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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Northern Ireland"

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==Stay Safe==
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This section is in need of monitoring. I have rewritten the first part of the section. What I replaced was poorly written nonsense that wilfully glossed over the problems that unfortunately still blight our little corner of the world. The statement that the likelihood of Islamic terror attacks in England might outweigh that of dissident attacks in NI is statistically ludicrous and simply not true by any standard.
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Visitors to NI are still anxious about the security situation, and this is a shame. However, we do them no service at all to claim that news accounts about the province are 'sensationalised'. I would argue, in fact, that NI issues are given very little air time on UK news programmes. Also, the notion that security alerts do not affect tourists is a lie - look at recent targeting of Santander branches by bombers and car bombs in Derry/Londonderry that force the evacuation of tourist hotels.
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It is the unfortunate truth that NI is still at a high risk of terror attacks. Tourists need to be aware of this and deserve to know the facts prior to visiting. [[User:Jamezcd|Jamezcd]] 12:53, 22 February 2012 (EST)
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== Social Issues question ==
 
== Social Issues question ==
Where did you find information about the violence against people of East Asian heritage? I can't find any articles supporting this claim or mentioning this incident.
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Where did you find information about the violence against people of East Asian heritage?  I can't find any articles supporting this claim or mentioning this incident.
  
 
== is comprised of ==
 
== is comprised of ==
 
"comprise" means "include". "is comprised of" is an error caused by confusion of "is composed of" and "comprises", which mean about the same thing. The OED has "comprise of" (obsolete), "is comprised in", and even "is comprised upon", but not "is comprised of". It's common, but wrong. See [http://grcpublishing.grc.nasa.gov/WizardArchive/wizard23/quirks.cfm], [http://mrwordman.home.att.net/comprise.html]. You can also say "consists of". -[[User:PierreAbbat|phma]] 12:53, 18 Aug 2004 (EDT)
 
"comprise" means "include". "is comprised of" is an error caused by confusion of "is composed of" and "comprises", which mean about the same thing. The OED has "comprise of" (obsolete), "is comprised in", and even "is comprised upon", but not "is comprised of". It's common, but wrong. See [http://grcpublishing.grc.nasa.gov/WizardArchive/wizard23/quirks.cfm], [http://mrwordman.home.att.net/comprise.html]. You can also say "consists of". -[[User:PierreAbbat|phma]] 12:53, 18 Aug 2004 (EDT)
  
: From the latest online edition of the OED.  
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: From the latest online edition of the OED. 
:"   c. pass. To be composed of, to consist of. 1874 Art of Paper-Making ii. 10 Thirds, or Mixed, are comprised of either or both of the above. 1928 Daily Tel. 17 July 10/7 The voluntary boards of management, comprised..of very zealous and able laymen. 1964 E. PALMER tr. Martinet's Elem. Gen. Ling. i. 28 Many of these words are comprised of monemes. 1970 Nature 27 June 1206/2 Internally, the chloroplast is comprised of a system of flattened membrane sacs."
+
:"    c. pass. To be composed of, to consist of.  1874 Art of Paper-Making ii. 10 Thirds, or Mixed, are comprised of either or both of the above. 1928 Daily Tel. 17 July 10/7 The voluntary boards of management, comprised..of very zealous and able laymen. 1964 E. PALMER tr. Martinet's Elem. Gen. Ling. i. 28 Many of these words are comprised of monemes. 1970 Nature 27 June 1206/2 Internally, the chloroplast is comprised of a system of flattened membrane sacs."
 
: They seem to be under the impression that it is fine for use, and sincedefinitive source of correct English I'm willing to go with that. '[[User:Ben W Bell|Ben W Bell]] 07:04, 19 Aug 2004 (EDT)'
 
: They seem to be under the impression that it is fine for use, and sincedefinitive source of correct English I'm willing to go with that. '[[User:Ben W Bell|Ben W Bell]] 07:04, 19 Aug 2004 (EDT)'
  
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:I agree with the above. The Ulster Banner has absolutely no official status in Northern Ireland, and should not be represented as the flag of that territory. I am unsure why Sertmann has chosen to revert my edit removing the Ulster Banner, and I wish he would discuss it here.[[User:163.1.234.109|163.1.234.109]] 22:08, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
 
:I agree with the above. The Ulster Banner has absolutely no official status in Northern Ireland, and should not be represented as the flag of that territory. I am unsure why Sertmann has chosen to revert my edit removing the Ulster Banner, and I wish he would discuss it here.[[User:163.1.234.109|163.1.234.109]] 22:08, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
  
:: Quickbars add very little in a country article, and add even less to these provincal articles. Just about everyhing on the quickbar is the same as that for the [[United Kingdom|UK]], and the couple of items that vary are at best sloppy, and at worst wrong. The flag is wrong, the government is unenlightening, and the language is unhelpful (Although I am keen to brush up my ''Ulster Scot''). I'm in favour of ditching the whole quickbar. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 22:23, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
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:: Quickbars add very little in a country article, and add even less to these provincal articles.  Just about everyhing on the quickbar is the same as that for the [[United Kingdom|UK]], and the couple of items that vary are at best sloppy, and at worst wrong.  The flag is wrong, the government is unenlightening, and the language is unhelpful (Although I am keen to brush up my ''Ulster Scot'').  I'm in favour of ditching the whole quickbar.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 22:23, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
  
 
:::Now that you mention it, I'd also be in favor of this--at least for sub-state units. I know the analogy with the UK home nations isn't a very good one, but I think it's instructive that neither Canadian provinces nor U.S. states have the sidebar. It's hard to see how this particular collection of miscellaneous facts really helps the traveller; the whole thing seems more suited to Wikipedia than Wikitravel.[[User:163.1.234.109|163.1.234.109]] 14:08, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
 
:::Now that you mention it, I'd also be in favor of this--at least for sub-state units. I know the analogy with the UK home nations isn't a very good one, but I think it's instructive that neither Canadian provinces nor U.S. states have the sidebar. It's hard to see how this particular collection of miscellaneous facts really helps the traveller; the whole thing seems more suited to Wikipedia than Wikitravel.[[User:163.1.234.109|163.1.234.109]] 14:08, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
  
::::I fully support the proposal to strip this article of its quickbar, and suggest bringing up this topic for the other home nations at [[Talk:United Kingdom]]. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:27, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
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::::I fully support the proposal to strip this article of its quickbar, and suggest bringing up this topic for the other home nations at [[Talk:United Kingdom]].  --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 14:27, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
  
 
::::: While I don't object to the removal of the quickboxes for the home nations, let me just say on the account of the Ulster banner, that my reason for reverting is we don't need to take the precautions on this matter that, say, Wikipedia does - I don't want to speak against someone obviously more knowledgeable on the matter than I am - But in Denmark, it ''is'' the de facto flag of Northern Ireland when we compete against Northern Irish sporting teams etc. and even [http://www.fifa.com/associations/association%3Dnir/ FIFA] uses it too, hence my reversions - but I do tend to do those a bit blindfolded for anonymous edits on guides like [[Northern Ireland]], [[Catalonia]] and [[Israel]]. Anyway, now that I got an explanation, please feel free to revert it back. --[[User:Sertmann|Stefan (sertmann)]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Sertmann|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:47, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
 
::::: While I don't object to the removal of the quickboxes for the home nations, let me just say on the account of the Ulster banner, that my reason for reverting is we don't need to take the precautions on this matter that, say, Wikipedia does - I don't want to speak against someone obviously more knowledgeable on the matter than I am - But in Denmark, it ''is'' the de facto flag of Northern Ireland when we compete against Northern Irish sporting teams etc. and even [http://www.fifa.com/associations/association%3Dnir/ FIFA] uses it too, hence my reversions - but I do tend to do those a bit blindfolded for anonymous edits on guides like [[Northern Ireland]], [[Catalonia]] and [[Israel]]. Anyway, now that I got an explanation, please feel free to revert it back. --[[User:Sertmann|Stefan (sertmann)]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Sertmann|Talk]]</sup></small> 15:47, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
  
:::::: After making sure all the info was elsewhere in the article, I removed the quickbar. Lets see if the move gets acceptance before moving onto the relatively bigger targets of the other UK provinces. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 19:36, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
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:::::: After making sure all the info was elsewhere in the article, I removed the quickbar.  Lets see if the move gets acceptance before moving onto the relatively bigger targets of the other UK provinces.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 19:36, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
  
 
== Naming ==
 
== Naming ==
  
I notice we are gathering a ''Naming'' section again here. I'll make the point that no visitor to Northern Ireland is going to go there and call it the ''six counties'' - that is a phrasing reserved for those who are knowledgeable enough to know the story. Neither is anyone likely to refer to Britain as ''the mainland'' unless they are deliberately making a point. Last time this complex series of instructions was whittled down to the fact that visitors should just refer to the place as ''Northern Ireland'' - nice and simple. --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 17:27, 5 December 2011 (EST)
+
I notice we are gathering a ''Naming'' section again here.  I'll make the point that no visitor to Northern Ireland is going to go there and call it the ''six counties'' - that is a phrasing reserved for those who are knowledgeable enough to know the story.  Neither is anyone likely to refer to Britain as ''the mainland'' unless they are deliberately making a point.  Last time this complex series of instructions was whittled down to the fact that visitors should just refer to the place as ''Northern Ireland'' - nice and simple.  --[[User:Inas|Inas]] 17:27, 5 December 2011 (EST)

Latest revision as of 17:57, 22 February 2012

Stay Safe[edit]

This section is in need of monitoring. I have rewritten the first part of the section. What I replaced was poorly written nonsense that wilfully glossed over the problems that unfortunately still blight our little corner of the world. The statement that the likelihood of Islamic terror attacks in England might outweigh that of dissident attacks in NI is statistically ludicrous and simply not true by any standard.

Visitors to NI are still anxious about the security situation, and this is a shame. However, we do them no service at all to claim that news accounts about the province are 'sensationalised'. I would argue, in fact, that NI issues are given very little air time on UK news programmes. Also, the notion that security alerts do not affect tourists is a lie - look at recent targeting of Santander branches by bombers and car bombs in Derry/Londonderry that force the evacuation of tourist hotels.

It is the unfortunate truth that NI is still at a high risk of terror attacks. Tourists need to be aware of this and deserve to know the facts prior to visiting. Jamezcd 12:53, 22 February 2012 (EST)

Social Issues question[edit]

Where did you find information about the violence against people of East Asian heritage?  I can't find any articles supporting this claim or mentioning this incident.

is comprised of[edit]

"comprise" means "include". "is comprised of" is an error caused by confusion of "is composed of" and "comprises", which mean about the same thing. The OED has "comprise of" (obsolete), "is comprised in", and even "is comprised upon", but not "is comprised of". It's common, but wrong. See [1], [2]. You can also say "consists of". -phma 12:53, 18 Aug 2004 (EDT)

From the latest online edition of the OED. 
"    c. pass. To be composed of, to consist of.  1874 Art of Paper-Making ii. 10 Thirds, or Mixed, are comprised of either or both of the above. 1928 Daily Tel. 17 July 10/7 The voluntary boards of management, comprised..of very zealous and able laymen. 1964 E. PALMER tr. Martinet's Elem. Gen. Ling. i. 28 Many of these words are comprised of monemes. 1970 Nature 27 June 1206/2 Internally, the chloroplast is comprised of a system of flattened membrane sacs."
They seem to be under the impression that it is fine for use, and sincedefinitive source of correct English I'm willing to go with that. 'Ben W Bell 07:04, 19 Aug 2004 (EDT)'

I think that you should put a red hand of Ulster flag rather than the Union Jack as the flag of Northern Ireland, and maybe a smaller image of the Union Jack beside it??

Flag issue[edit]

The Red Hand flag is not an official banner for Northern Ireland. Perhaps a Union Jack would be better?

  • The 'Ulster Banner' (St George's cross with red hand in six pointed star) stopped being the official flag in Northern Ireland in 1973, therefore the only flag of Northern Ireland is that of the UK - the Union Jack. If the Ulster Banner is shown then so should the Irish tricolour as neither represent it, but represent the two main communities.
I agree with the above. The Ulster Banner has absolutely no official status in Northern Ireland, and should not be represented as the flag of that territory. I am unsure why Sertmann has chosen to revert my edit removing the Ulster Banner, and I wish he would discuss it here.163.1.234.109 22:08, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
Quickbars add very little in a country article, and add even less to these provincal articles.  Just about everyhing on the quickbar is the same as that for the UK, and the couple of items that vary are at best sloppy, and at worst wrong.  The flag is wrong, the government is unenlightening, and the language is unhelpful (Although I am keen to brush up my Ulster Scot).  I'm in favour of ditching the whole quickbar.  --Inas 22:23, 8 March 2009 (EDT)
Now that you mention it, I'd also be in favor of this--at least for sub-state units. I know the analogy with the UK home nations isn't a very good one, but I think it's instructive that neither Canadian provinces nor U.S. states have the sidebar. It's hard to see how this particular collection of miscellaneous facts really helps the traveller; the whole thing seems more suited to Wikipedia than Wikitravel.163.1.234.109 14:08, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
I fully support the proposal to strip this article of its quickbar, and suggest bringing up this topic for the other home nations at Talk:United Kingdom.  --Peter Talk 14:27, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
While I don't object to the removal of the quickboxes for the home nations, let me just say on the account of the Ulster banner, that my reason for reverting is we don't need to take the precautions on this matter that, say, Wikipedia does - I don't want to speak against someone obviously more knowledgeable on the matter than I am - But in Denmark, it is the de facto flag of Northern Ireland when we compete against Northern Irish sporting teams etc. and even FIFA uses it too, hence my reversions - but I do tend to do those a bit blindfolded for anonymous edits on guides like Northern Ireland, Catalonia and Israel. Anyway, now that I got an explanation, please feel free to revert it back. --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 15:47, 9 March 2009 (EDT)
After making sure all the info was elsewhere in the article, I removed the quickbar.  Lets see if the move gets acceptance before moving onto the relatively bigger targets of the other UK provinces.  --Inas 19:36, 9 March 2009 (EDT)

Naming[edit]

I notice we are gathering a Naming section again here.  I'll make the point that no visitor to Northern Ireland is going to go there and call it the six counties - that is a phrasing reserved for those who are knowledgeable enough to know the story.  Neither is anyone likely to refer to Britain as the mainland unless they are deliberately making a point.  Last time this complex series of instructions was whittled down to the fact that visitors should just refer to the place as Northern Ireland - nice and simple.  --Inas 17:27, 5 December 2011 (EST)

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