:: Kindly talk about prospects of districting the city, to reduce the volume of the article.- KISH 09:10, 25 May 2010 (IST)
:: Kindly talk about prospects of districting the city, to reduce the volume of the article.- KISH 09:10, 25 May 2010 (IST)
Revision as of 13:54, 1 December 2012
As we're still using Madras for Chennai and Bombay for Mumbai, I suspect this page should be moved to Cochin, or has "Kochi" been established as the most frequently used name in the traveller's community? Akubra 16:28, 6 Apr 2004 (EDT)
I found this to be quite a problem when traveling around India (particularly travelling by train). Most towns or cities seem to have two or more names which are used interchangeably by the locals.
I'd like to second moving this to Cochin — partly to disambiguate from Japan's Kochi prefecture on the island of Shikoku. Jpatokal
Unlike Madras and Bombay, Kochi was always called as Kochi by people of Keralam, so comparison to Madras and Bombay is not right. Personally I dont mind moving to name cochin. But what Jpatokal done is vandalism by changing content of the page. -bijee
Huh? Either we call it Cochin or Kochi, but not both in the same article! Jpatokal 12:37, 18 Oct 2004 (EDT)
So I corrected it to Kochi -Bijee
If we can agree on Kochi (and this needs a few more opinions), the article should be moved to "Kochi (India)" since there is also a Japanese Kochi. Jpatokal 22:37, 18 Oct 2004 (EDT)
"Kochi (India)" is again disambigus as Current Kochi is formed by unification of Old Kochi City and Ernakulam City. So better option will be moving to Kochi-Ernakulam. Also pl. move Japanese Kochi to Kochi prefecture then create a disambiguation page like wikipedia:Kochi -Bijee
Kochi is both a prefecture and a city in Japan. "Kochi-Ernakulam" is not an option because we have to use the most common name of the city. Jpatokal 02:56, 19 Oct 2004 (EDT)
Then why not keep your page at "Kochi (Japan)" and original page at Kochi with a link to "Kochi (Japan)" -Bijee
Uhhhh, is Kochi a city or a region or both? From reading the page it seems to jump around from talking about districts / regions / towns-within-towns and so on. Quit a muddle. I'll try and work on it, but anyone with actual knowledge of the ara please jump in! Majnoona 14:38, 13 Feb 2006 (EST)
should have a disambiguation page
Kochi which is the common name for this town takes us to Kochi in Japan. I think there should be a disambiguation page.
wow, what a mess!
As I understand it, Kochi is a city, which encompasses Ernakulam, Ft. Cochin and the other nearby islands. I spent a few months in the area earlier this year, and this seems to be pretty standard... it is also the way it's described in the popular guidebooks such as LP... Cacahuate 09:34, 22 October 2006 (EDT)
Archived VfD for Kochi (Kerala)
Delete: duplication of Cochin, maybe copied from Cochin. -- Tatata 09:13, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
Shouldn't it be redirected then? ChubbyWimbus 09:52, 16 May 2009 (EDT)
Yes, it should be redirected. Pashley 01:39, 1 June 2009 (EDT)
Out of curiosity, why is it "Cochin" on Wikitravel when the city is more widely known as Kochi? Even on the article itself, it is referred to as Kochi everywhere except as its page name. It seems like Cochin should redirect to Kochi. ChubbyWimbus 11:02, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
Actually, the up-to-date name is Kochi . Anyone against a reverse redirect? ChubbyWimbus 19:47, 27 June 2009 (EDT)
This has been brought up numerous times on this talk page and I brought it up on the vote for deletion, but since it was archived without a decision being reached, I'd like to bring this one up again:
Isn't "Cochin" the old and outdated name for this city?
Isn't "Kochi" both the most common reference to this city, as well as the actual name of the city (hence the most common way to refer to it)?
The initial discussion of this doesn't make any sense. It was dismissed because the "name is taken" by the Japanese city, but some cities do have the same name. The Indian city is by far better known than the Japanese city, but that doesn't matter. Why can't they both be allowed to exist under their actual names?
If the problem is simply that no one wants to take the time to move the content, I'll offer to do it myself. The disambiguation page is already there. It'd be nice to address this directly rather than continuously ignoring or glossing over it. ChubbyWimbus 22:11, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
I was actually going to move Cochin to Kochi (Kerala) when I closed the VfD, but then I noticed that Cacahuate had already redirected it the other way (on the same day the article was nommed, actually). It would be fairly simple to delete the redirect and move Cochin if that's what we want to do. LtPowers 08:12, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
OK I did the renaming. The assumption is that Kochi did not have any useful history, which seems to be the case. There are many instances of "Cochin" through the article that need to be replaced. I will get to them, but if anyone wants to have a go, please feel free. — Ravikiran 09:12, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
OK done. Looks like lots of hotels, etc. still have Cochin in their name, so they stay. — Ravikiran 09:20, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
I don't understand if I'm reading a travel guide or a history book? Too much information :P. -SnappyHip 22:50, 9 March 2010 (GST)
Hospital info is potentially useful, but is it necessary to list Blood Banks? Shep 17:04, 26 March 2010 (EDT)
Do we really need sixteen jewelry stores? Given the already ridiculously long Buy section, I think we can get by with one or two, max. Texugo 03:28, 27 March 2010 (EDT)
No we don't. This article is getting very unwieldy and is out of control just as the Kerala state article became. Going back to correct all of this later is a huge amount of work as I have found with Kerala.--Burmesedays 03:31, 27 March 2010 (EDT)
Paul Alukkas Jewellery, opposite Maharaja`s College Stadium, MG Road. A large jeweller, featuring gold, diamond and silver collections.
Malabar Gold, Jewel Junction, Opposite Grand Hotel, MG Road. An extensive gold, platinum and diamond collection as well a latest international brand watches.
Joy Alukkas, Alukkas Wedding Center, Marine Drive. An international chain which originated in Kochi.
Bhima Jewels, Jewel Junction, MG Road. A traditional jeweller with a large collection of precious stones and a diamond gallery.
Josco Jewellers, North End, MG Road. Offers whole-sale rates for bulk purchases. Spread over 4 storeys, it has different levels for diamond, silver and platinum collections.
Tanishq Jewellers, Padma Junction, MG Road. A national brand owned by the TATA group, this jeweller is famous for its unique exclusive patented jewel designs, featuring in-house crafted Mughal, Rajasthani and Kerala designs.
Sunny Diamonds, Rajaji Road (Chittoor Road area). A celebrated diamond house, featuring original Belgian diamonds, with international warranties. It also has one of the largest De Beers diamond collections in Kochi.
D'Damas, KPCC Junction, MG Road. A reputed national chain, one of the oldest diamond traders in India. It features a large collection of in-house branded diamond jewellery.
I cut the above listings, leaving four in the article. Two of them I chose because they have more complete details, and two of them are more or less random. Feel free to swap some back and forth if you have personal knowledge of the shops, but please let's not go back up to a full directory of jewelers. Texugo 11:07, 7 April 2010 (EDT)
Nominations for Guide status
I am nominating Kochi page for guide status, whats your opinions, Buddies?- Kish 19:56, 31 March 2010 (IST)
I'm going to say "maybe not yet". The See and Do sections are both almost completely devoid of addresses, phone number, websites, etc. Plus, there are still large chunks of text which contain numerous grammar errors. Texugo 10:18, 31 March 2010 (EDT)
You don't really need to nominate for guide status, you can just change it. However, in this case I think it would be changed right back to usable again. Texugo hits most of the issues above. The biggest for me are:
the article is stylistically and grammatically poor,
some sections are way, way too long
there are almost no listings templates used throughout
the see and do sections lack addresses (or directions), contact details etc
This will be worked through in time (as is happening with Kerala, which is about half done)), and I think Kochi will be up to guide standard after that. --Burmesedays 10:40, 31 March 2010 (EDT)
After a lot of editing by Texugo and myself, it is getting there. The Buy, Eat and Drink sections still need a lot more editing, but the rest is in decent shape now I think.--Burmesedays 13:29, 3 April 2010 (EDT)
Generic fast food outlets
I moved these out of the article. I sugggest two sentences is enough, and these listings are a waste of space, except perhaps the uniquely Kochi establishments. --Burmesedays 02:27, 1 April 2010 (EDT)
K.R Chicken, Palarivattom Junction; Vytilla Junction; Kadavanthara Junction; Thevara and Banerjee Road. Found in many prominent junctions, KR Hot Chicken is very famous Kochinites. Its fast, delicious and answer to International chains like KFC Budget.
Chic King, KPCC Junction-MG Road; Civil Lines-Palarivattom; Byepass Junction-Aluva. It looks, smells and tastes pretty much more better than KFC. This is a global fast food chain based in Dubai. It has good Chicken Meals, Burger and Wraps combos at very moderate pricing. Extremely popular among youngsters Normal.
Marry Brown Express, Food court, Bay Pride Mall, Marine Drive. Famous Malayasian Food chain, its famous for its burgers, wraps, combos and hot chicken.Normal.
China Town, Food court, Bay Pride Mall, Marine Drive. Very tasty fast Chinese food. Normal.
Luciya’s Food Court, Civil Lanes, Near Padivattom Junction, Palarivattom Area. It comprises of 5 Food outlets, Malabar, Tandoori, Thai, Burgerworld and Juicy Bites. The Thai, is one of the authentic thai food stalls in Kochi, which is extremely popular Normal.
KFC, Gold Souk Grande’, NH Byepass Road, Vytilla. The World famous Col.Sander’s Original and Hot crispy Chicken is here. However, it offers Indianized version, rather than International recipes. The Masalader Chicken Wings is the most tastiest ones and really unique.Normal.
Arabian Treat, Food Circle-Oberon Mall and Food Circle- Manorama Junction, SA Road. The most fabulous Arabian eatery in the town, providing really good world-class arabic cuisine. Lots of grill options and large quantity.Normal.
Papa's Milano, Food Circle-Oberon Mall and Food Circle- Manorama Junction, SA Road. Italian styled Subs and Pizzas, on model of Subway, where you can get custom-made pizzas, pastas and subs of your choice and ingredient. It has many good range of pizza options and all are custom-made right in front of your eyes. Normal.
Noodle King, Food Circle-Oberon Mall and Food Circle- Manorama Junction, SA Road. A popular Indian food chain company that offers the best of Oriental food, with lots of Indo-Chinese-Thai options. String Noodles and Crispy Chickens are some of the signature food worth to try.Normal.
Pizza Hut, South Railway Junction- Between Jos Jn and Chitoor Road South Jn, Hotel Joys. 11:00 am to 11:00 pm. World famous PIZZA HUT, is a hot spot among young generation. Lots of Indianized Pizza options along with World pizzas. The advantage is that, the menu changes on every 6 months, with more new new items and really cost effective if going together with friends or family. Very good Pastas and Arabic stylized pizza wraps. Expensive if for individual, whereas highly cost effective if its more than 4 members. Lots of side options sightly expensive.
Domino's Pizza, Near HDFC bank- Atlantis Junction-Ravipuram side of MG Road. 11:00 am to 11:00 pm. World famous Domino's, is a hot spot among young generation. Good Pizzas, but only international varieties. But good and good for individual option, as individually wise it won't cost when compared to Pizza Hut. sightly expensive.
Bimbis Self Serve, Jos Junction MG road; Menaka Marine drive. Bimbis is a household name in Kochi City. Very famous for its Fast Self serve food options. It has 2 branches. One located in Jos Junction is the largest and the other in Menaka in Marine Drive. The Self Serve is pure veg restaurant offering fast North Indian and South Indian options. Best for backpackers and budget tourists. Bimbis is very famous for its North Indian sweets as well as South Indian. The Jaleebis is very unique and most tastier.
Pai Dosas, Opposite Karalkada, MG Road (Just opposite side of TD Temple Gate in MG Road, Near Kavitha). 07:30 PM-6:00 AM. One of the traditional Fast food trademark of Kochi, that holds the record of having largest variety of Dosas (61 Varieties) in Veg and Non Veg options. Its a very popular night time eatery, that works till early morning, serving really unique dosas. The taste is something unique, which can't be experienced anywhere. You can also custom-design your favourite dosas and stuff with almost every imaginable eligible item. Ideal for budget tourists, as prices are damn cheap.
We don't need to know every bus stop of every route. I'm putting this here, and hopefully someone can make a single short paragraph or so of what is useful to the traveller. Texugo 00:27, 3 April 2010 (EDT)
The main bus routes are
ROUTE 1- ALUVA-FORT COCHIN
Many key routes that pass through the city (from ALUVA etc to Fort Kochi/Thevara Jn etc) will have the following route/stops
Kalamassery Apollo Junction
South Kalamassery Junction- (Closest point to go Cochin University)
Edapally Toll Gate (Its from here NH Byepass road starts)
Kaloor (interchange for Long Distance Private Bus Services for Kottayam, Palai, Changanacheri, Mundakayam, Erumeli, Pathanamthitha etc.& night services towads Calicut, Kannur, Wayanad)
Lissie Jn (Some Private Long Distance Luxury Bus Operators)
Town Hall (Closest point to Ernakulam Town (North) Station)
Kacheripady Jn (KSRTC State Transport Bus Stand - 1 km away & MG Road Start)
Some buses split here to take a turn towards left to proceed to Chittoor Road. Some buses take the next left turn from PNVM Junction to enter into MG Road and proceed towards Thevera thro' MG Road. However most of the buses continue their journey from Kacheripady thro' the main Banerjee Road to,
High Court Junction (KSINC Boat Jetty for Ferry to Vypeen, Mulavukad, Panambukadu, Ochanthurth, Murikkumpadam & Bolgatty. Align here to catch reverse Route 3 bus operated by private ordinary Bus Services to Vypeen,Cherai Beach,Munabam,North Paravur,Kodungallur via Goshree Bridges starts from here)
Menaka Junction (Those who need to go to South Railway station or Tripunithara side, to catch Route 2 Bus, must align here and catch bus Route 2 bus from first bus stand in Menaka)
South Area- MG Road (Nearest to South Railway Station)
Atlantis Junction (Align, if you have to catch Route 4 buses)
Willington Island- Naval Base Stop
Thoppumpaddy Main stand
Fort Cochin- Terminus
ROUTE 2, MENAKA-THRIPUNITHARA
There are many buses start from Aluva, serving on previous route (Route 1, from Aluva) till Menaka and restart in following order.
Chittoor Road Junction
South Bus Stand (the major bus stand just 100 mtrs from South Railway station)
GCDA Kochu Kadavanthara Stop
Vytilla Bus Stand (a major junction, from where buses to Edapally and Northern areas can be caught at Right Stand, buses to Alleppey, Cherthala etc can be caught at Left Stand, Vaikom and Kottayam at North Stand and City buses at south Stand)
Some buses proceed further to Udayamperoor, Vaikom direction too after stopping at Thripunithara Terminus
ROUTE 3 VVPIN-HIGH COURT JUNCTION
High Court Main Boat Jetty (Boat Jetty for Ferry to Vypeen, Fort Kochi, Mattencherry, Willingdon Island) Buses of Route 1 and Route 2 can be caught from this area, to proceed further
ROUTE 4- ATLANTIS-KAKKANAD
Atlantis Stand (Deviates to side road of shipyard)
Church Landing (near to Pallimukku)
Palarivattom Civil Lane Stop
Padivattom Byepass Junction
Kakkanad Civil Station
All these services have a reverse service route too.
Some services may operate directly between Alwaye, Edapally, Kakkanad and Vytilla Jn using the Byepass Road via Palarivattom Bye Pass.
Some buses take a turn at Kaloor Junction to enter into Kaloor-Kathrikadu Road, which byepass entering into city and takes to Kadavanthara.
LOW FLOOR A/C BUS ROUTE
Route A- Thoppumpaddy Bus Stand to Airport, via Thevera Bridge, Kundanoor, NH BYEPASS, Vytilla Junction, Padivattom, Edapally Toll Gate, Kalamaserry, Aluva, Desom, Airport.
Route B- Aroor-Angamally by Seaport-Airport road, covering Kakkanad, Thripunithara, Aluva and Angamally
My edit message reads: After all the help you are getting with this article, the least you can do is to please stop writing in CAPITALS. Moved to talk page.. YOU sort it out
--Burmesedays 09:49, 3 April 2010 (EDT)
Route 1: Alubas-FORT KOCHI, connecting Aluva town with Fort Kochi via Kalamassery, Edapally, Palarivattom, Kaloor, Lissie Jn, Town Hall Junction (near to North Railway station), Kacheripady, High Court, Menaka, South Area-MG Road, Atlantis, Thevera, Willington Island, Thomppumpaddy, Mattencherry.
Route 2- ALUVA-THRIPUNITHARA, connecting between Aluva town with Thripunithara Terminus. The bus routes services almost all stops of Route and divert from Menaka to Chitoor Road, South Bus stand (near South Railway station), Manorama Jn, Vytilla Jn, Thripunithara terminus. Some of the bus connect further down south of Thripunithara too.
Route 3- VYPIN ISLAND-HIGH COURT, connecting Cherai Beach with High Junction in city, via Njarrakal, Vypin island, Vallarpadom island, Bolgatty island and end at High Court jn, where route 1 and 2 buses can be caught.
Route 4- ATLANTIS-KAKKANAD, connecting from Atlantis Jn in MG Road to Kakkanad via Shipyard, Foreshore Road, Park Avenue, Marine Drive, Kacheripady, Town Hall Jn, Kaloor, Palarivattom, Chembamukku, Padamugal and Infopark
There are several other small routes, virtually connecting every part of the city.
LOW FLOOR A/C BUS ROUTE
Route A- Thoppumpaddy Bus Stand to Airport, via Thevera Bridge, Kundanoor, NH BYEPASS, Vytilla Junction, Padivattom, Edapally Toll Gate, Kalamaserry, Aluva, Desom, Airport.
Route B- Aroor-Angamally by Seaport-Airport road, covering Kakkanad, Thripunithara, Aluva and Angamally
--Burmesedays 09:49, 3 April 2010 (EDT)
A wiki Map for Kochi
Is someone here possible to make a wikistyle map for Kochi city, that helps to understand the city more better for tourists...... I have no idea how to develop a wiki map- --Kish 21:30, 05 April 2010 (IST)
55 Paise per Km for every subsequent Km after Minimum charge
A/C Volvo service
Minimum charge- Rs 10 for first 5 Km
Rs 2 per Km for every subsequent Km after Minimum charge
Regular Auto Tariffs
Flag Down Charge/Minimum Charge- Rs 10 for first 1.25 Km
Rs 6 per Km for every subsequent Km after Minimum charge
10% premium as night charges (7:00 PM-6:00 AM)
Regular Taxi Tariffs
Flag Down Charge/Minimum Charge- Rs 50 for first 3 Kms
Rs 8 per Km for every subsequent Km after Minimum charge
10% premium to above rate, if the taxi is air-conditioned
15% premium as Night charges (7:00 PM-6:00 AM)
Airport-City transfer charges Non A/C- Rs 650, A/C- Rs 750
Full day services- Standard Non A/c:- Rs 1100 for maximum of 10 hours and 110 Kms
Full day services- Standard A/C:- Rs 1500 for maximum of 10 hours and 80 Kms
I'm going to go ahead and take issue with using infoboxes for this purpose here. There are getting to be too many of them, and some of the information is of dubious value. Let's find another way. Texugo 02:35, 6 April 2010 (EDT)
Hi Texugo, can u clarify which part of the information is dubious?- Kish 18:22, 6 April 2010 (IST)
Four phone numbers for the airport and six for the rail terminal seems like overkill, and the two airlines probably belong on the India page with a more complete listing and not here. Moreover, I think the useful rate information that is there can be presented a lot more succinctly in prose form in the main text.Texugo 09:02, 6 April 2010 (EDT)
Gonna start cutting a little more aggressively, since this article is still one of the longest messes we have. The buy section in particular is a mess of too many options. I started off by cutting the jewelry section to just four listings (see discussion above). Next, I'm cutting the whole electronics section because 1) I'm not sure I believe that electronics are really particularly cheaper than other Indian cities, 2) PCs and many consumer electronics and "white goods" are simply too big for the average to pick up anyway, 3) buying cell phones in another country is not necessarily as simple as just picking one up, and I don't think many travellers go to a foreign country to shop for them. Here's what I yanked:
You can buy electronic gadgets at comparatively low rates. for the latest technology, Kochi hosts many large consumer electronics fairs.
Computers and accessories
Apple store in Kadavantra,
Dell Store in Kadvanthara,
HP Store in Oberon Mall
Toshibha in Palarivattom and Oberon Mall
Lenovo Shop near Edapally High School Junction
Sony World located in Atlantis-MG Road as well as in NH Byepass Road
Focuz Computers in Banerjee Road-North End offers multi-brand computers and laptops
Online IT-Shoppe in Ravipuram and Atlantis Junction in MG road, offers a large collection of latest computer systems of all brands and almost all kind of accessories
ITNet Infocom in Sreekandath Road, is famous for its good range of systems, at amazing discounts
Almost everywhere, you will find small and medium sized shops selling the latest international and national brand phones.
Penta Menaka Mobile Mall and 'GCDA Shopping Complex both in Marine Drive are malls purely dedicated to mobile phones and accessories.
For electronics and accessories, there are many stores mostly located in MG Road, Marine Drive and the Palarivattom area. The Electronics Street, oppostie Medical Trust, Pallimukku, is one of the best places for rock bottom prices.
Large white goods centers like QRS (in MG Road and in NH Bypass Road), White Planet (MG Road) and Bismi (Kaloor, near Stadium), are worth a visit.
I do not know whether you been to India. Any how I have travelled across many leading cities of Europe as well as Middle East, only to find rates of most of electronics products at half rates in India than in these countries. Recently I brought a Dell laptop from Dubai for AED 4200 (US$1143), however to my surprise I found the same system at Kochi for Rs 38,000 (US$ 855). I used to believe since there is no taxes at Dubai the rate would be lower, but to my surprise in Kochi its more cheaper, making feel frustrated. Even in mobiles and many white goods like cameras, personal grooming or dvd players, the rates are damn more better than many other countries as most of the global majors make India-specific products as India is more price-sensitive country than other regions.
I also found that Kochi has more better prices than other major metros like Bangalore or Delhi, as the city dominated by middle class people, hence more price sensitive than other regions. I wish to recommend that we must have a electronic section in buy, because many foreign tourists are unaware of this major difference in prices than many glitz countries like Singapore or Dubai
Kish- 10:30, 7 April 2010 (IST)
OK, you restored it all, and I won't blank it again for now but... I can perhaps be convinced that a brief mention and a couple of the best listings might be ok, but I remain wholly unconvinced that we need a section of this size with 15+ listings, because I think most travellers are not interested in buying large consumer electronics, proprietary cell phones, appliances, or expensive cameras while travelling. I'd like to see some others' opinions on this. Texugo 02:00, 8 April 2010 (EDT)
I would agree with Texugo. Buying electronics is surely not a common reason for travel to Kochi. Naming a couple of stores or just a brief prose summary is sufficient.--Burmesedays 09:01, 8 April 2010 (EDT)
Almost ready for guide
Almost. I have finished the drink sections now. I would suggest the following still needs to happen before the article is upgraded to guide:
Buy section still needs culling - see Apparel and Bookshop sections for example.
A thorough proof read needs to happen.
All references to Cochin should be changed to Kochi (except in the context of the city changing name etc.)--Burmesedays 06:11, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
As an aside and not a precursor to guide status, I am exploring whether I could knock together a general districts map for the city.--Burmesedays 06:12, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
I am wondering about the Kochi/Cochin thing as to whether the old name is kept in certain place or event names. For example, it could be the case that the Cochin Carnival or the Cochin Golf Club actually use "Cochin" as part of their event/club name.
Hi buddies, Yes even today many people continues to refer Kochi as Cochin and vice-versa. This is because, earlier during British Raj days, Cochin was the English name used to refer British Cochin, whereas in all Royal records of Kochi Kingdom which was in Malayalam used to refer the place as Kochi. Hence usage of both names became common. In 1997, the govt of Kerala made an official policy to use Malayalam name of all cities, following the National policy of renaming most of cities. However the Kerala govt policy was restricted to renaming Trivandrum into Thiruvananthapuram, whereas no official order was passed in regard to Kochi, due to ambiguity exists, whether Cochin was the official name of the city or not. As as result most of the govt websites and tourism dept used to call the city as KOCHI, whereas most of the private establishments used to refer the city as COCHIN, which is commonly referred in many places.
For example Kochi's airport is called Cochin International Airport Limited (CIAL). The golf clubs, yacht club, marina, Naval base, Shipyard etc continues to be known as Cochin.
Another issue is that there is no single place called COCHIN or KOCHI. It is a collective name, for all the distinct districts of the city. This makes naming more complex - KISH 9:30, 9 April 2010 (IST)
Opening hours have never really been a hang up for guide status have they? Star of course, but for guide? Some more phone numbers, yep, I see what you mean. I know it is not really relevant, but have a look around at a lot of our guide articles and this one is in at least as decent a shape now. To quote: Guide - The article would be helpful for the average traveler, such as offering alternatives for where to stay and eat, what to see and do, how to get in and out, etc. and provide enough information for at least a few days there. But at least a few things are missing to make this a star article. It follows the manual of style in spirit if not in detail.--Burmesedays 07:47, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
I have knocked together a map of the Kochi area and added it to the article. This is not intended to be a city map with attractions, but a broad scope map showing the layout of the area, the main routes in, the airport etc. Very much a first draft, and comments are requested. I am sure I have left off some important place names for example.--Burmesedays 11:22, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
Yes, its a good map, to depict the Kochi U/A with all its districts. However you have missed naming one important place- Mattancherry, which is the southern portion of Fort Kochi island. Secondly the place you marked as Kanna is not kanna, but Kumbalangi Island. Then very near to Kakkanad, you missed out marking Thrikakara, the main town famous for its annual Onam celebrations and educational hub of Kochi. While marking airport, the name of the place (Nedumbassery) is important as its more popular. In other ways, its good to see a well designed map. - Kish 9:45, 9 April 2010 (IST)
Thanks for that feedback. I have changed the map, so please check again. I have also used a more locally recognisable route shield.--Burmesedays 05:14, 10 April 2010 (EDT)
I do not know whether Party/discos/Mightlife can be merged with Bars or not, because
Bars in Indian context is just a place to sit and drink, whereas Pubs, discos/party/nightlife are places were regular evening parties, dance floors and lounge operates within it. Secondly most of pubs or disco/party/nightlife are places designed even for Non-Alcohol users. For example pool parties @ Ramada is more famous for its wide range of mocktails (fruit juices are used instead of alcohol) than cocktails. This is because of traditional Indian association of bars with alcohol, whereas nightfall also caters non-alcohol users too.
Secondly there most of nightlife party lounges donot fall under splurge. Because a guest may require to shell out atleast Rs 5000 (US$100) in case of splurge bars, whereas required to shell in between Rs 700 (US$14) to Rs 2000(US$40).
Thirdly splurge bars cater more signature drinks and cocktails, than snacks or food whereas party discos has elobrate buffets along with the pass
Fourth, bars are required to close down on certain days as dry days, whereas party or discos donot require.
And finally entry to parties and discos are limited to certain age groups, sometimes only couples, sometimes only ladies and with strict dress code (like with suits, shoes, sarees, gowns etc), whereas bars are open to all types without any dress code restrictions
I wish to know the opinions of others. I personally recommend to separate bars from nightlife parties or discos.
Separate them if you must, but please do not change any of the language. I cannot bear the thought of re-writing all those again.
Also, please go through the buy section and take out some of the shops in Apparel and Bookshops - just three of the best in each buy subsection is enough.
And please give me comments on the map. Thanks. --Burmesedays 12:42, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
I think it's unnecessary to divide the bars into Budget, Mid-range, and Splurge. We don't usually use those subheaders under Drink anyway, plus the number of bars there doesn't really warrant subdivision anyway. Texugo 23:14, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
Wikitravel allows each business to list here only once. I think there are a few bars and restaurants which are also listed as hotels? The duplicates need to be deleted. I suggest keeping all hotels and losing their bar or restaurant listings. Kish you should do this a you know the places. I have also consolidated the eat listings into Indian and non-Indian which makes for a more user-friendly section. --Burmesedays 22:07, 9 April 2010 (EDT)
It is disappointing that this article keeps growing with more and more content of doubtful use to the traveller, rather than the existing content being improved as suggested. So, I will start some culling myself. Quality is so much more important than quantity. --Burmesedays 02:55, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Yeah, this article is currently the fifth longest city article we have (not counting city-states) and the fifteenth longest article we have overall. Ironically, it has just beat out India in length, which is completely and utterly ridiculous. This article needs massive cuts... Texugo 03:00, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Here is another form of duplication: the Districts section and the See#Places section list almost exactly the same things. They need to be merged in one place or another. Bolgatty was actually listed as a district, a see listing, and a sleep listing, which is a bit much. I removed the See listing for now, but not sure what to do from there.Texugo 10:21, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
I think many parts of city is now moved to get out, which is not true. This is because these parts are essentially part of city and most of the attractions are essentially classified by almost all tour/travel operators as part of Kochi City. Perhaps only for administration purpose, due to red tape these parts are not classified as part of city corporation, for which some bills are pending before state legislature. However in every way or other, places like Aluva, Thrikakara town, Kakkanad, Maradu and Tripunithara are essentially part of city which remains true for every tourist. I don't think, its fair to move this out of city districts.
Secondly regarding Bolgatty Island, it is a historical island which entirely belongs to Bolgatty Palace, now heritage hotel. There are few residential quarters mainly its staff and few other residents. Bolgatty island is a place to see, for its large palace complex, gardens, golf course as well as also part of hotel chain of KTDC. The golf course, horse tracks, gardens are NOT OFFICIALLY PART OF THE HOTEL, but belongs to heritage committee of Govt, though managed and maintained by hotel funds (as hotel belongs to govt). Bolgatty island is listed as city district by corporation, because it remains alway from mainland, which has a ferry point connecting to other islands. Thats why this is a district, a heritage zone, a hotel and a major golf course.
I do feel we need to merge some duplicated listings of fort cochin, mattencherry, Vypin. I wrote separately because in districts, I donot want to elobrate whats all to see in these places, rather just to inform there are certain districts called in these names in the city.
Secondly some pubs/disco centers have duplicate listings, because they operate within the premises of some leading hotels, but under different management, NOT PART OF HOTEL. For example, Tandav Disco is a leading discotheque managed by a leading DJ company in Cochin, operating in a leased complex within Le Meridian. Even it has a separte entrance also. Hence classifying Tandav as part of Le Meridian gives wrong impression, because Le Meridian is associated with expensive destination, whereas Tandav is not as expensive option as Le Meridien hotel. KISH 10:30, 14 April 2010 (IST)
The content of the article is actually good and up to guide standard I think. That makes the presentation of it and the long-winded nature of the writing all the more annoying. If anyone printed and stuck the article in their bag before going to the city, I reckon they would do just fine. --Burmesedays 10:27, 14 April 2010 (EDT)
Though Kochi has almost all holidays that Kerala state has, the intensity of some holidays is more vigor than other parts of state. For example, Good Friday is a state holiday, but elsewhere all commercial firms do keep open, whereas in Kochi it marks total closure including owned by other religious groups, as the city being a major catholic city and seat of Kerala Latin Catholic Church
Likewise Jewish holidays and North Indian holidays like Diwali, Holi etc is not celebrated anywhere else other than in Kochi, which is a local holiday.
Whereas most of Islamic holidays are common in the state, Kochi has limited intensity for these, as Muslim population is less in the city.
X'mas is celebrated much more vigor than any other festival. Onam, though being national festival, it marks only one day holiday in Kochi unlike 4 day holiday in state capital-Trivandrum
Hence taking it away to Kerala page is not a right decision- KISH
As others have already stated, much of what is in this article applies more broadly to Kerala and even to India, and should thus be covered in those articles. The section on holidays was primarily a list of state holidays, so even if 20% of it was specific to Kochi, the 80% that wasn't really belongs in the Kerala article. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:56, 28 April 2010 (EDT)
There is a reason why I mentioned in Cope. Elsewhere in Kerala, many state holidays is limited to govt and few private offices, not to commercial firms. However the listed holidays in Kochi page marks total closure of all commercial units unlike elsewhere. Perhaps public transportation also stays away from road on these day. It is because of this reason, it has been mentioned to warn travellers to avoid being on these days, as they would find difficulty even to find a restaurant open.
For example X'mas is a state holiday only in Kerala, however in any other city like Trivandrum almost all shops open on that day as well as public transport. Whereas not a single restaurant opens on that day in Kochi, being a major Christian center. Hence an alert must be given- KISH
My efforts in moving the holidays to the state article were mostly to address the fact that this is a very, very bulky article with a lot of information that applies to the broader region. Others have raised the issue that content seems to continue to be added to this article (and it's very good content), but no effort is being made to make the article more readable by trimming some sections or moving some information elsewhere. With respect to the specific issue of the holidays section, if they should be in this article then put them here, but to my eye much of that information was more broadly applicable and I was solely trying to move it to a better place and hopefully make this article a bit more readable. -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:29, 29 April 2010 (EDT)
I see an attempt has been made to district Kochi. This really should have been discussed first. I am not sure it warrants this treatment. Yes, the article is very long but that is at least in part due to the long-winded, repetitive writing style used, and a mass of information that should not be there. I also see that someone has turned my map into a mess which resembles a pile of neon vomit. --Burmesedays 06:44, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
Not only a pile of neon vomit, but I see the user has claimed this as his own work (the nasty colours are, the rest isn't) and released it into the public domain, when I granted a CC-by-SA 3.0 licence to the original.--Burmesedays 06:51, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
I have reverted all the edits related to districtification until this goes through the due process of discussion on this talk page. It might be the right thing but must be discussed in detail first.--Burmesedays 06:58, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
It's a little extreme to refer to another user's efforts as "vomit". But it's clearly a copyright violation to release it into the public domain. You should nominate it for deletion on shared, although I wouldn't bat an eye if you bypassed that and speedied it. LtPowers 08:11, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
Special:Contributions/Kish is actively starting the districting of Kochi with the creation of sub-articles. I left him a note that the discussion is against districting and linked him this discussion. jan 08:19, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
I am much more concerned about the districting than the map, the graphic description of which was partially intended as humour. If anyone thinks Kochi needs districting then let's discuss that.--Burmesedays 09:14, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
First and formost, let me make it clear, its not me who added the Kochi Map in shared. When going thro' shared, I found a Coloured map, so though to start districting, by attempting to produce similar colour coded districts in article. If its a copyright violation, kindly delete it. Sorry from my part, for not cross-examining the map, before adding it in article.
Then regarding districting, I think, its time up to districting the Kochi City. This is because, the article is getting longer, primarily because so many districts come together as one city article, increasing the volume of article.
Greater Kochi UA is all set to achieve 6th Metro Status and India's 10th. Currently administrative process are going in that direction. Hence more write-up about various parts of Kochi city in single article, would increase the volume and decrease its chances for nominating into star article......
Hence I suggest for starting districting process.
Kochi City has atleast 7 to 9 satellite areas. Some districts can be clubbed together. For example Maradu is an independent administrative unit, but can be clubbed into Tripunithara district, due to its proximity to the latter. Likewise Vallarpadom and Bolgatty island can be clubbed together as there is nothing to see in Vallarpadom, being used for Kochi ICT.
Hope we can start districting process soon.- KISH 08:00, 25 May 2010 (IST)
So you are not User:renikk at Wikitravel shared? That user has contributed a large number of images, all relating to Kochi , but has no history whatsoever of editing here at en. That is an extremely strange pattern to say the least. After the large copyright error with the Kochi map, I am very suspicious that other images and the bus maps produced by this user are similarly dodgy.--Burmesedays 11:29, 25 May 2010 (EDT)
Sorry Mr. Burmesedays, I do have balls, to reveal my identity. Unforunately I am not renikk. My name is Krishnan Menon, nicknamed as Kish..... I know Renikk, as he is a respectable member in several online forums like India Mike.com, forumkochinow and many similar forums and blogs. He is a leading photographer in the city and has made some contributions in wikipedia as well as other social sites. He has uploaded some of his photographs, which I used here. The bus maps are created by him to assist KSRTC to post these maps bus shelters and stands. I have seen these maps created by Rennik, posted in various Kochi bus stands. I requested him to upload in wikitravel shared, so that it can be uploaded for wikitravel article.
If you are suspicious, its upto you, to check the authenticity, which has nothing to do with me. My intentions were geniune, hence nothing to fear. If Mr. Rennikk has violated any copyright, its an issue between you and him. So it must not be projected against me. My aim is to create a quality article for Kochi, a city where I live for past 10 years.
Kindly talk about prospects of districting the city, to reduce the volume of the article.- KISH 09:10, 25 May 2010 (IST)
To make if easier for others to comment, this is the district scheme that was implemented without discussion, before I removed it.
Ernakulam Mainland City (CBD, Downtown, Edapally-Kaloor-Palarivattom (Suburb)) The heart and transport hub of Kochi City. It has three distinct parts; the Central Business District (CBD);Downtown with upscale residential areas and the business district at SA Road and Vytilla Junction; the commercial high street areas at Suburbs
Islands of Fort Kochi and Mattencherry (Fort Kochi, Mattencherry, Kumbalangi Islands, Eda Kochi, Thoppumpaddy) This forms the Old Kochi, which is primarily a tourist enclave. Fort Kochi forms the upper part of the Island with neatly arranged colonial buildings, narrow well paved roads, Anglo-Dutch influenced structures and large antiques shops; Mattancherry is primarily a trading city, famous for its thriving Gujarati settlement brought to the city in the 16th and 17th centuries by the spice trade.
Willingdon Island (Port Area, Naval Base, Katari Bagh, Lower Island) The largest man-made island in India, made from sand dredged from the backwaters to deepen the Kochi Port, named after Long Willingdon, then-the reigning Viceroy of India, houses the Kochi Port, Southern Naval Command Headquarters of Indian Navy, many five star hotels and numerous export office buildings.
Vypin Islands (Cherai, Njarrakal, Pallipuram, Vypin) One of the most densely populated islands in world, it has numerous fishing villages and some good tourist villages. The popular Cherai Beach is here. There is an old Dutch lighthouse at Ochenthuruthu and some good unexplored beaches here. Fresh seafood grilled on-the-spot is worth a try.
Vallarpadom Island (Lower and Upper Islands) The island which houses the new Kochi International Mega Container Terminal (ICT).
Bolgatty Islands (Bolgatty Palace, Ponjikkara, Mulavakad) A historical island where the English established a Royal Residency, which is now converted into a five star heritage Palace hotel. Famous for its large golf course, horse riding tracks and honeymoon villages, marina, boatyards etc.
Aluva (Aluva, Desom, Kalamassery) The second largest town in Kochi U/A, famous for its Periyar river banks and a major commercial area. Kochi International Airport is nearby.
Thrikkara Town (Thrikkara, South Kalamassery, Kakkanad, Infopark, Vazhakala, Chembumukku) Famous for the large Vamana Temple, the focal centre of Onam, the national festival of Kerala. Also the home of Cochin University and other educational institutes. Kakkanad which is seat of district of administration as well Infopark IT Park, is nearby.
Thripunithara (Thripunithara Central, Chottanikkara, Udayamperoor, Poothatta) The erstwhile capital of the Kingdom of Kochi is famous for various historical palaces, museums and temples. It is also known as the cultural point of Kochi, with numerous performing arts centers and regular arts performances.
Maradu (Maradu, Lower Aroor, Petta) The next door town of Kochi city is famous for being one of the upcoming business district with numerous star hotels, business establishments, malls and premier automobile showrooms.
I am still not 100% convinced that Kochi needs districting, but if the will to do the work is there, then perhaps there is enough content. A few important points about the suggested scheme.
I think there are too many proposed districts.
Vallarapadom would seem to be a bit tenuous with a container terminal as its major claim to fame. I suggest this is included with another district. Also do the small areas of Thripunithara and Maradu need to be separate districts?
There cannot be large swathes that are not included in any district as is the case with this proposal. For example, the large area of grey between Vypin and Aluva has to be allocated to those districts somehow. Same goes for other odd areas that seem to be in no district.--Burmesedays 09:40, 30 May 2010 (EDT)
I am still not even 50% convinced that Kochi needs districting. I agree with Burmesedays' comments above, but I also think the article is artificially bloated with verbose prose and extra listings not particularly necessary or not particularly unique to the city. 11 hairdressers? 4 opticians? 5 hospitals, 3 blood banks, and 9 ambulance listings? Not sure that a city this size needs to cover supermarkets or fabric shopping quite so thoroughly, and unless Kochi is well-known across India as the place to buy electronics, footwear, luggage or cosmetics, they probably shouldn't exist as sub-sections but rather be reduced to single listings of the best recommendation in each category. I would be surprised if a city of 600,000 plus a few suburbs really and truly merited all the hype that's been heaped in this article. Texugo 11:15, 30 May 2010 (EDT)
At first I considered raising this on the talk pages of some of the Indian articles and then decided it might be more appropriate to seek a wider overview and raise my concerns here. Some of the articles, Kochi and Bangalore readily come to mind, are seriously burdened with clutter. I think those of us who patrol and edit there frequently will be familiar with the issues. Sari shops, taxi services, reams of Eat listings, various shops, long lists of education services and academic institutions and similar can all become a little overwhelming. I have noted a few bold reversions and some ablations of big chunks of content in recent months but I think more drastic action may be appropriate. I do have some concerns though in approaching this. I am aware that many previous contributors who have put information into the articles concerned may be inadvertently alienated by any serious ablations. I do think it is important to retain their interest an enthusiasm and it may wain a little if the content they have contributed is suddenly gone. These editors are potentially our best resource in maintaining the article content.However some times my head spins just looking at these reams of information and a lot of it is just phonebook listing, often without sufficient information to be of use to a traveller. Of course if they are deleted that information cannot be built. In my observations of these articles that rarely happens. I suspect a lot of the listings are made by the proprietors, others possibly arise form the experiences of one traveller who has provided scant info on some place they came across and no one will ever built that information further. I suspect there may be a quite a few listings in the articles that have that quality. Maybe we should sweep to the discussion page, maybe just delete or maybe pick and choose what is swept to the discussion page and what is deleted. However I do feel concerned that there should be some at least broad consensus here first. Normal protocol may suggest raising it the discussion page for each article. I don't think we will get much response from other than regular India article editors and patrol editors so perhaps some of you might like to comment on the issue here.-- thanks felix 08:15, 25 October 2011 (EDT)
Just cut unnecessary content. I've been deleting masses of content at Pattaya and it has improved the article remarkably. At Kochi (India), hairdressers, opticians, blood banks, hospitals, ambulances, and pharmacies could be cut straight away. Also the police stations could be trimmed down. --globe-trotter 08:35, 25 October 2011 (EDT)
I made similar edits to Decatur, Georgia. It had accumulated a lot of cruft, and I still haven't gone through to weed out the dozen clothing stores with no description, just as one example. I've only glanced through the articles you linked, but looking at Kochi, I'd advocate removing:
table of trains under Get in
Sport, Golf, and Gym (Sport should be for city sports teams, not "I feel like playing cricket", and golf and gyms are only worth mentioning if they're famous, not just "the closest 18-hole course to X")
Movie theaters (again, if they're not famous it's probably just as easy to look up elsewhere)
Trim down the Buy section... is Kochi famous for footwear and luggage, or is it just mentioned for verbosity?
Everything under Stay Healthy could be removed IMO; I would only leave the emergency telephone numbers
Almost everything under Cope, including Libraries, Opticians, and Hairdressers
There are probably a bunch of other things that belong at a regional or national level, such as Electricity and Postal Mail.
Agree with BigPeteB on pretty much every point.texugo 10:40, 25 October 2011 (EDT)
Yes, no disagreement with any of that. Kochi (India) and its parent state article Kerala are prime examples of Indian articles gone mad. A quick read of the relevant talk pages, and you will see that Texugo and myself tried to keep them under control, but it was a losing battle.--burmesedays 20:43, 25 October 2011 (EDT)