Difference between revisions of "Talk:Hindi phrasebook"
Revision as of 19:28, 20 November 2006
The comment about Hindi books in India is very true, although India is an ideal place to learn Hindi! ;-) Jeremy 16:10, 17 Feb 2004 (EST)
I am interested by this. Should we use the Devanagari script? Yann 09:55, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)
Should Hindi and Urdu be two phrasebooks, or one phrasebook with two scripts? -phma 15:49, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)
I'm voting for one phrasebook with two scripts and a lot of explination. We don't have two phrasebooks for France-French and Quebec-French and Hindi-Urdu is probably even closer (more info than you probably want at http://sasw.chass.ncsu.edu/fl/faculty/taj/hindi/abturdu.htm, http://www.geocities.com/sikmirza/arabic/hindustani.html). I would suggest moving the page to Hindi-Urdu phrasebook though, just to be clear and fair. Majnoona 23:01, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)
I added a consonant to the combining vowels, since without it they were attaching to the previous Roman letter or the parenthesis. They still look weird; in particular the short i, which should be to the left of t, is to its right. I don't know if it's my X server (XFree86 4.2.1), my fonts, or something else. If you have a proper Nagari setup, could you check? -phma 20:29, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)
This page is becoming quite long. Can it cut in two? Yann 16:24, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)
When entering the phrases, the words in parentheses should follow the pseudo-phoneticization guide as closely as practicable for Hindi ("kh", for example, is not the ach-Laut but an aspirated "k"). Before that should be the phrase in Nagari and Arabic script, if you can type them. If the Hindi phrase is different from the Urdu phrase, put them on separate lines with <br> between them. -phma 22:08, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)
If anybody is still following this article I am making it a project of mine to improve this phrase book. I added a clearer chart, and changed some things around. I would love suggestions and ideas, or disputes to my changes. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I can always discuss proposed changes in the future if anyone feels cheated. There are quite a few things I would like to discuss/collaberate on, as well as ideas I have. Like can we just delete the good morning and other time elemental greetings? Just because there is some arcane Sanskrit word doesn't mean it needs to be here. The same goes with things like 'sorry', 'excuse me', 'thank you', etc. though shukriya is probably used more in Urdu than it or dhanyavaad is used in Hindi. And for polite usage, the English word or phrase is generally used instead. The KH, GH, f, z, also need to be added as does the candrabindu perhaps, though modern usage doesn't require it. The modifying diacritics could also go after the consonants. Also religious terms could be added, like mandir, masjid, gurudwara, etc. As could city names, and significant sites: taj mahal, red fort, etc; the Islamic and Western calender, holidays and festivals (e.g. Holi, Divali, Ramazan), et cetera ad infinituum! I just want to give a heads up, I believe there is much that needs to be done here! Let's make the phrasebook for the world's third largest language on par with its status!
On stress, Hindi is a very flat language, like Spanish without accents. There is no stress, as there are in Vedic hymns, etc. However, syllables could be noted especially when because of a suffix, or sometimes after 'ra' there is no inherent 'a'. Otherwise syllables are pretty much just counting vowels! eg. na1-ma1-ste1. I was thinking of adding IPA, but I don't know IPA well enough yet and therefore not confident enough with it to edit. i.e. I don't know whether to use a schwa, lambda or backwards epsilon character to represent the inherent 'a'. I could use help regarding this issue.
On seperating Hindi and Urdu. YES! We've probably all read the Hindi-Urdu FAQ, etc., and Bollywood itself is very mixed. In short, there is no such thing as "pure" Hindi, except maybe in the grade schools of Bihar! However; unlike Québécois and Français, we are talking about different scripts, different histories (not to imply France and Québec don't), and in the case of Urdu much more Turkish, Arabic, and Farsi elements, like the izaafat. And most importantly, religion. Though India has one of the largest Muslim communities in the world (3rd, 4th?), let's face it; Hindi is colored with Hinduism, and Urdu, post partition has become even more consciously Islamic. I would love to find a way to put them together, but I'm not sure the page is wide enough for most people to fit on their screens (esp. longer phrases): --Phrase | Transliteration | Devanagari | Nastaliq/Naskh | Pronunciation | IPA-- whether in a chart, or other formatting. And I'm not even getting into the variants each language has Persian/Devanagari, etc which could be rectified using the aforementioned <bk>'s, but still wouldn't simplify matters enough. The former reasons mentioned are why Urdu is often considered a seperate language by linguists on sociological grounds http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=hin . If anyone wishes to help me tackle the Urdu, an invaluable intro to nastaliq can be found at http://users.skynet.be/hugocoolens/newurdu/newurdu.html . As well as an urdu dictionary here: http://www.urduword.com . btw, among my minor corrections so far I corrected the fact that Arabic numerals actually do go left-right. It was an understandable mistake though for anyone not familiar with the quirks of Arabic.
I'm currently at the end of my second year of Hindi, and besides any help any of you can provide, I plan to talk to my teacher, classmates, and Indian friends for help. For the time being I will at least start wikifying the Urdu alphabet - though I hope it will be seperated. I use Mac X.4 and Safari browser. Everything looks fine to me. Sorry if anyone is having problems. If anyone would like links or good books/dictionaries suggestions, just ask. I always welcome suggestions beyond the ubiquitous Snell book myself! Khirad 17:13, 23 May 2005 (EDT)
It has been a while since I've touched this page, but I haven't given up trying to complete it. In any case, the page already takes up too much memory. Some primary things I think that contribute to it are introducing two writing systems, etc. It dawned on me that I never did the numbers table in Urdu, but unless anyone complains, this is perhaps for the best now, considering space. As much as I like the en face format of Hindi-Urdu, perhaps splitting up will have to be debated again in the future. As will what to keep and what to prune. I also need to figure out how to write a proper grammer section without going overboard, and choose only the essentials. Khirad 20:25, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)
Separating Hindi and Devanagari?
The lengthy section on the intricacies of Devanagari is rather intimidating — and it could also be reused for other languages using the same script, eg. Nepali, Marathi etc. Would it make any sense to limit this to speaking Hindi, and shunt out the script stuff into a separate "Learning Devanagari script" article?
Note that the basic vowel/consonant stuff and the Devanagari phrases should of course stay in the phrasebook, because they're useful to point at even if you can't read the language. Jpatokal 08:33, 12 November 2006 (EST)
Copied from the India article
I just cleaned out a whole lot of stuff from India's "Talk" section as it was TMI and was breaking the flow. It may or may not be useful here. — Ravikiran 14:24, 20 November 2006 (EST) Hindi is spoken in many dialects . Dialects of Hindi Hindi has more than ten variations. Hindi spoken in Rajasthan is different from Hindi spoken in Bihar or Hindi of Himachal Pradesh. Sometimes the different variations of a language are considered as separate language with their own literature.
One of the most important dialects is Khariboli (also Khadiboli or Khari dialect), which is spoken in Western and Eastern Uttar Pradesh. Khariboli is the variation of Urdu/Hindi language that is used by the government and taught in schools. It was a rural language in its early days, but after 18th century, people started using it as the literary form of Urdu as its vocabulary contains a large amount of Persian and Arabic words. Almost all the significant modern Hindi literature has been produced in Khariboli.
Yet another important dialect is the Bihari Hindi spoken by the people of Bihar ,Jharkhand and some parts of Eastern UP like Balia.Lately it has become popular owing to the Politicians and Hindi movies.
Awadhi - Spoken predominantly in rural centers Central and parts of Eastern Uttar Pradesh. Urban centers speak Khadi Boli. Lucknow, Kanpur, Rae Bareli, Faizabad, Allahabad. However, as we move east of Lucknow, we begin to get a little mix of Bhojpuri as well both in words and accent. Tulsidas' Shri Raamcharit Manas is written in Awadhi. The dialect in Lagaan, Nadiya Ke Paar and songs in Omkara is are Awadhi.
A third important dialect is Brajbhasa, spoken in the region of Braj. Brajbhasa was the language of choice of the Bhakti movement, or the neo-Vaishnavite religions, the central deity of which was Krishna. Therefore, most of the literature in this language pertains to Krishna composed in medieval times.
Among the other variations of Hindi, we can inculde Kanauji, Bundeli, Bagheli, Chhattisgarhi (Lahariya or Khalwahi), Hariyanvi (Bangaru or Jatu), Bhaya, Chamari and Ghera Gowli.