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::Done. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 20:12, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
::Done. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] <small><sup>[[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]]</sup></small> 20:12, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
Revision as of 18:42, 9 April 2010
The section below isn't really relevant to Wikitravel, but (surprisingly) it doesn't seem to be copyvio'd either, so I'll leave it here for data mining. Jpatokal 03:09, 12 April 2006 (EDT)
Doing Business in Hiroshima
Hiroshima is the center of industry for the Chugoku-Shikoku region, and is by and large centered along the coastal areas. The Chugoku area has a GDP of approximately (US$)270 billion, making it economically larger than many countries including Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden and Austria. Its largest single industry is the manufacturing industry with core industries being the production of cars (Mazda), car parts, and shipbuilding. General machinery and equipment also account for a large portion of exports. Because these industries require research and design capapilities, it has also had the offshoot that Hiroshima has many innovative companies actively engaged in new growth fields (for example, Hiroshima Vehicle Engineering Company [HIVEC] http://www.hivec.com) Many of these companies hold the top market shares in Japan and the world, or are alone in their particular field. Tertiary industries in the wholesale and retail areas are also very developed.
Another result of the concentration of industry is an accumulation of skilled personnel and fundamental technologies. This is considered by business to be a major reson for location in Hiroshima. Business setup costs are also much lower than other large cities in the country and there is a comprehensive system of tax breaks, etc on offer for businesses which locate in Hiroshima. This is especially true of two projects: the Hiroshima Station Urban Development District and the Seifu Shinto (http://www.seifu-shinto.jp/index_f.html) area which offer capital installments(upto 500 million yen over 5 years), tax breaks and employee subsidies.
Seifu Shinto which translates as West wind, New town is the largest construction project in the region and is an attempt to build "a city within a city." It is attempting to design from the ground up a place to work, play, relax and live.
Hiroshima has long been a port city and Hiroshima port or Hiroshima International Airport can be used for the transportation of goods.
As for workers, the lifestyle is considered to be good (if a little lacking in nightlife) and Hiroshima recently made it onto Lonely Planet's list of the top cities in the world. As a city it is compact enough to travel almost anywhere by bicycle (from personal experience this is usually the quickest method also) and commuting times rank amongst the shortest in Japan. It is also consistently more reasonable than other large cities in Japan such as Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto or Fukuoka.
Information on all these matters can be recieved from Hiroshimas' Economic Affairs Bureau (http://www.business.econ.city.hiroshima.jp 082-504-2241) and is available in either English (James Clarke) or Japanese (Yamamoto-san)
The "Stay Safe" portion of the Hiroshima entry smells of BS. I live in Japan, very near to Hiroshima, and I have never had a problem dancing after 1 AM in any part of the city. The parts that begin with "recently" are very suspect, and I can't help but feel this is very misleading, very old information. Plus there's no sources referenced. Just saying, maybe it should be ammended/removed. The "Cope" section is a much more accurate description of Hiroshima. -Darrell (sorry, not a member, just a concerned reader)
- There are no "members" here, anybody -- including you -- can plunge forward and fix it up! Jpatokal 01:57, 6 October 2006 (EDT)
"Cope" section --
"Good luck coming up with a snappy answer, but if their teacher is around, you can try asking them back whether Japan would have used the bomb if they had come up with it first."
I'm not an extreme anti-nuclear bomb activist by any means, but that just sounds kind of harsh. Not all westerners think atomic bombs are a great idea, y'know. *Eyeroll*
- Well, that's kind of the point. Do you think Japan would have hesitated to use the bomb if they had gotten it first? If no, then how can they blame others for beating them to the punch? Jpatokal 01:32, 19 November 2007 (EST)
- You know, I really don't understand why that comment keeps on deleted... Jpatokal 07:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
- Me neither. I support keeping it! Texugo 07:33, 8 April 2008 (EDT)
I've deleted that bit because of three reasons.
- Firstly this is a travel guide, the role of which is not to get into the rights and wrongs of a controversial historical event. For the sake of neutrality this article should be free of language which "blames" the US and it should equally be free of language which "defends" the US.
- Secondly, Wikitravel's target audience is not limited to "westerners" but people of all nationalities, religions and political beliefs, so should be written in a way which is as non-partisan as possible.
- Thirdly, I don't think encouraging travellers to make a logically fallacious tu quoque argument against locals about a politically sensitive topic is responsible. Dreamdrifter 09:16, 28 May 2008 (EDT)
- Let's start with a fact here: it's not the traveller who's starting this "politically sensitive topic", it's the kids doing their school projects. Of course they're expecting the answer "bombs are bhaaaaaaaaad", but all I'm doing is suggesting asking a question back and letting them do some thinking, and I'm pretty amazed that you're managing to read blame, defense, partisan beliefs and logical fallacies into a question! Jpatokal 12:41, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
I've reinstated it because this discussion is ongoing and I see no reason why a newcomer to the discussion should delete it without a consensus being reached. I'll have more to say about it on the morrow. Texugo 09:57, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
Sorry but that section is just plain absurd.
- 1) Wikitravel:Be_fair states, about political issues: "The best way out is to stick to the bare minimum of facts necessary, presented as neutrally as possible, while keeping a firm focus on the traveller's interests". I do not agree that suggesting that a traveller asks the local whether or not Japan would have used the bomb if she got it first is "neutral".
- 2) I disagree with the sentence "you're virtually guaranteed to be accosted by kids working on school projects, asking you (in halting English) where you're from, what your name is and whether you think nuclear bombs are a good thing" on the basis of the fact that none of those things have happened to either me or anyone I know who have visited.
- 3) "Well, that's kind of the point. Do you think Japan would have hesitated to use the bomb if they had gotten it first? If no, then how can they blame others for beating them to the punch?". OK, in response to this:
- Could you please explain where you got the "blame" thing from?
- More importantly, the logic itself is flawed. If Japan HAD 1) developed the bomb first and 2) used it on San Francisco or something, then would the argument that "if America got it first, they would have used it" have any bearing upon the rights and wrongs of this bombing? Phonemonkey 10:13, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
I would like to see the comment left out or revised. It's been edited out by a lot of people over a lot of time - I'd estimate close to half of the edits to this article over the last year have been people deleting it and restoring it.
The original author's knowledge of Japanese history and culture are beyond reproach, as are his good intentions. But as someone who visited Hiroshima and then lived there for more than a year, the comment doesn't agree with my experience. (I wasn't at the Peace Park every day, of course.) My main concern is that nearly every American visitor, and many Westerners in general, approach Hiroshima and the Peace Park with overwhelming trepidation, concerned that they're going to be attacked over and over again for being from the same country as the people who dropped the bomb. And the museums in the Peace Park do an incredible job of navigating that difficult tone, providing depth of education about the city and the effects of the bomb without ever getting into blame over who was guilty and innocent in the war. (Hiroshima residents in general - and the hibakusha I met - also never delved into blame.) I think we're doing the museums - and travelers themselves - a disservice by prepping visitors to be ready for ideological combat with Japanese schoolteachers and their kawaii minions. Personally, if I thought that's what I would be walking into, I'd have settled for reading John Hersey and gone somewhere else.
If schoolkids really are a daily menace, we could work toward an edit that mentions their presence and suggests avoiding them. Otherwise, I don't think keeping the comment is worth the reaction it's causing in a lot of readers / editors. Gorilla Jones 18:48, 5 June 2008 (EDT)
- I'll present two views.
- Personally, I'm willing to bow on majority opinion on this.
- In general, though, I'm not entirely happy with taking stuff out just because it's controversial. For the particular case of Hiroshima, IMHO the traveller should know that eg. the exhibits at the museum have been the subject of much debate (for a long time they didn't say a word about why the bombs were dropped) and that to this day they're not allowing the monument to the 45,000 killed Korean slave laborers into the Park. Jpatokal 11:02, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
- OK, thanks Jpatokal. Just a few points:
- In a world in which there is no consensus on why the bomb was dropped the museum is doing the prudent thing in refraining from presenting ANY particular political point of view. This naturally has the potential to upset some people from both sides of the debate - both those who would like America's responsibility pursued as well as those who seek to absolve America of blame - as they feel that their point of view is ignored - and the key thing is whether this is an issue worthy of inclusion on Wikitravel in light of Wikitravel:Be_fair.
- The memorial to the Korean victims was moved into the park 9 years ago. Also isn't 45,000 the estimated number of Korean hibakusha? It's not the same thing as the estimated number of Koreans who were actually killed by the bomb. Phonemonkey 12:37, 6 June 2008 (EDT)
- I think we can all agree that the bomb was dropped because World War II was going on...
- As for the second point, sorry, I've got my memorials mixed up. The Korean monument was moved in 1999 (after 50 years...), but the Chinese memorial is still outside the park. Jpatokal 02:36, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
- I've edited the article to try to draw all of this together - please have a look and revise if necessary. Gorilla Jones 18:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)
- I've searched for references to this Chinese memorial and I couldn't find any - I was just wondering if there's been a confusion? In the grounds of Hiroshima castle there is a monument to soldiers, civilians and students who were mobilized to work for the chugoku military district. Could this be the source of the confusion? Please correct me if I am wrong! Phonemonkey 08:54, 8 June 2008 (EDT)
- Interesting. Got a link? (日本語OK.) Jpatokal 12:06, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
- Here is a comprehensive list in Japanese of the 100+ memorials scattered throughout the city. Another site here has a list of war relics within the grounds of the castle. Phonemonkey 17:48, 9 June 2008 (EDT)
- Interesting indeed -- I'll bet that's the source of the confusion. Quite the little maboroshi... Jpatokal 07:52, 10 June 2008 (EDT)
A little late to be joining the debate, but for what it's worth I visited the Peace Memorial Park this summer. Yes, there were a number of groups of schoolchildren, all from a local school. They were keen to try out their English but questions were very simple - where are you from, favourite colour/sport/food - nothing about the bomb. They were a delight to talk to, they obviously got a lot out of it, and any visitor should regard it as a part of the visit. Indeed I think it is very discourteous to go out of your way to avoid them. But whatever else you do, or do not do, you must visit the museum. (Sorry, I'm not a registered user, so no id) Ken, England
Stay safe sources
This is my first contribution to this page so I hope it is going to end up in the right place - apologies in advance if it ends up somewhere it shouldn't!
I just wanted to address some of the concerns raised above about additions recently made to the "Stay Safe" section. While the situation is perhaps more complicated than stated, it is a fairly accurate summary.
More discussion can be found at http://gethiroshima.blogspot.com
Hope this is useful.
Unused hotel listings
I wrote these and verified the information, but decided not to use them as the article filled up and more compelling options were available. Gorilla Jones 23:46, 28 April 2009 (EDT)
- Hiroshima Intelligent Hotel Main/New, 3-36 Higashikojin-machi, Minami-ku, ☎ 082-263-7000. Similar to the other two, but a bit cheaper for being a bit out of the way, tucked into a concrete jungle near JR Hiroshima Station — hang a left out of the south exit and follow the winding road. Rooms from ¥6000 single, ¥9000 double.
- Mikawa Ryokan, 9-6 Kyobashi-cho, Minami-ku, ☎ 082-261-2719 (fax: 082-263-2706). About 7 minutes from JR Hiroshima Station. Has a shaky claim to the title of "ryokan", but it's cheap. ¥3675 single, ¥6300 double, ¥9450 triple.
- Ikawa Ryokan, 5-11 Dobashi-cho, Naka-ku (Dobashi-cho tram stop), ☎ +81 082-231-5058 (firstname.lastname@example.org). Plain but serviceable ryokan with Japanese and Western-style rooms. Rooms ¥5775-4725 single with/without bath, ¥9450-8400 double. Communal bath is available.
An anonymous user says wasn't there — I've asked a friend to check. The DeoDeo is definitely still there and open. Gorilla Jones 08:56, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
"A tip for souvenir hunters on a tight budget: check out the fourth floor of the DeoDeo just off Hon-dori, next to the old Hiroshima Mitsui Bank building. There is a 100 yen shop with an improbably excellent selection of distinctively Japanese souvenirs: pottery, sake sets, art, statuettes, signs and cheap ukiyo-e. It's on the left side of the store. Remember, nobody at home knows you only paid 100 yen for it!"
Deo Deo is an electronics shop. On the fourth floor they sell lights and air conditioners. There is nothing in the whole building with pottery etc. I wasted an hour or two looking and consequently am very annoyed about that, and by my edits being reversed by some American guy who doesn't even live there any more. Thank you.
I made an edit about the fact that it is almost impossible to find any souvenirs, which was reversed by some American. So I will write it here. People go to Hiroshima because of the bomb. I bet if you asked tourists for 99% of them that would be the reason. The only souvenirs they have is alot of stuff relating to the baseball team and a few T-shirts and postcards with their rebranding exercise of Hiroshima being a "Peace City". This is completely inadequate and very disappointing considering the importance of the city as a tourist destination. There are several souvenirs they could produce which related to the bomb attack such as plates, snow domes, fridge magnets, arts and crafts. I think tourists should be warned of this - otherwise it comes as an unpleasant surprise and detracts from the experience. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs)
- Let me get this straight -- you were expecting bomb attack snow domes? As in, say, a little A-Bomb Dome-in-a-dome with black rain and ashes falling onto it when you shake it? That's in such incredibly bad taste that I'd... probably buy one. Jpatokal 11:51, 15 June 2009 (EDT)
Hereby submitted. It has two city maps and a transit map; the atomic bomb sites are thoroughly covered, including a few that no other guidebook has picked up, but it also has enough for several days in the city, and even things to do with kids in tow. This would be our first Japan star and second for Asia. Gorilla Jones 09:06, 27 July 2009 (EDT)
- Support Yay! more non US stars! Excellent lively writing and an amazing history section! I'd like to see more of listings spelled out in Japanese though, I remember from my first visits to Japan, that I always ended up showing the Kanji from Lonely Planet when asking for directions. Though I know it breaks the system, so maybe that's an open call. As for the usual nitpicks; open during school hours - may not be very telling for the average tourister, Tachikoma's hours just reads F-W? --Stefan (sertmann) Talk 09:49, 27 July 2009 (EDT)
- I don't think it should be an open call; as you stated, it's extremely helpful. I think it'd be a good policy to list all attractions in their native script, if they do not use the English alphabet (or a mutually comprehensible one). I imagine it would help to list names in Arabic, Chinese, Russian, etc. on their respective pages. At any rate, I've added the Japanese script to all of the "See" listings outside of Peace Park.
- I haven't fully reviewed the page, but I did notice the Flame of Peace is missing from the map (and perhaps the park description). It's located on the opposite side of the pond as the Cenotaph, and the flame is to burn until all nuclear weapons in the world have been destroyed. It's an interesting part of the park, and a good conversation piece. ChubbyWimbus 23:15, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
- Yeah, that's a good idea. (And thanks, Chubby, for doing 'See'!) To clarify, though, are you saying that every 'See' listing should have kanji, or every listing in the article (hotels, bars, etc)? The flame of peace is mentioned in the article, but the phrasing of the location is muddled, so I'll clarify that and add it to the Peace Park map. Gorilla Jones 23:41, 30 July 2009 (EDT)
- For me, I think just "See" is enough for foreign scripts. Of course, I can't speak for Stefan. ChubbyWimbus 00:02, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
- Support Extremely well-written article. — Ravikiran 04:50, 31 July 2009 (EDT)
- Support. It's always a good sign when an article really makes you want to visit the destination it speaks of. It's incredibly well-written and all the listings look good. There's one thing though - I'd like to see a little more correlation between the tram map and the regular one - nothing big, I want to see the tram map stay (it's very useful), I'd just like to see the stations marked on the regular map so I can tell exactly where the tram goes. Other than that, I have no qualms and it's a fantastic article. PerryPlanet Talk 14:59, 1 August 2009 (EDT)
- The tram stations are so close to each other — only a block or two apart in the city center — that the map wouldn't be able to fit all of the names. Symbols might be possible, although they'd be a tight fit. Would drawing the tram lines on the streets work? Gorilla Jones 19:53, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
- The tram line with symbols would be good. Maybe just adding the names of the most prominent stops would be suitable. ChubbyWimbus 20:21, 4 August 2009 (EDT)
- Last call for this one — tram lines & stations have been added to the map, and a long distance call placed to Tachikoma for hours. Any other comments? Gorilla Jones 16:24, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
Almost support. My say on this has already expired (I've been preoccupied with D.C.), so you can go ahead and add the star without addressing my concerns. That said, I only have one—shouldn't the phone numbers all have the country code included "+81"? Is there a reason not to do this? It would take me about 30 seconds to fix this, so just say the word. Aside from that, I have two non-crucial map suggestions: 1) change the grey background to the light grey color—I think this increases readability marginally; 2) increase the text size of the main road names just a little bit.
Quibbles aside, this is a fantastic article, and will be a great model for how to do a large-city right. It's also, surprisingly, our second Asian star, the only one since Singapore (which was more than three years ago). Congratulations on a job well done! --Peter Talk 18:33, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
- No, I don't have any feelings about the phone numbers — the word is said, please format as appropriate. Gorilla Jones 19:21, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
- Done. --Peter Talk 20:12, 16 August 2009 (EDT)
I removed the part about striking the bell like an atomic bomb. This is obviously a joke as the PEACE bell is not supposed to represent the a-bomb and there is actually a sign asking to ring the bell carefully and gently.