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Revision as of 21:58, 1 October 2008 by Peterfitzgerald (Talk | contribs) (Round 3)

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So, there's a city in Southern California also named Ontario. But I figure that the we've got an exceptional case here, so Ontario (California) should possibly be disambiguated, and this one left without a disambiguator. -- Evan 09:01, 5 Nov 2003 (PST)

Why is it exceptional? I always think of the SoCal one when I see Ontario...Majnoona
So, the whole point of not having disambiguators is that for example everyone will expect Paris to be Paris, France. If there are going to be some people who think Ontario (California) when they see Ontario, then we should probably disambig now rather than wait. You're the existence proof that Ontario = Ontario (province) is not instantly obvious to everyone. So, I'm moving the article. -- Evan 13:04, 5 Nov 2003 (PST)
Ontario, California, is to Ontario, Canada, as Paris, Ontario, is to Paris, France. Really, does ANY tourist EVER go to Ontario, California?
I'll have to chime in on this. Ontario is Canada's most populous province by far, whereas before I read this talk page, I'd never even heard about the one in SoCal (and it doesn't have an article here either). Jpatokal 21:24, 8 Sep 2005 (EDT)
I'd also be in favor of moving "Ontario (province)" to just "Ontario". Same for "Delaware (state)". -- Wrh2 22:04, 8 Sep 2005 (EDT)
OK, so, at least Maj seems to have some problems with the difference. Ontario (California) is mostly notable for its airport. --Evan 16:01, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I live less than 30 miles from Ontario California and would have absolutely no problem with giving the province the Ontario page -- aside from the airport, Ontario California just isn't any big deal. It could be argued that someone will always have a problem with saying one city is a bigger deal than another -- if you live near Paris, Texas, the French city isn't such a big deal. A cop once told me I was going the wrong way when I told him I was heading north to Cleveland, despite having my Ohio license in his hand (we were 100 miles from Cleveland, Texas). If you go to Ohio State, you might first think of the Ohio city when you think of Delaware. My understanding is that the "most famous" rule applies when the vast majority of travelers would think of the major destination - Paris (France), Cleveland (Ohio), Delaware (state), or in this case Ontario (province). -- Wrh2 18:01, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)
I'm adding my voice to the consensus that this article should be titled "Ontario" and given an "otheruses" tag. You know, I think of "Holland" as a city on Lake Michigan with a tourism niche, but billions of people think of it as a country in Europe and don't even know that my former home city exists, so I defer to that. Ontario is no Georgia or Washington or Birmingham, with significant general mindshare for both places; Ontario, California is a Paris, Texas or a London, Ontario or a Holland, Michigan (which also has an airport and a mall). - Todd VerBeek 10:12, 24 March 2006 (EST)
Evan and Maj, would you guys be opposed to moving Ontario (province) back to just Ontario? Aside from Maj the consensus seems to be that it meets the "most famous" rule. -- Ryan 12:13, 24 March 2006 (EST)
Yes, I just talked to Maj about it and she's fine with it. --Evan 14:13, 24 March 2006 (EST)
Done. I think this makes sense, thanks Evan. -- Ryan 16:29, 24 March 2006 (EST)
I'm happy to see that the breadcrumb data seems to have been kind of easy to adjust. Nice job! --Evan 12:29, 26 March 2006 (EST)
Doh! I've updated isIn for the top-level regions for Ontario, so hopefully the next time pages are re-generated the children of those regions will have their breadcrumb updated properly. Sorry for the oversight. -- Ryan 12:51, 26 March 2006 (EST)


So, we need a more systematic breakdown of Ontario's regions. And the city list is getting quite long. Any takers? -- Evan 07:04, 12 Nov 2003 (PST)

Yeah, Ontario's usually broken down into somewhere between five and seven `unofficial' regions. With any luck, I'll pick it up over the next few weeks. RickScott 01:29, May 18, 2004 (EDT)
I'm going to take a poke at it. --Evan 12:38, 26 February 2006 (EST)
Thes are the old regions, for comparison/fixing up:

Round 2

Ontario regions map.png

Unfortunately, things in the Ontario hierarchy have only gotten more muddled. Our Ontario guide should be cleaner—from a travel perspective it is basically the majority of Canada. Here is my proposal for an Ontario hierarchy:

  • North Ontario
    • Northwest Ontario
    • Northeast Ontario
  • East Ontario
  • Central Ontario
  • Golden Horseshoe
    • Greater Toronto Area
    • Niagara Area
  • West Ontario

I have not finished working out subregions, I'll add as I explore this more. Also, I will clean up this map into a real wikitravel regions map, but I thought it useful to leave in the municipality borders for the purpose of working out the regions. Any thoughts, objections, advice? --Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:42, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

Hi, Peter. I don't know a huge amount about Ontario regions & counties but from the sources I looked at (Wikipedia's entries on Ontario regions, Tourism Ontario and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs) these regions and the counties assigned to each seem reasonable. The only thing I'd note is the convention here in Ontario (on gov't websites, weather forecasts, etc.) is to refer to the regions as Northern Ontario as opposed to North Ontario, Eastern Ontario instead of East Ontario, etc. "Western Ontario" also seems to be more commonly called "Southwestern Ontario." Otherwise, it looks good to me so far. Titania 22:50, 10 August 2007 (EDT)
Great, I'll change the names according to the conventions you listed, and will get working on a regions map! --Peter Talk 16:46, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

Where would Hamilton (Ontario) fit under this grouping? It doesn't seem to be any mention of it in any of the articles on Greater Toronto Area, Niagara Region, or Southwestern Ontario. JYolkowski 16:27, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Hamilton would definitely fall under the Golden Horseshoe region. The problem is, though, that we haven't actually implemented the new scheme yet ;) --Peter Talk 16:55, 2 November 2007 (EDT)
Actually, I'd put it in the Greater Toronto Area, and call Hamilton the border with Niagara Region. --Peter Talk 00:03, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
Scratch that, I put it in the Niagara Region. I think it could go either way, but the GTA article already leaves it out, so I did the same. But anyway, the regions overhaul is done! --Peter Talk 00:47, 5 August 2008 (EDT)
Cool, thanks. I think it makes more sense putting Hamilton in Niagara than in the GTA too. I wonder though whether it would make sense to rename Niagara Region to something more inclusive as Hamilton isn't part of Niagara Region. I've started a discussion at Talk:Niagara Region#Rename?. JYolkowski 23:18, 24 August 2008 (EDT)

Round 3

I live in Ontario and fell this map is very incorrect. Northern and Easrern Ontario are pretty good, but generally everything south of kingston is reffered to as southern ontario. living here I rarely hear the terms "the golden horseshoe" or "southwestern ontario". its all southern ontario.--Kanata Kid 17:02, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

As someone that lives in "Southern Ontario", I find that the terms "Southwestern Ontario" and "GTA" and the like are used quite a lot, so from my perspective they seem to be reasonable divisions. JYolkowski 17:50, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
Also, regardless of whether they are all Southern Ontario, that area needs to be broken up into smaller regions to keep us from having one heck of a crowded region article. --Peter Talk 17:54, 1 October 2008 (EDT)


Should Kitchener/Waterloo really be two seperate articles? Even for locals, they're usually referenced as the same city, and the Waterloo article is already making reference to Kitchener --Enki42 13:37, 23 Mar 2005 (EST)

Possibly. Have you read Wikitravel:What is an article? If they are 2 cities that have merged or distinct parts (districts) of a larger Kitchener-Waterloo metropolitan area then they may deserve 2 separate articles. If the Waterloo article also sufficiently covers Kitchener as well then make Kitchener a redirect to Waterloo. -- Huttite 05:52, 24 Mar 2005 (EST)
They're more or less the same city, the distinction only exists because they used to be seperate cities. From a travel perspective, it seems bizarre to say that someone would visit Kitchener and not visit Waterloo, therefore I don't think there's any case for distinctness. Kitchener is empty anyway, so I'm going to change the links and update the page later today if no one has any objections. No data will be lost, so I can revert back if someone changes their mind here. --Enki42 07:26, 24 Mar 2005 (EST)
I'd rather we left them as two different cities. Can we maybe make a region article for Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, and have each city have its own article? --Evan 22:21, 10 March 2006 (EST)