 8th. I find that easier to locate stuff (e.g. hotels) by than looking up the street names.
Are the types of drinks listed really Parisian specialities? If not - could we move them somewhere else? (France maybe, or drop them altogether if they're nothing too special.) I happily admit my ignorance on the subject... -- Nils March 14th, 7:53AM (CET)
Moved from article:
I replaced the image of the Seine with one of the Eiffel tower. The original was:
The Seine River, Paris
I never quite liked the Seine photo as the "primary" Paris image. Anyway I was in Paris last weekend; I did make a few more photos. Find them on my website, let me know which ones (if any) you think are good for wikitravel.org and I'll upload them. -- Nils 12:53, 29 Mar 2004 (EST)
This is a potential data source:
Removed from main article as Other Guide.
-- Nils 04:09, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)
For a good list of vegetarian restaurants in Paris take a look on HappyCow.net.
-- Mark 08:51, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)
Listings on the main Paris page
Now that we have the arrondissement pages I've been moving the full listings for each item to it's correct arrondissement page. Obviously however we need to have highlights on the main Paris page, both for the traveller, and because people are going to keep adding those things if they don't see them.
So I'm trying to develop a brief form listing for those things. Does that make sense to everybody else? -- Mark 06:28, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)
English vs. French Typesetting
There are a couple of tiny differences (and one big one that we probably don't have to worry about). Mainly unlike in French English typesetting doesn't call for space before an exclamation point, question mark, or colon. I kindof like the French way of doing it myself, and find myself using it in email, and chat and stuff, but I figure we should probably stick to the Enlish way here. What thinks ye? -- Mark 07:42, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)
On the floor
Hey Parisiens/ennes! Can sombody research this potential sleep listing for the 7th which was left by an anon user? Otherwise I will do it next time I'm in town.
Thanks! -- Mark 17:14, 24 Sep 2004 (EDT)
So having taken the plunge and having gone whole hog with the official districts rather than fuzzier neighborhood names, I'm going to add some redirects for travellers using the search engine:
maybe we should do something like this at some point:
parisinconnue dot com
It's a collection of walking routes from one edge of town to another. Neat idea. -- Mark 09:16, 17 Oct 2004 (EDT)
I am a Wikipedia User living in Paris. I don't have time to contribute to your project (besides I have different philosophy about licencing), but if you wish you can take whatever photo from my gallery and upload on your site. I have still many more photos of Paris, so if you need a particular building or street ask for it on my wikipedia talk page. Chopinhauer 08:30, 7 Dec 2004 (EST)
One of the biggest draws to ANY major city is shopping. As a tourist to be of Paris, I was hoping that other "wikians" & parisians could make some shopping recommendations. Examples I would appreciate include : Contemporary Men's Wear, Shoes, etc. If anyone has suggestions (even if it is simply districts to check out), I would appreciate the info. Thanks. -Josh
EDITED : I disagree. The lines are in fact named by numbers. Local will tell you which line number to take, then the end station name. The Metro (urban Paris network) is named by numbers 1 to 14, while the RER (suburban network) is named by letters A to E. But it is true that colour codes are ignored.
detailed articles for some attractions?
Could we do a standalone article for some attractions? I was thinking of the Louvre or Notre-Dame, about which there's a lot to say... Toitoine 17:20, 11 Aug 2005 (EDT)
While adding the "Amusement Park" links I noticed that the layout is a bit... slicey. Is it necessary to divide every section into "editable" sub-sections? There's so many "edit" tags to the right there, and the bold on everything is confusing... I don't have the time to clean now but even then perhaps its for the person who created it to consider.
I'd like to very much thank User:Submarine for his contributions to the section on Parisians and how best to approach them or how best not to. This is really valuable information for english-speaking travellers who wander through the City of Light. That said, I think perhaps the tone of this section is just a bit hard at the moment. I intend to try to do a re-write, softening up the tone just a bit. Criticism is welcome, especially from Submarine. -- Mark 11:03, 13 Nov 2005 (EST)
Riots - Oh come on...
OK, just so everybody knows there's been no rioting in Paris itself. Whoever posted that warning box clearly hasn't been to Paris in the last week or so. I have, and the only rioting I saw was on TV. -- Mark 22:34, 14 Nov 2005 (EST)
Hey there! I have got to say, the Paris article is fantastic, and congratulations to all those who work on it. I haven't been to Paris since I was younger, and I plan to go back in the Easter with a friend. Both of us are a little nervous about the prospect (but excited!) and I'll be using info from your page as advice (thank you!!).
But if someone wouldn't mind helping me, I'd like to ask a few questions about Paris before I travel. My French is rusty, and I don't really want to rely on it fully. What I'm asking is there anyone I can propose questions to about Paris? Preferably to someone who can tell me where is the most British-friendly places, or places to avoid? Any help I'd greatly appriciate. If you can help, please leave a message on my talk page at Wikipedia. My username is Cuahl. My Userpage. Thanks for your time all, and I hope this wasn't too out of place to request this 184.108.40.206 23:50, 7 Jan 2006 (EST)
Thanks for the help, Mark
Hey Mark, thanks for replying to my questions on my Wikipedia account. I created one here thinking my questions may help others and hopefully I might have something to contribute soon. Everytime I have visited Paris (five times now) I have stayed at L'hôtel du Lion (website). I don't know much about Paris but from what I knew the location was fantastic, and the staff were amazingly friendly. They even remembered my face after about two years apart. I'm thinking about going back to visit this hotel, but as I'm a student I'm quite happy for just a simple bed to sleep in! This hotel is €86. Do you think that's worth the price? Would I be better off looking elsewhere for more simple? I also looked up a deal on the Eurostar website for a Eurostar/hotel package deal which sounded good.. I can't find it at the moment but I'll edit here when I do. Thanks so much again for helping - BarrY 10:25, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)
The Lion looks like a pretty average deal. The rooms look nice and the location is good for the tourist sights. If you are more interested in food and drink then something in the 4th would be better located (especially for your friend). Of course the Lion is in a good spot for exploring the 5th which is more student-oriented.
I think you can probably get a cheaper room though if you try. There's a new hotel-hostel listing in the 9th that you could try. They're offering rooms from 24 euro. If it's good let us know.
Also worth considering is the Elverado in the 17th. It's a super good value.
Disambiguation of Paris
We will need to think about Disambiguation for Paris at some point. There is a Paris (Arkansas), Paris (Texas) and I am sure others. but there are massive links to Paris, France When we are ready, let me know and I would be happy to split is up with otheres. -- Xltel 15:59, 30 Jan 2006 (EST)
This, sadly, seems more like another guide site, and is therefore forbidden. That said they seem to know what they are talking about, so it's worth keeping here on the talk page.
The best English-language cultural guide is the weekly updated http://www.gogoparis.com, otherwise, http://www.time-out.com publish a smaller selection of events online, and the Paris Tourist Office http://en.parisinfo.com does its best in English too.
This is making me think twice about keeping the link on this talk page, but it does seem like a useful guide, so I'm keeping it for now. Attn Go Go fans: Don't keep adding it to the article. We don't link to other guides. If you keep doing it I'll strike it from here as well. -- Mark 05:16, 1 September 2006 (EDT)
So I removed all listings in this article. In a comment, the persistent anonymous editor remarked that the apartments are citywide. This is a good point. Per ongoing discussions at Wikitravel talk:Accommodation listings, I've removed the ones which fail to meet the "has a physical office" criteria. Please do not re-add any without including an office.
Also I haven't reviewed these agencies to see if they meet the other proposed criteria -- for example, rentals of a less than a week must be permitted to be listed. -- Colin 13:42, 29 December 2006 (EST)
1. Do we want these links at all? if so: 2. Where do the links belong?
Folks, this page has become a candidate for protection under bullet 4 of the Wikitravel:Protected page policy. Please find a way to settle the edit war currently in progress. -- Bill-on-the-Hill 17:01, 29 December 2006 (EST)
Blogs About Paris ...
As many people in love with the city of light, I think it might be very useful to indicate some good independant blogs about Paris ! A good way to share addresses ... http://inparis.canalblog.com
Airport & Public transport
Sorry, I don't get it.
I want to go from the airport to the center, spend a day, and go back in the evening. I realized that the Mobilis would cost 12,30 for one day. For Zones
1+2 only it would be 5,50 for one day.
But how much is a ticket from the airport to Zone 2? Not even the RATP website would tell me.
TNX for info!
It states in the Metro section that it is cheaper to get to CDG Airport by taxi. Surely not!
Taxis cost about 1.30 Euro per km. It's 25 km from Central Paris to CDG - so that's 30 Euros for a start, plus charges for waiting time. I've seen estimates of 45 Euros.
The one-way fare by RER is 8 Euros. So how can the taxi be cheaper (even with a full load of 4 people)?
In any case in usual Paris traffic conditions it's unlikely to be quicker by taxi.
Exile 03:58, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
For the record, this is the 'whiner'...and you are absolutely correct. A taxi to CDG should cost around 45 Euros. My recent experience, however, was that it cost my wife and I 50 Euros on the RER. As I indicated in my original post, this included the RER fare (which we would have gladly paid...had anyone bothered to tell us) plus the associated on the spot fines. My intent was to warn tourists and other first time visitors to Paris that RER appears to have set up their system specifically to exploit this problem, and given what they are making off it, they have absolutely no interest in correcting the problem! I was perfectly aware of the fact that the RER was a separate system from the metro, but one that uses the same tickets within the City of Paris...hence the source of the confusion. So...one incorrect assumption on my part...and one incorrect assumption on YOURS!
It seems reasonable to me that in any major city, particularly a tourist destination such as Paris, such information would be readily accessible. I even spoke to the ticket collector at the station, depositing my tickets and asking which direction for the airport. The ticket collector, who apparently didn't speak much English (understandable...and not a problem!) clearly understood that I was going to the airport, and that I had put in the wrong tickets. He made no effort to stop me, explain, or collect the correct fare. When I spoke to the Inspector on the train...he suggested that I 'should have asked the ticket collector!!!' It seems to me that I did everything that a reasonable person could be expected to do in the circumstances to obtain the correct information, but it wasn't readily available. I would be willing to bet that a LOT of tourists have this same experience (they sure did on my train!)...so you MIGHT want to re-think the 'DUH!' crack, as well!
The RER clearly has a good thing going here, and they ARE exploiting it on the backs of tourists...it isn't aimed at anyone else...the locals all know better!!! Why settle for an 8 Euro fare, when you can systematically add a 17 Euro fine to every tourist (they're leaving anyway!)by simply not making any effort to explain their system to visitors, and ensuring that you exploit that ignorance to the absolute maximum (I've since been told that the gangs of inspectors are on absolutely EVERY train going to CDG!) by fining dozens and dozens of tourists on every single train?
So here we have it...the 'user-friendly' solution would be a multilingual sign in each station advising patrons of the system. This ensures that their system is complied with, allows them to provide good service without an unrealistic expectation that staff will all become multilingual, and ensures that passengers are left with a good impression of their service. Total cost? 100 Euros per station (maybe!). Or, you can set out to catch and fine as many people who are ignorant of your system as you can. (On my train car 20 passengers = 340 Euros in fines, times six cars on the train, times every single train every day!!!). When you conclude that they are making approximately 20 times the cost of the required sign off a single train...it quickly becomes clear that the motivation is economics, and had NOTHING to do with rule enforcement!!! So I say again...those of you visiting Paris for the first time...BE WARNED!!! Some of the pickpockets that you are warned about on the trains are actually operating them!!!
I propose getting rid of the arondissements template at the bottom of all the Paris pages... is it really needed? We don't do that for any other city districts, I think them being listed in the districts section on the Paris page is sufficient... any objections? - Cacahuate 02:22, 10 March 2007 (EST)
are some of the things on this site a joke!? seriously, 'adopting a hugh grant accent might help?'?? is it just jokes people have put in? and on the havana page as well theres some wierd things!
A la recherche du croissant
The International Herald Tribune has a blog called Globespotters that its reporters contribute to, documenting the cities where they live. They've got a Paris section, which has a page on the best croissants in the city:
Is this kind of information good for the Paris Wikitravel page? If so, how could it be worked in?Chrisvnicholson 04:26, 20 June 2007 (EDT)
This entire section seems a bit odd to me. Why should "don't litter," "don't yell," and "behave like you would at home," be specific only to Paris? Is it okay to litter, shout, and be rude to people in other places? Don't Smoke makes little sense when, apparently, one can smoke in bars, restaurants, and other places. I think that the entire section should be deleted. The information on fines for littering, and the anti-smoking laws is useful though - is there a better place to put that?--Wandering 16:03, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
Even the respect section under France needs some rewriting. With the number of admonishments not to speak loudly, one would think that the French are equipped with particularly sensitive ear-drums!--Wandering 13:24, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
Jwbnyc 14:04, 29 August 2009 (EDT)
Hi - an excellent article and very informative. An improvement I personally would really appreciate is a section about getting around by motorcycle/scooter. Regards Manning in Australia
At the end of the "Stay Safe" section, there is a remarkable passage about the threat of bee spitting polar bears. As a permanent resident of Paris, I can assure you this is not a problem. ^^ I'm assuming this is a joke edit by a spammer. I'm leaving it uncahnged in case the sentence originally contained a proper warning about a certain type of person, which was replaced by the polar bears. Consider revising. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs)
We should use this somehow
It's a first-person account, and so I understand why it was reverted, but I quite like the writing style:
Driving in Paris is less like a sedate cruise around a beutiful city taking in the sights, and more like a horn blowing, tyre screeching race. Parisian drivers are usually fiddling with the stereo, with their hand on the horn and giving everyone and their dog the middle finger. Lines on the road are there purely for decoration and the normal route is the shortest distance between two points, so expect that you will be cut off, and account for that fact, otherwise you will have some angry Parisian driver crash into you. There are very few Parisian cars (cars with 75 as the last 2 numbers on their license plate) that aren't peppered with dents. Parking involves finding a space 4 inches smaller than your car and crashing into the car behind you until you're in. At any given moment after 5pm on a weekday until about 8pm, I'd estimate that 75% of the cars driving around are just looking for that elusive parking space. There is just not enough parking in the city. Most of the buildings are late 19th and early 20th century, and were never designed with parking. Also, France has the highest percentage of motorbike usage in Europe, and children over 14 years old are able to take to the streets in vehicles up to 50cc. This limit means they constantly try to eek the last horse out of their engine, meaning theyre loud and irritating, and usually ridden by someone with less of a regard for the rules of the road than the flies stuck to their visor. When these people reach 18, they upgrade to the latest Japanese superbike, revving the engine loudly at pretty women and people taking their time to cross the road. The best thing to do here is ignore them. When stuck in traffic, you'll find this troop of motos weaving amongst the traffic revving their puny little engines and beeping the horn to tell you theyre coming through. They will drive you mad, but ignore them. Put some calming music on the stereo, calm down and drive defensively. Keep a cool head and a good idea of whats happening around you, and you'll be fine. Better yet, take the metro.
I'm not sure how or where to use this, and maybe we never will, but I just want to keep it here in case.
Just a side note, but I always try to explain in the comment when I revert what seems to be a good-faith edit which doesn't pass muster for whatever reason. I don't know if the author will read the comments or not, but it's nice to try anyhow. -- Mark 01:34, 25 June 2009 (EDT)
Too many districts?
I think using district numbers was not a great decision choice (as it will be hard to recognize the difference for travellers, and everyone knows names like Champs Elysee), but what strikes me most is the amount of 20 districts. Shouldn't we at least group them, as done in the Chicago article? Globe-trotter 04:02, 11 August 2009 (EDT)
I've removed the tour listings from this article - it was a mercifully short, but still spammy, list of Segway rentals, walking tours, a downloadable guide, and some photography tours. While the lack of a physical address is reason enough for removal, it's also questionable whether any of these listings met the "If a traveler could fulfill the substance of the tour on their own, the tour should not be listed" criteria outlined in Tour. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:04, 19 December 2009 (EST)
So anyway, with our French friend gone, is there a consensus on removing the tour section from Paris, as we have done in Rome? While there is truth to fact that we have policy on tour listings, I don't agree that it supersedes a consensus to remove them from individual destinations where they constitute a problem. --Stefan (sertmann) talk 18:02, 7 January 2010 (EST)
Hi all. I'm in favour of keeping the tour lisings.
I've never had the slightest problem with having the tour listings. Offering organized tours is a legitimate business, and according to our rules it's fine for businesses to list themselves, so long as they don't mess with the competition.
Now, that said, some of the language was touting, and should be edited down to fun and informative, but still these are good-faith contributions and should be considered as such. -- Mark 12:21, 8 January 2010 (EST)
I understand the whole Chateau at Versailles is not in Paris bit, but listing Versailles (22 km from city center) in Get out? Seems a bit extreme to me and might give folks the wrong impression (like "it's a big hassle" which it isn't).Zepppep 14:49, 22 December 2009 (EST)
merge WithChildren into here?
Any objections to merging Paris with children into this article? It's very little content and definitely won't overload the article--while having existing content from there moved to Paris will (in my belief) seriously improve chances that it will get much more attention and be expanded faster. --DenisYurkin 17:42, 3 August 2010 (EDT)
Eat: price ranges and districts
Can anyone watching this article draft an Eat:Price Ranges secion, similar to London#Eat?And while every travel guide suggests to eat where locals are, rather than joining the tourist crowd, can someone lists the most accessible (sub)districts where primarily-locals-eateries can be easily found--which we can mention in this overview article? Elsewhere I saw relevant mentions of Marais, Lain quarter, Sainte-Catherine, around a market on Mouffetard--anything else? --DenisYurkin 17:11, 17 August 2010 (EDT)