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Latest revision as of 08:08, 19 March 2011

This article was the Collaboration of the week between 05 September 2006 and 11 September 2006.


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Can Moscow be divided into districts?[edit]

I would recommend one for Central Moscow, using either the Garden Ring, or the Boulevard Ring' as its boundry. The rest of the city could be divided into Northern, Eastern, Western, and Southern sections. Everything outside the Outer Moscow Ring Road could be described in the Get Out section.user:johnsemlak

Moscow is definitely a huge city, so if you're willing to put in the effort to make the districts presentable, then go ahead. But the current Moscow article is still quite limited and lot more info, esp. nuts'n'bolts stuff like restaurants and hotels, is needed. Jpatokal 21:03, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)
I have just linked to a separate article about Kolomenskoye. I think there is now a need to make districts for Moscow. The initial suggestion was:
Any thoughts?-- Huttite 21:27, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)

In my belief, we have too little content right now for districtifying; I would refer here to "when [not] to districtify" recommendations we have recently outlined. --DenisYurkin 02:46, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Districts[edit]

For the upcoming CoTW for Moscow here is the Wikipedia'sMoscow district article. It also has a nice map of Moscow's districts, which is dual licensed. - Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:10, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

This doesn't look like a good map for defining district borders, however: it's quite unclear which street each border line goes through. --DenisYurkin 17:00, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
Actually, most of the linked rayony do define street borders. But would these administrative divisions make for good travel regions of Moscow? Should the outer okruga be combined in some way? And I presume that the 1 okrug should also be divided into several Central Moscow districts, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. I'm not suggesting that we divide up the city yet, since there are so few listings in the article, but it would be nice to come up with a preparatory hierarchy. --Peter Talk 09:47, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
I can only see borders for rayons in Central okrug, and most of rayon (and okrug) articles not written yet. Am I missing something? --DenisYurkin 11:48, 5 October 2008 (EDT)
Perhaps each rayon of the central okrug should get its own article? Moscow is such an enormous city—I think it would be fine to have some 20 districts, honestly. --Peter Talk 09:49, 2 October 2008 (EDT)
I think we can start with splitting into okruga, and many months (or even years) after that we'll have enough content for further splitting Central okrug into subdistricts. --DenisYurkin 11:48, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Actually on splitting Moscow to districts I'd recommend against going along administrative okrugs, since they are not going right along splitting the city for tourict interests. I'd recommend how I see splitting Moscow, though it's more for discussion.

I think, that the main division would be Central Moscow and Outer Moscow, and it's unclear, if further division is necessary. The Center has more sights and attractions, and as such, it is pretty good defined by Third Transport Ring (TTK). Further division, if there will be enough material, may go along radial ways, something like this: Kremlin and Kitai-Gorod; Ostogenka and Lugniki; Arbat and Kutuzovskii prospect; Tverskaya street; North of Center (Tsvetnoi boulevard, Dostoevskii Theater, Olimpiiskii); Chistye prudy and Taganka; Three Railway Station square, Kurskii Railway Station and Baumanskii district; Zamoskvorechje and Paveletskii Railway Station; Gorky park and Leninskii prospekt.

Outer Moscow (outside TTK) is almost completely a sleeper district, there are not so much sights, so probably no division would be a good idea. If ever a division idea comes up though, I'd recommend using natural transport bariers and not administrative. As such, following subdivisions may come later: North-East and North of Moscow (from Losiniy Ostrov (good as a part itself) to roughly following line: Leningrad railway - Dubki park - some 8th of March streets); North-West - to Moskva-River; West - South-West - South - to Paveletskii railway (large interconnected latest sleeper region with fewer sights); South-East - to Moskva-River (with Tsaritsyno and Kolomenskoye); East - the rest.95.27.174.52 11:54, 12 February 2011 (EST)

All interesting suggestions. I don't think there is any big rush to create a lot of divisions for the article, since content remains a little light, but who knows—districting might actually attract more contributions (I actually find it a little hard to contribute to such a broad article as (Central Moscow"). In any ultimate district scheme, I think it would be appropriate for multiple central district divisions as well as outer district divisions. Our contributors on Wikitravel/ru have worked out a basic districts scheme (see discussion), which breaks down the central district into 12, and breaks down the outer regions in a manner rather similar to what you are suggesting, leaving 8 total. There is a surprising amount to see even in the outer districts, and with enough knowledgeable contributors, we could actually fill out such articles into nice guides (and this would leave our printed-guide competition in the dust)—take a look at what User:Digr did with the Southwest section of the city.
I don't think the Russian version has really nailed down those central district boundaries, but I'd love to make a map if we could agree upon them. --Peter Talk 18:58, 15 February 2011 (EST)

Link to guide[edit]

I removed the following from the article as I don't believe it complies with Wikitravel:External links. *Moscow hotel guide OldPine 06:55, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

Racism in Moscow[edit]

Can anyone add that to the list? It would be wise to know about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.102.16.174 (talkcontribs)

What do you mean specifically? --DenisYurkin 07:43, 10 June 2007 (EDT)
I mean that racism seems to be thriving in Moscow. It's good to put up an advice about it, or a warning, or something.
My Moscow knowledge is getting a bit dated (4 years), but my impression has usually been that racism is significantly less of a problem in Moscow relative to the rest of Russia. Perhaps we could include a note in the "stay safe" section regarding what non-white travelers and travelers who look like they are from the Caucasus should know, emphasizing the differences between Moscow and the rest of Russia? I'm not knowledgeable enough myself to do this well, but perhaps you have a better handle on it. Please feel free to plunge forward and edit the section yourself! --Peterfitzgerald Talk 13:49, 11 June 2007 (EDT)
I have never been to any city in Russia, let alone Moscow.  :) This is why I wrote it as a suggestion, not as a contribution, since I will admit that I do not have concrete knowledge of the city. I was hoping that someone who has already been there could give some contribution to it. And just so future readers would now, this is not a Russophobic rant. I am actually quite the Russophile and I enjoy learning Russian. I would love to visit the city one day, but I hope someone who has been there could give an insight into the issue so that those who travel there (to whom this issue is a concern) can take precautionary measures. Thanks again!74.102.16.174 11:01, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
Hi all. Has anyone been to Moscow recently and felt that racism was still rampant? Especially amongst non white people? Would like to know whether the following paragraph should stay or be deleted:

Non-white people should be especially vigilant since violent attacks have occurred, and most minorities are likely to be stopped for document checks by the police.

--MarinaK 14:27, 13 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Still true as far as I know. Jpatokal 02:57, 14 June 2008 (EDT)
Hi There! Just a small contribution to the talk: I am a 24 yr old spaniard/scotsman currently studying and working in Moscow. Although I am white, I look distinctly non-russian and could easily pass for someone from the Caucasus. I have been here for 7 months now and have to say I have seen not a trace of the agressive racism which many of us had been led to believe was rampant in Russia. On the contrary: both young and old have proven extremely friendly and even excited to chat to foreigners. What I have noticed, however, is a somewhat different attitude to the question of race/ethnicity than in the UK; for instance: A non-white family moves to Russia. Two generations later, their grandchildren will still be deemed "non-russian" just because of their appearence. People are automatically classified by the way they look, although it doesn't mean they are marginalised. Just look at the map of Russia. The vast majority of those millions do not conform to the stereotypical image of a white russian, so consequently they are "ne-russkiye"...they just happen to have a Russian passport. A little bit puzzling, you are right. One has to mention that mildly racist comments are quite acceptable in polite society here, some of which could be real 'gasp-provokers' in the UK. However, I'd like to reassert that it is simply a question of different values and attitudes. Russians do not live in the same multicoloured society that we celebrate in the UK or the US. Call it racist if you please. I don't. Hope I've helped! Regards, Finn McLafferty, Moscow. (11/3/09)

Moscow map[edit]

This is a pretty cool map of Moscow that someone added to the page. Unfortunately, it definitely runs afoul of our Wikitravel:External links policy, but I thought I would dump it here as it may be useful to people working on this article. --Peter Talk 12:39, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Mi Piace restaurants[edit]

Following the removal of this piece:

MI PIACE is a great salad and pizza restaurant in Moscow. Best pizza in Moscow.

This restaurant chain has really a solid reputation for its cuisine among locals, even despite its prices. I would vote that we keep it in some form; or at least discuss why we shouldn't. --DenisYurkin 02:42, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

My feeling is that we are moving towards taking a slightly harder line with very incomplete listings. This one was shouting and had no address, so it wasn't very useful for travelers. But if you know the address, please do add it back in. --Peter Talk 03:19, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
Yes, I reverted it for the reasons Peter described - also because it was added to Splurge, which seemed out of place for a pizza and salad restaurant. If you can make the listing more useful for travelers, then please add it to the article. Gorilla Jones 07:48, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
I plunged forward with all I know; will update it one day if I visit the place myself. Can't promise it's the best place in something, so I don't mention it. --DenisYurkin 15:41, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
Thanks, Denis! Gorilla Jones 17:38, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Major rewrite[edit]

I edited the article, commenting out some of the bullshit. Might come back and add places to eat if anyone's interested. This article doesn't seem to get a lot of attention. Hello! Anyone there?--Apoivre 00:03, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Your edit looks good -- more information is always welcome! Jpatokal 00:29, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
Nice to see a familiar handle from FT. Is this to be a one-man mission to make a good guide to Moscow or may I hope someone will come along and help me with it?--Apoivre 01:07, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
You can hope, but I'm afraid I won't be joining you, as I haven't even been to Moscow. But the article's already been worked on by several dozen people, so it's just a matter of time until somebody else shows up. Jpatokal 02:02, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
I'd strongly recommend to edit the passage concerning bribing the police (Safety section) - it's a crime, naturally, to bribe a police officer. Actually, if you are not involved in an illegal activity, there's a little chance to get arrested. Not less than in N.Y., for example. Just try to dial you embassy hotline (if any) or you russian-speaking friend or colleague. If you've got entry visa, there's nothing to worry about. Just stay calm: panic (inspired by biases, huh) is very suspicious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.178.98.242 (talkcontribs)

Pushkin cafe and restaurant[edit]

Apoivre, you are right that the mansion is fake--but why you decided to remove the piece on food quality there? If you consider a cafe just a great place to find a genuine Russian food, not a Tsatist-times cusine, it is really good, and it is really very much of the same quality you could find at your Russian friend's babushka (grandma) in the country :-) --DenisYurkin 07:49, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

In the meanwhile I tried to fit both opinions in a single review, see Moscow#Pushkin. --DenisYurkin 13:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

individual opinions on controversial topics[edit]

We frequently see individual opinions and observations added by wikitravelers that in most cases are just removed by admins without any trace left in the article. However, I believe that such opinions should be saved for later discussion and better wording of controversial topics.

Wait for some examples to get an idea of what I mean by this. --DenisYurkin 15:00, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

I understand what you're saying, but I don't see much, if any, usable information in either of those comments. Is the Muscovite shwarma any more dangerous than the pelmeny? If you find it difficult to use the subway if you don't speak Russian, will a taxi or bus be any easier? Jpatokal 04:15, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

shawarma[edit]

One shall be advised against risking a shawarma (sold on every second corner), though. Anyway, in Russia it has little in common with the Mediterranian namesake.

http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Moscow&curid=4172&diff=836843&oldid=834393&rcid=795749


metro[edit]

I have used almost ever major city in the world's metro/subways and Moscow is by far the worst I have ever encountered. The cars work and the stations are not crubbling but if you do not have a Russian speaker stay far away from Moscow's metro/subways. Maps are a joke and do not help since they are wrong, the numbers and colors are wrong, unless you read the language you will never find your way, the ticket and subway workers are rude and none speak English, most of the other riders are rude and do not want to be bothered - they will not even try to help you. You have been warned, stay far away from Moscow's subways.

http://wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Moscow&diff=prev&oldid=824535


banya rewrite[edit]

I attempted to rewrite a paragraph on banyas, but not sure my edition reflects all the considerations I have on the original version [1]:

  • in Moscow, banya is most popular among people at the age of 40 and up; younger people (especially office workers) are less frequent among banya lovers
  • anyway, not many Moscovites frequent banyas, not to say visit them every week
  • Moscow has city banyas (and maybe even have some of the best city banyas in Russia), but it's private, rural banyas in a countryside that is really must-try when you visit Russia--and they can never be found in Moscow or even its nearest suburbs

Another thing to add is that younger people give more favour to saunas. but I'm not sure if it makes sense to recommend to travelers, as they have nothing special if you compare to Finland and Sweden.

Any ideas on what of the above can be incorporated to the article, and how, would be appreciated. --DenisYurkin 16:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

When districting...[edit]

Remember that there is some content for Moscow/South hidden at the Kolomenskoye redirect page. --Peter Talk 15:29, 16 December 2009 (EST)


Dispose Bodily Wastes[edit]

This section looks like it put here by a troll. Should it be removed? --80.47.233.95 12:43, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

Thanks, I've pulled that section. If any of the information in there was valid/relevant it can be re-worked into the main article, rather than called out into its own top-level section. -- Ryan • (talk) • 13:10, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

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